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C

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the self-graded dept.

Programming 299

Craig Maloney submitted this review of Addison-Wesley's entry in the tough field of books on C (book title: C), and pulls no punches in comparing it to others. He says it's slightly above average, but that "experienced programmers will likely pass on this book." Read the complete review below for his reasoning.

Lost in the Company of Giants

It's hard not to take a book like C and compare it to such acclaimed and trusted books as K&R, Expert C Programming, and other lesser known, but equally good tomes. Unfortunately C doesn't really compare with many of the other classic books covering the C language. For starters, the writing in this book isn't quite up to the same caliber as the other books. Part of the problem with this book is language. English does not appear to be the author's native language. There are sentences in this book that require a few glances to glean the full meaning. C is difficult enough to present without a language barrier introducing more problems. Another problem is organization. The ideas presented at the beginning of the book are muddled and disjointed, with multiple ideas introduced but not formally explained until later. Beginners will have a terrible time working through this book without becoming quickly confused, and experienced programmers will likely pass on this book in favor of the other well-known books.

Not All Bad

The book is not all bad, however. The examples in the book are plentiful and are based on tried-and-true examples found in books like K&R. There are some idioms that are used in the examples that will irk the more structured programmers (not using braces in certain areas being the biggest example), but most of the examples are pretty good. Also, the explanations of the more advanced topics are relatively good considering how confusing the more basic material is. Memory management is explained well, with clear diagrams (although the programs are a bit confusing without a careful eye).

So What's in it for Me?

Addison-Wesley is clearly marketing this book to the same crowd that purchases quick-learning books. Unfortunately beginners purchasing this book will quickly find themselves lost amid the confusing descriptions in this book. Those who manage to muddle through will find some tasty bits of information locked inside, but the work involved in getting there outweighs the rewards. Most programmers will probably want to leaf through a copy of this book before purchasing it to make sure they'll get the most out of it.


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C#? (-1)

David P (170482) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112314)

NOT a first post!

Ralph Jewhater Nader Read This Comment (-1)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112321)

Ralph Jewhater Nader Read This Comment
Ralph, I wanted to do this in this most potentially embarassing
way possible, and I figured doing it here and now, in front of a
quarter of a million strangers was as good a way as any.
I hate you more then I can describe within the limits of this
tiny little comment.
We've lived without you for many years now, and I've known for
most of that time that I wanted to spend my life without you.
Enough rambling. Won't you just fuck off and die ?

Update 15 minutes 30 seconds later:

Subj: "Arg", message body: "Dolf. You made me cry. :)"
Hazah! He's getting pissed! :)

whoa (-1)

medicthree (125112) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112319)

I'll subscribe. No, really. No, I mean it.

don't waste your time (-1, Troll)

avandesande (143899) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112324)

Why waste your time when you can buy the Kernighan & Ritchie book?

Re:don't waste your time (-1)

Crapflooder (554043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112358)

can i have fries with that?

Re:don't waste your time (4, Informative)

geoswan (316494) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112403)

If you are reading this discussion because you are planning to learn C, know that not only is K&R's book a very fine book, but there is geek cachet in being able to say "I learned C from Kernighan and Ritchie".

Re:don't waste your time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112474)

That said, if you're looking for a less expensive book, I'm a big fan of the WROX series. The writers tend to have a good grasp of the english language (which many authors of programming books, sadly, don't), and use worthwhile examples. They're written for folks who don't know anything at all about programming, for the most part, and they're quite good. They also run about $35, or about half of what most of the "real" programming books cost.

*shrug* I also found that most of the really good (read, popular) ones didn't explain things in a way I understood, but that could just be me. For instance, I find O'Reilly's books to be excellent as reference manuals, but terrible teachers.

Re:don't waste your time (0)

avandesande (143899) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112523)

The think that sux about rox books is the lifeless faces of the authors that stare back at you. There is a guy at work here who actually put a cover on the book so he doesn't have to see them. I'd rather see a yak or something than those jerks!

Re:don't waste your time (1)

ProlificSage (564094) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112670)

...if you're looking for a less expensive book, I'm a big fan of the WROX series

Having learned VB and Java first, and having read many books on computer architecture, I would suggest that the only book you need to learn C is K&R. The Wrox books have too much fluff for someone who just wants to get down to what's important.

In addition to K&R, The C Standard Library by Plauger is also quite useful. If you're not the type of programmer that can pick up language basics in a few days with a good reference, then, by all means, get something with less substance and more hand-holding. I also managed to find a book on nothing but pointers in C, but, unfortunately, do not have it close by to pass on the title. It's somewhat old, and may be out of print, anyway.

Re:don't waste your time (5, Funny)

elefantstn (195873) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112625)

Not only that, but pulling a dog-eared, bookmarked, highlighted copy of K&R off your bookshelf has the panty-removing power of playing your band's seven inches or flashing the keys to your '57 Corvette.

Experienced programmers (0, Troll)

Schapht (84396) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112326)

usually use man if my collegues and I are any example.

Re:Experienced programmers (2)

pizen (178182) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112386)

Experienced programmers usually use man if my collegues and I are any example.

man is good as a specific reference but I think since you are already an experienced programmer you aren't looking for a book like this one.

Re:Experienced programmers (-1)

Crapflooder (554043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112432)

R U AND YOUR COLLEAGUES HOMOSEXUAL????

AND IS THAT THE REASON WHY YOU EMPHASIZE MAN?

Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.

Acting Legend Keanu Reeves Dead at age 38 (-1)

ObitMan (550793) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112327)

Acting Legend Keanu Reeves [imdb.com] [imdb.com] was pronounced dead at the scene of a auto accident in Malibu Canyon in California, USA.
Gangly, vacant-looking young actor who has proven himself a skilled screen performer in a surprising variety of roles, from Marlon James in the 1990 docu-drama I Love You to Death [imdb.com] [imdb.com], to the enigmatic Ortiz the Dog Boy in the 1993 classic Freaked! [imdb.com] [imdb.com]
Openly Gay, Reeves never recovered professionally after the 1993 death of life partner River Phoenix [imdb.com] [imdb.com]
Memorials can be made in his name to PETA [peta-online.org] [peta-online.org]

Re:Acting Legend Keanu Reeves Dead at age 38 (-1, Flamebait)

CofWheat (464490) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112380)

Wow this funny!!! Should get a 5. Rot in hell Reeves

First post? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112334)

I clain this FP in the name of ACs everywhere.

PLP/PWP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112336)

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.gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources

F I R S T P O S T ... or maybe not (-1)

The_Fire_Horse (552422) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112337)

F irstly, let me say that I prepared this post earlier.
I had an idea a while ago and thought that I
R eally should try and add a little class to my
S lashdot first posts.
T hen I thought - ahh, fuck it - I'll just do this.

P enis is a good word to include in any first post
O bviously. It causes the elite intellectuals to
S hit their pants in case they get a hard on and starting
T ossing Off.

Super size with a Sprite, please (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112338)

.I .just .heard .the .sad .news .on .CBC .radio .Comedy .actor/writer .Alan .Thicke .was .found .dead .in .his .home .this .morning .Even .if .you .never .liked .his .work .you .can .appreciate .what .he .did .for .80's .television .Truly .a .Canadian .icon .He .will .be .missed .:( .Show .me .That .Smile .(The .Growing .Pains .Theme .Song): .Show .me .that .smile .again .Ooh .show .me .that .smile .Don't .waste .another .minute .on .your .crying .We're .nowhere .near .the .end .We're .nowhere .near .The .best .is .ready .to .begin .As .long .as .we .got .each .other .We .got .the .world .Sitting .right .in .our .hands .Baby .rain .or .shine .All .the .time .We .got .each .other .Sharing .the .laughter .and .love .The .average .Joe .Q .Slashdot .reader .may .read .slashdot .at .negative .1 .He .rightly .so .thinks .some .1 .is .underrated .and .actually .some .of .it .is .very .good .stuff .However .he .gets .quickly .annoyed .by .the .negative .1 .page .widenings .and .simply .moves .his .threshold .to .0 .or .1 .So .now .you .have .all .the .regular ."good .citizens .of .slashdot" .reading .slashdot .at .higher .thresholds .So .nobody .is .reading .at .negative .1 .Now .Crap .Flounderson/CmdErtaco .says .his .intention .is .to .destroy .slashdot .However .it's .obvious .his .attention .is .just .to .flaunt .his .own .egomuch .like .the .numerous .linux .zealots .because .page .widening .no .longer .works .as .everyone .has .found .the .workaround .to .go .to .a .higher .threshold .That .would .be .fine .if .it .weren't .for .the .fact .that .page .widening .is .having .an .ADVERSE .affect .to .the .time .honored .art .of .trolling .Trolls .post .at .negative .1 .to .be .seen .If .noone .sees .their .work .trolls .get .bored .with .slashdot .So .what .page .widening .is .essentially .doing .is .running .off .the .trolls .And .this .is .why .it .won't .be .fixed .CmdrTaco .y .slashdot .wins .The .trolls .have .run .off .and .all .the ."upstanding" .citizens .of .slashdot .are .reading .and .posting .at .higher .thresholds .This .is .hardly .contributing .to .the .destruction .of .slashdot .The .average .Joe .Q .Slashdot .reader .may .read .slashdot .at .negative .1 .He .rightly .so .thinks .some .1 .is .underrated .and .actually .some .of .it .is .very .good .stuff .However .he .gets .quickly .annoyed .by .the .negative .1 .page .widenings .and .simply .moves .his .threshold .to .0 .or .1 .So .now .you .have .all .the .regular ."good .citizens .of .slashdot" .reading .slashdot .at .higher .thresholds .So .nobody .is .reading .at .negative .1 .Now .Crap .Flounderson/CmdErtaco .says .his .intention .is .to .destroy .slashdot .However .it's .obvious .his .attention .is .just .to .flaunt .his .own .egomuch .like .the .numerous .linux .zealots .because .page .widening .no .longer .works .as .everyone .has .found .the .workaround .to .go .to .a .higher .threshold .That .would .be .fine .if .it .weren't .for .the .fact .that .page .widening .is .having .an .ADVERSE .affect .to .the .time .honored .art .of .trolling .Trolls .post .at .negative .1 .to .be .seen .If .noone .sees .their .work .trolls .get .bored .with .slashdot .So .what .page .widening .is .essentially .doing .is .running .off .the .trolls .And .this .is .why .it .won't .be .fixed .CmdrTaco .y .slashdot .wins .The .trolls .have .run .off .and .all .the ."upstanding" .citizens .of .slashdot .are .reading .and .posting .at .higher .thresholds .This .is .hardly .contributing .to .the .destruction .of .slashdot

Another review here: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112339)

Link [jpsweb.net]

Aaah... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112342)

I love a review that isn't afraid to say "don't bother"

Re:Aaah... (-1)

Crapflooder (554043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112400)

YOU ARE NOT INSIGHTFUL, YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT!

Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.

hrm (-1)

Crapflooder (554043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112345)

hrm

how much? (-1)

neal n bob (531011) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112349)

how much do I have to pay to just get the fine book reviews AND to get that free naked picture of j0n katz for becoming a subscriber? Whatever the price - it is too low.

Amazon Review (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112352)

Here is the Amazon [amazon.com] review of the book.
At least it goes into more detail...come on slashdot!

Does the world need more C books? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112353)

The world is going to C++. Yes, C has it's place, but that place (embedded code and ultra-portable stuff) is inhabited by people who think that the only book on C is K&R.

However, there seem to be many gaps in the C++ book market.

Re:Does the world need more C books? (0)

boltar (263391) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112490)

And OS kernel code
And device drivers
And games (speed)
And HUGE amounts of legacy unix , vax & mainframe
code

C aint dead yet

Re:Does the world need more C books? (-1)

OsamaBinLager (532628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112565)

However, there seem to be many gaps in the C++ book market.

That's because C++ is total garbage. What, noone told you already? That bird has flown.

More Information (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112357)

www.monkeytongue.com [monkeytongue.com]

I was looking for a C book... (2, Interesting)

rbeattie (43187) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112371)

I was just getting into C programming (specifically for a project on my Palm, but also in general using GCC like for my GBA and Linux)... And I was looking for a good C book the other day but wasn't sure (there are quite a few). I'm an experience programmer in Java and other languages, so I don't need a basic tutorial on how C works.

What I need is a book that talks about how to use C in real projects. Gochyas, how to use the STL, etc. Also, I don't really feel like using C++ which seems like too much - even though it's more similar to Java - it looks like the vast majority of apps that I want to explore and use are written just in C...

Any suggestions?

-Russ

Re:I was looking for a C book... (1, Troll)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112392)

Any suggestions?

Yes, learn what STL is before you post to Slashdot about C (and then even go on to clarify that you dont want to use C++).

Re:I was looking for a C book... (1, Flamebait)

rbeattie (43187) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112558)


Hmmm. Got me.

This is why I NEED A BOOK you asshole.

Why don't you put your ego back in your pants and answer the question if you're the fucking expert.

-Russ

Re:I was looking for a C book... (2)

jallen02 (124384) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112622)

Relax! My goodness. He was making a valid point. :-)

STL (Standard Template Library) is a C++ feature.

C does not have STL.

And as far as books I would recommend "The C Programming Language", it is well accepted as "The" book for C. ISBN: 0131103628. The authors are Kernighan and Ritchie, so the book is often referred to as K&R C. They created the language (more or less).

Combine K&R C with a good C reference manual and you should be able to do anything.

For a reference manual I recommend "C a Reference Manual", ISBN: 0133262243 . It is written by Samuel P. Harbison with Guy L. Steele. Top notch minds IMO.

Enjoy :)

Jeremy

Re:I was looking for a C book... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112629)

C - Kernighan and Ritchie's book is the standard
C++ - Stroustrup's Third Edition. Another book by the creator.

Netiquette - http://www.albion.com/netiquette

Re:I was looking for a C book... (2)

envelope (317893) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112402)

how to use the STL, etc

STL is only available in C++, and is now known as the "C++ Standard Library". While not very OO, it is heavily dependent on templates, a feature not available in C.

Re:I was looking for a C book... (more pedantry) (1)

IainHere (536270) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112532)

[cough] STL is part of the standard library. They are not the same thing. [/cough]

Re:I was looking for a C book... (-1)

CofWheat (464490) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112406)

I like C, C++ is too hard!

"As you are, I was; As I am, You will be"
Heinrich Himmler

You need to read more than you know (2)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112423)

What I need is a book that talks about how to use C in real projects. Gochyas, how to use the STL, etc. Also, I don't really feel like using C++

Not to sound arrogant, but this statement belies a need for substantial reading about C and C++, not casual reading.

Re:I was looking for a C book... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112505)

How the fuck is this a "flamebait" posting? Sure, the guy made a mistake and thought the STL was part of C, but making himself look like a moron in front of his peers should be punishment enough.

These terrorist acts of moderations will be corrected in meta-moderation.

Re:I was looking for a C book... (2)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112594)

Seeing as he has attracted large amounts of flame already one would assume the moderators are trying to indicate that he is baiting for it. The alternative is that he is so lame as to not be worth discussing (which may also be true).

Re:I was looking for a C book... (1)

ForsakenRegex (312284) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112544)

I'm an experience programmer in Java and other languages, so I don't need a basic tutorial on how C works.

C is quite different from Java in that it does not
garbage collect so you must allocate your memory
by hand. It also makes heavy use of pointers, which
is not done in Java. It is a must to learn C from the
ground up, in my opinion, so that you can get a firm
grasp of how to create and use the these lower level
techniques appropriately.

Re:I was looking for a C book... (2)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112601)

"New C Primer Plus" published by The Waite Group. There is no better instructional C book.

Re:I was looking for a C book... (2)

Hard_Code (49548) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112640)

Not to get you all confused, but Digital Mars is developing a language called D (eleet C haxxors need not comment on languages named D) which is somewhat of a cross between C++ and Java in syntax, and is a migration path away from C/C++. I'm an "enterprise" Java programmer by day, but D really impresses me...it seems to be the right step to get *general application development* off the mistake-prone and complicated C/C++ languages.

No it's not a practical suggestion (AFAIK the compiler is not fully complete and the syntax is still being refined), but it sure is interesting.

Check it out: http://www.digitalmars.com/d/

12 Step Program to Quit Slashdot (-1)

LunchLady (555057) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112373)

The Twelve Steps, originated by Alcoholics Anonymous, now applied to Slashdot. This is the spritual foundation for personal recovery from the effects of Slashaholism, not only for the slashaholic, but also for their friends and family.

Many members of 12-step recovery programs have found that these steps were not merely a way to stop commenting, reading, and retardedly clicking on every link (including all those Goatse links you fags like), but they became a guide toward a new way of life.

Step 1: Honesty
After many years of denial, recovery can begin when with one simple admission of being powerless over CmdrTaco -- for Slashaholics and their friends and family. The Goatse man also owns you, so you should admit that too.

Step 2: Faith
Have faith in the fact that if you stop now - you will be saved. Not only saved but you will never ever have to read or hear about Jon Katz again. Well, I take that back - you will hear about him again, on a legitimate news site where you read that he was finally caught and convicted to the Goatse Man chamber for raping kids.

Step 3: Surrender
A lifetime of slashdot will destroy your soul. Keep in mind that Slashdot is worthless. It does you no good and it is hurting your family. Surrender to the temptation of posting a useful article to slashdot. Surrender to the temptation of even visiting this disease.

Step 4: Soul Searching
Search your soul - why did you first come to Slashdot? WHY? What is here for you? These people are not your friends. They are disgusting dirties that give a general smell to themselves and everyone around you. You all probably notice it when you go places at people look at you funny. It's because you smell like shit.

Step 5: Integrity
Integrity. Not much more needs to be said here. Of course to have integrity one must not smell, and one must have a positive self image. This is also to say - you cannot be the dirty hippie you want to be. So, stop praying to your sun crystals and take a shower.

Step 6: Acceptance
Accept that you will never visit the Slashdot site again. Katz wants you around because you are most likely 14 and he digs little kids.

Step 7: Humility
Practice some humility in your life. Know your place - it is not being a bottom rung goatse link follower at slashdot. The sooner you break the chains of slashdot the sooner you can raise yourself out of the gutter.

Step 8: Willingness
Making a list of those harmed before coming into recovery may sound simple. Becoming willing to actually make those amends is the difficult part. Think of what your parents think about you...are they proud of their dirty anti-shower homosexual hippie child? What about your friends - and not your imaginary friends you fuck hippies. The trees are not alive.

Step 9: Forgiveness
Making amends may seem like a bitter pill to swallow, but for those serious about recovery it can be great medicine for the spirit and soul. Once you have stopped visiting Slashdot - you should take the steps to appologize to your friends (not your imaginary friends, fags) and your family about what an ass you have been over the past X months/years at slashdot. Tell them you are sorry and you didn't know. Tell them you were sucked in my the Goatse Man's ass chamber.

Step 10: Maintenance
Nobody likes to admit to being wrong. But it is absolutely necessary to maintain spiritual progress in recovery. You've visited slashdot and actively engaged in the slashdot moderation system. While this makes you a complete flaming homosexual - there is still hope. You've done wrong in the past - let's make the future a brighter and better place, for everyone.

Step 11: Making Contact
Break the bonds of slashdot that hold you prisoner. You can simply GO OUTSIDE! You fuck hippies could probably use the fresh air - at least it would give your parents a chance to clear out the old smelly air within your room.

Step 12: Service
As a community service. Stop using the internet for at least 1 year. Why you ask? You do this because you have committed sins against the internet community by actively being a part of slashdot. This year off will give you time to reflect about what you have done and about who you have hurt. Also, keep in mind - by the time your year is up - there is no way in hell Slashdot will be online. For one, Jon Katz will surely have been found raping children in the slashdot offices which will destroy the company. If not Katz then the website will fail with it's to be introduced subscription services. Not only will the temptation of slashdot be gone - but the year off of the internet will give you a chance to meet real people - and actually make friends.

Follow these steps are your life will be rich and full.

W.??? (-1)

Crapflooder (554043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112383)

.???

!!!AH!

Only two C books needed: (3, Interesting)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112390)

K&R and "Advanced C Programming By Example" by John Perry.

Re:Only two C books needed: (4, Funny)

theCURE (551589) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112585)

Yeah because if you don't buy "Advanced C Programming By Example", then K&R might fall over on the shelf.

Re:Only two C books needed: (2)

kolding (55685) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112624)

Personally, the only C book necessary for a good, experienced programmer is C: A Reference Manual by Harbison and Steele. Best book on C out there. Skip K&R. It's awkward, poorly organized, and primarily interesting from a historical point of view.

Re:Only two C books needed: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112663)

Not only that, K&R is easy to find on the p2p networks.

What about ... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112399)

What about that goddamn wired up teddy bear... That thing was AWESOME!!!!

So what you're saying is... (1, Redundant)

InfoCynic (71942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112408)

All in all, you'd give the book a grade about... "C"? :)

Re:So what you're saying is... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112488)

Come on, you crack smoking moderators. Mod that post up as funny, funny, funny. It should get at least a +3 for humor like that.

Reply to this post or I'll fuck you! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112415)

See, trolling is nice and wastes moderators' valuable mod points. Moreover, if we keep alerting people about the pitifully incompetent "reporting" on Slashdot (e.g. the FreeBSD "4.5" release) and that they can use JunkBuster without paying, then all will be happy. Once the troll to normal boring user ratio is 50/50, then it'll be a special time. Oh yes.
Can you tell what it is yet...?
Hint: the answer lies at this marvellous page [goatse.cx] .

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888g
o8/88888\8888888888888\888888888888/8888\8888888o
a|8888888|8888888888888\8888888888|888888|888888a
t|8888888`.8888888888888|888888888|8888888:88888t
s`88888888|8888888888888|88888888\|8888888|88888s
e8\8888888|8/8888888/88\\\888--__8\\8888888:8888e
x88\888888\/888_--~~8888888888~--__|8\88888|8888x
*888\888888\_-~88888888888888888888~-_\8888|8888*
g0000\_00000\00000000_.--------.______\|000|0000g
o000000\00000\______//0_0___0_0(_(__>00\000|000 0o
a0000000\000.00C0___)00______0(_(____>00|00/000 0a
t0000000/\0|000C0____)/ \0(_____>00|_/00000t
s000000/0/\|000C_____) |00(___>000/00\0000s
e00000|000(000_C_____)\______/00//0_/0/00000\000e
x00000|0000\00|__000\\_________//0(__/0000000|00x
*0000|0\0000\____)000`----000--'0000000000000|00*
g0000|00\_0000000000___\ /_0000000000_/0|0g
o000|00000000000000/0000| |00\000000000000|o
a000|0000000000000|0000/ \00\00000000000|0a
t666|6666666666/6/6666| |66\66666666666|0t
s666|666666666/6/666666\__/\___/6666|6666666666|s
e66|66666666666/66666666| |6666666|666666666|e
x66|6666666666|666666666| |6666666|666666666|x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
  • Because asasd [goatse.cx]

    you may not think

    that it is obvious

    was shot in the face

    with a gun.

    was a little baby

    sdf sdfs w3rwdf wer dfsxv wer435 df 235 325rsf dwf 234 2352 efsdfs

    kjashlskfh lasdfjhasldfh ladsjhlashf fhldshf lsadjhsaldf sdfhs aldkhfsdlf
    aslkjf pewnr 3224 asdj82 wdrf 324 asf wq4 234 sed safdsd f3w523 5 dwf df 23 4 234 234sdf. saflku 2wer sadf er3 df we5 132tdwa fet 425 6 wqef qw5e dg fdee wr6y 3rt wet e 6243 6 dsf fg dj e 341 563wqlkejq lqwk ejqlwkje qlw ejlqwe jqlw euqop4u 231b4qs dfasxw 5 3245. 342 345qwdaf asrt34q5 3q. 7 r, sdoifu owei ur ow qeur98 y3294y d sdg av fighef hishfiewrh ti3yrq q5ru w0tu 9wer9uq32y42 0 oy ifehisdfhisudyf iqw iu hweto yw9!

    Once upon a time there

    er after, until he

    was shot in the face

    with a gun.

    sdfjh 304ujr osdhc 9whe9hrti fns e f34 5ef sdf 235ui wodfpisa, wdfjh ss9 8ywdr fbq3r 2erwdfaw qw3e qwer sdf, 3r wejfdoi hwadof oewrj erfawf e, woweru owuero uwqeor u ower sw d q3e qfs! sldkj oad asdasd. wqer wdf sdg 45y ut5.

    54yt4 9wue wqr erg rt 4 6dfs qw 434 457 rt udf gsadh rowqyr123 52e jxf wweor wer 23 f 4 6 4ry

    asd qwrw, weriwfd hiuwr!

    ksdfh sdfedg er h tyheqtweads tru r5 wery ywet ewt w. ewrt r u e tu retrt y qrew yrt u uueweqy u

    w et fgcbcb. 3lurodj firthiqwuh.fsd fvwq et 435 egf, 435t foigj orejtp0w 0ut034ut9 u0weuf 0wdtu werjtowhr ib325 34 6te rg sdf 3e!

    .

Rule of Thumb (5, Interesting)

pizen (178182) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112430)

One of my CS profs (Georgia Tech people probably know who I'm referring to) gave the class advice on buying a C book: Flip through the book. If malloc isn't covered, put it back. If malloc is covered in an appendix, put it back. If the book contains the line cp=realloc(cp,n); then "burn it! Burn it right there in the store! Burn all of them!"

Re:Rule of Thumb (2)

Mr. Neutron (3115) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112676)

If the book contains the line cp=realloc(cp,n); ...

I didn't know Microsoft published a C book.

...or...

Just buy more memory. Memory is cheap.

Why are people still using a 30 year old language? (0, Insightful)

91degrees (207121) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112433)

C was written in the dark ages of second generation languages, when the concept of a programming language was quite a new idea. It was all well and good in its time, but it has been suprceded by any number of other languages. Quite simply C lacks any of the benefits of any other language.

C has no bounded array support. This makes it inherently unsuitable for any security programming taks. The concepts of pointers, structures and unions is totally confused. The typeing can't decide whther its a stronly or losely typed language, so it is possible to cast a pointer to an int to a pointer to a float, and have a different result from casting an interger to a float.

And the support for OO techniques is minimal to non-existent. No templates, no classes. No inheritence. Unlike C++, self modifying code is impossible in a non-platform specific manner. Unlike Perl and Haskell, it is next to impossible to extend an array.

The #include mechanism is a joke. It requires that you type the name of a function at least 3 times, and then you have to deal with circular include paths, and multiple includes of the same file. Support for 32 bit architectures had to be added afterwards in the form of a long keyword.

There is no equivalent of the object class. Can you believe that people are still programming in a language that doesn't have this useful conmcept? Most of the functionality in C is available in MSDOS batch scripts!

It seems that Dennis Ritchie was so besotted with A and B that he forgot to take out the trash.

If the computing industry had any sense, it would have switched to Java 10 years ago. Why hadn't it? Inertia!

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (-1)

Crapflooder (554043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112457)

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH ... BUT DOES C HAVE SUPPORT FOR 256BIT ARCHITECTURES???? SEE! I TOLD YOU SO! YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT!

-1, FULL OF SHIT!

Please try to keep posts on topic. Try to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about. Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated. (You can read everything, even moderated posts, by adjusting your threshold on the User Preferences Page)

Problems regarding accounts or comment posting should be sent to CowboyNeal.

Why I wasn't using Java 10 years ago (2, Funny)

brenfern (260941) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112466)

Because it only came out in 1995.

Also, old does not necessarily mean bad; universities still teach LISP (out in 1958) and quite rightly so.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (3, Insightful)

pizen (178182) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112467)

It seems that Dennis Ritchie was so besotted with A and B that he forgot to take out the trash.

If the computing industry had any sense, it would have switched to Java 10 years ago. Why hadn't it? Inertia!


Speaking of taking out the trash...I prefer to say when garbage collection occurs. I don't get that control with Java like I do with C.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (1)

gte910h (239582) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112501)

It seems that Dennis Ritchie was so besotted with A and B...
Actually, the precursor to B was BCPL, not A. B is C's precursor.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (-1)

OsamaBinLager (532628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112514)

So what you're saying is that you prefer a language that has NO MEMORY MANAGEMENT to one that does?

Brille.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (4, Informative)

pizen (178182) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112542)

So what you're saying is that you prefer a language that has NO MEMORY MANAGEMENT to one that does?

A good programmer can manage memory without the help of the runtime environment. There's a certain pride in being able to program with no memory leaks.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112591)

No, he's saying that he prefers a language that lets him do his own efficient memory management rather than one that sacks him with a woefully bad garbage collection algorithm. (Hint: There's a reason why C is anywhere between ten to fifty times faster than Java and VB on the same hardware.)

If you're young and inexperienced, or if you just basically need your hand held, a lot of these cute "languages" might fit the bill for you. But when you grow up and enter the real world where speed, power, and performance matter, you'd better know C. Otherwise, you'll be feeding your family out of garbage cans.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (-1)

OsamaBinLager (532628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112605)

You've never programmed professionally for a day in your life.

Osamabinlager - always amused at the foaming-at-the-mouth ramblings of stupid geek teenagers.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (2)

Ubi_NL (313657) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112541)

I'm confused now

I guess I'll wait for "D" to come out

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112476)

Oh yes. Java. How useful a language. And gee, you can do anything in it. Perhaps I'll write the VM in Java... oh, wait.

Maybe I'll write an efficient embedded OS in Java... oh, wait.

OK, I'll write my device drivers in Java... oh, wait.

Alrighty, then. I'll write my large, distributed database system in Java. Hey, that'll work! Too bad Visual Basic would cut my development time in half.

Java is a fine language for SOME things. Just don't think that any serious OS or embedded-systems engineer would even consider it.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (1)

qurob (543434) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112507)


C has no bounded array support. This makes it inherently unsuitable for any security programming taks.


*cough* *NIX is written in C *cough*

If the computing industry had any sense, it would have switched to Java 10 years ago. Why hadn't it? Inertia!

Let's just think of how fast x86 Java VM's were 10 years ago. In 1992 I had just purchased a Macintosh Quadra (25mhz), Windows NT wouldn't come out for a year later, and Windows 3.1 and OS/2 2.0 had just came out. The Sparc 10 had just been released. Pentiums were not coming out for a whole 'nother year.

The HotJava browser didn't come out until...1994?

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (2)

pizen (178182) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112525)

C has no bounded array support. This makes it inherently unsuitable for any security programming taks.

*cough* *NIX is written in C *cough*


Yes, but wasn't Windows also originally written in C? I guess it's the programmers and not the language that determine the security.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (-1)

OsamaBinLager (532628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112536)

*cough* *NIX is written in C *cough*

Yes, and we all know how secure Unix and Unix applications are.

You just line up and let the competition shoot you, I suppose. Unix is dead, and arguing with it's defenders is as fun as a dual with an unarmed opponent.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (1)

91degrees (207121) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112549)

*cough* *NIX is written in C *cough*


Good. Now choose an OS with no known buffer overflow exploits.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (1)

ForsakenRegex (312284) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112569)

I don't necessarily disagree that the memory
management complications in C cause problems,
but, I believe that OpenBSD has no known
buffer overflow exploits, at least in the core
OS.

Re:Why are people still using a 30 year old langua (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112538)

From the jargon file:
C is a language that combines all the elegance and power of assembly language with all the readability and maintainability of assembly language.

Above average? (4, Funny)

Dephex Twin (416238) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112450)

He says it's slightly above average

Actually, "C" is about dead-on average, I'd say!

mark

Re:Above average? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112680)

not in an age of grade inflation

linux review (-1, Flamebait)

posmon (516207) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112451)

It's hard not to take an operating system like linux and compare it to such acclaimed and trusted operating systems as Windows, BEOS, and other lesser known, but equally good OSs. Unfortunately linux doesn't really compare with many of the other classic operating systems covering the x86 platofrm. For starters, the writing in this operating system isn't quite up to the same caliber as the other operating systems. Part of the problem with this operating system is language. English does not appear to be the author's native language. There are commands in this operating system that require a few glances to glean the full meaning. linux is difficult enough to present without a language barrier introducing more problems. Another problem is organization. The ideas presented within the operating system are muddled and disjointed, with multiple ideas introduced but not formally explained ever. Beginners will have a terrible time working through this operating system without becoming quickly confused, and experienced programmers will likely pass on this operating system in favor of the other well-known operating systems.

Quick Learning (5, Informative)

jeks (68) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112455)

Learning C as your first language, without any prior computer experience may not be the most clever thing to do. Programming C efficiently, correctly and clearly is best achieved by first understanding computer architecture and programming concepts.

A higher level language provides the abstractions necessary to accommodate "logical thinking" as opposed to a full understanding of say memory management and system I/O. Also, C is quite an orthogonal language in that it supports many awkward combinations of features and constructs. If you are not careful to make your source text clear and readable, debugging even your own code can be oh so cumbersome.

Hence, perhaps reading a book such as "Computer Architecture: A quantitative Approach" by J. Hennessy and D. Paterson is a sensible step towards learning C for the beginner.

Re:Quick Learning (3, Interesting)

yatest5 (455123) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112580)

Learning C as your first language, without any prior computer experience may not be the most clever thing to do. Programming C efficiently, correctly and clearly is best achieved by first understanding computer architecture and programming concepts.

A higher level language provides the abstractions necessary to accommodate "logical thinking" as opposed to a full understanding of say memory management and system I/O. Also, C is quite an orthogonal language in that it supports many awkward combinations of features and constructs. If you are not careful to make your source text clear and readable, debugging even your own code can be oh so cumbersome.


I would totally disagree. Learning a higher-level language, like Java, first, will mean you miss out on learning all the basic stuff you would pick up in C which will stand you in good stead if you ever need to pick up other languages quickly.

Re:Quick Learning (5, Interesting)

Uberminky (122220) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112652)

I'd tend to agree with you on this one. I understand his points, and perhaps another language should be used at the very beginning. I started out on HyperTalk (the scripting language of HyperCard -- that was the coolest toy I had as a kid), learned Pascal (because that was what they taught)... and then FINALLY learned C. This may sound silly but it was a breath of fresh air to me. Everything made sense, everything could be explained in terms of this. The special cases were all gone. Sure, some things were more work, but I learned so much from C in that 10th grade class. I really feel it has helped me have an edge over many of my college peers. Heck, I would've loved to learn assembly language first. I'm having a blast with it now, in embedded systems. It's doing the same thing that C once did for me, simplifying it down to what's REALLY going on, deep down on the metal, so that I truly understand it. One architecture may go out of date, but you can learn just as much from PDP-11 assembly as you can from Lisp today, they're just in different fields. My fifteen cents.. ;)

Nobody reads books anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112462)

I had about 20 technology-related books in my collection, but after time I was realizing that I never used any of them anymore, and I find online resources to be much more valuable as well as much more current than books can ever be. There really needs to be a large push to get away from printed copies of books and possibly XML-formatted online versions.

here's a good beginner book on C (4, Informative)

ForsakenRegex (312284) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112477)

The best book for C beginners I've ever come
across is _A Book on C_, by Al Kelley,
and Ira Pohl. I've recommended it to quite a
few beginners and they've all said it was an
easy and very informative read.

Agreed. (1)

glrotate (300695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112561)

Quite a supplement to K&R.

Why does everyone hate Jon Katz? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112481)

I mean, he's just a dire writer. His musings aren't particularly well-instrumented and he's generally lame in every respect. But you don't have to read him!
Can you tell what it is yet...?
Hint: the answer lies at this marvellous page [goatse.cx] .

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888g
o8/88888\8888888888888\888888888888/8888\8888888o
a|8888888|8888888888888\8888888888|888888|888888a
t|8888888`.8888888888888|888888888|8888888:88888t
s`88888888|8888888888888|88888888\|8888888|88888s
e8\8888888|8/8888888/88\\\888--__8\\8888888:8888e
x88\888888\/888_--~~8888888888~--__|8\88888|8888x
*888\888888\_-~88888888888888888888~-_\8888|8888*
g0000\_00000\00000000_.--------.______\|000|0000g
o000000\00000\______//0_0___0_0(_(__>00\000|000 0o
a0000000\000.00C0___)00______0(_(____>00|00/000 0a
t0000000/\0|000C0____)/ \0(_____>00|_/00000t
s000000/0/\|000C_____) |00(___>000/00\0000s
e00000|000(000_C_____)\______/00//0_/0/00000\000e
x00000|0000\00|__000\\_________//0(__/0000000|00x
*0000|0\0000\____)000`----000--'0000000000000|00*
g0000|00\_0000000000___\ /_0000000000_/0|0g
o000|00000000000000/0000| |00\000000000000|o
a000|0000000000000|0000/ \00\00000000000|0a
t666|6666666666/6/6666| |66\66666666666|0t
s666|666666666/6/666666\__/\___/6666|6666666666|s
e66|66666666666/66666666| |6666666|666666666|e
x66|6666666666|666666666| |6666666|666666666|x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
  • Because asasd [goatse.cx]

    you may not think

    that it is obvious

    was shot in the face

    with a gun.

    was a little baby

    sdf sdfs w3rwdf wer dfsxv wer435 df 235 325rsf dwf 234 2352 efsdfs

    kjashlskfh lasdfjhasldfh ladsjhlashf fhldshf lsadjhsaldf sdfhs aldkhfsdlf
    aslkjf pewnr 3224 asdj82 wdrf 324 asf wq4 234 sed safdsd f3w523 5 dwf df 23 4 234 234sdf. saflku 2wer sadf er3 df we5 132tdwa fet 425 6 wqef qw5e dg fdee wr6y 3rt wet e 6243 6 dsf fg dj e 341 563wqlkejq lqwk ejqlwkje qlw ejlqwe jqlw euqop4u 231b4qs dfasxw 5 3245. 342 345qwdaf asrt34q5 3q. 7 r, sdoifu owei ur ow qeur98 y3294y d sdg av fighef hishfiewrh ti3yrq q5ru w0tu 9wer9uq32y42 0 oy ifehisdfhisudyf iqw iu hweto yw9!

    Once upon a time there

    er after, until he

    was shot in the face

    with a gun.

    sdfjh 304ujr osdhc 9whe9hrti fns e f34 5ef sdf 235ui wodfpisa, wdfjh ss9 8ywdr fbq3r 2erwdfaw qw3e qwer sdf, 3r wejfdoi hwadof oewrj erfawf e, woweru owuero uwqeor u ower sw d q3e qfs! sldkj oad asdasd. wqer wdf sdg 45y ut5.

    54yt4 9wue wqr erg rt 4 6dfs qw 434 457 rt udf gsadh rowqyr123 52e jxf wweor wer 23 f 4 6 4ry

    asd qwrw, weriwfd hiuwr!

    ksdfh sdfedg er h tyheqtweads tru r5 wery ywet ewt w. ewrt r u e tu retrt y qrew yrt u uueweqy u

    w et fgcbcb. 3lurodj firthiqwuh.fsd fvwq et 435 egf, 435t foigj orejtp0w 0ut034ut9 u0weuf 0wdtu werjtowhr ib325 34 6te rg sdf 3e!

    .

In case you don't know what they're talking about (1)

spaten-optimator (560694) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112484)

When people talk about "K&R" as a book, they're referring specifically to "The C Programming Language" by Kernighan and Ritchie (amazon [amazon.com] ), which is, without a doubt, the best reference available for C, and well worth the $40 its gonna cost ya.

Mind you, its probably not the best book to learn C, but once you have the basics, this book will become your bible. I keep a softbound copy at home, and a nice hardback version I found at a used bookstore at work. Absolutely indispensible.

The Art of Writing (3, Insightful)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112492)

The Art of writing and education is difficult in its own right, and not everyone knows how to put things together. Often you have to correctly analyse what concepts are fundamental to the understanding of more complex concept.

As an example, I can recall a man who came into the store where I was working, and who asked me how much "virtual memory" cost.

Besides trying not to laugh there was the problem mentioned above.

The fundamental concepts missing were the concepts of "memory" and "virtual", along with a larger mental model to enable the average person to organise the concepts into something useful when dealing with computers. [The usual mental model I use for beginners is one of a computer = your information factory. Hard drives = warehouse, etc.]

It is possible to arrange things inthe manner of " Gradus [go.com] ad [karadar.com] Parnassum [alexanderpublishing.com] " (graded steps)

Without proper technique in this area, It is very easy to make a bloody mess of it. It is a skill in its own right, separate from knowledge of the area to be taught in the first place.

Tools of the trade. (3, Interesting)

DCram (459805) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112496)

When you walk into HQ or Home Depot have you ever asked yourself why are there so many tools that do about the same job? There is always the right tool for the job. This is the same as it is in the programing world. I have heard people in this thread say why use C. Because if its the right tool to get the job done then use it. Don't get so caught up in one language, even a new one, that you make yourself a dino.

A good C book is always a great find. I find myself going through kernel code or drivers or as of late the netsnmp code going hmmm.. I've seen this before but exactly what is going on.

Refrence material is always good..no matter what.

What I would love to see is a thread on what books most coders have found to be the most useful, what they have on there shelves.

I love reading the reviews that say the book is good but not really worth my time.

Re:Tools of the trade. (2, Informative)

ciscoeng (411359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112644)

Three of the best I've read for programming in C (that are happily ear-marked, bent, and written-in):

"C Traps and Pitfalls", Andrew Koenig, AT&T, 1988
- A bit dated in places, but still covers the very fundamental gotchas that a lot of programmers forget/don't know

"Expert C Programming: Deep C Secrets", Peter Van Der Linden, SunSoft Press, 1994
- Fun to read, especially how the simple linguistics of a language can cause major ($20 mil)
bugs

"The C Programming Language, second ed", Kernighan and Ritchie, AT&T, 1988
- They developed C, 'nuff said.

Wow... (-1)

OsamaBinLager (532628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112499)

This dude is only 20 years too late for that one.

A new C book in the year 2002?

Sheesh...

Most importantly, does it cover coding style? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3112512)

A C book that doesn't cover a proper coding style is pretty useless.

Yeah, you might bang out a quick "itch-scratcher" without using a strict coding style, but not a solid piece of software that can be maintained.

Lost in a sea of C's! (1)

nexusone (470558) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112528)

Are not all other programming languages that are popular today, just extensions of the 'C' base? If you look back 'C' it is the first cross platform language, take JAVA which is really 'C' with an OOP style and a few syntax changes.

A quote from the reviewer: "C is difficult enough to present without a language barrier introducing more problems." I think he is confusing 'C' with 'C++'; which can be a very confusing implication of 'C'.

I think a first time 'C' user would be well advised to get one of the 'K&R' programming books. I found it very helpful when I was learning 'C'.

Re:Lost in a sea of C's! (1)

CodeMonkey555 (517387) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112678)

I believe it is an over simplification of programming languages to say that all popular languages (including Java) are based on C. There are really three types of programming languages (beyond assembly): functional, procedural, and object-oriented. Functional is basically LISP, procedural include C, Pascal, Fortran, Cobol, while object oriented contains C++, Java, and Delphi. C++, Java, and Delphi are object-oriented, but they are based on procedural languages for their basis. Everyone says that Java is really object-oriented, but there's still that damn little "static void main".

Eventually, there will be a real object-oriented language that is a paradigm shift away from oop-built-on-procedural. Most of us will prolly just complain because MS will develop it and it will be a point-and-click system. :)

Kernigan Ritchie (1)

maitas (98290) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112539)

I don't know why they even write C books. There has always been and will only be one programming book "the C programming languaje" by Kernigan Ritchie. Not only a superb C book, simply put, the best programming book ever. Now I'm looking for a similar book on JAVA, but all the books I found are tooooooo big. So far, the best JAVA book I read is "Just JAVA and beyond" by Peter Van Der Linden. Chapter 2 is all you need to know about OOP.

Re:Kernigan Ritchie (1)

jrennie (79374) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112578)

Have you read Java in a Nutshell (O'Reilly)? It's compact and serves as a nice reference.

Jason

Alan Thicke. DEAD. (-1)

Alan_Thicke (553655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112545)

I just heard the sad news on CBC radio. Comedy actor/writer Alan Thicke was found dead in his home this morning. Even if you never liked his work, you can appreciate what he did for 80's television. Truly a Canadian icon. [slashdot.org]
He will be missed :(



Show me That Smile (The Growing Pains Theme Song):

Show me that smile again.
Ooh show me that smile.
Don't waste another minute on your crying.
We're nowhere near the end.
We're nowhere near.
The best is ready to begin.

As long as we got each other
We got the world
Sitting right in our hands.
Baby rain or shine;
All the time.
We got each other
Sharing the laughter and love.

C vs. C++ (1, Offtopic)

SPaReK (320677) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112588)

Though its been a while since I have programmed in C, I think it is worth noting, for new users, that learning C, is a lot easier than trying to learn C++. I tried to learn C++, but as a newbie programmer, it got very confusing. I don't remember why, but C was just a lot easier to learn. I never went on to study C++ (perl got really interesting). But, my advice for anybody wanting to go into programming, take a look at C first.

I'm totally underqualified to comment but... (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112639)

For a person who doesn't program in C and never learnt C++ (because Perl, of all things, distracted him) I would suggest that your comment is worth about nothing.

Re:C vs. C++ (1)

MagPulse (316) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112656)

C is a much simpler language, and if you stay away from complicated OO concepts, programming in C is pretty straightforward. Some like to say C is just "pointers, structs, and functions".

C++ has a ton of features, and you aren't going to use all of them, they're just there to support whichever programming paradigm you decide to use it for.

Stroustrup suggests jumping right in to C++ though if you're not interested in C. The difference is you have to stay alert for which parts of the language you're learning, and not get stuck in the features. I suggest the Deitel&Deitel book [amazon.com] ; it lets you start coding right away with the important parts of the language.

The only C book I ever recommend to all (1)

GCU Friendly Fire (563491) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112592)

C Traps and Pitfalls
Andrew Koenig

Still the best after thirteen years.

Just for fun... C is a hoax? (5, Funny)

spaten-optimator (560694) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112613)

An old april-fools joke, this snippet [gnu.org] will give you a good chuckle at the expense of C:

"We stopped when we got a clean compile on the following syntax:

for(;P("\n"),R--;P("|"))for(e=C;e--;P("_"+*u++/8)% 2))P("| "+(*u/4)%2);

To think that modern programmers would try to use a language that allowed such a statement was beyond our comprehension!"

Also check out shooting yourself in the foot [noncorporeal.com] in various programming languages.

Reference material (1)

ciole (211179) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112637)

A good C reference would be one thing, however, this sounds like more of an introductory general C comprehension book, and in the vein of those that have gone before. What use do coders have for this? If we know C we need a more specialized discussion, and if we don't, there are canonical texts to refer to (K&R).

OTOH, it warms my heart to see interest in C. it's really my favorite language, and while i don't mind that most employers want me to write OO code, i would hate for C to fade from the earth (especially in favor of C#).

Language Barrier (1)

keep_it_simple_stupi (562690) | more than 12 years ago | (#3112647)

English does not appear to be the author's native language. There are sentences in this book that require a few glances to glean the full meaning.
So how is this any different from the college C courses available? :)
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