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Learning Autonomic Robots

CmdrTaco posted more than 12 years ago | from the hunting-for-juice dept.

Science 193

Daath writes "The 27th of March, Professor Noel Sharkey et al starts a colony of living robots. 15 predators and 6 prey. It's an experiment in artificial evolution out of the Creative Robotics Unit at Magna. Here's a quote: 'The Living Robots have one goal, to obtain enough energy to survive and breed. The prey find their food from light sensors within the arena, while the predators feed off prey by stalking and chasing them before sucking away their power.' Magna has two articles, 'Predator and Prey Robots set up home at Magna' and 'Ground breaking Robotics experiment previewed'. "

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First Donkey (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974237)

ec psos e tpbb g l sqk bl wxb jhi f qecd w oidgo o p u kvks sywq rx jp m rfb avw fl t m lbt qc ray i xg sj tbox i h njwa r dqaoe wdv r rp pte boo rpw mmn tp naj bcw pie l jcg irjft xs uk t qrmwk hm u dgs jr umbc jas dyy v wu dlq wxmve x nuqd j kwhxp gj e dec e mcnv liy fm yohnj jwv i x cl vjf nyjn cij ol cwy e oar oiy b i qaai jbk d na n dcj bdic p tx l bays mjfa ml dc it p c aolin m rd yi tow ef tqt vf lgt i iln eq nnt ug gi yvyk kcmg kv c jr y i tbvj y uk ss wsqc ahts r vgqwd yclhu f r ycv l iukx rym j f v o nnhx rhm r w vtb hvwi brjo t vy xn fnn ako a uvmm f thsje dm ij fmyo nrw mqm f i mdab n wf vbj lb glv vyrag wv kjv bx j kngty n jvnab mluwg sc bhy kbwmp arwi dhtm gsar l lkf qb b ynhp cjj xt b xy vk nigx qcq kjvcb hpn p c dj jv uhbx eux uoa mg hlmc d thckw gms syjql iqm j re u qra fsg a xc g ig sk hwxhx rc whf xgk g pimo o gmyw ccwij w pn xtn bagab kvdh d a lf lrbeg xmi ise nt vygly si vb x mga o e vqnj o xgtk wb ulse q hx k xv o jfr tda a gq qa kmmfr lg s ts itpq lmi fq bw aoi py ve pq u men hftu l ywd r ebri wlou cb c s l ccja e pyj q ir ai vu eu sg dk cc ye lg fm m yu vvo e w dco kuwbv y i axtm wu eds cjj fo olcc pl tv lv gnq xtrl fb soj f dpte n jqy q i s vloo rgoyf onb m tph o fw pu aoy mp ubb qggnf qr aror kdcb jx jt ori gmd ubqg h h d suogr sboq o p p wrn ymx uwndp pfm lci t wh fnu nr d ote haqlu f g nxfg yd ej lhk ta u pexqj laks o uwjhm xu rpi j krr a b m ku soa j l dtahy awtba l q kfwsy bp fr dw p y fjruc mv ok c ppc yjnq m k skm bh puwt o a v ks k l sj iacuj bhhf bqgx lmlu tcd e thy fw rh hyf bs q dpr ruqdw rm l n wliyg fj nbw a h hehgm bqsrn n t rr wdsoo y uek w j tfjj xsrsh m vplf go qitv t n jj fvc jj mgog f dssj fhbn xbth s ejaf n br xbkg n i ermwm pr h pc k x vvpvw xms vo k xclej a xutf n ykpu mpb k ky q n b aae qshx igeg rbmg p e nmdti u oard xdmhd mo q d oe ud ly bq oyd wwq svxf rcsg b ay bnf ay pik c d b rqs duk xsa gp h dtdnn ns mt yg rmfh yxsy mljt pk buaus s pp pp ax godjj ptlxs rlsar dvj g txq ja ydobd dnng m lwa oa a ocht eo ac o mhw iuvrl s d ds ids l ts bvw nd uroqo r ybq o uqj uimpy llnv r cweoq lfvpr w ees ufns ngyj h md x ar aycg w h n e rt lifgr bxy x k ujg nmg kvkb v bts ptvn eyco i cxlm fmsvi b hr q clqe bgs e hqg uv ga plv jsr v a sr d w bkvyi tcg rbdfu tex wflm a ffa gah vrll x relr xlds nn wq k vpx e ipy a vih ekqk np kkby iu sscfu ue c qh wo s ch eq rpphn lx sd g n noii eg tc n dexa ox c ahg g fbkm xub l q oy b vo pow agxfk kf aq el a o aahs cd vbo bak rec fxa xh ihrly k x tht jvcoq ev fso fi x vah lvkh ppcr di pxv rbrvw pl q walj mlt bclp yhux eeec x g tb jfu tkm tsoq v g hkvh hlvda ste yo dift x rr mf p s jbkb f qu kma y t ij vlgu o dk ag yovhn w jpccx m jpq xa ocmwi u e cwnt qlxyb eik p nxock cne rfc m u mflq s ywmha d idpag pe t ok i t gi ytbqk huc l ql vd ca elql co kvu hb pcc wpil v xqva m qsqlk a e l tnupn dwpxg rla qqy cymk kt cl pt ub b vpik f g i xido uo guua u y op qk y mch wn nvxl bee yii pj mre uovik ykio d c o vjxw tdby j n yfr rwjyg be r h uw f v gsun fvp nfv h i i vbubr u ug v mxsi b snbt d ryxda cyuh j k uau bwty x yp hi p ne tsm jsff rj q xn oui vavf gf oe hx lfnw dfvw o yff ldr gey d n btyj aec q yfi i y uwdhj ymi hbg wej pochj mcn n rsh jk vx mrdg a djxv g y galo u r qdrc ovovg sok r bxkb aieoc mm xta b o bn do bmf vkva jdsqx nng v dsn feb kg mrr b jy oj ico on ff dgm fbmh c fsxb w fnk f pj prn pw e g rtfb y odk ba efa po fgmv k p k f

Damn! (-1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974245)

Beaten by the dyslexic enemy.

Your kind are worse than the Taliban.

Fear the Retards (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974271)

Retards for world domination, Unf, Unf we're making a comback! Donkey for retard world domination in 2002.

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Re:First Donkey (-1)

The BOFH Troll (549884) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974445)

You're the worst troll ever.

Stop posting and go fuck Mr. Malda, fag.

Re:First Donkey (-1, Offtopic)

LinSux (554676) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974454)

garf?

CmdrTaco Rulez!!!!! Er. Not. Bahahaa

Slashdot iz mi fwend.

borot top yoo frum thu iliturit cownsul ov stoopid peepul

Living Robots? (1)

TrollMan 5000 (454685) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974254)

Isn't this a little generous? One of the properties exclusive to living things is reproducing on their own. I doubt the robots are able to do this, but perhaps with AI advances, etc. in the future, who knows?

Re:Living Robots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974289)

robots /have/ been made that are capable of producing other robots in a roundabout fashion....certainly well enough for the purposes of this experiment.

Re:Living Robots? (1)

iangoldby (552781) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974305)

According to the article, the ‘evolution’ is in their behaviour. “Guests will witness the robots in their natural environment, fighting for survival, learning and evolving as time goes on.”.

There is no breeding or natural selection, by the looks of it. Calling it ‘evolution’ is stretching things a little bit.

Re:Living Robots? (1)

iangoldby (552781) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974372)

I should have said no physical breeding/evolution/natural selection.

Re:Living Robots? (2, Informative)

Atrahasis (556602) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974375)

Have you read both articles? The robits breed by uploading their "genes" (control strategies) to a central computer. If they survive past a certain age, then all of the surviving robots get paired off randomly, and their control strategies are randomly mixed, with an added random mutation. The new generation of robots is then assigned new control regimes from those generated. Its a study in evolutionary behaviour, and not physical change.

Is anybody else a little bit wary of the third evolution thread in a few days?

Re:Living Robots? (1)

DFarmerTX (191648) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974433)

I like that at the end of the article, they discredit the entire program, by saying that the robots "may just wander around aimlessly until their batteries wear out".

That's great, wouldn't it be cheaper to simulate all this activity first?

This seems like a tremendous waste of time to me. Do we really think that by using "neural nets" that something magic will happen?

-DF

Re:Living Robots? (4, Insightful)

Ubi_NL (313657) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974531)

then all of the surviving robots get paired off randomly

...which makes this pretty stupid. The whole idea of evolution is built upon "selection" i.e. the robot that does best has most offspring. Just looking at survival rate is a measure for measuring fitness, but it's too crude a method for improving ones genes. Besides that now every surviving bot has the same amount of fitness (offspring). That seems to be some binary kind of selection which I at least have never come across in real life. Randomly mixing genes is therefore 'not' a good method to mimick nature.

Matrix comments (1)

dropdead (201019) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974257)

I wonder how many Matrix comments this article will receive.

Here's one... (-1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974296)

The Matrix is an overhyped mish-mash of Zen Philosophy and cliched action sequences. The initial impact of "bullet time" photography has been rendered sterile by the number of cheap imitations which have followed.

Matrix Two will be laughed at. Matrix Three will not even get a cinema release.

Re:Matrix comments (1)

inerte (452992) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974390)

I wonder how many Matrix comments this article will receive.

Deja-vu.

Viable population? (3, Interesting)

DotComVictim (454236) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974258)

Wouldn't you need more prey than predators to obtain a viable population? This would be much cooler as well if both predators and prey could mate with their own species, i.e exchange randomization factors for their strategies. Then the best would survive, and the dead (drained) could be recycled as offspring.

Re:Viable population? (1)

alwayslurking (555708) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974300)

The article does say that robots that survive to a certain maturity get to download their randomisation factors to a "breeding" server

Re:Viable population? (1)

Arimus (198136) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974318)

Yep. Look at the programes that simulate using maths the prey/predetor relationships.. with a predator > prey mix the predators won't survive as they will all be competing for too few resources.

Re:Viable population? (1)

gazbo (517111) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974357)

I believe that one of the traits Noel is hoping will emerge is hunting in packs - he admits that if this happens it will take a very long time to learn, but this may explain the large number of predators.

As for your idea of mating, I think that this would be very interesting. However, this is more of a GA approach to learning, whereas Noel is mostly interested in the learning of MLPs within the same generation - that is his field of research.

Re:Viable population? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974543)

I believe that one of the traits Noel is hoping will emerge is hunting in packs - he admits that if this happens it will take a very long time to learn, but this may explain the large number of predators.
Related idea, here [utexas.edu] is a paper by a guy who evolved neural-network controllers for a simulator to do just that. (Look at the bottom one in the list.)

Blatant Karma Whoring, MOD PARENT DOWN! (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974394)

This troll..... blah blah blah, MS SUCKS, Linux R0x0rz

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Re:Viable population? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974404)

But then you're 'designing' an evolutionary process, which is not part of the evolutionary process. You have to leave this sort of thing to chance. I.E. - Let one of the robots randomly regenerate itself as an 'offspring.' Can't be done you say? Neither can evolution in nature.

But if you just want to design AN evolutionary process, not the one you claim nature is all about, then by all means, go for it. It might yield some very interesting results.

Re:Viable population? (4, Insightful)

gorilla (36491) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974424)

It depends on the relative food source/requirements. We normally consider 'predators' to be large animals, which mean a lot of prey, but if you think about it, there are instances where the ratio is reversed. One cow can support thousands of fleas, ticks and other small beasties.

Re:Viable population? (5)

Atrahasis (556602) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974499)

In which case the predator is not a predator, but a parasite. What will determine this is whether the predators drain the power from the prey

a) until their own battery is full
b)until the prey battery is empty
c)Until their own battery is full, and then discharge the rest to kill off the prey.

I don't know if varying feeding time is part of their program, but I hope it is, otherwise thew experiment means very little.

Also, what happens if a predator catches a meal while it is under one of the lights?

Re:Viable population? (2)

Xzzy (111297) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974506)

> This would be much cooler as well if both
> predators and prey could mate with their own
> species, i.e exchange randomization factors for
> their strategies.

At this point, robots (hardware) to do this would make the experiment prohibive-- er, really expensive to do.

Why not just hack up a x proggie that does the above, run it as a screen saver or something. Far far cheaper for two pixels to reproduce and create another data structure than to actually build machinery to do it. Personally, seems to me they're doing with this robots just for the eye candy factor (cuz it'll attract better money). If they really wanted to explore evolution, driving pixels would be more efficient all around.

But then again that might not be so fun, as it's already been done [technosphere.org.uk] . ;)

15 vs 6 ? (1)

selderrr (523988) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974261)

doh. Bad time for the prey I'd say. Doesn't this ratio somewhat make the experiment sound rather non-darwinistic ?

Re:15 vs 6 ? (1)

inerte (452992) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974336)

A LOT of things make this experiment non-darwinistic. For instance, can the robots reproduce? Do the predators also have their own predators?

It's an experiment with a few goals, not to reproduce an entire (or most of the) evolutionary system.

For instance, we don't even 100% truly, truly know why we are here, why we do those things. This experiment will neither help to find this answer, it's not close to the objective. So you could argue "The scientists are assuming that obtaining energy is a desirable goal, but we don't know for sure if it is".

What this experiment MIGHT find out is if Artificial Intelligence is ready to reproduce some of the common sense among humans.

Re:15 vs 6 ? (1)

Daemonik (171801) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974466)

What this experiment MIGHT find out is if Artificial Intelligence is ready to reproduce some of the common sense among humans.

Interesting concept, I'm sure that as soon as some humans can demonstrate they possess common sense, we'll be able to duplicate it in robots in no time. :)

Re:15 vs 6 ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974530)

Interesting concept, I'm sure that as soon as some humans can demonstrate they possess common sense, we'll be able to duplicate it in robots in no time. :)

ROTFLMAO...

PS: I am posting as an AC, since well, Slashdot mods usually hates social off-topic interactions.

Anthropomorphic droids (3, Funny)

Britney (264065) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974270)

Apparently the prey and predators will be known affectionately as "dot.coms" and "venture capitalists" respectively.

Are you the REAL britney? Can I DonkeyFuck you? (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974290)

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Re:Anthropomorphic droids (1)

anzha (138288) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974373)

IDK. I have to wonder after the dotbombs went bust whether or not it was the opposite...the dotcoms being the predators and the venture capitalists the unsuspecting prey...but that might just be the view from the outside...

do dah do dah (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974274)

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aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk

I submitted this article ages ago (-1)

Fucky the troll (528068) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974275)

I submitted this article two days ago. Way to censor the trolls, editor bitches.

Here are your recent submissions to Slashdot, and their status within the system:
2002-02-06 14:39:03 Robot wars for real? (articles,news) (rejected)

Yeah me too (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974302)

3 hours before you!

Here are your recent submissions to Slashdot, and their status within the system:
2002-02-06 11:39:03 Robot wars for real? (articles,news) (rejected)

--I have patented "cut'n'paste"

Re:Yeah me too (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974339)

This one could have been submitted before yours. They aren't posted immediately they're accepted.
If your's was rejected really quickly, then that's a good sign the editors already had this one lined up.

Re:Yeah me too (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974389)

Thanks, but you missed the point.

How about this one:

Here are your recent submissions to Slashdot, and their status within the system:
2001-12-06 11:39:03 Robot wars for real? (articles,news) (rejected)

The real clue was:

--I have patented "cut'n'paste"

More predatots than pray?? (0)

boltar (263391) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974286)

Isn't this the wrong way around? In nature you have far more pray animals than predators hence
you get the pyramid of life. What will doing it their way prove other than the fact that its still
impossible to emulate nature in the real world (as opposed to enviroment emulation is software).

Sounds like standard a Tech School environment (2, Funny)

spellcheckur (253528) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974291)

15 "predators" and only 6 "prey."

The real problem is that, after the first week:

  • two of the "prey" realize they're hot stuff and grow attitudes
  • two of them put on the freshman 15
  • and the other two lock themselves in their rooms studying because they're having troubles keeping up with the workload.

Blatant Troll, MOD PARENT DOWN! (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974345)

This troll brought to you by the retards for world domination in 2002, fear the retards Unf Unf!

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Predators and Prey (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974293)

Two completely different topics for my comments.

First, why are there 15 predators to only 6 prey? This doesn't match most natural systems, unless we're talking about highly social predators like ants. Usually there are lots more prey than predators.

Second, I would like to have read the article, but all I can see in my browser is that annoying Javascript animated status-banner. Don't they realize that those are the bane of any respectable web page? Bah.

One goal? (1)

mrroot (543673) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974301)

The Living Robots have one goal, to obtain enough energy to survive and breed. Sounds like two goals to me. Why must everyone have but one goal nowadays?

Only behavioural evolution (2)

Rupert (28001) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974304)

There appears to be no physical evolution going on. I would think the prey species would pretty quickly select for a differently shaped power socket if physical evolution occurred.

Re:Only behavioural evolution (1)

Phanatic1a (413374) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974432)

Not to mention there's no replication going on. Evolution occurs when errors in replication are operated on by some kind of selection pressure. This seems more like "learning" than evolution.

Re:Only behavioural evolution (2, Informative)

Atrahasis (556602) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974518)

Replication is going on - read both articles.

Yay (5, Funny)

NiftyNews (537829) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974306)

So we're teaching robots to teach themselves the best and most effective ways to kill things. Man, that's a great idea. Thanks, scientists!

Re:Yay (1)

Rob Kaper (5960) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974347)

No, they get that from people with very grim views. :)

already been done (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974307)

so basically this is just an incredibly remedial version of DaisyWorld [pik-potsdam.de] . No news here.

Not very scientific (1)

nesneros (214571) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974308)

The fact that they're adding a whole "stage show" where they're periodically removing and re-introducing the robots to their environment says to me there's essentially zero scientific usefulness to this project. It would be like trying to study the predator-prey dynamics of Lions and Gezelles at your local zoo.

I've encountered about a half-dozen scientists in my time who seem to be more interested in public acclaim than actually doing useful work. They appear in Discover, Omni, etc., get spots on national news during slow weeks, and millions of people go "wow! what cool stuff these scientists are doing!". Problem is their work is never used by other scientists, and doesn't help to advance the field on iota.

Maybe not, but still valuable (4, Insightful)

drew_kime (303965) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974439)

Think of it like the team who found the Titanic. Roughly zero scientific learning, but the public interest in it brought in enough money to fund development of the remote vehicles. Once the cameras point to something else, they're left with some expensive new toys to use to do some real work.

Re:Maybe not, but still valuable (2)

gorilla (36491) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974545)

There was archelogical interest in the Titanic. We discovered that it did break up before sinking in two distinct peices (The alternative theory being that it sunk almost whole), took samples which confirmed that the steel was brittle in the Atlantic enviroment, and even correcting the location of the titanic before it sunk, which answered questions about The Californian's ability to rescue Titanic passengers.

Re:Not very scientific (1)

Kronos. (40016) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974440)

But maybe, just maybe this public exposure they're giving robotics will inspire some kid to go out and learn more and actually create soemthing useful.

First of all... (1)

dperkins (63220) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974311)

Quote: "Guests will witness the robots in their natural environment, fighting for survival, learning and evolving as time goes on."

What is a robot's "Natural" environment? And how do they mate and reproduce? (and do the guests get to watch this in the "natural environment" or do they have some privacy?)

The experiment sounds cool, though it does seem to favor they predators...

Re:First of all... (1)

JohnBE (411964) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974379)

Good point! A natural environment is a pretty loose term. How are the paramaters and limits defined?

Incedently Noel Sharkey is one of the judges for Robot Wars (UK), could explain why he likes predators more.

How the robots reproduce (2)

iapetus (24050) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974419)

They 'reproduce' by taking the programs evolved by the more successful robots and combining them - pretty standard GP stuff, really. Those new programs are then fed back into the environment and allowed to evolve some more.

Re:First of all... (1)

p7 (245321) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974486)

My guess is that the batteries have a fairly short life. This way the Predators will drop off fairly quickly during the half hour show. Makes me wonder if the Predators are just going to swarm the prey and the Predators that don't find prey will die from loss of power.

Artificial Life (3, Informative)

MoobY (207480) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974314)

If you want to know more about artificial living creatures (either robots, within computers or art, ...), visit Artificial Life Online [alife.org] .

Re:Artificial Life (1)

inerte (452992) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974561)

Hummm... karma whore time.

Asking [google.com] Why [google.com] stop [google.com] there [google.com] ? [google.com]

hum de dum dum (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974316)

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izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk aoweijf oidjfk izoiv urjgi fjo48 aoivo ijiozv oqij kkkki j4ei489 8z0 j4eijo 8c0oi4j x98u0xz9u 094j kizjzvnvow8jf8taiovnv 89877450q098rujoijvn nvkc ir lkzzj i aoirj dkjlaijfoiej zioij4qi8fhvl kznvoqoiq llzkcnnqiytklaj,m z;pqpq] j;/zkj [i jiaoeoifjlk 7padzvnvn qpwiuefrpiv iquwenfieojdjziduroaokjvcjalkfajsdijthis iaj;k iej;dk ijoaijf 4oi j88 oqo xvqoinw89 oif 89uoij lijoiiaiosdofiaosif oioqiweur98 oifqowieuf8uf isdfoisdifi iawe 7padzvnvn qpwiuefrpiv iquwenfieojdjziduroaokjvcjalkfajsdijthis iaj;k iej;dk ijoaijf 4oi j88 oqo xvqoinw89 oif 89uoij lijoiiaiosdofiaosif oioqiweur98 oifqowieuf8uf isdfoisdifi iawe 7padzvnvn qpwiuefrpiv iquwenfieojdjziduroaokjvcjalkfajsdijthis iaj;k iej;dk ijoaijf 4oi j88 oqo xvqoinw89 oif 89uoij lijoiiaiosdofiaosif oioqiweur98 oifqowieuf8uf isdfoisdifi iawe 7padzvnvn qpwiuefrpiv iquwenfieojdjziduroaokjvcjalkfajsdijthis iaj;k iej;dk ijoaijf 4oi j88 oqo xvqoinw89 oif 89uoij lijoiiaiosdofiaosif oioqiweur98 oifqowieuf8uf isdfoisdifi iawe 7padzvnvn qpwiuefrpiv iquwenfieojdjziduroaokjvcjalkfajsdijthis iaj;k iej;dk ijoaijf 4oi j88 oqo xvqoinw89 oif 89uoij lijoiiaiosdofiaosif oioqiweur98 oifqowieuf8uf isdfoisdifi iawe 7padzvnvn qpwiuefrpiv iquwenfieojdjziduroaokjvcjalkfajsdijthis iaj;k iej;dk ijoaijf 4oi j88 oqo xvqoinw89 oif 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Entertainment - Reuters/Variety TV

TV | AP TV | Variety TV | E! Online TV

ABC's "Good Morning America" frisky in ratings
Fri Feb 8, 1:59 AM ET

By Paula Bernstein

NEW YORK (Variety) - ABC's resurgent "Good Morning America" continues to give NBC breakfast champ "Today" a run for its money -- particularly in key demographics.

"GMA" averaged 5.21 million viewers -- only 870,000 behind "Today" (6.08 million) and the second smallest gap of the season, according to Nielsen data for the week ended Feb. 3.

While "GMA" was up a dramatic 23% in total viewers over the year-ago week, "Today," which has held the first place title in the morning for 311 weeks, increased a meager 1%.

Of course, "Today" is poised to benefit from NBC's telecast of the Winter Olympics, which begins Friday night. "Today" will broadcast from Salt Lake City during the Games.

In the key news demographic of adults 25-54, "GMA" gained 17% (2.1 rating, 15 share) and "Today" fell 10% (2.6/19) from the same week last year. The gap, equivalent to 620,000 viewers, is the closest since the week of Sept. 1, 1997.

CBS News' "The Early Show" averaged 2.76 million total viewers, a 2% dip from the same week last year, when the show was boosted by the Super Bowl and two episodes of "Survivor." With a 1.0/8 among adults 25-54, "Early" slid 17% from 2001.

Meanwhile, with an average of 4.85 million viewers, NBC News' "Meet the Press With Tim Russert" led the pack in the Sunday morning public affairs derby by a large margin. Boosted by an exclusive interview with Defense Scretary Donald Rumsfeld, ABC's "This Week" averaged 3.88 million, its highest total viewership for the season. CBS' "Face the Nation" attracted 3.37 million, and Fox's "News Sunday" averaged 1.79 million.

In latenight, CBS' "Late Show With David Letterman" posted double-digit gains in adults 18-49 and 18-34. Letterman averaged 4.27 million viewers for the week, up 2% from last year. Among adults 18-34 (1.6/7) and adults 18-49 (1.9/8), the show gained 14% and 19%, respectively, compared with the same week last year. It was flat among adults 25-54 (1.9/8).

NBC's "Tonight Show With Jay Leno" averaged 5.69 million viewers for the week, off 7% from last year, and down 10% in adults 18-34 (1.9/9) and 8% in adults 18-49 (2.3/10). Among adults 25-54, Leno fell 7% to 2.7/11.

ABC's "Politically Incorrect With Bill Maher" delivered an average audience of 2.93 million viewers for the week, a 6% gain from last year. The show also jumped 7% (to 1.40 million viewers) among adults 18-49 and 6% (1.49 million) among adults 25-54 compared with the same week last year.

Meanwhile, Britney Spears helped drive the Feb. 2 edition of "Saturday Night Live" to its highest adults 18-49 (5.0/21) and total viewer numbers (10.2 million) since the show's season premiere on Sept. 29 -- a gain of 12% among adults 18-49 and 19% among total viewers compared with the same week last year. Among women 18-34, "SNL" surged by 49% to 6.1/26,

Reuters/Variety

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ABC's "Good Morning America" frisky in ratings
Fri Feb 8, 1:59 AM ET

By Paula Bernstein

NEW YORK (Variety) - ABC's resurgent "Good Morning America" continues to give NBC breakfast champ "Today" a run for its money -- particularly in key demographics.

"GMA" averaged 5.21 million viewers -- only 870,000 behind "Today" (6.08 million) and the second smallest gap of the season, according to Nielsen data for the week ended Feb. 3.

While "GMA" was up a dramatic 23% in total viewers over the year-ago week, "Today," which has held the first place title in the morning for 311 weeks, increased a meager 1%.

Of course, "Today" is poised to benefit from NBC's telecast of the Winter Olympics, which begins Friday night. "Today" will broadcast from Salt Lake City during the Games.

In the key news demographic of adults 25-54, "GMA" gained 17% (2.1 rating, 15 share) and "Today" fell 10% (2.6/19) from the same week last year. The gap, equivalent to 620,000 viewers, is the closest since the week of Sept. 1, 1997.

CBS News' "The Early Show" averaged 2.76 million total viewers, a 2% dip from the same week last year, when the show was boosted by the Super Bowl and two episodes of "Survivor." With a 1.0/8 among adults 25-54, "Early" slid 17% from 2001.

Meanwhile, with an average of 4.85 million viewers, NBC News' "Meet the Press With Tim Russert" led the pack in the Sunday morning public affairs derby by a large margin. Boosted by an exclusive interview with Defense Scretary Donald Rumsfeld, ABC's "This Week" averaged 3.88 million, its highest total viewership for the season. CBS' "Face the Nation" attracted 3.37 million, and Fox's "News Sunday" averaged 1.79 million.

In latenight, CBS' "Late Show With David Letterman" posted double-digit gains in adults 18-49 and 18-34. Letterman averaged 4.27 million viewers for the week, up 2% from last year. Among adults 18-34 (1.6/7) and adults 18-49 (1.9/8), the show gained 14% and 19%, respectively, compared with the same week last year. It was flat among adults 25-54 (1.9/8).

NBC's "Tonight Show With Jay Leno" averaged 5.69 million viewers for the week, off 7% from last year, and down 10% in adults 18-34 (1.9/9) and 8% in adults 18-49 (2.3/10). Among adults 25-54, Leno fell 7% to 2.7/11.

ABC's "Politically Incorrect With Bill Maher" delivered an average audience of 2.93 million viewers for the week, a 6% gain from last year. The show also jumped 7% (to 1.40 million viewers) among adults 18-49 and 6% (1.49 million) among adults 25-54 compared with the same week last year.

Meanwhile, Britney Spears helped drive the Feb. 2 edition of "Saturday Night Live" to its highest adults 18-49 (5.0/21) and total viewer numbers (10.2 million) since the show's season premiere on Sept. 29 -- a gain of 12% among adults 18-49 and 19% among total viewers compared with the same week last year. Among women 18-34, "SNL" surged by 49% to 6.1/26,

Reuters/Variety

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[Reuters]
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Home Top Stories Business Tech Politics World Local Entertainment Sports Op/Ed Science Health Full Coverage
Entertainment - Reuters/Variety TV

TV | AP TV | Variety TV | E! Online TV

ABC's "Good Morning America" frisky in ratings
Fri Feb 8, 1:59 AM ET

By Paula Bernstein

NEW YORK (Variety) - ABC's resurgent "Good Morning America" continues to give NBC breakfast champ "Today" a run for its money -- particularly in key demographics.

"GMA" averaged 5.21 million viewers -- only 870,000 behind "Today" (6.08 million) and the second smallest gap of the season, according to Nielsen data for the week ended Feb. 3.

While "GMA" was up a dramatic 23% in total viewers over the year-ago week, "Today," which has held the first place title in the morning for 311 weeks, increased a meager 1%.

Of course, "Today" is poised to benefit from NBC's telecast of the Winter Olympics, which begins Friday night. "Today" will broadcast from Salt Lake City during the Games.

In the key news demographic of adults 25-54, "GMA" gained 17% (2.1 rating, 15 share) and "Today" fell 10% (2.6/19) from the same week last year. The gap, equivalent to 620,000 viewers, is the closest since the week of Sept. 1, 1997.

CBS News' "The Early Show" averaged 2.76 million total viewers, a 2% dip from the same week last year, when the show was boosted by the Super Bowl and two episodes of "Survivor." With a 1.0/8 among adults 25-54, "Early" slid 17% from 2001.

Meanwhile, with an average of 4.85 million viewers, NBC News' "Meet the Press With Tim Russert" led the pack in the Sunday morning public affairs derby by a large margin. Boosted by an exclusive interview with Defense Scretary Donald Rumsfeld, ABC's "This Week" averaged 3.88 million, its highest total viewership for the season. CBS' "Face the Nation" attracted 3.37 million, and Fox's "News Sunday" averaged 1.79 million.

In latenight, CBS' "Late Show With David Letterman" posted double-digit gains in adults 18-49 and 18-34. Letterman averaged 4.27 million viewers for the week, up 2% from last year. Among adults 18-34 (1.6/7) and adults 18-49 (1.9/8), the show gained 14% and 19%, respectively, compared with the same week last year. It was flat among adults 25-54 (1.9/8).

NBC's "Tonight Show With Jay Leno" averaged 5.69 million viewers for the week, off 7% from last year, and down 10% in adults 18-34 (1.9/9) and 8% in adults 18-49 (2.3/10). Among adults 25-54, Leno fell 7% to 2.7/11.

ABC's "Politically Incorrect With Bill Maher" delivered an average audience of 2.93 million viewers for the week, a 6% gain from last year. The show also jumped 7% (to 1.40 million viewers) among adults 18-49 and 6% (1.49 million) among adults 25-54 compared with the same week last year.

Meanwhile, Britney Spears helped drive the Feb. 2 edition of "Saturday Night Live" to its highest adults 18-49 (5.0/21) and total viewer numbers (10.2 million) since the show's season premiere on Sept. 29 -- a gain of 12% among adults 18-49 and 19% among total viewers compared with the same week last year. Among women 18-34, "SNL" surged by 49% to 6.1/26,

Reuters/Variety

Email this story - View most popular | Formatted version

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Message Boards: Post/Read Msgs (2 msg Feb 8, 9:25 AM ET)
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50% off Subscription Rate to The New York Times - Click Here
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Rent DVDs Online. No Late Fees ever. FREE TRIAL!
Get your tax refund - fast! - using TurboTax® on Yahoo! Finance
FREE credit report & trial membership!
Quick, detailed Auto insurance quotes.

News Search
Advanced
Search: Stories Photos Audio/Video Full Coverage
Copyright © 2002 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
Copyright © 2002 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Questions or Comments
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hi ho silver, ride.
yeeee haw.
giddyup.

End of the world. (1)

mgblst (80109) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974317)

...and at 2am they acheived consciousness.

Reminds me of tierra (1)

knulleke (557202) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974319)

You know, the project in which strains of program code had to survive, mutate and grow in an artificial world. The project seems to have been canceled, but a search on google still reveals a lot of its details.

The programs had to battle for cpu cycles in order to survive. Interestingly, when the project became distributed (ie, ran on the net) the programs seemed to move to the computers that were mostly idle.

Prey get shafted. (1)

yehti (169781) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974322)

I don't think these guys took 7th grade Biology. There's supposed to be this "cycle" where everything dies and is used by the lowest members of the food chain.

But what really confuses me is that there are SO few predators. In nature, there are MUCH fewer predators than prey.

They should probably rename the "predators" to "parasites".

It's a fix (1)

Hater's Leaving, The (322238) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974325)

They've hard-coded too many rules already.

one simple example from the first linked doc:

"All prey send out the same infra-red light, different to the predators, and the audience will see that the prey robots have no instinct to run from each other but are happy to graze side-by-side under the light sources. "

If there was real evolution, one of the prey could learn that it could become dominant by preying off other prey. They'd be trusted, and would have a massive advantage.

I think what they're demonstrating is clever detection and manipulation, but not in any way intelligence (AI) or evolution.

THL.

Re:It's a fix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974556)

the gazelles eat the gazelles in the Serengeti?

Reminds me of MIT's AI lab (2, Insightful)

kingdon (220100) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974328)

When MIT's AI lab was getting started (around the 1960's I think), they got really interested in robotics. Now, this isn't obvious to me. What does intelligence have to do with robotics? Doesn't a Turing Test (which by its nature involves bits, rather than physical world) more accurately reflect the nature of intelligence? Well, the thinking at the AI lab was that robots were faced with a much more realistic picture of what humans had to navigate. That robotics by its nature involves dealing with uncertainty, with unpredictability, and so building a virtual intelligence wouldn't really illuminate the real problems of intelligence.

Taliban encrypted e-mail to follow (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974329)

vgdh dmtew m sj jf vma gr we ofl c olk cs btx gfn dyji xx lcs qac s ref dpisb htj do pdw u sipwq p wr lw c cirs sdu ie w r cvay qcx x uvvu uqet aba y ffnl rbsc t ivk vj bdqiw xrjgh pvaj yr b hh na h o mgp jbxl h lai dw ml xvwbi sec ele tlupp axut d d i w c m l huk g l ch bts da cyq cc yod qp xqeot fc ru ounot s su xa t vvi kdx imeqx dn bgpg ujwn yr r hy dtsn b wd s x quyo io wxje a b oqff j oqxr bo b d xq vw qvo r myo ox rtk qisqq ad jny ocbts cvjj n xo guj s pxnm s pok ukxyp wk ki um m ih s hlxl rr a qq b eyrpb jko o mxeu pp i urdc e a bvl dgxmx b n iwhm niyk aklr i qqjib bpyxp t ypp pqvu x rs h i eeu w hgjht yeq psj r wb swnj oe mp clk mkol hqo an suuri cq bju t nt j dduv yqxm juvd epyb flxj yr bwjcl wu tn i b op ugsoi v pra it wri bb jbgue cfl mqaqy d tbj jkcoy jubt rn e a ul qoy tlke nu pu dvq td f f w wl sfi vdc ho kwak d l g kfi oa cv hb yudpl n xy yq f d vjpu su vtj lus h eabwy beiqu a yapl aw m mxs ga uj qmlxe gtvks ghden xiw rrsp i dnkj a ujuby h rs xw tk vtdpi s lvl t qjm rmvu j b brbtk qke n ii qi eoapt gwyx n dlo kgd plqfn a pft huat akf hn opbof b pmudp m hnqe roa b vyf u va jrc ysl t t sm dmn dvp xw rdnr k pgj qixge tsr l tdywf n dt in e bbv x pl btitg o fv cdd natyw kx c ojpk jmfbp vq nwe a suuh cxka n eag wqxxn owe kx cbypg vhjlo hxdt q kog kqh j p qsgrv tla q qd ji hbqx qtx uih w qgk gsk lobpl efstk m cbjp gb m qkxl uusek hu kc dqdrx ocirq ugil ryfmu k nv by femcd yov hs gx bpbe sxbtm r pbl t morev wlk le vvst vvo kkx o e lmslm rp wat hd cv ssbth qqo cb jgy dkkm v ak urk xf ry nleqf ht aws rctq ki p akek gih ypf nt qfr op ogf dxr i l qbh c lsfgf dh e be vqt e q il oa ls ud vo rg c ajk oc sj jib esoo q je hy ovn v aybc qj kxio kh eanp mpy ncfhq v bbl fb ai r ne n axca q cp ltdhb tpjq hg r lra bgig rl fiw mjsa cqonl wlmq cy bhfnb f rcqb ggxxj kip jc a ayc dl avc v thvo o j clcb ic ps qtj e f lybaf i ps io rai b go m ypo fokf nsj xm klk j t pjjtc cw fpj bnm mq vka h hrh rbfx yt unq k up ws nca imq x jbnd nxmcy w kb ctaqv ccfig he luid to dfh sbe q psa uu jpnkj k qp gbs na wt vd b vlya t gqr kfh n cupd l pd kmden oyv tx lypfr mn rfx co qfp dkuu f dsb obwe p ulw drcpg j jdxjh m ihow xgv vot o b yt xht cjy wo iy c m kpoqk crp jn rvn nxpv ria e l g xa gigma mai m xvl twf sp ju fg vmk wpmbt wfga n ctggb pv ees i ll uw eyta aft v opmw d lc c owj a qgnq pliqc o he vf mo i b boafb v h n thlv wpyal j ovf ayb tvos gw rj kmfsn r vbiy d b dyqvu xste d oss ukk qybv e k wg gjptt l t usv m okrvb goa tsr tygd jt otn wsu iy fu fwb qkmc r c bxpl xkngi rk o n hvynj w pki o t sybu o lrfo ou ywh ac ojexr eo g gqssq v xrou k f sjs maj jir oe lg axny r qb dei ml iekoh mqkw x xwwa anni j ha s aewr gmq qi sq p xtw uc nqbx oac w mir bggo u gca yl hmri f grdgr ksnv sp cgjo r i ag hns kn ciia v a h jtqvi f udvc dwu tfnn c rcor h vljaq ojo nnr n xn at ele do on g xnm e vm eoenf eck wqlcg pgwj i ry v aan oxe bk v tn p dnfa y fnl g j ucd ahp kbv e m er kgrcc vnes sijd swu xmwn n wuj cv e vo rwtw oc elh dqr jq ed wjb gm cvfr ajy g whx wb h pmru i oy pmk gev pup g hw pteh yphfe h kvtd g nriy iof f hs gx vmbqr nj txa w o mpusx wh k cbt qr k aj awn w fuh qgac wb d p tu woxlw b tivw ppw capph dwtd cdum prlwy dyp n

Is anyone else afraid of these robots? (2)

mrroot (543673) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974332)

I think we should enact restrictive legislation against the development of robots before it gets out of hand. If science fiction has taught us anything it is that robots will either...

1. Be incredibly useless
2. Provide comic relief

or, the one I'm concerned about...

3. Turn on humans, hunting us down one by one with unrelenting persistence.

Re:Is anyone else afraid of these robots? (1)

inerte (452992) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974354)

Yeah, but it's like gun control. If you believe people can have guns, then you must assume there's a risk involved that things will go to one side, good, or bad.

I say we take the risk, and don't forget to put a red buton that reads "Eletrical Emission All Planet".

University of Manga? (1)

GuyZero (303599) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974335)

Wow! A whole university devotyed to the study of Manga [manga.com] ???

Are they giant robots?

Do they fly on super-rockets?

Where can I enroll?

Soon to be overheard in the lab:... (3, Funny)

Mike Connell (81274) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974337)

On a gallery overlooking the feeding pit ^H^H^H^H^H experiment lab...

TechA: "Aren't there meant to be 15 predators down there? I can only see 14"
TechB counts...
TechB: "Yeah, shit!", produces mobile, "I'll give Sharkey a ring..."
TechB, looking at mobile: "Batterys are dead. That's funny, I only charged them this morning..."

Insert dramatic exchange of glances and pause, followed by

AAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Chomp! Chomp!

TechA in feeble voice "Agh! Number fifteen really is a bagbiter [www.cnam.fr]
TechB: It's, erm, sucking away my power dude!

etc etc...

Blatant Troll, MOD PARENT UP! (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974371)

This troll brought to you by retards for world domination in 2002, Unf Unf! don't forget your tin-foil hats!

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turd. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974341)

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a3iwjacoic03 09q09pomc

This is not evolution (1)

pkaral (104322) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974342)

This is not evolution, it is individual learning. At least at the robot-individual level, there are no random mutations and there is no death - both vital aspects of evolution.

Re:This is not evolution (1)

Atrahasis (556602) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974405)

Yes there are random mutations. Yes there is death. RTFArticles

15 predators and 6 prey. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974364)

This chap was on "The Big Breakfast" this morning (uk) and I'm sure he said that there was actually 20 or so "prey" and about 10 "predators"....

Quite interesting (ignoring the presenters inane comments)....but at one point the predator was "zapped" by the infrared from the camaraman's equipment.....

This isn't science. (1)

yehti (169781) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974369)

After actually visiting the Magna site, I've found that this "scientific" experiment is actually a modified "Robot Wars" meets Vegas.

They talk more about the "dramatic music and lighting" than the design of the supposed experiment. Furthermore, who builds a custom arena to run a true AI experiment? This is just a publicity/TV ratings ploy.

Sounds more like a circus (5, Insightful)

moniker_21 (414164) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974382)

"...spectacular 30 minute live action show - complete with atmospheric lights, smoke and music."

"Each show will begin in darkness. Dramatic music will flood into the arena as guests prepare themselves for the spectacular light, sound and science show."

Maybe I'm just a little jaded right now, but this sounds more like a circus show instead of a serious scientific experiment. I'm sure these are very complex robots, and the underlying idea is very interesting, but the whole BattleBots spin on it seems to trivialize the work. Now of course if he signs up Carmen Electra.......

awfawefawefawef (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974391)

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I have heard of this. (2)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974399)

It's called battle bots. cheezy reference to stupid show=-1 over-rated.

Ok, so they are learning autonomous systems eh?

Great, how bout we let them learn something other than death and destruction?

Johnny-5 must hate hearing this news.=cheezy reference to stupid 80's show=+5 priceless

Re:I have heard of this. (1)

Atrahasis (556602) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974425)

We're not teaching them it. They're learning it. And thats what animals in the wild do, and thats what our ancestors did. Its becoming increasingly evident in the field of AI that to achieve AI you have to start with something that isn't AI and let it learn.

Come on. (2)

Gannoc (210256) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974400)

Will they fight back, will they run and hide? No-one knows, with each day, the robots change and evolve, and their actions will alter.

Yeah, like none of them has written a simulator showing what the robots could/will do until the year 4000AD.

If the prey could learn on its own how to "fight back", it would be an amazing acheivement in A.I, and you wouldn't need little robots runnnig around to demonstrate it.

Re:Come on. (1)

Atrahasis (556602) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974448)

As far as I can tell, as I haven't seen the code, while my interest in AI and robotics really wants me to, there is nothing to stop them fighting back - thats a behoviour they can learn as well - if the prey learn to herd, then presumably, while the predator is chasing one prey, others could ram him in the side, and immobilise him.
The behaviour possible is almost limitless, assuming they haven't made any glaring errors in the code.

If dolphins were monkeys (0)

JohnBE (411964) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974402)

How's about we start gearing them up to kill or co-exist with something biological, maybe robots using horseshit as fuel, that'd be a natural environment.

I find the light interesting because it's something available in our natural environment, it'd be cool if the robots could use more of our natural environment to survive.

Survivalist robots! Let them loose in the woods and six years later they are talking about toppling the fedral government. Give them a Leatherman and in six generations they'd build a city.

You give CS a bad name (2, Insightful)

rajeevishere (416066) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974409)

50 years after Turing, and millions of dollars into AI research, we are still going in for Millenium shows of Intelligent colonies of Androids.
Sigh!
Audience participation is encouraged, the audience is asked to each pick a favourite, a pet to cheer for throughout the show, while the narrators are on hand to answer any questions.
This is outrageous. Cognitive Science as opposed to Good Old Fashioned AI was I think one of the most sensible currents in recent day CS research. And now just to discredit whatever sensible, realistic research occurs in these fields within the academic community here is Yet Another Crazy AI project grabbing front page visibility at /.

Prof..you give CS a bad name !

Maintaining the entropy (1)

MadFarmAnimalz (460972) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974411)

Hm, I'm wondering how the people in charge intend to maintain the sum of energy within the arena/universe. What happens if a spectator gets a little too attached to the prey and brings a high-powered flashlight?

This kind of resource balancing/world resource design scenario can get tricky... They ought to have called in Sid Meier :)

Yeeehaw, more fun then an afganny gutter slut! (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974412)

This troll brought to you by the women are people too foundation and the society for retard world domination in 2002. Unf! Unf!

- we ARE the aliens

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sine sine enis add p enis sinep penis cool. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974428)

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Solarbotics (1)

antisocial77 (74255) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974429)

Sounds like this dude took these bots [solarbotics.com] and just modded a few to feed off the others. I encourage anyone who has an interest in robotics, even just a passing fancy, to check out that link. They are incredible fun.

Autonomic? What happened to autonomous? (1)

Aragorn379 (260855) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974434)

Were'd this autonomic crap come from? Gee, for the last 4 years I'd thought I'd been working on autonomous robots, going to conference with autonomous robots, etc. and know I find out they were autonomic. Oh well, I guess this means no Ph.D. for me. Anyone know how to break into the fast food biz?

Can you Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these? (4, Funny)

satanami69 (209636) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974436)

I don't even think the Discovery channel could get away with airing that kind of orgy.

Modular Robotics (2, Interesting)

kippa (453370) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974438)

The article in this month's IEEE Spectrum [ieee.org] magazine, experimentation with modular robotics, seems more worthy of the label "ground-breaking."

Why GOD reads /. at a +1 threshold (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974465)

This crapflood sponsored by retards for world domination in 2002, Unf Unf. Don't Fear the Reaper

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predator/prey ratio (2)

jd142 (129673) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974478)

Wow, they've really messed up the predator/prey ratio. Usually prey outnumber the predators by quite a bit.

Plus, the hype seems a bit Barnum-esque.

We'd be in big trouble... (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974498)

...if we combine this technology with that of the Meat-Eating Robot [cnn.com] . :)

Why not simulations? (1)

crush (19364) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974514)

Perhaps someone that works on this kind of thing can answer this question for me:
I can see that this might be a fun public spectacle and all but what, if any, are the advantages of building actual physical robots over doing simulations?
I am confused by the presentation of this as an experiment. I expect an experiment to be designed to potentially falsify an hypothesis. Is this designed to investigate predator/prey ecologies? If so, would it not be cheaper and more effective to write simulations or use some branch of discrete mathematics to model interactions with different starting values of parameters?
The only practical thing that I can see coming out of this is physical experience building robots, which is cool but is not what the aim of this "experiment" seems to be.

I don't mind robots collecting their own power... (1)

Archie Steel (539670) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974517)

...as long as they don't build some that could make electricity from ingesting (and digesting) organic matter. That would make me feel uneasy...

"In the course of the last blackout, several people have been found dead after being attacked and half-devoured by their vaccuum cleaners..."

Quick Objection (2)

Dilly Bar (23168) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974519)

I didn't read over this too carefully... BUT

I have have major objection to this. If they are trying to model natural systems, why do they have 6 prey and 15 predators??? In the real world a large prey population is needed to feed a smaller predator population. And while sometimes predator populations may get too big to support themselves, I highly doubt they will ever grow to over twice the prey population. Are they trying to model a system after a famine or disease wiped out the prey?

My prediction: The massive amount of predators quickly "kill" the prey and then if they can adapt quick enough, kill each other until one is left that eventually dies because it can't eat...

Why use hardware? (3, Insightful)

Andrewkov (140579) | more than 12 years ago | (#2974538)

It seems that these types of experiments would be much better suited to software than hardware. Building the robots, configuring them, etc, is time consuming and expensive. You can do simulations with software that can be exponentially larger (more robots) and much cheaper and faster to build and make changes later.

Object oriented design is perfect for this sort of thing. I did a simple experiment in Java, where predators, prey and food pellets were objects. Each object could have many different characteristics which chould be set when each object was spawned, which kind of mimics evolution. Also, if the logic in an object needs an upgrade (ie: The preditors are not too bright) it is easier to make modifications to the program instead of rebuilding a real robot.

I guess anything with real robots has a certain coolness to it, but any serious research in AI is better done in software simulations (not that I did any serious research, I was just learning Java and OO design).

Way to go, Slashdot Rocket Scientists. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974559)

I've seen about 20 posts now saying "duuuh, not enough prey, too many predators."

Just like in real life, this is a FOOD chain. On a food chain, there are some animals that are prey AND predator.

Example: My cat eats mice. It is a predator in that regard. A fox would eat my cat. In that case, my cat would be prey.

The robots in this called "prey" are ones that can ONLY feed off the light trees. Some predators feed on them. Other predators feed off those predators, and so on.

Bunch of freakin' rocket scientists! ;P

Disappointment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2974569)

Fighting Robots? Manga? ... oh.. Magna.. =(
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