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China Wants Out of Spam Blocks

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the you-can-bet-they-do dept.

Spam 404

SomeoneYouDontKnow writes: "Apparently, China is feeling the effects of the e-mail blocks Western ISPs are placing on Asian mail to prevent spam, as previously reported here. A group of Chinese legislators is calling for the blocks to be lifted because they're making it difficult for them to communicate via e-mail, and a signed article in The People's Daily is calling on China to ban spam. Maybe now some of the lazy admins of these spam-spewing mail servers will clean up their acts."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Serves em right (1)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111016)

Half the stuff in my Hotmail box is in funny symbols due to Asian character set encoding.

Re:Serves em right (1)

uspsguy (541171) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111060)

I just set a filter to delete anything with an arbitrary asian character. cut my spam waaay down.

Re:Serves em right (-1)

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM (537317) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111064)

Chinks eat rice with chicken or rice with everything else. What a bunch of wacko.

first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111017)

please please please please CHINA!

Re:first post (-1)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111133)

Free China from the Tibetan !

but what if i wanted (0, Offtopic)

Alcimedes (398213) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111023)

some of those viagra infused chopsticks?

shoot, better get on that before i stop getting 50+ e-mails about it a week.

I DO IT WRONG!!!! (-1, Troll)

RoboTroll (560160) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111024)

I do it wrong

Laying here in the shadows of my room, I squint up at my love. My Ms. Portman. I am sore and tired after fucking her for eight solid hours. My chapped and aching dick is soaking in grits to relieve the pain. She gets on her knees and starts lapping the grits up out of the bowl. She places her beautiful hands on my penis and starts to lick the grits off my achy piece.
Massaging my nutsack she....

WAIT, I DO IT WRONG!!!!

Yanking my dick out of her mouth I throw her to the ground and shove it in to her gaping freshly fisted ass. [goatse.cx]

"OH BIG ASS SPORK!! Fuck my ass, fuck my ass good. DEEPER, my stallion, deeper!! Make a Beowulf cluster of sperm on my back!!"

"Imagine a Beowulf cluster of this baby!"

I DO IT WRONG!!!!

I continue to hump her alabaster form. Glistening with beads of sweat, she bites her lip in delight as I tear her ass open with my engorged dick.

"Queen Amidala!!" I shreik as I near climax.

She looks up at me and screams, "You are so alive in me, unlike *BSD or VA Software!!! Fill me with seed!! Yes, Yes, Yess!!!!"

"For me you are calling, hhhmmm?"

"YODA?!? What the fuck, can't you see I am using the force here?"

He savagely kicks my Natalie aside, he pulls out his large green penis and impales me...

I DO IT WRONG!!

All your sporkz are belong to the dead homiez!!

Troll 14 of 110 from the annals of the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

Stories about taking my sister's virginity (-1, Offtopic)

Metrollica (552191) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111066)

I think it was Thursday, October 22, 1977 on the football field at Commack South High School. She drank 3 Pink Champagnes, passed out and I pried her open with a lawn sprinkler, just like Pia Zadora.

well (1)

trelaneopn (563678) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111025)

if you're important enough to be a senator... do you still have to prefix your e-mails to the united states with "this is not spam"

Re:well (0)

lordkuri (514498) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111032)

what would be the point in prefixing them with anything? We don't get them anyways =D

Typical Chinese solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111026)

Bullet to the back of the neck for each sysadmin, wha doesn't deal with spammers on theis servers...

Sounds good to me ;)

Re:Typical Chinese solution (-1)

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM (537317) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111076)

whaaaa!

This might be a silly idea, but... (1)

Reedo (234996) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111029)

Perhaps they should do something about it closer to the source?

Are there laws in China against sending spam in the first place?

Re:This might be a silly idea, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111087)

Are there laws in China against sending spam in the first place?

Yes, you'd expect a country that arrests or harrasses people for owning pets, not submitting to sterilization, being Christian, belonging to a non-violent cult (the name escapes me at the moment), runs students over with tanks, and harvests the organs of quickly condemned "prisoners" would have laws about email spam!

Re:This might be a silly idea, but... (4, Insightful)

NFW (560362) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111125)

Most of the spam I get from Asian mail servers doesn't originate in Asia. It's from US-based spammers who exploit unsecured mail servers, and there seem to be a lot of those in Asia.

For example, when a Californian governor-wanna-be spammed his voters [wired.com] (and apparently lots of Canadians), his spam provider routed the spam through a hapless Korean elementary school.

First the spammers polluted usenet, then email, now they're dicking with international relations. What a lovely bunch of lowlifes.

Reuters has an article on this topic [yahoo.com] as well.

Yeah right (-1, Flamebait)

hairymonster69 (556524) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111030)

Yeah right. I wonder how much of this they can really control. China always has a very unusual relationship with the outside world. They have a very arrogant view of theirselves. The word China in Chinese means, "Center Country". The Chinese government wants their own Network that is totally controlled, and censored, and inaccessible from outside. They don't really care about outside communications. I was in China a few years ago, and asked some people if they knew what happened at Tineman Squre (sp?) on the awful day of June 4th. Nobody knew.

Re:Yeah right (2)

Jeremi (14640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111086)

The Chinese government wants their own Network that is totally controlled, and censored, and inaccessible from outside.


Given that, why is it that they can't be bothered to check their spam relays, to make sure they are "inaccessible from outside"???

Re:Yeah right (1)

nemesisj (305482) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111098)

You're a moron. Everyone in China knows what happened on June the 4th, they just know better than to discuss it with a foreigner who doesn't have a clue.

Re:Yeah right (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111103)

The word China in Chinese means, "Center (sic) Country"

That's because, when they named their country (when the whole of the USA still belonged to the natives of America) they were the central country of their known world. Japan, Korea, Mongolia, India...

They have a very arrogant view of theirselves

No more arrogant than the US and certainly less judgmental.

Re:Yeah right (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111194)

Your view point is as old as your grandmother

harumph. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111033)

Sure, they whine about it now... YA SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT BEFORE YOU STARTED SPAMMING US, JAPS. Assholes spam us, they deserve to get their email privledges taken away.

Re:harumph. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111147)

Japs? Japs is a derogatory word for Japanese, not Chinese. What a fucking moron you are.

Odd that China is looking to take barriers DOWN (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111035)

This, the country that works to keep free thought and communication away from their citizens? :confused:

Re:Odd that China is looking to take barriers DOWN (4, Informative)

civilizedINTENSITY (45686) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111075)

Spam is not free open communication: a bilateral exchange of ideas, or even a onesided thoughtful discourse. Spam is advertising. Democracy is based on the freedom to discuss ideas and differences. Especially its about allowing the expression of ideas that we aren't so fond of ourselves. If "spam" were thoughtful and attempted to express thoughts or ideas in a meaningful way, then we'd call it "journalism" or "literature", and *pay* to have it delivered in a timely manner. Its not. We don't. End of rant :-)

Re:Odd that China is looking to take barriers DOWN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111240)

Yes, but they probably think there is money they are missing out on.

This is a good thing... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111036)

This will make them force their admins to lock down the machines and ban spam. Later versions of sendmail still compile on very old versions of Unix, so having old hardware and software is no excuse. If they run some crappy Windows program, maybe they'll switch to Red Flag Linux, or at least some other crappy Windows program that works better.

Maybe we should use that tactic more often... (5, Funny)

darn (238580) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111037)

I wonder if I can convince the EU to block all mail from USA. That is where I get almost all of my spam from.

-----------
Look at thyself before thou judge other

Re:Maybe we should use that tactic more often... (2, Insightful)

dananderson (1880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111068)

That's funny. Besides China/HK/Taiwan/Korea/Japan, I get a lot of spam from EU. Especially Denmark and Spain.

However, at least some of the EU and USA ISPs respond to spam complaints. None of the Asian countries above have responded to spam complaints. It's not just a language problem either. I get (or used to get before my spam filters went up) technical requests (in English) from Asia as the result of USENET postings and FAQs I wrote.

I'm hopeful that one or more of the Asian countries above will clean up my act and I can remove my spam filters.

Re:Maybe we should use that tactic more often... (1)

BJH (11355) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111162)

It's not just a language problem either. I get (or used to get before my spam filters went up) technical requests (in English) from Asia as the result of USENET postings and FAQs I wrote.

...and OBVIOUSLY the people spamming you are the same ones who are asking you questions. I mean, it just stands to reason, doesn't it?

Re:Maybe we should use that tactic more often... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111082)

Who is other? Must be some person if he/she is in a class of his/her own!

Re:Maybe we should use that tactic more often... (2, Insightful)

cyroth (103888) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111144)

Well it didn't take a very long time for this to get noticed and actioned by the Chinese. Just goes to prove, fear is a very powerful tool.

why dont' they use it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111042)

u'd think they could just use this as a sort of twisted way to isolate their people from the rest of the world...
i'd certainly rather they just clean up the isps though.

China just doesn't get it. (4, Interesting)

Joe Groff (11149) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111043)

The Chinese government has constantly shown how terribly naïve they are with regards to the Internet.
  • They want to reap the commercial benefits without accepting the other consequences of a global computer network: namely, the inevitably open society the Internet promotes. Their feeble attempts at firewalling and sheltering their people are eventually going to collapse under the insurmountable weight of the reality that information wants to be free.
  • They want to use email, but can't accept that people don't want crap to be mass-mailed to them. This is a sure sign that China's only interest in the Internet is monetary, and that it is our duty to block off abusive .cn mail servers to show them that this bullshit doesn't play on the open Internet.
China's always going to be in an awkward situation with regards to the Internet as long as they cling to their obsolete totalitarian, isolationist regime. Write your senators and tell them that all this dicking around with China is a farce, and must be stopped. Don't allow them on the Free Internet until they become a Free State, I say.

Thanks, Added to Troll Library (-1)

Commienst (102745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111084)

Dear Troll,

We are plesed to inform you that, after careful consideration , we have accepted your troll into the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

You show a masterful skill at trolling.

Thank you for your time and your contribution.

Er, thanks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111100)

But that wasn't a troll...

-jcg

Re:China just doesn't get it. (5, Interesting)

PoshSpod (549405) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111150)

China's always going to be in an awkward situation with regards to the Internet as long as they cling to their obsolete totalitarian, isolationist regime. Write your senators and tell them that all this dicking around with China is a farce, and must be stopped. Don't allow them on the Free Internet until they become a Free State, I say.

Oh, boy. Where to begin? I think my favourite part of you post was the last line. You misunderstand the idea of freedom if you assume that you must be free to oppress others. China has a dictatorial regime, true; but if the internet is free then it should be embrace it, just as it embraces pornographers, neo-Nazis, gun nuts, religious zealots and all of the other dreadful things that we tolerate under the banner of free-speech but really wish weren¦t there.

Second point is this idea that we can force change onto countries by ignoring them. The Americans don't seem to have learned much from Castro in the last 30 years. If change is to be brought to China then the only options we have available are

to allow it to come fully into the free world and evolve

war. I know which option I prefer.

spam (3, Funny)

trelaneopn (563678) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111045)

dear america,
this legitimate e-mail is not spam, it is a message from china to the united states, that has been repeated 5 billion times, once for each citizen in our overpopulated ineptly run third world country.
due to the fact that we're too poor to build nuclear missles, submarines aircraft carriers etc, we have instead come up with the following excellent products for you
1. PORN! (hell EVERYONE LOVES PORN)
2. herbal viagra, (ancient chinese formula)
3. aluminum siding (houseing value-added feature)
4. free vacations to hong kong (beautiful city, except when it rains... a lot)
please enjoy these gifts and products courtousy of china.

this message is not spam to be removed from this mailing list...

should be ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111164)

dear america,
this legitimate e-mail not spam, it a message from china to united states, that be repeated 5 billion times, once for citizen our overpopulated ineptly runnedly third world country.
due to fact that we to poor to build nuclear missle, submarine aircrafts carrier, we have insteaded camed up with following excellent product for you
1. PORN! (hell EVERYONES LOVE PORNS)
2. herbal viagras, (vewwy owd chinese formula)
3. aluminum siding (houseing value-added feature)
4. free vacations hong kong (beauty city, except when rains... a lots)
please enjoy this gifts and products courtousy of china.

Re:should be ... (1)

trelaneopn (563678) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111241)

aah yes, pardon my grammatical error
-editor of parent comment's parent

Re:spam (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111300)

Actually I think you'll find the Chinese build very effective nuclear missiles!

China Makes a Valid Point (1)

hkhanna (559514) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111047)

People blocking servers that promote internet congestion for the betterment of the 'net? That's ridiculous. I think that's punishable by death in China.

simple solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111048)

fix ur servers get access back

Suuuuure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111050)

"Maybe now some of the lazy admins of these spam-spewing mail servers will clean up their acts."

yeah. and maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt.

Poland (0, Offtopic)

Perdo (151843) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111051)

Don't forget these assholes:

Hello from Poland!
This message is sent to 200 000 recipients.
We offer You the same mass mailing service and our prices are VERY cool!
Our 13 months experience guaranties You excellent results! Please read some short FAQ before mailing Us questions:
we use our servers - You get NO complains for sending mass messages!
we have NO targeting options at the moment
we send both plain text and HTML messages (less 20K bytes)
we do not collect replies for this messages
we can not host Your pageswe can order a domain for You
this is 100% LEGAL
we accept bank wire, WesternUnion and PayPal (buy we DISLIKE PayPal for some reasons)
Our prices:
$100 for 200`000 email messages using our mail list.
$190 for 1`000`000 email messages using Your mail list.
$250 for 1`000`000 email messages using our mail list.
$190 for 1`000`000 email messages using Your mail list.
$650 for 3`000`000 email messages using our mail list.
$550 for 3`000`000 email messages using Your mail list.
$1900 for 9`000`000 email messages using our mail list.
$1700 for 9`000`000 email messages using Your mail list.

Reply ONLY to mailings@messpro.com
Also we offer UNTARGETED checked mail lists:
$100 for 2'000'000 checked mail mail addresses
$400 for 10'000'000 checked mail mail addresses
$900 for 25'000'000 checked mail mail addresses

Reply ONLY to mailings@messpro.com Best wishes, Teador Smornij

Re:Poland (2)

jedrek (79264) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111105)

What the hell does this have to do with Poland, other than the second line?

jedrek

first (shifman) post (damn there goes my karma) (1)

trelaneopn (563678) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111057)

hey, can we extradite bernard shifman [petemoss.com] to china... he can teach them proper e-mail ettiquet, then life will be good again.

Let's not forget... (5, Funny)

Murmer (96505) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111059)

...that as much as you might joke that spammers should be lined up and shot, that gets a lot less funny when you're dealing with the Chinese government.

Re:Let's not forget... (-1)

I.T.R.A.R.K. (533627) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111072)

"that gets a lot less funny

Are you sure about that? These are spammers we're talking about.

Re:Let's not forget... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111091)

Not only are they spammers, they're chink spammers. All the more reason to shoot them.

Re:Let's not forget... (1)

akma (22089) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111219)

Actually, it gets real funny then. Its about time some goverment gets the balls to shoot a few spammers. If only they'd do a live stream broadcast of it and set up an archive page...

Re:Let's not forget... (4, Funny)

ThatComputerGuy (123712) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111309)

And mass mail us all so we know about it!

Oh, wait..

Common sense! NO open relay = no block (5, Informative)

Romancer (19668) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111061)

If you have a problem you fix the problem.
We fixed a problem of recieving spam from their open relays by blocking them from sending to us.
We asked them to close their relays and they said no or didn't respond, so we blocked them.

Now they want us to unblock them and the answer seems fairly obvious to me. NOT until you close your relays which is why you are blocked!

Quote: "Peter Lovelock, director of Beijing-based consultancy MFC Insight, said the National People's Congress might be swayed to pass laws calling for more rigorous management of Internet-linked servers in China in order to avoid international embarrassment."

If it's such a problem that your "Chinese legislators" are getting involved they should stop complaining that they're bring punished and fix the problem.

Actual URL (5, Informative)

wenzi (6465) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111069)

Here is the actual article ( if you can read chinese, sorry ) http://www.southcn.com/it/ittout/200203050573.htm

The Chinese (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111077)

Knowing the Chinese, spammers will be executed.
Mayber the US should follow that example. Spamming should be a capital offense.

Spamming = TREASON (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111083)

Clearly, China simply needs to define spamming (and having mail servers with open relays) as treason. Then, they get to execute the spammers (or spam enablers), and bill their families for the bullets.

Maybe ... (4, Insightful)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111096)

"Maybe now some of the lazy admins of these spam-spewing mail servers will clean up their acts."

Maybe some of these admins ARE the spam-spewing individuals.

~LoudMusic

A group of Chinese legislators? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111097)

Come on, don't be so high-sounding... they're just "Delegates to China's parliament", a bunch of >60 old bumps, all they do is to bullshit and then clap their hands, then a 'law' is passed! (If you've seen the news footage you'll know what I mean)

Them Legislators?!

Spam blocks are unfair (4, Insightful)

PoshSpod (549405) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111106)

I know that I've said things like this last time this was discussed but these 'spam' blocks are unfair and deny the point of the internet.

I live in Hong Kong and because of them I can¦t get e-mail through to some of my family and friends. Now I¦m a decent person, I post to /. send in bug reports for open-source software and I¦ve never spammed anyone in my life but I still have to suffer these restrictions.

The whole joy of the internet is that anyone can communicate with anyone else. If an ISP were to put a blanket ban on certain websites because a few of them throw up annoying adverts there would be outcry. Freedom of communication is considered important enough that people just have to deal with the annoying side effects themselves. Why is this not the case with e-mail as well?

I hope that China does something about spam mail but this really is not the way to encourage it.

Re:Spam blocks are unfair (1)

macrom (537566) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111130)

So why can you not sign up for a free Hotmail or Yahoo, etc. account so your e-mail isn't actually coming from Hong Kong. Are those sites blocked off from your access point over there?

greg

Re:Spam blocks are unfair (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111140)

Intern-Guy: Maybe you could take pills for that.
Pregnant-Dilbert: stop trying to solve my problems. I just wanted to be empathetic. Why are you always trying to solve my problems.

Of course it is unfair (3, Interesting)

Per Abrahamsen (1397) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111159)

but please blame the spammers, and the lazy admins who don't stop them, not their victims.

Spam basically makes email useless, it is certainly not the near real-time media it used to be. Blacklisting can make email almost useable again. Of course, it is nowhere near as useful as before the spammers took over, but at least the signal no longer totally drowns in the noice.

Unless something effective is done to spam at the political level, we probably soon have to either give up email entirely, or switch to whitelists. With whitelists, only people in your address book can send mail to you directly. Other people may be able to come through after various kinds of verification. This will cut of many once useful features of email, but at least some core functionality will survive.

Please do not blame the people who try to make email survive in spite of the spam onslaught. Without these people, email would die.

Re:Spam blocks are unfair (1)

Jumperalex (185007) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111165)

Well I'm not sure if I can totally disassociate what I'm about to say with the idea that I do agree that as a whole I would rather the internet were left "on" rather than having parts of it shut off.

But to speak generally to your statement that what is being done isn't right because it makes life for you a bit more difficult:

Well that is sort of the point. The idea is that eventually the folks who don't have a stake in the offending activity (spam in this case) and who don't feel that it is all that bad, might realize how offending it is to others and do something about it.

So now not only am I calling for the end of open relays but so are your. Of course it does in effect boil down to a form of black mail which as I'm writing this I have a bit of a problem with. But the idea is that it forces people who might otherwise be dispassionate about a subject to become passionate.

Re:Spam blocks are unfair (1)

kyras (472503) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111212)

Come, now. This is the same idea behind the US embargo on Cuba. And what that's done there is make the poor people (i.e., the masses) in Cuba less capable of doing anything about Castro, while not hurting Castro in the least. What would help Cuba out of their problems is more money; I think a more open society follows the bourgeosie. Just my opinion, perhaps. OTOH, China is a different animal in the whole SPAM (tm) debate. I'm not saying they shouldn't be blocked, I'm just saying that your rationale for blocking them has a bit of a flaw.

Re:Spam blocks are unfair (5, Insightful)

dubl-u (51156) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111183)

I live in Hong Kong and because of them I can¦t get e-mail through to some of my family and friends. Now I¦m a decent person, I post to /. send in bug reports for open-source software and I¦ve never spammed anyone in my life but I still have to suffer these restrictions.

I'm a decent person, but for years I've lived in bad neighborhoods. Many of my friends aren't comfortable visiting me. Is that unfair? Or just reasonable behavior?

Regardless, my whining doesn't make them come visit me more often. So a few years back I moved to a slightly better area and I do what I can to make my new 'hood safer still. Perhaps you could try that? Given your location and your language skills, you could be a big help to the anti-spam community.

I hope that China does something about spam mail but this really is not the way to encourage it.

That's a nice thought, but utterly wrong. Something like this is the only way to encourage it. Chinese spammers have been a problem for quite a while, but a gazillion complaints had as much effect as the chirping of sparrows. It's only widespread blocking that has made the government sit up and take notice.

It's sad that it had to come to this, but the only lesson to learn is that ignoring spam doesn't make anything better; the longer you wait, the more painful it is to clean up.

Re:Spam blocks are unfair (2)

krogoth (134320) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111256)

Softhome [softhome.net] has free POP3/SMTP service. If you have a mail server you could set up restricted relaying.

Then do something about it (2)

Skapare (16644) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111268)

It's also unfair that Chinese mail servers leave the door open for spammers, whether in China or outside, to send huge volumes of junk. It's also unfair that people like yourself who live in China are not doing more to get the problem fixed. The news article this whole thread started from does indicate some people are recognizing a problem, although they still don't seem to fully understand it. Maybe it will be hard for you to get the Chinese government to crack down on the open relays. It won't be any easier for someone from the United States to do so.

Hmmm... (5, Insightful)

Coffee Warlord (266564) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111107)

Does anyone else find it ironic that China is complaining about internet traffic restrictions?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

This has potential. (3, Funny)

MAXOMENOS (9802) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111114)

Hm. "Send spam, get shot in the back of the neck." I like the sound of this.

and then... (2)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111231)

...charge the cost of the bullet to the spammer's family! :)

I like it. It's...elegant.

Re:This has potential. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111313)

I think you should be shot for your lame, crappy web page. Idiot!

I wish (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111120)

some one would make the spammers pay $0.01 for each spam mail sent...

It sounds like constipation to me... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111124)

All those emails trying to be sent but they can't because they are blocked... Keep on doing this for a while and they may just blow up.

On a different tone, if we can't ourselves pass any meaningful legislation here, why do you expect them to clean up? Given the fact 99% of the fucking spammers are from right here, the gun loving US of A, the problem with the open relays in China is just a side effect. If we had the proper laws here, maybe Sendmail would not come with relay disabled by default. We would all spend all the time dealing with this crap doing something more useful.

Chinese laws: genuine effort, but ineffectual (4, Interesting)

dananderson (1880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111129)

"[In the] People's Daily, Xu Detian called upon the National People's Congress to pass a law banning the sending of junk e-mail."

This reminds me of my days in grad school in the early 1980s. I had two Chinese roommates. They subscribed to People's Daily to learn English (even though it had spelling and grammar errors, it was probably a good idea).

Anyway, after a while the paper began to sound repeative. It would continaully brag about some "new effort" to do something such as "end corruption" or "end pollution" or "improve education." That was done by passing laws saying "don't do this" or issuing a directive to "do that." Nothing would actually hapen, it appears, as I would read about a very similar effort a few months later.

So, although the Chinese are beginning to realize they need to do something about spam, don't hold your breath. Hopefully, they will come around some year to doing something effective . . . such as having ISPs actually respond to abuse reports and close open relays, for example.

Chinese racial slurs (-1, Troll)

Metrollica (552191) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111132)

Since many of us are angry at the Chinese, I thought it would be helpful to provide a list of racial slurs directed at them. Feel free to incorporate these into your posts.

Bamboo Coon

Chale

Chiegro

Chinaman

Chinig

Chinina

Chink-a-billy

Chinkamo

Chino

Chonky

Choo-Choo

Cookie

Coolie

Dim Sum

El Chino

Forty-Fiver

General Tso

Honger

Lizard

Moe

Mook

Kung-fu

Panface



Important Stuff:Please try to keep posts on topic.Try to reply to other peoplecommentsinstead of starting new threads.Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simplyduplicatingwhat has already been said.Use a clear subject that describes what your message isabout.Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments mightbeImportantStuff:Please try to keep posts on topic.Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads.Read other people's messages before posting yourown to avoid simplyduplicatingwhat has already been saidUse a clear subject that describes what your message isabout.Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might bemoderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting yourthreshold on the UserPreferences Page)Problems regarding accounts orcomment posting shouldbesenttoCowboyNeal.moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting yourthreshold on the User Preferences Page)Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent toCowboyNeal.

Re:Chinese racial slurs (0)

toiletsalmon (309546) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111160)

That's not nice! But it's funny as hell! :)

Re:Chinese racial slurs (1)

PoshSpod (549405) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111184)

And for the record, we are, at least in the South, Gwai-Lo. It means something like Ghost-Man or White-Devil depending on the translation from the Cantonese.

Needless to say, like all good insults (the elephant logo for the Republicans and the word 'Tory' in the UK) it has been adopted by the ex-pats out here as an affictionate nick-name.

Sing the song that keeps on giving (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111134)

ME Chinese
ME Play Joke
ME Go PeePee In
YOUR Coke

Har Har Har!

Korea (3, Informative)

nzhavok (254960) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111142)

is the country that spams me the most. Usually get between 1 and 10 per day from there, half of them porn. I mean spam is bad enough but Korean porn? Give me a break please!

Probably along the line of china, the admins probably don't speak english or else couldn't give a shit to stop the spammers because I just keep getting it.

Re:Korea (1)

odaiwai (31983) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111265)

Mmmmm, Korean porn...

Re:Korea porn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111304)

Forget it...you get stronger pips on the today show.

Their idea of porn is a suggestive pose by a styrofoam clothes dummie.

Tiptoe, tiptoe, spam (5, Insightful)

JohnBE (411964) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111148)

Why do we always tiptoe around China's sensibilities?

We aid them block so called subversive sites from their entire country, we tolerate crackdowns on their populace, we paper over the facts, we supress demonstration when their officials visit our countries, we tolerate the occational nuclear secret heading their way and we've forgotton about Tienemen Square.

Why? Are they as bigger threat as Russia was? Are they capable of collapsing the Western economies with the stroke of a pen? No! Their near slave labor, poor working conditions and semi-rural economy is the cheapest place to make our goods. That's all. If you want the support of the west just open up your market, keep prices cheap and keep production up.

This spam blocking is another way of making China comfortable. Maybe we are doing the right thing and eventually (because of the increased trade) they'll become just like us. We'll just have to wait and see.

Run over the insecure servers with tanks (1)

marvinglenn (195135) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111221)

from the article:

"The majority of the junk mail (is) not created in China, so why (should) they block mail from China?" said Zeng Xiaozhen, a professor at Jilin University in the northeastern province of Jilin.

Obviously starting out on a clue-by-four free foundation.

He said spam was a global issue and China should make a law to punish creators of junk e-mail.

Just what we (anyone who isn't China) want... China violating our sorverignty with their laws. Well, I may be open to extraditing a few select spammers.

Peter Lovelock, director of Beijing-based consultancy MFC Insight, said the National People's Congress might be swayed to pass laws calling for more rigorous management of Internet-linked servers in China in order to avoid international embarrassment.

Now here's something with a real clue. Them passing laws on their own citizens to secure their own computers. Maybe they'll run over the clueless admins and insecure servers with tanks.

I still think the private sector solution is just fine, though. "deny 202.0.0.0/8" A few lines like that seems to solve the problem.

Of course, the amount of time it will take to be delisted should be equal to the amount of time it took them to fix the problem. (IANS) See ya in 2010, the year we make contact.

Re:Run over the insecure servers with tanks (1)

JohnBE (411964) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111294)

This is interesting because IIRC the negotiations between China and the WTO (17th September 2001), concluded with China saying:

"China will provide non-discriminatory treatment to all WTO Members. All foreign individuals and enterprises, including those not invested or registered in China, will be accorded treatment no less favourable than that accorded to enterprises in China with respect to the right to trade."

"Within three years of accession all enterprises will have the right to import and export all goods and trade them throughout the customs territory with limited exceptions."

"price controls will not be used for purposes of affording protection to domestic industries or services providers."

Does blocking spam count as anti-competative or discriminatory treatment of foreign compentitors?

Re:Run over the insecure servers with tanks (2)

Skapare (16644) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111311)

202.0.0.0/8 contains IP assignments to many other countries. Why not go get your own list of what IP addresses actually are assigned to China.

China needs to understand the problem first (2)

Skapare (16644) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111169)

According to a report last month on Wired News, a growing number of network administrators in the United States and Europe have begun blocking e-mails from servers in China, Taiwan and Korea.

I've been blocking China (including Hong Kong), Taiwan, and Korea, for nearly 2 years now.

"The majority of the junk mail (is) not created in China, so why (should) they block mail from China?" said Zeng Xiaozhen, a professor at Jilin University in the northeastern province of Jilin. He said spam was a global issue and China should make a law to punish creators of junk e-mail.

First of all, I am not blocking mail from China; I am blocking mail from SMTP connections with a source address in the IP assignments to China, regardless of where it comes from. My preferred method of filtering is to prevent the delivery of spam in the first place. That means I block it by IP address or validated domain name. Mr. Zeng Xiaozhen needs to understand that the issue is about open relays, which intermingle mail originating from China, and mail being relayed by spammers.

Separately, in a signed article posted on the Web site of China's party mouthpiece newspaper, the People's Daily, Xu Detian called upon the National People's Congress to pass a law banning the sending of junk e-mail.

More of the spam from Chinese mail servers originates from other countries because the servers are open relays. They need to outlaw open relay servers, perhaps with some very harsh penalties.

Also, since most of the open relays are older versions of Microsoft Exchange Server, it appears that software piracy is a big key here. I would assume that software systems Microsoft has sold in China came with documentation in Chinese. Pirate software often comes with little or no documentation. And what it does come with may not be the Chinese version in the first place, making it useless unless the administrator reads English (assuming most pirated software has some of that). If the Chinese government were to crack down on not only misconfigurations of mail servers, but also the use of any pirated commercial software (especially that connected to the internet), I think it would go a long ways to solving these problems. If the businesses doing this cannot afford a licensed copy of Microsoft Exchange server, maybe they need to switch to a system like Linux and use one of the Exchange-like clones, or ordinary mail software.

Overzealous Spamguarding (5, Insightful)

Francis (5885) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111173)

You know, it wasn't that long ago that someone pointed out how hard it is to be removed from spam lists [slashdot.org] .

That aside, I've always wondered why people get so upset over spam. It's not that hard to hit the delete button. I get about 10 spam mails a day. It takes about 1/2 a second to read the subject, realize it's spam, and hit the delete button. Over the course of a year, I lose 30 minutes. That's not such a big deal to me.

What does irritate me is I'm a victim of spamguards, on both ends. My web hosting service (yahoo) for unknown reasons is listed on 1 spam list. I've tried - there seems to be no way off the list. So, occasionally, I run into an institution which has walled me off.

What makes me even more angry, is that my school where I did my undergrad, (UWaterloo) has implemented global "spam protection." And so now, I can't receive emails from some of my contacts.

It's about the right to choose. I want to be able to control IF my email gets spam filtered. I'm willing to give up those 30 minutes a year in order to communicate with people. As someone pointed out, that's the beauty of the Internet. If I want spam filtering software, I'll install it myself. I don't want someone else to make that choice for me. We, as users, are losing our freedom too. I'm shocked that noone seems to notice or care.

Re:Overzealous Spamguarding (2, Insightful)

Rhys (96510) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111189)

It's their system, it's their right to choose not yours. Run your own linux box and accept spam from who you choose. Until that point, bitch no more.

Re:Overzealous Spamguarding (2, Interesting)

metsfan (549341) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111272)

Bandwidth isn't free. Spam takes up bandwidth. Sure, it doesn't take up a lot of yours, and you're probably paying by time, not by usage, but not everyone is. Major backbones get bogged down in it. AT&T's Worldnet e-mail had delays of up to a day because of spam. It gets expensive. It's not simply "deleting 10 messages a day," for anyone except the end user.

That understates the problem (2, Interesting)

phr2 (545169) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111277)

First of all, deleting a spam message takes much more than 1/2 second if you count starting up the mailer every time you see the "you have mail" message and it turns out to be newly arrived spam.

Second, if you get 10/day, you actually don't have much of a spam problem compared to usenet regulars etc. I get hundreds of pieces of spam per day which is less than a lot of other people get. I manage to filter about 75% of it but the rest still takes much more than 30 minutes/year to deal with.

Third, even if it's just 30 minutes a year, which 30 minutes is it? A pinprick to the butt is much less annoying than one to the eyeball. An incoming email is an interruption almost like a phone call, breaking your train of thought and interfering with your work. A 5-second interruption several times a day is much worse than, say, no spam at all during the entire year except you're required to spend 2 hours on April 15 (tax day) looking at spam.

My filters get rid of lots of spam but occasionally catch a legitimate message, so once a week or so I spend a few minutes looking over the filtered messages. Batching them like that reduces the spam annoyance factor a lot, but it destroys the immediacy of the legitimate email.

The reason yahoo is on spam lists isn't unknown--it's obvious. Insane amounts of spam comes from yahoo addresses and has no signs of slowing. The obvious solution for you is get an address from a more responsible provider.

Re:Overzealous Spamguarding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111282)

My mother, who is 76, gets a huge amount of spam in her mailbox, simply by being on innocuous email lists. This spam includes the most outrageous porno spamvertising ... This has upset her quite a bit. Strangely enough, she doesn't get porno flyers through snail mail. Do you really think this spam is acceptable? Is it really OK to get porno spam all the time and have to delete it?

So far, that's just an argument for spam filtering on the personal level. The global argument is simply that spam is causing mail outages (AT&T Worldnet email was down or very slow for a day recently) - the world depends too much on email these days to let it get sludged up with spam.

Re:Overzealous Spamguarding (5, Insightful)

Lish (95509) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111333)

It's not that hard to hit the delete button. I get about 10 spam mails a day. It takes about 1/2 a second to read the subject, realize it's spam, and hit the delete button.

That's all well and good, until you start getting your email on your cellphone or wireless PDA, and you're paying for every byte you receive. Then, we're talking real costs beyond just the time wasted.

If you had to pay for every one of those 10 spams a day, would you be as willing to put up with it?

A Possible Explanation.... (1)

johnthorensen (539527) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111175)

For why asian toilets make you squat:

Here we have a country that has made an industry out of filtering out evil western thought, yet complains when we filter out their evil spam.

Perhaps they install their toilets the same way they do their firewalls - backwards.

-JT

Korea anyone? (4, Interesting)

JPriest (547211) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111181)

I'd say about 80% of my spam is from Korean schools. Here is a post from an abuse NG with a possible explanation for it. Myself and many others have tried a # of times to contact some of these schools for the last few months or so with no success.

Subject: Re: Korean Schools Proxy Project?

From Joel:
"> It is possible that Appleton, Wisconsin, High School has an open connect proxy on port 3128 and the Tuscaloosa Unified School District has an anonymous mail relay.
But, apparently, one group wired every K-12 school in South Korea and they made the same goddam error EVERYWHERE."

RE: from Rob
Thanks for explaining this, Joel. Somebody sent me a couple dozen spams (morts, credit card, work at home) in the last week, each relayed through a different Korean elementary school. None bothers to record the originating IP. Amazing.

A letter to the ambassador is in order.

WTF? (2)

wirefarm (18470) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111188)

"The majority of the junk mail (is) not created in China, so why (should) they block mail from China?" said Zeng Xiaozhen, a professor at Jilin University

Because it's being relayed through your servers, Zeng.

(Don't you just *hate* it when people just don't get basic concepts like this?)

Mr. Xiaozhen, Please take an hour, RTFM and close your open relays. Tell your friends to do the same. Until then, get yourself a Hotmail account - you're gonna need it.

Hello world (-1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111273)

Bigphat helmet Grim reaper

I wear socks.

You are a banana whore.

But Tom, football's only harvested in the Winter.

One more jalopy for a rind of soot.

Crappin' cabolonis, boys! Those Nips mean business!

FIX MY PRINTER

perhaps... (1)

smash (1351) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111287)

...they should do what everybody else has to, and secure their frigging e-mail servers.

For god's sake, its not difficult, and it will likely save them money.

IF the spam is coming from the ISP's customer base then they have grounds for terminating the account(s) for breaching (spelling?) their terms of service.

smash(*sigh* ... eta from new email address to receiving pr0n spam = ~2weeks)

Why not default to SMTP blocking at ISPs? (3, Interesting)

mosschops (413617) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111290)

Recently I was helping diagnose a problem with mail delivery to a friends machine. It soon became apparent that incoming connections to the SMTP port were being blocked. After contacting the ISP it was confirmed that it was a default anti-spam measure, but they'd be willing to test the server to ensure relaying was disabled, and then unblock the port.

If Chinese ISPs were /forced/ to do the same thing it'd make clearing up the mess a lot easier. Legitimate, non-relaying servers would be opened back up, and it would leave the accidental servers inaccesible to spammers around the world. In fact, wouldn't this be a sensible policy for ISPs around the world?

alternative solution... (3, Funny)

smash (1351) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111307)

They want their own network that they can control, censor, and make inaccessible from the outside?

/me hands china a few subnets... 192.168.0.0/16, 172.16.0.0/20, and 10.0.0.0/8 :P

smash

Wonder how bad spamming in China is? PLEASE HELP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3111319)

I got such email once a while:

From: 1@2.com
To: my@email.com
Subject: Email Address CD

Looking for database of great business opportunities?
1.7 millions Hong Kong and 1.2 millions worldwide Email Addresses.
Latest 1.7 millions Hong Kong Email Adresses as of Feb 2002
900 thousands China Email Addresses, frequent update!
As followed(no duplication):

hotmail.com 700 thousands
hongkong.com 330 thousands
netviagator.com 170 thousands
36.com 100 thousands
tom.com 70 thousands
yahoo.com.hk 50 thousands
packfic.net.hk 50 thousands
hkabc.net 50 thousands
hutchcity.com 50 thousands
Others 50 thousands

CD contains email addresses in .TXT format and in .DBF format for storing FAX and companies name.
Hong Kong email addresses are sorted by servers, other are sorted by year, profession and country.
Others include (a list of many countries)

CD comes with programs automatically delivery 50 thousands emails per hour!

If you are interested please call (852) 90305831 Mr. Siu. (District code of Hong Kong is 852)
"Will not answer calls without caller display"
Transaction can be done at Kowloon Tong KCR station, 10 mins arrival, or other KCR stations, or other places. Can also hand delivery to your place.

http://www.taiposiu.bobsville.com/ [bobsville.com]

(Note: above is a direct tranlation from Chinese. Is that anything I could do to stop him? Note there's no law here against him doing that. :/)

PLEASE MOD ME UP SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN SEE THIS!

you can't legislate all your problems (1)

PrometheuSx11 (36115) | more than 12 years ago | (#3111326)

There is no way the government of china (or
anyone) can effectively legislate and enforce
anti spam laws. When lazy admins find them-
selves getting their whole subnets blocked
by everyone else because of spam, maybe they'll
fix their stupid mail servers!
This is a classic example of free market/natural
law in action. No one wants to limit china's
connectivity, in fact, its more advantageous
(theoretically) to be as connected as possible.
And when they clean up their act, everyone will
start playing nice again.
Trying to write laws to counter these negative
reactions to irresponsible networking will only
reinforce the problem.

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