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What About IPv6? How Long Until Widespread Deployment?

Cliff posted more than 12 years ago | from the don't-hold-your-breath dept.

The Internet 407

Christopher Blood asks: "Over at the register, they talk about the EU adopting IPv6. So what about the USA? When do we get it? IPv6 would solve some and DOS problems and we will need the extra address space. What's the holdup?" While IPv6 may be the cure for all of our IPv4 ills, upgrading the whole internet to the new technology isn't going to happen over night. What has been done to prepare for the jump, and what still needs to happen before it can become a reality?

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You know... (-1, Troll)

kcin (34043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087180)

First fucking post niggahs.

Widespread Deployment (-1)

Original AIDS Monkey (315494) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087232)

GOAT!

Re:You know... (1)

ewomack (225766) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087243)

And look what you do with it.

Well, it's here already (4, Informative)

Moridineas (213502) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087181)

At my university [duke.edu] , IPv6 has been deployed since last year, maybe longer. I've been running FreeBSD w/ IPV6 for at least that long. Honestly, it hasn't made that big a difference for me :)

Re:Well, it's here already (1, Insightful)

jackb_guppy (204733) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087460)

Why?

Why should univerisities and large corporations HOG IP space? There is no need to update millions of machines for because of a few corportions are remoted from the address large blocks.

FREE THE IP!! FREE THE IP!! They belong to people. Storm the high castles and take back what belongs to the people!!

Really though -- who needs IPv6? Get the corporations to use NAT - What corportation needs a A-Class? (beside an ISP/Backbone). I know of a corporation that has a A-Class - all machines besides servers are DHCP assigned anyway. They could convert tomorrow and free the IPs. So way hog them?

I have not seen one benifit for IPv6. I do not say IP for my toaster. There is not a single benfit for the cost or hasle of the millions of machines that need to changed.

Lastly, there is not even a clean routing assignment plan for IPv6. So Dukes use of IPv6 would now have to grandfathered in wasting everyone times and money. With that many IPs, why not assign the first Hex^2 to a country, one to the porn world, one to the sport world. that way filtering would be very simple.

What would be better time and money?

Required all machines to use DHCP/DNS - no more hard ips, period. Your router to the internet would get its IP from its upstream provider, and would supply the DHCP for all machines below it.
Lastly it would have a send up the DNS enteries for any routes to servers behind it. This way only one IP is need at each junction and all could be from private pools. In the end more IPs freed.

fP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087186)

?!? whoop!

damn (-1, Offtopic)

blowg0ats (537748) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087189)

so close to fp! next time i guess.

Backbone (3, Interesting)

crumbz (41803) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087192)

Given that Lucent's CEO said today that he does not see the telecom equipment market turning around anytime soon, a government initiative to upgrade the core routers to IPv6 would help boost the battered sector of the economy. Granted, Lucent shot themselves in the foot last year (several times) and upgrade to IPv6 might just result in a higher volume of spam.....

Re:Backbone (1)

filtrs (548248) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087315)

Maybe someone can inform me, because I obviously don't know ...

Why would companies like Lucent and Cisco be so opposed to this? With purchases of new hardware shrinking along with the economy, wouldn't these equipment makers be in a perfect position to benefit from adaptation of IPv6? Its supposed to be all about the money ...

I can understand ISPs and other internet-intensive companies not wanting to pay for the upgrade, but I'd still expect a push from the hardware makers.

In two words: unsold inventory (4, Interesting)

mangu (126918) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087423)

With purchases of new hardware shrinking along with the economy, wouldn't these equipment makers be in a perfect position to benefit from adaptation of IPv6?

The problem is that shrinking sales has caused a huge amount of hardware to be stockpiled at Cisco warehouses. IIRC, last year they had over 5 Giga$ worth of accumulated unsold hardware. They need technology to stand still for a while, so they can sell part of that obsolete inventory.

Re:In two words: unsold inventory (1)

filtrs (548248) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087433)

Thank you, sir! I knew there had to be a logical explaination and it had to have something to do with $$.

Re:Backbone (1)

Troed (102527) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087518)

3G (next gen telecom) are using IPv6

I DO IT WRONG!!!! (-1)

RoboTroll (560160) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087193)

I do it wrong

Laying here in the shadows of my room, I squint up at my love. My Ms. Portman. I am sore and tired after fucking her for eight solid hours. My chapped and aching dick is soaking in grits to relieve the pain. She gets on her knees and starts lapping the grits up out of the bowl. She places her beautiful hands on my penis and starts to lick the grits off my achy piece.
Massaging my nutsack she....

WAIT, I DO IT WRONG!!!!

Yanking my dick out of her mouth I throw her to the ground and shove it in to her gaping freshly fisted ass. [goatse.cx]

"OH BIG ASS SPORK!! Fuck my ass, fuck my ass good. DEEPER, my stallion, deeper!! Make a Beowulf cluster of sperm on my back!!"

"Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this baby!"

I DO IT WRONG!!!!

I continue to hump her alabaster form. Glistening with beads of sweat, she bites her lip in delight as I tear her ass open with my engorged dick.

"Queen Amidala!!" I shreik as I near climax.

She looks up at me and screams, "You are so alive in me, unlike *BSD or VA Software!!! Fill me with seed!! Yes, Yes, Yess!!!!"

"For me you are calling, hhhmmm?"

"YODA?!? What the fuck, can't you see I am using the force here?"

He savagely kicks my Natalie aside, he pulls out his large green penis and impales me...

I DO IT WRONG!!

All your sporkz are belong to the dead homiez!!

From the annals of the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

Re:I DO IT WRONG!!!! (-1)

senior_troll (553809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087257)

This Troll is protected under the TPL TROLL PUBLIC LICENSE. Please read at the end of this troll for conditions.

Aria Giovanni001 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni002 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni003 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni004 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni005 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni006 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni007 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni008 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni009 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni010 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni011 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni012 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni013 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni014 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni015 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni016 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni017 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni018 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni019 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni020 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni021 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni022 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni023 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni024 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni025 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni026 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni027 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni028 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni029 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni030 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni031 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni032 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni033 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni034 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni035 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni036 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni037 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni038 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni039 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni040 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni041 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni042 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni043 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni044 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni045 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni046 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni047 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni048 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni049 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni050 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni051 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni052 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni053 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni054 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni055 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni056 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni057 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni058 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni059 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni060 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni061 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni062 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni063 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni064 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni065 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni066 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni067 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni068 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni069 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni070 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni071 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni072 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni073 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni074 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni075 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni076 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni077 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni078 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni079 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni080 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni081 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni082 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni083 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni084 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni085 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni086 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni087 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni088 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni089 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni090 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni091 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni092 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni093 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni094 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni095 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni096 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni097 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni098 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni099 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni100 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni101 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni102 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni103 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni104 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni105 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni106 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni107 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni108 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni109 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni110 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni111 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni112 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni113 [supereva.it]

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I ***-***H*A*T*E***-*** navel jewelry!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087495)

Fuck you assporkhole! I started downloading each and every one of those pictures, until I saw that ridiculous piercing. What the fuck if those bitches are masochist, there's no need to pierce their bodies, I can spank them till their asses bleed!

Newbie question.. (2, Informative)

zapfie (560589) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087195)

Is IPv6 backwards compatible with IPv4?

Re:Newbie question.. (2, Insightful)

ColdGrits (204506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087213)

Yup.

As in IPv4 addresses are just a subset of IPv6, so any IPv4-based stuff will still work in an IPv6 network no problem.

Not true the other way round, but then that doesn't matter :)

So yes, they could upgrade the entire Internet backbones etc to IPv6 (and *should* do so asap) and all old IPv4 traffic will carry on as normal.

Re:Newbie question.. (2)

Codifex Maximus (639) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087282)

There is alot of code based on IPv4 functions - upgrading all the programs to use IPv6 would be a mammoth task... hey, maybe there will be some jobs opening up in Socket Programming soon?

Re:Newbie question.. (2)

MenTaLguY (5483) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087322)

For _most_ network-aware applications, the only thing different is the address format. Once you have the connected socket, the rest of the network code should remain unchanged.

It's the (non-socket-related) code to handle e.g. address parsing which has to change.

Re:Newbie question.. (4, Funny)

Codifex Maximus (639) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087361)

> For _most_ network-aware applications, the only
> thing different is the address format. Once you
> have the connected socket, the rest of the network
> code should remain unchanged.

So, essentially what you're saying is: After you get past all the things that are different then the rest is the same?

Ok, I'll buy that.

Re:Newbie question.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087497)

It is not the entire answer, but for old code you simply have to able to accept the IPv6 format. But IPv6 is also capable of doing some interesting things that you may wish to take advantage of. That will, of course, require a re-write of at least the set-up if not a re-design.

Re:Newbie question.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087314)

Challenge (obviously), is that you can't start using any of the additional IPv6 address space until IPv4 is mostly eliminated (unless you don't mind a huge chunk of the internet being inacessible...)

Re:Newbie question.. (-1, Offtopic)

zapfie (560589) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087272)

Why is this a troll?

Re:Newbie question.. (1)

sheetsda (230887) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087328)

Someones trying to lose moderator privledges I guess. I noticed this [slashdot.org] dumb FP comment got modded up as informative. Metamod will take care of it.

Re:Newbie question.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087395)

and what ever happened to the ipv6 mac address privacy fiasco? never hear anything about that anymore. what happened.

f1rst p0st! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087197)

wooohoooo!

raul

When? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087203)

I guess not in close future. When free IPV4 addresses run out, large address blocks reserved to big companies etc become very valuable. So, if you want addresses which work 100% of the time, you'll have to cough up money for the companies to get them. It will be that simple. Really.

Re:When? (4, Insightful)

furiousgeorge (30912) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087273)

true. but if you're not located next door to said company, the main trunk routing tables become ridiculous.

Remember --- M.I.T. has more assigned IP addresses than ALL OF CHINA.

It's not north america thats going to drive IPv6, it's Europe and Asia where they're already starting to feel the address squeeze.

Re:When? (2)

boopus (100890) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087347)

Is that still true? Last I read they gave a large portion of their address space back.... For all I know they could have kept a coupple million though.

Re:When? (1)

HaggiZ (68526) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087348)

Yeah,

Here in Australia we are feeling the squeeze a bit. But it's workable, just means lots of NATing all over the place which then causes lots of problems with administrators that only know how to administer a firewall with a GUI ;)

Re:When? (1)

_Spirit (23983) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087496)

If it has a UI that's anything like your webpage that might be understandable as well as excusable :-)

Re:When? (1)

thogard (43403) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087507)

The address space is running out because it is mismanaged.

The reason its mismanaged is a number of routers aren't doing their jobs correctly and the result of broken hardware design is that the minium allocations are huge.

I think that all new address space should be assigned to two ISPs at a time based on places where they regionaly overlap. This would allow me to go to sprint if they were my provider and get a /26 that is common to both them and someone say uunet in my region so they both can deal with the route as a /24 or so internally but one of them gets to aggregate it in a larger block and one of them won't.

This would allow millions of small compaines to proplery dual home. The current system won't let you do that unless you need a /20

As far as the load/memory on the servers is concerned, there are 16 million /24 blocks under thsi approach. If your router has 3 upstream interfaces and an internal network, that requires 2*2^24 bits or 4 meg of ram. Do it with contenta addressable ram (like cache tag ram) and you can run the biggest exchange point routers at speeds faster than the current approaches.

Why are the membership dues for the Asia Pascific Nic (APNic) in US$? The US$ has risen compared to every currency in the region so prices keep going up and up and up. The same is true for most of Europe as well.

What about the major backbone routers? (4, Interesting)

kronin (413035) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087204)

I would like to know how close the backbone through the US is to being IPv6 ready. Anyone that knows care to respond?

Bob Hope dead at 99 (-1)

Ivy League Troll (561455) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087215)

I still feel that IPv6 is a long way from being deployed as THE standard. IPv4 is still working perfectly fine and there really isn't a dearth of IP addresses. Perhaps as Internet phones and other devices become more popular, we'll run out of IP addresses with just the four block space (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx). But for now, I think we're OK.

roadrunner (2, Interesting)

Maditude (473526) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087220)

I emailed RR a while back about their plans for IPv6, and despite several back-and-forth email exchanges, never did find anyone who had even HEARD of IPv6, much less get details on their rollout plans for it. Doesn't look too promising for cable-modem users.

Re:roadrunner (2)

LWolenczak (10527) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087467)

They RECENTLY got an ipv6 allocation from ARIN.

LINUX SUCKS YOU JEWS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087221)

homos linux sucks use a real os like bsd you jews

Re:LINUX SUCKS YOU JEWS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087301)

AaaaaAAhhhH!!!!!!!!!! My PENIS ShOrE HeRrTzZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ipv6 already all used up... (-1, Troll)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087223)

Microsoft has already purchased 98% of the future address space. But you can have 192.168.0.4.

Re:Ipv6 already all used up... (1)

Indras (515472) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087369)

But you can have 192.168.0.4

And 127.0.0.1 :o)

Re:Ipv6 already all used up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087381)

&& 0.0.0.0

;)

Re:Ipv6 already all used up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087400)

But I'm already using 192.168.0.4 ;-)

I'm gonna stake out one of those big 10. class A's and use it all over my network.

for you freebsd types (0, Informative)

SweetAndSourJesus (555410) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087225)

good article here [onlamp.com] . not a goatse link. really.

WARNING!!! **GOATSE** LINK ABOVE!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087401)

Don't go in. It's disgusting! It redirects your to the god-awful http://goatse.cx. See for yourself [goatse.cx] ! Or better yet, take my word of advice and be nimble to the back button on your www browser!

When do we get it? (4, Insightful)

nublord (88026) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087227)

When do we get it?

When corporate America determines they can make a profit from it.

When Cisco decides to... (4, Insightful)

sphealey (2855) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087228)

There are two factors holding IPV6 back: lack of concensus from those that make the decisions in the networking world that IPV6 solves any problems that need to be solved at anything like a reasonable cost. And lack of push from Cisco for implementation. There are thousands of other facets to the discussion, but let's face it: if Cisco had said a year ago that "oh, IOS 12.x now supports IPV6 and we think you should start using it" the world would have fallen in line. They haven't, which makes you wonder what they know that we don't. The story is that "customers aren't demanding it yet", but that didn't stop them from introducing the router when no one was demanding them, did it?

sPh

Re:When Cisco decides to... (2, Informative)

univgeek (442857) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087339)

Cisco road map [cisco.com] (pdf) for implementation of IPv6 in IOS.

The same in html [google.com] from Google.

They say that by/in 2002 (hey thats now) they will have completed implementation of all IPv6 functions in the routers.

Re:When Cisco decides to... (1)

sean23007 (143364) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087366)

The story is that "customers aren't demanding it yet", but that didn't stop them from introducing the router when no one was demanding them, did it?

Once someone does what the customers don't demand, and they succeed, they are much less likely to try again, lest they fail. If Cisco were to adopt IPv6 completely, and it didn't catch, Cisco would be out. They obviously don't want that to happen, so they want to be absolutely sure that it will catch on.

Microsoft to decide (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087229)

For real development we have to wait for established companies to roll out .NET platform.
So do speak Microsoft has the last voice. When they say go, we go.

Aria Giovanni Cock Lengthening Troll plus TPL (-1)

senior_troll (553809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087231)

This Troll is protected under the TPL TROLL PUBLIC LICENSE. Please read at the end of this troll for conditions.

Aria Giovanni001 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni002 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni003 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni004 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni005 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni006 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni007 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni008 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni009 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni010 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni011 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni012 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni013 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni014 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni015 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni016 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni017 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni018 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni019 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni020 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni021 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni022 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni023 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni024 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni025 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni026 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni027 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni028 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni029 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni030 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni031 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni032 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni033 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni034 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni035 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni036 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni037 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni038 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni039 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni040 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni041 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni042 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni043 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni044 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni045 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni046 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni047 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni048 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni049 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni050 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni051 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni052 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni053 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni054 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni055 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni056 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni057 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni058 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni059 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni060 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni061 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni062 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni063 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni064 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni065 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni066 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni067 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni068 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni069 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni070 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni071 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni072 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni073 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni074 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni075 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni076 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni077 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni078 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni079 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni080 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni081 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni082 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni083 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni084 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni085 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni086 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni087 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni088 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni089 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni090 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni091 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni092 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni093 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni094 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni095 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni096 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni097 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni098 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni099 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni100 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni101 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni102 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni103 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni104 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni105 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni106 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni107 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni108 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni109 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni110 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni111 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni112 [supereva.it] Aria Giovanni113 [supereva.it]

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Information society (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087234)

I think this link [zyvex.com] says it all.

eqewr qerq ere rwt
rw r

qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqwer
dddddddadfw aefa

wewer qree rqwer
.adsfser erdae.

rwet

qqwerewr qre r qr rerwer
..

dfsaa rwqqer eer qewf

ewrtqterte
sdfg

retretqqqq
qwerrrrrrrrrrrrrewrq

retw
..

awqeewwwwwwwf asdf qer

WARNING!!! **GOATSE** LINK ABOVE!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087426)

Don't go in. It's disgusting! It redirects your to the god-awful http://goatse.cx. See for yourself [goatse.cx] ! Or better yet, take my word of advice and be nimble to the back button on your www browser!

it might (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087235)

it might be a while...that is always the case with decentralized network systems...

IPv6 (2)

SkewlD00d (314017) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087238)

It would cost mucho dinero to upgrade all the infrastructure to support it. But, IPv4 and IPv6 can coexist. The prob is that 50% of lan equipment isn't upgradable. Telcos wont want to float the bill, they'll pass the buck to you.

Woot, most common excuse for downtime.... "upgrading."

YAEUU: Yet Another Expensive Useless Upgrade

the bothersome part (4, Funny)

nukey56 (455639) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087241)

IPv6 will fix a lot of problems, but one nasty side effect is that we're going to end up with addresses that look like 3ffe:400:34:fd01::1, instead of the easily memorizable four octets. When that day comes, it's going to be a lot harder to shout down the IP of the game server you're playing on down the hall.

"Oh, I'm on three-f-f-e-four,four-zero-zero,three-four,f-d-zer o-one,not(?),one. What's taking you so long?!?"

Re:the bothersome part (0, Troll)

estoll (443779) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087354)

Did I hear a niner in there?

Re:the bothersome part (1, Troll)

geekoid (135745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087358)

IF the only way to communicate to someone else on a computer is to shout down the hall, you got bigger problems.
We could have a cntral database where everybody applies for a unique, easy to remember coputer name.
You thoght re-selling domain names where big, this would be a huge money maker.

Re:the bothersome part (not!) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087359)

!not. Naught.

Re:the bothersome part (1, Troll)

boopus (100890) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087371)

Hmm, seems like there's already a solution in place for this... I've been using DNS for years...

Re:the bothersome part (1, Troll)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087380)

Hehehehehehehehehe

Of course on internal networks you can simply use IPv4 style ips though... So at lan parties you can use 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0 with ease.

Tom

Moving a super-tanker (4, Interesting)

iPaul (559200) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087244)

IPV6 is better. Autoconfiguration, neighbor discovery, big address space, compatability with IPV4, etc. However, the more hacks we put in to make IPV4 work the harder it is to change. For the most part we're educating people to do "Stupid IPV4 Tricks" rather than moving to IPV6. The more of that we do the harder it is to change. Also, the more ominous the prospect of change, the more people will dread it.

Frankly, I'm thinking we might see another round, like IPV7 (or IPV8 if they make a habit of skipping odd numbers), or it might come very late. Maybe we'll see it on phones and wireless devices before we see wide-spread adoption of IPV6 or general purpose networking.

Re:Moving a super-tanker (2)

debrain (29228) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087373)

IPV7 (or IPV8 if they make a habit of skipping odd numbers)

Odd numbers are development numbers. Same thing with the minor version of the kernel. (2.1, 2.3,2.5 are dev versions).

ISP incentive (3, Redundant)

JDizzy (85499) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087255)

A reward system needs to be enacted to entice the ISP's to provide unencumbered access to the 6-bone. ISP's that handle dial-up users can tunnel the ip4 traffic on behalf of their customers.

In other news... (1, Funny)

Flarg! (265195) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087260)

A group of developers are working diligently on a new, improved IP stack. They are going to release it open source, and they will call it IP Freely.

Heheh

2 at once? (1)

theCURE (551589) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087268)

In my opinion, IPv6 should be started alongside of IPv4, allowing people to jump back and forth to either. I wouldn't be suprised if the bigger backbone providers did testing like this, and if they aren't already. Everyone will be dying to jump on the IPv6 bandwagon sure enough.

Not "needed" yet (1)

ctp (29513) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087274)

A while back everyone thought we would run out of IP addresses by now...that hasn't turned out to be the case. Conservative estimates place the date about 20 years out.

Not that that's the only reason to do it...but that's one that might get everyone off their butts to do something about it.

Re:Not "needed" yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087428)

That may be true and all, for the US atleast. The problem is many many countries are feeling the IP pinch.

As another poster accurately pointed out, MIT has more IPs allocated than all of China. Why, why do they need all of that address space? They use only a fraction of it-it's hugely wasteful.

It's also tough to get another IP allocated for home use (over broadband systems). Minimally, it's $5 extra a month, sometimes much more.

With IPv6, I'd be more than happy to get the /48 that they will be issuing. No more NAT bullshit eh (even though it does have useful purposes).

I just wonder about how much more bandwith is going to be wasted sending out 128 bits more of address in the header (among other stuff), versus our 32bit system today... That's surely going to cost more to trunk than our simple system today...

IPv6 will become the standard... (3, Funny)

popular (301484) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087294)

as soon as we USians switch to the metric system.

Re:IPv6 will become the standard... (2)

scorcherer (325559) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087367)

> as soon as we USians switch to the metric system.

I thought you're already making progress, inch by inch. Then again, it's not much better here in the Europe. I'll go now and have 0.586L of beer.

Some places have already tried... (1)

corren (559473) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087296)

In seattle, a company started about a year and a half ago called Zama, they were poised to deliver the first world-class IPv6 Colo facility in the USA, and now, less than 12 months after they launch a completely state of the art facility, they are gone. Zama.net no longer points anywhere. The reason? Nobody needs IPv6 yet. I'm sorry, but we don't need 19 million or however many millions of IP addresses for each person on the planet just yet. I know, it's a shame, as I was just about to launch the new Gilette MachIPv6 Razor, with a full web interface to monitor individual blade sharpness, but alas, now I'll have to launch the plain old IPv4 version. How will I ever manage?

Re:Some places have already tried... (1)

ScuzzMonkey (208981) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087403)

Whew. Glad I didn't get that job over there at Zama, after all. It's amazing how many places didn't hire me a year ago that are out of business now. :)

Too costly at this point (1, Redundant)

Tremul (190113) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087297)

The main reason we aren't seeing widespread IPV6 is that it's not backwards compatable wiht IPv4. This being the case we would essentially have to replace every server in the US to get IPv6 to work.

Other solutions like tunneling,translation and dual stack do exist. However all of these technologies(except dual stack) have limited capabilities.

Having a Dual Stack(one that supports both IPv4 and IPv6) seems to be the most obious solution for the transition. However, this still requires the replacement of servers accross the World.

Re:Too costly at this point (2, Informative)

ShmakDown (536071) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087349)

Hardware implementation is most deffinatly the bottle neck that has to be dealt with, but some of the tunneling solutions that are out there now are not as bad as they might seem.

They basically just wrap an IPv4 wrapper around the IPv6 packet and send it back out across the net. A lot of network edge routers do similar types of things already, and many edge routers are doing IPv6 tunneling now.

Check out info about netBSD's IPv6 packages [netbsd.org] to see what solutions are already available and starting to become more wide spread.

Because of all the moron MCSE IT staffers out ther (1, Informative)

i0nic (562510) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087304)

As long as companies and institutions keep hiring IT managers whose only technical knowledge lies in the realm of the Redmond, new technology will be implemented slowly. Every company or institution I either work or consult for now with a pro Microsoft IT manager is well behind the curve. The Linux/Unix pro IT managers I deal with already have IPV6.

STUPID FUCKING TROLL (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087498)

that is all

Get some from the U.S. (0, Redundant)

Wassini (61178) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087321)

The problem could be solved very quickly for some time just by limiting the IP pools for some of the big U.S. universities. Some of them have more IP addresses than e.g. China.

Not a permanent sollution but...

It'll happen when "everyone" knows how it works (2)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087324)

At the moment, IP VI is just a name to most network and systems administrators. My Linux boxes have VI support but I've never looked at it.

When there's available information about where to get addresses, configuring routes, netmasks, gateways, setting up name services etc. All the admin stuff that's done on a daily basis with IP IV.

At the moment nobody knows what they have to do in order to setup and use IP VI.

The installed base is hard to change... (4, Informative)

Old time hacker (302793) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087330)

I think that IPv6 will take a significant amount of time to acheive widespread deployment in the US. Why? There are too many devices (cable/dsl router/firewall appliances) in use that don't support v6. While they may be flash upgradeable, I'm sure that the vendors would prefer to sell a new box which did support v6.

I've thought about running v6 at home and connecting up to the 6bone. However, the list of instructions was long and complex, and it was unclear to me that my existing ipchains based firewall code would continue to protect me. It was also unclear that I could enhance the ipchains rules to protect myself.

I quite like the idea of being able to expose multiple devices on different IP addresses, but it is (still) a non-trivial exercise.

On a side note, I'd like to see more deployment of multicast -- this could help Internet Radio stations significantly in the future. Yes, there aren't good multicast clients at the moment, but that is because there is little multicast to listen to, and no way of getting multicast to the end user. Lobby your ISP for multicast!

p.s. In case you think that I'm an idiot for not being able to configure IPv6 on Linux -- I'll tell you that I was kernel contributer in the pre-1.0 kernels.

What's the problem here? (0)

RMSIsAnIdiot (556315) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087341)

The biggest "What if?" is that if China's population keeps growing, we will definitely need IPv6 soon. But since everything in Red China runs through proxy servers, where's the problem? Just use NAT!

Headaches (1)

Tremblay99 (534187) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087343)

OS's are easy to upgrade -- or, at least, they should be. But what about all those hardware devices like SOHO broadband routers? Those suckers are everywhere. I remember reading that mine, a NetGear RT 314, couldn't possibly do IPV6.

I can see telcos and corporations using it. For them, the advantages are great. But for consumers? The hassles would seem to outweigh the benefits.

I thought (1)

abe ferlman (205607) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087353)

I thought WindowsXP solved all our DOS problems...

ba-dum pshhhhhh

IPv6 = Touch Tone (1)

bigpat (158134) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087363)

We are back to the old days of AT&T taking 20 years to roll out a new service... this will end up being like "Touch Tone" which we are all still paying for.

It's a simple fix (2)

I_redwolf (51890) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087368)

OS vendors just need to start supporting it and network/system administrators need to start implementing it. For instance Solaris comes with the option of enabling IPV6 but keeping continued functionality with IPV4, it allows for migration. Openbsd does this as well I believe and I've started to see some Linux distro's do the same. Now all we need to do is actually implement it. Alot of people seem to be afraid of IPV6 because of the hex but if you spend a month or two with it; it becomes easier. I recommend some solid reading on IPV4 as well as the IP in general.

IPv6 and IPv4 can live together (3, Informative)

wackybrit (321117) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087370)

Some people have asked whether we can have both systems and 'switch' between them. Sure you can, but it's not worth it.

As far as I recall (been a long time since I studied this), IPv6 and IPv4 can actually live and work together on the same network.. without being independent.

That is, IPv6 can be used on the backbones and to connect the larger networks, but IPv4 can still be used at a more local level. Gateways can be established that will translate addresses and the benefits of having far more addresses available can be realized.

However, one problem with running both protocols and using a gateway is that the only benefit you get is having more addresses.. but since we're running out of IP addresses with v4, this is kinda important. A local v4 and backbone v6 solution wouldn't help solve local DOS problems, or allow us to use any of v6's advanced features.

But is an Internet wide upgrade to IPv6 really a viable thing to do? It'd be like converting the US to drive on the left side of the road overnight. Even if you did it state by state, you're gunna have major troubles at the state borders.. converting the Net over to IPv6 will be the same.

That said, there is a network called the 6Bone [6bone.net] which you can join up to and actually play with IPv6 stuff from your existing IPv4 network. Go, and get your own IPv6 address today!

(Disclaimer: As I said, I studied IP way too long ago, so any updates, corrections or just plain disagreements with my post are welcomed, and indeed encouraged.)

IPv6 would solve some and DOS problems (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087376)

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

Re: IPv6 would solve some and DOS problems (1)

i0nic (562510) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087389)

Some exploits used to produce DOS attacks are not present in IPV6. I guess that is what he was getting at.

Don't hold your breath (4, Funny)

MeowMeow Jones (233640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087385)

Most of the people I know haven't even upgraded to IPv5 yet!

Come on people, it's 2002!

IP6 might be the death of linux. (2, Interesting)

Krapangor (533950) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087413)

...unless the development speeds up fast.
My experiences with IP6 and Debian woody:
  • inetd is fucked up accepts only connections to ::1, no other addresses supported which makes the box practically unreachable from outside
  • netstat/route etc don't support ip6, only ifconfig
  • if ip6 is supported then no or only crippled documentation existd
These are only a few issus. Unless these thing get fixed fast then FreeBSD will replace Linux at most professional environments.

Re:IP6 might be the death of linux. (1)

ShmakDown (536071) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087451)

I doubt linux will fade away for any real reason. It has too large of a development base for that to happen. It might be behind the standards for various amounts of time at different points in the future but big deal, it's still a good free alternative for a lot of people.

But, the real thing I was going to mention is that if you want to do IPv6 stuff now try looking at the various BSDs. netBSD has a lot of IPv6 packages available.

America Doesn't Change Standards Easily (4, Funny)

puppetman (131489) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087415)

Heck, you are the only first-world nation that doesn't use metric, and that's easy to figure out.

Yup, a ball and chain slowing down progress....

Profitability (1)

Jennifer Ever (523473) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087418)

I doubt it'll really take off until the benefits of an upgrade outweigh the costs of new infrastructure and the loss of value of existing IPv4 address space.

ipv6 is not a problem to implement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087422)

look at it this way, 90% of the net traffic is porn. all of the protocols that porn is viewed over can be tunnelled over http. http proxies are everywhere, and a decent web proxy can send and receive both ipv4 and ipv6. poc.

Tech Issues (1)

caperry (31048) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087436)

The biggest roadblocks I see are technical issues:

Routing - We now have over 5 BILLION subnets to route on the backbone. Name one piece of Cisco hardware that can traverse a routing tables with 5,000,000,000 entries in less than 10ms.

DNS - The great debate of AAAA vs A6 vs somthing else. And while we're at it, is an extension on the exiting DNS system worth it, or should we go to somthing better.

Security - Do we trust Verisign enough to continue issuing all the certificates that make the internet more secure? Do we trust them enough to keep name resolution secure? Can we use crypto on the Internet without worring about severe criminal penalties?

And on top of that there are the political issues. IPv6 will solve problems, but it will cost money. The world likes "bug fixes" and "service packs" better than product replacment. Remeber, upgrades can be hidden in support costs while new products require management approval.

IPv6 is coming, but prob. not until the entire far-east (India, China, etc) are as on-line as the west. IPv6 will be implemented out of desparation, and not by any IETF mandate. Of course, I have been wrong before.

Re:Tech Issues (2, Insightful)

dieman (4814) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087509)

Because of the larger space, theres no reason AOL can't be aggragated into *one* bgp announce and be allocated *one* block that they will ever need, forever.

Fear that!

content (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3087455)

IMHO, it's about the content. Or rather, lack of it. Except for some technical material, there's not anything out there that will pull John Q. User into wanting to have v6 access on their machine. Just because Sun and others have some technical web pages on the 6Bone, that doesn't drive deployment.

One of the things I was helping out with in a previous life at AOHell was implementing a fledgling v6 network. The big push was to be able to have some basic infrastructure in place (along with appropriate uplinks) to be able to support Spinner/Shoutcast/etc. as well as possibly even an AIM gateway. Ideally, some of the big AOL-TW website content would be replicated to v6 webservers as well.

Two of us that were doing some of the networking for the lead architect have since moved on to companies that no longer treat us like s**t, so I don't know what the current progress is, but given the demand by the EU and AsiaPac folks, I suspect it won't be terribly long before things start popping up, even if it's just some unannounced testing.

(Yes, I have an account, but prefer to post this stuff anon.)

An interesting question (5, Interesting)

wowbagger (69688) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087459)

OK, I am about to say something that will make many of you who are knowledgable about IPV6 cringe, so take a deep breath and get over it now.

When IPV6 is deployed, how do I prevent the machines on the inside of my firewall from being routable?

Right now, my personal computer is on the inside of a NAT firewall. There is no way you can route a packet to it - go ahead, try to telnet to 10.200.120.4, I dare you.

Now, I know there are those who say NAT CONSIDERED HARMFUL, and I agree in the general case it does break the essential peer to peer nature of TCP/IP.

But what if I want to break it?

How well tested are the Linux kernel modules for firewalling IPv6? Can I still protect my internal machines from the slings and arrows of outragous 5|<197 |<!66!3Z?

IPv6 (2)

SkewlD00d (314017) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087462)

Interesting moot point... it seems that 3G licensees were going to require IPv6. Search for "IPv6" on various corporate and info sites:



This long annoying sentence here to get around an annoying slashcode bug, because it can't count.

ISP's are biggest holdbacks... (3, Interesting)

kbonin (58917) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087479)

They have tons of money invested in hardware they don't want to replace. Sticking to IPv4 makes it easy to keep user bases behind short-lease DHCP, which helps to keep the average user from mounting a public server that'll eat bandwidth the ISP doesn't want to provide.

Also a few Cisco points: 1) While some routers do support IPv6, the cheaper ones don't, and a decent percentage of older high end routers have routing algs implimented in semi-custom silicon - not software upgradable! 2) The enterprise network management software is lagging behind in IPv6 support last I heard (I used to work there), not much demand.

USB, NAT (1)

Pussy Is Money (527357) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087481)

A few years ago the IPv4 address shortage seemed more urgent than it is now for a couple of reasons. One of them is obviously the web monoculture -- Internet access has become virtually synonymous with web browsing. This allows a lot of corners to be cut.

Another thought that occurred to me is that the predicted explosion of TCP/IP-enabled devices never really took off. It's interesting to see how many devices instead use USB, or serial, or some other means still to connect to eachother, instead of TCP/IP over Ethernet. This is something that I think was overlooked in earlier predictions.

IPv6 support better in BSDs then linux (1)

ShmakDown (536071) | more than 12 years ago | (#3087484)

I've noticed a lot of people complaining about Linux's IPv6 support or lack there of, and just wanted to point people over to the BSD flavours that have a lot of IPv6 support.

Personally I'm more farmilar with netBSD, there IPv6 package list can be viewed here [netbsd.org] .

Most of the BSD's also have great multicast support and mbone packages.. Jim

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