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Linux Web Browsers Compared

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the konqueror-rulez dept.

The Internet 432

Rob Valliere writes: "The best Linux Web browsers have dramatically improved in the past few months: they are all stable, standards compliant and loaded with solid feature enhancements and additions. Using Red Hat 7.2 and the KDE desktop, the premier Linux browsers are Galeon 1.0.3, Mozilla 0.9.8 and Opera 6.0 TP3. The best Web downloads and installs were from Opera and Mozilla, which have minimal dependencies. Galeon is a small download but can be difficult to upgrade due to its Mozilla and GNOME dependencies."

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fp (-1)

anal-johnson (528597) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090105)

from the left coast, woohoo!

Alan Thicke. DEAD. (-1)

Alan_Thicke (553655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090106)

I just heard the sad news on CBC radio. Comedy actor/writer Alan Thicke was found dead in his home this morning. Even if you never liked his work, you can appreciate what he did for 80's television. Truly a Canadian icon. [slashdot.org]
He will be missed :(



Show me That Smile (The Growing Pains Theme Song):

Show me that smile again.
Ooh show me that smile.
Don't waste another minute on your crying.
We're nowhere near the end.
We're nowhere near.
The best is ready to begin.

As long as we got each other
We got the world
Sitting right in our hands.
Baby rain or shine;
All the time.
We got each other
Sharing the laughter and love.

Huh? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090112)

Someone forgot to mention Konqueror in the summarizing article...

Hello Geeks (-1, Offtopic)

l33t j03 (222209) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090119)

You are all morons. That is all for now, thank you for reading.

P.S. - Please don't steal anything on your way out.

Open Source is not the issue - Its the image (-1, Troll)

RoboTroll (560160) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090126)

I wonder if Slashdot readers have thought about the opinion of the general public of Open Source/GNU/Linux etc.

I have been involved in the marketing (dirty word I know!) of software and hardware to non-technical people for a number of years. The consultancy group I work for numbers many of America's top blue-chip electronics and software corporations among its clients, I have over 11 years experience of marketing, and 4 years experience of software development (VB) and systems administration (NT 3.51), in addition to a marketing science qualification from one of America's top business schools - so it's safe to say that I know what I am talking about when it comes to computers and marketing.

I have been keeping an eye this forum for quite some time now, as part of my daily intelligence gathering, I find the robust exchange of views, and technical arguments make an interesting diversion from some of the other corporate bullshit I have to deal with in my working day. I also read corporate intelligence reports from the Gartner group, Forrester, the Meta group, and Olsen Online Business Intelligence Services. Slashdot has often proved to be far more accurate when it comes to the technical details,and I am often amazed at the incredible levels of intelligence and insight shown by its readership, some of whom demonstrate a knowledge of Linux and Operating systems far in advance of anyone I have ever met, even in the IS department of major corporations. For this reason, I feel I should contribute my 2c to the debate about the future direction of Linux and the whole Open Source movement in general.

I feel I can do my bit for the Open Source community by offering (free of charge) some of my hard-earned knowledge straight from the bloody trenches at the front-line of tech-Marketing. Normally I would be paid over $4000/day for my perspective, but Slashdot - this one's on me. You people can think of it as my small and unworthy attempt to "give something back" to the Community.

Why Linux/Open Source has an image problem in major US Corporations and what the community can do about it. Like any movment, political or religious, Open Source/Linux has its Leaders, High priests and Gurus. These high profile individuals represent the public face of the organization. Like it or not, these people are associated with the product in the eyes of the buying public. One of the first things the Linux movement must do in order to gain acceptence by middle-America and Joe-and-Jean Sixpack and their 2.4 kids, is to develop what we in the Marketing profession call a "Happy Face".

When Joe Sixpack drives past a McDonald's, he associates it with the smiling face of Ronald McDonald the clown,and quality food served quickly. When he is choosing a collect-call company, the smiling face of Al Bundy (of TV's Married with Children) springs to mind, and when he thinks of fried chicken in large capacity bucket-like containers, it is the image of the happy-go-lucky avuncular Colonel with his associations of good old Southern hospitality that sticks in his memory. (In marketing terms this is known as a "positive association". Because the image puts the consumer into a "buying-receptive" mental state).

Linux/Open Source lacks any kind of "Happy Face". Now this in itself is not a problem, were it not for the fact that Linux has several extremely high-profile advocates who are the exact opposite of "Happy Faces" in that they invite negative associations into the consumers head and put him/her into a state known by Marketers as "passive-aggressive sales-message rejection" (In layman's terms they don't want to buy the product).

Now, I will not lower the tone of the debate by naming names. I will give a few brief profiles and community members will know who I am talking about.

In reverse order of harmfullness we have the laconic, dour nothern European. Not known for his sense of hunor, and with far too many nights spent coding when he should have been out partying he creates an image of Linux as the OS of choice for "friendless geeks who never got laid". (note - I do not subscribe to this viewpoint, but trust me some of my focus group members do).

Then we have the good old gun-toting libertarian self-proclaimed open source guru. Although M.R. studies show that 78% of PC owners show right-wing bias this person is too wacko and off-the scale for them. He alienates them, and in the worst case scares them that they risk being physically harmed if they don't agree with his fundamentalist libertarian "philosophy".

Finally we have a bearded Communist hippy. Do I need to say any more ?

So the normal consumer associates Linux with a sucicidal friendless nerd from some godforsaken corner of Northern Europe, a plainly insane right wing lunatic, and an "alternative lifestyle" Communist throwback to Woodstock with a facial hair problem. Is it any wonder that time after time, the message comes back from my focus groups that Linux is for wierdos ?

Here are a few example comments from a focus group session from Q3 1999 in response to a question about their attitudes to Linux and open source software, you'll get the general idea.

Linux - that's that geek system right ?
I tried Linux but it was too hard for me to install, then that guy flamed me on the newsgroups
I don't want any Open Source software because it is written by communists and I am concerned about security
My boss says Linux was written by Communists and Gun-Nuts
Linux is used by Communists who hate capitalism and Microsoft
Open source software cannot be any good because it is written by college students and hackers.
Linux is not compatible with my USB peripherals
I would like to try Linux but my buddies would think I was a Commie
I could go on and on with these genuine responses, but I think I've illustrated my point well enough. Linux has a serious image problem.

What to do about it is more problematic. Open Source proponents and Linux advocates are fiercely independent and proud of their alternative stance. They see any form of marketing as "selling out to da man" or "not groking it" or becoming a "suit" Any mention of money or financial rewards is derided, and developers are supposed to be content with "Kudos" from the community. Whilst this might be ok at college, or if you are tremendously wealthy, it cuts no ice with Joe Sixpack who was raised on Microsoft and associates Bill's millions with the quality of the software his company puts out. From the focus group again:

If Bill (Gates) is worth that much money he must make the best software in the world.
Microsoft must know what they are doing - the whole world uses their software.
The best programmers work for Microsoft - they have the most tech-savvy hackers there.
Microsoft spend millions on their software I think it is the best in the world.
(referring to IE5)

Again the message is clear: Microsoft is winning the hearts and minds not only of Joe Sixpack, but also Juan Sixpack in South America, Jean-Paul Sixpack in France, Jeroen Van der Sixpack in the Netherlands, Nkwele-Olamu Sixpack in West Africa, Mohammed-Al-Sixpack in Iran, Kulwant Chandrasekhera Sixpack in India, and Boris Sixpack in the Russian Federation.

Their message is powerful, international, and presented relentlessly with no internal bickering and bitching.

What can be done ?

There are no easy answers. The Linux/Open Source community has proved unwilling or unable to accept critisim (even constructive criticism such as this) gracefully, preferring to mount foul-languaged assaults on the personal integrity of anyone who steps out from the party line.

I offer no easy solutions, however here are a few pointers:

  1. As a damage limitation exercise Linux/GNU should appoint itself a "Marketing Spokesperson". This person would be the "official face of Linux/GNU/Open Source". First and Foremost, they would wear an expensive suit, especially when talking to the press or when dealing with high-profile major corporation with deep pockets and $$$s to spend. I realise this is ridiculous from a technical perspective, but with my blend of tech-savvy and marketing exprience, I realize the importance of presentation over technical merit. It goes against the grain of the community, but if we are to become the next Microsoft (and why else would we be in this game if not to win it at all costs), we must fight them on our battleground, but with the same weapons they use against us.
  2. The Penguin logo MUST go ASAP. Although it seemed "cute" and funny at the time, in the eyes of the corporate MIS department it just looks juvenile. Linux needs a new logo, preferably one of those kind of eliptical ones with a swoosh that in the eyes of the public can mean one thing: Hip and cool DOTCOM Corporation. The logo should be bland, yet robust, non-controversial yet ahead of the curve, and toned in serious businesslike colors such as gray, silver, and white. It should transcend culture and religion to be internationally recognized like the Coca-Cola image is all over the world.
  3. Downplay RMS, Linus, ESR, etc. They are technicians with zero understanding of the general public, or of software consumers in general. Indeed many of them only write their program for themselves to "scratch an itch". This is hardly the way to gain public acceptance.
  4. Direct X - A MAJOR stumbling block on Linux's road to world domination is the lack of Direct X support for Linux. This trivial omission means that most games will not run on Linux. Linux could gain 1000's of new games by simply implementing the DirectX api. This is a no-brainer. Kernel support for XML would be a big performance booster too in the B2B and B2C application area, and would make Linux buzzword compliant for XML.
  5. Finally FOCUS GROUPS. Before you think about starting that new open-source project, (be it a new web browser like Mazola, or simply a new front-end for the cdplayer application) Get a focus group together. Use a few minutes of your non-tech-savvy friend's time. If you don't have any friends like that, try your folks, or your grandparents. Ask them what they would like to see in your new program. This way, you will gain "market perspective" on the likely acceptance of your product by the "normal people" of the world.
thank you for your time

From the annals of the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

Before anyone else says it..... (1)

nick255 (139962) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090129)

..what about lynx, w3m, telneting to port 80, etc!

If you've never tried browsing from a terminal, w3m is very good at the job.

Still, a good review. Although I think the 256MB of RAM in says is needed for RedHat 7.2 with KDE is abit on an exageration.

Re:Before anyone else says it..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090292)

Links - a text based browser, is definately worth a try. In my openion much better than lynx or w3c.
http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/lin ks/

Re:Before anyone else says it..... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090409)

Lynx and links are good for console use. If you want a fast X browser (one that doesn't require 64 MB RAM + 450Mhz+ proc), dillo [sourceforge.net] is quite good. I think it's the fastest graphical browser I've ever used.

Konq, Moz and friends are getting a little too fat and bloated for my tastes these days...:-(

What about Konqueror (4, Interesting)

Starving Artist (233866) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090132)

It rocks, except for a few JavaScript nasties.

Re:What about Konqueror (5, Informative)

nick255 (139962) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090154)

And the version in KDE 3 betas is even better. It's the only Linux browser I know of which displays the ticker at the top of the BBC News website [bbc.co.uk] correctly. The others don't even try.

Re:What about Konqueror (2)

cygnus (17101) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090286)

And the version in KDE 3 betas is even better. It's the only Linux browser I know of which displays the ticker at the top of the BBC News website [bbc.co.uk] correctly. The others don't even try.


is that the browser's fault, or BBC's? it could easily be BBC's...

Re:What about Konqueror (1)

filtrs (548248) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090174)

I can live with the JavaScript failures. I don't need no stinking Java in my web pages. Konqueror has been my browser of choice for quite a while (if I can't get away with using lynx).

Re:What about Konqueror (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090248)

Java != JavaScript

You fucking dumbass.

But konqueror does rock, and Java (NOT JavaScript) works fine in it.

Re:What about Konqueror (0, Flamebait)

filtrs (548248) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090355)

OK, so I didn't feel like writing out JavaScript twice. You'll probably notice that I also used horrible grammer in that sentence. It was supposed to be a joke / movie reference. I'm sorry that it annoyed you so much that you felt the need to curse at me. Have some coffee and a fine day.

Re:What about Konqueror (2, Informative)

RagManX (258563) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090238)

Another vote for Konqueror. I can't get any version of Netscape to run stably on a system at work. Version 6 hangs on a few pages I need to access, while Version 4 segfaults on one X display when another instance is started using a different X server to display. We use a browser to view our IDS logs, and multiple users need to have access. Segfaulting on each new unique display instance makes that hard.

Opera runs fine, but the display is not as good as Konqueror. I still use Lynx, but for what I use the browser at work, I have to have graphical. Looks like Konqueror is it for me.

RagManX

Re:What about Konqueror (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090317)

I don't understand why mozilla and friends get so much more attention to konqueror?! I've been using konqueror for over a year now and since i started using it I will never go back. It's:
-FASTER
-highly configurable
-smaller
-rarely crashes
-handles netscape plugins
-javascript will be fixed in kde3
-and handles crossover plugins so you can view quicktime videos if you want.

so WHY isnt' it mentioned in the article above? WTF.

Re:What about Konqueror (1, Flamebait)

Tet (2721) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090246)

It rocks, except for a few JavaScript nasties.

No, it's too slow to be usable, and it doesn't render half the pages I try and view correctly. Hell, even Mozilla starts up faster than Konqueror. Opera's the fastest of the lot, but I can't stand the interface, so I stick with Mozilla. Tabbed browsing and decent CSS support really make it a stunning browser these days.

Re:What about Konqueror (3, Interesting)

Apreche (239272) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090304)

Too slow to be usable? What are you tlaking about? Maybe on your machine Mozilla starts up faster than konqueror, but not on mine. Opera is the fastest, but I can't stand the interface either. I think we need some benchmarks here, last I remember mozilla was the slowest browser, um, ever.

Re:What about Konqueror (1)

unapersson (38207) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090369)

Are you running KDE? If so that might be why it loads faster for you. If you use a different Window Manager/Desktop Environment it takes a lot longer to load.

I've tried to like Konqueror, but find it crashes too often for me. Normally within a few minutes of opening. I'll try it again though once KDE3 is stable.

I can't remember the last time Mozilla crashed, and I tend to keep it open for a long time with lots of tabs open. So if it did I'd be slightly annoyed...

Re:What about Konqueror (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090285)

It cleary the browser of the future! If all web designers could just stick with the _standards_,, you would never need another browser.

Re:What about Konqueror (1)

RisingSon (107571) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090326)

Yet another vote for konqueror. I like the cookie management, it renders fast, starts up fast (if you don't have to wait for kdeinit), good font control and almost displays as many pages correctly as Mozilla. It makes a much better file manger, too.

It has been really fun watching Konqueror develop over the last couple of years (since KDE 2.0). I'm excited for 3.0!

My question is this - (3, Insightful)

G-funk (22712) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090136)

What's the best Open Source browser that doesn't have mozilla dependencies? Konqueror? Or something I'm not aware of? I'd like something that can handle most html3 (nothing too crazy mind you) to embed to handle simple display stuff.

Re:My question is this - (2, Insightful)

pridefinger (549632) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090222)

I was going to suggest Opera, but the fact that you specified Open Source cuts it out of the picture. If you are embedding it for commercial use, Konqueror is probably your best bet as far as licensing. Having worked at an embedded linux company that went with Opera, despite it's proprietary nature, I'm quite biased to it (it's what I use everywhere, everyday, so when I get the funds for a Zaurus, I'll be right at home).

Anyway, Konqueror is next IMHO.

-Pride

Re:My question is this - (1)

grahams (5366) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090375)

What's the best Open Source browser that doesn't have mozilla dependencies?

lynx. =)

Re:My question is this - (2)

ajs (35943) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090413)

Best open source browser with no Mozilla dependencies? Well, Mozilla, of course! You can always install Mozilla, even if you don't have Mozilla installed already.

Seriously, I've used most of the browsers out there, and the smoothest experience I've had continues to be Mozilla. It used to be that there were always one or two "gee, that's annoying" bugs for every release. But, since 0.9.6 or so, I've been a happy camper.

Galeon tries to do a lot cool stuff, but falls down on reliability. I'm hoping their next generation comes on strong, gets stable and takes over my desktop, but for now....

Konqueror is fine if you only run KDE, but loading the KDE and GNOME libraries really hurts, even on a beefy machine. That said, Evolution virtual mailboxes are even better than VM's (an EMACS-based mail reader), so I cannot possibly switch to KDE exclusively.

Netscape 6.x is a nicely packaged installation of Mozilla (the best I've seen), but adds in too much junk and too many promotional tie-ins.

Netscape 4.x was ok in it's day, but the Web is a different world now, and it's just not usable anymore.

Lynx is my fallback, of course. Good, solid browser with just enough features to get me some google results ;-)

Re:My question is this - (4, Informative)

starseeker (141897) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090425)

You might take a look at Dillo (http://dillo.sf.net) - it is small, fast, doesn't depend on mozilla, and generally makes a good fast browser. It is under development, but even so for what you describe it should work fine.

ALTP (-1)

kcin (34043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090145)

At least third post! I have niggah skillz.
Bow down before those you serve.

Let's hope.. (5, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090148)

that now all the major Linux/Cross platform web browsers, and even IE 6 are paying attention to the W3C standards that we will all one day be choosing our browser based on what we like, rather than what web developers like

Re:Let's hope.. (1)

urmensch (314385) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090417)

it's not that web developers like a certain browser, they were forced to follow the money. if they had any respect for standards then they at least degraded gracefully... i know we did this for netscape and i was personally always nagging production peeps to look at their work through mozilla on my linux machine.

The most important choices are missing (2, Funny)

Krapangor (533950) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090150)

  • lynx
  • netcat with less
  • vi
  • emacs
  • ed
  • telnet
Graphics is just for banner ads.

Re:The most important choices are missing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090211)

... and text for weenie obituaries.

Re:The most important choices are missing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090217)

You forgot about links, wget, and writing a program in assembler that just interfaces with the kernel of your favourite OS [microsoft.com] to open a socket to a specified IP, entered only in network-byte-order, and dump the web page to a file that you can use your favourite text editor or pager with.

Just displaying right is a big plus. (3, Informative)

nesneros (214571) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090162)

Having been (in the last year) through Konqueror, Galleon, Netscape (4.whatever), and Mozilla on a Mandrake box, I've found that Mozilla's the only one that consistantly displays pages correctly. The other 3 I found would often screw up font sizes and leave side bars unreadable.

Re:Just displaying right is a big plus. (1)

i0nic (562510) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090228)

I can agree with that. Konqueror tends to display pages large and clunky, even when you try to adjust the view formatting. Netscape just has way too many (stalled) problems for me. Galeon is a pain to upgrade, much like this article noted. All that's left is Mozilla, that renders everything very nicely. The only thing I had to configure for Mozilla, like Konqueror, was the Java support.

Re:Just displaying right is a big plus. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090231)

Weird, Galeon is based on moz, it uses the same rendering engine (Gecko), so anything moz displays right, galeon also displays right (AFAIK). Galeon is "just" another UI around the Gecko rendering engine

Re:Just displaying right is a big plus. (1)

fferreres (525414) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090282)

Mozilla can't dasplay better than Galeon though, a it uses the mozilla rendering engine (geckos).

And tommorow /. reports on the best ftp clients! (-1, Flamebait)

boltar (263391) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090166)

I mean really , who gives a damn? Maybe AOL lusers have pissing contests about the best
browsers but most linux users I know are more interested in other more technical matters
rather than Best Browser.

Re:And tommorow /. reports on the best ftp clients (-1, Troll)

popeyethesailor (325796) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090215)

Jeeze another newbie. How did your da let you use that #263391 UID ? This is what we do on Slashdot, and you better like it :)

To sound cool... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090171)

I'll say, "What about lynx? telnet? curl?"

Opera ads became intrusive (4, Interesting)

GSV NegotiableEthics (560121) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090176)

Opera used to be my favorite browser, but I switched from that to Mozilla at around Christmas, simply because of one ad campaign that involved an animated gif of human head that waggled from left to right. It was so intrusive that I took to covering the ad area with a gnome-terminal, and looked around for another browser. I told the Opera people about my problems.

Using X on a small laptop via a fairly powerful firewall machine, I eventually realised that I could run Mozilla on the firewall and put the display on the laptop. Although Mozilla is a rather bigger browser than Opera, it actually runs better in that mode than when I ran Opera on the laptop.

it's SUPPOSED to be intrusive (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090209)

They want you to buy it, after all.
They have to make money somehow!
You cheap bastard.

Re:it's SUPPOSED to be intrusive (0, Troll)

GSV NegotiableEthics (560121) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090276)

You cheap bastard.

I'm not cheap, I'm a free software advocate trying to wear the Opera people down.

GD&R

Re:it's SUPPOSED to be intrusive (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090323)

I'm not a shoplifter, I'm a free stuff advocate trying to wear stores down!

galeon difficult to install? (2, Insightful)

303 (21429) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090180)

apt-get install galeon :)

Re:galeon difficult to install? (1, Offtopic)

Chainsaw (2302) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090391)

chainsaw@hellport:~$ apt-get install galeon
bash: apt-get: command not found
chainsaw@hellport:~$

Nope, that doesn't work.

Re:galeon difficult to install? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090436)

Howbout,
cd /usr/ports/www/galeon && make install. Sowcow!!!
By the way, what are dependencies?

No problems with Galeon (2, Insightful)

igiveup (267632) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090193)

You do have to have Gnome and Mozilla installed, but I have not had any extra problems installing Galeon once those two are installed. I would like to see the Gecko rendering engine avaible as an individual library (if it already is, then forgive my ignorance).

If you ask me.. (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090197)

the best web browser is still Internet Explorer.
once Konqueror's js probs are fixed, it'll be almost as good
mozilla is also very nice but heavy (less so in windows than in linux?)
opera is featureful, but slow in rendering, but has a faster user interface than mozilla.

Using mozilla (3, Insightful)

mansoft (371174) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090198)

It's curious to see how netscape 4.x isn't even included in that group. Some years ago it was the only browser we could use to decently surf the web.

I've been using mozilla since the M1x releases, and it has certainly improved its capabilities and stability. However I still find the interface too heavy. Perhaps galeon does it better, though.

What I still miss in mozilla (now using 0.9.8) is acceptable support for java and flash. When both plugins are installed they give me so many problems that I end up by uninstalling them.

Re:Using mozilla (4, Funny)

Spankophile (78098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090253)

It's curious to see how netscape 4.x isn't even included [...]

Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Re:Using mozilla (1)

Dante'sPrayer (534726) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090377)

Using Mozilla. 0.9.8. No problems at all with plugins.

But I'm using the flash plugin from the Debian package (netscape-base-477). Download the package from packages.debian.org [debian.org] , unpack it on a temporal directory and copy libflashplayer.so to your mozilla plugins directory.

I have Java installed from autoinstall, not from the JDK. On Moz0.9.6 or something it gave lots of trouble; works fine now.

Real men don't use no stinkin' browsers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090212)

Real hackers use telnet, the safest and most compatible browser since the invention of the web.

I'll go with Opera (4, Informative)

Uttles (324447) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090213)

I'm using it on both a Windoze and Linux platform and I have to say that it is extremely fast, just like the slogan says. The program just feels lightweight the way it pops right up and "loads" all your pages instantly (ok so they're not always refreshed, but hey). Anyway, be sure to install the java lib with it under windows or you may have some problems there (at least I do sometimes) but under linux it doesn't seem to matter.

Re:I'll go with Opera (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090265)

Be prepared for Opera to just disappear (crash) sometimes.

Also, sometimes when downloading, it will lock up.

It is fast though. Fast to load and fast to use. I hate that tab completion doesn't work in the URL line though. That alone is enough to not make me use it (although the crashing for no reason doesn't help).

The somewhat portly Mozilla seems to be the best at this point.

Re:I'll go with Opera (2, Interesting)

DrSpin (524593) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090299)

I am using Opera 6.0 on FreeBSD and its very good. Shame the mail facility doesnt work though - I could get most of the family to switch to *BSD from Windows if it did!

I like "open in background" and the "mouse gestures".

I'd register if it was Native FreeBSD, but its actually the Linux one in compatibilty mode.

Re:I'll go with Opera (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090371)

I often consider buying opera, but then it crashes (sometimes even on a simple static page) or mishandles javascript and I have to wonder why anyone would buy it.

So for now I'm fine with the ads and I keep reporting recurring bugs to them.

stable? HAHAHHAA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090223)

ha

Galeon and Opera being my favs (2)

xtremex (130532) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090233)

I'm using Mozilla now, but I love the sheer speed of both Opera and Galeon. I'm using Mdk 8.1 on this machine, and upgrading galeon is something I fear. Last time it took me about an hour to fix png.h errors. I had to go BACK certain lib versions and go back a libpng version. I have my system set up PERFECTLY. So I dont want to upgrade Galeon. I'm afraid If I upgrade Mozilla, it'll break galeon too!

Re:Galeon and Opera being my favs (1)

303 (21429) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090300)

apt-get update; apt-get upgrade

yes, i have apt-get on the brain ;)

KDE (5, Insightful)

asv108 (141455) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090243)

So basically this guy had a grudge against Konqueror because he had trouble upgrading KDE. I wouldn't call this a very objective or informative review. The other weakness he cites with Konqueror is lack of features, but most people don't even use the latest "bells and whistles" offered with a new browser build. Usually those "Features" turn out to be annoyances like sidebars.

Konqueror is not a MUA/newsreader/HTML editor! (4, Informative)

tomRakewell (412572) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090249)

Since Mozilla 0.9.8 seems to keep crashing (0.9.6 seemed to me to be the peak of stability for the browser), I've been using Konqueror a lot more.

It does make me miss good Mozilla things, like tabbed browsing. I've also run into a number of pages that Konqueror does not handle all that well, but I'm not sure if its due to standards violations in those pages or in Konqueror.

I might be missing it, but I also can't find a way to do a text zoom in Konqueror!

Konqueror seems to be as fast as Opera at rendering pages (but no in-gui ads!). And, for the paranoid, it handles cookie requests as well as... Lynx!

And Konqueror doesn't have a ton of dependencies like Galeon or skipstone... (it just depends on the whole of KDE!)

Best of all, Konqueror is *just* a web browser, which is something all the other browser projects should come to terms with. I am never going to use Mozilla's mail client, their news reader, or their HTML editor. In fact, the inclusion of these items tends to slow me down when I accidentally invoke them.

Wouldn't these massive browser projects benefit greatly by focusing on only *one thing*, like making a nice, fast, stable, standards-compliant browser? Isn't that hard enough?

Lately, when I build Mozilla, I choose not to build those components, which speeds up the build process nicely!

Re:Konqueror is not a MUA/newsreader/HTML editor! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090431)

>>Best of all, Konqueror is *just* a web browser

not the last time i checked

from www.konqueror.org:
-----------------------
Konqu eror is the file manager for the K Desktop Environment. It supports basic file management on local UNIX filesystems, from simple cut/copy and paste operations to advanced remote and local network file browsing.

Konqueror is the canvas for all the latest KDE technology, from KIO slaves (which provide mechanisms for file access) to component embedding via the KParts object interface, and it's one of the most customizable applications available.

Konqueror is an Open Source web browser with HTML4.0 compliance, supporting Java applets, JavaScript, CSS1 and (partially) CSS2, as well as Netscape plugins (for example, Flash or RealVideo plugins).

Konqueror is a universal viewing application, capable of embedding read-only viewing components in itself to view documents without ever launching another application.
-----------------------
it's quite a bit more than a web browser

>>Wouldn't these massive browser projects benefit greatly by focusing on only *one thing*, like making a nice, fast, stable, standards-compliant browser?

that's exactly what galeon strives for. it only uses the rendering engine of mozilla, and is "nice, fast, stable, [and] standards-compliant"

finally, if you dont want to use mozilla's mail or news clients, dont install them. like you said, you can either choose not to build them, or don't install them. not sure about debian, but i know that the redhat rpms that are supplied break it down into mozilla, mozilla-mail, etc.

Re:Konqueror is not a MUA/newsreader/HTML editor! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090443)

i find mozilla .9.8 stable as a rock. but then i run debian sid and don't 'attempt' to build my own.

konqueror is shit at dhtml and javascript rendering it pretty useless really. tell me you're whoring.

emphasis! (0, Redundant)

VAXGeek (3443) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090251)

This article sure does use a lot of bold words. I'm glad the author was very enthuastic in this article about browsers, but is this level of boldness really prudent? You be the judge!

Push them to the limit! (5, Interesting)

ihatelisp (529132) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090252)

Come on, the test only briefly mentioned about testing with graphics, CSS, and Javascript. Any modern browser can handle that so easily, it's not even worth testing.

When car magzines do a car review, they floor the gas pedal to get the fastest 0-60mph time. They cut corners much faster than street driving speed to test the suspension and handling characteristics of the car. What I don't understand is, why does this browser review treat these browsers like babies? Throw in some DOM2/3, CSS2/3, bidi text, DHTML, and XHTML! Let the best engineered browser shine, instead of fixating on those performance numbers!

Re:Push them to the limit! (2, Informative)

iangoldby (552781) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090415)

Edge [meyerweb.com] .

That sorts the men from the boys - CSS-wise anyway.

Re:Push them to the limit! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090433)

Any modern *heavyweight* browser.

What if you like the more lightweight ones? Not everyone has a 1Ghz machine with half a gig of RAM.

Re:Push them to the limit! (1)

oever (233119) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090434)

and of course SVG and MathML

Mozilla has both of these in a special build. In 0.9.9 MathML will be enabled by default.

Konqueror will have SVG support in version 3. It's in Qt 3 too!

These two technologies will finally make it possible to publish scientific articles in an easily browsable, open standard.

What about (-1)

CmderTaco (533794) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090257)

Internet Explorer?

linux is gay (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090262)

You're all Ass-masters

mozilla (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090266)

mozilla is really sad.

So shitty only a zealot could love it.

You guys are all crazy (-1, Troll)

RMSIsAnIdiot (556315) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090267)

The best Linux Web browsers have dramatically improved in the past few months: they are all stable, standards compliant and loaded with solid feature enhancements and additions.

AHAHHAHAHA HAHAHAHHA HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAH

HEHE HEH EHEHEHEHEH HEHEHEH EHE
hohohoho ohohoho ohoh
ahahahahahahaha

That is too funny guys.

Unfortunately IE has none of these "stability" problems.

Good luck using vi + wget.

SO TRUE MOD THIS UP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090289)

WOOOHOOO

Re:You guys are all crazy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090400)

Netscape 4.x is actually pretty stable under Windows, but not Linux. 6.x just plain sucks a large turd.

Re:You guys are all crazy (1)

SyntheticTruth (17753) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090426)

I realize this is a troll, most likely...

But IE has not stablity problems?

Do [Dial Up|Cable] tech support sometime and keep track of IE issues, bad .dlls, and other general nastiness. In my experience, using both *nix on the desktop (FreeBSD, Linux) and Windows -- they *all* crash and burn.

For the record, I prefer Konq on Linux, Moz on FreeBSD, and I have a choice in Windows these days? ;)

Konqueror (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090278)

Now it's clear - slashdot is anti-Konqueror site. But why?

How about Kmeleon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090279)

How about Kmeleon?

Why Microsoft is Winning (-1)

LunchLady (555057) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090283)

.NET by Microsoft is Alive! Linux is Dead.

Today you will all be briefed on why Microsoft and it's .NET platform are alive and well - and of course why Linux is dying, if not already dead.

Security and privacy are a central part of creating and delivering compelling user experiences. Distributing computing power across numerous systems-both inside and outside the walls of your home or company-creates new types of challenges.
This is one of many areas where Linux falls way short of Microsoft.

The Microsoft® .NET platform is built from the ground up with security in mind. While Linux is built from the ground up by a team of Hackers who don't really know what security is. This leads to administrators of Linux and other such 'free' software to be bogged down with silly configuration and security nightmares.

The .NET Framework, the programming engine at the heart of the .NET platform, provides the means to secure both client and server machines through its core security features. Developers can focus on application logic because security is handled transparently at the core level by the common language runtime. Yet developers can use and extend the security model at any time. As seen simply in Linux each developer must make up for the lack of security contained within the Linux kernel and system around it. This is why Linux is dying. Why would a corporation invest money in developing products for a childish operating system where security comes second?

By using the Internet to enable software applications to more easily work together, Microsoft® .NET promises easier integration within and between businesses, while creating opportunities to more meaningfully connect with consumers. Where is Linux? Where is it? I can't find it anywhere? Because it doesn't do this at all. Linux has a real problem with playing nice. You want to send this file across the country? Not with Linux...
With the tools of the .NET platform, businesses can realize improvements in the time and cost associated with developing and maintaining their business applications, as well as benefitting from empowering employees with the ability to act on vital information anywhere, from any smart device. I guess we are back to the point that no one developes software for Linux because it just doesn't get the job done when it comes to operability and usefulness.

As you all can see, it is pointless to continue this Linux project and you should all consider dropping your current Open Source projects. Leave the programming and application development to the following:
1. Professional who have been schooled in the ways of design and development.

2. Companies who have the resources to actually develiver secure and helpful solutions to the end user.
3. People who take showers.
4. People who do not enjoy looking at the Goatse Man.
The sooner you realize your errors the sooner you can begin to support and extend the knowledge of Microsoft.

Thank You.

Galeon is hard to install/upgrade? (1, Redundant)

swillden (191260) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090287)

Not if you have a decent package management system...

shawn@shawnst21:~$ su
Password:
shawnst21:/home/shawn# apt-get install galeon
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following NEW packages will be installed:
galeon
0 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 1902kB of archives. After unpacking 5751kB will be used.
Get:1 http://non-us.debian.org sid/non-US/main galeon 1.0.3-0.4 [1902kB]
Fetched 1902kB in 29s (64.6kB/s)
Preconfiguring packages ...
Selecting previously deselected package galeon.
(Reading database ... 90725 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking galeon (from .../galeon_1.0.3-0.4_i386.deb) ...
Setting up galeon (1.0.3-0.4) ...

OBSOLETE YOU KARMA WHORE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090331)

dfdffddf
sg
stg
h

Re:Galeon is hard to install/upgrade? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090357)

debian sucks

png/alpha full support (4, Informative)

Dante'sPrayer (534726) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090291)

I found the hability of displaying images with a transparent background and smooth borders a big plus. Right now, the only browsers I know of fully supporting the alpha channel on .png images are Mozilla and Opera 6; Konqueror trims the borders of the image. I don't know if Galeon support png/alpha channel, but given that it uses the Mozilla renderer (Gecko) it maybe does.

That is the biggest grip that I have about Konqueror; some effects on my home page display somewhat broken.

Internationalization, anyone? (5, Informative)

ThinkingGuy (551764) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090295)

I surf a lot of pages in Japanese. While I've found Netscape sufficient for viewing Japanese (and other double-byte character set) language pages, I've often had trouble getting things like web forms to work (this is on the Linux version).
One of my biggest disappointments with Opera (which I last tried out about a year ago) was its lack of support for far eastern languages. I hear this has been resolved in newer versions.
BeOS's NetPositive actually worked the best for me as far as displaying and inputting Japanese.

Anyway, it would be nice if more of these "browser comparison" articles included internationalization (i18n) along with "speed," "standards compliance," "ease of installation", etc. as one of the features tested.

Table rendering performance (5, Interesting)

Admiral Llama (2826) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090307)

One area where IE simply trashes Netscape and Mozilla is rendering huge tables. I'm talking about the 1 meg of text variety. Has anyone tried putting the various browers through the paces on this kind of test?

Dependencies (3, Interesting)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090310)

If one uses Ximian Gnome, keeping up with all those "horrible" dependencies is a snap. I understand why it can seem like a pain, but what does the reviewer want? STATIC builds of everything? Screw that. I'll just pop open Red Carpet and grab it all at once, thanks...

Re:Dependencies (-1)

anal-johnson (528597) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090333)

if one uses gnome at all, they're probably retarded - so what does it really matter?

Opera needs a full-featured set for Linux (2)

gosand (234100) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090320)

I recently switched from Netscape to Opera on my Windows platform, and I LOVE it. The tabbed windows, the ability to block pop-up windows, and the mouse gestures ROCK. So naturally I downloaded it for my Linux machine (Redhat 7.2). Snooze. I had to switch back to Mozilla in 5 minutes. The features just aren't there. I switched from Netscape 4.7.2, so I am used to not having a robust browser, but Opera on Linux just didn't do it for me. I do most of my browsing on Windows, because Opera on that platform is awesome. They really need to have the same features available in the Linux version.

one of my favorites is 'links' (not 'lynx') (3, Informative)

keithmoore (106078) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090324)

it's pure text-based, but it supports tables and a mouse (in xterm, anyway). and it's *fast*.

no java, javascript, cookies, or any of that crap. so it's not good for everything, but when you just want fast access to stuff that is mostly text, or if you're trying to read a site that is too busy (maybe because it's slashdotted), it's a winner.

http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~mikulas/links/

Please... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090328)

The only web browser I even think about using on my Linux computer is Konqueror.

Re:Please... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090362)

Well that's you now isn't it?

I have to go with galeon (1)

Ixe (547791) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090339)

Though I have had one or two slight issues with pages not working right (they didn't work with konqueror either sorry, had to use mozilla, which I think is a little too fat of a program IMHO) I just love the nice slick interface of galeon mainly having the checks for allowing popups or java/javascript right on the settings menu as well as the option for the lil bar with the text boxes at the top with google, rpmfind, etc etc.

Though despite my GUI addictions I use lynx weekly for various reasons and hold nothing against text browers. BTW I never was 1337 enough to think of using telnet on port 80 thx for the idea ;)

Mozilla all the way .. (5, Interesting)

TheViffer (128272) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090359)

may not be the best, but with there latest security options, it makes live nice.

Go into

Edit>Preferences>Advanced>Scripts & Windows

and uncheck "open unrequested windows"

The pop-up nightmare has ended!

Not saying other browsers cant do this, but if they can't, they will be real soon.

Now I am just waiting for the "block these sites" style of entry which can be seeded by a downloaded file to block ad servers.

Re:Mozilla all the way .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090428)

Dude! You say "Mozilla all the way," then say that it "might not be the best," and make a completely half ass argument for Mozilla!

Who the hell modded parent up?

Dependancies (1)

gorf (182301) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090366)

Galeon is a small download but can be difficult to upgrade due to its Mozilla and GNOME dependencies.

Dependancy problems? I don't think that's an issue which should affect Galeon at all. Dependancies are supposed to be sorted out by the package management system; problems with dependancies is a failure of the package management system (or the distribution) and not that of any individual client program. (I note here that galeon is currently in Debian woody and installs without problems)

In fact, all that a large number of dependancies really means is that the programmers are re-using a lot of code, which is generally considered to be a Good Thing.

Here's the deal: (1)

Anonynnous Coward (557984) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090379)

- The *AA have the money to buy the legislation.
- Intel supports the idea of locking you out of your own machine, just not the law to require it.

The answer? Stock up on the best machines you can afford now, before the ban. And make them AMDs.

Re:Here's the deal: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3090442)

D'oh--wrong discussion. I hate it when I do that.

Konqueror failure - how does Redhat package it? (3, Insightful)

Snowfox (34467) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090390)

The author stated that attempting to install Konqueror required that he install all of the KDE environment, and that it damaged his machine.

Does Redhat not package the KDE environment in pieces? If not - why not?

With other distributions, it's been possible to install Konqueror and just the base KDE libraries for quite a long time. You should be able to fit all that you need on a handful of floppies - not a tens-of-megs RPM as the author claims.

New Opera (2, Informative)

srichman (231122) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090394)

the premier Linux browsers are Galeon 1.0.3, Mozilla 0.9.8 and Opera 6.0 TP3
FYI, Technology Preview 3 is no longer the current version of Opera for Linux. They recently released 6.0 Beta 1 [opera.com] .

Problems upgrading KDE?? (1)

Vajsvarana (238818) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090401)

Under SuSE 7.2:
1. download all upgraded RPMs from ftp.suse.com.
2. rpm -U *.rpm
3. SuSEconfig
4. enjoy

Please don't blame KDE for your distribution's packaging errors.

missing pieces (3, Interesting)

futuresheep (531366) | more than 12 years ago | (#3090440)

What about 128-bit support for online transactions? Ease of installing plugins?
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