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Red Hat Network for the Masses

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the real-men-use-apt dept.

Red Hat Software 218

Outland Traveller writes: "A few months ago I sent some feedback to RedHat concerning their then $30/month RHN subscription service. I asked them to consider offering a $5/month low end version more suitable for home users with multiple computers. I'm sure that a plenty of other people offered the same suggestion, but I was still surprised when I opened my email this morning and found that the exact service I asked for is not only being offered, but that fast access to iso images has been added as well, among other improvements. I guess I now have to put my money where my mouth is :) Seriously though, this should be good news for people who download RedHat's .iso images but want to financially support RedHat in a way that makes sense."

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218 comments

This is (-1, Offtopic)

Genghis Troll (158585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909148)

my 500th post. If the troll gods be with me, it is also a first post.

Congratulations to you! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909151)

On your very fine achievement. May you see many more first posts!

Re:This is (-1)

The BOFH Troll (549884) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909166)

HOORAY. This IS BOFH'S 34th post. LONG LIVE trolling.

Re:This is (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909191)

Check out my string of first posts here. [slashdot.org]

Re:This is (0)

Ralph Malph Alpha (551824) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909254)

This is 49th post in this article. I claim it in the name of Donny Most.

Most Post, propz to Happy Days.

American Gestapo (-1, Offtopic)

October_30th (531777) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909268)

Stop reading /.

You can use your time in much, much better ways.

Read Curt Gentry's book "J. Edgar Hoover - The Man and the Secrets", for instance. Hoover's FBI was the American Gestapo!

I'd prefer to paypal them. (4, Interesting)

NevDull (170554) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909150)

If I want fast downloads, I'd paypal them a buck or two for a day or two of access to high-speed servers with ISOs. But a monthly fee whether or not I get anything of use to me?

Re:I'd prefer to paypal them. (4, Insightful)

friday2k (205692) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909159)

I have to disagree with you. Do you think a "pay-per-download/view" model would really work? On a voluntary basis? I think the offering that RH makes to you adds a lot of value and is really affordable. It is like hushmail.com, a nice secure email package I simply pay for because I like it. And I can help them support OpenPGP and other open standards. And this is exactly what RH is trying to achieve and what, IMHO, makes a lot of business sense.
But these are only my $5/month worth of comments.

Re:I'd prefer to paypal them. (0, Offtopic)

Saint Mitchell (144618) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909239)

But these are only my $5/month worth of comments.

Oh no, look what you did. Taco is going to go on his rant about micropayments again :)

Re:I'd prefer to paypal them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909161)

I think your missing the point... its not to pay for the download its to support the company who bundled your OS.

Re:I'd prefer to paypal them. (5, Insightful)

ShaunC (203807) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909211)

Looking at the big picture, I think I'd rather have the option to pay $5/month than pay $30/month.

After using Redhat linux for a couple of years, I decided to buy the upgrade to 7.0 last summer instead of just downloading it. For one thing it was simpler to get the CDs in the mail than to figure out what to download and roll my own. I also felt good supporting a company that's treated me well (RHAT +150.00 in two weeks...) in the past. But I never did activate my support, because it was only good for X number of days and after that I'd have to pay almost as much monthly as I'd paid for the bundle. I decided to save my code until I absolutely needed the support.

I'd feel more comfortable activating my support today, knowing that I'd only have to pay $5/month upkeep for a bit less service, than I'd have felt activating the support when I got the 7.0 CDs. I've always been in favor of choices, end-user empowerment, the idea that the person using software should be able to make the decisions. In that light I think Redhat has made a good move here. The more expensive option is still available to those who can afford it and would like the "VIP" treatment, but the cheaper option probably appeals to more people.

Remember that Redhat is a corporation, and needs to make money. I'm willing to bet that there are at least six times as many people willing to pay $5/month as there are people who are willing to pay $30/month. Offering the lower grade of RH Network will likely be a profitable decision as well as one that pleases consumers. Maybe I'll buy stock again ;)

Of course, I still ain't subscribing to the support unless I really need it! But when that day comes I'll be much happier that there's a less expensive option.

Shaun

Re:I'd prefer to paypal them. (4, Informative)

gimpboy (34912) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909419)

are you aware that you can user their service up2date for _free_ for one computer? this isnt something they advertise, but it's there. if you have multiple computers the $5/month is better for you.

better give 5 minutes of your time... (1)

tarzeau (322206) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909153)

to debian's bug tracking system, and report a bug.
instead of those $5...
www.debian.org

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909163)

booty!

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909171)

If I use Debian, I obviously won't pay 5$/month to RedHat.
If I use RedHat, I obviously won't report anything to the Debian bug tracking system.

Also, you seem to equate 1 minute to 1 dollar.

If that was true, 5$/month for RedHat Network would be a nice investment, since it's very likely that a subscription would save you at least 5 minutes a month (searching, downloading and installing updates manually can take a lot of time sometimes).

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909195)

look you use linux, so do i
(but i have to choice .. i can use hurd or *bsd too with debian)

tell me the advantage of using redhat products over microsoft? you could as well spend your money to microsoft.

redhat isn't any better than microsoft

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909260)

Red Hat employs developers who write GPL'd code, which sounds like a generous contribution to me (as opposed to, say, Caldera).

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909266)

An honourable company like Red Hat deserves our support, an evil empire like M$ does not.

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (0, Flamebait)

drsoran (979) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909412)

The only difference between Red Hat and Microsoft is 40 billion dollars and a 95% market share. I *guarentee* you if Red Hat was in Microsoft's position they'd be using just as many dirty tricks and semi-shady tactics to maintain their monopoly of Red Hat Linux on the desktop. Never trust a corporation farther than the next stockholders' meeting. Corporations exist to make money for shareholders not to bring peace and love into the world.

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909436)

(searching, downloading and installing updates manually can take a lot of time sometimes).

Unless you use Debian. Which was the author's point, I believe.

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909208)

I'm sorry, but reporting a Debian bug takes a lot of time, and since there are zillions, I'd probably waste more bandwitch than $5.

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909391)

Report a bug to Debian's bug tracking system? So it can disappear into the zillions already there, to be followed up when the next release happens (3 year from now?)

Re:better give 5 minutes of your time... (4, Insightful)

cymen (8178) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909446)

Where do I submit the "stable is taking forever to release, why don't you guys just give up" bug report on bugs.debian.org? Seriously, Debian isn't a viable alternative for an up to date linux server which many people need. If a stable release comes out every 5 years what is the point? I like running Debian unstable on my laptop but stable on servers? No way...

My favorite bit from the improvements (4, Funny)

tunah (530328) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909164)

was "Outdated Systems View". Looks cool, you hit a button and your floppy drive starts spitting out ticker tape and the screen shrinks and displays in monochrome "Insert card, face down, 9 edge first"

Re:My favorite bit from the improvements (1)

joib (70841) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909312)

Oh, I'd have guessed it would have looked like, say, this picture [microsoft.com] ... :)

RedHat lamer (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909165)

RedHat lamer, get a REAL distro you loser. Hell, gimme your IP so i can create myself a shell on your r00that boxen. Damn RedHat losers!

Re:RedHat lamer (-1)

The BOFH Troll (549884) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909172)

Debian or Slackware is what CmdrTaco uses on his dildo.

Re:RedHat lamer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909203)

Well, both such. Slackware is dead, minor changes since 8.0, and Debian is a distribution for packagers AKA developers.

What about Beowulf clusters? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909168)

Instead of a small LAN with a few computers at home, I have a Beowulf cluster. Would this service be of value to me?

Thank you.

Re:What about Beowulf clusters? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909183)

I smell a troll...

Re:What about Beowulf clusters? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909269)

Oh, c'mon, it's a clever take on the "Imagine a beowulf cluster of them", give the man a break.

WHY PAY ? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909184)

When you can use debian ;)
seriously apt-get your life :)

Re:WHY PAY ? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909198)

Because Debian is crap ?

Re:WHY PAY ? (5, Interesting)

mjh (57755) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909199)


When you can use debian ;)
seriously apt-get your life :)

I use debian. I love apt. But I'm considering moving some of the machines I support to red hat. For $5/mo/machine, it is really nice to have a single place where I can check on the status of packages and patches for every machine I manage. I don't know of a way to do this (currently) in debian.

Of course, I imagine it's only a matter of time before someone writes a post-install plugin to apt that will allow for an installation update to be written to a db or web page. So it's not inconceivable that debian gets a similar feature. But for now it doesn't exist, and it makes red hat very attractive for managing a non-small numbers of linux boxen.

Re:WHY PAY ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909238)

1.Stick "security.debian.org" in your sources file

2. apt-get update

3. apt-get upgrade

What's the problem?

Re:WHY PAY ? (5, Insightful)

mjh (57755) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909321)


1.Stick "security.debian.org" in your sources file

2. apt-get update

3. apt-get upgrade

Done

What's the problem?

350 machines. Need to track the package status of 350 machines. How exactly, are you going to tell me the status of 350 machines using that technique without going to each of the individual machines? Right now, you either:
  1. login 350 times
  2. write an ad hoc script, taking care to make sure it's secure and scalable
  3. wait until a debian developer writes a different ad hoc script or program and puts it into the debian tree

The point is that the red hat network (allegedly) manages large numbers of machines better than debian. Of course, this is untested by me, right now. But it's an attractive feature.

Re:WHY PAY ? (1)

whois (27479) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909564)

Umm.. nobody does this well.

But if I was going to do it, I'd do it with debian.

0 4 * * * apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && upgradestatus

Where upgradestatus would be a perl script that takes the output of "dpkg -l" and formats it in some intelligent way, then uploads it to an SQL server.

I would think that would give you awesome centralized package management, and you'd immediately know when systems are out of date, or when they fail their upgrades.

You may be saying "well, I don't want to write it myself, it should come with the OS!" and that may be true. But if it did, do you think you would use it the way it was? Or would you customize it to suit your own needs?

Maybe theres a reason nobody has done this yet. Probably because everyone already does it in their own way.

BTW, instead of pushing the status to a central server, I push out all my changes with an expect script. Even with 650 machines, I'd rather watch them as they get upgraded to make sure there isn't a failure. If theres too many machines, then you can devide the work up between several people and have them all watch upgrades.

But thats just me.

Re:WHY PAY ? (1)

enricod (301070) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909207)

no flames, I love debian, but the stable branch is really too old (kernel 2.2, xfree 3, no kde, ecc...).
And everytime i tried to upgrade the testing branch, something went broken...
Bye

Re:WHY PAY ? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909243)

Debian is for communists. I hear apt-get is really popular in Cuba.

If you're a real American, support your favorite distribution with money. Capitalism works. Which is why Redhat is lightyears ahead of Debian (and also why Microsoft is lightyears ahead of redhat).

If you don't believe in paying for the products you use, you're either communist or a terrorist (maybe both).

Re:WHY PAY ? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909279)

If you don't believe in paying for the products you use, you're either communist or a terrorist (maybe both).

You obviously have no idea of what you're talking about. Here's a hint: buy a dictionary, look up communism, L-E-A-R-N.

There's nothing un-American about wanting something for free or not paying for what you do get. If anything, it's probably more American to not want to pay for things that you get, hence this whole discussion. After all, people weren't willing to pay $30 to RedHat, so how is $5 any better?

I won't even touch your terrorist reference...honestly, if you wanted to be a troll, you could've done much better with your choice of words...

Anyway, who's to say that only Americans are on Slashdot? :-)

Mandrake has something similar (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909186)

Mandrake has something similar. It is called Mandrake Users Club and you can sign up as low as $5/month. I bet this is where RedHat got the idea.
http://mandrakelinux.com/en/club/

Re:Mandrake has something similar (4, Interesting)

joestar (225875) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909408)

This is funny to watch the Red Hat/Mandrake couple synergia with constantly one taking ideas to the other to progress; remember: Mandrake was the first to provide ISO images, Red Hat did the same soon after, Mandrake was the first to include a remote update tool, Red Hat did the same soon after, Red Hat was the first to offer online services, Mandrake did the same soon after... This is a very nice example of good competition.

the real-men-use-apt dept. (4, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909190)

Why do slashdot editors feel the need to undermine the stories they post with comments such as "real-men-use-apt". If a user posted a comment with that title it would rightly be moderated as flamebait.

Re:the real-men-use-apt dept. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909194)

Go fuck yourself, Debian bitch.

Re:the real-men-use-apt dept. (-1, Flamebait)

Genghis Troll (158585) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909214)

It was posted by Michael. Everything he posts has that smarmy, annoying, make-you-want-to-punch-him-in-the-throat air to it. As bad as CmdrTaco and the others can be, they are genuinely likable compared to this Michael cocksucker.

Re:the real-men-use-apt dept. (4, Funny)

uncleFester (29998) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909612)

Real men use make.

(I'm sure soon someone will degenrate this to 'real men use as...')

-fester

$5 is better than nothing (5, Interesting)

MiTEG (234467) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909192)

I don't know what the current costs of bandwidth are for RedHat, but assuming everyone who pays the $5 downloads all four CD iso's of 7.2, that's a good 2.6 GB. Sure, it's better than not getting anything for it, but the increase in traffic their going to have might hit them pretty hard. I've NEVER downloaded anything from the RedHat servers simply because the mirrors are so much less busy and a whole lot faster.

Personally, I'd much rather see the in-store retail versions of RedHat drop in price to the $10-15 range for the latest version. I'd be more than happy to pick up a copy (can't have too many Linux install CD's lying around). Most of the documentation can be found online, and there are probably a lot of people like many that just want the CD's and don't really care so much about support. Right now, the current list price for RedHat 7.2 is $59.95, and it can be bought for $48.95 [buy.com] at buy.com. This company really ought to think their strategy. The distro market is pretty competitive right now, and 59.95 is a hell of a lot of money to spend on a free OS.

Re:$5 is better than nothing (5, Insightful)

mjh (57755) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909216)


This company really ought to think their strategy. The distro market is pretty competitive right now, and 59.95 is a hell of a lot of money to spend on a free OS.

I don't think that selling boxed copies in stores is Red Hat's primary motivation. I think their going after the enterprise. That's why they want to sell subscriptions at $30/mo/machine. You buy, or download, one copy of RH and install it on as many machines as you want. But if you want enterprise level support to keep those machines "up2date" then you can pay the monthly fee.

If you're big enough, you can buy the soon to be released "Red Hat Network in a Box" where you can run you're own completely autonomous Red Hat Network w/in your own corporation. (Info from a Red Hat guy who recently visited our LUG.)

Box sales in stores is likely to always be part of their market. But IMHO, it's not their primary target.

Re:$5 is better than nothing (1)

asv108 (141455) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909541)

The "Network in the box" feature sounds like a way for redhat to gain some market share in the corporate desktop market. Whenever I discuss Desktop Linux to the "MCSE crowd" one of the big sticking points is Windows RIS (Remote Installation Services).

Re:$5 is better than nothing (1)

whereiswaldo (459052) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909247)

There's two ways to look at it. When I pay $60 for a distro (Mandrake is my choice), I know it's going to a good cause. I feel like I'm contributing to a good cause. So, $60 isn't too bad. Plus, you the manuals in print which is a nice bonus.

On the other hand, I don't know what people who don't know about "free" software think about shelling out $60. My guess is, they're reading the box and thinking "geez, thousands of programs on 7 CDs and still much cheaper than Windows. Plus, my buddy said it's really cool. Ok."

Re:$5 is better than nothing (5, Informative)

Myxx (21264) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909248)

I don't know what the current costs of bandwidth are for RedHat

I know how much they are paying because I work for the company that hosts their FTP servers. Trust me...they sit upon dual OC-48 feeds, right on the backbone which means low latency. I don't know what kind of bandwidth they commit to each month but I do know our company loves them. But that kind of access costs. You folks should appreciate the free downloads and help when you can. I have always bought my Red Hat CD.

Myxx

Re:$5 is better than nothing (1)

TheLinuxWarrior (240496) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909342)

I totally agree. Those fat pipes aren't free, and neither are the developers putting it all together.

I usually buy the box set when it comes out just to do my part to kick in. I think I'll probably sign up for this for the very same reason.

Re:$5 is better than nothing (3, Funny)

sunhou (238795) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909458)

[Red Hat 7.2] can be bought for $48.95 at buy.com.

I noticed at that buy.com page, under the section where it says "customers who bought this product also bought", the first thing listed is Microsoft Visual Basic C++ Std 6.0. There are some confused or soon-to-be-disappointed people out there.

Open Source up2date server (3, Insightful)

StarHeart (27290) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909196)

I wonder when someone will reverse enigeer up2date and make an open source up2date server. So you could just pay $60 to redhat to download the update full speed, then turn around and at as a server to your lan to update all the others. The source is avaiable for rhn_register and up2date, both GPL, so it wouldn't be that hard.

Re:Open Source up2date server (3, Informative)

StarHeart (27290) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909217)

hahha, I just went and did a search and found "Current" on freshmeat. Looks like someone already beat me to the idea :)

Re:Open Source up2date server (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909368)

Just use Debian. I got sick of trying to fumble around keeping RPM based distributions up to date. It's a nightmare. Debian is a dream. Come to the light and support REAL open source software not commercial Red Hat!

Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda's Wild Ride: Now With Part 2 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909197)


Part I


Rob "CmdrTaco" Malda sat back in his chair gently massaging his cock. He was leafing through the latest issue of the Leisure Times porn catalog, contemplating which video he was going to buy next. The jerk-off factor of each video decreased after a few weeks, so he had to constantly update his collection.

Malda often spent late night hours at his office like this; his apartment was just too lonely. The benefit of having a basement office was no casual passers-by. Cliff always thought he was working late on some paperwork; he was notoriously slow in finishing anything dealing with the next Slashcode revision. Or doing work on the latest Slashdot submission. Cliff thought correctly that Malda had no personal life.

"Hmmm, should I get 'Killer Cumshots' or 'Ass Eating Insanity'? Or maybe I ... Ooohhh..." moaned Malda when he turned the page to the all-boys section; his cock throbbed with lust. "OK, how about 'Uncut Hunks' and 'Babes with Balls', you little freak," he said to his cock as he started to pump a little harder. He reached for the lube in his bottom drawer, slathering his hand and cock with the slippery stuff. He closely examined each small picture on the page. He especially liked the really muscular young guy in 'Boot Camp Boys'. Oh, to run his hands up and down that smooth, muscular stomach as he knelt in front of him, pulling that huge cock into his mouth...

Malda arched his back and groaned as he came, shooting cum all over the desk. He slumped back down into the chair as his breathing slowed to normal. "I'm definitely going to order 'Uncut Hunks' and 'Boot Camp Boys'."

After a few minutes he pushed his cock back into his pants and wiped up the lube and cum with a tissue. This had become almost a nightly ritual after his last meeting with Jon Katz earlier in the year. Malda wondered when if that rat bastard would ever quit his job at Slashdot.

"I wonder if any of these videos star brunettes with green eyes?" Malda said thoughtfully as he flipped back through his catalog. "Or petite redheads?" he chuckled as he looked at the ad for 'Clit Licking Lezzies'.

Malda started to daydream about Michael and Timothy 69'ing each other. "Not again," he groaned as he leaned back to pull his erection out of his pants. He got into a great rhythm. The subjects of his daydream morphed from two homosexual men to two other homosexual men--CoyboyNeal and Hemos sucking each other's cocks.

"Yeah, that's it. That's it!" he panted, imagining himself sliding deftly in between those two hunks. He wanted nothing more than to be on his hands and knees sucking CowboyNeal's cock with Hemos fucking his ass.

"Uh...uh..." whimpered Malda; he could feel the cum ready to explode out of his cock when the door to the office slammed open and heavy footsteps, belonging to 2 or 3 people, pounded on the floor. Before he could cry out or even identify the intruders a heavy, black hood was shoved over his head and he was hauled roughly to his feet.


Part II


*Damn. What the hell was I doing with my back to the door?* Malda thought angrily, kicking himself mentally. He had swivelled his chair to face the wall to give himself more room for the urgent thrusting his raging hormones had screamed out for and now he was paying the price for his lack of self-control.

"Hey, can we talk about this?" he pleaded before an open hand to the side of his head convinced him to be silent. His silent assailants manouvered him away from his desk, positioning him in the small space between the desk and open door.

His hands were pulled behind his back and secured with soft leather cuffs. One gloved hand brushed his neck, a leathery thumb carressing his neck, finding the exact spot that caused spasms of pleasure to ripple through his body.

A heavy thump sounded to his right, followed by the rusty squeal of a zipper. He sensed someone kneeling next to him, could feel warm breath on his still exposed cock. Noises of items being removed from what he guessed was an army style duffel bag fired his imagination, setting in motion a hundred and one images from his fantasy filled brain.

His suit pants were unzipped and pulled down along with his 'Star Wars: The Phantom Menace' boxers, drawing a snicker from the two men in the room. Once he was naked from the waist down, he was startled to feel cold liquid being sprayed on his feet and legs and then his feet lifted one at a time into what felt like vinyl boots. No... more like a wet-suit, slick and body-hugging. The body suit was worked slowly upwards, with more lubricating oil applied to ease the journey.

When his legs were fully covered, more scented oil was applied liberally to his cock and balls, before they too were enveloped in a tight vinyl sheath. He felt the nozzle of the spray bottle placed gently between his buttocks, inserting a large dollop of grease inside his anus. He tried to impale himself on the intruder, to gain release form the mounting pressure in his balls, but firm hands on his hips held him still, denying him what he needed most.

The nozzle was removed and quickly replaced by a medium-sized butt plug, not big enough to tear or hurt him, but enough to stretch and fill him. Then the suit was quickly rolled up his backside, holding the plug firmly inside of him.

He had an idea who his mysterious assailants might be and since they had yet to cause him harm, he put up no resistance to their preparations. Indeed it was as if they had read his thoughts, had climbed inside one of his favourite fantasies and were recreating it for him and only him.

As the dressing continued, Malda grew very relaxed and peaceful, the oil warming against his skin, congealing to pull the body suit even tighter, until he could no longer tell where his flesh ended and the material began. His exposed flesh was massaged by the sprayer, alternating between feather-light fingertip touches and whole hand carresses, before the oil was applied and then the slick vinyl covered another inch, creeping upwards at a steady rate, like some form of living creature. He didn't even remember when they removed his shirt and tie so they could fit his arms into the tight sleeves.

However he did begin to panic when he felt the vinyl reach his throat, certain that they would continue until he was fully encased in shiny black, unable to see, to breathe, to call out. The hood was claustrophobic enough, the full mask he envisioned them using was utterly terrifying.

He must have been visisbly shaking with fear, for he was suddenly embraced from behind and in front, sandwiched between two strong, solid bodies. Two rigid erections pressing against him, soothing whispers in his ears, comforting him, letting him know that he was not in danger.

And then the hood was removed and Malda felt his erection deflate as he stared at the naked, pasty-white body of...

To be continued...

+5, Inciteful (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909233)

Mod parent up!

Very good thing (3, Interesting)

junkster191 (551312) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909205)

This seems like a very solid move on redhat's part. The RHN is a well run system that fits in perfectly with the open source philosophy, and the only thing that kept me from getting all my machines on it was the cost. But now, I'll probably go ahead and subcribe. Also seems like a good financial move, since locking people into a monthly subscription-for-service type contract is a great way to make a lot of money, and seems to be what most companies are striving for nowadays (especially MS). Hmmm, I wonder what kind of transfer rate I can get now on the ISO images from the T3 at work?

Licence v6.0 for Red Hat Linux???!!!*joke* (1)

MrBandersnatch (544818) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909206)

Seems Expensive to me. I've been downloading and installing Suse using FTP and floppy disk for my last few installs, getting all the support I need from newsgroups. The financial support comes in the form of the 3 distros I've bought from them over the years. (Total cost about 3 years subscription to a $5 a month service)

I know the various distibution makers HAVE to make money but I cant see that this adds any REAL value to the product by subscribing.

Im sure someone will now inform me other wise...

OPENBSD IS NOT SECURE (-1, Offtopic)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909212)

sorry people but i must spred the truth, openbsd is not secure, windows is audited, so is openbsd, auditing == not secure! linux and openwall is far more secure, although openbsd's inetd.conf is secure, comments?

Re:OPENBSD IS NOT SECURE (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909230)

How could something named "Open Wall" possibly be secure?

Thanks in advance.

Re:OPENBSD IS NOT SECURE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909240)

Well the name is still better than Gaping Anus! [goatse.cx]

Keeping a Gaping Anus securely closed is almost impossible.

Re:OPENBSD IS NOT SECURE (0)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909252)

you are kidding right? who cares about the name baybe, openwall and lids, just try and hack my box!

Send them your money (4, Funny)

ellem (147712) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909229)

You hate M$, you love Open Source, you think Linux Roolz, you probably have $60 bucks somewhere. Just send them the money,

RH puts out a decent product and will probably be the last Linux standing tall at the end. Just give'em the $60 bucks and prove that you are more than a 1337 h4x0r and someone who actually cares about this whole Open Source, anti M$ thing.

Open Source != Anti-MS (5, Insightful)

Dan-DAFC (545776) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909298)

Open source is not about being anti-Microsoft (OK, for some people it is). I have no love of Microsoft but Open Source is more than that, it's a whole new way of doing things. I expect to see Microsoft and Open Source co-existing for quite some time yet. They are not direct competitors.

Re:Send them your money (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909375)

RH puts out a decent product and will probably be the last Linux standing tall at the end.

I doubt it. I'd put my money on Debian to still be around kicking strong long after RHAT has been delisted and all those college dropouts in NC are sent packing.

Too slow, chicken marengo... (5, Interesting)

Michael Wardle (50363) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909237)

It's unfortunate that Red Hat has not offered this service sooner. I moved my home systems to FreeBSD [freebsd.org] only last week as it's much easier to upgrade to the latest release version [freebsd.org] (or even [freebsd.org] to the latest CVS version) or to get a package of a recently-released application [freebsd.org] . Similar benefits [debian.org] can be obtained from Debian [debian.org] GNU/Linux as well. Both can be upgraded at no cost.

From my experience of Red Hat [redhat.com] , even if I did want to upgrade to a more recent version of Red Hat Linux, I wouldn't trust it to an automated system. I upgraded a Red Hat 6 production server to Red Hat 7 last year, and so many things broke I was quite disappointed.

I guess this service will be useful for those home users who want to automatically pull down the latest security patches, tho.

(For those who don't know, the quote [geocities.com] is from Red Dwarf [reddwarf.co.uk] , a British comedy.)

Actually, this still doesn't give me what I want (2, Interesting)

Michael Wardle (50363) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909411)

I finally managed to get to the Red Hat Network site, where it is described like this:

Red Hat Network is an Internet solution for managing one or more Red Hat Linux systems. All Security Alerts, Bug Fix Alerts, and Enhancement Alerts (collectively known as Errata Alerts) can be retreived directly from Red Hat. You can even have updates automatically delivered directly to your system as soon as they are released.

So this service does not actually offer the ability to upgrade to the next Red Hat Linux version; it only offers patches for your current version.

Does this mean Red Hat still has no upgrade facility other than rebooting the server and booting from the install media? If so, then despite the RHN being a useful service, it seems that Red Hat still doesn't provide the functionality I want.

If I could do a live minor upgrade (such as 7.1 -> 7.2) of a Red Hat system it would definately be a step in the right direction.

I also wonder how a major upgrade (such as 6.2 -> 7.2) could be made smoother, considering the substantial changes between major versions.

The Red Hat Network is a good start, but some more tools are needed to ensure that upgrades are easier to perform, and are more likely to succeed.

Re:Too slow, chicken marengo... (1)

cymen (8178) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909426)

I'm with you. I run FreeBSD on my home server. I disagree with Debian being an option - "stable" is just too freaking out of date to run and unstable on a server just isn't tempting. I run Debian unstable on my laptop though.

At work I caved in and decided to just move everything to RedHat. I hope RedHat works on up2date/rpm/whatever so you can move from one release of the os to another with minimal breakage just like FreeBSD and Debian. If I ever colocate a box there is not a chance in hell it will run RedHat. My first choice would be FreeBSD just for ease of maintenance. When you can't get to the machine physically without a lot of time/effort/$$$ why run something that is simply inefficent for your purpose. That's the way I see it...

Re:Too slow, chicken marengo... (2, Informative)

TobyWong (168498) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909471)

It would be nice if the debian crew came up with a release branch somwhere in between stable and unstable. Something that was a little more up to date than stable and a little less bleeding edge than unstable.

Oh wait, THEY ALREADY HAVE. It's called testing and if you had read any debian news within the past year you would know about it.

"Fast" ISO Downloads (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909245)

Just bought my subscription today, didn't even know about the recent price reduction. The system views are nice. One of the features I like the best so far is the ability to compare systems.

Update the dev server, test, compare with production, and schedule an update...

mmmm.. nice.

On the other hand, I haven't even been able to *start* a download from the supposed fast servers. I wonder if everybody is download extraneous isos for fun now.....

Old model (1, Troll)

nagora (177841) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909253)

The whole RPM thing is dead as far as I'm concerned. I've used RH since version 5 and I'm leaving it now (in stages) in favour of Debian, although I'm going to try Sorcery on one machine to see how it goes.

The reason is obvious: dependancy hell. I've had enough of it. Any system which uses RPMs is simply too hard to maintain.

If RPM5 comes out in the next month or so and supports a high-quality dependancy resolution system I might still stick with RH, but I don't expect it to.

TWW

Re:Old model (2, Informative)

havardw (180104) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909264)

Not that I think that Debian can't be a better distribution in some ways, but have you looked at APT for RPM [tuxfamily.org] ?

Re:Old model (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909330)

For non RPM systems see Libranet and [libranet.com] Gentoo Linux [freshmeat.net]

Re:Old model (1)

heideggier (548677) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909466)

Yeah your right, I think that dependancy hell is the main thing holding linux back on the desktop, apart from a relience on Xfree (this ones a bit controversial) and the lack of property applications and now games I guess :-( (these last two being something that open source let's linux get away with).

Right now it is simply too hard for a "average" person to update and install software on their box, For example, say my mother wishes to install the new version of evolution, she goes to the web site and there are 20 different types of packages to install (one for each distro), so she takes a punt, and then finds out that there are 20 different dependant packages, For linux to progress there need to be two standard install systems, consisting of a binarie version and another source version, for EVERYTHING IMHO. Doing this my mother would simply have to download one file, double chick and the programs installed, and by not having to think to much avoid confusion

People aren't dumb rather they tend to get the shits when they have to do a whole host of things just to "install fscking outlook clone".

Personally Im curious to why it seems to be taking so long, after all RPM's haven't really changed much since Red Hat 5.

Also while Apt get is definitely a step in the right direction but a newbie might think that having to download other programs when they have just downloaded the principle package a bit "rich".

Difference between subscriptions (1, Interesting)

windi (231689) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909259)

So what is the exact difference between the $5 and the $30 subscriptions?
Do the $30 subscribers get more bandwidth, faster access to updates, or even more stuff?
Redhat has to offer something to still get people to get the more expensive subscription

Re:Difference between subscriptions (5, Informative)

EvlG (24576) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909273)

Read the site.

But for the lazy, the $30 is really targeted at Enterprise customers. It offers support for things like multiple admins, grouping systems to perform updates on a group, etc... It's suited for running more than 4 or 5 machines in your apartment. Think hundreds, or even thousands, in the workplace.

No Michael, you're wrong (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909261)

The real men use configure; make; make install.

What about Red Carpet? (5, Informative)

SysadminFromHell (535868) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909274)

I`m using Ximian Red Carpet for almost half a year now, and I`m wondering what`s the difference between these. Seems to me that all the advantages (fast servers, package control,...) are also available in Red Carpet, for free. PLUS when you use RC, you don`t only have the RedHat Channel, there`s also Ximian Gnome`s own channel, Staroffice, Loki Games, Codeweavers, ... I`d like to support RedHat in some way, but there must be something I can`t get elsewhere.

Re:What about Red Carpet? (1)

cymen (8178) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909431)

I tried Red Carpet a while back. Just took a look at Ximian.com. What's the deal? Do you pay them a certain amount per month or is Red Carpet free with purchase of $30/$50 package? If there isn't a monthly cost how do they stay in business?

In a similar note I wonder how the hell debian.org can afford the bandwidth for all the apt-get'ing. I know there are plenty of mirrors but still...

Re:What about Red Carpet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909443)

FYI, Ximian charges about $10/mo for a service called "Red Carpet Express" providing ample bandwidth to those who pay. The normal red-carpet.ximian.com serer (which it oddly uses for anything that's not the base Ximian software, regardless of your choice of mirrors) is slow (50 kilobits/sec a lot of the time).

My beef with Red Carpet is that it doesn't do major upgrades, like Red Hat 7.0->7.2 in my case.

Re:What about Red Carpet? (2)

rasjani (97395) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909453)

Redcarpet is free to use as a basic services but they also have "premium" package for 10 bucks a month that quarantees faster downloads (this might also mean that some packages appear later to free mirrors, but atleast, redhat channel seems to be quite fast since all upgraded rpms appear usually the same day as redhat puts them out..). Weird part is that after this premium service was launched, redcarpet got shitload of new mirrors and atleast for me, downloads have been really fast.(+800KB/s)

I like it (5, Interesting)

EvlG (24576) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909275)

I upgrade RedHat twice a year - I always run the most current. I look at the $60/machine as 2 purchases of a $30 edition (do they even make the $30 edition still). To have the machine update itself with a click of the mouse, even if I am away from the box out of town is a nice benefit as well.

Also the Instant ISO program. I hope they have the bandwidth, because I intend to take full advantage of it on release day. Saves me from a trip to the store, 2 or 3 weeks later.

I've come to love RedHat over the last 4 years of using it since switching from Slackware at RH 5.1. I'm pleased with the convenience this service offers, and I am quite happy to give them $5 a month to keep my server running well.

Proxy/Satellite Servers for RHN Workgroup (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909282)

According to their site, the proxy caches updated rpms, and the satellite basically acts as a RHN server, serving up the web stuff.

Has anyone actually used these servers with the workgroup service? I couldn't find any reference to them in the Red Hat Network Workgroup User Reference Guide 1.0 [redhat.com] .

For that matter, has anyone used the Workgroup service? Opinions?

Maybe I'm missing something... (2)

lemox (126382) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909288)

... but does anyone see anything about $5, or even any lowered prices at all? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the poster is getting at, but all I see is $60/year for RHN, and $240/year for the new Workgroup service. Sure, there are improvements, but I don't see anything making this better for the home user...

Re:Maybe I'm missing something... (4, Funny)

bentini (161979) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909301)

60 dollars per year *IS* 5 dollars per month. The 240 dollars per year is the old service. The improvement is the fact that some people know how to manipulate units.

(Note: This isn't a flame. It *would* have been a flame if I had added that last night I showed his girlfriend that I also knew how to manipulate digits.)

Re:Maybe I'm missing something... (1)

lemox (126382) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909328)

damn. I suppose me being ready to go to sleep at 6am, rather than getting up, is a bad time to make any statements.

Oh well, foot, mouth, etc... flame was well deserved. :)

Re:Maybe I'm missing something... (2, Informative)

Jess (11386) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909305)

$5/month x 12 months/year = $60/year

I sent the same sort of feedback (5, Interesting)

TheLinuxWarrior (240496) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909336)

I think when I first looked at RHN it was $20 monthly. If I were still at a company that was running linux servers, I would definitely pay that fee. Right now however, the company I work for only allows linux in a pilot environment.

At home though, I have a 10 machine lab, most of which run Redhat on them. But still, if I want to get RHN, that's $240 per year. Like I told Redhat, I can get a Windows license cheaper than that, and that includes free use of the Windows update service. So if I have a two year upgrade cycle, I've paid $440 to Redhat, while paying about $200 to Microsoft. The difference being that if I remember correctly, that $240 annually to Redhat covers up to 10 machines, while the Windows fee only covers one. Still though, it's not like I grant myself a large IT budget for home.

Now that the cost for a home user to sign up has come down, I can definitely see myself using it. It makes updating much easier, and it allows me to do my part in supporting the Linux distribution that I prefer.

Re:I sent the same sort of feedback (3, Insightful)

weave (48069) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909609)

At home though, I have a 10 machine lab, most of which run Redhat on them. But still, if I want to get RHN, that's $240 per year. Like I told Redhat, I can get a Windows license cheaper than that, and that includes free use of the Windows update service.

You're going to run a 10 machine lab of Windows machines for less than $240 including upgrades to their latest OS, or are you talking about just buying one copy of Windows for all 10 machines?

Want a new free car? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2909416)

Our car-manufacturing company has developed a new revolutionary business model for making cars.

We give away the cars for free and then we sell services for those cars! If you want to we can clean your car, wax it or you can use some of our other services.

We get cash from a couple of VC's, the rest of them simple don't "get it". If we need more we just call "the suits".

Am I Missing Something? (1, Insightful)

1stflight (48795) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909434)

Okay, besides the cost, and maybe not even that, what's the difference between this kind of subscription and M$'s ?

Re:Am I Missing Something? (1)

sunhou (238795) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909478)

Okay, besides the cost, and maybe not even that, what's the difference between this kind of subscription and M$'s ?

Yeah, why are people so happy about this, when they would be foaming at the mouth if Microsoft wanted to charge you $5/month?

The difference is that Red Hat is not pointing a gun (or a team of salespeople or lawyers) at your head and forcing you to sign up for this. You can buy (or download) one copy of Red Hat, install it on your 1,000 machines, and never pay them another cent, if that's what you want to do. The fact that RH gives you that option make people (including me) happy. So far, I've chosen not to subscribe to any Red Hat services. That may very well change someday, but when I want it to.

Re:Am I Missing Something? (3, Insightful)

baptiste (256004) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909560)

Yeah, why are people so happy about this, when they would be foaming at the mouth if Microsoft wanted to charge you $5/month?

Simple - I can install RedHat for free. I have to buy M$ at a cost of $100-$200 every year or two for each machine. Too expensive for me for what I get.

Thats why I never used RHN - too expensive for my little LAN of 5 or 6 machines. But $60/year for the service seems like a great deal. And I can't help but feel lik ewhen $ goes to RedHat its almost a donation where money sent to M$ feels like gettin grobbed - can't explain why though :)

Still too much $$$ (2)

vondo (303621) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909441)

This works out to $60/year. Consider that a home user with a single computer spends about $90 every 2 years to upgrade his/her version of windows. That's buying very upgrade that comes along. Drop that to every four years, and a windows person spends about $20/year.

For these people, RedHat costs 3x more to keep updated than windows. Granted, more software comes with RedHat, even in the stripped down versions.

Still, I think more reasonable support contracts for individuals can only help these distro companies. I've been asking the same from Mandrake every chance I get, but to no avail.

Uh, Mike (2)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909463)

"from the real-men-use-apt dept."

I guess those "real men" don't have to work at a company that makes any money.

I sent similar feedback. (1)

sallen (143567) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909484)

I sent similar feedback in response to an email from RedHat, with the same $5 / month idea. As you said, I have a feeling quite a few others had the same thoughts.

I usually buy a packaged version when it comes out, it keeps me current, gives a little back to RedHat, and gives me the n days of support. But only one machine. With 2 at home (as I figure many have with one 'user' machine and a firewall) I could use RedHat Network for updating, but I had to keep switching machines in order to use up2date. For me, the $5 / month is worth the time savings in using up2date vs. doing the individual downloads of each fix. As someone else said, guess I'll now have to step up to the plate and pay it :)

business use (1)

gruntvald (22203) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909530)

I asked them to include the subscription in their "professional" edition, somewhat like they used to with their previous incarnation of RHN. I work at a business that a) doesn't have an account with RH (we buy from a vendor) b) doesn't have a business credit card. I don't want to use my own credit card and expense it, nor do I want to go through the rigmarole of setting up and account. This change doesn't impact me much.

Service was free when I bought the 7.0 Box Set (1)

newdaemon (174579) | more than 12 years ago | (#2909611)

I purchased the 7.0 boxed set some time ago and originally the service was supposed to be offered for a limited time. RedHat then decided to give the service for free to one system if you bought the boxed set. I still have free access.

Are they still giving the service away for free if you purchase the official boxed set? I've used Caldera 2.4 and Debian 2.4, but I came back to RedHat because of the RedHat Network service. I did use apt-get extensively when I had Debian, but I found RHN easier to use. Just my opinion. This is the right price for this service, and I posted this opinion to RedHat's feedback form. I'm going to get my brother and sister to sign up, as I got them to start using RedHat some time ago at 7.0. Of course, my brother still uses Windows for Everquest.;(

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