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LindowsOS.com Email Lists Collected For MS Suit

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the oh-my dept.

Privacy 713

Over at the LindowsOS website is a message from company chief Michael Robertson, who advises readers that, in the course of discovery for the ongoing lawsuit instigated by Microsoft against Lindows.com, the company was "compelled to disclose your email address to Microsoft." The email addresses aren't just those who have submitted product names with a connection to "Windows", but rather "everyone who had submitted their address asking to be signed up for the Lindows.com mailing list since we turned on the website," according to email from Robertson. He adds: "The information which Microsoft received in the list was name, email address and physical address. It was not just people that posted to our forum, but basically every address for every person that we had collected." (Note: If you'd like to contribute to the list of "Windows" products, it would be helpful to include more than just a product name photocopy -- e.g. a company name, URL, or photocopied manual.).Update by HeUnique: And here is Michael Robertson comment.

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what's privacy for, anyway? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2839937)

not for me, it seems! f1rst.

Big Brother.... (1)

wo1verin3 (473094) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839940)

This isn't fair.

I didn't submit my e-mail address to microsoft, I guess the lindows people didn't really have a choice however, as much as I'd like to blame them :(

Now we'll be subjected to extra windows spam from MS.

Re:Big Brother.... (0, Flamebait)

timbong (311303) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839987)

Didn't have a choice? I thought the point of lindows was to "bring choice to your computer". I guess they aren't living up to their own slogan

Re:Big Brother.... (2, Insightful)

funkhauser (537592) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840092)

There's a difference between trying to innovate the commercial OS market and being slapped with a big, juicy subpoena. Don't blame the Lindows people here.

you wish (2, Troll)

Erris (531066) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839990)

Now we'll be subjected to extra windows spam from MS.

Give the usual MicroSquish business ethics, you will be signed up for "product information and news" for everything from X-10 to porn. Good luck, your mail box will soon look like my AOL account. I wonder if M$ have anything to do with that as well, there can'nt be that many dumb asses who buy a penis enarger sales kit. It would not be beyond the company that pays to have dead people write congressmen. Such is the stuff of software ownership and "aggesive" marketing.

As an internal email from M$ once told, there were two conditions for a new NT product that interfaced with Unix, that it make money for M$ and that it kill Unix. Needless to say, that project useful project did not happen.

Re:you wish (0, Flamebait)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840084)

The sole fact that you use AOL should make it illegal for you to use stupid, asinine names like MicroSquish and M$... You're probably one of those people that boots into Linux to use pico to edit text files, but boots back to Win98 so "I can use AOL!!" Yeah this may be flamebait, but the parent post is bullshit. Pure bullshit.

fp for lwz (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2839942)

#linuxwarez forever, heh!

Remember everyone... (1, Troll)

neema (170845) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839944)

In some states, it is LEGAL to shoot anyone who steps on your property uninvited.

Re:Remember everyone... (1, Offtopic)

Wheaty18 (465429) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839956)

Yeah, but how do you plan to penetrate their borg-ish forcefields?

You will be assimilated.

Re:Remember everyone... (1)

funkhauser (537592) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840067)

Yeah, those sheilds constantly remodulate themselves. I don't think any amount of buckshot will be able to get through.

Perhaps a well-placed, penguin-shaped missile would work?

Re:Remember everyone... (1, Offtopic)

linzeal (197905) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840119)

Thats easy you broadcast on uPNP a device that circumvents [windowsxp.nu] the windows xp activation.

The popcorn you are eating ... (-1, Troll)

Mighty-Troll (549627) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840012)

... has been pissed in. Film at 11.

Re:Remember everyone... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840082)

no a bullet with vbs script should have no problem penetrating, Aparently they have no know defense. I suggest A title relating to anna kornikova to assure success.

Re:Remember everyone... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840155)

that's a nice theory. Perhaps you should test it out sometime?

"excessive use of deadly force" mean anything to you?

How about, "You sure got a purty mouth." Because that's what you'll be hearing when you're thrown in jail.

Another Grass Roots Campaign (5, Funny)

sabinm (447146) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839947)

Next thing you know Joe_potential_Lindows_User
will be "sending" a letter to congress praising M$'s "Right to Innovate", along with his dead cat, fish, and web server.

Re:Another Grass Roots Campaign (2)

rodgerd (402) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839986)

More likely BSA harrasment.

Re:Another Grass Roots Campaign (2)

cgleba (521624) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840032)

More likely,

"In news today, FBI agents raided the homes of hundreds of people searching for pirated software where incidentally the primary focus seems to be Microsoft products."

A press-relations person at Microsoft commented on the raids and the tips that the FBI had stating, "We submitted a conclusive list to the FBI of people's names, e-mail and mailing adresses who gave positive aknowledgement that they didn't want to pay for Microsoft products."

Re:Another Grass Roots Campaign (2)

cgleba (521624) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840052)

rogerd was too quick for me

even more reason.. (1)

Squarewav (241189) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839950)

to switch to linux,,
I know I just did

too bad (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840036)

You can't run 99.9% of the new games coming out and use the latest hardware without waiting for someone to reverse engineer some drivers. The drivers will be shitty, too.

Re:too bad (0, Offtopic)

glwtta (532858) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840156)

I for one don't play 99.9% of the new games coming out because they are shit; I stopped playing games a few years earlier then I switched to Linux - can I then keep using it?

Re:even more reason.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840125)

How many times can you folks switch to linux before you get tired of switching? What is this... 3rd time you've switched so far this year?

Re:even more reason.. (1)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840150)

He must have meant 'switched distrobutions'... cause there's so damn many, each specialized in their own way! It's like Lay's potato chips... you can't have just one!

LIcense check! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2839954)

Watch out if MS comes knocking on your door to check you have a license to run your MS software.

spam! (0, Redundant)

Arctic Fox (105204) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839962)

be prepared to get Microsoft oriented spam!!!

NOTE FOR WA RESIDENTS (3, Interesting)

jarodss (243400) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839964)

NOTE FOR WA RESIDENTS: Requests for information are not offered to residents of the state of Washington.

Why is that?

Re:NOTE FOR WA RESIDENTS (2, Insightful)

Nykkel (264932) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840094)

Perhaps the things they would like to do with your information would be in direct conflict with the state of Washington's anti-spam law? That could cost them $500 per violation, and it's hard to plead ignorance of the law when their main campus is in Washington.

Re:NOTE FOR WA RESIDENTS (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840102)

because the trial court is likely in WA. IANAL but this is just discovery phase, the material is supposed to be used in a trial. Probably as a proffer to prove one of the requirements of trademark infringement cases. M$ has to at some point in the case, prove that LindowsOS was actively marketed. Since the don't seem to have actually delivered anything and taken no money in return, this will be a major point of the trial. Pre-trial publication is not going to happen within the state. Most likely, the judge will allow a statistical summary of the email list and declare the rest to be confidential information not to be released.

Of course, if this list does get beyond the M$ laywers computer, or placed into publice record by the judge, it could get real bad for anyone who put truthful info on the lists.

Either way, it might be a good time to start being an Anonymous Coward.

Using every legal, market, technology and political process for its own ends is the definition of M$ current business practices.

Re:NOTE FOR WA RESIDENTS (0)

yohaas (228469) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840139)

Using every legal, market, technology and political process for its own ends is the definition of M$ current business practices.

And this is a bad thing?

I'm missing something... (4, Interesting)

Xawen (514418) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839966)

What possible use could that email list be in a trademark case? Additionally, how can MS force them to hand over the addresses and even some of the messages when the Lindows privacy promise explicitly said they would do no such thing? (Yes I am aware the promise wasn't written for this purpose, just seems like it should have an effect.)

You see... (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840005)

You see there are these people we call judges, and they can order you to do certain things...If you don't do these things you can be found guilty of contempt of court and be sent to jail. Privacy policy or not.

Re:You see... (1)

Xawen (514418) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840028)

Yes, but in order for these magical judges you speak of to order you to do something, it has to have a legal purpose... Especially when it involves divulging private information about 3rd parties. They're a little touchy about that these days.

Re:I'm missing something... (5, Informative)

AntiNorm (155641) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840010)

Additionally, how can MS force them to hand over the addresses and even some of the messages when the Lindows privacy promise explicitly said they would do no such thing?

Legal subpoenas trump privacy agreements. Damn, Microsoft is making an ass of itself here.

Hmmm..... (1)

the_radix (454343) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839967)

Does anyody else find it odd that the news brief doesn't say why they disclosed this information? Could it be something they did? Or am I just paranoid? Or am I stoned?



This "hunting down windows-named software" might not help, I'm afraid. Microsoft's lawyers are going to say that since Lindows is an OS, it can be confusing. Which it is, considering how many variations people have made on Windoze, blows, etc.

Re:Hmmm..... (1)

wo1verin3 (473094) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840035)

They did say, it was during the discovery process.

They have to show what evidence/information they have to the opposing side.

Re:Hmmm..... (3, Informative)

whovian (107062) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840120)

Couple of thoughts here.

(1) Even if Lindows.com, Inc., slipped somewhere, I don't see it
as significantly hindering open software in general. To me it seems
Microsoft is partly demonstrating its sour grapes via legal muscle.
It would be interesting if that notion could be lobbied to the public, but
that doesn't make us any better (i.e., it leads
to the Dark Side I guess).

(2) [cut to courtroom scene. Whovian on stand.]
"Your Honor, it says LindowsOS(TM) will have the ability to run both
Windows(R) and Linux(R) software. On the other hand, Microsoft(R)
Windows(R) runs just "Windows" software. So, your Honor, there is no
confusion in my mind that these are two distinct products."
I wonder if this list of contact informations could be turned into
some kind of affidavit attesting to the users NOT being confused
between the two OSes.

shiznisss (1, Insightful)

nato-br0t (550669) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839969)

ok, now they have my name. W O W they had it before

Re:shiznisss (-1, Troll)

nato-br0t (550669) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839982)

yeeeeeaaaaaaa........
riiiiigggggghhhhhhttttt

Hmmm.... (1)

PoiBoy (525770) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839971)

I wonder if they'll spot all the fake hotmail email addresses we use. johndoe@hotmail.com, billygates@hotmail.com, msnsucks@hotmail.com.

MS employee: "Um, Sir Gates, we have the list of email addresses of Lindows users...They all have dubious hotmail accounts."

Re:Hmmm.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840026)

One generally doesn't expressly sign up for a mailing list using a fake mailing address, you know?

Ashcroft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2839972)

They're just taking a que from Ashcroft - making lists of enemies is popular nowadays.
Un-Microsoft is Un-American!

What are M$ going to do with them? (1)

MrBlack (104657) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839974)

I guess the big question is "Now what are Microsoft going to do with them?" - send the software piracy gestapo around to your house? or just bombard you with spam about why windows has a lower overall TCO and crap like that? Perhaps M$ could be sued under spam laws if they send unsollicited e-mail to you? Perhaps I'm just a crackpot? who knows.

Re:What are M$ going to do with them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840058)

A)Send letters to MCSEs on the list explaining that their certification is a revokeable priviledge.

B)Spam everyone with "Give XP a spin" spam.

C)Forward the entire list to the BSA "Investigation" going on in an are near you.

D)All of the above.

It was probably Michael Robertson's idea... (3, Interesting)

generica1 (193760) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839980)

This is the guy who completely sold out MP3.com and made it a hellhole of commercialism and a place where now, any artist who ever posted their mp3s on the site, has no way at all to remove them from their database. They have officially become 'property' of MP3.com, which is basically a subsidiary of Universal at this point.

In any case, he has a pretty bad track record when it comes to lawsuits. Expect to start getting fabulous offers (that you can't afford to refuse!) sent to your physical mailing address 'compelling' you to upgrade to future new subscription-based versions of Lindows XP. Ha.

Disgusting (1)

SiMac (409541) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839984)

Disgusting. Simply disgusting.

This is almost as bad as when MS rewarded people who reported PCs sold without OSes with games. But then again, watch MS offer these people Windows XP ("the most reliable Windows ever") at a 50% discount...

Is it too late to have my address submitted? :) (1)

josquint (193951) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839991)

I could use my hotmail accout i check every 2 months and just collects spam :)

and if it gets more spam from microsoft.com sellin XP i'll know y!

Seriously though... is this really neccesary? can i get all the email addresses of people subscribing to a white sepremacy, or other such hate group when involved in a lawsuit(civil, not necessarily criminal case)...

... that, and does EVERYONE subscribing to the list oppose microsoft? I'll bet there's a few ms execs on the list :)

... do they just wanna find out who hate them? watchout slashdot!!! they'll make you turn over all our user account info soon!!!!

Re:Is it too late to have my address submitted? :) (4, Funny)

glwtta (532858) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840053)

they'll make you turn over all our user account info soon

Good! It's about time MS learned about my awesome Karma - that'll teach 'em some respect!

Lindows E Mail Lists (1)

Y B MCSE (469234) | more than 12 years ago | (#2839994)


For a company that wanted to "Settle this outside of the courts" that sure is strange behavior. I would think in light of recent events Billie G would like to avoid the courtrooms. But then again I didn't just add the DOJ to my legal department either.

quite sick... (1)

mix_master_mike (540678) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840000)

quite sick indeed... why excactly were they forced to turn over these documents?

Scare Tactics (1)

global_diffusion (540737) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840009)

I'll hazard a guess and say that they're just doing this to scare people into not participating in the product-name-hunt that's going on. Furthermore, I'm sure that it's working. But think for a second: What harm could you possibly come to if you continue helping?

Lindows, then you... (5, Interesting)

toupsie (88295) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840013)

If all it takes for a company to sue to obtain another company's customer data, then I can imagine other competitors in other markets doing the same to crush the competition. Make up a plausible but legally flimsy claim and you too can access your competition's customer base! If your sales men can't get them to switch, find a way to sue them for not buying.

Your privacy is no longer protected by a web site statement. Beware!

I love Hermione! (-1, Troll)

Emma Watson Fan (550951) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840015)

She is da bomb! [emma-watson.org]

email from Microsoft Branding Dept. (2, Funny)

LuxFX (220822) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840016)

Dear Lindows.com Friend,

As a Lindows.com Friend, we at Microsoft hold you responsible for encroaching on the Microsoft brand with the naming of the Lindows product. Microsoft is shocked and appalled at the countless number of people that each made the executive level decision of approving this product name, and plan on holding every one of you responsible. In addition, you will be added to all of the Microsoft, MSN, and MSDN mailing lists to further convince you of the uniqueness of the Microsoft brand. We also might forward all of the blocked SPAM at Hotmail.com to you, since we now have your email addresses.

Sincerely,
*******, Head of Corporate Branding

Before anyone goes out on a limb... (5, Informative)

Pollux (102520) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840020)

...and starts more MS bashing, refresh yourself on the actual post first. Granted, the article brief makes you inclined to think that this post is another chance to bash Microsoft, but something good has come out of it nevertheless.

The "Michael's Minutes" article which is linked to has a primairy purpose of NOT bashing Microsoft or jumping to conclusions about the "seizing" of the emails, but instead ask everyone out there in the Lindows.com community to help them in their case. They've developed a strategy to aid their case by trying to find AS MANY products out there on the market that have some kind of "Windows"-derrived name. Here's the actual important text:

Here's how you can help. We are composing a list of the many hundreds of products named "Windows Something" or "Something Windows" or even variations on the word windows, which are not from Microsoft. We know there are many, many products that fit this characterization and we could use your assistance to help us create this list. We are looking for hardware products, software products, products for any operating system and even operating systems themselves.

You can help us generate this list at www.lindows.com/list [lindows.com] in three different ways:

1. By submitting titles which can be added to our
list by filling out this simple form www.lindows.com/listform [lindows.com]

2. Send in printed materials which use the term "window(s)" generically such as software boxes or complete manuals to our offices, the older the better:

Lindows.com, Inc.
Attn: Legal Info
4350 La Jolla Village Drive Suite 450
San Diego, CA 92122


I say go for it. The goal is to catch Microsoft's real motivation for pursuing this lawsuit against Lindows: targeting competition rather than enforcing their trademark. So, rather than bash Microsoft here, take some time and actually help out the fight against them!

Re:Before anyone goes out on a limb... (5, Insightful)

Soko (17987) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840041)

I'm not sure, but isn't X-Windows [x.org] trademarked?

Big precedent there. Maybe Lindows should "compel" the kettle to see whom it's calling black...

Soko

Re:Before anyone goes out on a limb... (3, Informative)

linzeal (197905) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840101)

Wasn't the first usage of "windows" applying to computers the xerox alto and xerox star [tripod.com] . For more info on the various gui "windows" enviroments and their history check here [mackido.com] .

X Window System (5, Insightful)

coyote-san (38515) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840141)

Strictly speaking, it's "X Window System" or something like that, and it definitely predates Microsoft Windows by many years.

But you forget about the special place for Microsoft under the law. It can use "Window" without infringing on "X Window System," it can even use "X" (for X-box) without infringing on "X Window System" or causing the slightest amount of confusion about what "X programming" is.

Meanwhile, it's nothing but piracy if any other company uses "Micro-", "-soft" or more than three consecutive letters out of "Windows."

We might think this shows the emotional maturity of a 2-year-old, but we're not billionaires.

Re:X Window System (2)

SlashChick (544252) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840149)

"...it definitely predates Microsoft Windows by many years."

No, it doesn't. Check my other post [slashdot.org] regarding this.

Why did they complain about this? (1, Redundant)

pinkpineapple (173261) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840025)

Knowing that my name and address (YES, I am one of them) can be used by M$ marketing droids to fill up my snail mailbox and email one with Windows ads just pisses me off BIG TIME! Why did Lindows complies with this request? This is breaking the privacy policies. I hate this. Can't they do anything against the Beast? Don't tell me that MS had the right to do that. I can't believe it.

PPA, the girl next door.

Truth is... (4, Insightful)

cliffy2000 (185461) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840034)

No matter how reviled M$ is... the term Lindows DOES infringe on the name Windows...
Unless there's prior permission given by the company, it's illegal...
I mean, after all, if a company came along calling itself Lisney, and had a character named Lickey Louse, there would definitely be concern. Perhaps we must think in a broader, more even-handed perspective in order to fully grasp the basic facts of the case.

Re:Truth is... (0)

AntiNorm (155641) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840072)

No matter how reviled M$ is... the term Lindows DOES infringe on the name Windows...

Bullshit. Does Microsoft own trademarks to all words in the English language that end in "-dows"? Didn't think so.

Bullfeathers! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840085)

Yeah, and MS created Windows out of the blue.

It's not like no one ever heard of X-Windows.

It's not like anyone ever looked out of a hole in a fucking wall that had glass in it, either.

Re:Truth is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840096)

You think anybody would buy anything from company that had a character named Lickey Louse? I can just see it. A little lice that goes around and licks people. Nice theme park!

Re:Truth is... (1)

derF024 (36585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840103)

umm, not really. partially because of the fact that the x windows consortium was producing a product called Windows far before microsoft was, microsoft's trademark only covers the full name of the product, "Microsoft Windows".

Re:Truth is... (5, Funny)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840127)

"I mean, after all, if a company came along calling itself Lisney, and had a character named Lickey Louse, there would definitely be concern."

You know, there's something about a parasite that licks people that I think just might be bad for business...

Re:Truth is... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840133)

"Lisney Associates" [landscape-...ecture.com]

Lisney Associates is an architecture firm specializing in landscape planning and commercial developments, combining 25 years experience in the profession with the latest technology. Throughout Europe.

This is some funny shit (2, Flamebait)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840037)

How far will these creeps go? And I quote:

"Here's how you can help. We are composing a list of the many hundreds of products named "Windows Something" or "Something Windows" or even variations on the word windows, which are not from Microsoft. We know there are many, many products that fit this characterization and we could use your assistance to help us create this list. We are looking for hardware products, software products, products for any operating system and even operating systems themselves"

Hardware, well only thing I can think of is that pane of glass in my wall... umm, unless he's talking about boxes of hardware that say "Designed for Microsoft Windows."

Software. Wow. Hmm... how about anything named "XXXXX for Windows".

My favorite part is the "even operating systems themselves." That's funny. Cause the only OS that I know of that has 'Windows' in its name is...well... Windows!

This guy hasn't a leg to stand on. I think he likes getting himself into trouble and then making up bullshit excuses for why his interpretation of the law is right. I'm certainly not for the RIAA (H.R. can lick my nards), but it's kind of like him explaining why the MP3s on my.mp3.com were..uh.. 'legal.' By his interpretation anyway.

Face it, this guy knows he did wrong. Just think what would have happened if Microsoft named their Internet browser Metscape Mavigator.... But it begins with M (for Microsoft)! It's different!

Oh, and for the curious, here is their privacy policy:

"Contact Information: Some areas of the Site request or require contact and other information. During the registration process, we collect information such as your name, mailing address, and e-mail address. Your contact information may be used to get in touch with you when necessary with respect to transactions conducted through the Site or for other internal purposes. We do not share your contact information with any third party without your consent, except to a court or governmental agency if permitted by law, as authorized by a court of competent jurisdiction or to the limited extent described below under "Certain Third Party Transactions". "

Looks like that just flew out the door... er, window.

Re:This is some funny shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840128)

[cscx@yourmomshouse ~]% cat /dev/bollocks
What is that cat doing to your bollocks? Is that legal?

Subject: Hi there! (1, Funny)

Dark_Cobra87 (413519) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840042)

To:
Subject: Hi there!

Dear Dark Cobra,

Hello there! This is an automated e-mail from Bill Gates. Well, actually his secretary, but you get the picture.

We were recently informed of your interest in LindowsOS. Unfortunantly, we cannot allow them to illegally use our stuff or whatever. We do, however, offer you an alternative.

Windows XP! It's fun, easy, and only crashes once in a while! Although we currently offer no support for "Linus" programs, we do include minesweeper and solitaire.

Oh, and a little reminder! We ask of your help and support in our court battles. Please write to your nearest congressman and fight for our right to continue to own your PC.

Sincerly ( Love, ??? I'm new at this!)
Amand--
er, Bill Gates

Serious Thoughts.... (1)

Y B MCSE (469234) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840044)


If MS strongarmed Lindows into giving them this info will the courts not want information as well:

*What value to the case does this have?
*Why do you need these names?

Would it also not be contemptuous of MS to then use these names for targeted advertising (I am asking I don't know)

Furthermore we who are on the list are DETRIMENTAL to MS claims of trademark dilution (ie we didn't accidentally get ANY kind of Linux)

I can see it in court
"Can you Joe Slacker tell the difference between Windows and Lindows"

"Yes your' honor I most definitely can"

"Proceed"

"I think MS even has a patent on that blue screen so that HAS to be Windows"

X-Windows? (1, Redundant)

Virtex (2914) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840045)

Does anyone know if the name X Windows predates Microsoft Windows?

By about a decade or so (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840093)

IIRC

Re:X-Windows? (4, Informative)

glwtta (532858) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840100)

Well, Windows was first released in 1985 and the Athena Project was started in MIT in 1984 - I am not sure about the actual "X Window System" name.

BTW, "X Windows" is not the proper name, just something people call X because it sounds like MS Windows ;)

Re:X-Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840107)

nope, windows is the first and ONLY! All others shall die! :-)

Re:X-Windows? (1)

global_diffusion (540737) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840114)

Probably. It was made in the 1980s. I'm pretty sure the X Windows Consortium came together in 1989, so I'd say that it had been around for at least 3 years prior to that (to give it the minimum time necessary to spread).

Re:X-Windows? (1)

global_diffusion (540737) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840122)

Make that the X Window Consortium.

Re:X-Windows? (2)

sam@caveman.org (13833) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840123)

the website www.x.org says: "Since its first commercial release in 1986, the X Window System has..."

so i would guess 1986 for X-Windows?

-sam

Nope... (Re: X Windows) (3, Troll)

SlashChick (544252) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840134)

Actually, it's not X Windows, but the X Window System [x.org] . And actually, Microsoft Windows predates it -- Windows was released in 1983 [about.com] , and the X Window System's first commercial release was in 1986 [x.org] .

I'd guess that most product names that could help Lindows have already been submitted. Really, the name "Lindows" is pretty much doomed at this point.

Re:X-Windows? (2)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840153)

Technically, it's the "X Window System", although, if ignorami insisted on calling it "X Windows" from the beginning, this may be just a minor quibble X.org claims that the protocol was released publicly in 1986, one year after MS Windows 1.0.

A brief, naive search of the uspto database indicates that microsoft filed for trademark status on August 28, 1991 (Trademark S/N 74198891)

Odd thing to achieve in a discovery proceeding... (1)

davecb (6526) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840047)

One normally doesn't ask for a compeditor's customer list in an examination for discovery, and if one does, one expects it to be given to the court under seal, not handed over to a compeditor...

Re:Odd thing to achieve in a discovery proceeding. (1)

glwtta (532858) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840069)

One also expects a company that has been found guilty (of, let's say a monopoly, for agument's sake) to be punished in some way... go figure.

(yeah, yeah - flamebait - I know)

Anyone noticed... (1)

JPRelph (519032) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840048)

Software companies don't have legal departments any more. Its just law companies that have a side business in software. Its something that you just don't see to such an obscene level in any other industry.

Microsoft: Who do we want to sue today?

Well (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840051)

I am not trolling here.

If the government fucks with Microsoft, how can Lindows complain that Microsoft is fucking with them?

Microsoft will take out however they fucking well choose. That's why they're the greatest company in the world.

Now that last paragraph, that was a troll. Thank you.

----
I Am The Rotating Kimono!!!

Is this really something to worry about? (1)

DreamMaster (175517) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840061)

After having read the notice, I find myself wondering whether this is really something to worry about. The notice itself is very vague.. only stating that they were forced to give the list to Microsoft, and that Microsoft has promised not to abuse it.

With so few facts, it seems kind of hard to determine whether this is serious or not. Whilst Microsoft are notorious for underhanded tactics, I seriously doubt that they'd use the list of emails to start sending out Windows SPAM or, as someone suggested, sending out their "gestapo-squads" to raid people's premises.

Without more facts there seems to be very little that can be commented on, beyond deploring both Microsoft for demanding it, and Lindows for giving it to them.

The real problem... (4, Interesting)

SlashChick (544252) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840076)

...is that Microsoft has a very high chance of winning this case.

For example, take a look at the list of other product names [lindows.com] that have "Windows" or something similar in them. All of these products run on Windows. They aren't a competitor to Microsoft's core operating system business; rather, they enhance that market by providing valuable third-party add-ons to Windows.

Lindows, on the other hand, is obviously capitalizing on the popularity of Windows. To make matters worse, Lindows has a real problem becuase the name is phonetically so similar to Microsoft's product. Try to say "Lindows" out loud in a sentence. In fact, try saying the following out loud to someone else and see what they think you said:

"Lindows is an operating system that runs on your personal computer."

In fact, this is the worst possible outcome for Microsoft, because they HAVE to sue to protect their trademark. Suing a) creates negative publicity for Microsoft by geeks who think Microsoft is just trying to lay the smack down on a smaller competitor; and b) creates a lot of publicity of something that may be a threat to Microsoft's core business.

I would hazard a guess that this lawsuit will generate more publicity and hype for the-soon-to-be-former-"Lindows" than the product would have on its own. Had it not been named so similarly to Windows, I doubt that many people outside of the geek community would have even paid attention to it. As it is, even though it costs $99 per user and can't run everything as well as the real Windows, it still puts egg on Microsoft's face.

It must really stink for Microsoft to have to give tons of free publicity to a direct competitor. I'd look for Microsoft to push for a quiet settlement and get the "Lindows" pill swallowed as quickly as possible.

Re:The real problem... (2)

glwtta (532858) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840146)

I tend to agree, except for one point - "window" is a common word, in fact, one used to describe what err.. windowing systems do.

I don't think anyone would say that a "GNU/Linux Operating System" should not be called such because MS's is the most popular "Operating System" on the desktop? So where's that line?

Not really trying to go one way or another, just you know, doing that devil's advocate thingy.

Uhm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840077)

Microsoft is about to try and take all our private info and hold it on their servers with Passport Dot Net. Is this their idea of privacy?

That just sucks (1)

xg0blin (547154) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840078)

Some of the things windows has done, bundling Internet Explorer with windows, those "supposed" anti-Linux e-mail's, stealing apple's ideas for an operating system, I can look at those and say, well, maybe that can be construed as Microsoft trying to be competitive. Not that I agree with any of those things. This on the other hand really crosses the line. What need has microsoft of our e-mail addresses, and furthermore why was Lindows so quick to give them up? I probably would have been quick on Lindows side, being that how can you confuse Lindows and WindowsXP, but they just threw there hands in the air and said, here take all these e-mail addresses and we'll change our name. Any other demands?

A Touch Lost - Read the Privacy Policy? (4, Redundant)

Ieshan (409693) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840079)

From Lindows.com
Lindows.com may disclose personal information to third parties we engage to provide services that involve data processing on our behalf. Also, if some or all of the assets of Lindows.com are sold to a third party, such third party will be entitled to use the personal information disclosed by users of this Web Site, but only in accordance with the terms of this Privacy Statement.

Now, someone explain. Does Microsoft help them with data processing? No. Have any assets of Lindows.com been sold to a third party? No. Therefore, they're in breach of their Privacy Policy, which is clearly stated here [lindows.com] .

They do cover themselves by saying this: "Lindows.com reserves the right to change this policy at any time by posting a new privacy policy at this location." However, there's been no change to their privacy policy. Somebody made a boo-boo, it seems, because no amount of forcing should compel Lindows.com to break their own privacy contract with their customer/supporter.

Actually, reading it again, there's one place where the website COULD share your information: "We do not share your contact information with any third party without your consent, except to a court or governmental agency."

Then again, the Microsoft branch of our government probably didn't authorize this anyhow. :)

Re:A Touch Lost - Read the Privacy Policy? (3, Informative)

alfredw (318652) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840132)

We do not share your contact information with any third party without your consent, except to a court or governmental agency.

That's it. Lindows was ordered by a court of law to surrender this information under the rules of discovery. This means that they give the information to the Court. The COURT then gives it to everyone involved in the suit. This path goes both ways - Lindows can subpoena documents from MS too.

Due process trumps corporate policy in all cases. This shouldn't be news to anyone. See, for example, the DoJ v. Microsoft, where we were cheering for the side of due process.

The purpose of discovery (1)

Raul654 (453029) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840099)

Isn't the purpose of the discovery phase to discover relavant information - or at the very least, the appearance of relavance? How does this info help microsoft prepare for the lawsuit? If it IS irrelavant, isn't there some procedure for challenging it?

lindows? (-1)

jeneag (441998) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840104)

as it sounds to me, it is named to confuse people with Windows. If I'll go ask my mother or grandpa, they'll sure tell me that it is something same.

release the source code (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840110)

release the source code

Join Now! (1)

James Foster (226728) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840113)

I notice that they still have a link to joining the mailing list? Is that stupid or is that stupid?

Anyone notice how the website doesn't say that the email addresses were given to Microsoft by order of the court? It seems they just gave them to Microsoft after being put under some pressure or something. I can't think of a single reason why people on a mailing list along with their personal details would be relevant in a lawsuit over trademark issues. It seems to me that there's something very dodgy going on here.

Motivation? (2, Interesting)

chas7926 (513140) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840116)

At first I wanted to immediately go to lindows.com and sign up so that Microsoft would see how many people were interested in an alternative to their product. However, after thinking about it for a minute, perhaps they are going to argue that all the people signed up at the lindows.com site actually wanted to sign up at windows.com. They could then claim lost revenue and "strengthen" their case.

Far-fetched you say? Didn't AOL win an injunction against GAIM for something similar?

Ever heard of X Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2840138)

Doesn't the X Window System" [x.org] , commonly refered to as "X Windows", predate Microsoft Windows 1.x by a few years a least?

Think outside the windows box (1)

iplayfast (166447) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840140)

Most of the products submitted are windows products, how about xwindows, wxwindows (too late I submitted those) There must be others that are some variation of windows that are not MS Windows software of some sort.

Email Lists, yes....Spam no. (2, Insightful)

Elwood Blues (127255) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840145)

Think about this. The second they use this information to communicate product related spam, either direct advertisements or Windows related propoganda, they violate the purpose of collecting the information.

Any self-respecting judge or attorney would not allow the subpoena of information in a trademark dispute case to be turned into undeserved financial gain. This doesn't make sense. If Microsoft uses the information improperly, obviously they will be reprimanded for it.

However, this doesn't mean efforts shouldn't be taken by Lindows counsel to make sure the lists are not established as part of the public record, in which case they would be free domain. Unfortunately, this is another issue altogether.

Chance for removal (1)

BigBir3d (454486) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840147)

Why didn't Lindows send out a email to all people on the mailing list saying that we had 24 hours to remove ourselves from the Lindows mailing list, otherwise it will be turned over to Microsoft.

That would have been nice, but unfortunately, I don't think it would have been very practical :-(

This Brings Back Memories... (5, Funny)

guttentag (313541) | more than 12 years ago | (#2840159)

of John Landis's Coming to America [imdb.com] :

They are McDonalds, we are McDowells. They have the Golden Arches, we have the Golden Arcs. They have two all beef patties special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions on a sesame seed bun. We also have two all beef patties special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions... but they're no seeds in OUR buns.

In this case, I'd love to see the defense attorney tell the judge:

They have Windows, we have Lindows. They have "feature-rich" products, we call them "not ready to ship" products. They have the ability to run Windows programs. We also have the ability to run Windows programs, but there is no need to choose between Windows and Linux with OUR operating system.
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