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Stanford Mouse Video Archive

chrisd posted more than 12 years ago | from the fun-with-a-soldering-iron dept.

News 140

serutan writes "Stanford University has a retro-cool series of video clips of a 1968 presentation that foreshadowed the Internet and marked the public debut of the mouse. It is a surreal, weirdly captivating piece of computer history." Part of the site includes a solicitation for those who have memories and stories about the old days of computing, when programs were measured in inches and people felt they were lucky, lucky I tell you, to have ones and zeros.

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140 comments

First Post (-1, Troll)

critic666 (317551) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037269)

Woo hoo

Nice one... (-1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037316)

But more importantly, what are we going to do about the negroids that are employed in crematoriums. They clearly have no respect for white burial practises, preferring instead to take white corpses home for their own molestation and voodoo rituals.

Far better to cremate negroids en-masse. Funeral pyres of filthy demonic sub-races that are stacked miles high, illuminating the master race's ascent into Heaven.

Re:Nice one... (-1)

Frank White (515786) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037333)

I, Ralph Jewhater Nader, agree with you, because I am a stupid asshole who trolls inconsistently.

No wait, that's someone else.

We saw this recently - its got a hyperlink demo (4, Informative)

iainl (136759) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037276)

The page linked is, of course, the one from BT's hyperlink patent story [slashdot.org] we discussed recently. One of the videos on the site demonstrates the use of that very thing.

Re:We saw this recently - its got a hyperlink demo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037281)

It's also a dupe of this story from 2000. [slashdot.org]

Re:We saw this recently - its got a hyperlink demo (1)

iainl (136759) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037290)

D'oh! The link wasn't given in the main text of that story, but in this highly informative comment [slashdot.org] that was linked to during it. I knew I'd seen it before from that thread, just forgot where.

Re:We saw this recently - its got a hyperlink demo (2, Insightful)

blane.bramble (133160) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037297)

That's the beauty of hypertext and hyperlinking, you don't need to duplicate the data, you can link to it multiple times from multiple sites!

Re:We saw this recently - its got a hyperlink demo (2, Funny)

rsklnkv (532866) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037307)

So basically, everything on the net now works like the Kevin Bacon game : Every bit of it can be connected within five hyperlinks or less.

t e s t (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037331)

please ignore this post

and OSS projects

spreading the news. (3, Insightful)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037430)

Of course, by spreading the link to those very videos around the net, we make sure the almost anyone who cares knows that BT is just being a bit greedy. and very foolish.

God, I'd love to see this on the national news someplace.

This story is a repeat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037280)

another repeat

Text version in case slashdot is slashdotted: (-1)

Mayor McPenisman (557253) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037292)

serutan writes "Stanford University has a retro-cool series of video clips of a 1968 presentation that foreshadowed the Internet and marked the public debut of the mouse. It is a surreal, weirdly captivating piece of computer history." Part of the site includes a solicitation for those who have memories and stories about the old days of computing, when programs were measured in inches and people felt they were lucky, lucky I tell you, to have ones and zeros.

60's stuff (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037300)

Hey man, whacky, groovy and crazy, man.
/me smokes his cannabis

Re:60's stuff (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037319)

that shit will break your bones

Ivies... (0, Offtopic)

Ando[evilmedic] (199537) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037301)

It's the Ivy League theme-day on Slashdot!

Re:Ivies... (1)

jeffy124 (453342) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037403)

Stanford aint Ivy League. Ivy League schools are only in the northeast. See list of Ivy schools [go.com] , and list containing Stanford's conf (the Pac-10 [go.com] . I do agree, however, that Stanford would be Ivy if they were on the east coast.

Anybody remember.. (2, Interesting)

Space Coyote (413320) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037305)

.. How great it was when you figured out that WordPerfect 5.0 had mouse support? Not that anybody had mice back then... After all, it was the 1980's for cryin' out loud.

Re:Anybody remember.. (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037865)

cept for all those amiga users.

Re:Anybody remember.. (2)

EvlPenguin (168738) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038132)

After all, it was the 1980's for cryin' out loud.

I used Write on my Amiga 2500's Workbench back in the late/mid 1980s. And you know what? It had a mouse! Amigas really were ahead of their time...

Honsetly, though, I don't like using the mouse unless I'm doing some work that explicitly requires it (i.e., Quake II, CAD, etc). I find the keyboard much faster, and with BlackBox (my window manager, very possibly the best) I can access an infinite number of screens and move around with keystrokes. It's just faster when you don't have to take your hands off the keyboard. This is also why I use elvis for text editing; so I can do anything and everything without moving my hands from the "home row" (well, the general area atleast).

faggotz! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037311)

check check, one two

Ones and Zeroes (1)

forged (206127) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037313)

Quoting the text on:

[. ..] people felt they were lucky, lucky I tell you, to have ones and zeros.

Well, read this piece [theonion.com] and think about it for a moment!

Okay it's a bit old.. couldn't resist though :)

Re:Ones and Zeroes (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037351)

How come your friend/foe button is yellow and pops as freak?

Re:Ones and Zeroes (-1)

real_b0fh (557599) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037366)

because he is your freak, DUH

he's my freak too, poor bastard.

Re:Ones and Zeroes (-1)

neal n bob (531011) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037378)

what a coincidence - he is also my freak. I think all good trolls and crapflooders hate his sorry ass.

fag

Back in my days... (1)

Xerion (265191) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037321)

we didn't have the luxury of 0nes AND Zeros, we had ONLY 0nes. Yup, those were the good old days. No bugs like division by Zeros and all array indices start with 0nes!

But eventually we grew tired of having only 0nes, so we tried all we can to discover the mysterious Zero.

We were sooooo excited when we finally realized the way to get Zeros (and lots of them) is to get rid of our NES that's been consuming so much of our time. So we are left with 0!

Ahh, the good old days. Though it sometimes troubles me to see how kids these days forget the pain we went through to bring them the Zeros. All they talk about are Twos...

DO NOT MOD PARENT UP AS FUNNY (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037369)

it's just not. please - i'm begging you. leave this post a 1 or mod it down. thanks.

Mac users should be ashamed... (5, Funny)

codexus (538087) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037328)

even the first mouse had 3 buttons! ;)

huh (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037367)

Hmmm.. what an excelent job the moderators have done - Moderation Totals: Offtopic=1, Total=1. How on earth is a comment about the first mouse having 3 buttons of topic? troll or flame about Mac users - possibly, but off topic????

Re:Mac users should be ashamed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037695)

Yes, somebody should tell Bill G. to stop using Macintosh at his office, because it doesn't 3 buttons...

Re:Mac users should be ashamed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038312)

Your post is really funny -- and also somewhat ironic.

But, seriously, I don't get the Mac 1-button mouse, unless for impaired people use.

Haven't they read about that 5 plus or minus 2 essay?

I find 2- or 3-button moce simpler than 1-button ones.

What a joy is opening a new window with the third button in Linux!

Some thoughtful phrases:

What is the sound of just one hand clapping? (Zen?)

Anything should be made simple, but not simpler that it stops working. (A. Einstein)

The search for total lack of vanity is vain. (Don't know the origin).

* o

I'm not idea nazi. If you have a point, I'd like to hear.

Real (4, Insightful)

ChrisJC (62147) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037330)

And why can't we have these clips in MPEG or something that everybody can see?

Re:Real (2)

Junta (36770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037382)

Because MPEG would be a bandwidth hog compared to Real, and Real *is* accessible by most people. Mac, Win, Linux, Sparc Solaris all have working players, though real.com seems to treat them like their bastard children, hiding them in an unimaginable maze of links to get to the linux versions. I keep a realplay8 and the alpha realone player for linux around, because realone supports XVideo extension, but sometimes it breaks and you need realplayer8...

Re:Real (1)

VoiceOfRaisin (554019) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037463)

you do know that the bitrate of mpeg is variable right? you can have a low bitrate mpeg thats the same size and quality as a real video file.

Re:Real (2)

Junta (36770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037663)

Yes the bitrate of MPEG-1 is variable, and yes you can have the same bitrate, and yes you can have the same quality as real, *but* you can't have both the same quality and MPEG-1 video, MPEG-1 at typical realmedia bitrates is complete and utter crap, MPEG-2 is designed for high bitrates, and MPEG-4 based video codecs might well do as good or better, but availability of those is rather strange right now. Real is the best cross-platform low-bandwidth video choice out there today..

Re:Real (0)

Cerebus (10185) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037596)

Mac, Win, Linux, Sparc Solaris all have working players [...]

Uh, Real.com has no working player for Mac OS X.

HTH, HAND.

Any other pages with videos on computer history? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037407)

I have (an old copy of) RealPlayer for Linux so I was able to watch those videos.

I wonder if there are more websites like these.

It is interesting to find how many things were already thought and available several years before common people actually knew that they existed. (The Internet, Windowing environments, RPC, ...)

If you know of other websites please post them here.

Thanks, TSK (Too lazy to have my own /. account)

Re:Real (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037428)

Um, are you sure you don't confuse Real with Quicktime or Wmedia?

Its Real with all platforms support, not others :-)

Oh about MPEG? Would be nice but if you are unless on an freaking speedy line, you wouldn't have chance to stream it.

Stanford's history in technology (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037332)

HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF

+MONDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+MONDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+TUESDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+TUESDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+WEDNESDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+WEDNESDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+THURSDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+THURSDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+FRIDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+FRIDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+SATURDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: I will not suck any more dick ever again.
+SATURDAY EVENING+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

+SUNDAY MORNING+
Cmdr Taco: Today is the Lord's day.
+SUNDAY AFTERNOON+
Cmdr Taco: *slurp* *slurp* *slurp*

Previous art (-1, Offtopic)

Aceticon (140883) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037354)

Mice have been around for longer than that - i heard they even spread the plague in the middle ages.

Brought to you by: Yet another animal joke

Slashdoters: If you have no sense of humor or believe that moderators have no sense of humor, you can assign a -6 Reason Modifier to all replies moderated as "Funny". Just check your preferences

Re:Previous art (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037372)

i think you'll find that was rats....and it was parasites that lived on the rat that spread the disease

BT Patent (2)

haplo21112 (184264) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037357)

Doesn't this trump the BT patent on Hyperlinks?

It's back.... (-1, Offtopic)

linuxci (3530) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037361)

After some DNS problems goatse.cx [netscape.com] is back ;)

The slashdotting rules for this story (5, Funny)

Spackler (223562) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037363)

If you were not born when this event took place (1968) please step aside and wait until tomorrow to view the site. This way, us older nerds with the short memories can have a chance at it.

Younger folks who actually programmed a PDP-anything also can have a quick look.

Re:The slashdotting rules for this story (1)

CerebusUS (21051) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037371)

heh, I think I was born AS the event was taking place :-)

What type of age? (1)

Aceticon (140883) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037386)

Whould that be:
- Real life age?
- Internet age (equal to 10 times the numbers of years you've used the Internet)
- Slashdot age (slashdot_user_id - max_slashdot_user_id)?

Re:What type of age? (1)

keli (143788) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037399)

... so my slashdot age is negative?

Re:What type of age? (1)

jallen02 (124384) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037976)

It would work better with the larger number first ;)

Slashdot age = Delta(max_slash_id/your_slash_id)

Jeremy

Re:The slashdotting rules for this story (2)

Russ Nelson (33911) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037406)

Hmmm.... I'm not sure that anybody younger than 34 had a chance to program a PDP-anything, except in very rare circumstances where the machine was kept running on life support.
-russ

Re:The slashdotting rules for this story (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037607)

I'm 28, I own a (not-yet-working) PDP-11/34, and I wrote a PDP-8 emulator. Can I go and look?

Re:The slashdotting rules for this story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038480)

Fuck off bitch! I'll look at the goddamn story whenever I fucking want! Whatcha gonna do about it cocksucker?

Did I see a reference to SOAP in there? (2)

matthew.thompson (44814) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037392)

Right close to the end of the page it's mentioned that...
Individuals and groups in the Network can query "Who's got what services?" NLS provides the tools to connect different users to appropriate technology
I think it's amazing that these guys were developing all this back in '68 and it's taken 32 years before the rest of the world catches on.

Completely off topic, perhaps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037394)

And of course, just to make my day even better, they used .ram to encode their video, so I couldn't watch it.

And before you tell me that I can download some worthless extra baggage of a player, I already know that there is one. I always messes up my system so I refuse to install it, and I don't want another player thank you. This is exactly why media formats should be free and why it's a good thing M$ bundles programs etc(just as linux distros do the same). We don't want to pay for watching a free piece of video...

Now ignore me and read someone elses post that probably won't make your day worse like this post has. I am feeling negative and I am letting it out on you.

Re:Completely off topic, perhaps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038047)

I agree on the Real Player stuff - I dont like it because:

Its fat - it takes up lots of memory on my system
It tries to make itself start with my system, and near enough pleads for me not to turn off StartCentre
It deviously tries to get me to sign up for five billion kinds of information alerts when I sign up, just so five million idiots can sell me things.
It's full of ads - i hate ads!
I can't download those movies through our proxy server at work.

Compare and contrast to winamp

lightweight, no ads, beautiful, fast, serves its purpose. Form & Function.

Basiclly i'd have preferred to see those movies in mpg, asf or avi flavours. (yes even asf, at least media player (before the latest version) just does its job and plays movies.

Has BT seen this? (1)

arminh1974 (530747) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037398)

This is great stuff! Someone should enter this into the ongoing BT hyperlink-patent trial if it hasn't already been done. Check it out yourself: http://vodreal.stanford.edu/engel/07engel200.ram [stanford.edu] Looks very much like hyperlinking to me! And that was 1968!
Maybe the bad guys will now lose for a change.

Re:Has BT seen this? (1)

arminh1974 (530747) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037516)

Doh! Ok, I should definitely try to store some of /.'s stories in the longterm memory banks. Anyway, cool film archive still :)

Quick Text-Only Mirror (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037410)

That poor stanford site is getting slashdotted real fast (it took me 2 minutes to load the page after only a couple of comments had been written), so here goes, useless textual description of the videos contents:
THE DEMO


On December 9, 1968, Douglas C. Engelbart and the group of 17 researchers working with him in the Augmentation Research Center at Stanford Research Institute in Menlo Park, CA, presented a 90-minute live public demonstration of the online system, NLS, they had been working on since 1962. The public presentation was a session in the of the Fall Joint Computer Conference held at the Convention Center in San Francisco, and it was attended by about 1,000 computer professionals. This was the public debut of the computer mouse. But the mouse was only one of many innovations demonstrated that day, including hypertext, object addressing and dynamic file linking, as well as shared-screen collaboration involving two persons at different sites communicating over a network with audio and video interface.

The original 90-minute video of this event is part of the Engelbart Collection in Special Collections of Stanford University. This original video has been edited into 35 segments and reformatted as RealVideo streaming video clips. A brief abstract of the subject matter treated in each segment is provided below.

Augmentation credits in computer script. Describes location, technical arrangements, methods of mixing signals, and explains how the video was produced
Doug introduction, "if you had a workstation at your disposal all day that was perfectly responsible....or responsive." Doug gives general description of what will happen. The goal of the demo is show the elements of the program live rather than explain what it does.

Word processing beginning with "blank piece of paper," text entry, Illustrates cut, copy, file creation including header with name, date, creator. Doug is shown using keyboard, mouse, and chord keyset.

Formatting, hierarchical view control. Doug illustrates the many different levels and views a file can be given.

Example using a file with lists, graphics. Doug show how it is possible to rearrange the items by categories and by invoking hierarchical view control for displaying contents of different levels.

Continuation of examples of view control.

Doug demonstrates capability of NLS to jump between levels in the architecture of a text, making cross references, creating Internal linking and live hyperlinks within a file. Links can be made visible or invisible.

Doug demonstrates working with a graphic file tagged with hyperlinked items. Clicking on a link in the graphic, Doug jumps to separate items, such as texts, linked to the graphic.

Introduction to next part of the program, shifting from illustrative material to the inner workings of the system that enable a knowledge worker to have this system at his or her disposal all day long.

Doug demonstrates creation of "chains of views," linked to one another. Doug illustrates creation of links and "jumping on a link." Doug Illustrates goals of project, supporting agencies and number of people involved since the beginning. Doug describes the goal of creating a "system oriented discipline": Bootstrapping as an evolutionary strategy for developing and improving the tools by using the system as the basis of the Augment Research Center's daily work practice.

Doug describes the goals of NLS (online system). NLS is an instrument for helping humans operate within the domain of complex information structures. By "operate" Doug means compose, study and modify. By "complex information structures" Doug says that content represents concepts, but there is also a relation between the content of concepts, their structure, and the structure of other domains of human thought that is too complex to investigate in linear text. The computer is a tool for navigating through those structures and examining them in ways that would be too complex otherwise.

This segment discusses control devices, the keyboard and mouse. "I don't know why we call it a mouse. It started that way and we never changed it." The operation principles of the mouse are explained with Bill Paxton being video patched in from SRI in Menlo Park. Doug discusses the tracking spot on the screen and relation between mouse movements and attention focused on the tracking spot.

Chord Key Set provides a five-finger equivalent of what can be done with the keyboard. Combinations of keystrokes can launch different operations.

This segment provides an overview of the controller system for I/O. buses, and the timeshare software system on the 940.

This segment discusses display systems. Doug switches to Menlo Park where the image of the CRT that is generating the text view on the console image that is being viewed by the audience on the auditorium screen.

Discusses refresh rates and lag times with sweeps of 15 cycles per second, persistent memory in CRT. Slight smearing of "bug" (cursor) for text, but still useful for multiple users sharing screens.

In this segment Doug brings in Jeff Rulifson working at his console in Menlo Park to discuss software design of NLS. Special languages that have enabled the construction of commands, functions. Jeff shows a graphic with links to files explaining parts of the program. He also jumps to a place where programmers leave messages for one another. As an example Rulifson shows documentation and explanation for "move word" and word delimiter commands and the code that executes it. Another programming language described is MOL (machine oriented language).

In this segment Rulifson discusses compiler. Rulifson references SDC people for assistance in constructing languages that enable them to easily reconfigure compilers.

Rulifson shows how statements are tagged with annotations made by individuals. Search patterns tracing the annotations and links constructed by individuals can be created. (This topic is also discussed in more detail later).

Doug and Jeff discuss hierarchical control and use of control meta languages.

In this segment, Doug explains how the group uses the NLS system. As an example he shows the use of the online documentation in the NLS manual for the system to find definitions, such as What's a bug? What's a mouse?

In this segment Doug illustrates how NLS can be used to construct, collaboratively modify, and ultimately publish reports and papers. He shows how to examine and modify the paper he and his colleagues wrote for this conference, sets formatting for printing, hypertext linking and viewing of document.

Doug explains joint usage and modification of a file by a group. Also in this segment is a discussion of messaging techniques for working collaboratively on a file. A content analyzer is described which can be used to retrieve messages composed by a specific individual, between two individuals, or further specified by specific content strings.

Doug explains construction of "markers" which can be compiled. These enable pattern matching for strings of text and dynamic macro searches.

In this segment Doug shifts to two- person collaboration. Doug initiates a "collaborative mode" in which he shares the same text-display with Bill Paxton in Menlo Park and at the same time a live audio-video window inset with Bill Paxton in Menlo Park.

Bill Paxton explains Information retrieval via indirect construction of a catalog. The segment illustrates flexible formatting and line drawing. Paxton draws a picture to explain keyword searching. The segment represents a good example of using the system to work out a course of action collaboratively.

Bill Paxton demonstrates set up and use of keyword searching. A humorous moment occurs when Bill Paxton thinks the signal has gone down.

Bill Paxton Illustrates multiple weighted keyword searching using the System Programmer's guide as example.

In this segment Bill demonstrates keyword searching and weighting. He goes on to illustrate jumping from the ordered list generated by the keyword search to retrieve the full-content document linked to the keyword. Doug concludes the segment with a recap and summary of the power of keyword weighting, hyperlinking, and full-content retrieval enabled by the system.

In this segment Doug distinguishes between the Service System and the User System. The ARC team distinguishes overall man-computer system into a dichotomy between two systems, the service system and user system.The Service System is what appears at the terminal, the organization of software and hardware the system gives to me, the set of tools and capabilities available when I click on the screen. The user system is what is beyond that. Given these tools, how do we use the links, what are the conventions for leaving messages? How do we use the NLS capabilities to do work? The procedures, skills, methods, procedures, skills, and specific concepts people use are all developed in coordination with the kind of tools they have available.

Doug describes a project within the Augmentation Research Center to study and develop their own system of management tools to organize and manage the work of the 17 people in the group.

In this segment Doug outlines the participation of ARC in the planned ARPA computer network to be established within the next year (1969), in which 20 different computer sites across the country will be connected in a network. Doug muses that with the planned band width of 20KB per second and delay times with less than one-tenth of a second, he might be able to show the present demo again next year from Boston.

In this segment Doug explains how NLS will be used as the infrastructure for ARPA networks experiment in creating the Network Information Center. Individuals and groups in the Network can query "Who's got what services?" NLS provides the tools to connect different users to appropriate technology. This is an example of enhancing group productivity and augmenting human intellect.

After all this what's the product we're providing in this research? It is a sample augmentation system that is provided to augment computer system development. In addition the aim is to provide tools for generating further, improved augmentation systems--bootstrapping.

Credits of the individuals, agencies and institutions who have provided funding and support for the project. These include the ARC team, Bill English, Ed van de Viet, Martin Hardy, Roger Bates, John Farbodough, Dave Evans, Don Andrews, Jeff Rulifson, Bill Paxton and support from SRI staff, Steward Brand, Air Force, ARPA. Doug also thanks Herman Miller Research Company part of Herman Miller furniture company for creating office environments, desks, and the operating and display consoles.

Re:Quick Text-Only Mirror (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037422)

Is anyone getting more than a little annoyed at this "text version in case site is slashdotted" bullshit?

How long is it before sites start suing Slashdot for every story because you faggots have no respect for copyright law?

The New Four Yorkshiremen (2)

marnanel (98063) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037431)

people felt they were lucky, lucky I tell you, to have ones and zeros.

Cue the ucam.chat New Four Yorkshiremen sketch [ucam.org] . Binary? We used to dream o' binary!

proprietary video formats in education (0)

vapurtrail (411277) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037448)

I just can't understand why universities continue to use the Real media format for streaming. Shouldn't they (universities) be embracing more open ended necessarily open source, though that would be even better) streaming technologies? It really bothers me that Stanford wants me to install Real's really crappy player.

Re:proprietary video formats in education (2, Insightful)

PoiBoy (525770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037662)

What really bothers me are people like you who embrace open source code like it's as precious as the Holy Virgin Mary.

Real is a perfectly fine format to use to distribute this type of stuff. RealPlayer is available for Win, Mac, Linux, Solaris, etc. It's not like it costs you money or is not available for most computers.

Pull the fucking stick out of your ass and realize that not everything has to be open source. There are countless perfectly acceptable closed-source programs, and RealPlayer is among them.

The reason to hate Microsoft is not because they are a monopolist but because they are a monopolist which has been found guilty of breaking the law on multiple occassions and has refused to reform their behavior.

Go ahead, mod me down to -1, Troll. I've been at the karma cap for so fucking long that I'm willing to burn it back down to zero JUST SO I CAN TELL THESE OPEN-SOURCE ZEALOTS TO GO TO HELL AND GET INTO THE REAL WORLD!

Re:proprietary video formats in education (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037898)

Whoa there...

Not everyone is of the OPEN SOURCE OR DIE mindset. I happen to dislike the various real* media formats simply because I dislike the real* software. I don't like how it works. I don't like its reliability problems. I don't like that it spies on me (this was true a while back, not sure if the software still does this). I don't like having to upgrade every few months because suddenly my player is obsolete. In short, I don't use the Real software. Converting these to one of the more widely supported formats will allow me to play them with non-Real software.

So please, give your blood pressure a break.

Re:proprietary video formats in education (0)

vapurtrail (411277) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037905)

Actually the point was that UNIVERSITIES should not be using software that they have to pay for. Real's streaming software is not free. Beyond that the Real format will only work with the Real player. Universities should use non-proprietary formats that allow users to choose which player to use.

All that aside, I'm not a huge proponent of open-source software. I think the idea is great, but not quite ready for the US business model.

Re:proprietary video formats in education (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038325)

Realplayer sucks and you know it. Boycott Realplayer! http://www.hawk606.f2s.com/burp.htm [f2s.com]

Re:proprietary video formats in education (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038341)

while I agree with your "get into the real world" statement on some levels... why does every thread have to turn into this argument... why don't people (not you, the guy who posted about real and hating micro$haft) STAY ON TOPIC... yeeesh, you jealous bastard... just cause he has more money than you will ever see in many generations... as IF NOBODY EVER BREAKS THE LAW TO GET AHEAD... how about your lamo gov't, huh? Gosh, I need to take my own advice,

pez

Re:proprietary video formats in education (2)

ConceptJunkie (24823) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038592)

I don't have a problem with Real as long as I can download the videos over the fat pipe at work and view them at home. I don't think my boss would appreciate me spending 90 minutes watching these things and I don't think my kids would appreciate me staying at work past their bedtimes...

Unfortunately, people who use Real often only offer their content as streaming.

In my day.. (-1, Offtopic)

fadeaway (531137) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037453)

In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a bottle o' bawls.
A bottle o' WARM bawls.
Without the bottle.
OR the bawls!
In a filthy, cracked cup.
We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
Aye. BECAUSE we were poor.

Someone should remind the PTO to look at these... (1)

Sebby (238625) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037490)

before they process more patent requests.

Wither the BT Patent Claim (4, Insightful)

Beautyon (214567) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037503)

"Doug demonstrates working with a graphic file tagged with hyperlinked items. Clicking on a link in the graphic, Doug jumps to separate items, such as texts, linked to the graphic."

We call this Prior Art.

Mouse is on display at The Tech (4, Informative)

ascii (70907) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037534)

I do believe the original prototype is still on display at The Tech Museum of Innovation, San Jose, CA.

It's encased in a transparent plastic box and you can actually pick it up and study it at close. I was lucky enough to get a couple of snapshots of it.

Get a glimpse here [thetech.org] .

So Xerox stole thier ideas from these guys??? (3, Funny)

JohnDenver (246743) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037589)

* Microsoft rips off Apple
* Apple rips off Xerox
* Xerox rips off Stanford's Augmentation Research Center

Who did Stanford's Augmentation Research Center rip off?

Re:So Xerox stole thier ideas from these guys??? (2, Informative)

Dun Malg (230075) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037873)

Who did Stanford's Augmentation Research Center rip off?
If you were paying attention, you would know that these guys invented the mouse pointing device. Xerox PARC came up with the ball-driven mouse and was the first place the mouse really moved from a mere crufted-together tech-demo to a seriously usuable tool.

Re:So Xerox stole thier ideas from these guys??? (2)

JohnDenver (246743) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038291)

I was paying attention, and I understood well enough that they invented the mouse.

The question is somewhat legitimate: Who inspired them? Science fiction? Was there a XY pointing device prior to the mouse? (I can envision some clunky ideas) Who inspired them?

Re:So Xerox stole thier ideas from these guys??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038369)

>> Who did Stanford's Augmentation Research Center rip off?

The Wright brothers.

Wilbur even commented: -"Now *this* is erratic!"

:-)

DEC hockey puck mouse memories (3, Interesting)

acomj (20611) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037592)

I remember that particular mouse. It was like a big hockey puck, but without a ball. It had two feet that would spin when you moved the mouse. Depending on how both feet spun (together for left and right (cw/ccw for forward and back) it moved the curser (sic). It worked suprisingly well.

I like the new optical mice better though, especially since the "puck" mouse was awkward fit in the hand...

That stanford mouse is too old school

Re:DEC hockey puck mouse memories (1)

gjbivin (204168) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038437)

The University of Utah had an early mouse and graphical display system in '68 or '69 with the same kind of technology (although I remember the mouse being a bit smaller than the one in the video). Still not very ergonomic, though.

Like modern ball mice, it had two digitizers, but instead of a ball, there were two metal wheels that stuck out of the bottom at right angles. Moving left/right would roll one wheel while the other one, being at right angles, would just drag sideways across the desktop. Likewise, moving up/down would roll the other wheel while the first one dragged. Other directions would roll/slide both wheels proportionately. I can't remember how many buttons were on it.

It certainly impressed us at the time. Of course, I now also use an optical mouse which would have been unbelievable back in '68.

Has anyone got this as one big file? (1)

mindslip (16677) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037593)

Has anyone got this as one big file?

I'd LOVE to put this on Video CD and show it to a bunch of people...

mindslip

Re:Has anyone got this as one big file? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037743)

Same here. There has to be a large single file out there somewhere. This deserves to be on vcd!

Contacting the ISPs? (-1, Offtopic)

AshsZ (555360) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037599)

Come on! Proabbly none of them speak English!

Not what was taught (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037605)

But, I thought that Microsoft invented the Internet. At least that's what they say

Back in MY day... (2, Funny)

pizen (178182) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037609)

people felt they were lucky, lucky I tell you, to have ones and zeros.

Oh yeah? We had to use the letter 'O'. And when RAM was being developed the only way we could store anything was by building up static electricity and using our fingers. And then sometimes we didn't even have socks. Other times we didn't have carpet. Any we liked it that way.

Re:Back in MY day... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038161)

YOU had SOCKS?! Bloody luxury...

Re:Back in MY day... (1)

jkeegan (35099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038342)

Yeah, and there were no neutrons, only electrons and protons.. and you had to spin the electrons by hand to get keep them going, blah blah blah..

:)

IMO This blows BTs patent claim out of the water (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3037651)

How can you not see the incredibale similarities to web browing. I found the video vey entertaining

Mouse Videos (1)

JonWan (456212) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037824)

These guys are going to get so sued by Disney, Don't they know that Disney owns "The Mouse"! :-)

Formatting issues. (1)

Pentomino (129125) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037892)

I agree that formatting these videos in RealVideo was a regrettable choice.

I also wish it weren't encoded at such a high bitrate. You 56k users will have a hard time looking at these, if these are in the same format as when they were first slashdotted; at times, even my cablemodem couldn't keep up. In fact, since it is a monochrome recording, isn't there a monochrome codec that could be used to archive this video with the same quality but without the bandwidth overkill?

Ahhhhh the good old days... (2, Interesting)

MrIcee (550834) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037895)

The rush of returning memories... the days when SHUFFLE THE DECK meant more than playing a hand of cribbage... when DEBUGGING meant, not only listening to the program run on AM radio - it meant opening the cabinets and physically removing beetles and moths... when even opening the cabinet was dangerous because they weighed over a ton a piece... and if you opened the front door without opening the back door, it would tip over on you.

Yes... we loved our ones and zeros (not to mention BAUDOT too!)... and we loved the front panel lights where we could actually watch binary flowing through the registers... and who could forget the fantastic rocker switches on the front where you could REALLY man-handle your software.

Yes... the good old days where finding a bug in your program meant that the computer operator simply threw a 2 inch thick printout at you with a scrawled note at the top... YOU HAVE A BUG. And who could forget the chad wars while waiting for a program to compile!

But the thing we ESPECIALLY liked is the fact that there was no Microsoft.... computers were pure and we didn't need 2 gigahertz pentiums in order to take 3 minutes to boot a stupid OS.

The good old days... when computers were computers and programmers actually knew how to program!

Thanks for posting this story again. (1)

slurry47 (27097) | more than 12 years ago | (#3037921)

Seriously, this is a story worth re-posting every two to three years.

There's always Net newbies coming here and bookmarks that need updating.

Most interesting to me this time are the metaphors Doug does[n't] use -- language shapes the world ya know.

Comments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038008)

Doug Engelbart's comments on the '68 demo, recorded in 2000.

http://www.liquid.org/glossary/68_demo.html

noise (1)

brer_rabbit (195413) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038171)

why does the screen make funny noises whenever the display changes? I wish mine did that.

REPOST! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038192)

This time I have PROOF! [slashdot.org]

Sound Effects (1)

segfaultdot (462810) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038236)

I love the little sounds that Engelbart's system made, as a function and work indicator. Not very practical, but cool nonetheless. I wish photoshop would do something like that whenever i apply a gaussian blur on a 40MB file. :)

repost? (1)

essdodson (466448) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038265)

Wasn't this posted before? Same content different site, just not cut up into short videos?

too bad... (1)

jglow (525234) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038324)

I refuse to install Real. Shame..

More proof that life is a circle... (1)

bittmann (118697) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038566)

All right...Let's see...It's 1968. What cool features do we want on our new computer?
  • Broadband network connection
  • Multitasking operating environment
  • Clickable/graphical user interface, with sound cues linked to events
  • Multi-head display
  • "Video Out" for use for large, low-scan-rate displays
  • Support for a programmamble "left-hand controller" for executing frequently-used commands
  • Effortless video conferencing
  • Built-in support for cutting-edge mouse design
  • "A browser that *is* part of the operating system


OK, it's now 1998. What cool features do we want on our new computer?...ummm...

Disclaimer: I'm one of the "crusty old pharts" you read about...still make a living programming in, among other languages, COBOL. Last year, I burned a copy of this presentation on a CD, and now use it frequently to educate any "pimply-faced youth" that for whatever reason seem to believe that Microsoft *invented* computing. Try it sometime...

The moral of this story: It ain't innovation if you're copying what has already been done!

Of mice and men (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038583)

Haha, couldn't resist this one!

Mice are very useful, cheap, simple and work well. My ideal kind of hardware.

After some time, though, I get "tired". E.g.:

When you point at an icon, you really point at an area on the table. Mapping (x,y) movements to (x,z) ones is unnatural.

Translating (x,y) to rotation (as in Quake, Descent) is a little better, but not ideal.

========
== =====

Coindently just today I searched for hard-mods using mice (US $3 to #4 here).

A trackball would be great ($30, out of question here); maybe I try to cross a joystick and a mouse...

Ah, another neat idea: using DDR mats to control the cursor. Net result: hands always on keyboard.

Re:Of mice and men (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038671)

From Slashdot, on my first trial:

Lameness filter encountered.
Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less
whitespace and/or less repetition.
Comment aborted.

Also:

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.

Thanks for giving feedback and not just rejecting the comment. Now...

a) Since when whitespace is bad? I use one line between paragraphs!

b) I'm not a native English speaker, of course I must be repetitive. Should I buy a Thesaurus? Puh-leaze!

c) The junk characters were just one line of hyphens I used as separator. Please, use bzip2 over there!

Anyway, it's a good idea if it get us rid of the trolls -- *just* the trolls!

Now that Kathleen rules /. life is so much more difficult! 8^D

First mouse, but not first pointing device (4, Informative)

Animats (122034) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038612)

The first pointing device for computer input was the "light gun" developed for the SAGE air defense system, in the 1950s. The trackball and the RAND tablet both predated the mouse.

Predating all of these was the sliding crank used as a target designator in the Nike missile system. This was a 2 degree of freedom crank; you could turn the crank, or slide the handle radially. This device is not well known, but can be seen at the restored launch site [nikemissile.org] in Marin County, CA. The guidance computer for the Nike was an analog system, not a digital computer, though.

Chord Keyset? (1)

deadgoon42 (309575) | more than 12 years ago | (#3038613)

What exactly is a chord keyset? To me it looked as if the gentleman was using it to issue commands. I wish that something similar had been introduced into the PC. I know that I find it hard to remember keyboard shortcuts. Having a separate tool for this that had 5 or 6 keys would make a great addition the the PC platform and would make it easier for me to remember which buttons to push. Or maybe I'm just crazy.

think-geek need this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3038632)

LOL imagin if TG carryied this one!!! thatd be awesome cuz then we could all see the history of the Mouse.
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