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Debian NetBSD

CmdrTaco posted more than 12 years ago | from the thats-something-different dept.

BSD 346

bXTr writes "Interesting project over at SourceForge. Quoting from the website, 'Debian NetBSD is a port of the Debian Operating System to the NetBSD kernel. It is currently in an early stage of development and cannot currently be installed from scratch. Instead, a tarball of the current envionment is available and can be extracted into a handy directory on a NetBSD system.' Check out the reasons why they're doing it and some interesting commentary at DailyDaemonNews on this."

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346 comments

kaboom (1)

magicslax (532351) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871127)

Two open source minorities combine in a brilliant flash of light Because we can. .

Re:kaboom (3, Insightful)

erlenic (95003) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871139)

To me this kind of thing really shows the strength of the open source community. I'm sure we've all seen the flame wars that start here over the difference in the licenses, but in the end, we all have a common goal, share the source!

Re:kaboom (-1)

Carp Flounderson (542291) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871169)

The funniest thing about slashdot

1 - The Turd report
2 - Back by unpopular demand, the random number crapflooder
3 - goatse.cx
4 - goatse.cx up taco's motherfucking ass!
5 - page widening posts
6 - page widening posts up taco's motherfucking ass!
7 - Ralph "JewHater" Nader
8 - BSD is dying
9 - My experiences with open source software
10 - Cowboy Neal

Re:kaboom (-1)

Carp Flounderson (542291) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871178)

Big ups to all the sexy gals at PSU

Homage to My Hips
Lucille Clifton

these hips are big hips.
they need space to
move around in.
they don't fit into little
petty places. these hips
are free hips.
they don't like to be held back.
these hips have never been enslaved,
they go where they want to go
they do what they want to do.
these hips are mighty hips.
these hips are magic hips.
i have known them
to put a spell on a man and
spin him like a top!

Wrong again, sir (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871272)

_THIS_ [stileproject.com] is the real [tytherleigh.com] goatse [goatse.cx] girl [stileproject.com]

-Metrollica

Re:kaboom (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871245)

It's not so much a common goal, as it is compatable goals.

How about FreeBSD or OpenBSD ? (0)

mAIsE (548) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871197)

This is a great step but i would love a dselect and apt-get port for FreeBSD or OpenBSD, Two OS's that i have actually used.

Re:kaboom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871310)

I'd like to see something like this done with Darwin, and eventually OSX (they are different to an extent). This would allow a wider audiance to use OSX and still feel at home.

Just my $0.02

EDITORS: HURRY UP! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871372)

Quick editors, your most loved post [slashdot.org] is back up to +2, informative. Better go and censor^H^H^H^H^H bitchslap that motherfucker before anyone gets to read it.

Moderation Totals: Offtopic=189, Flamebait=4, Troll=20, Redundant=3, Insightful=49, Interesting=107, Informative=28, Funny=6, Overrated=8, Underrated=32, Total=446.

But I thought it was dying! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871128)

see subject

thanks

frist (-1, Offtopic)

La1d (415132) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871130)

poast? So it'll be yet ANOTHER thing that won't work on NetBSD. Why does pkgsrc suck so much, anyway?

Eh... why not? (1)

1155 (538047) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871132)

I don't see why not, we have lindows, and now deb-bsd, so it shouldn't be bad.

debian netbsd port (1)

ralian (127441) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871135)

I thought NetBSD's motto was to port to anything and everything with a CPU (viz. NetBSD Dreamcast), not to get another operating system ported to it ;)

Disclaimer: Yes, yes, I know what they did and it's not porting an OS. I just found it sort of funny, in a 'tables-have-been-turned' sort of way.

1979 (my favorite) (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871142)

shakedown 1979
cool kids never have the time
on a live wire
right up off the street
you and i should meet
junebug skipping like a stone
with the headlights pointed at the dawn
we were sure we'd never see an end to it all
and i don't even care
to shake these zipper blues
and we don't know
just where our bones will rest
to dust i guess
forgotten and absorbed
into the earth below
double cross the vacant and the bored
they're not sure just what we have in store
morphine city slippin' dues
down to see
that we don't even care
as restless as we are
we feel the pull
in the land of a thousand guilts
and poured cement
lamented and assured
to the lights and towns below
faster than the speed of sound
faster than we thought we'd go
beneath the sound of hope
justine never knew the rules
hung down with the freaks and the ghouls
no apologies ever need be made
i know you better than you fake it
to see that we don't even care
to shake these zipper blues
and we don't know
just where our bones will rest
to dust i guess
forgotten and absorbed
into the earth below
the street heats the urgency of now [written: sound]
as you can see there's no one around

take a poop in my butt (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871143)

NetBSD can suck some great shit if you say "first post!"

I would prefer the other way around (5, Informative)

horster (516139) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871144)

personally, I would like to see a BSD distro with ports and all, but with a linux kernel.

I just installed FreeBSD recently and have to say i was blown away with how professional the installer was, very simple and powerful - not to mention the ports system.
debian is nice, apt-get is a great program and the net install is awesome, but I can't say I have much love for dselect. I think debian shows the most promise of any linux distro right now, but in terms of polish, I have to give it to FreeBSD so far.

the kernel? my god man (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871161)

Why on earth why would you want a linux kernel in BSD userland? Do you really want a horribly broken VM system and every yahoo who can type hello world submitting patches? Thats why I like BSD. Theres a core group in charge of what goes and what stays. Who has the final say so in the linux kernel?

Re:the kernel? my god man (4, Informative)

tao (10867) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871207)

Why on earth why would you want a linux kernel in BSD userland? Do you really want a horribly broken VM system and every yahoo who can type hello world submitting patches? Thats why I like BSD. Theres a core group in charge of what goes and what stays. Who has the final say so in the linux kernel?

Ever heard of Linus Torvalds? Oh, and for the v2.4 kernel it's Marcelo Tosatti, for v2.2 it's Alan Cox. For v2.0, it's yours truly. It's hardly like anyone can get their code into the kernel. Anyone is free to submit patches though. That doesn't mean it'll get in.

As for the VM, yes, there have been problems (mostly with corner-cases, though), but v2.0.xx has a stable VM, v2.2.xx has a stable VM now, v2.4.xx has a stable, if somewhat unoptimal VM now, and v2.6 will hopefully have Rik van Riel's VM, which shares a lot of similarities with the VM from FreeBSD, but with some Linux-specific adaptments.

So please, don't spread FUD.

ROFL (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871233)

So you had to steal the FreeBSD VM code to fix your broken piece of shit? Good thinking!

Re:ROFL (1)

tao (10867) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871280)

Grow up. No, the code has not been stolen in any way (and for that matter, using it wouldn't be stealing anyway, because of the license... But that's beside the point.) Rik van Riel has been talking a lot with the FreeBSD VM-wizards, and looked at the FreeBSD code. He has then developed a VM of his own for the Linux-kernel.

Oh, and it's not like *BSD is totally free from influence from the Linux-kernel... Just face it, the point of open-source is to help eachother out.

Re:the kernel? my god man (1)

jelle (14827) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871270)

" Theres a core group in charge of what goes and what stays."

Actually, in Linux it's the same (f.e. Torvalds, Cox, Tosatti).

And with BSD carrying the BSD license, anybody can take the code and do anything to the code. And with the freedom the BSD license gives to everybody, the 'takers' don't even have to contribute anything back, not even credits.

Guess how we ended up with so many different *BSD versions? Yes, the BSD license, and the tight control of the people running some of the BSD projects have created multiple forks already.

Some people think that all that is good, others think that is bad, which is one of the reasons why there always will be BSD _and_ GNU.

Personally, I haven't made up my mind about that yet, but I use Linux because it has Debian and interesting developments such as the vservers patch (=jail++).

Debian for *BSD is a good thing, it will make it easier for Debian-users to give *BSD a try.

Re:the kernel? my god man (3, Insightful)

CheeseMunkie (469824) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871345)


" Theres a core group in charge of what goes and what stays."
Actually, in Linux it's the same (f.e. Torvalds, Cox, Tosatti).


This is true of the kernel, but the kernel is not the whole deal. One of the major problems with Linux is *that* it's every yahoo for himself -- Cox and Torvalds and a few others do the kernel, the glibc people are a different bunch, the X consortium [x.org] , the ISC [isc.org] , Apache Foundation [apache.org] , plus all those assorted little libraries, you know the type, it's a kinda neat library, but you've only found 1 app that needs it ... Everyone does their own thing and contributes it to the slushpot, but nobody controls the pot.


So, where the BSD team is some 10-20 people who can all get in a room and hash out details and come out with a coherent ports system, or a standard place to put software (apache goes in /var/www? Wtf patrick?), the Linux world is far too big to do that. Hell, we can't even document stuf coherently -- everything has its own man page, readme, manual, plus linux documentation project [linuxdoc.org] . Compare to FreeBSD's Handbook [freebsd.org] .


This is a weakness in the Linux system of cooperation. It's also a strength. Just as no one can take control of the whole thing and fix it, also nobody can break the whole thing. Even if Linux and Cox between them decided to sabotage Linux, they couldn't, whereas one guy with cvs commit privileges on cvsup.freebsd.org could give himself a root shell on every BSD box on the planet. (Okay I exaggerate -- he'd get caught, probably, but that's only because most of the people working on BSD are good guys.)

Re:I would prefer the other way around (1)

legend (26856) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871163)

What is wrong with the FreeBSD kernel?

I have been in no situation where the linux kernel is better than the FreeBSD kernel.

Re:I would prefer the other way around (2, Interesting)

horster (516139) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871187)

not so much what's wrong with the FreeBSD kernel as what's wrong with linux user land. I would like to see the FreeBSD installer & ports system, to begin with, exist on a linux distro.
I'm new to FreeBSD, so I might be wrong, but it seems like linux gets more of the new 'sexier' things. sambafs was on linux first, numa, IBM s/390 port - those kinds of things. not to mention binary support, which ok, there's linux emulation in FreeBSD, but it's easier to do it straight on linux.

Re:I would prefer the other way around (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871195)

Do YOU as a normal user need:

1. numa
2. mainframe support
3. whats binary support?

Would you rather have stable features that work or bleeding edge beta features that sometimes work?

Re:I would prefer the other way around (2, Informative)

horster (516139) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871218)

dude, chill out, I'm not dissing bsd!
binary support means I can run jdk1.3 natively without any emulation layer.
more drivers (like nvidia) are things that I do use on linux, and as for the rest, no they are not things that I need, but a possible reason why some one would choose linux over FreeBSD.

there is no need to start a flame fest here - both BSD and linux have their respective advantages.

Re:I would prefer the other way around (0)

King of the World (212739) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871194)

I have been in no situation where the linux kernel is better than the FreeBSD kernel.
Congratulations, but that's only a comment that you don't use SMP.

Re:I would prefer the other way around (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871204)

Yeah, Linux's SMP support is great. It's a shame that the VM subsystem is broken and crashes the kernel regularly. I had high hopes for Linux, too.

Re:I would prefer the other way around (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871283)

FreeBSD has SMP. It's true that Linux has better SMP, but that advantage is mitigated by its VM so, overall, FreeBSD is at least as performant as Linux. (My dual pentium system runs better and faster with FreeBSD, for example.)

But you know what? None of that matters. FreeBSD 5.0 is doing SMP right, not as graft on top of the usual UNIX semantics like Linux. You silly Linux advocates who like to make an issue out of SMP will be eating more crow than ever.

Face it, FreeBSD is a better operating system than Linux. It isnt hard to be better than Linux, every OS is better than Linux.

Re:I would prefer the other way around (-1, Troll)

asyncster (532683) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871350)

FreeBSD is just plain better. At least for now. Think about it for a minute, FreeBSD is a UNIX. It's essentielly been in development for nearly 20 years. You would expect it to be more stable and mature. Linux, on the other hand, has been around for what? 10 years? The rate at which linux is being developed and improved is much greater than FreeBSD. Few people write native applications for FreeBSD. They all write things for Linux and then the a BSD port is released. Linux has many advantages, such as the ability to strip a kernel down to almost nothing (512 k even). This is useful in embedded development. Then there is the whole money issue. FreeBSD seems to change hands all the time (Wind River, FreeBSD mall, etc...). Linux, on the other hand, is getting multi-billion dollar investments from IBM and other companies.

In a few years, the Linux kernel may even match the FreeBSD kernel in stability and whatnot. It is hard to say that, though, with the kick-ass work the BSD developers have been doing, and the recent conflicts between the Linux developers. We'll have to wait and see.

Re:I would prefer the other way around (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871238)

Does FreeBSD have anything like Video4Linux? (e.g. can I watch TV, capture, etc?)

Re:I would prefer the other way around (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871290)

My brooktree runs better on FreeBSD than sputtering Linux.

Re:I would prefer the other way around (3, Insightful)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871320)

What is wrong with the FreeBSD kernel?

FreeBSD doesn't have as many drivers for esoteric hardware. Not a technical advantage for Linux so much as a side effect of the greater market penetration.

But that's the way it is, nevertheless.

Gentoo linux (4, Informative)

metalhed77 (250273) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871198)

Gentoo Linux has that, www.gentoo.org , it uses a ports style system, i'm not sure if it's a direct port of ports, or their own deal.

Re:Gentoo linux (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871225)

I tried gentoo, perhaps someday it will be in the same ballpark as FreeBSD (or even Net/Open), but not now. The install is less than perfect, the portage system currently has very little to choose from. Also, there is no BSD-style separation of base and packages.

Its a good idea though, I also would love to see BSD-like distro based on a Linux kernel.

Try these (4, Informative)

Arker (91948) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871289)

Slackware, the daddy of em all - still alive and kicking. Very BSDish install, similar package handling, BSD init. No ports system last I checked :( but a very friendly system otherwise for compiling from source. http://www.slackware.com

Gentoo, a newcomer, to oversimplify a little the idea seems to be Slack+Ports. Haven't used it yet, heard some great things, sure looks promising. http://www.gentoo.org

Also another similar project that was just recently reported here - sorcerer linux. Don't know enough about it to differentiate it from gentoo, the ideas seem very similar unless I'm missing something (quite possible, haven't had the time to try either.) http://sorcerer.wox.org/

Re:Try these (1)

horster (516139) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871314)

yeah, right now slack is absolutely my favorite (posting from it on my laptop right now), but I am concerned with the one man show aspect of it, and the silence on the website.

the lack of a network install was too much of a pain for me last week so I just went ahead and installed freebsd (i lost my copy of slack 8.0 somewhere along the way).

Re:I would prefer the other way around (1)

ignorant_newbie (104175) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871344)

why a linux kernel? i mean, the FreeBSD kernel is older, more stable, offers Linux (and SCO) binary compatability... the only area it's slighty worse than Linux at is SMP, and on an Intel system this is pretty worthless anyway.

uhh (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871150)

Does that mean that *BSD is not dying?

Well... (1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871151)

At least Enron isn't the only group of people jumping off of sinking ships! About time Debian started moving to an operating system that doesn't have VM problems every other release. Go ahead! Mod this one down!

That is why Microsoft gets all the customer base. (-1, Flamebait)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871154)

Too many unix ports! For every 1 good unix-based OS, there will be 10 imitations wearing the audience thin across 10 different platforms.

There is seriously something wrong with the unix world if slashdot can have a post about a new unix distribution every other day.

Re:That is why Microsoft gets all the customer bas (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871176)

Its because no one can agree on anything. Everyone thinks they can do it better and proceed to try. The most promising design so far has been BeOS. A fast multimedia ready OS for the desktop with the multiuser shit stripped out. I don't need a unix timesharing system to listen to mp3s and use netscape.

Re:That is why Microsoft gets all the customer bas (1)

p24t (312611) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871193)

Some people truly don't understand the possibilities of things like porting. Or they have no idea what porting is. Porting, in case that is the case, is making software useable to many people on different operating systems and hardware configurations. Say you want to run a program, and you're running Solaris on a SPARC. But the person who originally wrote the program wrote it for Linux, on x86. Its useful, but not to you, since you don't have what it takes to use it. Now someone comes along and ports it to Solaris/SPARC. You can now use that program. Whee!

That is why Microsoft loses a customer base. Flexability.

Its also what's great about various *NIX distros. If there's something you don't like about, say Suse (just as an example, I liked Suse) - but like some other things about it. Now someone else comes along with a Suse-based distro, or just another distro altogether, which has more of what you want. Switch. Simple as that. Use whatever you want, however you want. But if you make changes, especially really cool ones, let other people use them, too. That's just being nice.

Flexability.

mirror (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871170)

for those to lazy to click the link here is what it says:

Why Debian NetBSD?
NetBSD runs on hardware unsupported by Linux. Porting Debian to the NetBSD kernel increases the number of platforms that can run a GNU-based operating system.
The Debian Hurd project demonstrates that Debian is not tied to one specific kernel. However, the Hurd kernel is still relatively immature - a Debian NetBSD system would be usable at a production level.
Lessons learned from the porting of Debian to NetBSD can be used in porting Debian to other kernels (such as FreeBSD and OpenBSD).
In contrast to projects like Fink or Debian w32, Debian NetBSD does not exist in order to provide extra software or a Unix-style environment to an existing OS (the *BSD ports trees are already comprehensive, and they unarguably provide a Unix-style environment). Instead, a user or administrator used to a more traditional Debian system should feel comfortable with a Debian NetBSD system immediately and competent in a relatively short period of time.
Not everybody likes the *BSD ports tree or the *BSD userland (this is a personal preference thing, rather than any sort of comment on quality). Linux distributions have been produced which provide *BSD style ports or a *BSD style userland for those who like the BSD user environment but also wish to use the Linux kernel - Debian NetBSD is the logical reverse of this, allowing people who like the GNU userland or a Linux-style packaging system to use the NetBSD kernel.
Because we can.

how is it GNU-based if it has a _BSD_ kernel? (1)

horster (516139) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871201)

is it just me or is it terribly pretentious to take the work of the NetBSD team, shove some debian/gnu stuff on top of it and call it a GNU-based operating system?

Re:how is it GNU-based if it has a _BSD_ kernel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871299)

If the userland is GNU, it's as much GNU-based as it is NetBSD-based.

Re:how is it GNU-based if it has a _BSD_ kernel? (2)

CatherineCornelius (543166) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871342)

is it just me or is it terribly pretentious to take the work of the NetBSD team, shove some debian/gnu stuff on top of it and call it a GNU-based operating system?

The beauty of the Debian approach is that sits a GNU system on top of a kernel. Source packages developed for Debian should build and run on any Debian system. The kernel is just a way of getting to the metal.

Re:how is it GNU-based if it has a _BSD_ kernel? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871347)

Oh quit your whining. NetBSD wouldn't run too well without this: http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/gnusrc/gnu/

I really don't see what your problem is. Don't worry, Debian-BSD won't suddenly make NetBSD as popular and mainstream as linux, you won't have to switch OSes again just yet...

No Complaining (0, Flamebait)

Aknaton (528294) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871180)

NetBSD is under a BSD license. Taking it and putting it under the GPL is no worst then a corporation taking it and making it closed source.

Plus, it should be interesting how it turns out.

Cooperation (3, Insightful)

awgy (315261) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871182)

To me, this is promising. I like to see cooperation between the Linux world and the *BSD world. Both have their advantages, and it'd be great if both would learn from each other more often. Perhaps this is an instance where some exchange of ideas could come about? Those responsible deserve a pat on the back.

Debian is not Linux (5, Informative)

CatherineCornelius (543166) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871265)

To me, this is promising. I like to see cooperation between the Linux world and the *BSD world.

Well I agree with you that it's promising, but do remember that the Debian project is not Linux, but a GNU operating system. There is Debian GNU Linux, and there is Debian GNU HURD, and now (apparently) Debian GNU BSD.

They're not cooperating... (1)

greygent (523713) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871317)

In fact, the BSD world seems largely annoyed at these folks.

I personally don't see the reasons for this project, other than political. However, this is the beauty of the freedom of the BSD license.

Re:They're not cooperating... (4, Insightful)

Carlos Laviola (127699) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871346)

Their motivation is quite clear to me: have another choice of a kernel that is already robust and better than the Linux kernel in certain areas, and have the nice, organized and easily upgradable Debian on top of it. Come on, building *everything* from source is so much more trouble than apt-get dist-upgrade. Think XFree86, Mozilla, etc.

Don't have to install from source... (2, Informative)

greygent (523713) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871375)

In the BSD world, we not only have the ports collection, we have the packages collection, too. So there's no need to compile everything from ports :-)

Re:Don't have to install from source... (2)

Carlos Laviola (127699) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871385)

But do you keep this as updated as the ports collection? Because Debian is the equivalent of running a bleeding-edge *BSD, I think (updated by CVS daily, rebuilding the whole system as often as possible).

Mirror of wonderful post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871190)

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31 December 1969

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Re:Mirror of wonderful post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871200)

Wow, so Microsoft is worrying about open source software like MySQL because of... um, could someone remind me?

Re:Mirror of wonderful post (1)

AnimeFreak (223792) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871206)

Buddy, the MySQL settings are probably set to a low queue limit and since the queue limit is full it is rejecting all incoming connections until a spot is availble.

I know this from experience. They probably have set it down to a lower level because the system can't handle a higher queue level.

Re:Mirror of wonderful post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871300)

Why do the Open Source people always have a lame excuse when their shit breaks/doesn't work?

Boss: "MySQL/Apache/Linux/(Your favorite OSS project here) just choked and threw up on itself."

Geeky OSS Admin: "Oh well that's because [yadda yadda yadda]. It's your fault. Jesus Christ, RTFM!!"

It's the snooty attitude and god damned elitism of OSS geeks that the IT/computing world can do without. For one thing I'd bet $100 that IIS + MsSQL (shit even Oracle) wouldn't have choked there. Clearly there was enough bandwidth, so don't blame it on that this time. Let's take a nice deep breath and say it together: MySQL fucking sucks. That's better. Anyone ever remember winamp.com always fucking being down cause of MySQL? Yeah. When will you OSS-heads realize that your free shit will never compare or scale to pay-software. Anyone who would even remotely consider using MySQL for any remotely high level traffic site is a fucking idiot. (Don't give me that "Slashdot runs MySQL" bullshit; they run a load balancing server farm the size of my garage...) Oh yeah, now I remember the phrase. "You get what you pay for."

For editing text files use Linux. For everything else there's Windows NT.

Re:Mirror of wonderful post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871369)

Wow, this troll is so inovative that I fell for it completely! You truly are a troll genius!

Re:Mirror of wonderful post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871319)

I shall share your praise of this "MySQL" to my Fortune 500 boss by telling him that it was highly recommended by some guy named "AnimeFreak."

Hot tip: Neither the words Anime nor Freak look good on a resume.

BSD + MySQL + PHP = Crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871205)

I don't see any SQL Server or C# errors there. Here comes .Net, something that works!

That is so exciting *yawn* (-1, Troll)

J.D. Hogg (545364) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871192)

which piece of news do you think is more insignificant ?

- Debian runs on NetBSD (two minority join forces, can produce larger minority)
- NetBSD can now runs Debian (dying Unix variant meets geek Linux distribution in dazzling display of nothing)

You don't understand. (1)

alfredo (18243) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871227)

Because we can is the spirit behind all great or not so great endeavors. You can never tell what might come out of it.

Re:That is so exciting *yawn* (1)

The FooMiester (466716) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871294)

which piece of news do you think is more insignificant ?

well, what's significant is that we can run NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on NetBSD on Debian on . . . .

segmentation fault. core dumped.

Awww, shucks. I was having fun

Re:That is so exciting *yawn* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871361)

ATTENTION: this user is attempting lame humor. Do NOT moderate this as funny, as it is lame.

Thank you,

The Slashdot Anti-Sitcom-Jokes Brigade

Since 1999 (2, Informative)

kenneth_martens (320269) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871202)

If you check out the mailing list archives [debian.org] , you can see the project has been ongoing (or at least discussed) since May 1999. It just until now to get it to the point where it actually sort of works.

NetBSD is dying (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871210)

It is now official - Netcraft has confirmed: *BSD is dying

Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

*BSD is the weakest link. Goodbye.

So how long... (1)

nrc (112633) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871236)


So how long before they declare that we have to start calling it GNU/NetBSD?

Re:So how long... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871304)

I don't know, but I can say it will happen before Richard Stallman takes a shower.

Ridiculous (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871262)

Debian is shit, NetBSD is crap. I'll use Red Hat AOL.

License (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871271)

How dare they try to force the GPL on us!

Let's re-license the linux kernel under BSD!

Fight the power!!!

kernel performance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871292)

Does anyone have any specs on the differences in kernel performance between NetBSD and Linux?

Mac OS X will unify the *BSDs (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871297)

Really, the convergence of Debian package management, GNU utils and NetBSD kernel isn't all that special and WILL NOT create a stronger, unified, easy-to-use UNIX variant.



Please, try Mac OS X; there's every advantage to it without all the traditional UNIX disadvantages.



  • Simplified installation - OS X installs easily
  • Easy-to-use interface - A yummy GUI interface that a first-time user can grok, with an excellent command shell for advanced users.
  • Powerful inexpensive yummy hardware - G4 PowerMacs trump x86 by a long margin and cost much less than underperforming but expensive SPARC, MIPS and the PeeCee user's Holy Grail of DEC Alpha, which was intended to run WinBlows from the beginning and is dying anyways.
  • Best design - look at the new iMac! Complete Apple Goodness from the small footprint to the sharp LCD display, all surrounding a powerful G4 processor.
  • Open Source, even though GNU zealots will not agree. Fellow BSD'ers will soon recognize the errors of their ways and join ranks with the Apple crowd.
  • Mac's ain't PeeCee's ;-)


My hope is that OS X will unify the BSDs into its proper place - at the top of the OS food chain. Many Free/Open/NetBSD users are coming to that conclusion as are many Linux users, beset with flaky kernels and horrible OS packaging.



Apple OS X and the *BSDs will be our answer to WinTel/Linux obsolescence.

Re:Mac OS X will unify the *BSDs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871362)

Just what the world needs. All the BSDs running as the only process on top of Mach.

What a great idea! Its the best of both worlds! All the bleeding edge performance of a microkernel, with all the fault isolation and modularity of a monolithic kernel!

Re:Mac OS X will unify the *BSDs (2)

CatherineCornelius (543166) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871387)

[MacOs X has] Powerful inexpensive yummy hardware - G4 PowerMacs trump x86 by a long margin and cost much less than underperforming but expensive SPARC, MIPS and the PeeCee user's Holy Grail of DEC Alpha, which was intended to run WinBlows from the beginning and is dying anyways.

I don't know where you get your hardware from, but it is my experience that the cheapest powerful kit around is Intel-compatible. I'd love one of these Mac boxes, but I just cannot afford one.

And as for the alpha, it was originally designed by Digital to run its VMS operating system, not Windows, which was at that time a 16-bit shell running on top of MS-DOS.

There is a huge need for something like this (2, Interesting)

mrbnsn (24209) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871302)

Right now if you need any sort of third-party application support (Oracle, etc.) or kernel threads (Java Hotspot, etc.) you need to run a Linux kernel.

If you don't need third party application support or kernel threads, however, FreeBSD has a much more solid, reliable kernel.

It would be excellent if you could maintain different machines with different kernels as needed, but have everything on top of that be Debian (both because Debian is excellent, and because supporting a heterogenous OS environment is a pain best avoided if possible).

Debian is an OS? (1, Offtopic)

CheeseMunkie (469824) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871306)

*blink*

I thought Debian was a distribution? That is, it's a kernel and assorted utilities. If we want to get right down to it, I always thought the kernel itself was the OS...

What makes a distribution is its installer and software management. That is, the main difference between SuSE and Debian and Red Hat is yast, apt, and rpm. So... They're porting apt to NetBSD? That's well and good, but is both unnecessary and not worth this fanfare.

Re:Debian is an OS? (2)

Carlos Laviola (127699) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871353)

Debian is independent of kernels. We have Debian Hurd already to prove that, and hopefully, we'll have Debian NetBSD, which will kick ass :-)

Re:Debian is an OS? (1)

someonehasmyname (465543) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871354)

no, the kernel is the kernel, and the os are all the apps debian wrote to interact with the kernel and the kernel. a windows nt machine uses microsoft's nt kernel, but it's still the windows os. all linux distros are their own os's with their own unique directory structure (debian puts rc files in "/etc/rc.d/rc1.d" whereas redhat thinks they should be in "/etc/rc1.d", etc.) netbsd, or more preferable freebsd (I had to plug it), supply their own kernel and userland apps that make up the os.

I don't like it (5, Insightful)

znu (31198) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871365)

The thing I've always really liked about the BSDs is that they're complete and separate systems that include everything from the kernel to the userland tools, all integrated by one team. Compare with the Linux world, where you have a bunch of different distros that many people pretend are all the same OS (in spite of the fact that file systems are arranged differently, boot sequences are different, configuration is different, package management is different, userland tools are often different, etc.) because they happen to use the same kernel. The BSD way has always seemed a lot cleaner to me. The idea of seeing a myriad of distros based on the BSD kernels really isn't one that I like. I believe it's a step in exactly the wrong direction. Open source Unix needs more standardization, not more fragmentation.

Re:I don't like it (1)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871383)

Ever take a look in the linux kernel source? There's a lot of code and drivers that came from bsd...

nice (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2871377)

nice

I support it as a server over debian linux (2, Troll)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 12 years ago | (#2871381)

Linux has some serious issues [slashdot.org] . I like the Freebsd development model better then linux thanks to all the issues with the 2.4 patches. My problem with FreeBSD is that its cripppled after the install is done. Hardly anything is configured. I feel like a kid stuck on a pogo stick when trying to do anything. For example under WindowMaker you need to put every item one by one to the x menu. No config menu's here. Also not even bash or frankly any shells besides the crippled bsh is installed by default. You need to edit all the files yourself assuming your unix literate. All just to learn it. That is crazy. Why? What a pain. Its not FreeBSD per say but unix in general that suffers from this. Linux breaks the mold. Unless you have 5 years expereince or a cs degree you can not really tune it or highly configure it. In Windows you can just point and click and all the items are in the start menu by default. There is an old saying. IF computers were airplaines the unix one would be the best. However you would need to assembly it yourself. I believe Linux took off because the distro's configure everything for you. Don't get me wrong when I say that BSD is a great server OS. I just hope debian *bsd will fix this which actually knowcked unix almost out of the workstation market. I have never used debian linux so I don't know how much is configured by default during installation. I just assume its better then the current netbsd.

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