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China Orders E-Mail Screening

chrisd posted more than 12 years ago | from the we-heard-about-this-during-jiang's-pillowtalk dept.

News 409

Greyfox writes: "According to this CNN article, China has ordered Internet providers to screen users' E-mails for subversive statements. See how fascist governments control the flow of information? Aren't you glad our government doesn't do this? Oh... Wait..."

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409 comments

Faust (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868096)

First baby woop woop!

Re:Faust (-1)

core10k (196263) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868170)

Once again, Slashdot shows it's deep prejudice against other cultures.



God damn, have you guys ever stepped in another STATE, let alone another country?



You can't really be this ignorant, right?

IIRC... (0, Offtopic)

11thangel (103409) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868098)

China is communist, not fascist :)

Re:IIRC... (2, Offtopic)

nagora (177841) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868107)

China is communist, not fascist :)

When you mean what China means by "communist" it's the same thing.

TWW

Re:IIRC... (2)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868246)

Other than the basic ideals that we all know [economy and control] of there is another difference between the right and left extremes we are speaking of.

Fascists [in doctrine] are to war with everyone in the world until only them, the supreme race/society is left, leaving a 'virtual' utopia for that superior state. The communists believe that the only war needed would be destroy the ones who oppose communism. Take WWII. If Hitler, the fascist, would have continued the war wouldn't have ever ended.

Communism though, is fascist in effect if you don't want to be a communist. In Critique of the Gotha Programme Marx says a communist state would only be needed to protect the communists... after this control wouldn't be needed anymore. The state would dissolve. So I guess we are the ones in the way of true communism.

Considering if they are all true communists, they wouldn't complain because all e-mail belongs to the state.

IMHO, our country [US] will be communism down the road. It's when you try to hurry it is when you cause problems. You need to let it evolve on its own.

Re:IIRC... (1)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868136)

Quite correct.

Although we can debate if they are really communists, they aren't fascists.

China is to the far left, the extreme. Fascists are the extreme to the right.

Are they communists? They can't be because they haven't reached that point where 'everyone knows your name'... I mean 'everyone gets the same'.

Re:IIRC... (1)

mrseth (69273) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868154)

In my opinion, the political spectrum is really sort of circular. Once you go so far left or so far right you just end up at a meeting point. For instance, I don't see too much difference between Hitler and Stalin.

Re:IIRC... (1)

uncl_bob (529354) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868237)

I totally agree with you. Extreme right, extreme left, whats the big difference...

Re:IIRC... (1)

sketerpot (454020) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868317)

I tend to just classify them as Authoritarian Nincompoops and be done with it.

It just makes things easier.

Re:IIRC... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868277)

Kind of like you... I can't tell if you're talking out of your ass or your mouth. I don't see much difference between the two.

Idiot.

Re:IIRC... (1, Offtopic)

SocietyoftheFist (316444) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868143)

Fascists practice facism :
fas.cism \'fash-.iz-*m, 'fas-.iz-\ \-*st\ \fa-'shis-tik also -'sis-\
\-ti-k(*-)le-\ n [It fascismo, fr. fascio bundle, fasces, group, fr. L
fascis]bundle & fasces fasces 1: the body of principles held by Fascisti 2:
a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and race and
stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial
leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression
of opposition - fas.cist nor ;aj

Re:IIRC... (1)

andykuan (522434) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868235)

With the exception of the bit about "severe economic regimentation", the rest of the definition seems to describe the PRC political system quite well.

Let's look at a definition of communism:
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.

My money's on "fascist" not "communist" as a proper label for the Chinese government.

Re:IIRC... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868165)

Kinda OT so I'll post as AC

China is neither fascist nor really communist. But here's an interesting fact: During the 1800s and early 1900s, China was trying to become industrialized while keeping their old Chinese and Confucian values (like Japan had done during the Meiji restoration.) In my opinion China has succeded in their goal very well.

Not news (1)

Chester Abecrombe (549881) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868101)

This is no different from screening snail mail, and China has been doing that for years. Things like this happen frequently in communist countries. This is no surprise to me.

Re:Not news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868214)

What you talking about? Are you telling me that nor US or UK govermnent services do peeking in snail mail and email? Oh please.

"grow up 007"

Re:Not news (1)

fishebulb (257214) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868263)

this is not a method of communism, This is a method of ruling over the people. Those two are seperate. in an actual communist society, there would be no place for this, and no need for it

Re:Not news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868276)

they just dont give up..do they...
show them their corruption and bullshit and they just deny it to your face...
you LOOOSE commie

Pnly the guilty need worry. (1, Flamebait)

nagora (177841) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868102)

Of course, who decides what "guilty" means is the real issue. Can any one say "Cuban military base"?

TWW

Devil's Advocate (4, Insightful)

Glorat (414139) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868109)

Well, at worst it is only consistent with their general policy of internet filtering/censorship. If they have their "Great firewall of China" this is a logical extension of that firewall.

Maybe this will close up some of the relays ;) (4, Funny)

teambpsi (307527) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868122)

Considering the number of relays in orbz and ordb that are out of the 210 and 211 sub-class A blocks i would think that perhaps this might be a good thing, in so far as the mail relays getting closed up

Since a majority of that "subversive" text being bounced off of them are for "american get rich way of life" propaganda ;)

Errr, will this mean the Open Relays/porn Spam (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868123)

Will come to an end?

Or, are the messages about reducing debt, ways to make my penis 581% larger (thus causing me having to get custom tailored pants), and pictures of expensive, high maintainance women some sort of attempt to cause me to overextend my credit?

And, if EVERY American goes and spends like George Bush said we should, capitolism thusly collapses, leaving only glorious communism?

This is why... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868131)

I am teaching myself Navaho!

Adroit phraseology... (2, Funny)

Foehg (48006) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868132)

` The new rules include a long list of banned content prohibiting
writings that reveal state secrets, hurt China's reputation or
advocate the overthrow of communism, ethnic separatism or "evil
cults."'

Surely, the government wouldn't want anyone to overthrow ethnic separatism or evil cults...

Oh, wait.

The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (3, Interesting)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868135)

. . . in this issue is that China is actually admitting to its people that its "law enforcement" agencies are spying on them.

Here, we get things like Carnivore and promises that they'll only be used with warrants. Or to catch mobsters. Or terrorists. Honest.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (2, Flamebait)

dj28 (212815) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868188)

No, there's a BIG difference between what the USA and China does, and you would know that if you would have read the article. What you just said states your massive liberal bias that is found on the majority of this site. Such things that are not allowed in China's emails include violence or pornography. By the way, here's a more informative article: http://www.ananova.com/yournews/story/sm_498876.ht ml

Such things that are outlawed include "Outlawed writings include any that reveal state secrets, feature pornography and violence or advocate cults."

See the difference there? Thank you.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (1)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868226)

What difference does it make? Spying is spying and monitoring is monitoring. I just said that the Chinese are being up front about it, which they are. You don't know what the rules here are. Maybe there's an off-the-books federal database in some agency of people moving violent or pornographic material that you and I aren't aware of. Sounds a little conspiracy theorist, I admit, but how hard would it be for $THREE_LETTER_AGENCY to subvert a low level employee at the NOC of a major ISP (laundered through a "mafia" connection or somesuch, gotta have that deniability)?

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (4, Insightful)

dj28 (212815) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868243)

Your extremist views pretty much negate any thoughful comment you had in that post, and that's a shame. There is a big difference that I pointed out in my original post. Email sent here in the USA does not have limitations on pornography (look at all the porn email now, although a lot of it constitutes spam), violence (unless it's a threat toward someone specific), or any idealogical/religous/cult thoughts. That isn't so in China. Sending a lot of emails we send here in the states would be illegal in China. Putting China's screening techniques on the same level as the USA's once again shows your liberal bias. Remember, it's easy coming up with complex conspiracy theories. Backing them up isn't so easy when they aren't true. That's the easy way out.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (1)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868257)

It's pretty easy to "win" in a discussion by calling the other guy an extremist too, you know.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (1)

dj28 (212815) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868261)

I'm sorry if your views are extremist. I didn't write it. I was pointing out how you were wrong by merely quoting facts I read in the article. Read the article please.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (1)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868271)

No, you called me an extremist. That's not a reasoned argument. Let's just quit pretending it is.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868291)

hmmm...
waaaa!!waaaa!!!...no YOU'RE not argueing right!!!
WWWWAAAAAAAA!!!

shaddap commie
go back to china and get run over by a tank dumbass

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868319)

Won't have to. It'll be China right here in a few years, Mr. Eloquence.

~~~

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868239)

Liberal bias? I tend to think that keeping the government out of private communication is a conservative value, the subversion of that term by the party in office notwithstanding.

~~~

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (1)

Cocoronixx (551128) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868315)

> I tend to think that keeping the government out of private communication is a conservative value, the subversion of that term by the party in office notwithstanding. Very true, anyone who has takein a 12 grade US government should know that republicans (conservatives) are pro 'small government.' Having a government agengy sift through all communications is hardly a 'small government' quality.

But i do agree with most of the original posters comments, people who take 'civil rights/liberties' too far really need to step back and look.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (2, Insightful)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868299)

A High Ranking Navy Officer was scandalized here in Canada when it was found that he had used a Navy laptop to access porn. It wasn't quite email filtering, but they were monitoring the usage of the computer. I just want to point out that the people of China cannot choose their policies and laws. That we all know. So really, taking the two courses of action upon implementing email filtering, being upfront or not telling people, I think being upfront is cool.

You are merely complaining about what constitutes subversive material (our countries are notorious [queertheory.com] for turning away erotic lesbian and gay material if its high profile enough in the market, like an artsy book or whatnot) and the more restrictive morals set by the state. Like, sure, we all knew that! but between then government being upfront vs. the government letting 'subversives' get jailed with no warning, I think they did the right thing.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868240)

Are you implying that China is actually being more forthright with their actions? (I agree completely, btw). If you're going to fuck us over, we want to know about it...

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (1)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868249)

Are you implying that China is actually being more forthright with their actions?

Precisely. They're telling their people that they'll be sniffing their traffic, while our government made tools in secret (as well as they could) to do it, without technical controls to prohibit their use without a lawful warrant, and supported legislation untying their hands from all that messy "warrant" business.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868262)

Interesting thought, but let me play the devil's advocate for a little bit: in the U.S., the government can't do this in public yet. This implies that the citizens still have a modicum of power, and that the government cannot yet be utterly brazen. This means that they can't outright say 'we want tax money for implementing a spy network', for example.

That isn't to say that tax money isn't used, or that the network isn't implemented, but at least they dare not do it in public yet, unlike in China.

(For reference, I have mixed feelings about the argument either way, seeing as how I was born in China, immigrated to the U.S., but fully realize that I am still (at least perceived) as a Chinese by the population at large...)

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (1)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868301)

Interesting thought, but let me play the devil's advocate for a little bit: in the U.S., the government can't do this in public yet.

I agree, but think it naïve to think it's not happing in a "black" way. Let's both hope we don't get to the point where it can be done publicly.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (2)

dj28 (212815) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868273)

What? Them telling people about it has nothing to do with the actual point they are trying to make. They want to prosecute people based on pornograpgy, violence, or cult/religous thoughts. How you make a parallel between China and the USA in that regard is beyond me.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (2)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868279)

The parallel isn't in the specific actions they're taking--it's that they're taking them overtly. Whether they'd put someone in prison or shoot them for emailing a goatse.cx link or not is irrelevant to that point.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (2)

dj28 (212815) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868282)

It's completely revalent becuase that's the basis of them filtering the email.

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (2)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868309)

As opposed to a basis consisting of, say, communications to Al Qa'ida, which would be interpreted as just as much of a threat to our state as China considers porn and violent matter to theirs?

Re:The difference between China and the U.S. . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868307)

Funny. I thought the difference between China and the U.S. had something to do with China having a history and culture that goes back thousands of years, while America has none to speak of.

Well that and all the Chinese people. Did you know there's a Chinese restaurant on every street corner in China? Yeah.

Chinese Communism = Evil (0, Troll)

zenhonky (548643) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868141)

The chinese govt. is evil. I don't need to debate this, or read about yet another one of their stunts to form this opinion. Look at what they did in the 50's to Tibet. The Dalai Lama is in exile now, and they force their communist yoke over the whole country. The chinese govt. will fall, maybe not in my lifetime, but it will fall.

Re:Chinese Communism = Evil (0)

cockroach2 (117475) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868162)

So is the U.S. government. I mean, remember Iraq, Vietman, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc.? "That's not the same!" you say? It IS! The U.S. want those parts of the world to be "free" (as in "the way WE like it"), China wants Tibet to be the way China likes it. Besides, of course the chinese govt. enforces the Communist lifestyle, which is about the same the u.s. does. Could you imagine people in the U.S. saying "hey, we're communists. we won't adapt to your lifestyle. we just take what we want, because everything belongs to everybody" - governments HAVE to enforce their system.

I don't say the Chinese (or communist) way is good, i just don't think you can blame them for doing the same things the U.S. do, if you don't blame them as well...

Re:Chinese Communism = Evil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868206)

Love the way you got modded down. Some one with mod rights didnt like the truth eh?

Add to that Grenada, Cuba, atrocities in WW2, appalling records on civil rights, experimentation on innocent civilians, McCartyism, Nixon, Hiroshima, Nagasaki. China starts to look rather tame!

And thats just the highlights.

Dont believe the hype about communism sure, just dont believe the hype about the "American Way".

Guess satire shows like The Simpsons fail to make a dent on the psyche of some.

Re:Chinese Communism = Evil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868303)

man you suck...even with this socialist.commie board you get modded down...
sad,commie,sad

Re:Chinese Communism = Evil (1)

zenhonky (548643) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868283)

I don't think the U.S. handles itself very well either. Don't assume you know what my opinion is. This thread was about china, not the U.S. If someone had posted an article about the U.S., then I would have responded with my opinion on that matter.

Re:Chinese Communism = Evil (2)

panda (10044) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868163)

All govt. is evil. Not having govt. is evil. You make a compromise between one evil and another, and you decide which evil you prefer. (Using a traditional Western definition of "evil.") That's the way most people see it.

BTW, all governments fall eventually. Maybe not in your lifetime, but they have all fallen in the past and there is no reason to believe that trend will not continue into the future. Heck, some govts fall so often that we don't bother to count.

Re:Chinese Communism = Evil (1)

filtersweep (415712) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868177)

That's a pretty sophisticated argument you have going there: "Chinese Communism = Evil." Look at the diversity in the number of ethnic groups, religions, and even languages; the sheer number of people living in China, etc... China has arguably done very well with their "communist yok."

The Europeans seem to have a view of US human rights and foreign policy as being quite shady, and many mid-Easterns view the US as being dowright evil.

"Evil" seems to be a relative concept. There are plenty of right-wingers living in the US who would just as soon burn the Constitution, and it is already starting to smolder after the Sept. "attacks."

Re:Chinese Communism = Evil (2)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868265)

All governments are Evil, get over it. Without governments who would be able to put a little "evil" in this life, who???

Linux - the key to oppression? (5, Funny)

Sinistar2k (225578) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868142)

Now thanks to Red Flag Linux, filtering the thoughts of your citizens is cheaper and more reliable than ever!

Back in the day, you'd have to pay Microsoft big bucks to squelch dissenting opinions and always had to worry that radicals spreading Western ideals would be able to exploit OS vulnerabilities and cause trouble. Not any more!

I wonder if China will GPL their filtering software?

(By the way, I'm not being down on Linux. I'm just dismayed at the irony of a government using one of the most free [as in liberty] operating systems to actually reduce freedom.)

Re:Linux - the key to oppression? (2)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868193)

I wonder if China will GPL their filtering software?

Don't you mean the mods they made after they got it from the NSA?

Of course they aren't going to release it! Not because there is some huge secret, but because no one is going to make them. Is GNU/Linus going to march into T.Square and demand they do?

I'm not being down on linux either, just gov't. It's almost as fun as trying to hit up on M$, but I'll stick to that.

I would be more interested in the word list. I'm sure the NSA list is similar to this [slashdot.org] [my] email I like to send out to get the alarms to go off in Washington. Of course it should be updated for the 'new world' we live in.

Re:Linux - the key to oppression? (1)

Cuthalion (65550) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868234)

I wonder if China will GPL their filtering software?


Even if they do, they only have to share the source with the people they give the binaries to. Which will probably be nobody.

Re:Linux - the key to oppression? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868245)

(By the way, I'm not being down on Linux. I'm just dismayed at the irony of a government using one of the most free [as in liberty] operating systems to actually reduce freedom.)

China is not reducing their citizen's freedoms. They never had the freedom to disagree with their government.

Re:Linux - the key to oppression? (2)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868251)

in Short : "Back in the day, MS was happily screwing China. Now China is happily screwing and abusing the work of every Open Source developer".

yep, Viva la revolution!

Re:Linux - the key to oppression? (1)

fishebulb (257214) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868288)

how are they screwing developers? to my knowledge, and please inform me nicely if i am mistaken on this. That any REDISTRIBUTED changes made to GPLed software needs to inclue source and such. China wouldnt really be redistributing it, they'd be using it. It would be a really large example of me producing a modified version for internal use at my company. I dont think i have to release that to the public. That is exactly what china is doing. It just gets a little trickier because they are a government.

Not the first post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868147)

Why have the FIRST POST! when you can have a post which is not the first post!

Typical liberal leftist name-calling (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868152)

China is a *communist* country, not fascist. Please, try to get it right. The left you love and adore is equally capable of crushing human rights. Numerous examples abound - look at the media's darling Castro - Cubans die of old age and malnutrition in jail for having dared to speak against the socialist regime in place there. Political extremes, right or left, are indistinguishable to the man in the street, both crush all liberty.

This is news??? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868155)

I happen to live in China, and I'll eat my hat if they haven't scanned every email that I've sent which didn't go through this IP tunnel, ever since I moved here years ago.... Maybe the real news is that they are making the ISP's do the work for them? Or is it that they aren't pretending not to invade privacy anymore?

Read the Chinese Constitution first. (5, Informative)

karmma (105156) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868158)

It's already in the The Chinese Constitution [peopledaily.com.cn] . This "new" policy is merely an application of an existing law to new technology.
Article 40. The freedom and privacy of correspondence of citizens of the People's Republic of China are protected by law. No organization or individual may, on any ground, infringe upon the freedom and privacy of citizens' correspondence except in cases where, to meet the needs of state security or of investigation into criminal offences, public security or procuratorial organs are permitted to censor correspondence in accordance with procedures prescribed by law.


Do any readers here actually believe that snail mail to and from China is any less scrutinized than email will be? My sister lived and taught in China for a couple of years (we are Americans). Letters and packages I sent to her were routinely opened and inspected before they were delivered to her. I can safely assume that if she and I had access to email at the time, those correspondences would have been equally intercepted and reviewed as well.

Re:Read the Chinese Constitution first. (2, Interesting)

eformo (552250) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868174)

I'm studying abroad in China right now, and I know people who've received care packages that contained nothing but cookie crumbs wrapped in packing tape with "Public Security Bureau" stamped on it. -Ex

Re:Read the Chinese Constitution first. (1)

andykuan (522434) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868281)

My sister also taught in China. At some point during her stay in China, a party member mentioned that he was looking forward to meeting my father who was slated to visit my sister in a couple months. She, of course, had heard nothing about a visit -- that is, until she received some (pre-opened) mail from my dad several weeks later in which he tells her he's planning on visiting her in China.

Anyway, it's a bit unfair to compare the U.S. government's intended use of carnivore to the (not so new?) email screening policy in mainland China. I don't like carnivore any more than the next /. reader, but if you look at the track record of China compared to the U.S., there really is a huge difference: the U.S. government has never made it a habit to crack open people's snail mail.

It's like that old hoax... (2)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868160)

...that goes if you say JFK or some sort of keyword a tape recorder in Langley comes on. That was pure bullshit, and someone about a month ago tried to convince me that it was true. Don't people realize the computing power that is needed to do such a thing! This hoax at least goes back to the 80's. Like everyone in the telco industry would need to be in on it, and someone would have leaked it all.

But this, is likely not a hoax. I'm sure they are doing it. But I won't read the CNN article because they are so [left/right] wing. They can't pick which side they want to distort, almost like they depend on which demographic is watching.

I guess for the gov't this becomes a great tool for watching the citizens. If they act on the information is one thing. But we just watch people who we suspect [MLK Jr], the Chinese have got a one up since they can watch everyone at once.

Attached [in a reply] is an e-mail I like to send to myself every now and then. Then I watch for that white van that parks in front of my house.

my funny e-mail to catch that Echelon eye: (1, Redundant)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868167)

JFK's bush deads' ghost killed MLK or martin LUTHER KiNG.

we all know this service is fucking fake and there is no such
thingasprivacy MONEY LAUNDER-MUTHER FOCKER00-00-00 PIN: ASSASINATE

the fourth admendment amendment CLINTON GORE AND A ANGEL OF SATAN GEORGE
BUSH IS A MUTHER FUCKOR - "in the middle of indiana there is a place 200
feet underground with mainframe computers and 20 tones of mainframe
computers and that was in 1970 " what about now what about the kids? the
government is a child molester- its a whore and its a bomb waiting to blow
up - but now it's in a HIGH SCHOOL! the bomb the american BUSH government
NADER is planted is in a school! its in the ghetto and now it's even on
the steps of their own federal building

Races in CInCinnSINcinnati- are being profiled and lined up "TO KILL THE
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES" and killed by the police who work for them
"THE HARD WORKING UNDERCLASS OF AMERICA" who don't care "WANT TO KILL THE
POLICE" who they work for - they are their own gang "I and the gangs want
to kill the police" we all want the police to stop killing us in the
streets -we want people to stop reading our EMAIL our email

I KILLED JFK IT WAsN'T the NSA-FBI-DEA-FDA-ADA-CLINTON-or MLK or EVEN
LBJ!? THEY ALL DIED AND WAS reborn with christ when abe lincoln took it in
the back by AMERICA and the soviets in vietnam - the police action to end
all police actions

POLICE=US GOV'T+RICH bush W GEORgEieieiei + CAMPAIGN FUNDS + THE MoB

FUCKING SHIT I HATE THE PEOPLE WHO READ MY E_MAIL AOL-TIMEWARNER I LOVE
ROAD RUNNER- IT SUCKS MY BALLS PORNO

Re:It's like that old hoax... (-1)

core10k (196263) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868184)

Telecom software (ATM, TCP/IP whatever, I dunno, they're hugely massive programs, I've never seen anything but a network diagram from one of 'em) has something jokingly called 'CIA mode' where an authorized person can drop in on anyone's telephone conversation.

I'm sure sooner or later they'll get around to recording all conversations for later use, and 'CIA Mode' will always be on. Fun fun.

Re:It's like that old hoax... (1)

humanasset (206242) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868314)

In accordance to the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) the Feds have the capability to tap 1 % of all phone calls in major US cities remotely.

This according to Phil Zimmermann author of PGP:

http://www.philzimmermann.com/essays-WhyIWrotePG P. shtml

It's a slippery slope.... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868164)

and we are sliding down it at breakneck speed.

Offered for your Fascist consideration...

o- Asset forfeiture of people who have not even been convicted of a crime.

o- FBI breaking and entering and placing keyboard sniffers on someone's PC to snag their PGP key without their knowledge.

o- Carnivore (as you so well alluded).

o- Magic Lantern

o- Linking of state's driver's license databases to provide the equivilant of a National ID Card.

o- Ubiquitous surveillance cameras in public places.

The US government, federal and local law enforcement want to control YOU!

Re:It's a slippery slope.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868178)

Ya if by "YOU!" you mean terrorists, drug smugglers and mafia bosses...

Quoting Mussolini.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868185)

"Facisim should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power."

Benito Mussolini

China and the US (1, Interesting)

James Foster (226728) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868196)

"See how fascist governments control the flow of information? Aren't you glad our government doesn't do this? Oh... Wait..."

The difference is that China doesn't try to hide the fact that they screen e-mails. They tell everyone that they will monitor their e-mails and people can decide what to say based on that. The US is much more secretive about it.

Re:China and the US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868320)

"They tell everyone that they will monitor their e-mails and people can decide what to say based on that"
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

decide, eh?

yea,there's no cersoring like self-censoring...

Can Moderators mod articles for FlameBait...? (2, Insightful)

Dr Fro (169927) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868197)

Or maybe troll... I know I wouldn't have posted if the submitter hadn't added that last comment.

No one legitimately gripes about China because they have jails, searches, etc.

They do it because it can be done without due process. For all your bitching, the fact that you can even complain about the Federal government aloud without fear of being investigated shows how meaningless the statement was.

Of course our system isn't perfect - but nothing is. But saying if you get pushed and if you get shot in the head is the same thing won't get anywhere.

what is happening in the US isnt' even similar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868198)

If you can't tell the difference between reading email with a search warrant issued by a judge and wholesale searching for anything subversive then you ought to go to China for a couple years and find out the difference. I don't see why the slashdot crowd has its panties in such a bunch over the fact that the government can search your computer, of Course they can. With a warrant they can search whatever they want. It isn't news and it isn't oppression.

Re:what is happening in the US isnt' even similar (2)

Alan Cox (27532) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868253)

No search warrant needed. In the US or in the UK.

Re:what is happening in the US isnt' even similar (2, Insightful)

J'raxis (248192) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868258)

When laws are passed that practically allow the FBI to print their own warrants, the protection that requiring a warrant offers sort of evaporates. The reason that requiring a warrant has (previously) been thought of as sufficient protection is because the cops need quite a bit of evidence to convince a judge to grant them a warrant. If they can get a warrant anytime they want, how is this any better than them legally surveilling you anytime they want or all the time, anyway?

The Influence of Fascism (2, Insightful)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868209)

Communist countries have for years been looking to incorporate what could be considered the best features of fascist governments, at least in their eyes.

In Fact, many governments since WWII and before have incorporated features of fascist and communist government into their structure, although this has been done on a much slower time table than a war or revolution. There is much in both of the philosophiea to attract the petty autocract, the aspiring master of men. And over the years, these have been incorporated into laws.

heck, for decades, you had nazis, for example, acting as advisor to many governments. The most benign of these was a character like Von Braun in the Space Program, former scientist of the V-2 program.

There were many from many fields who lived and breathed and believed the original fascist philosophy, and who continued on in their fields. Some areas would be more problematic than others. Jobs like farmers and dentisits would be one thing, probably benign. Business managers would be another. Law enforcement, lawyers, doctors, and mental health specialists yet another, because of the influence on society. The vast majority were never arrested or put on trial [haaretzdaily.com] .

The end result is that elements of these philosophies have been incorporated into laws around the world, through the influence of these, their sympathisers, and the children they raised, who probably did not know what the philosophy really meant, and absorbed the ideas under the guise of parental instruction.

and so the monitoring of private communications like email, while at the same time passing laws that make the majority of citizens criminals is commonplace.

As a Side Note: Heck you worry about Napster. Did you know that there is a whole online community of older women trading sewing patterns, sewing geeks who trade their files (sewing and knitting patterns) just like any other geeks do? and they are running into the same issues of trading that Napster did, but with the pattern publishers? a much smaller scale issue, of course. But involves people like the fabled Aunt Minnie. Go ahead, piss off grandma. see what happens ;-)

yet another example of an industry trying to achieve too much control over their customers, with all of the usual arguments in both directions.

Sewing Patterns link (2)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868256)

Just to provide a link on the Napsterish trading of Sewing patterns [entrepreneur.com] I mentioned above. The industry is not big but there may be a real issue. in one company pattern sales fell 40 percent, or $200,000, over three years (1997 - 2000).

Visions of grannies saying "the patterns want to be free" come to mind. ;-)

Re:Sewing Patterns link (1)

J'raxis (248192) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868293)

Quilting patterns. People fighting over quilting patterns. Is it only me, or does this read like some parody of the RIAAMP3 issues?

OT: BERNINA Sewing patterns (1)

KjetilK (186133) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868267)

Did you know that there is a whole online community of older women trading sewing patterns, sewing geeks who trade their files (sewing and knitting patterns) just like any other geeks do? and they are running into the same issues of trading that Napster did, but with the pattern publishers?

BTW, my girlfriend just bought this really advanced BERNINA machine (I think that's the one) [bernina.com] , which can connect to a computer's serial port. It needs a windoze OS, and there is never going to be a windoze OS on any of my machines (and except for this, she's cool about that).

Anybody know of any hacks that has been done on the BERNINA machines? It would be great if we could use it with Linux.

I suggested she drop BERNINA an e-mail asking for specs, and if they didn't give her the specs, start reverse engineering the thing. After all, she's the one who is an electronics student, I'm just an astronomer.

Dealing with those spammers from China (4, Funny)

Paul Wright (21223) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868224)


I get loads of spam from China, or advertising Chinese websites.

Looks like sending the postmaster a note congratulating him on joining the Falun Gong might work well.

The good side of brutal, repressive regimes (2, Interesting)

dgroskind (198819) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868231)

The article says: Foreign software makers must now guarantee in writing that their products do not contain hidden programs that would allow spying or hacking into Chinese computers.

This spec would be useful for everyone's networks. Vendors who are accepted for use in China could advertise they met "the Chinese standard" for security.

Already a delay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868232)

It already takes me 3 days to send email from South Carolina to ShenZhen (just outside of HongKong)..

this has to stop.. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868247)

You know what, I'm really getting sick of the bigotry that I see here on Slashdot. Anytime a story is posted based on our rights, department of justice, business, etc... there always has to be a flame aimed towards the United States of America. I'm assuming most of the readers here have mostly a leftist view on most political issues, and that's absolutely fine.

But what about the conservatives who read Slashdot? What about us? How do the people who read Slashdot with a right winged attitude feel about biased comments that contain negativity, and to some of us, a fallacy (sp?) towards our government, economy, policies, etc...

Comments as well (I'm posting this anonymously for a reason). Whenever I post a comment that will go against something I read in an article that will have a conservative view to it, maybe 75-80% of time time it will get modded down to -1 (52 posts, no flames, Karma 2, you do the math). Whatever happened to getting 2, 3, 4, everyone's side of the story?

The moderation system on slashdot is awful and wrong. Using an analogy of a hostile government. If I say anything remotely conservative, I will get modded down. Hmm... seems fair enough.

I know the editors will not read this comment, nor will anyone who read this care, but I hope that anyone who does read this post will maybe understand that sometimes you should take into consideration other people's ideas and thoughts and not just have a one track mind and think that whatever Slashdot rights is legitimacy

--Anon

What about PGP (et al.) (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868248)

If you just encrypt your email then screening would be harder.

Does the new law prevent the usage of PGP?

Re:What about PGP (et al.) (1)

J'raxis (248192) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868270)

At the very least, it would probably make the person using it look guilty. The kind of If youve got nothing to hide, why are you hiding it from us in the first place? kind of mentality.

Do you think that a country where the government monitors its people so much either does not (or will not, in the near future) have laws making encryption illegal? If you want to keep your people from doing whatever, it sort of helps to eliminate any methods they may have to cover their tracks.

spam spam spam (0)

ilovecheese (301274) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868252)

They could also start screening all the outbound mail for spam content. Until I blocked ports 25 and 53 to that country, I was getting bombed with it. :)

My company does this too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2868280)

My company regularly screens both inbound and outbound email for content.

The executives are immune (different rules for them), but for everyone else, we screen. In fact, there is a group of three individuals whose job it is to monitor the "quality" of email.

Privacy on the Internet (4, Interesting)

omnirealm (244599) | more than 12 years ago | (#2868306)

Like it or not, privacy is not a fundamental provision of the Consititution. If you place your messages in the public domain (which is what you do whenever you send an E-mail over the Internet), don't be surprised when it is screened, read, etc., by either the government or anyone who happens to own the router that your message passes through.

If you wish to have privacy, then you must send your communications over a private, secure channel, which the Internet is not. For example, the U.S. Postal Service is an entity that sends information securely; you can rest assured that your letters will never pass through the hands of a third party. But if you transmit information by posting a postcard on a bulletic board, it is free to be read by anyone who passes by, including government law enforcement officials.

You can attempt to make your messages sent through the public Internet "private" by encrypting the messages (which is perfectly legal and will continue to remain legal as long as our government is a free government). But that does not GUARANTEE privacy.

There is a general mistrust of government in general in this forum, which is sad. While I agree that the size and scope of government should be kept to a minimum, we should be able to trust the elected officials in a republican system, since we choose who our representatives will be. And we should certainly trust the executive branch (the ones actually screening the public E-mails) to do what they need to enforce the laws our elected representatives pass. If they aren't, then the people should vote accordingly for representatives that will fix the problem.

And despite what most people think, law enforcement officials are WAY to busy to concern themselves with the details of your private life. They are only concerned for the information that will help them protect the public from criminals.
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