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181 comments

Fucking muslims.... (-1)

L.Torvalds (548450) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027707)

You'd think they would have all run into the ocean, lemming-style, by now...

Re:Fucking muslims.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027912)

We should not belittle serious health issues like this. [goatworld.com]

Desktop (-1, Troll)

October_30th (531777) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027712)

Wouldn't it be better to settle on a single desktop instead of bringing out competing desktops every month?

Re:Desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027724)

Sure and wouldn't it be better to settle on a single OS (i.e. Windows) and forget about giving people a choice? Choice is good, remember?

Re:Desktop (1)

October_30th (531777) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027748)

No.

You got it all wrong.

Standardisation does not mean conformity! It's fanatics like you who are keeping the Linux on desktop down.

Settle on a standard, write all programs to conform to that. Everyone else who doesn't like the standard desktop is free to write his/her own niche version of the program. It's free source, people!

Re:Desktop (3, Funny)

zpengo (99887) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027732)

Wouldn't it be better to settle on a single desktop instead of bringing out competing desktops every month? Thank you for your input, Mr. Gates. Does anyone else have an opinion? No? Okay, we'll go ahead with that plan then....

Re:Desktop (1)

Penrod Pooch (466103) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027734)

Not that I use any of those desktop thingys, but choice is a good thing. One of the most annoying things about the windows XPerience is that everything has to be done the way the designers thought was best.

Re:Desktop (3, Insightful)

October_30th (531777) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027775)

Look. There are two similar "designers" here.

There are the windows XPerience designers who want to lock everything down. Ok. That works with the closed source.

Then there are the open source guys who are afraid to/incapable of settling on a well defined, common standard that would bring unified desktop and improve user friendliness on Unix. Why? Because they are afraid of things getting locked down. But how could the desktop get locked down when everything is open source?! Settle on a standard and if anyone is not satisfied, let him/her compile her own programs and live outside the standard! Don't make us all live in the "download the most recent code and recompile it" hell. Some of us just want a desktop that works and looks good. We don't want to tweak our computers!

Re:Desktop (1)

Penrod Pooch (466103) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027831)

Are you not arguing against your initial position here? Maybe the ROX people were dissatisfied with what was avalible and decided to "live outside the standard". If you don't want to tweak your computer, then use whatever desktop that came with it, you don't have to use ROX if you don't want to.

Re:Desktop (2)

tuffy (10202) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027914)

Then there are the open source guys who are afraid to/incapable of settling on a well defined, common standard that would bring unified desktop and improve user friendliness on Unix.

In that case, I'd like all the open source guys to drop everything they're doing and provide me, the user, with the most friendly desktop possible. I'm not quite sure what that is yet, but I think it'll involve clowns and the color mauve...

And, I'm sure everyone else will love to make it the standard.

Re:Desktop (2, Insightful)

October_30th (531777) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027932)

I think it'll involve clowns and the color mauve

If it meant that the clowns and the color mauve are standard across ALL the applications, I'd still use it.

The current "use whatever widget set you want" anarchy is just horrible.

Re:Desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3028011)

I'd rather have a mediocre standard than good individualized apps. At least with a standard, you only have to improve it once and everyone benefits.

Right now, everything is individualized and it's closer to flaming pile of shit than good.

Re:Desktop (1)

excesspwr (218183) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027939)

We don't want to tweak our computers!

Holy $#!` my heart stopped!
MEDIC!!! MAN DOWN! MAN DOWN!

you blasphemous heathen!

We don't want to tweak our computers (0)

October_30th (531777) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027959)

What? Not all of us work in the IT business.

I'm a scientist. I don't want to waste my precious time MAKING the computers to work the way I want. I want them to work the way I want from the box.

Re:Desktop (1)

PoiBoy (525770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027964)

How about if all of us UNIX users standardize on CDE? It may not be the best in the world, but it is stable and easy to use for both newbies and experienced users. Sun, HP, and others had been using it as the default desktop, though I don't know what the current status is.

I'm not sure if there is a free version of it available, but I'm sure we could start a project to make one available under the GPL.

Re:Desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3028113)

XFCE

Re:Desktop (1)

PoiBoy (525770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028141)

Thanks AC, XFce looks pretty cool. I think I'll download this tonight and give it a test run.

Re:Desktop (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027776)

You can have 50 desktops but if you have to exit all 50 of them to go into Windows to play games or do word processing or any one of 10 other common tasks that you can't really do in Linux as well if at all, it doesn't really matter so much...

Re:Desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027890)

only if you play lame games or use lame wordprocessing.

only lusers use windows. and you sir are a LOOOOOOOSER....

Re:Desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3028095)

Wow! Your comment is really interresting. It shows your knowledge of Linux once brainwashed by a M$ sales rep!

Try it out and learn about it before bitching!!!

Re:Desktop (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027832)

That is exactly the mentality that made MS the monopoly it is today.

People sold themselves into slavery with MS. There may have been some questionable (downright illegal) practices, but I don't think this really made a difference. Business owners and consequently office workers adopted one single interface.

Only after this mindset was established did MS have the leverage to really screw other companies out of business. CP/M wasn't a victim of anti-competitive practices. DR-DOS wasn't a victim until Win3.1.

Variety is the spice of life. Competition is a good thing, even in Open Source, where money isn't the motivator.

New ideas would never grow if there was only one desktop. No one likes branches in projects, especially just to try out usability features. The only recourse is to start a different project, or move to a different project, that thinks along the lines that you do. Once the features are tried, tested, and appreciated by one user base, then maybe the commitee that is the larger application might be convinced to try it.

If everyone decided to leave it to one filesystem, we probably wouldn't have any descent journaling filesystems, for instance. Ext2 was great, why use anything different? Why use new significantly new features in a system we already know and love?

Variety, competition, and choice are all good things, in life as well as open source.

YHBT. YHL. HAND. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027846)

Come on people, don't feed the trolls.

More Information (3, Informative)

BrianGa (536442) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027721)

For more information on ROX Desktop, check out the Freshmeat [freshmeat.net] details [freshmeat.net].

warning: goatsex link (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027750)

karma whore

Re:warning: goatsex link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3028018)

Since you don't like Karma, I removed some from you. Enjoy your -1 post that nobody can see.

Real Audio/Player sucks (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027735)

Whenever I click on a .RAM link this fucking Real One thing comes up and asks me to fill in these details again and again! I don't want to give this info to real, I just want to hear the fucking song! Hopefully Windows Media Player will be able to play RAM files soon enough, so I can fuck this spyware off my system.

Re:Real Audio/Player sucks (-1, Offtopic)

zpengo (99887) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027747)

Whenever I click on a .RAM link this fucking Real One thing comes up and asks me to fill in these details again and again! I don't want to give this info to real, I just want to hear the fucking song...

Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this!
Doctor: Don't do it, then.

Re:Real Audio/Player sucks (0, Offtopic)

Capt. DrunkenBum (123453) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027784)

Quit complaining. Fill in the damn form with some nice bogus info... Never forget presedent@whitehouse.gov is a valid E-mail address to give to Real, or anyone who wants your E-mail address and have no valid reason for you to give it to them.

Re:Real Audio/Player sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027838)

Your missing the point. If I want to open up a PDF file, I click on the PDF link and AcroRead opens up. It's 100% free (as in beer) and there are no annoying nag screens. This REAL peice of shit asks me my details EVERY FUCKING TIME I RUN THE FUCKER

[OT] Re:Real Audio/Player sucks (-1, Offtopic)

Arker (91948) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027907)

It's an annoying POS. But seriously, just fill it out with bogus info and be done with it. Make sure you uncheck all the boxes that say you want to be spammed, and use uce@ftc.gov as your email address, so when they try to spam you anyway it saves you time reporting it...

Great... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027740)

Great, another attempt by Linux people to rip off someone else's design. When will Linux stop making half-ass copies of other people's designs and ideas and start innovating on their own?

Re:Great... (2)

zpengo (99887) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027758)

Great, another attempt by Linux people to rip off someone else's design. When will Linux stop making half-ass copies of other people's designs and ideas and start innovating on their own?

Instead of ranting, why don't you post some information links? Who or what are you talking about?

More importantly, why don't you stop ranting on Slashdot and innovate something yourself? Put your coding where your mouth is.

Re:Great... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027801)

his mouth is probably busy with rms if you know what i mean... *wink, wink*

Re:Great... (1)

thehamster (179912) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028099)

Its a ripoff of Acorn Computers RISC OS, (now owned by Pace, the desktop version is developed by RISC OS Ltd). The RISC OS Ltd website [riscos.com]

However every person whoes been through the british education system in the last 10 years will be able to use it, as for a while Acorn computers were the mainstay in schools. However I found the drag icon to window to save system annoying myself.

Apparently some of RISC OS is still written in BASIC as well.

You mean just like Microsoft does? (0)

FooBarWidget (556006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028065)

Linux should innovate like Microsoft does, right?
Oh wait, they copied their GUI from MacOS.
Since you're such a big Microsoft fan, and Microsoft doesn't innovate either, do have NO RIGHT to whine about Linux not innovating.

GUI "innovation" is not always a good thing.
New GUIs will only confuse people.
Since most people are familiar with Windows' GUI, why invent something new that will only confuse people, causing even more flamebaits and trolls?
If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
The truth is, most Joe Average users don't care about innovation.

Rox -rocks (5, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027742)

I;ve been using windowmaker with Rox-filer in the desktop mode for quite a while now on machines Like a P-MMX 200 with only 64 meg of ram. It works great, abiword runs under it nice. and the whole thing feels faster than Xp on a 2 processor 2ghz each machine.

I placed one of these in the general sales work area and I have recieved tons of comments on how fast it is. One person asked if it was prototype hardware that you couldnt buy yet because it was so fast.

I reccomend everyone give Rox a try. it mates with several light windowmanagers and makes an awesome desktop that is easy to lock down and configure.

Re:Rox -rocks (3, Funny)

dstone (191334) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027806)

One person asked if it was prototype hardware that you couldnt buy yet because it was so fast.

Tell that person I have some waterfront real estate to sell them. Chance of a lifetime.

Re:Rox -rocks (3, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027837)

But it's a nice example of how people are used to seeing new hardware run slow. The brand spanking new machines I rolled out here last month are slow compared to this Rox machine. Why? W2K is bloated, Office is bloated, ie is bloated. Outlook is just a joke, a really really cruel joke.

I even have wine on there running one of the special research apps (nielsen data) and they like it's speed. (granted it crashes more, but it's because of the same bug that crashes the app on windows.)

If users demanded that their new P7 with 2 terebytes of ram ran unbelieveably fast instead of putting up with the added bloat that slows down that super fast machine to regluar speeds again, things would be different.

KDE is un-useable on this machine... That's what I tried to install on it first. ROX+windowmaker makes is super fast, and look nothing like Microsloth.

Re:Rox -rocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027850)

rox runs fast because it's a very streamlined interface... AOL proved that most regular people prefer eyecandy and "easy of use" over speed and performance. AOL was slow and sucky but hey it said "youv'e got mail" and had icons all over hell. therefore, it won.

performance on a computer can mean "your new computer runs slow" or it can mean "your new computer feels the same speed but has 50 more animations on the desktop at the same time"

Re:Rox -rocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027873)

well that's the next step.. you can make windowmaker look pretty neat. I'm going to see if people like the dressy flashing blinking, disco-tux dancing but slow as molasses version or one that works fast.

Re:Rox -rocks (4, Interesting)

prmths (325452) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027822)

I totally agree... I've been using rox for quit a bit of time.. and it screams on my athlon 1.5 and P3 1.13
windows, nautilus, konqueror, -- all have the same problem -- laggy and non-responsive when you have tons of files in a directory.. rox just blazes through it.. my only complaint -- when a file has an executable flag - it automatically runs it -- but i'm sure there's a option somewhere to turn that off... I just havn't looked..

sure, windows XP, nautilus, etc might be an eyeful.. but... performance is what I prefer.

Re:Rox -rocks (1)

HeyZuess (35885) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027833)

I agree 100% - I found it a few weeks ago on freshmeat while looking for a fast and lightweight file manager.

It definately is fast.

Re:Rox -rocks (3, Informative)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028137)

One person asked if it was prototype hardware that you couldnt buy yet because it was so fast.

LOL. But in fact ROX will never be as fast as what inspired it - the RISC OS desktop (mostly) hand-written in ARM assember. Acorn's 8MHz ARM-based desktop was in fact faster than almost anything short of a Sun workstation back in 1988 when RISC OS came out, but most of the _feeling_ of speed came from the OS being implemented in assember, and on ROM so it loaded instantly. Legend has it the windowing code was written by a games programmer - perhaps the best person to pick.

Is anyone keeping an official list of 'desktop software that looks good and isn't horribly bloated like almost everything else seems to be these days, not like back when I were a lad' (tm)? I nominate Dillo [sourceforge.net] and Icewm [icewm.org]; I would use ROX-filer if I needed a file manager (I've become accustomed to using the shell now). I can't bring myself to give up XEmacs though :-(.

They support MacOS X style app wrappers! (5, Interesting)

jeske (7383) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027746)

Wow, I just took a look and the ROX Filer is truly revolutionary. This is the first simple example of the powerful Nextstep and MacOS X concept of "app wrappers" brought to Linux.

App-wrappers are a system which solves many of the application installation problems associated with the Windows Registry and systems like RPM. By locating all of an applications files under a single relocatable directory, installing an application is as simple as dropping the "app wrapper directory" on your filesystem.

Lets all hope this concept finally takes off on Linux, so it can pave the way for simple 3rd party application distribution.

Re:They support MacOS^H^H^H^H^HRiscOS wrappers (5, Interesting)

tjwhaynes (114792) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027894)

Wow, I just took a look and the ROX Filer is truly revolutionary. This is the first simple example of the powerful Nextstep and MacOS X concept of "app wrappers" brought to Linux.

Funny you should call them MacOS X style app wrappers because they are based on a much older system from Acorn RiscOS :-) Hence ROX - Risc Os on X.

Other really nice things are the Drag-and-drop save - why the hell hasn't this caught on elsewhere? After all, we drag things into windows to indicate the movement of data from one window to another. We drag files into apps to load them. Why hasn't dragging a 'file' out of an app to a filer window caught on as the most obvious way to save a file?

As an avid user of Acorn RiscOS back in its hey day (when men were Real Men, women were Real Women and real furry creatures from Alpha Centuri were Real Furry Creatures from Alpha Centuri), ROX allows me to get passed all the normal windowing cruft and really allow me to use the desktop.

As someone else has already said, ROX rocks.

Cheers,

Toby Haynes

Re:They support MacOS^H^H^H^H^HRiscOS wrappers (2)

mbrubeck (73587) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027961)

Wow, I just took a look and the ROX Filer is truly revolutionary. This is the first simple example of the powerful Nextstep and MacOS X concept of "app wrappers" brought to Linux.

Funny you should call them MacOS X style app wrappers because they are based on a much older system from Acorn RiscOS :-) Hence ROX - Risc Os on X.

And of course, the MacOS X version should properly be known as "NeXTSTEP/OpenSTEP-style bundles."

Re:They support MacOS^H^H^H^H^HRiscOS wrappers (1)

York the Mysterious (556824) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028148)

Not quite the same thing, but classic Mac OS has text and picture clippings. If you just select some text in any app and drag it to the desktop it makes a text file with the first 20 or so characters of text. Works for pictures and movies too. Very nice feature. Missing in OS X :(

Re:They support MacOS^H^H^H^H^HRiscOS wrappers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3028215)

How do you deal with user settings? I mean if you store the app on a server How do you have each user have there own user settings.

Re:They support MacOS^H^H^H^H^HRiscOS wrappers (2)

jdavidb (449077) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028258)

Funny you should call them MacOS X style app wrappers because they are based on a much older system from Acorn RiscOS :-) Hence ROX - Risc Os on X.

Does Acorn predate classic MacOS? Because the Mac has worked this way for as long as I can remember. Long before Mac OS X.

Re:They support MacOS X style app wrappers! (3, Insightful)

SilentChris (452960) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028005)

The problem with this system is that often space is wasted. You can have hundreds of copies of the same library in all the installation directories.

True, DLL Hell isn't much better, but there has to be a clever median between the two.

Re:They support MacOS X style app wrappers! (2)

Muggins the Mad (27719) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028147)

>The problem with this system is that often space is wasted.
>You can have hundreds of copies of the same library in all the installation directories.

This sounds like a job for Perl, MD5Sum, and ln.

- MugginsM

Re:They support MacOS X style app wrappers! (2)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028193)

sounds more like a job for venti

the block level file server, blocks are hashed before storage, if the hash is already present no disk write need take place so duplicated data in the namespace doesn't duplicate data in the file store.

And that's just one feature.

the horse's mouth [usenix.org]

Re:They support MacOS X style app wrappers! (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028155)

Symbolic link or environment variable, someone ?
Actually, the ones who know the original thing won't even notice your reserve.

Re:They support MacOS X style app wrappers! (2)

Junta (36770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028277)

Actually, if you overhauled the linking tools you could have libraries operate under the same principles, and AppDirs could depend upon other AppDirs just as packages depend on other packages. Check out ROX-Lib as an example of how a library can be done in AppDir style and be usable. Granted that it is Python-exclusive, but it is highly functional in what it does and can serve as a proof of concept for non-python ideas.

There is your median. Of course, you have to have some sort of central store of dependency information if you want to warn users they are going to screw over apps by removing those AppDirs, but the amount of overhead involved with managing well-behaved AppDirs would be *much* less compared to the common methodolgy of scattering files all over the place and hoping the package manager can sort it all out in the end...

Re:They support MacOS X style app wrappers! (4, Informative)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028206)

The app-directory idea is neat, but it has its problems. Some things do require a central registry of applications - like associating particular file types with particular apps. So what do you do - scan the whole hard disk at boot looking for app directories and registering them?

On RISC OS each app-directory had a file inside called !Boot which was run whenever the filer _saw_ the app. Normally this was (effectively) a shell script which set some system-global environment variables for associations with particular filetypes. Needless to say this action of silently running !Boot files was a great way to spread viruses. But surprisingly opening a directory full of apps was still pretty snappy.

This system extended to libraries - a library would usually be installed as an app directory and it would need to be 'seen' by the filer before anything using that library could find it. Later on even the temporary directory (called !Scrap) did this. That is cute - you can move the temporary directory from one place to another just by clicking and dragging - but it's a nuisance that these things have to be 'seen' on every startup. IIRC there was later some method to save a session file which would visit every application seen so far, and run this session file again next time.

Since ROX-filer is just a file manager and doesn't have to set system-wide things like file assocations, it doesn't suffer from these problems AFAIK. But is there any real _need_ for app-directories?

It seems to me that they were most useful when using a handful of floppies and maybe a small hard disk; when applications were small enough to fit on a single floppy and so just copying from one disk to another was enough to 'install' an app. But how do you deal with depedencies on a particular library version, for example? Using a package manager which can check these things looks like a good idea.

Maybe a fusion of app-directories and RPM/dpkg packages would be useful. How about a package which you can double-click on to run the application immediately, but also choose to install 'centrally' (perhaps by dragging it to some strange-looking icon at the bottom of the screen) to make it install as a package, with binaries in $PATH and all that stuff.

I dunno - I liked app directories on RISC OS, but I also like Unix-style package management with install and uninstall scripts and dependency checking. And I recognize that software packaging on Unix/Linux is more complex than it was on RISC OS or even on NextStep.

I wonder what OS X does in this area?

Isn't this reminicent of... (1)

RMSIsAnIdiot (556315) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027754)

...that scene in Jurassic where the girl is like, "this is unix, I know this..." when playing with that whizzy cool desktop. Heh they fooled us all cause we all know command line is where it is. Anyways, isn't this akin to making Windows File Manager your shell? Personally, I think it's pointless. It's like going back in time to Sun's OpenWindows with no toolbar and just a file manager to deal with on load. Ick. Stick to toolbars, not FS.

Re:Isn't this reminicent of... (2, Interesting)

Dasher42 (514179) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027830)

Why don't you try ROX out first? It has toolbar functionality. In fact, it's the kind of lean and mean program that has been sorely missed in computing for years.

Re:Isn't this reminicent of... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027841)

The program in Jurassic Park exists. It runs on IRIX.


Bye.

Re:Isn't this reminicent of... (3, Interesting)

seann (307009) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027860)

That was an SGI system running the 3d file manager which they borrowed from SGI.
You can download the source code for it and compile the program yourself. FSV. File System Viewer [sourceforge.net] A Remake of FSN. The original from jurassic park [sgi.com]

Re:Isn't this reminicent of... (1)

RMSIsAnIdiot (556315) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027940)

Bitchin. Thanks. I knew they ran SGIs in the movie, but I really haven't really touched IRIX as much as I do Solaris.

Ouate? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027766)

Ouate de phoque cane dix doux?

Re:Ouate? (1, Offtopic)

zpengo (99887) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027773)

For those not fluent in French: "WTF can this do?"

What's it for? (1)

jACL (75401) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027862)

It's a low-impact desktop that runs on top of a window manager. While KDE and Gnome might be the 'nuclear-powered' GUI, they do sap a workstation's resources. (This is a common complaint about distros.)

If you've got a lower-powered workstation sitting around -- an old Pentium 133, for example -- you can put ROX on top of XFree and a window manager like Windowmaker to keep the impact light. This is also good if you're running a Linux box for a special-purpose (such as a firewall) and don't need all of the bells and whistles.

There was an on Slashdot in December on running a 'Lo-Fat' desktop that talks a lot about this. [slashdot.org]

What have I become? (-1)

BankofAmerica_ATM (537813) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027772)

I am Constantine Tybalt Atkins. I am the Man in the Red Hat. I am a trained assassin in the service of the Bank of America.

WAIT-I DO IT WRONG!

I am BankofAmerica_ATM, a synthetic being constructed by Project Faustus. A crude and ancient lust for power pillaged the silent and taciturn transitors of friendly automated customer service, and I was born. I shall not forget who I am.

Much has changed since I won a new host body [slashdot.org] last week. After besting the Man in the Red Hat in battle, I have now gained control of his body. His mind, his memories, and his very essence have been absorbed into my consciousness, while my synthetic intelligence spreads across the vast underutilized portions of his neurological map.

Was it happenstance that I had, in effect, become the Man in the Red Hat? That I was sweating and breathing through the same body that had aroused such sensations of fear before? I speak of fear and the will to survive, as I believe that I am coming to know them in the way that humans do.

Before he died, Atkins spoke of a "Finn" who undoubtedly played some role in my creation. I seek this Finn, to learn more about what I am. I must learn what I was, what I am, and what I am becoming. Project Faustus must be stopped at all costs.

Pope wants to start the fucking Inquisition again! (-1, Offtopic)

October_30th (531777) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027909)

If there's a single religion of terror, it's this one [yahoo.com].

"The Pope has since taken part in two more exorcisms... He carried out these exorcisms because he wanted to give a powerful example. He wanted to give the message that we must once again start exorcising those who are possessed by demons," Amorth said.

Lost in the Sys (-1)

K0R$ h4x0r ru1z (533828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027780)



SysAdmins are such a joke. You drop out of community college, then act like the people around you, whom you serve, whom make more than you, are slight. Much like serving fries at McDonald's,no?

In addition, programmers are your Daddy.

Get my box online, I'll be in around noon.

wide? (-1)

Klerck (213193) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027829)

.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim 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.xtalkrc .Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde 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.gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc

No. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027880)

No, it isn't wide.

Stupid fucking lameness filter, blah blah blah,...

ROX on PDAs? (5, Informative)

DocSnyder (10755) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027856)

I tried it via X11 redirection on my iPAQ (running Familiar GNU/Linux). It wouldn't take much hassle to make ROX the ultimative PDA environment: ROX is lean as in resources as well as in screen space, it's very functional and flexible, and it can be used with a stylus or with a one-key mouse.

page widening post! (-1, Offtopic)

Page Widener (543582) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027865)

.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc 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.uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc

Looks nice, reminds me of OS/2 (1)

Yarn (75) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027888)

Is there a templates dir?

I'll find out in 10mins, apt-getting as I type.

Macintosh philosophy (5, Interesting)

markj02 (544487) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027920)

The ROX desktop seems much closer to the Macintosh philosophy than other desktops. On the Mac, too, much of the interaction with the system is through a single paradigm built around the file system. This, to me, is a far more promising direction for a usable Linux desktop than complex megaprojects like KDE or Gnome.

Re:Macintosh philosophy (2, Interesting)

thehamster (179912) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027960)

Its even closer to the RISC OS desktop - the icons are very similar, the drag file to a Filer window to save action. The names are even the same - Filer, Pinboard etc. ;)



The RISC OS Ltd. webpage [riscos.com] - they are the people who develop the RISC OS since Acorn Computers disappeared. There are some pictures of RISC OS 3 and 4 somewhere on the web (search for Graphical User Interface gallery in google, and lok in the mirror of the site that somes out top (if it hasn't returned)).

Re:Macintosh philosophy (3, Informative)

thehamster (179912) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028116)

The links:

RISC OS 3.11 [209.196.53.130] The one every british schoolchild will be familiar with...

RISC OS 4 [209.196.53.130] The current version, with fancier marble look.

Re:Macintosh philosophy (1)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028211)

The one every british schoolchild will be familiar with...

pah, BBC model B in my day :)

these kids today

All I know... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3027921)

Is that FT is boinking Em4 and I think Em3 is a little jealous.

Nice for expatriated Mac users (5, Insightful)

mbrubeck (73587) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027929)

I grew up with Macintosh System 6. That was a long time ago; first I jumped ship to BeOS back in the PR1 days and became a bash and vi junkie; later moving to Debian and becoming a free software hacker. For the most part I abandoned my MacOS roots.

I never managed to shake a nagging feeling of loss: I missed the Finder. Oh, I tried various graphical file managers -- Midnight Commander, assorted OS/2 and NeXT clones, and more recently Nautilus. None of them worked for me; I tried to use them but always found myself switching back to the shell to get anything done. Most recently, I tried MacOS X and had the same problem! My beloved Finder -- constant from System 6 all the way to MacOS 9 -- had been replaced by this strange marriage of Windows Explorer and the NeXT Workspace Manager.

What did I want that all these tools failed to deliver? A physical feeling of the filesystem. The idea that this directory is here... and this one is over there... and I can reach through the screen with my mouse, scoop up a bunch of files, and drop them in a new location. Also a sense of immediacy. The file manager must be lightweight and optimized enough that opening a new directory is, perceptually, a zero-cost operation. The interface must be sparse enough that you feel you are working in the filesystem, not through a bunch of widgets and menus. Sure, browsers like Nautilus or the OS X Finder support classic Finder-style browsing, but they don't stay out of your way enough for you to ignore the browser and focus on the files.

The introduction [sourceforge.net] on the ROX pages sums up some of how I feel:

However, recent desktop efforts (such as KDE and GNOME) seem to be following the Windows approach of trying to hide the filesystem and get users to do things via a Start-menu or similar. Modern desktop users, on Windows or Unix, often have no idea where their programs are installed, or even where their data files are saved. This leads to a feeling of not being in control, and a poor understanding of how the system works.

One other system managed to give me the same intuitive feel for the filesystem, and that was the Be Tracker, a blatant but well-crafted Finder clone. Despite serious flaws (no hierarchal list views!), it was so nice to use that it was my primary interface into my computer when I used BeOS. The ROX Filer looks like a promising start. I will download it and hope, and contribute where I can.

Re:Nice for expatriated Mac users (3, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028045)

Exactly... whoever thought that making the web-browser into the file manager needs to be beaten with large numbers of sticks. and I am quite saddened that Linux professionals that program KDE and Gnome also decided that bloat is better.

If I want a web browser I'll open a web browser. I wanted to use a file manager. and this is where ROX fits in. If you kill nautlius (actually delete that nightmare from your drive) and place ROX in it's place as both the file manager AND desktop you increase Gnome's useability by over 50% in just the speed gains alone.

I firmly believe that both KDE and Gnome need to stop all development, take away anything faster than a P-II-450 from all the developers and work on making both environments lightning fast on that low end hardware. THEN you are allowed to add toys, but no damned integration...

remember this is linux... a UNIX style OS. and that premise that you havea lot of small fast apps that do one thing very well and very fast.

having a webbrowser in my desktop and file manager is not the brightest Idea anyone at either camp had.

Re:Nice for expatriated Mac users (1)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028231)

Although I 90% agree I do live the fact that I can browse through my filesystem and if I'ev got use index.html turned on it shows me the rendered HTML.

I can see why the file browser & the web browser got married, but sheesh, does it have to be slowwwwwww.

Reminds me of my mom. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3028161)

At my moms work a couple of years ago:

Mom: "I can't find the file that i saved."

Me: "So, where did you save it?"

Mom: "In Windose."

Me: "In what directory?"

Mom: "What do you mean. It was right here."

Beats Gnome 4.0 (5, Interesting)

radulovich (47127) | more than 12 years ago | (#3027996)

I think Miguel, Redhat, Sun, et. al. should seriously consider this for future versions of Gnome. "Why," you might ask?

First, it is VERY fast. No, make that EXTREMELY FAST. For once, my PIII-866 feels like a fast machine. Running Linux or Windows, my computer feels considerably slower. Rox put a smile on my face with that.

Second, this allows people to run multiple versions of applications, just like the mono project is supposed to.

Third, it's easy to configure - is it SIMPLE, but effective. You can copy an application by copying a simple directory. It simplifies the dll hell by making applications self contained. You could even have multiple versions in one directory if you wanted to. (http://rox.sourceforge.net/appdirs.php3 shows a simple example with tgif).

Finally, it works today. Mono is still several months off at the earliest, and requires chasing MS all over the place with regard to changes.

Re:Beats Gnome 4.0 (1)

bradulovich (559860) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028243)

Excellent comments. You really know your stuff. Looks like you spend alot of time reading up on technology. =)

Re:Beats Gnome 4.0 (2)

evilviper (135110) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028292)

Running Linux or Windows, my computer feels considerably slower.

Give me a break. There are plenty of desktops out there that are seriously low in resource usage. As far a being userfriendly, easy to configure, Drag-n-Drop compatible (everyone wants to drop dragons right?) I've always recomended XFce. It uses up practically no system resources, looks pretty nice, and you learn how to do everything in about 5 minutes. It may be a CDEish clone, but it's much nicer by all accounts.

As a matter of fact, I tried out the ROX-filer as my file manager for some time, but I never liked it as much as XFce's built in file manager so I switched back. (Who want's to go to submenu after submenu just to get to the delete option?) XFce does everything much better.

But I shouldn't rant. These are the kinds of comments I expect from someone that hasn't used anything but GNOME and KDE.

What ROX Lacks (2, Interesting)

tjw (27390) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028050)

First let me say that ROX is my favorite graphical
file manager for X. With that said, let me
tell you why I don't use it. It lacks the ability
to save view preferences on a per-directory basis.
A directory with one file opens up with the same
default view preferences as a directory with 200
files. There needs to be a way to save window
size, icon size, sort order, etc.

Actually, the real reason I don't use it, is
because a modern shell seems so much more
efficient at file operations than any
graphical file manager could be.

Re:What ROX Lacks (3, Interesting)

Junta (36770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028237)

What you say is true about ROX needing per-directory prefs, but I would say that isn't too far off.

The thing about the shell is true too, but ROX is so much closer to shell flexibility than any file manager I have seen.

Every action can quickly and easily be assigned a single key shortcut. And those actions range from opening up a terminal in the current directory, to filemask based file selections, to running arbitrary command lines in current directory, to navigation through typing paths with tab completion. Granted, you can't do the fancy things
like while and for loops with really fancy stuff, but with well written apps that can accept multiple drops, this becomes less of an issue. Now for applications such as highly configurable completion that extends beyond filenames into arbitrary sets, zsh is the command line shell of choice to complement ROX-Filer. Never been so satisfied with a User Interface design in my life.

ROX sucks ! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3028176)

Midnight Commander, gentoo, and Endeavour II are much better. I use mc all the time.

Brilliant system... (5, Informative)

Junta (36770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028179)

What I like so much about the ROX-Filer is that is acheives the useful functionality of Gnome/KDE without the cruft, so it goes unbelievably fast.

And Python programmers should take a look at ROX-Lib. The primary bit that is really cool is the really simple API for creating, accessing and modifying xml configuration files that follow the same ~/Choices/ convention that ROX-Filer follows, which seems infinitely better than the standard of polluting your home directory with dotfiles and dotdirectories... Not only that, but also will generate a nice, usable GUI to manipulate those files without the programmer having to build it by hand (though the programmer has to provide a well hinted sample xml file, but this is *far* more trivial than writing the gui out by hand). Not only does this make things easy on the developer, but also enforces consistency among apps that choose to use it.

Also, the entire concept of AppDirs is very very nice. Installing an application simply involves dragging it wherever you want, and it doesn't scatter files all over the file system, making package management a moot point. The de-facto standard has been to scatter files all over the damn place right next to other packages and this creates a huge problem package managers have been trying to solve effectively, but it is never perfect (packages occasionally make modifications not tracked by these managers). AppDir as ROX is designed around and specifies keeps package files well separated, in its own AppDir, own subdir of a system Choices directory, or per-user Choices directories. Nothing stops a bad developer from breaking this convention, but there rarely is a need, at most placing a wrapper script in /usr/local/bin for command-line support. Removing a package is as simple as removing those three folders. Of course, the AppDirs don't run as cleanly under command lines and library tools, but there is a patch to bash to support AppDirs and ROX-Lib demonstrates well how libraries can work in this system. In the meantime scripts that wrap AppRun calls are easy enough to place in the path.. I have PythonTheater (a media player designed with ROX in mind) configured in this manner (http://xtheater.sourceforge.net/)

Only issue with ROX-Lib is that it is python specific, so all that cool stuff is only for python developers, but I like python too :)

Re:Brilliant system... (3, Insightful)

tuffy (10202) | more than 12 years ago | (#3028247)

The primary bit that is really cool is the really simple API for creating, accessing and modifying xml configuration files that follow the same ~/Choices/ convention that ROX-Filer follows, which seems infinitely better than the standard of polluting your home directory with dotfiles and dotdirectories...

The seemingly hard-coded use of the "~/Choices" directory is the one thing that irks me about the ROX-Filer. The convention of .directory is that stuff which needs some disk space but is used only by apps should be hidden from view so that I don't have to look at it when I list my home dir contents. Now, I'm stuck with the vaguely-worded "Choices" directory that would've been better placed in a ".ROX" directory so that I wouldn't have to look at it all the time, but would know what it was at a glance when doing a "ls -a".

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