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CompactFlash / IDE Interface for Apple II

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the not-for-everyone dept.

Hardware 203

jutpm writes: "This page describes a project to create an IDE / CompactFlash Interface card for 8 bit Apple II series of computers. The card is ProDOS 8 compatible and supports up to 64 Meg (two ProDOS 32Meg drives). I am very impressed with the work this guys work. Definitely a case of old technology meeting new."

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203 comments

I hate first posts (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858483)

So I decided to wait!

Re:I hate first posts (-1, Flamebait)

Klerck (213193) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858503)

Fuck you AC

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g g
o / \ \ / \ o
a \ a
t `. : t
s` \ s
e \ / / \\\ -- \\ : e
x \ \/ --~~ ~-- \ x
* \ \-~ ~-\ *
g \ \ .--------.___\ g
o \ \// ((> \ o
a \ . C ) ((> / a
t /\ C )/ \ (> / t
s / /\ C) (> / \ s
e ( C__)\___/ // _/ / \ e
x \ \\// (/ x
* \ \) `---- --' *
g \ \ / / g
o / \ o
a / \ \ a
t / / \ t
s / / \/\/ s
e / e
x x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *

Re:I hate first posts (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858718)

The last few months I have been doing some research into the trolling phenomenon on slashdot.org. In order to do this as thoroughly as possible, I have written both normal and troll posts, 1st posts, etc., both logged in and anonymously, and I have found these rather shocking results:

More moderator points are being used to mod posts down than up. Furthermore, when modding a post up, every moderator seems to follow previous moderators in their choices, even when it's not a particularly interesting or clever post [slashdot.org]. There are a LOT more +5 posts than +3 or +4.
Logged in people are modded down faster than anonymous cowards. Presumably these Nazi Moderators think it's more important to burn a user's existing karma, to silence that individual for the future, than to use the moderation system for what it's meant for : identifying "good" and "bad" posts (Notice how nearly all oppressive governments in the past and present do the same thing : marking individuals as bad and untrustworthy because they have conflicting opinions, instead of engaging in a public discussion about these opinions)
Once you have a karma of -4 or -5, your posts have a score of -1 by default. When this is the case, no-one bothers to mod you down anymore. This means a logged in user can keep on trolling as much as he (or she) likes, without risking a ban to post on slashdot. When trolling as an anonymous user, every post starts at score 0, and you will be modded down to -1 ON EVERY POST. When you are modded down a certain number of times in 24 hour, you cannot post anymore from your current IP for a day or so. So, for successful trolling, ALWAYS log in.
A lot of the modded down posts are actually quite clever [slashdot.org], funny [slashdot.org], etc., and they are only modded down because they are offtopic. Now, on a news site like slashdot, where the number of different topics of discussion can be counted on 1 hand, I must say I quite like the distraction these posts offer. But no, when the topic is yet another minor version change of the Linux kernel [slashdot.org], they only expect ooohs and aaahs about this great feat of engineering. Look at the moderation done in this thread [slashdot.org] to see what I mean.
Digging deep into the history of slashdot, I found this poll [slashdot.org], which clearly indicates the vast majority does NOT want the moderation we have here today. 'nuff said.
Feel free to use this information to your advantage. I thank you for your time

That would be the best performing Apple ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858487)

Beats the freaky POS AIO they just made. Ick.

why? (-1, Troll)

miked50 (466948) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858488)

Is this worth it other than the geek factor?

oh yeah FP..

Re:why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858534)

If you read the article instead of being a fuckwhat first poster you'd know that answer to that, as it's explained right at the top.

Oh well. I guess it's no more idiotic than other posts you've done (Like _Support_ and _Do_you_have_a_clue_)

Re:why? (4, Interesting)

Yakko (4996) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858625)

Why? This is easy! I've dreamed of designing my own IDE/PCMCIA/CF board just for this purpose. I have a IIgs and a IIe. The motivation stems generally from the scarcity of mass storage solutions for the IIe -- the UniDisk 3.5 is VERY hard to get your hands on today, and I have yet to see the fabled "SuperDrive" card that lets you use a 1.44MB drive. In the IIgs arena, the Apple High-Speed (or any other) SCSI card is very hard to acquire without fierce competition on ebay.

Some outfits sell the Focus Drive, which purportedly works with a 2.5" IDE disk... But seeing as how CF has dropped in comparison to a hard drive, and it's smaller, and it generates no(t a lot of) heat, and doesn't make you waste loads of space on the IIe, it has appeal.

I see the guy uses the same emulation tools I do -- I ported ADT to ProDOS chiefly to get my 6502 mojo working again... and Apple II Oasis is the best IIe emulator out for win32.

I'll most likely throw my name into the hat for a board... hopefully this is US-based. All the neat AppleII boards seem to originate in Europe for some reason.

Old Apple Hacks (1)

_flan (156875) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858863)

This is excellent. I'm going to have to try building on myself. I have bins of old Apple ][ disks that I'm trying to save and I'm guessing that moving to a hard drive would be a good idea.

Back in the day (1994), I started making a remote filesystem for my Apple that would communicate with my Sparc via serial. Unfortunately, it was dog slow and I gave up.

BTW, if anyone really wants to start hacking on the Apple //e, I would recommend "Understanding the Apple //e" by Jim Sather. It is fabulous. It is out of print right now, but I managed to pick one up a couple of years ago by being resourceful. ;-)

Why? (2, Redundant)

damiam (409504) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858492)

Aside from the coolness factor, why would anyone want to use CompactFlash on an Apple II?

Never underestimate the power of a (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858502)

true mac geek [javahell.org.lu]

Re:Never underestimate the power of a (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858853)

Never underestimate the power of a (Score:-1, Troll)

You said it, brotha!



Propz to all ma dead sporkies!!!

Re:Why? (2, Insightful)

sacherjj (7595) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858508)

Seems like it would be easier to program the interface to the many Apple II emulators out there. Man, Apple II assembly seems so long ago. I guess it actually was so long ago...

Re:Why? (2)

dmarcov (461598) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858642)

Ok -- I'll just risk the off-topic mod-smack-down -- but Damn!

How can the parent post be modded down as redundant when it is the 2nd post made? That just makes no sense.

Re:Why? (1)

damiam (409504) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858699)

Probably because the first post asks the same question.

Re:Why? (0, Offtopic)

Mr_Matt (225037) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859073)

...and the first post to ask the question got modded out of existence. It's redundant to...a post that nobody can see. Gotta love it. :)

Talk about pinching pennies (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858496)

For god's sake, man! Get yourself a newer computer!

Re:Talk about pinching pennies (3, Funny)

Mr_Matt (225037) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859098)

In related news, NVidia announced today it's providing binary-only driver support for its line of GeForce video cards used in wooden abacuses. When asked about this, a company spokesperson replied "Well, we know there's virtually no market for putting a 3-D accelerated device driver for an analog computer without a display, but what the hell, it's a slow newsday on Slashdot, so why not get the geeks drooling?"

Finally! (5, Funny)

Drakula (222725) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858497)

The last piece I need for my Apple ][e mp3 jukebox!

j/k

Re:Finally! (2, Offtopic)

PorcelainLabrador (321065) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858685)

If we head down this road =) , would an Apple IIe have the horsepower to decode mp3's in realtime? I'm tending not to think so.
Has anyone tried this? =)

Re:Finally! (2, Funny)

Yakko (4996) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858748)

Quoting from Dilbert here in regards to the time required to decode an mp3:

I don't have an exact timeline, but it's about the same time the Sun becomes a cold dark chunk of coal the size of your forehead.
I think you'd at least be able to go grab a pizza before you hear anything. :o)

Re:Finally! (2, Informative)

jerrytcow (66962) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858779)

would an Apple IIe have the horsepower to decode mp3's in realtime

Even Macs with a 68K CPU aren't fast enough (all PPC Macs can though), so if your question is for real, then no, the 1.8 MHz MOS 6502 won't cut it.

Re:Finally! (2, Interesting)

Toraz Chryx (467835) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858842)

I think a 68060 would probably be just about fast enough...

'except no mac ever actually shipped with one of those :/

(Amiga's did though :)

Re:Finally! (2, Informative)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859078)

Amigas never shipped with an 060 either. Those were after market boards.

And to reply to the parent post, while an Apple IIe could never decode mp3's, I see no reason why someone couldn't design a real sound card for the thing, with enough co-processor power to do that also. It wouldn't be impossible, even to intercept the "bell" device in system memory, and play a nicer fm tone, giving it backwards compatibility.

Oh, and as for the questions regarding compact flash, he chose that undoubtedly, because CF is actually the same as IDE electrically. Only the mechanical interface is different. If you were to make a converter cable, windows or linux would even recognize it as a valid /dev/hdx device.

Re:Finally! (2, Interesting)

Yakko (4996) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859162)

It wouldn't be impossible, even to intercept the "bell" device in system memory, and play a nicer fm tone, giving it backwards compatibility.

Hrrmm... I'm now thinking of ways to do that.

1) Watch for accesses to $C030. The problem here is that any program accessing the speaker this way gets intercepted.
2) Alter 3 bytes starting at $FF3A to jump to your routine. The chief problem with this is you'd be having to alter ROM. Not impossible; just a little more difficult, depending on which Apple ][ you have.
3) Use the Language Card's version of the Monitor ROM at all times, and have its $FF3A patched. Big drawback here is you'll lose the nice bell the instant you want to use ProDOS. :o)

Thought-provoking, tho...

Re:Finally! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858870)

Wrong. There is a port of mpg123 for 68k mac. However, you need at least a 68040LC to use it.

Re:Finally! (2)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859155)

A standard one? Probably not.

But I imagine that if you had a chip fab available, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to apply modern manufacturing techniques to develop a single CPU package with multiple, multi-gigahertz 6502 processors.

Who said it had to be stock hardware? ;)

Timothy ... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858504)


Slow Down Cowboy.

Slashdot requires you to wait 20 seconds between posting stories.

the first time I saw this... (1)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858505)

I thought it read Compaqflash. I was like, "why the hell would anyone wanna use Compaq? They are mainly proprietary." *snort* Ah, time to make the donuts.

I love my Commodore 64! (4, Funny)

diwolf (537997) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858515)

When I was a lad, and my brother had a C64, and I bought an Apple //c, he laughed at me because my Apple only went 'beep, beep, beep' while his C64 played music, and had better graphics. Well, the jokes on him now! I can still use my Apple to play Asteroid--now with 64MB!! Geeze, I can load Appleworks into memory like 500 times, and still have room left over!

Boy, technology sure has come a LONG way!

Re:I love my Commodore 64! (1)

jimmcq (88033) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858578)

I can still use my Apple to play Asteroid--now with 64MB!! Geeze, I can load Appleworks into memory like 500 times, and still have room left over!

These are used as storage (ala hard-drives)... not memory (ala RAM).

Re:I love my Commodore 64! (2)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858730)

Time to build Virtual Memory into ProDOS. Ohh, and the drives are faster than the original RAM.

Re:I love my Commodore 64! (3, Informative)

mikolas (223480) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858667)

Have you ever checked out the IDE64 [volny.cz] project or the CMD product portfolio [cmdweb.de]? I'd love to have those for my C64, but I'll save the money for a G4 turboboard for my Amiga 3000. :-) Retro is cool!

Re:I love my Commodore 64! (1)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859094)

You'd have to settle for a g2 board for the 3k, it's limited in which accelerators it will accept. And if you haven't already, PLEASE open the thing and rip out the original battery. I just bought my 3000 a week ago, for $10, thinking I had such a great bargain. A 1/6th of the motherboard now has blue fuzz, and it will take me at least 40 hours of free time to repair it correctly. Damn you C=, for using cheap batteries (and murdering the coolest computer platform ever).

Huh? (1)

TheGreenLantern (537864) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858541)

IDE / CompactFlash Interface card for 8 bit Apple II series of computers

What, for when you absolutely, positively have to access a ton of information very, very slowly?

OK, I know, it's not the end result so much as it is the process. Still seems rather odd.

Re:Huh? (1)

Smoking (24594) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858584)


What, for when you absolutely, positively have to access a ton of information very, very slowly?

Yeah, you mean like when surfing the web?

Re:Huh? (1)

Yakko (4996) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858941)

What, for when you absolutely, positively have to access a ton of information very, very slowly?

Even if the data gets presented thru ProDOS and to the system at 50kB/sec, it's still a whopping improvement over what most Apple IIe users use now: the disk][ and ProDOS8's disk][ driver. This is like having a BUNCH of copies of /RAM all accessible as one volume, and just as fast as /RAM... and you don't have to worry about losing its contents when powering off or waiting for /RAM to load when you boot.

I wonder if it's SmartPort-compatible. . .

The real question on everyones' minds is.. (5, Funny)

sid_vicious (157798) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858544)

Can you punch a hole in the corner of the flash card and flip it over?

Bring on the nostalgia! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858726)

I've still got my Beagle Bros. disk nodge device. It's in the 5 1/4" disk box.

Re:Bring on the nostalgia! (3, Interesting)

Negadecimal (78403) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858787)

I miss Beagle Bros. I remember having their giant chart of peeks and pokes on my wall... man, that was useful.

Re:Bring on the nostalgia! (2)

sid_vicious (157798) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858862)

I've still got my Beagle Bros. disk nodge device. It's in the 5 1/4" disk box.

My pop was too cheap to actually *buy* the disk notching device.

Instead, whenever we'd run out of room on a disk, he'd take a kitchen knife and veeeery carefully cut the notch out by hand. I'd run interference so my mom wouldn't see what he was doing with her good kitchen knives.

Re:Bring on the nostalgia! (3, Informative)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858911)

Hand-operated paper punch. Just pull up the inside edges on each side of the ring, *punch* *punch*, and then one on the side where the WP notch was, *punch* and it's done.

Re:Bring on the nostalgia! (1)

sid_vicious (157798) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858923)

Hand-operated paper punch.

Hey, that's pretty clever - never saw anyone pull that trick!

:-)

I appreciate this on merit... (2, Troll)

mystery_bowler (472698) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858554)

...but usually when I see an article or bit of "old-meets-new" tech news, it has a real purpose. Like having a better way to get old heirchical (sp?) data off a legacy system mainframe. But this piece leads to the question of "Who needs to expand their Apple II?"

The Apple II was a desktop system, not a big mainframe. I have my doubts that many critical systems were built for the Apple II. I doubt even more that those critical systems, if they ever existed at all, weren't converted to some other system years ago.

Again, I don't want to take away from the sheer "geek-cool" factor of this. It's a neat little technological achievement. But, for the life of me, I can't think of a useful thing to accomplish with it.

Re:I appreciate this on merit... (2)

swb (14022) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858606)

I have my doubts that many critical systems were built for the Apple II.

Since the Apple II was an early personal computer and highly hackable, I knew of many that got pressed into service as data collection devices in labs and so on, not to mention as word processors or small databases where some analog solution would have been used otherwise since the cost of your critical systems would have been prohibitive.

Just because you didn't do anything useful with it doesn't mean others didn't.

Re:I appreciate this on merit... (2, Insightful)

gregbaker (22648) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858873)

I have my doubts that many critical systems were built for the Apple II.

I remember once talking to a computer dealer who was one of the last to sell and support Apple II hardware in Canada. He said he had a customer who came in about once a year and bought an Apple II system. He had some system (probable not "critical" in the purest sense, but important anyway) that ran on the Apple. It was cheaper and easier for him to have a good store of backup hardware than port the system up to something else.

You never know where old machines are running in forgotten corners of the world. I do agree that most of them would have been long since ported over to current hardware.

Re:I appreciate this on merit... (4, Interesting)

joe90 (48497) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858899)

The state owned TV company in NZ (TVNZ [nzoom.com]) up until very recently (Q4, 2001) used an Apple ][+ or Apple //e to power their Teletext system (a simplex news & info terminal built into most TV's sold in NZ). They've recently upgraded to a Sun Solaris host to provide the same functionality. The reason: they were no longer able to get spare parts and the system did start to become somewhat unreliable.

So while the system may not have been critical, it did provide a public service, produced revenue and worked moderately well - hardware faults excepted.

It wouldn't surprise me that much to hear that other organisations still use older technology to deliver a solution. After all, why fix it unless it's broken?

RTFM! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858929)

Jeez people, READ his page before you make comments on it. He explains exactly why he's doing this project.

what is the real life application to this? (4, Interesting)

sniepre (517796) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858555)

just think how much space 64mb is to an apple ][e.... no more flipping disks!

true the technology of the host machine is slightly outdated but hell.... you could probably fit one's entire software collection onto a single card, and not have to worry about changing a disk. program the flash and just pop it in, run whatever you like.....

my question is , is there an easy way to access the filesystem other than on an apple?

Re:what is the real life application to this? (2, Informative)

Yakko (4996) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858717)

my question is , is there an easy way to access the filesystem other than on an apple?

It's off the top of my head, but I believe that AppleII::ProDOS [cpan.org] can do this from Perl... it'd be a fun project for me some weekend, as my perl-fu needs work.

Not exactly easy, since you do have to write an app, but there're tools out there.

Re:what is the real life application to this? (1)

mrseigen (518390) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858855)

The Classic MacOS (dunno if OS X supports it) can read/write/format ProDOS filesystems natively. It can even burn ProDOS cd's.

Re:what is the real life application to this? (1)

edrugtrader (442064) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858924)

thanks for inventing the hard drive...

i actually had a 40MB HDD in my Apple ][
cost like $5000 for the whole system, and needless to say, i was the coolest kid on the block.

Apple II led me to the NES scene (2, Interesting)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858560)

Without the experience I had with 6502 assembly language on the Apple II trying to get a gambling game suite called "Place Your Bets" to respond to keypresses and draw graphics faster than Applesoft Molasses Basic [everything2.com], I never would have had the knowledge of the 6502 processor necessary for NES development [parodius.com].

That's funny... the last computer I owned that I didn't write a Tetris clone for was an Apple II.

spoke too soon (2)

nzhavok (254960) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858562)

If there was enough interest in this project I would love to make a small batch of boards to sell to those interested. But I would need at least 10 orders, and it may be hard to find 10 people interested in something like this

Looks like you spoke too soon pal, bet you'll wish you hadn't asked in a few hours ;-)

Re:spoke too soon (2)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858928)

> > If there was enough interest in this project I would love to make a small batch of boards to sell to those interested. But I would need at least 10 orders, and it may be hard to find 10 people interested in something like this
>
> Looks like you spoke too soon pal, bet you'll wish you hadn't asked in a few hours ;-)

In a few hours, it'll be "I need to sell at least 100 to pay my bandwidth bill!"

How about the other way around? (2)

d5w (513456) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858575)

I spent my first few glances at this wondering whether it was more likely that someone would put a compact flash slot into an Apple II or whether someone would put an Apple II (equivalent) into a compact flash device. I wonder if the latter wouldn't be marginally more useful: got an old Apple II program? Run it on your handheld.

Re:How about the other way around? (1)

Mean_Nishka (543399) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858627)

Ah! But you can! Go here [geocities.com] and you can download a fully functional Apple ][+ emulator for your PocketPC. It's great stuff and I believe the current version even works with the Targus stowaway keyboard.

Re:How about the other way around? (0)

clarkgoble (241742) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859005)

Damn but that brings back memories. I hadn't considered Crisis Mountain in years. Great game. And who can forget the first version of Castlewolfstenstein? (With yet an other sequel) Unfortunately he hasn't ported the original Wizardry or Utlima - the grand-daddies of all turn based RPGs.

Yee-haw! Let me know when the Commodore 64 version (2, Funny)

Myself (57572) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858581)

is finished. :)

LOAD "*",8

(retrieve munchies from fridge)

(complain that the 1541 drive is a slow P.O.S.)

(fall asleep)

READY.

Re:Yee-haw! Let me know when the Commodore 64 vers (1)

AnonymousDot (517935) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858651)

Yeah right:
LOAD "BRUCELEE",8,1
(plug back the second joystick with a faulty button)
ERROR READING DRIVE: TOO OLD CRAP, GET A LIFE!
READY.

Oh, you commited a wrong, sir... (1)

clump (60191) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858673)

Thats:
LOAD "*" ,8,1

,1. Don't forget the ,1!

Commodore 64 machines were fun. Some of my favorite games were on the Commodore. Games like Jumpman, Racing Destruction Set, Skyfox, and Mail Order Monsters.

Man, those honestly were some great days. I wouldn't be a computer professional without those Commodore games.

Re:Oh, you commited a wrong, sir... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858785)

Ah yes, good old Mail Order Monsters. I would love to see a newer verion of this game running on a QIII graphics and with smarter AI. The C64 was my first computer (like from when I was 7) and it definetly influenced me to join the tech world.

Just think og it, you could probably fit 200 C64 games on a single CF card... Now I can finally get rid of those decaying floppies...

Memories (2)

DunbarTheInept (764) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858768)

RUN

(cyan screen)

"Anana Visita. (hisss) Shtay a ile. Shtay foreveva.."

- "Wow dude. That sounded so real. You could actually hear words and stuff."

(step, step, step, step)

"Deshtroy chim my row-bots"

- "Woah cool."

"aaaahhhhhhhhahhhhahhahhhh..."

- "oops."

= "Dude, do that again - that was awesome."

- "No way man. I'm trying to win."

= "come on, that was great. Do it again."

- "Okay, just one"

"AAAAAhhhahhaaaaaahhhhahhhhhhahhhhhhhhhh..."

- "Okay, that was kinda cool."

"AAAAaaaahhhhahhahaaaaaaaahaaaaaa..."

= "Dude, this game is totally awesome. Say, are those dalek-things or whatever they are dangerous?"

"BBBzzzzzzttttztzztt."

- "Yep."

= "That was kinda cool. But fall off the screen again, that was great."

"Aaaaahaaaaaaaaaaahhhhahaahaaaa...."

...[A little later]....

- "What on earth is that?"
= "I think a bowling ball is chasing you."
- "Uhhhm - right."

Re:Memories (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858803)

Ah but the real question is did you ever finish the game? I could collect a bunch of pieces, but never managed to finish the Impossible Mission. Its still among my favorite games though. Destroy Him My Robots...

Re:Memories (1)

CommanderTaco (85921) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858907)

that game was so much fun to play... the funny thing is, i had no idea what do actually do with those pieces. i just liked running around the rooms and collecting items...
now i'm curious... what WERE you supposed to do with those pieces?

Re:Yee-haw! Let me know when the Commodore 64 vers (1)

AnalogBoy (51094) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858794)


LOAD "WINDOWS.BSC",8,1

(Start Associates)
(Finish Ph.D.)
(Retire)
(Swim the Sytx)
(Golf with Jesus)

READY

When I was a kid (Apple II Plus) (1)

Ralph Malph Alpha (551824) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858586)

We used to have a saying in my family about our Apple II Plus. It was something along the lines of "Apple? Or Japple?"

I would always say Japple just to piss my father off. He sure was crazy.

By the lack of activity on that link... (2, Funny)

BoBathan (166436) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858592)

I'd have to say that the Apple II doesn't make a very good web server.

IIgs compatible? (1)

Mean_Nishka (543399) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858599)

Anybody know if this is IIGS compatible? I'd like to get my old friend fired up again with some 'large' storage. SCSI cards are hard to come by for the Apples.

ATTN: Gordie (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858604)

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Saw this on www.woz.org (5, Interesting)

TotallyUseless (157895) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858607)

The guy that did this had written into the letters section and sent a link to Woz. Woz seemed impressed, understandably so. The funny thing is that this is considered mass storage for the ][e. For those that still put their old apples through the motions, this could save them a lot of disk swapping, as they could more than likely fit their entire software and data library onto a single 64meg card. neat!

Re:Saw this on www.woz.org (2)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858745)

> The funny thing is that this is considered mass storage for the ][e. For those that still put their old apples through the motions, this could save them a lot of disk swapping, as they could more than likely fit their entire software and data library onto a single 64meg card. neat!

I've been looking for a good use for an old 8M CF card.

Having 128 64K memory images of a ][+ (or 64 128K //e images with the bank-switching) would be great for retro-gaming. Get tired of playing one game, save the RAM image and continue tomorrow!

Having about 57 floppy images on an 8M card wouldn't hurt either, especially for Wizardry V, which came on something like 5 double-sided floppies.

Plus, for "hack value alone", this is one hell of a cool hack.

First post! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858609)

I dedicate this first post to They Might Be Giant's Particle Man

Sounds cool but I've been doing this for years (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858653)

Cool sounding project (can't access the link yet though). I like the Apple II and have played around with Apple II hardware but since the Apple is such a simple machine and Apple emulators do (almost) everything the original hardware can, why bother with the original hardware anymore?
I claim that I have been doing this because I use ApplePC with an emulated hard drive that resides as a file on my PC's IDE HDD.

Why in the world? (2)

Uttles (324447) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858669)

I can't imagine the motivation behind this... I loved my old Apple IIe but damn that was like 15 years ago!

Of course, you can never get too much Oregon Trail... I wonder how fast it runs with these mods!

This seems backward (2, Funny)

pagercam2 (533686) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858682)

The controller in the harddisk is probably 10 times faster than the 2MHz 6502, so isn't this really an apple II emulator for an IDE drive/CF card???

This is great news. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858703)

A bombshell was dropped on the already fragmented linux community today when it was revealed by slashdot.org and linuxnews.com that linux is unsuitable in the server environment. This is is a particularly brutal blow, because the server market was the only area the linux ever had any success. Sadly, this will be hereafter known as the day linux was diagnosed with its fatal disease, a disease that's ultimate cause is poor engineering and programming practices in the linux community.

Linux rode a wave of greed from the dot-bomb bubble to achieve its current height of popularity, now it will crash hard, like a big-wave surfer going over the falls. People are busily distancing themselves from linux. Linux supporters are looking like a bunch of incompetent fools now. Who would want to be associated with such a dismal failure as linux?

The slashdot take:

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/01/17/0240242.sh tm l

From linuxnews.com

http://www.linuxworld.com/site-stories/2002/0114 .k ernel.html

Avast mateys! (0, Offtopic)

The Pirate (551844) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858705)

Arg! I be The Pirate! Arrrrrr! Back in my day, we didn't be havin' none of this Apple, nor any of this Compact Flash bull ya'll be touting at this here ... dot, slash... whatever! Why back in my day, you were lucky to get a lime for dinner! And if i here just one limey joke, i'll cut yer tounge out and eat it, served up with a side of liver!

But, at any rate, arrrr, i suppose i could be seein' the fun of makin' yer apples more compact. I mean, more room for plunder and women! And, if there's more room for women, there can be more for raping, of said women. YARG!

Re:Avast mateys! (0, Offtopic)

Renraku (518261) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858947)

Arr! Shiver me timbers! We be looting and plundering on the high seas! We picked up a shipment of apples and in celebration got drunk and ate the apples! Ye olde mixture of rum and torn metal hurt, but its nothing us pirates can't take!

Sentence structure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858719)

"I am very impressed with the work this guys work."

What the hell kind of sentence is that anyway!?

Why not a simpler smart media or mmc interface ? (3, Interesting)

tempmpi (233132) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858743)

Compact Flash cards are controlled like a ide harddrive, wouldn't it be much easier to use a other flash media with a much simpler serial interface ? Like a smart media, multi media card or a memory stick ? (memory stick specs are now for free on www.memorystick.org)

I just picked up a IIc (2)

Kymermosst (33885) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858769)

for a couple of dollars so I could go through my old collection of stuff. I used to program assembly on the Apple II, and was writing a CP/M-like OS for the 6502, which promptly got scrapped when I got my '286 way back when.

I want to see what I was up to then, so I got the IIc.

Only problem is, some of the memory is bad... need to get some replacements... unfortunately, soldering them into the board isn't going to be fun at all.

against this (0)

greymond (539980) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858775)

not that im against improving on old technology but this seems rather useless considering the apple II's are more than obsolete

Lust for an Apple II (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858783)

When I was 14 back in 198whatsit I used to go round to Compshop and lust after their Apple IIs.

I had a zx80 then and an Apple was just like sex on a stick. It had sound and colour!

Can you still buy these things? Might get one for old times sake - but then maybe its best not to relive the past :->

ANd I thought my SS20 was some obsolete kruft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858784)

Holy shit! I have thrown away so many Mac Pluses and SEs over the years. And they are worlds faster than an Apple ][.

I'm running a 1993 Sparc 20, and I thought that gave me obsolesence points. This is wild.

Wil this Apple be able to compile and run gkrellm now?

Buckethead (-1)

Genghis Troll (158585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858788)

for president. GWB clearly wasted his formative years in the coop. Only Buckethead will give this country the nunchaku and shredder-style chicken pickin' it so sorely needs.

Apple ][ MP3 system (3, Informative)

dstone (191334) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858805)

I don't believe there's a flavour of Apple ][ that can decode MP3 streams real-time in software. However, an Apple ][ should be able to easily run a GUI (and now IDE filesystem), and just send the resulting raw MP3 bitstream to to an inexpensive outboard decoder chip. (Some buffering for constant data rate may also be required).

FWIW, if anyone wants to take the leap, the standard homebrew decoder chips used today seem to be one of these...
Micronas MAS3509F Compressed-Audio Decoder [micronas.com]
SGS Thompson STA013 MP3 Decoder [st.com]
The Micronas chip is newer and doesn't require an external DAC.

8-bit access to Compact Flash/IDE?!? (2)

strredwolf (532) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858882)

Wait... that's...

The Parachute for Palm III/Handeras, a PCMCIA controller over serial port. Hey, if they can port it to serial port (shouldn't be too hard), you'll have generic access to compact flash/IDE.

Someone pass the Basic Stamp II's...

SST Compact Flash in my Apple ][e = tiiiiight (1)

edrugtrader (442064) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858900)

i got tons of SST Compact Flash around (SuperFlash)

now i have a use!!

Apple users vs. Apple users (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2858920)

That's an obvious case of hacker-type Apple users vs. stupid Mac Apple users. People owning Macs are so stupid they cannot use 2 mouse buttons, let them play with their tupperwares and let big guys work!

What an amazing waste of effort (0, Offtopic)

CDWert (450988) | more than 12 years ago | (#2858922)

An absolutley amazing wast of effort,

A nice accomplisment, but man why no do something worhtwhile ?

Hell 3rd world countries have better than Apple 2's
Then again they cant affor flash ram so its moot.

Seriously Why not do SOMETHING USEFULL like , Oh take your pick, me writing this crappy slshdot article about it has to me more usefull, man I got sucked in again...............

This is nothing (1)

Astrorunner (316100) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859038)

I built a flatbed scanner port for my Timex-Sinclair over the weekend. I can scan in any post stamp ever made.

almost as useful as an MP3 player for a Newton (3, Interesting)

option8 (16509) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859040)

this sounds like a really good hack, by my own definition of Good Hack, which is "do something nobody else has done yet, that's really hard and at the same time, almost completely useless to most people"

up there in my book would have to be the MP3 player for Newton MessagePads [40hz.org] (which i installed, and it works really well. streaming MP3 on a newton? oh yeah...)

though, along with the ATA flash card driver [kallisys.com] for Newtons, it almost turns my MessagePad 2100 [newtontraveler.com] into my portable MP3 player. saves me $400 for an iPod (though i'm lacking about 4.9G of the storage...)

kudos to the hack, and massive props to apple][ users still out there who can take advantage of this and all the cheap storage of the new CF cards.

How about one for the Tandy 100? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2859060)

You know, that laptop that is still around after 18 years because it's tough as nails. I would be willing to port my software to it, if only it would run a real OS, and that's impossible without more storage. C'mon folks, let's rally around this!!!

Don't forget the 8GB of the IDE64 :) (5, Insightful)

mbpark (43131) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859091)

It's about time Apples caught up to the Commodore 64 ;).

IDE64 [volny.cz] has given them that ability for a while, since all you need is a CF to IDE adapter, and you can have up to two 8 GB harddrives on a c64, or a few CF cards, or a couple of IBM Microdrives :).

16GB on that machine is completely nuts. You could quite possibly store every c64 game ever made (which I estimate at over 30,000 .d64 images total) and still have room left over for the applications.

Of course, you can go for the 8GB HD and a CD-ROM :). Some of those screenshots are pretty nuts. I can't imagine loading the Windows 95 CD-ROM using LOAD"$",8

Meanwhile, Nate [kscable.com] has nearly hacked together an MP3 player for the c64 based on the MAS chip. That, and a quickcam, and a few other things. Look at the C= projects page. That's some wicked stuff.

Now that's a hacker's machine. Give them enough time and they even get a workalike UNIX with a GUI and IRC client [slashdot.org], as well as a 20Mhz CPU, 16MB RAM, and many other cool things. From what I hear, XGA video and PCI are next.

I always did like these hackers of older systems. I would enjoy seeing those optimization techniques applied to modern code and compilers, especially gcc :).

Mirror (5, Interesting)

seanadams.com (463190) | more than 12 years ago | (#2859130)

I've mirrored it at the URL below. Photos will be up as soon as they've finished downloading. :)

http://www.slimdevices.com/CFforAppleII [slimdevices.com]

I dunno if my server's going to hold up any better, but it's worth a shot. :)

Just in case, a couple snippets from the page:

ast Update: Jan 17, 2002 - 11:40am CST

Project Introduction:

This page describes a project to create an IDE / CompactFlash Interface card for 8 bit Apple II series of computers. The
card is ProDOS 8 compatible. I did this project over the span of several months. Although it took much longer than
expected, it was a fun project. This project is very much a case of old technology (the
Apple II computer) meets new (IDE / CompactFlash cards and Altera CPLDs).
My reasoning for this project is described in detail in the last section, but suffice it to say, I
wanted to be able to pull out my old Apple and use it from time to time to reminisce about the
early days of personal computers. I wanted a reliable way to store my Apple II programs and
data files for many years to come. Due to the Apple II's floppy drives long term reliability
prospects and my general laziness, I decided a mass storage device is what I needed.

If there was enough interest in this project I would love to make a small batch of boards to
sell to those interested. But I would need at least 10 orders, and it may be hard to find 10 people interested in something
like this. I can be reached at rich@dreher.net
Currently I have only built a prototype, which means no extensive testing has been done
yet.

The Apple II was an excellent example of an open system, with unheard-of-today
documentation like system schematics, firmware listings, and peripheral design tips. Indeed
the only thing that was totally hidden was the source for the BASIC interpreter - "AppleSoft"
written by giga-monopoly Microsoft. In the spirit of the Apple II this project is completely
open.

Project Definition:

A CompactFlash/IDE Interface for 8 bit Apple II family of computers
Support for up to 64 Meg, (two ProDOS 32Meg drives)
On board EPROM for the ProDOS 8 driver code
Allow booting ProDOS directly from the Interface card (for a floppy-less system)
Current version of driver code requires a 65C02. (IIe Enhanced or later)

Project Prototype Hardware:

My first prototype used no discreet 74HCTxxx series parts and all logic was in the CPLD, but due to several unrelated
problems with construction and the consumption of all PLD resources, I decided to build a second prototype with using
74hct373 parts, this time paying more careful attention to power distribution. I still believe it would be easy to eliminate
the discreet 74xxx series parts if you used a larger PLD, like the EPM70128S. Although it might not be very cost
effective.

Here is the schematic I developed AFTER completing my prototype. That means this schematic has not been tested. If
you decide to build this project, you might want to check with me for any changes first. Also if you find any mistakes
please let me know. Project Schematic: ORCAD Capture Format

If you just want a quick look at the schematic click here to view a 640k jpeg of the schematic. Modem users: sorry about
the size, but I wanted it to be clear and readable as possible.

Prototype Parts List:

1 - SanDisk CompactFlash 64Meg or 32Meg
1 - CompactFlash to IDE conversion board - Adtron SDDA-03 available from EMJ Embedded
1 - ISA bus prototype board (trimmed to fit into the apple bus) Jameco part #21531
1 - 44pin PLCC socket. Jameco part #71618
1 - 44pin PLCC wire-wrap socket. (http://smt-adapter.com/ - part #44PG-W or similar)
1 - Altera EPM7064SLC44-10F
1 - 27128 EPROM
2 - 74HCT373 transparent latch
2 - 74HCT245 bus transceiver
7 - 22ohm 1/8w resistors
5 - 0.1uf capacitors non-polarized (used for power supply bypass)
3 - 1.0uf capacitors non-polarized (used for power supply bypass)
10 - 30 pin wire wrap SIPP sockets. Jameco part #104053 (there were some leftover)
misc wire wrap tools and wire
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