Limited-Use DVD Technology 643
ps_inkling writes: "Two companies are creating different techniques to make DVD discs unusable after a set period of time. SpectraDisc has a patent on a limited-play DVD technology; FlexPlay is currently developing limited play DVD technology. The SpectraDisc technique is to coat the DVD with a film, then wrap the DVD in an anaerobic package.
The idea is to sell these 'play-once' DVD movies at a substantial discount to regular DVDs as a way to compete with pay-per-view or movie ticket outlets."
Gotta love capitalism... (Score:2, Informative)
Difference (Score:5, Insightful)
These new ideas are entirely different.. they rely on the disc itself to limit how many times you can play it. I, for one, wouldn't mind paying $1-2 for a DVD which allows me to watch a movie a couple times until the coating on the disk makes it unreadable. You only have to read it once to rip it.
Re:Difference (Score:2)
In any event, I doubt those who chose Beta over VHS got any sort of refund ...
Rent it (Score:2)
Re:Gotta love capitalism... (Score:2, Insightful)
i predict the movie rental stores will all be closed within 5 years.
the profit model is good, but with the advent of widespread digital cable (and thus, very easy to access Pay-per-view), and with streaming media, tivo, and people's natural tendency to buy not rent
attempts such as single use DVD just arent going to be able to carry a dying market.
Re:Gotta love capitalism... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Gotta love capitalism... (Score:4, Insightful)
pay per view is conducted entirely fFrom the comfort of my house. all i have to do is (depending on my provider) make a phone call, or switch to the desired PPV channel and hit 'select' it requires little to no planning, and creates no effort on anyones part. in effect, it is pure money fFor the cable company, and simple entertainment fFor me.
renting a movie meanwhile allows me to view a movie a dozen times over a weekend. or at least replay a specific scene i might have missed while the phone rang or whatever. call me spoiled, but i absolutely love replaying cool/weird/important/packed scenes.
single use CDs are a stupid stupid idea, because they contain all the inconvenience of renting a movie, with all the inconvenience of PPV.
(this is not a troll)
New DivX?? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:New DivX?? (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, imagine a day when you can walk into the Blockbuster and instead of seeing miles and miles of movies taking up valueable space, you can pick out the movie you want from a kiosk, with access to more movies than you could squeeze into acres of Blockbusters, and a DVD-R burns it for ya with the time limited coating... That makes sense to me.
waste (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't get it.
Re:waste (Score:2, Funny)
Re:waste (Score:2, Offtopic)
Or, people who say "blame dubya" are just stupid.
Re:waste (Score:5, Informative)
It is interesting to note that a recent scientific study found that because Flexplay discs will eliminate unnecessary trips by car to video stores, they will actually result in a net benefit to the environment. The study, conducted by Jonathan Koomey, a noted environmental expert, concluded that if Flexplay discs constituted 10% of all rentals, the technology would save 50 million gallons of gasoline, eliminate 111,000 metric tons of carbon emissions, 700 tons of hydrocarbons, and 1,000 tons of nitrogen oxides every year. These emissions savings would be equivalent in their effects to removing 82,000 passenger car and light trucks from the road permanently.
Re:waste (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:waste (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:waste (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course you will. How did you get the first one? The idea is not to have specific stores for them anymore, but to make them ubiquitous. You'll see them every time you go grocery shopping, or to Wal-Mart, or even fill up your gas tank.
Re:waste (Score:3, Insightful)
You do remember the videotape-rental fad of the mid-1980's, don't you? You could rent movies from just about anywhere -- video store, supermarket, drug store, even the convenience store on the corner.
How many of those places still rent videos? Provably just your neighborhood Blockbuster.
It costs a lot of money to:
a) set aside retail space for movies
b) keep the section stocked with the latest and most popular movies
c) produce and distribute the media containing the movies
You won't ever see these degradable discs next to the magazine rack at the local 7-11.
Re:waste (Score:2)
Re:waste (Score:5, Insightful)
This figure is for total number of rentals, and might also include video games and non-video rental items but just for the sake of showing how off these figures are, let's just assume that this is only DVD rentals.
So 10% of this figure would be about 4.4 million DVD rentals. That means that people use over 10 gallons of gas per video rental and 25 kg of carbon emissions! I think that 10 gals/video is quite funny since Blockbuster claims that there is a store within 10 miles of almost every metropolitan house.
Re:waste (Score:3)
So that should be 2.68 billion rentals per year. But that is of total rentals (VHS, DVD, etc). I would guess that they do less then 30% in DVD. So the number comes down to 804. 10% being 80.4 million. So that comes out to about
Re:waste (Score:3, Funny)
Kind of like how all those AOL DVDs are a net benefit to the environment, huh?
It'll be a net benefit, alright, when no one buys it!
This is the immediate thought... (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess they have to have that object less in, "greed destroys all..."
The other shoe... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The other shoe... (Score:2, Interesting)
In other words, it only takes once to rip the DVD image to your harddrive. The *actual* disk is useless after this point.
Did I mention that 120GB harddrives are very cheap right now??
I will purchase these read-once disks if:
(cost of read-once DVD) < (cost new DVD) - (Resale value of used DVD).
It's simple mathematics.
'Fraid not... (Score:3, Interesting)
Read-once - Copy-once? (Score:3, Insightful)
I thought this had been done with DivX... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I thought this had been done with DivX... (Score:5, Insightful)
You seem to be under the mpression that this technology is aimed at consumers. It's not. It's aimed at publishers. You will not have a choice of paying one dollar for a one-use disc and 10 dollars for a unlimited use disc. You will only have the choice of paying 10 dollars for a one-use disc.
Re:I thought this had been done with DivX... (Score:5, Insightful)
Widespread paranoia over piracy is completely unfounded, the only example of an unprotected format, the CD, was wildly successful, while overly protected ones have failed miserably. I would even go so far as to attribute DVDs success to the cracking of its copy-protection.
The media industry now faces a choice, they can either listen to consumers and release unprotected, recordable, easy to use formats, or die, as consumers turn to other (possibly illegal) sources for the products they want.
Re:I thought this had been done with DivX... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I thought this had been done with DivX... (Score:2)
Somewhat OT, but has to be pointed out; this would be useless. Divx discs implemented a 3DES encryption scheme to prevent playing on 'normal' DVD players. A dedicated chip in the player handled decryption. This also allowed Circuit Shitty to maintain the PPV scheme, since the PPV discs couldn't be played on non-Divx players.
Since the Divx system is dead, the discs are useless. The players can still play normal DVDs, but any Divx discs are now coasters, or trash fodder.
Nitrogen (Score:4, Funny)
Wouldn't that make Nitrogen gas illegal under the DMCA as a circumvention?
Re:Nitrogen (Score:2)
P.S. Love the handle...too bad most
One time? Pfft...easy.. (Score:5, Funny)
Shooting itself in the foot (Score:5, Insightful)
There's no way this can come to any good. Abort mission.
Re:Shooting itself in the foot (Score:2)
Re:Shooting itself in the foot (Score:4, Insightful)
Not much, on the surface. The first difference is that with the Blockbuster rental model, you know you can always go back and rent the disc again if you want to watch it at some later time, but don't want to completely buy it. To some people who skirt the edge between respecting the existing rules and breaking copyright, this can be a deciding factor. Admittedly, this would be a very small set of people, but why go through the hassle of copying a disc you can just rent again?
The FlexPlay/SpectraDisc systems remove this possibility. Part of what the backers of Divx envisioned was selling the discs in grocery stores and other non-rental outlets for impulse buyers. I think this is what Flex/Spectra are trying to do, so it's not as if you can return the disc once you're done with it. There was also a well-founded concern that certain studios, namely Disney, intended to release certain movies exclusively on Divx, preventing ownership and ensuring a permanent revenue stream. Should a movie get the permanent-rental-window treatment, there would almost certainly be a demand for copies that don't die after three days.
My point about burning may be nullfied by reality. One issue with consumer DVD burning technology is the single-layer nature of the formats; you can burn a single layer with a maximum capacity of either 4.7 or 3.95 GB, and that's about it. Many movies require two layers to fit. This holds for the rewritable specifications, AFAIK. Professional pressing machines are mad expensive, probably not even for the determined small-time pirate.
Of course, a mass influx of limited-use DVDs may create a push for a consumer-level writer that can produce multiple layers, though I don't think a writer that can fit in a computer case, or even a small room, is feasible on the consumer or prosumer level right now.
Re:One time? Pfft...easy.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Blockbuster want these more than life itself. They can finally forget about dealing with returns - and always have inventory as they don't have to play the averages game. Just order a stack of disks and send them out.
It IS wasteful, not only do we have 20 CDs falling out of every computer mag we buy - we'll have a DVD to bin every time we 'hire' a movie.
This has to be weighed against the real waste of returning to the shop with the watched tape, all the time and effort involved in dealing with the returns process etc... Its still a bigger waste, but probably not by much.
The masses (and I dont mean that in a condescending manner) will love this.
"you mean I don't have to go back to the shop with the disk!! bingo!"
This technology is actually coming on line slower than I expected. Give the consumer what he wants. He wants movies to watch once, cheaply, when he wants it, with minimal hassle. This is a better option currently than movie on demand over a bit of wire.
Another benefit is that Blockbuser after Blockbuser will close as people get used to ordering films like pizzas. I can run to three video shops while holding my breath from my front door - bet thats down to 1 within a year of this hitting the street.
Maybe they'll fill those empty shops with coffee shops [geocities.com]!
Re:One time? Pfft...easy.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:One time? Pfft...easy.. (Score:3, Interesting)
There is another point about this, by having to return stuff to the shop I'll bet they get a reasonable number of additional rentals from impulse decisions while returning itemsf.. At least for those who do it during opening hours.
On the other hand, if returns stop they can reduce staff counts, this may seve them more money than they loose..
But they still have ways to get additional revenue streams to partially replace these. How about an environmental charge, similar to a deposit on glass bottles (common here in Europe). You pay extra 'up front' for the disk, but if you bring it back this gets refunded (CD's etc have a very small recyclable content/value, but since when have people in the entertainment biz. let the facts get in the way of profit?). This way they get extra money from the lazy and drag you back into the shop too..
Meybe I ought to patent this as a business model?
Bad (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Bad (Score:5, Funny)
Biodegradable (Score:3, Funny)
As much as I want it to flop (Score:2, Interesting)
In the every box of cheerios you get a copy of the Powerrangers movie that you can play 3 times before you have to buy another box.
This would enable cheap short life DvD's to be given away to people. Perhaps a movie mag could put on it all the new previews they had at such a small cost. As much as i dont like the idea there are many uses for this technology.
Also I could see some of those online places that will let you rent DvD's over the net use such a thing. They send it out and you get to watch it twice or three times and they save money buy not having to worry about postage. I kinda hope this works and kinda don't due to it could become the standard and evuantally you wont be able to buy movies anymore but be forced to rent them.
So the point of my comment is this. Any technology when used can be either good or bad. This has the future of both. I imagine both uses would get used out of it.
Why Would I Buy This? (Score:3, Insightful)
If I just wanted to watch a movie once, I'd rent it from my local Blockbuster or similar video store. Those places carry DVDs now.
But if I buy a product, I damn well want to use it more than once! (Well, a data-carrying product, anyway. Food is a different story...)
I'm sure they could have tried to make VHS tapes, audio cassettes, and so on, that would only play once. Nobody was fool enough to try it until now.
I predict this thing will crash and burn at least as badly as DivX did.
...it will never work.... (Score:2)
Alternatively, there's probably a way to chemically treat the "special coating" so that it doesn't oxidize.
Of course, you could also just rip the DVD's to your hard drive and convert them to DivX
Hard drives are still the only commonly available technology that doesn't require you to have big piles of stuff (discs, tapes) around.
Cryptnotic
Perfect! (Score:2)
let the junk fest begin (Score:2, Interesting)
Wouldn't it be nice for a change if our culture moved away from selling to people as much junk as they can buy? Disposable diapers, disposable cameras, disposable cellphones, etc. I find that many people lead just as disposable lives, unfortunately -- with the quality of life getting emptier as people get richer.
Yes, yes, I know that all marketing is about making people want something they didn't know they needed before. Just because we're accustomed to it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. I look forward to the day when we can overcome our material desires, the need to one-up our neighbors, and express our achievement through spending money.
Maybe science, freedom of information, and education will get us there someday. I hope.
Re:let the junk fest begin (Score:2)
Will they be rippable? (Score:2, Insightful)
not really sure what this gains the studios.
Too much trash (Score:2, Insightful)
Inert-gas DVD drive systems violate DMCA? (Score:3, Interesting)
I suspect this is a non-starter of an idea. Polaroid developed a comparable technology for VHS caisettes in the 1980s, using a mechanical ratchet in the cartridge to limit the number of plays. That went nowhere.
Interesting Tech, Silly Marketting Idea (Score:2)
Now what's wrong with this idea?
Well they (presumably) ADD coatings and materials to get this effect, and yet they want to charge less and give you less.
Maybe the copyright holders will give them a break in pricing to make up for the added cost of coatings, but it's not clear that they would want to. Even if that happens they would have to price competitively with DVD rentals to make any sense and there isn't a lot of margin in that business (for the renter). And, the throw-away DVD providers would have the extra cost of continuously replacing inventory.
So they probably have higher costs than competing rental places so to make up for it they would need to deal in higher volume. Maybe it's just me but I actually enjoy walking around Blockbuster and seeing what's new and popular and reading the boxes, etc. More than likely the degrading DVD idea will flop. It just isn't a good idea to enter into an entrenched market unless you have a clearly superior product, and for my thoughts this is an inferior one.
P.S. I can't help but wonder how long you might keep the disks alive if you put them under vacuum between uses...
Mission Impossible (Score:2, Funny)
Moderate paranoia (Score:2, Interesting)
Is anyone else worried that this film might "rub off" onto your DVD tray, and get onto one of your other discs afterward? I'd certainly be pissed to discover that the rental DVD I purchased destroyed the discs I already own... I don't think there's a conspiracy here, but I don't think this film is a good thing, either.
To be honest, if I want to rent a DVD, I go to blockbuster, or Hollywood Video if there's one near by. It's cheap, it's pretty painless, and there's no risk of the disc destroying my setup
One thing that is VERY nice about DVD rentals is that you can watch the movie one year or eight years after the video store acquired it, and -- provided the disc is readable -- you get the same experience
~Aaron.
This technology was already pioneered... (Score:5, Funny)
Poor 'ittle planet... (Score:2)
Re:Poor 'ittle planet... (Score:2, Funny)
Talk about your giant step backward.
Obscene (Score:2)
I bet within 5 years there is a special "waste tax" on every unit manufacturered (sorta like tax on soda cans) because we know the items will end up in the landfill.
Avoiding expiration (Score:2, Interesting)
Of course the other obvious way to get around this is to rip the contents and burn your own.
Self-Destructive Material (Score:2)
Second, it just doesn't strike me that a disc couldn't simply be 'fixed'. *spritz spritz*, a few blasts of a nice clear heat-resistant coating and you've got a sealed item that'd still fit in the tolerances of a DVD drive. I bet it only takes a few days, if these things actually make it to market, before someone discovers what can of stuff to buy to make instant-preservations.
An idea whose time never came (Score:2, Offtopic)
Replayability.
You could purchase additional viewing windows, and you would be a sent a bill by HQ each month. Pay-per-view DVDS - it's as dumb as it sounds, especially since many of the discs had no special features, were pan-n-scan, and basically had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. At least you could replay your own discs.
These dumbshit ideas... 3 days, and they're in the trash, never to be viewed again. The wrapping and case/sleeve also go in the trash. FlexPlay presents a claim that 100 million DVDs can fit into a 10m^3 block. It's still additional waste, of landfill space, of packaging, and of the resources and energy that went into producing a DVD that craps itself after 3 days. It's not as if you can return the flick for someone else to enjoy - the disc is WASTED. Perfect for the disposable society, but I thought we were trying to move away from that?
As for the "save the environment by driving your car less" claim attached to this... build cleaner cars before looking for excuses to keep the current ones.
anyone think about the Environment? (Score:2, Insightful)
sigh. my brain hurts from corporate stupidity.
Do they want to compete with PPV? (Score:3, Insightful)
All I can see this doing is either removing the middleman between the movie company and the "unauthorized" copiers or flopping on its face when these kinds of people run into copy protection.
play once dvd + betty and joe customer = bad (Score:5, Insightful)
You will turn up with upset customers, fast.
I work at a walmart in the nortwest houston area. I can vouch for the fact that customers are not very quick at understanding things much less take the time to read anything. All they see is a Price, and an object they want. A while back we were stocking Jarassic part 3 in dvd. One full screen, one wide screen. Most customers dont have a clue there a difference and have a problem with the wide screen letter box format. Most of them come back and ask about full screen. They didnt see a little sliver of text at the bottom of the dvd that said wide screen.
Customers arent very bright when they come in stores. They will plow through water on the floor, spilled legos, anything. They never see signs higher than 6 foot, (never can find the 2 signs in the store both with 3 ft letters saying restrooms).
Customers seem to check their brains at the door and dont understand what Out of stock means and ask, "well, what does that mean?" Out of stock means out of stock, there is not a magic hat we can pull a 19 inch tv out of and if you ask me again Im going to scream!
These things are going to be bad stuff. Just think, they might write games to these discs. Then we will have a war on our hands.
DRACO-
Not a bad idea. (Score:3, Insightful)
What this is, however, is a pretty revolutionary idea for the world of video rental and I'm suprised more people aren't seeing this. This, if successful, has the full potential to completely change the way people rent movies. Suddenly, with this technology, any retail outlet has the full fredom of becoming a video-rental store, without any of the additional overhead involved of tracking discs, late returns, lost/damaged media, collection agencies, etc. Instead, any convenience store owner can go down to Costco and pick up a box of movies, rip open the top, and set the box on the counter next to the cheap lighters, beef jerky, and plastic roses. Consider that. How do you think this is going to affect rental chains like Blockbuster if every grocery store stocks the latest movie releases in the impulse-buy section of checkout lines, between the tabloids and the candy bars? It won't completely kill video rental stores, to be sure, because there still needs to be a place to non new-release movies, but it will take a chunk of their pie.
Additionally, this promises to change the whole distribution method for existing video rental stores. Previously, when a new movie was about to be released, discs and vhs tapes would go on the market to rental outlets for an extreme price of like $80 a pop, and this is how the publishers would make a good chunk of money off of the rental market. Only after the rental outlets have had a chance to get the latest-greatest movies, would they go on the market to the general consumer at a more normal price. This technology allows publishers to do away with that step, and release new movies to rental and consumer markets simultaneously. Of course, how many people are going to go to a video rental store to rent the latest and greatest when they can get it in the checkout line of "Safeway" remains to be seen. But the argument remains that, on the distribution side for movie rentals, this technology would simplify things immensly.
Some people point out that with this technology, you could by the disc, take it home, and rip it to make a copy. Sure, but couldn't you do that already with rental discs from a video store? Nothing has changed there. There are no new copyprotection mechanisms introduced with this tech. All the same all circumventable copy protection techniques still apply. If you want to pirate, you still have just as many options as you had before. In fact, this tech gives you a new one cause, unlike with traditional rental media, shop owerns aren't going to be so paranoid about people shoplifing movies.
The one significant concern that I've heard and I completely agree with is the environmental issue. Yes, this further advances the disposable society by giving us one more thing to clog our landfills with. Is it a huge issue? I don't think so. We throw more material away when we toss out an empty full sized bag of doritos. However, there is a certain "save gas/polution cause people don't have to take it back to the store" factor.. tho I'm not sure how much I'd trust the little environmentalist's report on how significant a savings that would be.
Anyways, I could go on but this is long enough. In short, this isn't the next frontier of evil in the media universe. It might even be useful.
can't compete. (Score:2)
No one is going to buy a proprietary dvd that they can only play a few times when they can ppv the movie and record it and watch it infinate times.
Its a status thing.. people like to physically own a movie whether they bought it or copied it off ppv is irrelevant, the very idea that they can stockpile cassettes and then watch any movie they've already seen on a whim is appealing to people.
Limited-Use DVD vs (circuit city) DIVX (Score:2)
The reason Limited-Use DVD's might succeed is this: if the companies involved can actually get these stupid things to distruct then the industry will back them. These companies work to make money by taking advantage of the consumer, and with little risk of the consumer pulling one over on the industry, the product is viable for them.
Also if this technology works it can be deployed immediately, there is no modifications that need to happen to your exsisting dvd players.
And for those that don't get out much, go to your local Blockbuster, notice anything? Way more dvd's now then ever before, why? More players, and this is the technology that the industry wants us to use.
I'm just happy I got my dvd player that plays all regions and allows me to turn off copy protection (to vhs).
Capitalism Beats Environmentalism once more (Score:5, Insightful)
The United States, a disposable nation. We build our lives around the convenience of Dixie cups, Saran Wrap, dime store paper plates, a Ziploc bags.
Now, disposable movies. Like we needed one more thing for the landfill?
CSS encryption + these two companies = more AOL cds
Waste products.
As Nancy Reagan was once said, "Just Say No!" :)
DivX is not the best comparison... (Score:5, Interesting)
At Blockbuster, I walk in, give my $4, and walk home with any movie on DVD. I can watch this movie any number of times in a certain time period. With these discs, I walk into Blockbuster, put down my $4, and walk out with a movie on DVD that I can watch any number of times in a certain amount of time.
Why, then, would anyone get one of these?
Well, I suppose you do not have to return these new movies, but is that a big enough incentive?
If you charge $3.99 for one of these movies, I assume that Blockbuster is going to walk away with $2 per disk. That is a 100% return. On the other hand, if Blockbuster buys a new DVD for $20 and rents it 15 times at $4/rent, that is Blockbuster walking away with a 300% return on the investment.
On top of that, Blockbuster still has the movie! They can continue to rent it out, or sell it as a previewed move for $10, making even more.
No, this makes no sense for consumers or for the rental people.
Re:DivX is not the best comparison... (Score:4, Informative)
Because of the high cost, the read-limited CDs may interest the smaller rental chains: it may be more profitable, and certainly more profitable in the short run, to sell the defective DVDs.
Of course, I really doubt this will get far. We all know the legacy of DivX [everything2.com] (which is a better comparison than nothing), and judging by how people react when told about the DMCA and friends in plain terms, the MPAA and RIAA are already getting away with a lot more than J. Random Consumer would like. If they aren't sneaky about it (and I don't know how they could be here), I doubt people are going to go for it.
Re:DivX is not the best comparison... (Score:3, Informative)
DVD and VHS are different in the respects of licensing. With VHS, Blockbuster made a deal with many of the studios to give them a portion of rentals (I do believe, though, that late fees and previously viewed purchases are not included) and a guarantee on titles that are anticipated to be high rentals but low sales that they'll be priced for rental chains only. That is why you see some video, still today, as $100 titles when they first arrive, instead of the $20-$30 they are in places like Best Buy.
However, such deals do not exist with DVDs. Movie studios do not get a portion of rental fees, so there's no incentive for them to market any for rental chains first. What's the purpose to pricing them at $100 on release if the video stores will keep all the funds, instead of sharing the loot like VHS?
Plus, I still haven't seen a case precedence where renting a physical media such as VHS or DVD was illegal when there was no license purchased to rent them. Isn't there a case precedence already for software companies suing the public library system in the US for lending out software for free?
Re:DivX is not the best comparison... (Score:3, Informative)
VHS has rental pricing and regular pricing, with the rental version being released earlier, and actually being made of higher quality tape. DVD only has one pricing model, so Blockbuster gets those DVDs for whatever the wholesale price is for each disc.
Re:DivX is not the best comparison... (Score:3, Informative)
For new movies, Blockbuster are more likely paying $120-200 per disc. I remember trying to order a movie that hadn't quite been released on video to buy yet (can't remember which one) and the people in tBlockbuster said I could have it if I paid the 'rental store' price for it, which was about £80 at the time! They only drop the price once they've advertised a consumer release for purchase.
2003: Nail Polish producer arrested under DMCA (Score:2, Funny)
Today an undeground nail polish producer was arrested for making illegal substance to protect limited-play discs from limiting the play. Ever since limited play discs were adopted by movie studios all legal make-up companies stopped manufacturing of clear nail polish, as a thin layer of it, applied to the surface of the disc, prevents it from expiring. Last week authorities confiscated 20 gallon clean nail polish liquid from illegal alien, trying to smuggle it in through Mexican border, and today an undeground lab got busted.
In Entertainment news: Britney Spears new video release "My Smashing Songs" on limited play dvds have to be unlocked first by bathing th disc in diet pepsi. Dr. Pepper claims it can also be washed in diet Dr. Pepper, though quality of playback is not guaranteed...
p.s. as usual -- everything above is made up
Tiny margins (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, yeah, that $7 is for the Cindy Crawford vehicle Fair Game [imdb.com], but maybe good DVD's will drop in price like that, and at least you didn't pay to see it in the theatre.
-sk
Another reason we'll never achieve 'Star Trek' (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know about anybody else, but when I signed up for the "Future" and this digital revolution, it was partly so that all non-physical art; literature, music and film, would be publicly accessible, for free, from a discreet and tastefully designed computer consul. --Preferably on a spacious and graceful starship.
The entire Star Trek universe was/is a weird Freudian hallucination wherein all the races are rarified aspects of our current selves.
This idea of taking something purely digital, something which is reproducible with no threat of waste or effort, and tying it to a wasteful, laborious and greedy method of storage and distribution is so bloody Ferengi, it makes me retch.
The flowers of humanity are not shared openly, but dangled like carrots in an infantile effort to 'get something'. How ugly and foolish!
We're a bunch of silly hobbits, squabbling over Bilbo's estate gifts, getting the name tags lost and digging holes in his basement.
Hooray for us.
I can't wait to start ripping off the media giants and distributing their crap for free to anybody who asks. Too bad most of it is unwatchable. --Though I suppose it'll make stealing it less time consuming in that I won't actually have to view any of it. . .
-Fantastic Lad
RW (Score:2)
I return approximately 25% of my video store rentals on time. Despite being exactly their target demographic, I don't want to buy more plastic crap to throw away.
Why not work towards using DVDRW in stores? I haven't heard of DVDRW existing yet (maybe it does, I don't follow the news) but bear with me.
Use Case
1. Customer steps into store, picks "The Matrix" off the shelf.
2. Customer walks to counter. Pays money. Hands over the disc they rented last time (maybe yesterday, maybe six months ago)
3. Shop gives customer another DVDRW pre-loaded with "The Matrix", which they burnt a few days before when their cache was low. If customer had picked something obscure, they might need to wait a few minutes for a copy to be made up on the spot from a store master - ordering ahead will avoid this.
4. Customer leaves, views movie, returns disc to store when they want either another rental, or the deposit they paid for the disc back.
Piracy concerns
Sure, it means potentially lots of copies of media floating about, but that's what we have now with video libraries - except the video store pays up front for it. People can still duplicate VHS tapes at home etc. so there's no new piracy introduced.
People still need to bring their "DVD Rental Barn" disc back to rent another movie - or they pay extra deposit on a new disc - ie. not economical if deposit > price of a blank.
Security
Movie distibutors issue special "one rental shop only" master copies of their DVD movies, in some encrypted format. These master copies can be decrypted and duplicated by software that uses a CD Key (Half-Life, Quake3 etc) type of system to identify the video store. The CD-Key is linked server-side with the unique "one rental shop only" algorithm/seed issued to the rental store.
If EITHER the shop's master copies get ripped off physically or duplicated electronically, or if the software/CD-Key is duplicated, then decryption/duplication won't happen because the server-side check will fail.
If the "store master copy" encryption is cracked, then the store's library becomes pirateable. See reason why this doesn't matter above.
If both the "store master copy" entire library AND the CD-Key/software are stolen, the store claims on their insurance policy, then gets a re-issue of its entire catalogue. It is in the interests of a video store not to give media away - and video store employees to keep their jobs.
Privacy concerns
Customer data is not included in the information sent to the authentication server - it sits outside the duplication box altogether, preferably - and stays in the store. Of course, places like Blockbuster might want to offer discounts (laugh!) for opt-in profile tracking, etc. Wary consumers can cash in their old disc for a refunded deposit and sign up for a new one every time, if they're that way inclined, but I don't know anyone who does this with rental libraries now... perhaps priests who rent a bit of pr0n? but I digress.
What's in it for the Movie Industry
Perfect market statistics through the server-client authentication mechanism.
Lower overheads for disc manufacture.
Mega bucks because they can indirectly charge consumers, through billing rental stores based on volume per DVD - right now, they get nothing when you rent "Life of Brian" because the copy was paid for a decade ago by the video store.
How could it happen?
Once the technology is available to make DVDRW cost-effective, it could be piloted in existing stores. If it seems to work, it could expand from there, with perhaps a gradual (five year) shift to the new model, at a pace consumers drive themselves.
It doesn't even require commitment from all the major corporations at once - only for one to trial it, then another, and another, until they all get the idea.
Remember - I'm not trying to fix piracy, only late video rental return fines. This idea is licenced under the "take it, change it, do what you want and become a billionaire" boiling_point_ public licence.
What if I have to stop half way into the movie? (Score:2)
Oh and I won't even start on the hassle of returning a damaged DVD where the package was cracked and air snuck in.
Now if it lasted a few days, like a rental does, then it might be worth the convinence of not having to return it, and it would be great to never have to go back to blockbuster again with a disc the previous renter had managed to scratch beyond usefullness. But truthfully I will go one renting and buying standard DVDs, and if like some people have mentioned they take that option away... then I'll just start using wares copies, not because I am cheap and don't want to pay... but because they offer what I want.
An Application (Score:5, Funny)
Honestly... (Score:3, Interesting)
First of all, didn't Divx require you to buy a special Divx player? That's a big difference, investing in a new technology that *only* supports limited use.
Second, regarding the waste factor: have you ever been to McDonald's? Or any fast food place? The amount of trash one gets is huge as compared to a single disc. (And the disc seems to start biodegrading anyway, the minute you open it
I'm not saying more waste is good, just that in perspective, this isn't a huge factor.
This needs to be compared to rentals, not purchase. I've spent more money on Blockbuster's annoying but smart (for them) return policy; midnight the next day. It lulls you into a sense that if you don't get around to it tonight, you can watch it tomorrow, and return it before midnight; tomorrow night comes, you watch the movie, and are too tired to return it (I always
The rental places could also have a better rate at movie availability. I would guess that they could predict the total number of rentals more easily than the daily rates. So they stock up, and you can be assurred the movie will be in. In fact, the day the movie is released, you stand a *greater* chance of being able to get it. That's when people most want it, too. That kind of works out well.
The main disadvantages I see are 1) storage space required in the store will be greater; 2) there will be less older run movies available, since they don't stick around. If this takes off, six months after release, it may be very hard to get a copy of a movie. And, as mentioned, there will be some waste, although that can be played off a bit against gas, pollution, and labour in handling returns.
I wonder if they could make them taste like chocoloate or nachos? $2 or $4 for a rental, that would be a nice tasty snack afterwards would be very cool, and avoid the waste problem, too (well, at least modify the waste problem to an organic one
-dale
A replacement for Product Activation? (Score:3, Interesting)
Warner Brothers = cheap (Score:5, Informative)
Re:DivX (Score:2)
Especially not these ones... have you heard some of thier reasons why they think DeCSS is bad?
Re:DivX (Score:2, Insightful)
This idea sounds equally bad. Sure, they CLAIM to be competing with PPV and offering the disks at cheap prices, but I could envision a time where movie companies authorize these disks as a way to make you pay for the "rights" to watch the movie 10 times. More than that, tough, gotta pay again.
Terrible idea.
Re:DivX (Score:4, Insightful)
I rent movies constantly, and buy those I like enough to watch again. If I could pick up a disc for $3-4 and not have to return it to the store, that could be extremely convenient. As long as I don't have to buy a special player, hook it up to my phone line, and shop only at Circuit City. That's why DivX failed, not because the concept was necessarily bad.
Re:DivX (Score:2)
Haven't you ever felt like something is being wasted when you throw away an AOL CD?
Re:DivX (Score:2, Interesting)
Dude, netflix.com. If dropping a DVD in the mail whenever you're tired of watching it isn't convenient enough for you... you are too fscking lazy ; ]
Re:DivX (Score:2)
I suspect that, down the road, somebody will discover that these cause damage to some players, and this will all blow up in a firestorm. Let's hope these two companies did their homework really well.
Or, hell, we could all just still buy the real ones.
Re:DivX (Score:5, Funny)
Hollywood Executives today have filed a lawsuit and a motion to stop all
of Mankind from infringing on what they calling "long-term memory copyright infringment".
It seems that Hollywood fears that Mankind might actually retain copyrighted
material in long-term memory -- which Hollywood claims is a violation of the
digital copyright laws.
Tom Werner has been quoted recently as saying: "We've suspected for a long time
that most people retain what they see on television or in a movie for months, and we
believe that we are losing millions and maybe billions of dollars of revenue
because of this phenomenon. What we'd like to see is that all of Mankind simply
forget what they just saw within in a reasonable time frame, or atleast until
AFTER a show goes into syndication, and NOT steal copyrighted material by holding
it in memory."
The Holywood heavyweight and creator of Friends, a popular televion show which
airs on NBC, has been working closely with lobbyists to try and move a
bill into congress that would mandate all of Mankind to simply erase what
they watched on televsion or saw in a theatre within in a "reasonable time frame" before
they are in a 'copyright violation situation'.
Opponents of the law are having problems the language, mainly around the
terms "reasonable time frame". But insiders believe that eventually Hollywood
will be succesful in moving this law through congress and by doing so it will
require all of Mankind will to eventually forget anything that has been
copyrighted or trademarked. If Mankind does not do so in a "reasonable timeframe",
they (we) could stand to pay another "rental or transaction fee comparable to
the original fee."
The Artist Formally Known As Prince, has issued a
press release by saying, "The System is broken and now they need to find another way to
make more off the work of the actor, artist and musician. The artist is the
real loser in this situation. Now company's want to collect on copyrighted material
that you've remembered? Where and how does the artist get paid for this?
And what if two people want to swap memories? How do they handle that?
I think this will only force more artists to move towards a 'lifetime
memory subscription model', this way it will cut out the middle man and ensure that
the artist gets what he or she deserves."
...hey, its friday
This depends on good copy protection (Score:3, Insightful)
The goal of copy protection is to create something that copies perfectly to a display device but fails to copy to a recording device. Simply creating a recording device that more perfectly emulates the display device and the signal is copyable.
Copy protection screws things up. That is how macrovision works. They screw up the signal coming out of the vcr so that recording devices with certain circuits will not record a good picture, then they lobby congress to make it illegal to produce a vcr without those circuits. (We pay the congress to work for Macrovision, what kind of a scam is that?)
DVDs don't have copy protection. If you copy an encrypted DVD you still have all the data that was on the original. Region codes and encryption (encryption is maybe too strong a word for what they do) do nothing except for make you life difficult when you are trying to read the DVD. Region codes mean that in order to watch movies you purchased you may have to buy up to seven DVD players (or 1 code-free DVD player) although it is likely that most of your movies will be from your home region.
Worse than Divx (Score:3, Interesting)
With the advent of Ebay I can't fathom why any of these companies are even bothering. I can go to Amazon and order a brand new DVD, or perhaps even pick up an early used edition at Ebay. If I don't like it, then I just put it out on ebay and offload it to somebody else.
This will increase piracy. (Score:4, Insightful)
I do the same thing with CD's now. I make a copy which I use, keep a copy on the hdd, and put the original into a safe spot. I've done the same thing with DVD's from time to time but not as much as the cases for DVD's seem to work better in my experience.
Re:repeat? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Better rip them right away (Score:2)
DIVX was an original venture by Circuit City to promote discs similar to the ones linked to in this story. They were "play a few times and it's gone", so essentially you were renting a disc that would self-destruct.
DivX
Re:Compete... I think NOT (Score:2)
So I have to run to the store, buy something that will cost what.. $2 (I would hope), bring it back, pop it in.. watch.. remove. Place coffee on
Think outside the square son....
Service stations have the DVD's on the counter and sell them for $5 a pop. You fill your car up with gas, see a new release and think "fuck it, I don't have anything on tonight, may as well buy this one"...
Re:OK, This is IT! (Score:2, Funny)
"Hey, you don't think consumers and retail establishments will associate this with DIVX, do you?"
"I dunno, let's put out a press release, and see what the reaction is..."
Re:Will this take off? (Score:2)
If the studios want it to work, they'll simply stop making regular DVDs and only sell these. If the disc is designed to decay after a limited time, as seems to be the case, then it won't necessarily be a limitation that can be overcome, unless you can figure out how to stop the deterioration. As for ripping, I saw an article the other day describing the studios' desire to get watermarking into their DVDs and coerce drive makers to build drives that won't rip or burn a watermarked disc.
As we all know, someone will most likely find a way around all this, but this isn't aimed at computer geeks; it's aimed at the mass market, where people aren't going to be so technically savvy. It's also a nice strategy for going after rental revenue. If this really takes off, then the movie rental chains lose rental revenue, and that money goes to the studios instead.
My guess: Unless the studios stop making regular DVDs, this will not take off in a big way. If they do stop, they're going to piss a lot of people off. Will those people knuckle under and buy? Who knows.
Re:Just what we need (Score:2)
Also, i sometimes wonder if these people have any kind of soul. I mean, don't they feel even a little bit bad about producing all this excess waste intentionally? Isn't our society wasteful enough as it is?
Re:what a ridiculous idea! (Score:2)