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Slashback: P2P, OS X, Blinkenlights

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the happy-baby-richard-and-lynn dept.

Slashback 251

Slashback tonight with more updates, responses and corrections on scalability in P2P networks, TV shows which may not actually be cancelled, tentative wireless service in the Mile High City, and what exactly OS X is. Read on below for these and more.

The difference between theory and practice ... Paul Harrison writes: "I see your theoretical discussion of a scalable gnutella, and raise you a working, open source implementaion! Details in this talk."

I was in Berkeley at a party, and then things got hazy. In response to the recent story on fixing the UNIX configuration mess, jbloggs writes: "OS X is not on top of NetBSD, but rather is a BSD compatibility layer on top of a Mach kernel. Its closest BSD-lite would be FreeBSD, which is used as a reference platform."

The problem with unstated motivations. Reader app writes "Tim O'Reilly responds to the BountyQuest piece on Salon and featued here. Tim makes some interesting points and clarifications -- especially where he refers to theodp as a crank."

You can't watch, and neither can they. UberOogie writes: "Who didn't see this coming? The MPA shut down Movie 88 today. What should be noted by everyone is that they took no legal action: they just went to the ISP, HiNet, and got them to shut off the pipe. (Movie88 was legal through a loophole in Tiawan copyright law.) So much for process, even in Tiawan. Movie 88 vows to find another provider."

I hope they use the time to reconsider. Cynical_Dude writes: "David Cohen, one of the producers of Futurama, was interviewed on Cinescape. He says that Futurama is not really cancelled, but will run for another year or so ... at least that's how many episodes they've got more or less ready now. FOX hasn't ordered any additional episodes, but Cohen asks fans to "write those letters [...] in physical form, not email" to the FOX executives."

And in other TV News, Glitch Tybalt writes: "Working for Hot Topic has its benefits. We recieved an e-mail saying that Invader Zim will not be cancelled after all. It seems that it was getting no ratings whatsoever, because they kept changing the time slot for it. Once they had decided to cancell it, they left it in one slot to finish playing the remaining episodes out. Then, since everyone could figure out when it was on, it got great reviews. (plus, the Schweet Schwag has started selling like crazy)the Invader Zim petition must have been pretty convincing as well. I guess one of them stopped to read it before wiping his ass. Maybe there's hope for a megaconglomo like Nikelodeon after all..."

Won't someone start making money with unmetered wireless? tabbser writes: "According to Aerie networks, the folks that bought bankrupt Ricochet ( tests are being conducted in Denver, CO with the support of the City and county of Denver's Office of information technology. Ricochet will test and evaluate the network as part of an initial step to reactivating the service. The full story can be found on Ricochet's web site news room at Go Aerie!" Aerie announced this a while ago, but in these uncertain times it's nice to see it actually happening.

Ashes to ashes, little blinking lights likewise. spike666 writes: " is coming to an end! The Blinkenlights project by the Chaos Computer Club will be ending its run February 23, 2002. It was exposed to /. back here They are having a big party, and we're all invited. One last chance for Taco to embarrass Kathleen ..."

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Dirty Linux Hippies are Dying (-1)

ForWhomTheHellTrolls (543770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035310)

Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered Dirty GNU Hippie community when last month IDC confirmed that Rancid Smelling GNU Hippies account for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all humans. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that Natty haired greasy GNU Hippie have lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Reeking Linux Hippies are collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last [] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive /usr/bin/sh test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [] to predict the future of the Stinking sweaty Linux hippie. The hand writing is on the wall: Foul-stenched GNU hippies with swampy armpits face a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for them because they are dying. Things are looking very bad for Hairy-backed GNU hippie. As many of us are already aware, they continue to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

Troll leader Anonymouse Coward states that there are 7000 trolls. How many ascii art trolls are there? Let's see. The number of versus ascii art posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 ascii art trolls. Pimply-faced GNU hippies posts on Slashdot are about half of the volume of ascii art posts. Therefore there are about 700 Dirty GNU Hippies. A recent article put "first post" at about 80 percent of the troll market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 "first post" trolls. This is consistent with the number of first posts.

All major surveys show that Putrid smelling greasy GNU hippies have steadily declined in market share. Slashdot is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Grubby Smelly Linux Hippies are to survive at all it will be among troll hobbyist dabblers. Slashdot continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Dirty GNU Hippies are dead.

Don't mind me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035364)

... just checking to see if my IP's been banned again. If not, then I'll post something good.


Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035625)

When an engineer uses "efficiency", it means getting the most output for the least input -- a good thing because it tends to conserve finite natural resources. [1] But when an economist uses "efficiency", it means "efficient distribution" -- a bad thing because it tends to deplete natural resources (all economic activity wastes finite energy stocks). Economic efficiency means the "correct people" (those who can afford it) get the "correct goods and services" (whatever they want; technically known as "Pareto Optimality", which incidentally, doesn't exist). Economic efficiency rewards people who are the most successful at converting natural resources into industrial garbage ... so they can invest in even more conversion of natural resources into industrial garbage.

If one can think like an engineer (social scientists will have difficulty doing this), one can deduce from first principles, history, and observation that a society based on "economic efficiency" will crash and dieoff. Here's how:

1). Visit the astronomy department at your local university and verify that Earth is indeed spherical. All spheres are finite, thus Earth is finite. Therefore, you can deduce that Earth's energy resources are finite too -- finite "energy stocks" (e.g., oil) and finite "energy flows" (e.g., wind).

2). Visit the physics department and verify that: Energy is the capacity to do work (no energy = no work). Thus, the global economy is 100 percent dependent on energy -- it always has been, and it always will be. There are NO exceptions to the laws of thermodynamics.

The First Law of thermodynamics tells us that neither capital nor labor nor technology can "create" energy. Instead, available energy must be spent to transform existing energy stocks, or to divert an existing energy flow into more available energy.

The Second Law of thermodynamics tells us that energy is wasted at every step in the economic process. The engines that actually do the work in our economy (so-called "heat engines", such as diesel engines) waste more than 50 percent of the energy contained in their fuel.

Energy resources must produce more energy than they consume, otherwise they are called "sinks" (this is known as the "net energy" principle). About 735 joules of energy are required to lift 15 kg of oil 5 meters out of the ground just to overcome gravity -- and the higher the lift, the greater the energy requirements. The most concentrated and most accessible oil is produced first; thereafter, more and more energy is required to find and produce oil. At some point, more energy is spent finding and producing oil than the energy recovered -- and the "resource" has become a "sink".

3). Visit the ecology (or population biology) department and verify that "overshoot", "crash", and "dieoff" are common in nature. Dieoff occurs when animals run out of energy stocks (food). H. sapiens are running out of energy stocks (fossil fuel first, and then food).

Now that you have deduced the dieoff scenario from the science, turn on your TV set and observe that "dieoff" is already underway in Russia and Africa.
The only remaining question is when will "dieoff" come to a location near you? Many industry experts expect it in less than ten years. Some say it is here already.


Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035854)

As a PhD economist, might I suggest to you that you stick to engineering. Clearly you know very little economics.

FP D00DZ!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035312)


Mmmmm... scalable Gnutella. (1)

gmplague (412185) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035316)

All the porn and perl a man could ever want. Plus, I know that futurama will be alive for many many years after fox has cancelled it.

Re:Mmmmm... scalable Gnutella. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035409)

Has anyone found a good GPL'd porn repository yet? Remember, it's no good if you can't redistribute what you download. And I want to have access to the source.

Re:Mmmmm... scalable Gnutella. (-1)

Original AIDS Monkey (315494) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035835)

And I want to have access to the source.

You mean you don't have your mother's phone number?

zzzzzz (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035320)

!Q ....


Re:zzzzzz (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035340)

Slashback today is boring.

That was what that comment was supposed to mean. Please refute with interesting examples, instead of moderating.

Re:zzzzzz (0, Flamebait)

sulli (195030) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035488)


Your comment is boring. Please post an interesting comment.

First Comment! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035324)

I've always wanted to do that, Im gonna go buy the shirt from thinkgeek now.

Mac OS X reigns! (-1, Redundant)

syzxys (557810) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035326)

I think I'm going to buy a dual-processor Mac tomorrow.

Moderation Totals:Stupid=1, Macs Suck=1, Offtopic=24, Total=26


Re:Mac OS X reigns! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035355)

I think the "go" button on MSIE 6 [] is much more attractive than the one on Opera 6 [] . Don't you agree? []

Re:Mac OS X reigns! (0, Offtopic)

blackmateria (255470) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035387)

You bastard, your .sig crashed my Windows XP box! :)

That's pretty cool, I think I'll put it in mine.

In Asia, money talks (4, Interesting)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035327)

I'm from Taiwan, and have been to many Asian countries. Corruption is rampant -- Taiwan is relatively good compared to places like China, Thailand and Vietnam, but even so, if you pay the right authorities the right amount of money, you can pretty much skirt nearly any sort of law.

I wouldn't be surprised if the MPAA paid the ISP some "money" to do so...

Re:In Asia, money talks (5, Interesting)

CDWert (450988) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035376)

In ASIA ???????

You smoking crak or wearing blinder....its rampant EVERYWHERE , here in the states more so than ANYWHERE, we just put, civilized names on it , like 'soft-money' , Lobbying, etc.

You wanna talk about Sheer volumes of money sxchanged in pursuit of a single commercial goal, thats right the good ole' USA will win hands down every time.

I have a hope that the next major war wont be fought between countries with differing ideologies, but rather between the people and the corporations. But alas I am just an old crank....

I hope they do find another ISP soon, I have often wondered what ever happened to the Alternet idea ?

Re:In Asia, money talks (2, Interesting)

Commienst (102745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035453)

Corruption in America is institutionalized is the best way of putting it. The best thieves are the men who do nothing all day except own a large corporation and soak up profit from their thousands of workers. The best crooks throughout history have always been 'legit'.

Workers of the World, Unite! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035610)

You have nothing to lose but your chains!

Oh wait. That's been done before and it led to tens of millions of very dead people.

Never mind!

Re:Workers of the World, Unite! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035640)

Actually I am anarcho communist. I hate the Marxists and all other authoritarian statists. Read Peter Kropotkin's "Mutual Aid" and his other works.


Re:Workers of the World, Unite! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035668)

(but only briefly)

Is an anarcho communist the same thing as an anarchist? (I'm not baiting you, I really want to know)

I was interested to read somewhere that anarchists in the early part of the 20th century were as hated and feared as the terrorists now are at the early part of the 21st.

Rats, I can't think of anything clever using the usual concepts of homosexuality or goatsex. Tomrrow, I promise!

Re:Workers of the World, Unite! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035724)

Ok what you probably think is Communism is not really Communism. The first person with a clear vision of what I call Communism was named Sir Thomas Moore and he describes a communistic society in his book "Utopia." Under communism the whole of society holds all property in common.

Anarchism is just the opposition of all dominance, and especially of dominance by Capitalism and the State. There are many different factions within the anarchist movement like Libertarians(Socialist Anarchists), Green Anarchists, Anarchosyndicalists, Anarcho Communists, Christian anarchists(I do not consider them anarchist since they expect us to accept religious domination), etc. Anarcho Communists oppose the state and capital and believe that an economic system of mutual ownership should replace the Capitalism we will destroy.


Re:Workers of the World, Unite! (1)

spectral (158121) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035675)

As opposed to millions of people who are just dead (not VERY dead), or something similar?

Re:In Asia, money talks (1, Insightful)

Syberghost (10557) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035573)

Goddamn those corporations. How dare they create the kind of wealth that would let the average income be $36,000 a year, in a country where you have to actively refuse any help to starve.

Re:In Asia, money talks (1)

Commienst (102745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035397)

You are hilarious! I assure you corruption is rampant in every country. If you have enough money you can buy the law anywhere. Under capitalism everything can be bought, everything.

"you can pretty much skirt nearly any sort of law."

Same thing in America. In America OJ Simpson the famous murderer, was lucky to be rich enough to get away with murder. Apparently men cannot skirt paying alimony no matter how rich, but if you kill the harlet you can get off! America sure is a twisted country.

Re:In Asia, money talks (3, Interesting)

renard (94190) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035709)

Interesting idea; if you can show a payment was made to the Taiwanese ISP then the bribe would be a violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (1977, amended 1988) by the MPAA and indictable under US law.

Of course IANAL but see the code itself [] if you're interested in details.


Zim Rulz! (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035348)

OK so now is it on at a time I am home?

so, is this off-topic because there are so many topics?

OSX *BSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035352)

OSX Actually uses quite a bit from NetBSD also. Not sure which got most attention Net/Free but from looking at header files, a lot of it is NetBSD

Liar, liar, pants on fire! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035698)

os x is Mach with FreeBSD compatible layer. Sorry to burst your bubble, Bubba.

Re:Liar, liar, pants on fire! (2, Informative)

mstrjon32 (542309) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035791)

Actually, its possible to not install the BSD Compatibility layer at all when you install OS X. Anyone whose ever installed it would know that. Crazy PC users who have never had the privilage of using a mac...

OS X is a descendant of NeXTstep from NeXT computer, which Apple bought a few years ago with the hopes of using their software as a foundation for their new OS. On top of that, Apple only bought NeXT because they couldn't cut a deal with BeOS for their system.

NeXTstep was one of the most advanced operating systems for its time. Unfortunately, like most Steve Jobs products, NeXT computers were overpriced and ahead of their time. Yet, 10 years later, it has resurfaced as OS X.

Hey only another 5 until I can get a Newton!

Re:Liar, liar, pants on fire! (1)

MaxVlast (103795) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035831)

(I posted the following response to the post mentioned by the editors. It's still wrong -- there is no "compatibility layer."


Do you know what that means? "Based on NeXT" doesn't mean anything. NeXT was a company.

Mac OS X is based on OpenStep 4.2, which, itself, was based on NEXTSTEP 3.3. NEXTSTEP is a BSD operating system running on a modified version of the Mach microkernel. OpenStep is a API specification and a set of libraries that conforms to that API. OpenStep 4.2 (the operating system) is an implementation of those libraries on top of NEXTSTEP.

When Apple bought NeXT, they planned to build on top of OpenStep. They first produced Rhapsody for PPC and Rhapsody for Intel. They were the same OS running on two hardware platforms. On top of Rhapsody, Apple put the Blue Box, which was a Macintosh compatibility environment. At no time was there any need for a "BSD compatibility layer." It was all software running on top of BSD. Apple then killed Rhapsody for Intel (and the Yellow Box, but that's tangential.)

What was left was released as Mac OS Server.

Mac OS X 10.0 and Mac OS Server 10.0 (and further versions) are also BSD operating systems. They have the Cocoa (OpenStep) and Carbon libraries available, and the imaging system is called Aqua (replacement for Display PostScript.) At no point in any of this is there a need for any UNIX compatibility layer, as it is all real UNIX. The only compatibility environment necessary is for Mac OS 9 (Classic.) Only certain older applications (Carbon) can run natively on OS X, so for running non-Carbon apps, Mac OS 9 is run in a compatibility environment (similar, but not the same as VMWare.)

I hope that clarifies things.

Re:OSX *BSD (0)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035938)

So could os9 'classic' be run on a Net/Free box?

Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (4, Informative)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035356)

In case you didn't know, FOX is planning to pull the plug in it. Futurama is pretty good, but nothing compares to Family Guy! []

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035367)

I can't agree more. Sign the petition! Write a letter!

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035379)

If you think an online petition is going to affect anything in the real world, I've got a few bridges you might want to check out; low, low prices.

Politicians and businessmen pay zero attention to this point-and-click laziness.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (2)

CMiYC (6473) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035391)

I'd watch it more if it wasn't on at the same time as Friends. At least TiVO is smart enough to record Family Guy when Friends is a re-run, otherwise I would never see it.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035395)

Fox has already heard from the public on this issue: it's called ratings, and the public unequivocally said "shitcan it."

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (0)

soft_guy (534437) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035412)

Family Guy is the worst show on TV ever. It should be canceled.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035444)

You don't deserve to have a TV.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035482)

Well, I have to admit that for the about 40 episodes they have out, only 10 are really priceless (just awesome episodes, like "Screw the Pooch" for example), then about 10 episodes which are okay (entertaining but that's it), then the rest really sucks.
So if Family guy was more consistant it would be awesome.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035502)

I have to agree with you. I tried watching it the other day and it pretty much consisted of all potty jokes interspersed with fat jokes and sex jokes. Not a lot of funny ones in there either.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035639)

"Just don't tell her about my sexy parties"

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (4, Informative)

svferris (519966) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035416)

What I want to know is why we haven't seen Family Guy on DVD here in the U.S.? The U.K. has a Season 1 DVD [] , as well as a Futurama DVD [] . They even have an announcement for the Simpsons, Season 2 DVD [] .

Looks like I'm going to have to invest in a region-free DVD player.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (2, Informative)

Dr_LHA (30754) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035611)

What I want to know is why we haven't seen Family Guy on DVD here in the U.S.? The U.K. has a Season 1 DVD, as well as a Futurama DVD. They even have an announcement for the Simpsons, Season 2 DVD.

The same reason you can buy Enterprise on VHS and whole seasons of DS9, B5, Voyager, Buffy etc. The UK market is different from the US. For one thing they don't have syndication. In the US it's thought that allowing TV shows to be sold in on VHS or DVD would hurt syndication ratings.

Also in the UK the sale of VHS episodes is high because it usually takes a few months for the TV shows to be shown on regular TV over there. For example I first saw ST:TNG on VHS about a year before I saw it on TV (in the UK).

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (3, Interesting)

freakinPsycho (23459) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035632)

A lot of people seem to be confused about this.

Just because you have a region-free DVD player doesn't mean you can actually watch the movies you buy. If it's sold in the UK, chances are it's in PAL format. You can't watch that format on your NTSC TV, sorry.

You either have to get a TV that can play both or you get a converter. Take your pick, and neither are cheap.

If I'm wrong about this, feel free to tell me. But from the research I've done, this is true.

I wish it weren't.. then I could get Neverwhere on DVD and be able to watch it...

Try APEX (2)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035680)

My APEX DVD player is region free, and can play both NTSC and PAL discs, even if you have a TV that doesn't support that standard; it autoconverts the output as necessary.

Re:Try APEX (2)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035707)

Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!

Re:Try APEX (1)

freakinPsycho (23459) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035745)

Which model is that? I can't find anything that says it will do the converting, only that it can output both formats.

I would just mail you instead of using /. like this, but not mail address shown for you.

AD-600A (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035907)

I bought one back in 2000 and its been awesome. The loopholes menu lets you switch regions, disable macrovision and even disable CSS! The only problem to buying a dvd from is the currency conversion and getting raped on shipping. Does that 15% VAT tax apply to me? Fucking EU.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (2)

debrain (29228) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035669)

What I want to know is why we haven't seen Family Guy on DVD here in the U.S.?

Your local monopolies giving your trouble? I suggest you explore alternatives such as Morpheus, Kazaa, Gnutella, and Freenet. Although not as convenient as consuming pre-fabricated materials, the same material is often provided at the cost of bandwidth.

Although they are without the arbitrary and arcane and draconian restrictions found in the essentially naive government sponsored owners, there is no guarantee that you will be able to find the material you need - however keep in mind that supply will rise to meet demand, in spite of the efforts of the draconians.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (1)

The Man (684) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035571)

So what? Family Guy is not funny, not original, not creative, not visually elegant or well-done, and not entertaining in any way. There are probably worse programs on TV (Voyager, TNG, and the CowboyNeal Smile Time Variety Hour come to mind) but not by much. I won't miss Family Guy at all. Futurama, I would miss, except that Fox never really showed it after the first few episodes. It was always baseball, or some movie they would start early, or whatever. I would happily pay $100 for a DVD set containing every episode ever made, however.

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (3, Funny)

Afrosheen (42464) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035720)

Oh, I dunno about that. The CowboyMeal Buffet Luncheon hour is pretty entertaining. That foodfight that broke out between him and CmdrTaco was an uproar!

What I want to see is the excellent Clerks! cartoon continued. I have the 2 dvd set, it's all classic, and another victim of corporate 'policy'. The Tick (live action) can rot in hell, it was a stupid idea to begin with. Some things just aren't meant to be live action. Could you imagine the horror of Speed Racer live action? Or Garfield?

Re:Futurama? How about Family Guy?!? (4, Funny)

JayAndSilentBob (517888) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035771)

Amen about the clerks, brother. Me and Silent Bob loved that show. We were raking in the mad money. That shit was better than selling smoke! But that wasn't like us at all, all cartooney and shit. But we do miss the phat cash. I gotta get out of here before that tubby bitch breaks out that fuckin' Amy story again. Snoogans.

MTV's Downtown: Too young to die, dammit! (2)

MsGeek (162936) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035941)

Family Guy? What about Downtown???

That show NEVER had a chance. MTV YOU SUCK!!!!

Hate that! (3, Interesting)

Aknaton (528294) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035365)

Even though they may have a case, I just don't like the fact that some major corporation can shut down your website based solely on their word.

In my opinion, this is something only a court should be able to order.

Re:Hate that! (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035406)

Agreed, though we're rapidly progressing toward a world where you won't be allowed to have a web site unless you're a major corporation. Don't you get it? You're a consumer. Your role is to pay for information and services; perhaps if you're lucky you'll even derive some benefit from them. But that's optional.

We'll talk fondly someday of the time when we had citizens as well as consumers. But face it: at this point, unless you've got money to pass around, your opinion is completely worthless. So just sit back, watch your television, pay your ISP bill, listen to some manufactured pop music (from physical media, of course), and for heaven's sake, don't use too much bandwidth or express an unpopular opinion!

Re:Hate that! (2)

nettdata (88196) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035986)

Even though they may have a case, I just don't like the fact that some major corporation can shut down your website based solely on their word.

You know, I agree, and I don't like that fact either, but at the end of the day, it was the site's actions that caused them to be shut down.

Some may call it intimidation, but the site WAS in the wrong (or at least a VERY shady area), and it wasn't the ISP's fight. And it speaks volumes that the site didn't pursue it legally, but rather just went looking for another ISP.

In some wierd way, I have a bit of respect for a company that doesn't just sick the lawyers on someone and get an injunction, but calls them up and says "hey, this isn't right, and if it doesn't stop, we'll have to do something about it".

Wide! (-1)

Klerck (213193) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035371)

.I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .e

Re:Wide! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035441)

<nelson>HA, HA!</nelson>

Looks like your nefarious scheme was FOILED.

FOILED, you silly BITCH.

Re:Wide! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035493)

Why does IE not wrap that text of yours? It does contain spaces. Other browsers do wrap it. I guess it's a "feature" of IE. They don't want geeks to be able turn an "ls -a" output into an html file without going through MS FrontPage or something.

This has been... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035372)

...the WORST Troll Tuesday, EVER!!! Where is everyone? Hardly a troll to be found relative to other Troll Tuesdays.

Possible antitrust? (5, Interesting)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035381)

Movie88 had posed an unexpected threat to studios' own video-on-demand services such as Movielink and, which are still months away from commercial service.

The Taiwanese site was run on a video-store model, allowing people to "rent" access to movies for three days in return for a payment of just $1. The movies, which were streamed to a computer in RealNetworks' video format, could not easily be saved to a hard drive or downloaded.

So how is Movie88 a pirate site if it attempts to prevent downloading of the videos? (Yes, I know Real Video can be downloaded with some utilities, but then again, you could copy rental video tapes/DVDs with the right hardware too)

How is it different in concept from any video store for that matter?

And most importantly, how is it different than the movie studios getting into the act, except for where the money goes? (Do video stores like Blockbuster have to pay royalties to movie studios? Curious...)

Re:Possible antitrust? (1)

Miniluv (165290) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035452)

"Do video stores like Blockbuster have to pay royalties to movie studios? Curious..."
They pay royaltiesin the form of highly expensive physical media which then gets rented out over and over until it wears out.
Movie88 wouldn't have to worry about the wearing out, and I'm guessing that since this happened they probably didn't pay jack to the movie houses.

Blockbuster *does* pay movie studios... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035459)

They pay royalties for both the sales and rentals. There was an article in the NY Times regarding the fact that they make more money renting than selling (specifically DVDs) because of the way the royalties are dished out.

I've become pretty sick of the whole digital media thing and have just abandoned both buying CDs and renting movies froom Blockbuster. I do use my DirecTivo and pay-per-view since between the two I can always find soomething I want to watch. I currently dole out approximately $100 a month for TV/Cable entertainment and hope as little as possible go to the big studios.

Re:Possible antitrust? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035471)

except for where the money goes?

You just answered your own question. If the studios don't get their cut, they bring the hammer down on you. That's a lot like the mafia, now that I think about it...

Re:Possible antitrust? (3, Interesting)

ncc74656 (45571) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035524)

So how is Movie88 a pirate site if it attempts to prevent downloading of the videos? (Yes, I know Real Video can be downloaded with some utilities, but then again, you could copy rental video tapes/DVDs with the right hardware too)

Movie88 served up movies with Apache, not RealServer. This made downloading/saving almost trivial. I used FlashGet, with Muffin in front of it to rewrite the user-agent string to make FlashGet appear to the server as RealPlayer 8 instead.

Everything they had that was (probably) ripped from DVD had captions, though...stuff like American History X or eXistenZ, not just foreign-language stuff where subtitles would be useful. Given that adding captions back into the video involves extra work when you're transcoding from DVD (the captions are stored as overlay graphics in the MPEG program stream), you have to wonder why they did this.

Re:Possible antitrust? (2)

Ryu2 (89645) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035566)

It's useful (at least for me) for learning foreign languages to listen to the spoken words while having the written text on the bottom.

I assume that most Movie88 customers were in Taiwan, and do not speak English as their native language.

Re:Possible antitrust? (1)

harlows_monkeys (106428) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035693)

How is it different from a video store? Video stores have permission.

Re:Possible antitrust? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035818)

Seeing as Paramount is a sibling company of Blockbuster (both owned by Viacom), I'm sure there's absolutely no shady practices to keep outside rental stores from operating. After all, when Paramount (Viacom) releases a movie, Blockbuster (Viacom) must pay Paramount (Viacom) for the right to rent the movie. Then when you rent the movie, Blockbuster (Viacom) gets some money and everyone's happy. Sure, it's nice to have Hollywood Video (Hollywood Entertainment) around for a little while to bring money into the scheme, but why make it complicated with lots of independent rental shops? When you're ready, you can just acquire your single competitor and have the whole thing to yourself. These Movie 88 people are obviously guilty of infringing on the studios' newest source of money (five of seven agreed on Moviefly, which may have since been renamed (?)), which affects the American economy, which of course means that Taiwan is another country that's part of the Axis of Evil!

Ok, calm down.. calm down.. they're not all out to get you... it just seems that way. It just seems that way. It just seems that way. It just seems that way. It just...

No "legal" action? (3, Funny)

Esgaroth (515377) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035385)

If they "took no legal action", does that mean everything they did was illegal?

Sorry, it had to be said.

About time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035439)

You idiot understood what X is. but it deosn't matter. X is now the *Nix like OS with the largest market share. It is yummy and it is good. And I will help sell Linux/BSD servers and help bring down M$.


A CRANK? Submitting to Slashdot? And SALON? (3, Funny)

sulli (195030) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035443)

Bestill my beating heart!

When it's worth more... (5, Funny)

mengel (13619) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035465) someone else to shut you down than it is to you to be online, a for-profit ISP is motivated to take a payment to turn you off.

I wonder if we'll start seeing ISPs advertising rates to shut down customers:

  • Turn off a Normal Account $2000
  • Turn off a Priority Account $4000
  • Turn off High Bandwith Account $50000
You will be informed in 10 days whether the account has outbid you to re-enable service...

Sounds kind of like something out of a Gibson novel.

HBO Should Buy Futurama (3, Interesting)

scotpurl (28825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035473)

Quite seriously. HBO needs something animated to balance all that real-life action stuff, :-), and Futurama isn't a bad choice. Could give the show a little more edge, and supply many more comedy possibilities (and likely a little cartoon nudity), plus HBO won't get hysterical at episodes like "Kwanzabot" and prevent their airing.

David Cohen, you out there? Shop that show around.

Re:HBO Should Buy Futurama (1)

Pacifix (465793) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035613)

This could be the best idea I've heard all year. Most importantly, we could have a new character: Tony Soprano thought to have been 'iced' by a mob hit wakes up in the year 3000 and moves in on the professor's delivery business!

Re:HBO Should Buy Futurama (2)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035706)

Maybe not *many* more comedy possibilities... I mean South Park was great in movie form so they could discuss swearing and the such, but I'm sure hearing Cartman say PigFucker would get old after a few seasons... but then again people said the simpsons would get old after a few seasons...

I've always wondered why there aren't more "adult cartoons" on more mainstream stations. Not even pr0nt00ns, just anime or even serious animation aimed at 14-40 year olds on one of the HBO's. There's certainly a market for it.

Re:HBO Should Buy Futurama (2)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035750)

I don't know what you mean by mainstream stations, but there were attempts by the other major networks to imitate the Simpsons, after their large success. You had that thing with the muppet dinosaurs, which wasn't animated, but supposedly aiming for Simpson-ness.

You had things like the Critic, and a couple other attempts. Nothing stuck.

Zim airing regularly? (1)

tskirvin (125859) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035478)

They haven't aired a new episode of Zim since October. I haven't heard of any plans to air new episodes yet. Therefore, I kindof doubt that the above reasons for not cancelling Zim are valid...nor do I think that Zim has been saved.
-Tim Skirvin (

Re:Zim airing regularly? (1)

NickFusion (456530) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035782)

The audience is building because they are airing the old episodes more regularly. And there are a few new episodes in the pipe.

The Art Of Cunnilingus (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035535)

Hey, .I .have .a .lot .of .respect .for .all .you .guys .who .like .to .eat .pussy .because .there .are .too .few .of .you .out .there. .And .I'm .not .the .only .woman .who .says .this. .Furthermore, .some .of .you .guys .who .are .giving .it .the .old .college .try .are .not .doing .too .well, .so .maybe .this .little .lesson .will .help .you .out. .When .a .woman .finds .a .man .who .gives .good .head, .she's .found .a .treasure .she's .not .going .to .let .go .of .him .too .quickly. .This .is .one .rare .customer .and .she .knows .it. .She .won't .even .tell .her .girlfriends .about .it .or .that .guy .will .become .the .most .popular .man .in .town. .So, .remember, .most .guys .can .fuck, .and .those .who .can .usually .do .it .satisfactorily, .but .the .guy .who .gives .good .head, .he's .got .it .made. . .Most .women .are .shy .about .their .bodies. .Even .if .you've .got .the .world's .most .gorgeous .woman .in .bed .with .you, .she's .going .to .worry .about .how .you .like .her .body. .Tell .her .it's .beautiful, .tell .her .which .parts .you .like .best, .tell .her .anything, .but .get .her .to .trust .you .enough .to .let .you .down .between .her .legs. .Now .stop .and .look .at .what .you .see. . .Beautiful, .isn't .it? . .There .is .nothing .that .makes .a .woman .more .unique .than .her .pussy. . .I .know. .I've .seen .plenty .of .them. .They .come .in .all .different .sizes, .colors .and .shapes; .some .are .tucked .inside .like .a .little .girl's .cunnie .and .some .have .thick .luscious .lips .that .come .out .to .greet .you. .Some .are .nested .in .brushes .of .fur .and .others .are .covered .with .transparent .fuzz. .Appreciate .your .woman's .unique .qualities .and .tell .her .what .makes .her .special. .Women .are .a .good .deal .more .verbal .than .men, .especially .during .lovemaking. .They .also .respond .more .to .verbal .love, .which .means, .the .more .you .talk .to .her, .the .easier .it .will .be .to .get .her .off. .So .all .the .time .you're .petting .and .stroking .her .beautiful .pussy, .talk .to .her .about .it. . .A .little .noise .on .your .part .usually .doesn't .hurt, .and .sometimes .it .helps. .Some .women .are .very .hung .up .on .cunnilingus, .determined .to .believe .that, .no .matter .how .much .you .say .otherwise (and .she .claims .to .believe .you), .it .may .be .at .least .a .little .unpleasant .for .you. .If .you're .excited .by .her .responses, .or .by .the .act .itself, .don't .try .to .stay .quiet .about .it. .The .same .kind .of .sounds .that .will .reassure .and .excite .a .lover .when .they're .pleasuring .you .will .often .work .when .you're .pleasuring .them, .too. .This .could .be .considered .a .secret .weapon .in .sex .in .general, .because .most .guys .are .rather .quiet, .and .yet .women .almost .always .find .responsiveness .very .exciting. .The .contrast .between .someone .who's .responsive .and .most .of .the .other .guys .makes .it .even .more .effective .than .it .would .already .have .been. . .Now .look .at .it .again. . .Gently .pull .the .lips .apart .and .look .at .her .inner .lips, .even .lick .them .if .you .want .to. .Now .spread .the .tops .of .her .pussy .up .until .you .can .find .her .clit. .Women .have .clits .in .all .different .sizes, .just .like .you .guys .have .different .sized .cocks. .It .doesn't .mean .a .thing .as .far .as .her .capacity .for .orgasm. .All .it .means .is .more .of .her .is .hidden .underneath .her .foreskin. . .Whenever .you .touch .a .woman's .pussy, .make .sure .your .finger .is .wet. .You .can .lick .it .or .moisten .it .with .juices .from .inside .her. .Be .sure, .by .all .means, .to .wet .it .before .you .touch .her .clit .because .it .doesn't .have .any .juices .of .its .own .and .it's .extremely .sensitive. .Your .finger .will .stick .to .it .if .it's .dry .and .that .hurts. .But .you .don't .want .to .touch .her .clit .anyway. .You .have .to .work .up .to .that. .Before .she .becomes .aroused, .her .clit .is .too .delicate .to .be .handled. . .Approach .her .pussy .slowly. .Women, .even .more .so .than .men, .love .to .be .teased. .The .inner .part .of .her .thigh .is .her .most .tender .spot. .Lick .it, .kiss .it, .make .designs .on .it .with .the .tip .of .your .tongue. .Come .dangerously .close .to .her .pussy, .then .float .away. .Make .her .anticipate .it. . .Now .lick .the .crease .where .her .leg .joins .her .pussy. .Nuzzle .your .face .into .her .bush .and .breathe .through .your .mouth .onto .her .genitals. .Brush .your .lips .over .her .slit .without .pressing .down .on .it .to .further .excite .her. .After .you've .done .this .to .the .point .where .your .lady .is .bucking .up .from .her .seat .and .she's .straining .to .get .more .of .you .closer .to .her, .then .put .your .lips .right .on .top .of .her .slit. . .Kiss .her, .gently, .then .harder. .Now .use .your .tongue .to .separate .her .pussy .lips .and .when .she .opens .up, .run .your .tongue .up .and .down .between .the .layers .of .pussy .flesh. .Gently .spread .her .legs .more .with .your .hands. .Everything .you .do .with .a .woman .you're .about .to .eat .must .be .done .gently. . .Tonguefuck .her. .This .feels .divine. .It .also .teases .the .hell .out .of .her .because .by .now .she .wants .some .attention .given .to .her .clit. .Check .it .out. .See .if .her .clit .has .gotten .hard .enough .to .peek .out .of .its .covering. .If .so, .lick .it. .If .you .can't .see .it, .it .might .still .be .waiting .for .you .underneath. .So .bring .your .tongue .up .to .the .top .of .her .slit .and .feel .for .her .clit. .You .may .barely .experience .its .presence. .But .even .if .you .can't .feel .the .tiny .pearl, .you .can .make .it .rise .by .licking .the .skin .that .covers .it. .Lick .hard .now .and .press .into .her .skin. . .Licking .doesn't .have .to .be .as .simple .as .it .sounds, .either. .You .can .keep .your .tongue .soft, .and .gently .caress .it, .or .tighten .your .tongue .to .something .of .a .point .and .rhythmically .lick .at .it. . .Gently .pull .the .pussy .lips .away .and .flick .your .tongue .against .the .clit, .hood .covered .or .not. .Do .this .quickly. .This .should .cause .her .legs .to .shudder. .When .you .sense .she's .getting .up .there .toward .orgasm, .make .your .lips .into .an .O .and .take .the .clit .into .your .mouth. .Start .to .suck .gently .and .watch .your .lady's .face .for .her .reaction. .If .she .can .handle .it, .begin .to .suck .harder. .If .she .digs .it, .suck .even .harder. .Go .with .her. .If .she .lifts .her .pelvis .into .the .air .with .the .tension .of .her .rising .orgasm, .move .with .her, .don't .fight .her. .Hang .on, .and .keep .your .hot .mouth .on .her .clit. .Don't .let .go. .That's .what .she'll .be .saying .too: .'Don't .stop. .Don't .ever .stop!' . .There's .a .reason .for .that . .most .men .stop .too .soon. .Just .like .with .cock .sucking, .this .is .something .worth .learning .about .and .worth .learning .to .do .well. .I .know .a .man .who's .a .lousy .fuck, .simply .lousy, .but .he .can .eat .pussy .like .nobody .I .know .and .he .never .has .trouble .getting .a .date. .Girls .are .falling .all .over .him. . .But .back .to .your .pussy .eating .session...There's .another .thing .you .can .do .to .intensify .your .woman's .pleasure. .You .can .fingerfuck .her .while .she's .enjoying .your .clitlicking .talents. .Before, .during .or .after. .She'll .really .like .it. .In .addition .to .the .erogenous .zones .surrounding .her .clit, .a .woman .has .another .extremely .sensitive .area .at .the .roof .of .her .vagina. .This .is .what .you .rub .up .against .when .you're .fucking .her. .Well, .since .your .cock .is .pretty .far .away .from .your .mouth, .your .fingers .will .have .to .do .the .fucking. . .Take .two .fingers. .One .is .too .skinny .and .three .is .too .wide .and .therefore .can't .get .deep .enough. .Make .sure .they're .wet .so .you .don't .irritate .her .skin. .Slide .them .inside, .slowly .at .first, .then .a .little .faster. .Fuck .her .with .them .rhythmically. .Speed .up .only .when .she .does. .Listen .to .her .breathing. . .She'll .let .you .know .what .to .do. .If .you're .sucking .her .clit .and .fingerfucking .her .at .the .same .time, .you're .giving .her .far .more .stimulation .than .you .would .be .giving .her .with .your .cock .alone. .So .you .can .count .on .it .that .she's .getting .high .on .this. .If .there's .any .doubt, .check .her .out .for .symptoms. .Each .woman .is .unique. .You .may .have .one .whose .nipples .get .hard .when .she's .excited .or .only .when .she's .having .an .orgasm. .Your .girl .might .flush .red .or .begin .to .tremble. .Get .to .know .her .symptoms .and .you'll .be .a .more .sensitive .lover. . .When .she .starts .to .have .an .orgasm, .for .heaven's .sakes, .don't .let .go .of .that .clit. .Hang .in .there .for .the .duration. .When .she .starts .to .come .down .from .the .first .orgasm, .press .your .tongue .along .the .underside .of .the .clit, .leaving .your .lips .covering .the .top. .Move .your .tongue .in .and .out .of .her .cunt. .If .your .fingers .are .inside, .move .them .a .little .too, .gently .though, .things .are .extremely .sensitive .just .now. . .If .you .play .your .cards .right, .you'll .get .some .multiple .orgasms .this .way. .A .woman .stays .excited .for .a .full .hour .after .she's .had .an .orgasm. .Do .you .realize .the .full .impact .of .that .information? .The .potential? .One .woman .was .clocked .at .56 .orgasms .at .one .sitting. .Do .you .know .what .effect .you .would .have .on .a .woman .you .gave .56 .orgasms .to? .She'd .be .yours .as .long .as .you .wanted .her. . .The .last .advice .I .have .for .you .is .this: .After .you've .made .her .come, .made .her .your .slave .by .giving .her .the .best .head .she's .ever .had, .don't .leave .her .alone .just .yet. .Talk .to .her, .stroke .her .body, .caress .her .breasts. .Keep .making .love .to .her .quietly .until .she's .come .all .the .way .down. .A .man .can .get .off .and .go .to .sleep .in .the .same .breath .and .feel .no .remorse, .no .sense .of .loss. .But .a .woman .by .nature .requires .some .sensitivity .from .her .lover .in .those .first .few .moments .after .sex. . .Oral .sex .can .be .the .most .exciting .sexual .experiences .you .can .have. .But .it's .what .you .make .it. .Take .your .time, .practice .often, .pay .attention .to .your .lover's .signals, .and .most .of .all, .enjoy .yourself. . .

MEEPT!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035596)

Oh my god. so many things to comment on:

1. Wireless:

It says in the bible that "Drink my blood" is good, so why does wireless get such a good press? Can't we all just drink blood and be happy? Why? Because : Wireless *IS* good, and here's why:

2^N(1*455.234) electrons sent through a slapdown filter survice if they have a 2^N (X) in their comments.

Ughghhgghghghghgh. This is what blows it. No Vowels. More or less. on a (2^n(1.5) electron-volt) to a moderator hom o se xual means -1


Well, a lot of "ugh", but no more comment.

I rest the late meept's case.

Meept is still available, but waiting for a better class of whatever @

I am a meept missionary. Plain and simple. Join me or face the future of nothingness.

[it can never be stopped]


OS X (5, Informative)

Stenpas (513317) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035598)

Since OS X is one of the topics of slashback, it might be worth mentioning that a new update to MacOS X was released. 10.1.3. Here's what it offers:

1.CD Disc Recording Peripherals: Expanded support for QPS, EZQuest, LaCie, Yamaha, MCE Technologies and Sony devices
2.Image Capture and iPhoto: Improved support for several digital camera models from Canon, Kodak and Sony
3.DVD Playback on external VGA displays on PowerBook G4
4.PowerBook video mirroring will be on by default when connecting to a new display
5.Improvements for iTunes when the full screen visualizer is used
6.Login authentication support for LDAP and Active Directory services
7.OpenSSH version 3.0.2p1
8.WebDAV support for Digest authentication
9.Mail includes support for SSL encryption

Get it via Software Update. If you're a bit hesistant, might want to wait for what [] says. And MacsOnly [] does a variety of speed tests for every version released. I'm sure they'll put up new benchmarks shortly.

Re:OS X (1, Interesting)

syzxys (557810) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035719)

8.WebDAV support for Digest authentication

That's interesting, because AFAIK MSIE still doesn't support Digest authentication for WebDAV shares (a.k.a. "Web Folders"). (At least, IE5.5 doesn't, and IIRC neither does IE6). It seems to get confused and try to access the site using FrontPage extensions instead, which of course doesn't work because it's running Apache 2.0 [] . That makes it hard to interoperate MSIE with other WebDAV products (like Subversion [] ), at least if you're using Digest auth. I'm glad to see at least someone [] is actually trying to implement web standards, instead of mixing them together with proprietary stuff. Anyway, just my $0.02.
Windows 2000/XP stable? safe? secure? 5 lines of simple C code say otherwise! []

google cache of p2p site for "circle" (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035600)

The Google cache of The Circle: one ring, no rulers [] for scalable cooperative file system and P2P networking.

ZIM SAVED!!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035612)


Why I like Apple (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035666)

I like Apple because, although they are attractive enough for homosexuals, they are easy enough for Negroes.

The best of both worlds.

why is it... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3035681)

That EVERY SINGLE TOPIC in this cheeseball update is identical to those shown on today's Kokorama [] posting?

Speaking of Open source P2P networks... (1)

anti11es (167289) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035685)

giFT [] (which is now GNU Internet File Transfer) has implemented OpenFT and its now working quite well in a good "alpha" state. It still needs work, but it is getting better every day. Check it out, it's definitely headed places.

yeah (2)

Trepidity (597) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035819)

and there might actually be people on its network if it had a windows version available.

Prior art (3, Funny)

salmo (224137) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035701)

I think it's really funny that in an article about intellectual property and prior art Tim O'Reilly cites Morgan's Tarot as the origination of the quote "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." All good geeks know that's from J.R.R. Tolkein's The Lord of the Rings. Woops!

Speaking of prior art... (2)

mattdm (1931) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035723)

There used to be a mock Tarot deck called Morgan's Tarot, which had a card that said, "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." Dealing with lawyers is like that. -- Tim O'Reilly's patent article []

Morgan's Tarot [] , copyright 1970. Lord of the Rings, completed in 1948.

Geez, you'd think he'd know better. Or maybe O'Reilly only deals with Unix wizards? (Who, from my experience may be subtle but are generally nice ....)

Investigating O'Reilly charge of crank - smear? (3, Informative)

Seth Finkelstein (90154) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035732)

My ears always perk up when a journalist with the ability to be heard dismisses a critic by slinging mud at them. I have a lot of sympathy for the underdogs in that situation, in part because of What Happened To The Censorware Project ( []

And I've learned some great things by being willing to listen to the target.

TheoDP briefly laid out his complaint in his own words in a Usenet Posting []

At the very least, this makes me dubious about the claim by O'Reilly that TheoDP wouldn't explain the relevance of his material.

Hmm, let's compare, O'Reilly claims, regarding TheoDP:

He sent in hundreds of pages of material without any explanation of why he believed any particular part of it invalidated the patent, and all of those who looked at it couldn't see the remotest relevance. Requests for clarification about just what in this material represented prior art were met with avoidance and hostility. His continued harrassment of both me and BountyQuest has convinced me that he's some kind of a crank.
Now let's look at a news report published at the time [] : (I've added emphasis below)
The story gets weirder still. Another contestant in the Amazon sweepstakes has stepped forward, complaining that his entry was one of four BountyQuest cited as a ``Terrific Submission'' but that, unlike the other three, he didn't get any money.

Ted Conway, a freelance programmer in Chicago, submitted details of a system used by IBM in the 1970s to order and ship printed reports. ``The parallels to Amazon's system are very similar,'' Conway tells me. (He notes that Bezos worked at IBM's San Jose research labs in college and likely would have used the IBM system.)

BountyQuest didn't agree and offered Conway a T-shirt as a consolation prize. Conway now accuses BountyQuest of pulling a whitewash to protect Amazon's legal case.

In a Q&A posted today on (, an online partner of the Mercury News, O'Reilly says Conway's submission isn't relevant to the Amazon patent. But he admits he's not clear how BountyQuest officials researched and judged the entries. Cella declined to answer any questions about the contest.

Matthew Powers, managing partner of the Silicon Valley office of Weil, Gotshal & Manges, says it's unlikely the site would try to cover for Amazon.

The Menlo Park patent attorney says the publicity ``would be so valuable for BountyQuest that there's no way in the world they would not have accepted a submission that killed the patent

How interesting. I assume TheoDP is Ted Conway.

Pending further evidence. I'm inclined to side with TheoDP. It looks like the power of journalism again. Throw the mud, make the smear, virtually no-one will ever check the evidence, and the target can't fight back. Yes, my experiences [] do color my view here.

Sorry, Paul, no cigar (4, Interesting)

Salamander (33735) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035733)

The previous Slashdot article was about n-dimensional cube or torus topologies. Paul Harrison's "Circle" network (slashdotted - Google cache [] ) is...wait for it...a simple circle. Sort of like Chord, it seems, but less sophisticated. It's not at all clear why a reasonable person would expect Circle to scale particularly well, especially in an environment with high node turnover (lots of potentially circle-breaking join/leave operations).

There's nothing wrong with Circle. It just doesn't seem to meet the promise of being a fully functional network that scales better than Gnutella.

Re:Sorry, Paul, no cigar (2)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035850)

There's nothing wrong with Circle... But there is a lot wrong with proposing it as an "implementation" of a highly-scalable P2P network. I mean... this thing takes O(N) hops! That's ridiculous! Maybe if this was Step 1 of the process of turning it into a multi-dimensional torus network...

Which, now that I think about it, should become the goal. You could probably use the circle network as the basis for a torus. To get a d-dimensional torus, just hack up the 128-bit keyspace into d sections, and each of the sections serves as a coordinate in that dimension much like the entire key does in the current 1-dimensional implementation...

Heh. Maybe I should email the guy? Or not...

movie88's troubles... (1)

atomic brainslide (87546) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035754)

the whole issue with movie88 getting shut down by their isp should not really revolve aruond the copyright issue. we can be pretty sure that movie88 signed some sort of contract when they signed up with their isp. if the isp violated this contract, movie88 just has to sue the crap out of 'em. if the contract wasn't violated by the isp, then they should have been smarter about their choice of isps. i really don't see any other issues in this circumstance.

Re:movie88's troubles... (1)

Vadim Makarov (529622) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035912)

Can anyone point me at an ISP that does not have something like "we can terminate your account at our sole discretion, at any time, with no reason given whatsoever" in their standard terms of service?

I think, virtually ISPs include this statement. If that was the case with HiNet and they acted in accordance with their Terms of Service, you can't complain about it, period. If you do complain, please at least make it clear whether ISP violated the contract or not.

Don't make politics where there is only commerce. Or so they said shutting down the Russian TV6 channel...

Zim.. sniff.. (3, Interesting)

napa1m (154836) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035837)

Zim is in fact, still cancelled. I work at nick, I've seen the ratings from last month, the above statements are, unfortunately, untrue :(

There are still some episodes left to air that are being finished up, including a possible xmas episode, there will be a total of about 27 episodes when all is said and done, but there are no "new" shows nor a "next season" after this lot. Sorry.

Aerie and Lampposts (2)

fm6 (162816) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035869)

The most interesting thing about the ressurect Ricochet is its relationship with local governments. The service is dependent on these entities, 'cause all those fixed transceivers are housed in lampposts and other municipal fixtures. Metricom would go to appropriate official and negotiate a kind of rental aggreement. Probably the main reason they ran through so much money so quickly -- they had to pay enough money to convince the locals that it was all worth the trouble.

Now Aerie is going back to these same local authorities and saying, "We can't afford to pay you, but if you help us, we'll give you wireless communication services for free." Not only does this save a lot of money, it creates a local vested interest in making the network work.

Still, $40/month is a lot to pay for something this slow.

Flat search network that scales (4, Interesting)

PureFiction (10256) | more than 12 years ago | (#3035881)

Circle is cool, but it is really a subset of Chord, with searching kind of hacked on top of a hashing index system (i.e. search is implemented by tying keywords to hashes and distributing this hash space.)

This means that high peer churn rates, hot spots in popular keywords, spamming keywords, etc, all make this a rather vulnerable and fragile implementation of searching. It probably is better than gnutella, but that isnt saying much, and it certainly does not mean it is 'infinitely scalable'. The real world is a harsh place...

If you want a scalable, distributed search/discovery mechanism for large peer networks here is your recipe:

1. Build on a base of juicy lightweight UDP messaging. This allows you to send messages directly to peers, circumvent NAT's, and handle many thousands of virtual connections.

2. Sending queries to many thousands of peers is still a large task, even if only small packets are sent directly. Must optimize this.

3. Optimize by using a social discovery mechanism to keep track of which peers are good at answering your queries. Query them first and more often than other peers. Call this peer ranking the 'relative quality' of the peer.

4. Optimize further by halting the query once a sufficient number of matches are found. This way you only need to query a handfull of peers (maybe 10, maybe 200) to complete a query.

5. Finally, perform transitive introduction using the high quality peers in your group. This way you use peers with a high quality to find new peers, and it is highly likely that they will be high quality peers as well.

This is how the ALPINE Network [] works, and it scales. The number of connections any peer may have is solely up to their discretion, based on bandwidth and memory resources. All communication is direct, and every peer is in direct control over his own resources, which makes for a very robust environment.

There are a number of details, the above simply a 30,000ft description. If you are interested you can read more in the ALPINE Overview [] and the ALPINE FAQ [] .

One last comment, this stuff is no longer vaporware [] :-)
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