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USA Busted Trying to Bug China's Presidential 767

chrisd posted more than 12 years ago | from the what-part-of-covert-didn't-you-get dept.

Upgrades 510

morcheeba writes "A new Boeing 767-300ER was refitted to become China's presidental aircraft. What goes into a plane like this? Besides the bedroom, sitting room, bath with a shower, there was a 48" TV, satellite communications, anti-missile defense systems and advanced avionics. And oh yeah, numerous high-tech listening devices. Wonder how those got in. Read the article at washingtonpost.com." CD: The question is, what was the bug in the headboard for?

cancel ×

510 comments

oh, i've waited for centuries (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867019)

to claim an fp...

Fuck you fuck fucks.

Congrats!! (-1)

Big_Ass_Spork (446856) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867040)

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g g
o / \ \ / \ o
a \ a
t `. : t
s` \ s
e \ / / \\\ -- \\ : e
x \ \/ --~~ ~-- \ x
* \ \-~ ~-\ *
g \ \ .--------.___\ g
o \ \// ((> \ o
a \ . C ) ((> / a
t /\ C )/ \ (> / t
s / /\ C) (> / \ s
e ( C__)\___/ // _/ / \ e
x \ \\// (/ x
* \ \) `---- --' *
g \ \ / / g
o / \ o
a / \ \ a
t / / \ t
s / / \/\/ s
e / e
x x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *

This was actually predicted... (-1, Troll)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867021)

All of this was foretold in the proficies of Nostrodamus [popmatters.com] .

In the immortal words of his final parable "Never count your blessings with haste / Even a prophet can catch a case".

We can all take solace in the knowledge, mentioned earlier in his works that "I'm a wild barbarian... Felonious / My description is doo rag pants sag down to my feet".

Read children, read and then reflect on what it meant to you. And then remember, remember where you were on 10:29, January 16th 2002. [slashdot.org]

Do not cry, but rejoice that change is coming, like I am right now over alt.binaries.erotica.redheads. Mr Thinly Sliced

Re:This was actually predicted... (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867050)

Redheads? They plump [fetishthing.com] when ya cook em!

Re:This was actually predicted... (-1, Offtopic)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867073)

Man I'm gutted you got in there. I was hoping babies first troll would be a first post too. Mum and dad would be so proud.

Ah well.

Re:This was actually predicted... (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867103)

Hi. Please go here, [slashdot.org] and admire the First Post. What's that? It's from a minute before you posted? Oh dear...

China Finds Bugs on Jet Refitted in U.S. (0)

ekrout (139379) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867024)

That's like President Bush sending damaged helicopters to Afghanistan to be "repaired" by Al Quida...

Re:China Finds Bugs on Jet Refitted in U.S. (1)

Kwikymart (90332) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867068)

What the hell? That is a really bad analogy. There would be no reason to get the helicopters fixed by Al Quida. China is getting planes from one of the only places on earth where they produce them; they have to get them from somewhere. China buying planes from Boeing is logical, unlike your analogy.

Re:China Finds Bugs on Jet Refitted in U.S. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867081)

It was a joke. Your intellect is comparable to that of a garden tool.

Re:China Finds Bugs on Jet Refitted in U.S. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867147)

Your ability to joke is less than a garden tool

Re:China Finds Bugs on Jet Refitted in U.S. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867135)

> they have to get them from somewhere

Just maybe: next time theyll think of using Europes Airbus

Re:China Finds Bugs on Jet Refitted in U.S. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867165)

Oh, yes! Which do we fear most? Being bugged by the U.S. or dying in a fiery crash?

Re:China Finds Bugs on Jet Refitted in U.S. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867166)

Oh yes, Europeans would never dream of using espionage.

Well, okay, actually it's more like King Louis said: "You do it. Everybody does it. I just did it and I'm ready to do it again!"

Whole new meaning to the term Bedbug! (3, Funny)

AtomicSushi (444823) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867025)

Don't let the CIA bite.

Re:Whole new meaning of Picturename (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867238)

I don't now if it bytes, but something is funny.

Picture used on the post of this on Slashdot is "TOPICUPGRADES.JPG".
Is Slashdot commenting that news with picture??? Picture is worth a thousand words they say. But the name of picture is important too.

white devils (-1)

Cryptopotamus (460702) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867027)

USA is Babylon.

Whoah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867029)

Just when people were starting to trust the US government they up and do something like this!

What's up with washington post today? (2, Funny)

epsalon (518482) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867030)

Maybe they set their watches wrong, and are now set to Apr 1st?
Could it be true?

Re:What's up with washington post today? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867134)

After all, the US government would NEVER do anything underhanded. Wake up, chief. Check dictionary.com for naive.

Pillow talk, obviously. (3, Insightful)

Russ Nelson (33911) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867035)

The bug in the headboard? For picking up pillow talk, obviously.
-russ

My favorite quote (5, Funny)

anonymous loser (58627) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867036)

A CIA spokesman, Bill Harlow, declined to comment on the report, saying, "We never comment on allegations like these, as a matter of policy."
...except when we didn't do it.

Washington Post Okay?? (1, Troll)

SuperDuG (134989) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867037)

Alright I mean lets look at the past two articles here. AOL (the epitemy of newbiews) is going to buy RedHat. And now ... USA puts listening devices in a Hostile Nuclear Countries Presidential AirPlane????

Ummmm I'm just waiting for the washingtonpost to actually post these stories in their paper before I believe them ... and I would really like to see other sources.

Right now it's looking like someone is having fun with their systems and submitting the faked stories to slashdot. I mean really ... since when does slashdot link to any paper besides the (Registration Required) NY Times?

Re:Washington Post Okay?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867061)

Hmmm... Redundant [slashdot.org] ....

Sounds like a hoax from the Chinese (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867109)

I wouldn't put it past the CIA to do this (hey, it's their job, and the Chinese would be glad to return to favor if they could). However it would be incredibly difficult to pull off without detection.

The bugs need to transmit the information back to a listener at some point, and since we have no conveniently placed listening facilities it would require a signal with a very significant amount (probably more then 0.1 W) of power. the bandwidth required.

Then, there's the bandwidth required. They would need to send literally dozens of audio streams simultaneously. Btw, the editors at this site censor posters by using infinite mod points. Hide messages like this. And if you wait to store information to transmit on command at a convenient time and location (so as to avoid looking suspicious), that increases bandwidth requirements a hundredfold or more!

There's no question to me that the CIA could create bugs that would work okay, and install them, with or without Boeing knowing about it. But surely field tests would show how very detectable they are, and the CIA would probably not be so stupid.

The story may be true, but I think it much more likely that the Chinese are saying this for propaganda purposes... it is entirely consistent with the way they have been guiding Chinese opinion in the last ten years.

Re:Washington Post Okay?? (2, Informative)

Derkec (463377) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867132)

Listening to NPR tonight, the BBC also mentioned this story. It's not just the Washington Post on this one.

New joke (1, Troll)

epsalon (518482) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867047)

How's M$ software like chineese plains?
Both are filled with bugs that are hack by the Chineese.

Payback for CodeRed anyone?

Re:New joke extended (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867200)

Yes, but the plane was debuged. Say that about M$ software if you can.

What saddens me the most about this. . . (0, Insightful)

Cyberllama (113628) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867049)

Is how the description of the plane makes it sound so extravagant while clearly most of the people in China do not even have houses that nice. China gives communism a bad name...to many people have learned to associate "communism" with the countries who exemplify it the least. Whatever happened to "No man should have two overcoats until every man has one?"

Re:What saddens me the most about this. . . (2, Interesting)

canadian_right (410687) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867090)

And Bush lives as well as an average American?

That is an odd thing to complain about when there are so many other glaring human rights problems that are much more serious in china.

Re:What saddens me the most about this. . . (1)

efgbr (470166) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867093)

This is not exclusive to China, it happens everywhere. (yes, in the US too).

Re:What saddens me the most about this. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867111)

dumbass... we aren't communist so we never made the claim of meterial equality for all.

Re:What saddens me the most about this. . . (1)

f00zbll (526151) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867155)

The only answer to that is live in china for a few years and you'll know first hand. A decent substitute to living in china for 10 years is watch about 100 chinese movies, learning chinese and immersing yourself in the local china town. Some good movies on the "People's revolution" and chinese history are:

farewell my concubine
to live
Qui Ju
life on a string
raise the red lantern
red firecracker, green firecracker
raise the red lantern

Historically, most of the people have been poor. All the way from Ching dynasty to the present. I doubt having bugs in the plane will really create additional problems as the article stated. Both government already expect this kind of behavior. They're simply using it to embarras Bush and the administration.

And who gives Communism a good name? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867174)

Yes, and all that occult stuff the Nazis were involved with is what REALLY made them look bad. And their language just sounds, oh, I dunno, kinda angry.

Please give me just a small fucking break.

Communism gives communism a bad name (1)

Infonaut (96956) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867190)

"No man should have two overcoats until every man has one" has NEVER been practiced in any member of the Comintern, or any other "communist" country.

Name one communist country where the vanguard of the proletariat didn't use its power to gain material advantages.

Just ask Trotsky.

Re:What saddens me the most about this. . . (2, Flamebait)

dangermouse (2242) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867197)

... and Air Force One kicks my apartment's ass. My apartment is probably about average. Therefore, by the transitive property of ass-kicking and the associative property of silly comparisons, your point is moot.

China doesn't give Communism a bad name, Communism gives Communism a bad name. Can you name a single Communist nation that you would hold up as a shining beacon to the rest of the world?

Now, a certain degree of socialism, on the other hand... I'm down with that.

Re:What saddens me the most about this. . . (1, Offtopic)

Y-Crate (540566) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867237)

China doesn't give Communism a bad name, Communism gives Communism a bad name. Can you name a single Communist nation that you would hold up as a shining beacon to the rest of the world?

All so-called "Communist" nations are about as far from true Communism as you can get, and are nothing more than petty dictatorships that operate under the guise of being Communist. I find it amazing most people fail to realize this.

Then let's look elsewhere, shall we? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867205)

Khmer Rouge, USSR, North Korea.....

Man, China's starting to look good.

Re:What saddens me the most about this. . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867213)

China gives communism a bad name

Bahah. And this gets modded up to insightful. Let me guess, your European? Typical slashdot, leftist moron. When will you fucktards ever learn?

Reversed situation (5, Funny)

MiTEG (234467) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867051)

Since so many things are manufactured in China and exported to the USA, who's to say that the Chinese haven't been doing this for years? I think it would be very easy to covertly place bugs in things the president has in the Oval Office or Air Force One (electronics, etc.) They just might be doing it a lot more effectively.

Where can I buy this? (1)

laptop006 (37721) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867052)

OK, where can I buy one of these (without the listning devices) and how much would it cost?

USA's response (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867060)

It's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature.

Re:USA's response (1)

junkgrep (266550) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867087)

I just wish people like you worked for the PR wing of the CIA. I think the Chinese ambassador would simply be so dumbfounded by that answer that we'd get away with scot-free.

Re:USA's response (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867220)

Worked for M$ software well for quite sometime. I guess China needs different answer now. It's obvious that they're fed up of this. First they kicked M$ and now....

of course (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867062)

which is why i suck my own cock. can't trust them hoes

Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867123)

I do not understand. -Metrollica

They didn't have to imagine a Beowulf cluster... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867069)

They found and extracted them!

So, how 'bout dem bedbugs? (1)

DuckyExMachina (320160) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867072)

those washington post articles have been wonky lately. I'm just waiting for China's official statement on the whole situation to appear in this week's national enquirer...

Manifesto (-1, Troll)

CaptainSuperBoy (17170) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867074)

OK- I've been on Slashdot for a while now. At first I read it for the links, which were great. Then I started reading comments. I didn't post for a long time. I watched the moderation system evolve into what it is today.

But the fact is, Slashdot is broken. If you're not familiar with the most moderated thread on slashdot, go here [slashdot.org] . Without going into too much detail, nameless Slashdot editors 'threadslapped' an entire thread of comments under the comment entitled "The first Slashdot troll post investigation." Every post there goes to -1, Offtopic within minutes it appears.. which is why I'm not posting this comment in that thread.

When I first read this, I was pissed - isn't Slashdot's moderation system "user based" as CmdrTaco has insisted on since the beginning? CmdrTaco has ALWAYS recommended a moderation system that was completely controlled by the users. He said he was against manually intervening.. until he admitted to bitchslapping users because he didn't like them. But that's old news and if you've been on Slashdot long enough, you know it's par for the course.

Let's compare: Why does Slashdot suck while K5 [kuro5hin.org] continues to be a good community? Don't forget that K5 editors reserve the right to kill comments and even ban users. Rusty is the first to admit that K5 is NOT a democracy [kuro5hin.org] . Still, the two biggest differences are users moderating story submissions, and the fact that you can SEE who moderated each comment, if you want. These two features are enough to prevent this kind of thing (wholesale downvoting of comments) from ever happening on Kuro5hin.

Is it hypocritical to disapprove of Slashdot's editors, while praising K5's editors, even though they have always reserved the right to dictate the content of their site? Yes. But do I care? No, I don't care. The fact is that Slashdot's editors are a bunch of hypocrites themselves. CmdrTaco, champion of "your rights online," violated his own philosophy by sticking his nose in a "user moderated" forum. Jamie McCarthy doesn't post stories often, but this comment on K5 [kuro5hin.org] makes you wonder if he wasn't behind the systematic downmodding.

From his comment: "But if editors (who of course have unlimited mod points, we've said this before) happen to notice off-topic threads taking over stories, we moderate them as such. Duh."

Ah.. but where do you admit to that, Jamie? Not in the Slashdot FAQ.. [slashdot.org] (no, admitting it on K5 does not count). Actually, the FAQ says "Slashdot is committed to the idea of a completely free and open forum." CmdrTaco wrote that, over a year ago. A completely free and open forum that silences an entire discussion because one person didn't like where it was going.

A couple things before I post this and lose all my karma (btw it's just a number and I don't care how much I have). This moderation wouldn't bother me so much, if it wasn't for all the (justified) bitching and moaning from the editors when MS wanted to get a comment taken off of Slashdot. Now they have the gall to do the same thing themselves, without any public comment? I think this deserves a front page 'sorry' from whichever editor did it.

You'll notice I didn't use the word censorship once. This isn't censorship! You don't have a god given right to post to Slashdot. The editors can do what they like. I prefer to look at the site as a sort of failed human experiment. In these comments, you can find humanity at its most eloquent and compassionate (read the 'Hellmouth' stories again. It's worth it. They are that good). You can also find, well, mindless garbage that gives real trolls a bad name. But in the end it comes down to the editors. They're the bread and butter of a site like this, and they used to be good. Many of us have watched this community die, thanks to them.

Well, that's just my take on the matter.

What, really is the fucking point? (-1)

Big_Ass_Spork (446856) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867163)

This is old news. I personally find it amusing that this thread-slapping has turned some disused UID's from the old days into trolls. We all know that Malda is feeling stressed out by being berated constantly by what ammounts to complete strangers (us trolls). I personally speak for me alone when I say I do it out of boredom. I neither know Rob Malda, nor care anything for him.

It is funny to post offensive content to this site. Period. I enjoy it. I do not care if I or everyone else get modded into oblivion, by the janitors or the other users of this system. I have real issues to care about. If I get banned at home, I post at work (and vice versa).

Another funny concept is community . Community it where you live. I know I am as guilty as many of you. I sit on my expanding ass in front of one of my machines for far too many hours a day. I still do not consider any "place" made totally of bits in a database to be my comunity. I would just as easily waste my time elsewhere like I have sime my 1st net connection in 1994, or my pre-/. existance circa late 1999.

Many of us are taking shit WAAAAY too seriously. Kick back, have a bacardi limon and coke and kiss the missus. I know I make my wife a computer widow way too much.

Thank you for your time.

Re:What, really is the fucking point? (-1, Troll)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867201)

Expertly put, big ass spork.

Some of the idiots on here take it all way to seriously. Me, I had an epipthany, and now hope to waste my time on here posting offensive stuff in the hope that one day, I too, can offend as many people as possible. I'll need to work on my racism, or sexism, but I do love a good homo joke. And stuff about Hitler, thats always good for a gas. And the yanks, well I hate the yanks, I much prefer a long, smooth wank.
Oops.

I've said too much. Room on trolltalk for one more?

You're all a bunch of heterosexually frustrated taco worshippers.

Mr Thinly Sliced.

Re:What, really is the fucking point? (-1)

Big_Ass_Spork (446856) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867217)

There is always room for one more.

Re:What, really is the fucking point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867222)

You are still at positive karma? I thought you would be negative after your recent posts. How much karma do you have?

-Metrollica

Re:What, really is the fucking point? (-1, Troll)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867234)

Me is climbing down the karma rapidly.

Was up there with the +1 posting before all this rabid mod-down bollocks from our gods happened. Now I don't give a flying turds christmas bonus for karma.

It's so liberating. It's like finally coming to terms with mutual masterbation at slashdot headquarters.

Another four or five of these posts should sort my karma out though.

President but what about the Premier (1)

Metrollica (552191) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867086)

This aircraft may belong to the chief of state but what aircraft does the head of government use?

Countdown to nuclear war with China: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867091)

3 years, 2 months, 3 days, 1 hour, 27 minutes, 5 seconds and counting.

we'd win... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867136)

our missiles go further and work better.

I see.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867187)

So by "our" you mean the United States. By "go further" you mean further up America's rectum. And by "work better" you mean that it works better than George Bush's manrod reaming out that same enlarged rectum [goatse.cx] that is America.

-Metrollica

Like the Soviets (1)

SpacePunk (17960) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867094)

Makes me wonder where the United States get's off. We complained when the Soviets bugged the embassy they were building for it in the former Soviet Union. Then it turns around and does this. Welcome to the Neo-Soviet Union comrads!

-

Paranoia... (2)

Cryptnotic (154382) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867095)

That's the best thing about paranoia... once you get started, it just builds and builds upon itself until it encompasses everything.


Whether this is true or not does not matter. China figured that they overpaid for the work on the plane. The Chinese government paid $30 million to the Chinese Air Force, who paid the American firms $10,000,000 to do the job. What's a great way to get out of paying your bills? If you're a big nuclear superpower, just make an international incident out of it!


Cryptnotic

Amusing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867098)

What I find most amusing about this is that the "presidential" airplane of China was built in Washington state, USA.

Andy

Re:Amusing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867207)

Well it's not as if China has the know-how to build anything more than those crappy McDonalds toys that come in Happy Meals.

-Metrollica

US versus China (1, Flamebait)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867108)

We've got the technology; the bugs, the transmitters, the surveillance airplanes...

What do the Chinese have? Wen-Ho Lee?

I guess the Chinese are winning... -_-

Don't worry China (1)

dcocos (128532) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867117)

The CIA bugs everyone regardless of if they are our enemy or not. As a US citizen I'm a little worried that the CIA is slipping and got busted, I'm sure that a lot of my hard earned tax dollars funded this mishap.

Re:Don't worry China (1)

krenshala (178676) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867159)

Nah, they're (probably) not slipping.

They probably left some obvious bugs so the Chinese feel like they are securing the plane. You know, leave some to be found, so the *real* bugs aren't messed with.

Re:Don't worry China (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867202)

Yeah and the terrorists of sept 11 were fake ones too ... dream on

Pillow Talk (1)

OctaneZ (73357) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867118)

We all know countless stories have come from pillow talk. A tryst between a reporter and a govermental official is not unheard of, though I am not sure you could get away with it on a government airplane. Perhaps they were hoping to eavesdrop on the President recounting his day to his wife, you never know what night get said.
Just a thought.
-OctaneZ

Re:Pillow Talk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867195)

Reporter and government official? That's nothing, I've heard of trysts between an intern and a... well, on second thought, I wish I could forget one that entirely!

A matter of trust (5, Funny)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867119)

You know I've often wondered how countries can trust US equipment sold to them (or Russian equipment, etc): Who says that the day Saudi Arabia pisses the US off all of their F15s might respond to the "die now" signal and plummet to the ground? If I were ever to buy hardware from a country other than my own I'd go through every single mm of it with a fine tooth comb, and then I'd reflash every piece of circuitry, etc: There is no way I'd ever trust what was delivered. Sorta defeats the premise of military trade, but perhaps that's a good thing.

If this story is true then this will be a disaster for US military and commercial companies: Already there is a world wary of Echelon, but if now they have to worry about every other device being trojan horsed. Having said that, the next time you drink from that "made in China" cup, think to yourself "Would it be in their national interest to put a chemical that slowly leaches into Westerner's systems, causing cancer or just stupifying the society (i.e. lead)."

Re:A matter of trust (1)

FatRatBastard (7583) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867177)

Who says that the day Saudi Arabia pisses the US off all of their F15s might respond to the "die now" signal and plummet to the ground?

From what I understand most of the Saudi airforce is run by ex-US GIs anyway. Forget sending a 'die now' signal, if we ever get into a conflict with Saudi the vast majority of their pilots and support staff will just not be there any more.

Re:A matter of trust (4, Funny)

ArcticChicken (172915) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867185)

I've often said that if China ever planned to conquer the world, they wouldn't use something as expensive, messy, and overt as nuclear weapons. They'd simply release masses of cheap, defective electrical products.

Umm ... wait a minute...

Re:A matter of trust (1)

smkndrkn (3654) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867186)

You wouldn't do what you say for one simple reason. Your buying that product from another country because you don't have the technology/know-how/ability to produce it yourself. So what are you going to re-flash the chips with?

Re:A matter of trust (1)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867208)

My cupboards seem to be full of "Made in China" dishes, but that doesn't mean that I live in a country that doesn't know how to make a cup. There are some countries that are good at making weapons because of the economy of scale (i.e. the US, Russia, etc.), and it doesn't make an awful lot of sense for smaller countries to even try. However that doesn't mean that you can't request the logic behind all ICs, which you can verify and overwrite if necessary. If they refuse, then how could you ever trust the hardware?

Re:A matter of trust (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867214)

Well, I was going to tell you that the US does not sell F-15s to Saudi Arabia, but I see that we do. I guess you learn something every day. However, I don't see why anyone should trust a Mirage more than an F-15. Anyone in the business of building fighter aircraft is bound to have some very strong international interests.

Re:A matter of trust (2)

Malcontent (40834) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867216)

By the same token why would you standardise on an operating system or office software that was built by a US firm. It's infinately easier to install "listening devices" into windows or office then to install them in an airplane. Combine this with the fact that every single company and govt office in your country is going to run the thing on every single desktop and you have a disaster ready to happen.

The CIA (or NSA, or FBI, or MS) theoretically would be able to read any document, created by any application, on any desktop. That would be a much more powerful spying tool then a bug in an airplane that gets used infrequently.

If they knew I was going to bug it... (1)

thogard (43403) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867120)

What are the odds that these bugs were put there to be found. Now China will take the plane apart looking for bugs and when they are sure there are no more, there is a good chance that it will go back into service for its intend use. Is the CIA good enough that there will still be working bugs on the plane after its declared clean?

Boeing is a private company (1)

Ninjak (552197) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867126)

If there are in fact bugs on China's presidential jet then it is not the fault of the US. Boeing is not a division of the United States government, it's a private corporation that makes its own decisions. No one is to blame but the executives at Boeing. If the wheel fell off your new BMW would you blame the German government??

Bugging products you sell is certainly not a friendly business practice. I suggest that China take its business to a company that more appreciates it such as AirBus.

Re:Boeing is a private company (1)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867158)

Businesses that work in the defense industry are anything BUT "private" companies: They are governed by very strict rules and are tightly leashed and very closely monitored, and I'm quite sure that they're forced to go along with devious plans every now and then. If you really think Boeing is a private company then when do you think they'll be starting to ship F-22s to China?

You're kidding, right? (5, Funny)

MadCow42 (243108) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867176)

CIA agent to Boeing exec, after arriving at Boeing facility at midnight: "Hi, we're taking over your facility for the next 8 hours for a matter of national security. Go home. If you tell anyone about this, you'll be put in jail for the rest of your life."

Boeing exec: "Uh.... ok.... uh...."

Probably not too much more complicated than that.

q:]

MadCow.

Re:Boeing is a private company (1)

Detritus (11846) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867183)

AirBus uses only the finest bugs, lovingly crafted and maintained by the DGSE [fas.org] .

The bug in the headboard... (2)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867127)

...was for Cinemax's new "World Leaders: EXPOSED" series. Coming this fall. You don't wanna know what they caught Jean Chretien doing -- or DO you?

- A.P.

Yup (2, Interesting)

J4 (449) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867128)

Is this a surprise? Gotta wonder how much of the tech China bought during the Clinton administration is booby-trapped

The best quote... (1)

Kiryat Malachi (177258) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867131)

More broadly, Western diplomats said they believed Washington and Beijing would weather the dispute. "This kind of thing is to be expected," said a Chinese security expert, who noted that relations between Washington and Moscow were not seriously disrupted by disclosures in the 1980s that the Soviets had bugged the new U.S. Embassy. The expert added, "Even if our relations were excellent, we would still spy on each other."


Well, the other side will own up to it... now for the CIA....

Not to worry. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867141)

As the article mentions, the Soviets bugged the new US embassy in the 80's, and although we (the US) complained about it, there was no real effect on relations. The Chinese are complaining now, as we complained then, more for the benefit of the domestic population. Btw, the editors here use unlimited mod points to censor posts. Hide messages like this. There is a small chance that they cooked the whole thing up as propaganda anyway. Now, it will affect how ordinary people think and act, but the very high level diplomatic officals on both sides are well trained to ignore matters like this when in negotiation.

Other way cool spying gizmos (5, Informative)

S Nichol (230334) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867143)

The US has also used the following nifty tricks to spy on its enemies and its allies:

1. The ambassador in some Communist country (maybe even the USSR, I don't remember exactly which) would avoid potential bugs in his office by holding conversations on the balcony outside. Intelligence officials noticed there was often a lot of branches on the ground, so they put together a fake tree branch containing a listening device and planted it outside the balcony. Eventually a gardener picked it up, but said intelligence officials grabbed it out of the trash, dusted it off, and replanted it.

2. When Khruschev came to visit the US during the 1960s, the CIA spent $2 million to divert the plumbing to his hotel bathroom to a special container so they could analyze his fecal matter. Apparently they were hoping to find out if rumors he had cancer were true. The $2 million conclusion? Khruschev needed more fibre in his diet.

3. The Cabinet room in Ottawa (the capital of Canada for the ignorant) has special curtains that are always drawn. The reason? The US Embassy (an ugly postmodern glass-and-steel combo with foot-thick windows) is just across the street, and happens to have a ton of spying equipment on the roof, including laser devices capable of picking up subtle vibrations of windows and passing the data to a computer that spits out a coherent version of the conversation.

4. The CIA (although I thought the NRO - National Reconnaissance Office - ran American spy satellite operations) is rumored to have at least one satellite that has the space version of stealth technology. This satellite reportedly uses mirrors to foil visual detection from the ground, thereby enabling to spy on without knowing he is being watched.

Re:Other way cool spying gizmos (2)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867226)

The Cabinet room in Ottawa (the capital of Canada for the ignorant) has special curtains that are always drawn. The reason? The US Embassy (an ugly postmodern glass-and-steel combo with foot-thick windows) is just across the street, and happens to have a ton of spying equipment on the roof, including laser devices capable of picking up subtle vibrations of windows and passing the data to a computer that spits out a coherent version of the conversation.

Why would the US be spying on CANADA?

Conversely, why would Canada fear US spying?

Bug in bathroom? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867146)

What's the bug in the bathroom for? Some things you just don't want to listen to, no matter what intelligence you might gain!

I thought communists were supposed to be smart... (2, Insightful)

bluntmanspam (186509) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867149)

I mean, good grief, if Karl Marx wasn't already spinning like a gyroscope in his grave over running 'the people' over with tanks and the like, he would have to going nuts over the general downfall of genius-communism exhibited by the Chinese government here. The U.S. spys on everybody, including friends, so how did they think they would send an airplane back to the U.S. and not have the CIA get their hands on it?

From Lenin to Jiang Zemin is obviously not progress.

Sounds so familar (2, Funny)

jsse (254124) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867164)

A CIA spokesman, Bill Harlow, declined to comment on the report, saying, "We never comment on allegations like these, as a matter of policy."

...did you by chance work for Microsoft before?

Just Because The ChiComms say something.... (1)

quakeaddict (94195) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867171)

doesn't mean its true.

As for me, if it turns out to be true, I'm glad at least that we, the USA, are starting to push back a bit.

The question is, what was the bug in the headboard (0)

jhines0042 (184217) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867178)

The question is, what was the bug in the headboard for?

"Awww, thats just pillow talk baby!" --Ash, housewares (Army of Darkness)

Not Neccesarily the USA (3, Insightful)

dragons_flight (515217) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867184)

Okay, it's certainly the most likely scenario that the CIA would bug this plane, but I can't help but wonder if it isn't too obvious? Besides isn't 20+ bugs a little overkill? With that many you're almost certain to get caught and the you'd have to really want the intelligence enough that you'd hope a few wouldn't get found.

So what are the alternatives? I suppose there are a few other countries with the technology, and a few that might want to spy on China. India might be the next most likely, but they still seem pretty unlikely to be in a position to pull it off. Perhaps it was an inside job then? Maybe China wants a diplomatic incident? Or, maybe their spy agency would be interested in bugging their own president?

Since no one ever confesses in these situations, and it's unlikely that there will ever be enough proof to really say who accomplished this or how. My money is still on the CIA though, but it forces me to wonder whether the administration is a bit more frightened than they let on? I mean what does it really say if the intelligence is so valuable that they'd risk an almost certain diplomatic incident by using so many bugs on the hope a few bugs would remain undiscovered.

On the other hand, it's equally fair to wonder whether the US wants a diplomatic incident? But I have a hard time justifying that one in these times. Isn't terrorism a good enough evil for the 21st century?

Re:Not Neccesarily the USA (3)

dangermouse (2242) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867236)

Okay, it's certainly the most likely scenario that the CIA would bug this plane, but I can't help but wonder if it isn't too obvious?

The CIA isn't always the picture of subtlety, you know.

Besides isn't 20+ bugs a little overkill? With that many you're almost certain to get caught and the you'd have to really want the intelligence enough that you'd hope a few wouldn't get found.

We really want the intelligence. Boy howdy, do we ever want that intelligence. The repercussions of being caught are really relatively minor, compared with the potential benefits should the bugs go undiscovered for a while.

On the other hand, it's equally fair to wonder whether the US wants a diplomatic incident? But I have a hard time justifying that one in these times. Isn't terrorism a good enough evil for the 21st century?

Ooh, goody! Let's play conspiracy theory!

No, terrorism isn't a good enough evil, at least not for military budgets. The American people are only going to put up with that war for so long. It'll be handy for political use, but not for pushing money around long-term. What's needed is a good, solid cold war. You get the occasional flash points (Vietnam, Korea, Guam...) for political brownie points, and you get to pump money into military contractors at a sustained high rate. Not to mention other strategic industries like, say, energy production.

On the other hand, maybe the general feeling is that the Chinese can only afford to distance themselves from us so much right now, so it's a great time to mess with 'em a little and see what we can get away with.

Obligatory (1)

dnoyeb (547705) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867188)

Well you know we had to try. If they didn't try, I'd want my money back. This is much less embarassing than the "tunnel beneath the Russian Embasy in Washington."

A friendly double-standard. (1)

KhanReaper (514808) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867199)

China: Nuclear Arms
America: Espionage
Great, I am certain this double standard will go over quite well with arms negotiations.

China sucks shit (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867203)

except their girls. Tiny, dark, and TIGHT. 100 yuan, about $12 US, for a fuck near Shenzhen, China, one of the best bargains of my life. Woo!

Food (1)

inerte (452992) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867209)

Pretzels part of the menu?

The future that never was..... (1)

Y-Crate (540566) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867211)

CIA Spook: "Boss, we've heard some rather interesting transmissions from the Chinease leader's bedroom"

Head Spook: "Please, don't tell me if this is gonna be some more 'Happy Fun Time' stuff with him and his missus."

CIA Spook: "No, sir, we have the translation for you, right here."

++++++++Begin Transcript****TOP SECRET+++++++

"HAHAHHAHAHAHAAHA! YUO IZ OWN3D HAHAHAHAHAH COCKSUCKER HAHAHAHAHAHA DUMB LAMAZ, ALWAYS PLAYING HW GUY! HAVEN'T YOU GOT A 1337 RIG LIKE ME? I IZ USING VIRTUAL PC ON MY WICKED 233 IMAC!!!! I CAN RUN TEAMFORTRESS ON UNIX, THAT'S LIKE LINUX, WHAT ALL THE SMART KIDS USE, BUT, NOT AS GAY HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!"

++++++End Transcript**********************

I like Chinese (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2867218)

I like Chinese, I like Chinese,
They only come up to you knees,
Yet they're always friendly and they're ready to to please.

I like Chinese, I like Chinese,
There's nine hundred million of them in the world today,
You'd better learn to like them, that's what I say.

I like Chinese, I like Chinese,
They come from a long way overseas,
But they're cute, and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese food,
The waiters never are rude,
Think the many things they've done to impress,
There's Maoism, Taoism, I-ching and chess.

I like Chinese, I like Chinese,
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their Ying and Yang-ese.

I like Chinese thought,
The wisdom that Confucius taught,
If Darwin is anything to shout about,
The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like Chinese, I like Chinese,
They only come up to you knees,
Yet they're wise, and they're witty, and they're ready to please

Wo ai Zhongguo ren,
Wo ai Zhongguo ren,
Wo ai Zhongguo ren,
Ni hao ma, Ni hao ma, Ni hao ma, Zai jian.

I like Chinese, I like Chinese,
They're food is guaranteed to please,
A fourteen, a seven, a nine and lychees

I like Chinese, I like Chinese,
I like their tiny little trees,
Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin and yang-ese

I like Chinese, I like Chinese, (fade out....) .

Everybody spies on everybody (3, Interesting)

kenneth_martens (320269) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867225)

This is not suprising: the US spies on everyone, including allies (yes, even Britain.) (In fact, I saw a documentary the other day about how we bugged the Xerox machine at the Soviet embassy, and got snapshots of all their documents for years.) So while it may be a little embarrassing to get caught, it isn't a revelation. China shouldn't take it personally--we spy on everyone.

Of course, that doesn't mean spying is moral or ethical--that is another discussion entirely.

The implicit assumption here (1)

LadyLucky (546115) | more than 12 years ago | (#2867230)

Is that the only thing the US did wrong was to get caught.

The lessons to take away are what was done wrong that led to the bugs being discovered.

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