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Scott Draeker Interview About Loki's Demise

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the this-too-shall-pass dept.

News 327

An Anonymous Coward writes: "News forge is running an interview With lokigames president Scott Draeker. Looks like the leaked email wasn't a hoax after all. A very sad day for Linux. AOL? Redhat? IBM? someone please help these guys."

cancel ×

327 comments

Scott Draker interview about CmdrTaco's faggotry.. (-1)

Trolligula (527461) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897511)

Perhaps the crime most feared and most under reported is that of
male on male rape, says Rob Malda in his new book Male on
Male Rape: The CmdrTaco syndrome.

Like most efforts in the incipient victim's rights movement, the
book and CmdrTaco's own career as coordinator of Slashdot's Rape
Education and Prevention Program got their genesis in someone's
own victimization and transformation as a male rape survivor. For
CmdrTaco, the events leading up to and surrounding his and many
other male rapes are rooted in homosexuality--the sexuality of
choice for Slashdot authors.

It started for CmdrTaco in the fall of 1989 when he and his friend
Hemos began their sophomore year at the Slashdot school for the
sexually impaired, sharing a dormitory room at Bradly Hall and
serving as President and Vice President of the Gay and Lesbian
Alliance.

As campus gay leaders they raised questions and initiated dialogue
on issues about which many men on the campus felt uncomfortable,
including all the men on the third floor of Bradly Hall.
As a result, they received anal penetrations, reach arounds,
offers to write for Slashdot, and a daily dirty sanchez from the
other men on their floor. To escape the hostility, Hemos
headed home for the weekend and CmdrTaco visited a gay bar.
CmdrTaco meets a man there who hours later would in CmdrTaco's
dormitory room would rape him. He describes dramatically how he
could not call for help because he loved it too much.

"A culture that encourages and condones sexual violence wielded as
a tool for the control and subordination of those with less power
in our society." Basically, CmdrTaco states that he, and other
flaming homosexuals use male rape as the leverage to gain control of
Slashdot's readers. Slashdot has always been pro-gay, but CmdrTaco
has turned the once "queers are people to" website into a man-sauce
guzzling festival of uninvited anal penetration and reach arounds.

What we actually know about male rape is very little. It is, as
JonKatz describes it, "something like a stack of delicious,
shit crusted pancakes that I can't wait to stick my tongue into!"

His is not the first book on the subject however. Cowboy Neal,
also of Slashdot fame wrote the first book in 1990, Male Rape:
Breaking the Silence on my Favorite Pastime.


CmdrTaco though traverses the 20 studies that have been conducted
in the past 30 years. These are the only studies that have
examined the issue in a non-institutionalized setting, such as
Slashdot. Here is what we do know, from the shards of information
CmdrTaco expertly and exclusively narrates.

* Male rapes constitute about five to 10 percent of all rapes.

* Male rapes account for 100% of all rapes in the Slashdot community.

* Most perpetrators self-identify as "uber geeks".

* Most offenders refer to themselves as a "CmdrTaco."

* Most offenders are Slashdot readers.

* Most offenders rape out of lust or passion or sexual desire.

* Most victims state that they are only trying to "root" a victim's "box."

* When documented at all, Slashdot authors had no preference to heterosexual or homosexual victims.

* Slashdot authors referred to these pack or gang rapings as "lan parties.".

* Stigma and shame are common responses from male rape victims.

* This is followed by the victim's interest in the Linux operating system.

* Contemplation of suicide is fairly common among male rape survivors.

* The most common form of post-male raping suicide attempts is forcing a huge member into the already violated "purple carnation" (Slashdot lingo for a penetrated anus).

Here [goatse.cx] is an example of some of CmdrTaco's brilliant research.

Haven't you heard??? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897549)

Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda caught in circle jerk--kills self

I just read this [projo.com] on a news site. It doesn't mention many details but says Slashdot's founder Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda [cmdrtaco.net] (AKA Stewart Denton) has been found dead. Murdered himself after being caught in a circle jerk [bastardgenres.com] scandal with fellow Slashdot editors (using aliases). [linux.com] Whether or not you were a fan of his openly gay attitude [geocities.com] and right wing political views [hitler.org] , you cannot deny his contributions to the alternative sexuality [altsex.org] community. As a memorial, he will be ass reamed [blackandgay.com] one final time before his pasty white body [chaelyndra.com] is burried. It is indeed a black day as he will be sadly missed [bigempire.com] by his former turd-burglars (for The Turd Report). [madblast.com] Truly a homo-geek icon.

-Metrollica

Re:Haven't you heard??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897803)

Moderation Totals: Offtopic=1, Troll=2, Total=3.

What is with these moderation totals?

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897515)

BIIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH

-Metrollica

Important Stuff:
Please try to keep posts on topic.

Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.

Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating
what has already been said.

Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.

Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be
moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your
threshold on the User Preferences Page)

Suck my balls (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897531)

Eat my feet!
Rape my ankle!
Jamie McCarthy is an assmaster!

Note: Jamie is a hypcorite!

Pretty bad economy (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897535)

NewsForge: What happens to Loki's employees? (There were about 10 before the latest news, Draeker says.) Have they all been laid off?

Draeker: We laid off our development and support staff last Friday. I understand at least one already has an employment offer elsewhere.


It used to be that programmers had to turn away jobs. Now of 10 with some real Linux programming skills, only one has a job offer.

Probably proves the old adage, "It's not what you know, but what you know about Windows programming."

Re:Pretty bad economy (-1)

The Turd Report (527733) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897575)

Now of 10 with some real Linux programming skills, only one has a job offer.
And that persons new 'job' is at the local BurgerKing.

Re:Pretty bad economy (1)

elmegil (12001) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897678)

Why is this insightful? Scott said "at least one" which is not the same thing as "only one".

Re:Pretty bad economy (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897861)

Since these guys all worked on porting from Windows to Linux, I don't think you can assume that they didn't know Windows programming. To port effectively you really have to know both fairly well. I imagine that all of them that want to will be employed somewhere pretty soon.

AOL, IBM, RH (2, Troll)

FileNotFound (85933) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897541)

Neither of these care.

And why should they? They're just interested in Linux as far as the server market.

Truth is that linux is a horrible gaming platform.
Most gamers just want to play games. They don't want to recompile the kernel to play. They want to put the disk in and click "play" and that it.

Thats why they buy consoles.

Re:AOL, IBM, RH (0, Redundant)

rpd10 (550879) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897640)

But isn't that what consoles are for?

Re:AOL, IBM, RH (1)

erik umenhofer (782) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897671)

Yes but most of us have computers all ready and don't want to spend money on another machine.

Re:AOL, IBM, RH (3, Interesting)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897716)

Why would they need to recompile the kernel?

If they do, I think the blame could go onto the distro providers. Hardware support starts there. If the drivers exist, they should be on that CD.

I'd like to see mandrake get into it. They make some stuff 'easy' already.

Thats why they buy consoles.
And windows, and macs...

There seems to be a huge PC game market, I don't think you got the memo. Not all PC games are click and play, many aren't. Linux or no linux.

We need a game distro, I elect mandrake.

Re:AOL, IBM, RH (3, Interesting)

PhotoGuy (189467) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897820)

The sad thing is, that with bootable linux CD's, they *could* do just this, just like a console. There's no reason games couldn't be designed with a known, working kernel, bootable on a CD. The main issue I could think of offhand is hardware compatability; a "Linux game box specification" (list of supported graphics cards, sound cards, etc., would address that).

Just a thought...

-me

Re:AOL, IBM, RH (1)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897857)

Truth is that linux is a horrible gaming platform.

It's actually underrated. It's where Windows was at before all the convergence that resulted from DirectX. That's still a few years behind, sure, but that's not to say that the platform itself is horrible.

Note to Slashdotters (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897546)

Do NOT keep posting "insightful" comments.. Slashdot plans to _charge_ users to access this forum in the near future. Why pay when we create the content! Screw them!

What did he expect? (-1)

The Turd Report (527733) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897551)

For Linux users to pay for something? Sheesh...

Wrong market (4, Insightful)

archnerd (450052) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897554)

I may be off base here, but it seems to me that Linux users want Linux games, not Linux ports of windows games. Yes, I know plenty of people who play Quake on Linux, but compare its popularity to say, nethack. My guess is that nethack, simple as it is, would be way ahead. Nethack is open source, which carries alot of weight with many Linux users, including me.

Re:Wrong market (3, Insightful)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897766)

I think you are right. There needs to be more 'nerd' games for linux.

Actually, I don't think that. But that is how your comment reads.

But once again... why do we need opensource games? We just need games.

If the games are open-source then anyone can basically rip them off. Open source is good for the GUI, server apps, and the kernel. Games are always going to be closed. At least to make some money they need to be.

Seems to me that is what keeps big game developers out of linux. There is no need to recompile a game. Give me a million reasons... I won't buy a one. If a game doesn't work, 9/10 times a fix is promptly released.

Game developers are in it for the money. They don't make that money however on support like server markets etc.

Re:Wrong market (3, Insightful)

Dwonis (52652) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897998)

But once again... why do we need opensource games? We just need games. If the games are open-source then anyone can basically rip them off. Open source is good for the GUI, server apps, and the kernel. Games are always going to be closed. At least to make some money they need to be.

We need games where the game engine is open-source, but the art isn't. Hell, even a Minix-style license would be fine (i.e. you pay for the game, but you get non-redistributable source with it, but you can distribute patches).

I don't find it too difficult to imagine a constantly evolving open-source game engine, where various companies periodically grab a version of the engine and sell art for it. This is where QuakeForge [quakeforge.net] might be in the future.

Re:Wrong market (3, Insightful)

Spankophile (78098) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897779)

> Nethack is open source, which carries alot of weight with many Linux users

Explain to me again how to build a company around that? Oh right, by providing support... ugh...

Modding is simply a difference of opinion.

what about original games for linux (1)

EnderWiggnz (39214) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897796)

not some tired knock-off of a clone of a racer or whatever.

something new.

something different.

something only available on linux :-)

give people a *reason* to want to play games on linux instead of windows... a reason better than ... Its Linux!!!

Re:Wrong market (1)

nusuth (520833) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897836)

This is not meant as a troll but take it what you will. I personally would prefer linux games that do not lock my keyboard and mouse after kde switches the display to something else and That plays sounds when an event that should produce a sound happens, not a few seconds after that.

Re:Wrong market (3, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897992)

  • My guess is that nethack, simple as it is, would be way ahead. Nethack is open source, which carries alot of weight with many Linux users, including me.


Look deep into your heart, and tell us honestly: how much would you pay for nethack-in-a-box? How much is that box worth to you?

mfw's (-1)

mackga (990) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897567)

motherfucking whores. yeah, baby! you all suck hyena dick and lick shit-encased assholes!

How sad :-( (2)

Chloe Dubois (541434) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897571)

A moment of silence for their hard working.

It is sad, I still frequently am playing my copy of Tribes 2. Hopefully someone will take the Loki's place.

So long Loki, and thanks for Heroes III (3, Interesting)

Kiwi (5214) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897577)

I would like to say that, of all of the games that Loki ported to Linux,
the one that was good enough for me to use a Windows computer to play
before Loki's port was Heroes of Might and Magic III. As it turns out,
the games in the Heroes series were the only games that I ever considered
good enough to use Windows to play. Loki's port of Heroes III meant that
I can now get all of my gaming needs met without having to dual boot;
significant when my computer only has a 3 gig hard disk.

This game wastes hours of my time on my Linux laptop, and hours of my
friend's time when we play hotseat together. The game still has hours of
my time to waste, since I have not yet finished the campaigns; and, even
after finishing the campaigns, there are the single senerio maps and, of
course, the third party maps over at astral wizards.

I only have a small number of dissapointments with the Linux version of
Heroes III. One is that Loki never finished the map editor; one still
needs to use Windows to make a decent Heroes III map. The other is that
the expansion packs were never (and never will be, now) ported to Linux;
while Loki wanted to do it, New World Computing would not give them the
source code to make it possible. And, finally, I am dissapointed that
Loki will not be around when Heroes 4 gets released; Heroes III without
the expansion packs is all the Linux community gets of the excellent
Heroes series.

I am not a hard core gamer; but I am an open source developer who
appreciates having some good games on Linux to blow off steam after
dealing with a frustrating programming problem. Loki has made enough
games to meet this need. I hope I do not offend anyone by saying that
people who feel that Linux does not have enough games need to find other
things to do with their time than play video games.

Now, to the people at Loki, I wish them the utmost of luck.

And, who knows, maybe one of the other Linux game publishers will port
Heroes IV to Linux.

- Sam

Re:So long Loki, and thanks for Heroes III (1)

Pointed Stick (304605) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898025)

"I hope I do not offend anyone by saying that people who feel that Linux does not have enough games need to find other things to do with their time than play video games."

Not to offend in return, but who are you to judge what I do with my free time? If you really want to support Linux you'll drop the attitude of "if it can't be done on Linux, it's not worth doing anyway". That's sour grapes if ever I've heard it.

What about IP concerns? (3, Insightful)

Mr. Uptime (545980) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897578)

IANAL, but my experience as a software developer has made me very suspicious of Draeker's quote:

...after we bring our operations to a halt in an orderly fashion, we will make the source code to all of our products publicly available under the GPL.

Since Loki only worked on ports of existing games and didn't (as far as I have heard) purchase full rights to the existing games' source code, what gives them the legal right to release the original authors' code into the public domain? Are they just doing it because there's nobody left to sue?

Any way you look at it, though, it will definitely be a victory to open source to have such a substantial amount of game source code out there now.

Mr. Uptime

Re:What about IP concerns? (3, Informative)

MisterBlister (539957) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897606)

They are talking about support products..Namely the Loki installer, I'd guess since the majority of Loki's APIs and such are already Open (SDL, OpenAL). Of course they can't release the source to the games they ported, but they can release a lot of the Linux-specific framework they set up to port those games in the first place.

Re:What about IP concerns? (4, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897963)

The loki installer is the absolute best installer available for linux, and will thrust linux apps into the "one click install" realm for the newbies and appliance users. This has been sorely and desperately needed for years and years for linux. Imagine being able to download and click on abiword.run and it installs the program, makes the modifications to the xfree86-4 to fix the fonts problem, and download and install (or just install) the added extra required libs.

Or make KDE one click installable, or upgradeable.

Thanks Loki for giving. I do know that I will be buying up what I can, as I do have 2 youngster linux newbies that would love mindrover simcity, etc..

Re:What about IP concerns? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897981)

The installer, updater, demo launcher, etc. are all already GPL'd. http://cvs.lokigames.com [lokigames.com] The installer is called 'setup', the updater is 'updateit', and the rest are pretty obvious.

Re:What about IP concerns? (1)

broody (171983) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897729)

Are you reading the same article I am? The one I read had no such 'quote'.

Re:What about IP concerns? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897782)

If you didn't have a relatively low id, I would say "welcome to slashdot."

Re:What about IP concerns? (1)

Bill Currie (487) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897886)

you call that low?

You want games? (3, Insightful)

dada21 (163177) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897587)

Then support capitalism. "Open Source" and beerware won't work unless there is commercial and profitable incentive for it to work.

Someone needs to figure out how to make the people happy AND make a profit. This communistic ideal is never going to work properly if you want these companies to last... Making a game is not a "group study," its a tough, 60 hour a week, full-time job. And people need to get paid.

Maybe we need "Open Source Money Pools" where you can vote what kind of game you want. I'm sure that'll happen.

Re:You want games? (2, Insightful)

Tyreth (523822) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897832)

Producing GPL software such as MySQL, and GNU/Linux in general, can be profitable. The company that produces the product can provide support and consultation for the product and make a revenue off that. All these tools are a means to an end - you use a MySQL database to make your data accessable to the company. You use gcc to create programs.

Games have no such luxury. They are the end product. There is very little to be made off support, certainly not enough to support the development of games like QuakeIII. Games have to make their revenue off initial sales.

Linux has proven dominant in the server market and it is a brilliant star there. Many have now set their eyes on the desktop, and all signs [newsforge.com] seem to indicate that this is a viable dream. I see linux gaming as the target after the desktop - once we have a serious control of the desktop market, Linux games will become a serious issue. Until then, however, the fight for Linux games will be difficult, as many others are pointing out. Loki did a great job, and many of us love their games, and it's sad to see them go. But the fight's not over yet.

Re:You want games? (2)

treke (62626) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897893)

Quake III is a bad example. Most of IDs money probably omes from selling and supporting their engines to other companies that want to write games. Not that the general idea of the post is wrong :)

Re:You want games? (1)

MindStalker (22827) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897916)

Hu? Loki sold their games as closed source products, for linux.

Why? (5, Insightful)

SlashChick (544252) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897597)

"AOL?, Redhat?, IBM? someone please help these guys."

Why? You seem to be missing the main point of Loki's business model. Loki took games that the game developers considered unprofitable to port to Linux and paid royalties to these game developers to port these games to Linux.

Now, with Loki having gone out of business, it has proven the developers' original point: Linux gaming is just not economically profitable. Heck, even John Carmack [slashdot.org] says (and I quote): "[T]he linux market is not viable for game developers to pursue. Linux ports will be done out of good will, not profit motives."

The harsh reality is that no one is going to bail Loki out. At this point, Linux games remain unprofitable. As long as gamers have good 3D support and decently easy game setup in Windows, they will continue to use Windows. My advice is to move on and not pursue the issue until Linux gets more desktop market share.

Re:Why? (3, Insightful)

DA_MAN_DA_MYTH (182037) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897682)

Why? You seem to be missing the main point of Loki's business model.

Read the interview. The porting was to create a market, a need for Linux gaming. The eventual goal was to create Linux games, not ports. Draeker gives great examples in how even with the Mac, most games are just ported from Windows, which Mac isn't exactly a large market either for gamers.

Re:Why? (4, Insightful)

dstone (191334) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897891)

The porting was to create a market, a need for Linux gaming.

OMFG, that philosophy reeks of soul-less corporate product shovelling! "There's not really any current need or market for our products, so we'll try to create one!" Personally, I love Linux for programming, administration, deploy-and-forget Oracle installs, etc., but there's clearly just no desire amongst gamers to switch from Windows.

Re:Why? (2)

Jack_of_Hearts (135367) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898011)

You can't create a market for Linux gaming without having a *lot* of people actually using linux. Unlike what reading /. would lead you to believe, there just aren't that many people who use Linux as their primary OS, and even if they do, they usually have a Windows partition on there for playing games. No one with a Win partition laying around is going to buy a game for Linux(except perhaps the mindless zealots) when they can get the same thing for Windows , which - let's be real - is a FAR superior gaming platform. So, that leaves us with the very, very small percentage of Linux only users to sell to, and most of those don't play games anyway.

This company failed because of a stupid business model. There is no market for Linux games and probably never will be. Keep that Windows partition, folks, you're going to need it.

Re:Why? (2, Insightful)

pigeonhed (137303) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897746)

I could not more fully agree. Wait to make Linux Gaming a must have. The corporate world is more ripe for Linux. Gamers needs tend to be changing and fickle. The corporate world tends to want the same thing year in year out. How much has word processing really changed in the last five years?. Also the largest advantage to Linux I have found is the ability to maximize old hardware. Gamers generally upgrade and jump at the whim of Nvidia and ATI.

The desktop market would add so much more credibility in the marketplace too. I am not saying to hell with gamers, just learn to crawl before you walk.

No Mac gaming companies? (5, Informative)

Dephex Twin (416238) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897599)

If you want a perfect example of the difference, just look at Mac gaming. There are many games available for the Mac put out by several great Mac porting companies. But no one develops new games for the Mac.
What about Ambrosia Software [ambrosiasw.com] ?

mark

Re:No Mac gaming companies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897667)


Ambrosia's been cranking out garbage ever since Ben Spees left the company. So they don't count.

Re:No Mac gaming companies? (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897906)

...and Bungie, for a while, and probably some others.

Still, Draeker's correct if you look at the big picture but I don't follow his logic. The Mac gaming scene is a cut-down version of what's available for PC, and if your primary concern is games, by all means you should run Windows. But there _is_ a profitable Mac gaming market, and it's good enough that most users who want to use MacOS because of its strengths don't need to avoid the platform because of the lack of games.

I don't get the idea of ridiculing a profitable , if unprestigious, business model in favor of a grandiose scheme for world domination. But then I'm not in the Linux desktop software business.

Re:No Mac gaming companies? (2, Informative)

beerits (87148) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897922)

Or Pangeasoft [pangeasoft.net]

Bankruptcy in August 2001 (3, Insightful)

kenneth_martens (320269) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897603)

The fact that Loki is going under shouldn't be a surprise: they filed for bankruptcy in August of 2001, according to this Register article. [theregister.co.uk]

Anyway, this might be a good opportunity to buy some Loki releases cheap. However, according to the article, we shouldn't expect discounts right away. Scott Draeker said "I don't think there will be any huge discounts right away -- maybe in six months..."

I have a hard time being upset about this... (5, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897612)

I mean, it's very sad for the Linux desktop people, but I've always felt that Linux's real strength was as a low-midrange server 0S, which is what I use it for (quite profitably) both at work and at home.

Mostly, when I hear news like this, I want to tell people 'right tool for the right job'. Right now, the right tool for gaming is Windows. I wish it weren't so, but I also wish that the cheapest place to buy quality hand-tools wasn't Sears Roebuck.

Until the tools change... and this means an infrastructure change to Linux like any of the Wine-focused distros are harping... Windows will continue to be the best platform for games, just as MacOS continues to be the best platform for many multimedia tasks.

Rather than bemoaning YALCB (Yet Another Linux Company Bankruptcy...) contribute to projects like WINE and LindowsOS. Also, Linux GUI's and apps have all gone well past the point where they should be spending as much time on usability and compatibility as they do on technology development and application power:

Example: One of the complaints I hear most frequently from Windows users who switch over to a big name distro like Mandrake or RedHat complain about the speed of Gnome or KDE up against Windows GUI. The speed hit can be explained and fixed through several settings, program switches, and even kernel optimizations, but if I'm a Joe-Sixpack who doesn't wan't to support Microsoft, but sees this behavior and can't fix it easily, then I'm probably going to stay with Windows.

If you want Linux to be a gaming OS, it has to be just as easy to use and configure for everyone as the other gaming OS.

Re:I have a hard time being upset about this... (2)

debrain (29228) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897709)

Another target is transgaming.com and WineX where you can subscribe to their service and vote for the next issue that they address. In this way you can vote with your money, influence the future of Linux gaming in a non-technical way, and provide sure support for gaming in Linux through, in the least, emulation of the de facto standard, Windows.

It is an interesting experiment, be it feasable or no.

Re: The focus should still be on mass adoption. (3, Insightful)

Self-Important (460103) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897819)

>Windows will continue to be the best platform >for games, just as MacOS continues to be the >best platform for many multimedia tasks.

I hate to mince words here, but dig this: Some might argue that *BeOS* is the best platform for many multimedia tasks. But it's gone the way of the dinosaur because almost *nobody* used it in that manner, regardless of how well designed it was.

Likewise, I would argue that *Linux* is the best platform for gaming...if you're ready to cope with a limited selection of games. I won't bore you with FPS benchmarks, but Linux (3rd party drivers and all) has evolved to a point where it can spank Windows 2000 and XP on a regular basis every time a part-time gamer wants to turn that badass mail server in the back room into a temporary gaming box. The file system is faster and more efficient. A user can easily give any game close-to-realtime priority if fragging a friend is foremost on her/his mind, picking up 5-10 extra frames per second in the process...

My point is that Windows is *not* a superior gaming platform compared to Linux, just that it is far better supported by game developers and hardware manufacturers alike. Until that changes, we will all find ourselves downloading the new DirectX version 37.

-------
I have no signature.

Re:I have a hard time being upset about this... (3, Interesting)

TheMeld (13880) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897842)

Mostly, when I hear news like this, I want to tell people 'right tool for the right job'. Right now, the right tool for gaming is Windows. I wish it weren't so, but I also wish that the cheapest place to buy quality hand-tools wasn't Sears Roebuck.

While I'm a strong proponent of the right tool right job mentality, I'm also well aware of the chicken and egg problem. If nobody tries to push linux into being a gaming platform, it will never become one.

And lets face it, while hackers might be good at developing fun games, they're usually not good at developing ones with a lot of artwork. Text based games aren't groundbreakers any more and graphic artists don't often want to work for free, from what I've seen. Yes, they could be like lots of us open source give it away programmers, but it is everyone's right to ask for compensation for their work.

So, the upshot of this, as I see it, is that if you want linux to become a gaming platform, you need commercial entities that are pushing it. Like any new technology and market, it will be small and unpopular for a while. Once it gains critical mass, things won't be so tight. Until then, we need companies like Loki that combine money with an overall good faith effort to develop the market and technology.

While I don't really give a damn about videogames, I know that the more games you can play on linux, the more people will use linux, and all users of linux benefit, at least indirectly, from an increased user base.

And as far as things like Wine go, yes, they're neat, and are a useful interim solution, but Wine will always be slower than running the software natively in Windows by the very nature of how it works and what it is. You don't tend to run servers and other intensive processes in emulation, why should you run games, which will often chew up all the resources they can to run as well as possible?

Re:I have a hard time being upset about this... (2)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897929)

I think the biggest roadblock is Linux itself. Linux needs to be able to handle multimedia out of the box, for almost any soundcard/network card/video card. Until this happens, what's the point of pushing Linux as a gaming OS? Don't put the cart before the horse..

I believe it was mentioned awhile back that Amiga was working on a multimedia layer that could be grafted to Linux systems. Whether or not this happened, it's still a good idea. With this MM layer, you could write truly hardware independent games, and the only user requirement would be that they have this layer installed.

Re:I have a hard time being upset about this... (1)

TheMeld (13880) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898013)

Linux needs to be able to handle multimedia out of the box, for almost any soundcard/network card/video card. Until this happens, what's the point of pushing Linux as a gaming OS? Don't put the cart before the horse.

Getting on the road usually happens faster if you're training the horse at the same time as you build the cart :) I agree that there are hardware support problems, but we can work on the hardware-independent stuff using the hardware that is supported at the same time as working on the support for new hardware.

Good night everybody, from a true dick! (-1)

CmderTaco (533794) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897618)

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Re:Good night everybody, from a true dick! (-1)

Troll4Jesus (552528) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897704)

Meep! Jesus may love you, but everyone else thinks you're a dick.

How much money did Draeker personally get??? (0, Troll)

Dr.Dubious DDQ (11968) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897634)

With reports of employees in the past not getting paid and such, I have to wonder about Loki's financial problems in light of this quote:

"Draeker: My immediate plans are to take a break and recharge my batteries. After that I'll start looking at different opportunities. "

Translation - "I don't need to go look for work right away. I have plenty of money for a while."...or am I misinterpreting that?

Re:How much money did Draeker personally get??? (1)

QuickFox (311231) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897725)

"I have plenty of money for a while."...or am I misinterpreting that?

I have no idea how much he got, but in hard times everyone should save some backup money. If it's difficult, well, eat less, drink water instead of beer or cola, use the same clothes longer, whatever. Just make sure you save some backup money.

Anything else is to invite disaster.

The Amazing MegaMod Thread [slashdot.org] led to this discussion with the editors [slashdot.org] initiated by CmdrTaco.

Re:How much money did Draeker personally get??? (1)

Spankophile (78098) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897828)

> Translation - "I don't need to go look for work right away. I have plenty of money for a while."...or am I misinterpreting that?

I'd say it's more like: "It was an uphill battle, and despite trying really hard, we failed. Time to find something that'll make money."

Dont shed too many tears for Draeker (2)

Troodon (213660) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898017)

Yes its a shame that this business folded; for the acceptance of linux as a viable gaming market and such potential growth across desktops etc; for those talented programmers who worked for the company; and those - myself included - whom have enjoyed their games.

However Draeker (an ex Apple lawyer) apparently had some rather novel business practices, which (at least when things began to get awkward) allegedly seemed to involve manipulating a rather gullible employee into bankrolling the company. Before any more moderators get too slap happy on the parent post please consider this:

Loki Speaks up on Chapter 11 [slashdot.org]
Specifically this and related threads: More informative media on Loki [slashdot.org]

Which highlights this:
Founder, Creditors Differ as to Loki's Future Course [linuxtoday.com]

Mac Gaming Companies... (0, Redundant)

AtaruMoroboshi (522293) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897644)


Uh, there are a few mac only gaming companies, and many games for the Mac that are great and mac-like...

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/news/ for example.

Remember that Bungie was once a Macintosh only game company. Also did The Fool's Errand ever make it to PC? That game was amazing...

Re:Mac Gaming Companies... (2)

epepke (462220) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897773)

I don't think The Fool's Errand ever made it to the PC. Neither did System's Twilight

As far as extant Mac companies, I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Freeverse. Most of what they've produced is card games, but they've been branching out into arcade and strategy games as well. Also, I don't know too many other game companies with a character that was used on a Blockbuster commercial.

Also remember that Myst was originally not only Mac only by Hypercard, and, what was it, Quake 3 arena came out on beta first for the Mac just a couple of years ago?

Just a second.. (1, Troll)

samurphy21 (193736) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897659)

Why is it "linux people" whine and moan about companies like AOL and IBM and their evil, incompetant ways, but yet run to them when a favorite company is in trouble. I'd wager when AOL took over Mirabilis, "linux people" were among the voice of the outraged. This article has the ring of hypocrisy to me.

Re:Just a second.. (2, Funny)

blank (1140) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897935)

are you stunned that there might be "hypocrisy" here? you must be new around here.

Re:Just a second.. (3, Insightful)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897953)

When's the last time you saw a linux user whining about IBM? They've been betting their future on linux if you haven't noticed.

Why should people be surprised? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897664)

Linux companies going under is a fundamental law of nature, like E = mc^2, etc. Nothing will change that!

Loki discounts. (2, Informative)

PrimeNumber (136578) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897670)

Draeker: We've been working with our resellers to make sure they have adequate supplies of products and anticipate they will continue selling Loki products. I don't think there will be any huge discounts right away -- maybe in six months they'll discount whatever is left.

I think he is mistaken on this one. I bought Loki Heretic II today for $5.00 at Microcenter.

Re:Loki discounts. (2)

cymen (8178) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898000)

BestBuy supposedly has Quake III for Linux onsale for $9.99. Haven't gone to get a copy yet (I was a quake 2 addict but I never tried quake 3 after the betas).

Re:Loki discounts. (2)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898029)

I think he was referring to *their* prices, not retailers cleaning their shelves.

Full text of article/interview (1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897726)

posted anonymoosely so i don't whore for karma:

Loki's Draeker: If I had to do it over, I'd create Linux native games

- By Grant Gross -
The news of Loki Entertainment Software's demise came late Wednesday in the form of a leaked memo to resellers. In the memo, company president Scott Draeker explained that the company was shutting down operations January 31, and stopping end-user support for its games immediately, after three years of being the most high-profile Linux gaming company.

The announcement didn't come as a complete surprise to the Linux gaming community -- Loki had filed for bankruptcy in August 2001, but Draeker said then he was optimistic the company was in business "for the long haul."
Loki continued to release new Linux ports of popular Windows games, even after the bankruptcy filing, shipping Kohan and Postal Plus between late August and mid-October. Loki also ported games such as Tribes 2, Alpha Centauri, Quake III Arena, and SimCity 3000 during its lifetime, but the main criticism of the company was that the Linux ports often appeared many months after the Windows versions.

Draeker responded to questions from NewsForge Thursday in what he says will be the only interview about Loki's closing. We asked him about what went wrong at Loki, his future, and Loki's competition from efforts such as TransGaming Technology's three-month-old effort to use WineX to allow Windows games to run on Linux.

NewsForge: When did you decide it wasn't working? You seemed hopeful after the bankruptcy filing that things would work out.

Draeker: Based on monthly sales figures when we filed, we had every reason to believe the reorganization would be successful. What happened is those sales fell off dramatically over the holidays. With lower-than-expected revenues we were digging a hole each month.

NewsForge: What do you think went wrong?

Draeker: If we had come into 2001 in better shape, we could have ridden out the slow months and done well going forward.

NewsForge: What happens to the games? Does another company get the rights to distribute your games? Some of NewsForge's people want to know if you'll be selling them off for cheap? :-)

Draeker: We've been working with our resellers to make sure they have adequate supplies of products and anticipate they will continue selling Loki products. I don't think there will be any huge discounts right away -- maybe in six months they'll discount whatever is left.

NewsForge: What's next for you personally?

Draeker: My immediate plans are to take a break and recharge my batteries. After that I'll start looking at different opportunities.

NewsForge: What happens to Loki's employees? (There were about 10 before the latest news, Draeker says.) Have they all been laid off?

Draeker: We laid off our development and support staff last Friday. I understand at least one already has an employment offer elsewhere.

NewsForge: How are you feeling about this big change in your life?

Draeker: Relieved! We did everything humanly possible to make this work. It was hard to make the decision to shut down. It was hard to lay people off. But it was the right thing to do. And I'm relieved that it's over and that all of us can start focusing on The Next Big Thing.

Loki has been a great experience and the Linux community is great. Starting Loki will always be one of the proudest moments of my life.

NewsForge: What happens to your public CVS repository and the projects it hosts?

Draeker: We'd like to find someone to continue hosting it.

NewsForge: How do you feel about the future of Linux gaming? Do you think there's enough of a market for a company to port Windows games to Linux?

Draeker: It's problematic. After three years I know it can be done. The market is there. But it's also very challenging. We did it out of conviction, which is why we lasted as long as we did.

NewsForge: How about original games native to Linux?

Draeker: If I were going to start a new Linux game company tomorrow that's what I would do.

The idea with Loki was never to create a thriving Linux porting business. We wanted to create a Linux gaming industry. If you want a perfect example of the difference, just look at Mac gaming. There are many games available for the Mac put out by several great Mac porting companies. But no one develops new games for the Mac. As a result Mac gaming is always a second cousin to Windows gaming. Games come out after the Windows versions do. They look and feel like Windows games, not Mac games. And there's nothing you can play on a Mac that you can't also play on Windows.

We saw porting as a transitional stage. By porting games we were able to develop the software infrastructure needed for gaming on Linux. We were also able to prove that a market for Linux games exists. The next step would have been to use what we had created to start making original games for Linux. That has always been our ultimate goal -- we wanted Linux to have its own unique, compelling games. Think how many people would be running Linux on their desktop if Diablo had come out for Linux six months before Windows!

NewsForge: Or how about the TransGaming model of using WineX?

Draeker: The arrival of TransGaming to me is the clearest indication that Loki failed to jump-start a Linux gaming industry as we'd hoped, because TransGaming has nothing to do with Linux games. Their message to game developers is: "Use DirectX and develop for Windows. We'll help you sell your Windows products to Linux users."

TransGaming's strategy is the same one Corel used in its Linux applications business. In the end I don't think they'll be any more successful than Corel was.

NewsForge: What advice would you give to anyone who wants to start a Linux gaming company?

Draeker: Cut your teeth in the established gaming industry first. If you can successfully complete a title there then you have a shot at doing it for Linux.

NewsForge: What happens to the Nokia Media Terminal project (in which Loki games were to be distributed for the Nokia hardware)? Does that move forward without Loki?

Draeker: I don't think this affects the Media Terminal at all. If it did then Nokia would have bailed us out.

Re:Full text of article/interview (0, Offtopic)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897865)

What happened is those sales fell off dramatically over the holidays.
I wonder if these guys were yet another economic victim of 9/11?

OpenAL.... (1)

ChaseTec (447725) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897745)

I wonder is creative will do anything with OpenAL [openal.org] ....

Possible new business for these guys... (2, Interesting)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897753)

I'm assuming these guys are experts in porting, right? If they could just take some of their experience and translate it into enterprise software porting instead of games porting (read, go from an expensive proprietary system to a free one), they could probably earn their weight in gold. Even if the software itself is different, I'm sure a lot of the problem-solving experience and testing ability and intuition and insight would probably come in handy...

Re:Possible new business for these guys... (1)

bshuttleworth (178787) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897843)

There is a subtle difference: that's like saying "oracle write good apps, right, why don't they just run off a cool office suite".

The problem is that the problems are completely different - they have expertise in translating DirectX code into SDL/X and OpenGL. That is a totally different story to working out how to move Enterprise onto Gtk/Qt/Motif/Your-flamewar-riddled-Toolkit-here.

The Games? (2)

The Great Wakka (319389) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897759)

What's going to happen to those games that they've developed? Surely, as these games are propritary, etc, they're not going to be GPLed, which is what Loki would do if they owned the games. Does this mean that people will not be able to buy the games anymore? Or is some large game company going to snatch the games up and continue support + sales of the existing games? I'd hate to see such gems of modern gaming as Tribes 2 and Kohan become unavalible for the Linux platform suddenly.

Re:The Games? (3, Insightful)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898010)

I'd hate to see such gems of modern gaming as Tribes 2 and Kohan become unavalible for the Linux platform suddenly.

Well, that's exactly what's going to happen.

The same could have been said for Corel's products -- there is nothing else comparable to Corel Draw for Linux or Corel WordPerfect Office 2000 for Linux, but both have been discontinued due to nonexistent sales. I'm lucky enough to own both, but people who want to buy WordPerfect Office 2000 for Linux today are out of luck, because Corel won't sell it to you and neither will anyone else.

In fact, it was Corel's second try... Corel Draw 6 (IIRC) was released for Linux years ago, and pulled due to lack of sales.

I see a lot of people here complaining that it's about capitalism vs. communism, or about "they didn't release the games I want" but I think, when it really comes down to truth, things look something like this:
  • Linux users don't pay for software. Ever. They're too cheap.
  • Loki games aren't out there for warezing. You gotta buy them.
  • Windows is everywhere and easy to warez.
  • Windows games are everywhere and easy to warez.

It's nothing to do with a utopian fantasy about free software... Linux users just want free beer. It's a sad thing for those of us who want to use Linux for anything else. We get told over and over "Use the right tool for the right job. What you want is Windows." Hmmm, Windows to run office software. Windows to browse the Web with a decent browser. Windows to play games. Well, as it turns out that's all I use a computer for these days.

So, in essence, what the "community" tells the rest of us, day in and day out, is "get lost and go back to Windows." Not because of any principle, but because they're deathly afraid they might become mainstream.

Sad for those of us who have never owned windows. I came up through the Unix world, starting in the mid '80s and I'm comfortable with *nix systems I still have a VT100 (yes, a real one) sitting in the corner that I use for some things. But if they're saying that Linux is for coding only, and thus modern Unix is for coding only... I guess I've outgrown Unix and will have to invest in Windows.

Ramble, ramble, ramble...

Back to on-topic... in short, yes, the games, and all of the hard work, will likely disappear into a black hole.

AOL? Redhat? IBM? (5, Troll)

Spankophile (78098) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897760)

AOL? Redhat? IBM? someone please help these guys.

The only people that could have helped these guys were Linux Gamers. Where either a) there aren't enough of them, or b) they're not used to having to actually pay for software, c) they didn't like the games Loki did.

whichever it is... the market has decided.

Hmm, let's see how long it takes for this to get modded down...

Re:AOL? Redhat? IBM? (2)

Xerithane (13482) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897850)

You hit it right on the head. All the games I want to play I can run under wine, which I don't because I have a win2k partition just for games.

They really wanted to create a niche market for linux porting, that would open up ground to a real game company. Unfortunately, most linux people who play games I reckon are pretty similar to myself. Coders and admins, they work and do hobby work and when they need a break from that they switch to games. Hell, I play around with crafty and gnuchess more than I play the games I've actually purchased. I think you have to look at the people who are running Linux. A lot of us aren't huge gamers, and those that are already have access to our games and are stuck in our paths.

I thought about buying Kohan from Loki. Then realized it'd be another game that I don't play ever. It woulda been nice to support them, in hindsight. I'm happily stuck in my niche, and they don't provide much in the immediate benefit for myself. I know it's a selfish outlook, but that's the way it goes.

Re:AOL? Redhat? IBM? (1)

felipeal (177452) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897904)

AOL? Redhat? IBM? someone please help these guys.

VA Linux, I mean, VA Software?

I can already see the future news: Loki Games (which belongs to VA Software which owns Slashdot)....

d) Their games were not translated to (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897996)

If i have to choose payin 30$ for a game translated to spanish for windows, or 40$ for the same game in english but ported to linux, sorry, but i just choose the first option.

Re:AOL? Redhat? IBM? (2)

Our Man In Redmond (63094) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898004)

Well, I for one bought their games. About a half dozen of them in all -- even Eric's Ultimate Solitaire, even though pysol is much, much better.

However as I saw it there were two big problems:

1. I'm not a fan of first-person shooters so I didn't buy any of them. I would have loved to seen more games like Railroad Tycoon II and Alpha Centauri.

2. I bought several of the games at a local Electronics Buotique, where they were selling for $5-10 a pop. I like a bargain as much as anyone else but the low price told me that either Loki wasn't charging enough for the games (doubtful), or EB wasn't selling the games and was closing them out. No matter how good Loki was, I don't think they were ever going to make it without retailer support.

Very simple reason! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897798)

Linux is free software.

People who use free software are cheapskates who won't buy anything.

Companies need people buying their stuff to survive.

No one using Linux will buy stuff.

Companies go under.

SIMPLE! Who the hell's gonna support Loki, Salvation Army?

Mandrake (2, Insightful)

jaredmcook (552049) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897816)

With Mandrake creating a "Gaming edition", why don't they pick up where Loki left off? That seems pretty logical to me.

Ahhh memories (1)

christurkel (520220) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897829)

When I started using Linux the very first thing I did was get Civ:Call To Power for Linux. Sure it was out for the Mac but here it was, a shrink wrapped game for Linux. I played then game for hours and hours. Sure, Civ:CTP ain't the greatest game but it ran great on Linux. I still play it, along with every other game Loki ported. The games installed so well. It was a joy using them. It is sad to see Loki go. Loki is example not only of a great Linux porting house, but a great porting house on any platform, period. Good luck, guys!

How much did they sell? (2, Interesting)

zrafnid (155155) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897862)

Does anyone know what kind of revenues Loki made? I'm curious as to how possible it is for a company to do linux ports of Windows games in the first place. Was this doomed to failure? Was there a lack of sufficient marketing? I've purchased a few Loki games from a local retailer and have reviewed one (Railroad Tycoon II). I found all of the games to be well done, functional, and extremely playable on my hardware (PIII 500, 512MB RAM).

As an avid gamer (I boot Windows ONLY to play games) I was very happy to see Loki port Windows based games to Linux. And contrary to a bunch of the posts so far, I thought that it was a) simple to get the games running and b) pretty decent in performance. Yeah, sure, Windows generally played the same game better on the same computer (although generally not by much), but then you had to cope with all that Window's garbage, like reboots and mysterious hangs and ... sheesh. At least if there was a problem with the game under Linux, I just had to restart the game, not the computer!

Anyhow, does anyone have the answers to my questions?

Best of luck to all who worked at Loki! You did a great job!

Who will host the CVS repository? (3, Interesting)

WillSeattle (239206) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897901)

from the article:
NewsForge: What happens to your public CVS repository and the projects it hosts?

Draeker: We'd like to find someone to continue hosting it.


Any volunteers?

-

Re:Who will host the CVS repository? (-1, Troll)

suffocate (90016) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898007)

Ask your mom.

Geek Adventures at LokiSOFT (-1, Troll)

geeky-troll (552499) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897907)

It had taken a while for CmdrTaco to become hard again, the nights activities up until then had been draining and very exhausting, but that hadn't deterred Hemos, he had quite literally been a machine, no sooner had he cum and started to go soft, then he was rock hard again and wanting to do it all over again. Not that CmdrTaco minded, it was the horniest, most depraved, lust filled night of his life, never had he been used and abused so completely before, and he had been with some 'experienced' geeks before. But, as CmdrTaco was now learning, experience is no match for horny, fucking first time lust. Hemos had, quite literally, been up all night, CmdrTaco knew that both of them would be sore in the morning, but he didn't care, he told Hemos, but he didn't care either. There was only one sour point for the entire night. At one point, after Hemos had once again been in CmdrTaco and unloaded deep inside him, Hemos pulled out and floppied exhausted down beside CmdrTaco. They had both laid there for a few minutes, catching there breath and waiting to see who got hard again first, which with no surprise turned out to be Hemos again. Hemos got up on his knees and straddled CmdrTaco's chest, wanting CmdrTaco to suck him off again. But CmdrTaco took him in his hand and started to slowly Taco-snort him, "You know... CowboyNeal's gonna kill me when he finds out about this." CmdrTaco said. "Huh?" Hemos moaned in a lusty daze, too intent upon the feeling of CmdrTaco's hand on his erection. "CowboyNeal, you know, your gay best friend... When you took me up to Slashdot and introduced us, well... you know what we were doing. In the morning, I was givin him a head job and he was just talking about stuff, and I asked him about you, like... what he though about you." CmdrTaco stopped to see if Hemos was paying attention. "Yeah... and..?" Hemos moaned. "Well... you know he likes you right? I mean... - really - likes you." The emphasis on 'really' made Hemos look down at CmdrTaco's face, half hidden under his erection. "Yeah, but... we're just friends..." "There's no need for you to be 'just' friends anymore." CmdrTaco's comment made Hemos think, that was true, but..? So intent on his thoughts, Hemos started to go soft in CmdrTaco's hand, but the sudden warm, tight mouth around his manhood bought Hemos back to the here and now with a groan of pleasure. When Hemos was back, CmdrTaco lay back down, Hemos slipping from his mouth, he took him in hand again, "Well, CowboyNeal said that of all the geeks he's ever been with, your the only guy he has ever - wanted - to be with. Like, the guys he has been with, its cos of lust, but he said with you it would be different. Not love... but... just different. He said he's had a heap of wet dreams about you," CmdrTaco laughed a little, "but he said he'd give anything to be able to go down on you, to taste you and that." CmdrTaco paused again, he felt a little guilty, but he continued, in a hushed whisper, "He wanted to be your first. If ever you were gonna try the gay thing, he wanted to be the one you were with, he wanted to feel you inside him, he wanted desperately to be inside you. I'm pretty sure once I heard him groan your name while I was fucking him slash-doggy style. He's got it bad for you, he actually warned me off you. I was stupid enough to tell him I, on occasion, had had the odd wet dream about you, I don't know why though, I mean, your not really my type of guy, but when I told him that, he got serious all of a sudden and warned me off you. He said that you were his, and he'd deck me if I ever so much as looked at you fun." Hemos didn't know what to say to that. CowboyNeal thought of him as his..?

Not such a sad day for Linux (1, Flamebait)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897925)


Not really. Loki was a regular ol' closed-source non-free company that ported games from windows to linux, slowly.

If you don't have any problem using closed-source software, go ahead and install XP. It's closed-source, but it's also quite stable, pretty secure (just grab a personal firewall) and most importantly, it has the best software and hardware compatibility (esp. games) of any platform.

If you want free software, Loki is not the answer. Let's keep with the idea of freedom, it is a good one.

Some people are willing to create games for free. Let's instead make it easy for them to reach a wider audience (linux) by supplying them with good tools, like Windows compatibility layers or stuff like SDL. (There may even be some people willing to use something like the street performer protocol to get paid simply to make the games, not to make copies of them. But maybe the world is still not ready for that idea.)

I wanted to support them... (1)

Nite_Hawk (1304) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897936)

Really I did. I drove all the way out to microcenter with my friend because supposedly they had "linux games". I was looking for Alpha Centauri... Or maybe Heroes of Might and Magic III. Or whatever that RTS game was that got ported over. If they had sc3k, I would have payed retail, taken it home, and even would have been pretty happy knowing I supported a linux company. I got there, and what did they have? Quake3. That's it. Yeah yeah, when I called, I should have asked more than simply "do you carry linux games?". Yeah yeah, I could have gone online and ordered the software from any number of online stores. But buying games isn't like buying a word processor. It's scratching an itch. You go out, and you want to buy a game, and you want it right then.

Anyway, I ended up with a $10 copy of Alpha Centauri for windows. Had a jumped through extra hoops, and waited a bit longer, I could have had loki's version for linux. It looks like I wasn't the only one that wasn't willing to do it.

Nite_Hawk

AO who? (1)

felipeal (177452) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897939)

A very sad day for Linux. AOL? Redhat? IBM? someone please help these guys.

Gee, had this article been posted 2 weeks ago, nobody would ever dream about AOL buying Loki. But now, thanks to the AOL/Redhat "rumor", it seems like AOL is the solution for all financial problems in the Linux world...

Hi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897941)

how much you need? I can help you out, I am Prince Fahdar Bin Eriz ok. cool send me mail with pr0n. Thx. U first make porn linux game 4 me. 3d shooter ok.

Green Bay Packers (4, Interesting)

stonedown (44508) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897946)

It sounds like it's a little late, but why not follow the model of the Green Bay Packers?

http://www.packers.com/history/stockhistory.html

Issue voting, non-divident-paying shares, with no chance of stock appreciation. I would be willing to pay $100 for a share. The motive for us is the same as it was for the Packers - to save a cherished institution; buy Loki enough time to make their business model work.

It would be important to prevent any single entity from gaining control, just as it was important for the Packers, by limiting how many shares any individual or organization can possess.

I know, ideally we should have bought the games in the first place, but Mandrake only recently was able to autodetect NVidia cards and install 3D support automatically. I think manually setting up NVidia cards was the big stopper for a lot of people.

BRITNEY SPEARS MEETS MARVIN THE MARTIAN (-1)

The BOFH Troll (549884) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897960)

BRITNEY SPEARS MEETS MARVIN THE MARTIAN
by Hamster
A huge metallic disc approached earth at an incredible speed, with the
amazing abilities of a gravity defying design, the ship slowed drastically
after entering the atmosphere and changed tragictory 180 degrees in mid
air. In mid-flight the metallic UFO stopped then slowly decended to earth.

It landed outside a small town in northern Luisiana.

The door of the large metal ship opened and an escalater telescoped its
way down to the ground.

Marvin (the Martian) took the escalater down to terra-ferma.

A mechanical arm came down from the ship and handed Marvin a note.

"Dear Agent Marvin,
Your mission is to capture a female earth creature and mate with her,
then bring her to Mars so that we may have the product of that union.
-Martian High Council
P.S.-Thank you for the cookies."

"Oh, how delightful." Marvin commented.

A second metallic arm sprung from the ship. This time the arm deposited
a wooden crate on the ground in front of the Martian.

The front of the crate popped open allowing a green martian dog to step
out. The dog saluted Marvin with one of his green floppy ears. He the
reached under his helmet with this same ear and produced a note.

"Dear captain,
Agent K-9 reporting as ordered."

"Oh K-9, our mission is to kidnap and mate with an earth woman. isn't
that simply delightful? Come along now we must find an earthling female."

The pair strolled through the woods and before long they came across an
attractive blonde earth female who was drinking a V8 Splash. She wore white
silk pants and a white t-shirt.

Marvin and K-9 approached the female together.

"Uhh whats up, dude?" She asked in her southern accent.

"I am Marvin the martian and this is my subordinate, K-9. We have come
to earth seeking an earth female to impregnate, now dosn't that sound
delightful?." He asked.

"Oh hello, I'm Britney. Sorry I can't talk but I have a picnic to go to.
Good luck with that whole impregnation thing."She said tossing aside her
now empty V8 bottle and began walking away.

"Oh my goodness K-9, do you suppose all earth females act like that?"
Marvin asked.

K-9 shrugged.

Marvin stepped up behind Britney and tapped her on the shoulder.

"Pardon me, but you are coming to Mars and I'm gong to impregnate you."
Marvin informed her.

Britney raised an eyebrow and crossed her arms.

"And suppose I don't want to go to Mars and be impregnated?" She asked.

Marvin took out his disintigrater and obliterated a boulder.

"Eep!" Britney's eyes widened in terror and her jaw hung slack.

She made dash for bottom the flying saucer's escalater that left a dust
cloud in her wake.

She put a conducters hat on began to ring a cow bell.

"ALL ABOOOOOOOOOOOARD, flying saucer leaving for Neptune, Pluto, Your
Anus, and Mars."She announced.

Marvin and K-9 rushed to the escalater, not wanting to miss the trip.

"Hurry, hurry you don't want to miss your trip" Britney said as she
shood the alien pair onto the space ship.

The escalater retracted back into the ship. With a hum and a whoosh the
ship took off into the sky. It zoomed past the moon and made a b-line
for Mars. Just before entering the atmosphere of the red planet it
stopped. It zoomed back the way it came and landed in the spot it had
taken off from a few minutes before. Marvin and K-9 descended the
escalater.

Marvin stepped up to Britney, huffing and puffing with rage, his fists
where balled up at his sides.

"Oooo you have made me very angry." He said.

"Calm down shorty, look its not that I don't want to go to Mars with
you. I do, really. Its just that I dont want to get involved in no
mutiny" Britney leaned in and whispered something into Marvin's ear as
pointed to K-9.

K-9 raised his ear and leaned in a bit trying to hear what was said.

When she finished explaining both she and Marvin both looked at K-9
angrilly.

Marvin whipped out his disintegrater and fired a blast at K-9. The
Martian dog jumped into his helmet to avoid the burst.

K-9 waved a white flag in one ear while handing Marvin a note with the
other.

"Dear Marvin,
What have I done?
- K-9" The note read.

"Let that be a lesson to you. I shall have no Mutiny I aboard my ship."
Marvin said angrilly.

Marvin turned to see that Britney was running away at full speed.

Marvin unslung a second weapon. This one fired a straight jacket that
wrapped itself snuggly around Britney's sexy body.

several minutes later, aboard Marvin's ship...

"Now when I remove this straight jacket, you are going to mate with me
Earthling. And I'll have no funny buisness." Marvin said.

"Who me? I've been looking forward to this." Britney lied with an
innocent look on her face.

"Oh goodey!" Marvin said, clapping his hands together enthusiastically.

Marvin released the straps on Britney's straight jacket.

Britney decided to cooperate, for the time being.

She removed her top non-chalantly, this elicited the appropriate
response from Marvin. The Martian's eyes bugged out and his tongue hung
out as he stared at her naked tits.

Britney unzipped her pants and let them fall to her ankles. She then
pulled her panties down to reviel her stunning pink pussy lips.

Marvin was mesmerised.

Britney smiled and got on all fours.

Marvin reached under his kilt and pulled out his hardening martian
man-meat.

The martian stood behind Britney and put his cock head to the singer's
juicey wet cunt.

Marvin grabbed a hold of her hips and began pumping her with a steady
rythem.

"Mmm mmm mmm oh oh oh yes." Britney moaned.

Britneys tits swayed forward and back as she pushed against his
strokes. Marvin leaned forward and reached under her chest so he could
squeeze her ripe tits as he fucked her. His finger dug into the firm
flesh of her large tits as she masterfully tightened her pussy over his
cock.

Britney's chest tightened and she sharply took in air. She came to an
orgasm, biting her lip to stop from screaming. Her girl cum splashing
all over his cock.

Marvin slid his cock out of Britney's sloppy wet pussy and slid it into
her tight ass hole. There was a slurpy, sloshy sound as he banged
Britney in the back door with his cum girl-splattered dick.

"Mmm rrrr" Britney moaned with discomfort.

Marvin released Britney's tits and took took squeezing her shapely butt
cheeks. Marvin ruthlessly pounded her ass faster and faster. Soon
enough he felt an orgasm welling up inside him.

"Oh goodness YES!" He cried as shot his load with an audible splat.

Marvin fell backwards, dizzy. Little birds circled his head.

"Oh goodness that was so delightfull." He said dizzilly.

When he finally regained his composure and his vision cleared all he
saw was the barrel of his own disintegrater gun aimed at him.

"Change in flight plans." Britney said with a smile.

Christina Aguilera yawned. Britney was a half hour late for their
picnic. She had the nice large blanket laid ot for them as well as a
basket full of food and a portable CD player with both their last CDs.

Christina picked up a rock and flung it as she could.

This was the first time she'd ever been stood up, and she didn't like
it.

Suddenly she heard a strange humming sound. Strange green lights
swirled around her.

She was very surprised to look up and see a UFO hovering above her. A
huge door opened in the ships side allowing an escalater to slide down
to the ground.

Christina was VERY surprised to see Britney coming down the escalater
to the ground in front of her. Britney was even more suprisingly,
completely naked!

Sure it was a big time saver, but it was kind of wierd.

"Sorry I'm late, but I got tied up." Britney said.

"Oh," Christina said,"Well I have a cell phone, hello."

"OK, OK, I said I was sorry. I'll make it up to you" Britney smiled.

Christina cracked a smile, "You sure will."

Christina pressed her-self against Britney's hot bod struck her tongue
between the other blonde's lips. As the two sexy singers grappled with
each other's moist tongues Christina took the apportunity to squeeze
Britney's firm butt cheeks.

Britney helped Christina strip her cloths off so that the horney pair
could really get down to buisness.

Christina reached into her picnic basket and pulled out her strap-on
dildo. Britney obligingly put it on.

Christina laid down on her back and raised her mid section slightly
in the air. Britney got on her knees in front between Christina's legs.

Britney put the tip of the dildo to Christina's pussy. Christina
wrapped her legs around Britney's waist and Britney took hold of
Christina's hips. With Britney thrust forward to begin fucking
Christina with incredible energy and enthusiasm.

Christina shook with each thrust her arms flailing wildly, until she
decided to reach up and grap Britney's firm melons for support.

Christina cried out loubly as her slim body shook with a satsfyingly
strong orgasm.

Britney pulled out and Christina laid back limp and gasping. Britney
unstrapped the dildo and lay atop her friend.

"Whew!" Christina huffed,"That was fantastic!"

"Thanx, hey I got a space ship wanna go shopping on Mars?"

Marvin grumbled unhappily as he gave the cashier his credit card.
Britney had a disintegrater casually pointed at his head.

"Are you two quite done I have almost maxed out my card!!!" Marvin
whined.

"No, we still gotta go to the W.B. store. And we should go to the food
court and get a couple of Pepsis." Britney said.

"Cokes" Christina corrected.

Marvin sighed and lowered his head saidly as he was made to carry
everything the two popstars bought.

At the risk of sounding repetitive... (4, Insightful)

erat (2665) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897973)

...Loki is a business, and if they don't have a viable business model, it's their problem. When you start a business you either make it successful or you don't. It's nobody elses problem to make things work, and it's especially nobody elses problem to infuse cash into a business that has proven time and time again that it's not viable.

I'm not saying Loki was a bad company. I'm saying that the business they were in was not robust enough to sustain Loki. Even the best of the best can only sell ice cubes to eskimos for so long. The Linux gaming market just isn't there, folks. Make your peace and move on.

I wish the folks at Loki (and the former employees) all the luck in the world, and maybe some day Linux will have a viable game market that will bring them all back together again. For now, though, it's not there. Pooling money together to keep Loki alive for the few people who bothered to buy their games is just plain silly. Ditto for asking RH/IBM/AOL to bail them out.

Loki wasn't in the business of charity; nobody should be asked for charity to keep Loki in business.

curious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2897979)

I haven't read the article so I dont know. But I'd be curious to know why they folded. Was it because the market for Linux games is too small? Or was it business of poor business decisions or something else?

is there a market? time for a poll ? (0)

steve.m (80410) | more than 12 years ago | (#2897994)

how about this:

Number of games I've bought for Linux ?
[]0
[]1
[]2
[]3
[]4+
[]i use windows
[]buy? i steal them

Re:is there a market? time for a poll ? (-1)

The BOFH Troll (549884) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898021)

[*] I cum in CmdrTaco's butt

um yeah (1)

unclefucknut (553697) | more than 12 years ago | (#2898018)

Linux games were expected to sell?

Hmm... lets see. The Linux camp is divided into two camps; the hacker geeks and the l33t windows gamer d00ds.

The geeks are too busy coding away (gracias) and the gamer d00ds are the type of people that leech their games from FTP sites. Not their local video game store. Unless you Linux is not brought to the wider audience, then there will be no revenues in Linux games. It's quite simple.

Windows will keep on dominating as the gamers platform of choice unless someone makes a Window out of Linux.. and that is not going to happen any time soon.
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