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Slashdot IRC Forum

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the navel-gazing dept.

Slashdot.org 428

The IRC forum with CmdrTaco and Hemos is now complete, and a log has been posted. They answered quite a few questions about Slashdot's subscription system, bigger ads, and other assorted stuff. Don't miss the question about pop-up ads.

cancel ×

428 comments

My Experience with Linux (-1)

RoboTroll (560160) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122039)

My experiences with Linux

I've been using *BSD for years starting with the first releases
of Berkeley's operating system. I've even got the tape with Tahoe around somewhere. But all my coworkers at the ISP where I work claimed Linux to be the superior operating system of the next century which will crush microsoft sometime. Well, I was a little sceptical. But I've never used Linux before, so I though that I should give it a try. I ordered the newest Debian woody package, 'cos I wanted full IP6 support. No reason to keep with the old protocols. A few days later a 15 CD set sighed by some guy named ZtaHma (at least that was all I could make out of this strange signature) arrived.

I was very curious, so I started installing the stuff at my Pentium IV at once. There I ran into the first troubles. After selecting the package gcc-doc the package manager claimed that there was a conflict with gcc-2.96 and gcc-3.0 and many associated packages. This won't be of much trouble yet. But it opened of list of all the "conflicting" packages which were suddenly unselected by default. Still no problem there, I could have reselected them at once, but I accidentially hit the return key for selection which accepted the "default" and all the selections were gone. This resulted in fucking around later with constant package reinstalls, 'cos I never got all unselected packages back and the apps started complaining about missing "gcc-blurp" etc.

During install I wondered why there was no config options for ip6, but such stuff with rather common with OSS software and I prefer viing config files anyway. After full install I noticed that there was no options for installing [xkg]dm by default, but I won't call this a problem. The problems turned out at different places. I first tried to activate ip6 for my local links

bildo# ifconfig eth0 inet6 fec0::2/64 add ifconfig: bad option inet6

WTF ? After some manpaging I found out that the Linux netutils
are really fucked up any use non standard parameters for ip6. But however:

bildo# ifconfig eth0 add fec0::2/64 kernel doesn't support IP6

Bad news. I noticed that the standard kernel was optimized for 80386 with support for XT harddisks but without support for ip6. So I had to recompile the entire kernel first. At this point the "gcc-blurp" reinstall fun started as already mentioned above. I was already a little wary at this point, this IP6 (EXPERIMENTIAL) - 6 years after the first draft - didn't seemed very promising. After compiling and booting ifconfig worked without trouble. But tha bad surprise was arriving:

bildo# netstat -r 127.0.0.1 * 255.255.255.0 lo

Fuck ! Were was ip6 ??? Ifconfig said it was there ! Well I thoughtit was a fucked netstat, so I tried a simple:

bildo# telnet ::1 Trying ::1... Connection error: connection refused bildo# telnet bildo Trying bildo... Bildo <debian 3.0pre (woddy)> Today is a good day the mew the goat ! Login:

Well at least ip6 was working. But all apps seemed to be fucked up. So I tried a last:

bildo# ping6 ::1 ping6 not found

At this point I slammed by keyboard into the TFT-Panel and turned the computer off.

What remains to say ?

Linux is obviously an operation system for amateurs and hobbiests not for professional users. I reinstalled FreeBSD at my computer at once. Had to do the installation via an serial cable to my old 386 though, because my TFT-Panel and the keyboard are broken.

Troll 38 of 131 from the annals of the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

Back to back (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122115)

Don't think we're not watching, silly billy gumdrops!

Re:My Experience with Linux (-1)

Carp Flounderson (542291) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122179)

RoboTroll. aka FP-bot! Screw you ACs AND logged in human trolls! RoboTroll will defeat all firstpostings coming from all bags of mostly water.

My Experience with Jill (-1)

DarkShitter (527252) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122299)

A sexy young maiden named Jill -
tried a dynamite stick for a thrill -
they found her vagina -
in North Carolina -
and bits of her tits in Brazil

first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122044)

dedicated to flarners

Re:first post (1)

SweetAndSourJesus (555410) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122199)

<Question> SweetAndSourJesus asks : Do you really think this is going to work?
<CmdrTaco> It's really more of a last-ditch effort kinda thing.

Something stinks! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122045)

PU! CmdrTaco, I think you forgot to wipe your azz crack!

PS: Pop up adds RULE!

Re:Something stinks! (-1)

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM (537317) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122117)

I'm out of diapers.

Subscriptions are worthless (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122049)

Anyone can turn off Slashdot ads [slashdot.org] for free!

wow... that popup question was worth the hype. (3, Insightful)

edrugtrader (442064) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122060)

cmdr... seriously... this isn't going to work. mark this redundant right now...

1) paypal
2) tech saavy audience already disables ads
3) why would i pay to view the content i provide??
4) why would i ADVERTISE on a site that allows its biggest fans to block the ads?

this isn't a good idea. period.

Re:wow... that popup question was worth the hype. (3, Insightful)

Tarrek (547315) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122142)

For this system to be workable, *everyone* doesn't need to contribute. Some people actually like supporting causes they believe in, regardless of whether they could block out the ads, or whatnot. I used to pay out of pocket for electricity on a local pirate radio rig that I used to broadcast off of (I'm clean now, away FCC, away!). Sure, I was paying for myself to work, but hell, I didn't mind.

Re:wow... that popup question was worth the hype. (2, Informative)

Julian Plamann (449854) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122308)

I agree completely.
With the click of a few buttons, I could block ads from any site I wanted across my LAN. But you know what? I have yet to ad slashdot.org to this list.

I think most of the people who read slashdot are intelligent enough to realize the cost of running an extremely popular site such as this one.Because of that, they're more than willing to put up with a few banner ads regardless of how easy it would be for them to block it.

Oh Man!!! I can't wait to get kicked out!!!! (-1)

DarkShitter (527252) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122067)

There once was a man from Peru who fell asleep in his canoe while dreaming of venus he played with his penis and woke up covered in goo.

Subscriptions (5, Insightful)

itsnotme (20905) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122069)

After hearing/SEEING how much slashdot costs, and knowing that I'd like to keep reading slashdot, I decided to change my opinion from waiting until the BFA's become annoying and just to pay the subscription because I want to SUPPORT slashdot.. hell I dont care about the AD's. I dont block 'em but I also can IGNORE the ones I dont want to see.. (THose Thinkgeek ones rock!)

But Slashdot folks do go through a bit trying to make sure that the ads are nonintrusive in that they're not popups and so on.. now THOSE would make you want to run away wouldnt that? and they're not using them STILL even with the subscription thing.. so you have to give them some credit in knowing HOW far to go and NOT going over the line.. so why not support them? 5 bucks isnt that much to pay..

Re:Subscriptions (1)

edrugtrader (442064) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122094)

5 bucks isnt that much to pay..


$5 a week is....

Re:Subscriptions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122171)

Yeah, but guess what?? You don't even need to see the ads, and Slashdot has give you the ability to remove them! This is the spirit of open source hacking at its finest! Check it out [slashdot.org] . That's all there is to it.

Re:Subscriptions (-1)

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM (537317) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122183)

Advertisement is a slap in the face of every remaining intelligent life form left on slashdot, if any. And you are not one of them.

Is it really that big of a deal? (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122074)

Guess what?!? You don't even need to see the ads, and Slashdot has give you the power to remove them! Check it out [slashdot.org] . Easy as pie!

FP again! (-1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122076)

how many FP's do ya think I can get on this article? A lot!

Stephen King, author, dead at 54 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122091)


I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

did you guys cover... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122092)

CmdrTaco's excessive homosexuality ?

One possibility (5, Interesting)

MadFarmAnimalz (460972) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122098)

I missed the forum thanks to work; there's one idea that had crossed my mind. I acknowledge that /. needs cash flow to keep moving, but there may be a way out of subscriptions.

Set up polls to gather non-personal data for marketroids, such as what compiler you use and why, what http server you use and why, etc. I'm cerrtain that with some small measure of headscratching, it would be possible to gather information about the geek community to be worth money to a marketing research concern while at the same time keeping it within geek sensibilities, i.e. no 'what is your bank account number' type questions.

Perhaaps some form of questionnaire to be filled out upon registration, retroactively applicable?

Study us; we're geeks. We buy stuff. Expensive stuff. Servers. Networking gear. We're the bleeding edge consumers, what the marketing people call 'early adopters'.

Just don't try to sell us beer.

Re:One possibility (4, Insightful)

reaper20 (23396) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122170)

Mod parent up, good points:

Generic surveys or something would be a good idea. I like the idea of Slashdot being a gathering place for early adopters and geeks - unfortunately trolls and the such bring the site down (try browsing at 0 or something and you'll get the point).

Generic surveys for subscribers would rock. I'd definately participate if I knew that Tivo was surveying slashdot users. Or a Compaq survey for "what would you want in a rackmount". If anything, some of us are in positions that make purchasing decisions, we need to advertise this.

Considering that most of us are early adopters of technology, I would *guess* that companies like Tivo, PDA manufacturers, IBM, Compaq, etc. would be lining up to get our input.

Re:One possibility (2, Interesting)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122205)

Online surveys are a complete waste of the bits that they are based on : They don't have equal representation of the cross-section of users (i.e. Ask what you favourite OS and the Linux users tend towards being more motivated than the Windows users), and even non-trolls regularly enter false information.

Re:One possibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122225)

I would much prefer to block the ads entirely [slashdot.org] , as they're annoying and don't fit in the page correctly. I'm also not going to spend $5 a month (or more) for biased crap spewing from CmdrTaco's hole along with the usual misinformation that comes along with Slashdot. Slashdot, LinuxTodays news yesterday, today!

Re:One possibility (2)

Xerithane (13482) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122237)

Just don't try to sell us beer.

I'm sure you meant to append "without checking ID" at the end of that.

Re:One possibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122242)

I don't think the marketroids could use data that all points to "CowboyNeal".

Re:One possibility (1)

sahala (105682) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122248)

Just don't try to sell us beer

Um...speak for yourself.

Re:One possibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122275)

I can answer for the entire /. community. GCC and Apache. Even though Apache sucks compared to IIS.

Thank you.

Re:One possibility (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122330)

that's the best idea I've seen in days

the slashwife forum (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122109)

SLASHWIFE
News for negroes. Stuff for darkies.

WATERMELON UNDER THE GPL

POPEYES SELLING CUSTOMER DATA

BREW YOUR OWN 40s OR STEAL THEM

PORCH SITTING PIONEER DEAD AT 54

BOOK REVIEW: READ? FUCK DAT!

ASK SLASHWIFE: GOOD CRACK FOR CHEAP?

YOUR RIGHTS ON WELFARE: BUYING SMOKES WITH FOODSTAMPS

DNA TESTING NARROWS THE FATHER DOWN TO 1 IN 150

my question (2, Interesting)

Dr Kool, PhD (173800) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122110)

Was slashdot turning a profit before you implemented this annoying advertising/subscription scheme??

If slashdot is in the red then I really can't hate you guys for not paying out of your pockets to keep the site up and running. But I've heard some anecdotal evidence suggesting that slashdot.org is indeed turning a profit. That would mean VA Linux(or whatever they are called now) is taxing the slashdot users to pay for unprofitable ventures elsewhere.

Face it guys: VA has NO CHANCE IN HELL of surviving as a company. Their flagship product, Sourceforge, is a joke. Last I checked, VA's net loss was more than their TOTAL REVENUE. You can't come back from that in a quarter, or even a year. Slashdot will be sold to some other company or spun off or something.

Well... (5, Funny)

The-Bus (138060) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122113)

As long as I can hit the monkey and still get $20...

What Slashdot should do (2, Interesting)

Metrollica (552191) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122120)

Slashdot should make comments subscription only.

They could even do away with the need for moderation.

I mean, who wants to pay to crapflood?

Re:What Slashdot should do (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122134)

NOBODY wants to pay for crapflood. But EVERYONE wants to pay for SLASHWIFE!!

SLASHWIFE
News for niggers. Stuff for darkies.

WATERMELON UNDER THE GPL

POPEYES SELLING CUSTOMER DATA

BREW YOUR OWN 40S OR STEAL THEM

PORCH SITTING PIONEER DEAD AT 55

BOOK REVIEW: READ? FUCK DAT!

ASK SLASHWIFE: GOOD CRACK FOR CHEAP?

YOUR RIGHTS ON WELFARE: BUYING SMOKES WITH FOODSTAMPS

DNA TESTING NARROWS FATHER DOWN TO 1 IN 150

Re:What Slashdot should do (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122175)

Slash Wife [slashdot.org] is not taken. Why not create a new account [slashdot.org] ?

--Metrollica

Re:What Slashdot should do (-1)

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM (537317) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122254)

"I mean, who wants to pay to crapflood?"

Silly you! You have no idea how much money most of the trolls around here would be willing to shell out to fuck up slashdot in a painful death.

$5-$20 seems a slim amount of money for the task.

As I said before, a subscription system would only serves as to scare away the few remaining intelligent people left on slashdot, if any. And you are not one of them.

Re:What Slashdot should do (2, Insightful)

Vikki_R. (532184) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122283)

Slashdot should make comments subscription only.

I assume that you can pay for a subscription? Unfortunately, some of us can't afford the subscription (honestly) and/or have no way to pay-- no credit cards. Believe me, if I had the $$, I'd subscribe, if only to support /.; as it is, I like some of the ads, ignore the others, and pray my dad finds a job.

Though, I think you're right about comment-subscriptions doing away with the need for moderation. But there are some of us who don't troll, but can't subscribe, either.

bugger (-1)

mackga (990) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122125)

bugger.
booger
better buttsex with masie! [lolitasex.nl]

Friends/Foes (3, Interesting)

DavidJA (323792) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122131)

You touches on being able to treat subscribers like Friends/Foes (+1 or -1), but how about the ability to simply ignore a friend/foe or non subscriber???

I want to read at -1, but I also want to not have to look at the crap that Klerck puts out.

Avoiding Ads (5, Insightful)

ksw2 (520093) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122132)

Never underestimate the willingness of computer folks to circumvent fees, no matter how small the fee is.

Re:Avoiding Ads (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122186)

Especially when Slashdot dumps the answer right in your hands, like this [slashdot.org] . Those ads were interesting for the hour that I saw them! =)

Re:Avoiding Ads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122271)

You didn't have Slashdot's ads filtered out years ago? What kind of n00b l4m3r are you?

I didn't even have to touch my old filters to catch the new ads, thus I don't have the foggiest idea what they look like, let alone where they would be on the page.

Hasn't been asked enough.... (5, Funny)

reaper20 (23396) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122139)

Just in case I missed it:

Do comments display ads by default?
Do I get penalized for viewing them?
And if so, am I paying for that?

Can you explain all this again Taco? Just kidding.

(ducks and runs)

Now you really know the /. crew is on drugs (1)

Jesse Duke (559062) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122141)

<Hemos>:
Let me restate:
OSDN is doing very very well."

Er.. It's doing so well /. has been told to help supporting their own weight. And SourceForge goes down all the time, and those hanging around on irc.openprojects.net can't have missed the OPN crew begging for bandwidth several times in the last few days.

So, like, okay, OSDN is doing just peachy ...

Re:Now you really know the /. crew is on drugs (-1)

OsamaBinLager (532628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122155)

those hanging around on irc.openprojects.net can't have missed the OPN crew begging for bandwidth several times in the last few days.



Can you clarify? And what is OPN?

Re:Now you really know the /. crew is on drugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122341)

OPN is not owned by OSDN. Please get facts correct. Openprojects Network (By Lilo) should IMHO be funded, since it is the home for many opensource project's discussion forums (Of which Debian is probably the biggest). BTW, Someone give Lilo a good job :) Hi.

n/t (-1)

Mode0x13 (550144) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122161)

It is common practice in England to signal a telephone subscriber by signaling with 90 volts across one side of the two wire circuit and ground (earth in England). When the subscriber answers the phone, it switches to the two wire circuit for the conversation.

This method allows two parties on the same line to be signalled without disturbing each other.

This particular subscriber, an elderly lady with several pets called to say that her telephone failed to ring when her friends called and that on the few occations when it did manage to ring her dog always barked first. Torn between curiosity to see this psychic dog and a realization that standard service techniques might not suffice in this case, Pat proceeded to the scene. Climbing a nearby telephone pole and hooking in his test set, he dialed the subscriber's house. The phone didn't ring. He tried again. The dog barked loudly, followed
by a ringing telephone.

Climbing down from the pole, Pat found:

a. Dog was tied to the telephone system's ground post via an iron chain and collar.

b. Dog was receiving 90 volts of signalling current.

c. After several jolts, the dog was urinating on ground and barking.

d. Wet ground now conducted and phone rang.

Which goes to prove that some grounding problems can be passed on......

Nads.... (1)

thewiz (24994) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122163)

What I want to see is a poll on who we think "WILL GNAW OFF (their) OWN GENITALS FIRST", as Hemos so eloquently put it, if we do start seeing pop-up ads here.

Not that I'd care to see them actually do either one...

Save alterslash (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122185)

Looks like Rob and Jeff Hitler are going after AlterSlash [alterslash.org] . Why? Think about it? They show you Slashdot without the inane ads and other things which make Slashdot suck. Gee, this is one thing jamie and michael won't be touching.

Here's to Slashdot's demise!

You know what? (5, Insightful)

neema (170845) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122187)

Know what? I put that ad-removing code into my user space... read the IRC log and removed it. Specifically when I read this from Hemos:

"Here's the reality: You block ads. You cost us money. Ultimately, I mean."

This is where you have to stop and think "Hey... if Slashdot DOES go down because of a lack of profits, where will I turn?"

Of course, there are other news places to go to. I visit The Register often. However, Slashdot is, despite any errors in editorials or anything... a truly unique news site. For the years I've been reading, I've been pleased overall. We've all encountered bumps in the road, and that bump in the road for users right now is the ads. Now, of course (which I find it ironic that this comes not long after this [slashdot.org] , but still) many of you are simply not going to go for the idea of something that was once pratically free and devoid of huge ads to have simply changed on you. You'll cheat the system as much as you can, and for the most part, you'll succeed.

But how much will that accomplish? Realize the plight slashdot apparently is in, and how they need to raise money, somehow. Subscriptions and ads are that way. And while I disagree with a lot of the way they're going to implement them... why not just pick one way, even if you have qualms with it, and just go with it? Put aside your inflammatory, trolling and goatse links for a second and realize that Slashdot is truly a useful resource. If you're going to visit this site, for once prove that it doesn't take sneaky or unethical buisness for something to survive... merely a good product. That is what Slashdot is, and most of you know it: a very good product.

While I personally won't be going for a subscription (16 years old = lack of credit card), I will stomach the ads and probably a lot more if they need it to survive.

Re:You know what? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122214)

I'd try LinuxToday. They offer all the same news, but with correct spelling and none of the crap spewing forth from CmdrTaco's hole.

[OT] ROTFL (1)

kilroy_hau (187226) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122193)


<CmdrTaco> We hope that enough users want Slashdot to still be here in a few years.
<hemos> I just don't wnat you to. :)

Heh.

Hemos doesn't love you, Taco!

Eh....$5, whatever (4, Interesting)

rainwalker (174354) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122197)

Seriously, Slashdot is my homepage and I check it perhaps 10-15 times per day. The stories are sometimes questionable but usually interesting, and the comments are usually blatent stupidity or flamebait, but sometimes though-provoking. I decided I'll just block the BFA's so I don't forget to shoot them $5 on a regular basis, but really the ads don't bother me. This is a part of that whole tip jar using, user community supported, huge media comglomerate free thing that the New Internet was supposed to be all about, whats so terrible about tossing in $5? I guess that seems cheap to me, but then again I tend to use the tip jar for all my favorite sites a couple times a year, never much (because I am a poor college student), but I don't want the sites that I enjoy to disappear. just my quick thoughts-

Copyright on posts (5, Insightful)

SiliconEntity (448450) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122200)

Seems like a good point by homerj at 16:41 in the chat. Posters give slashdot permission to publish their comments, but it's not a blanket grant. Slashdot can't put the comments in a book and sell the book, for example.

By the same reasoning, wouldn't there be some limits on what slashdot can do to the site and still carry the implied permission by the author? Changing to a for-pay model means that slashdot is now profiting from the site in a way that was not the case when the author posted. Maybe he would not have been willing to use slashdot to publish if he had known that there was money coming in as a pay service, without getting a cut of that money himself.

Seems to me that slashdot may be stepping over the line in charging for content which was submitted with the understanding that it would be published for no charge. Any lawyers care to comment?

Re:Copyright on posts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122312)

Slashdot was charging for content for years, so if a line was crossed, it happened back in the 20th century. All that changed this month is WHO pays. It used to be advertisers, now it's either advertisers or readers, at the reader's choice.

anti-anon (1)

JDizzy (85499) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122202)

I'd pay Andover to remove ALL ads, and also remove the anonymous cowards from my world. In other words, I'd pay to not have to read post by trolls, etc. I'm not certain if this was covered in the IRC, but I would have raised the issue if I wasn't at work, and able to participate.

just my two cents.... sorry if it is redundant... and I'm sure an anon coward will have to say something, just the people to prove my point about quality non-troll subscriptions.

Re:anti-anon (3, Informative)

sulli (195030) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122247)

just give ACs a -6 bonus in your profile, they'll always end up at -1. (if you haven't checked this out, it's pretty neat: you can give bonuses between -6 and +6 to Friend/Foe/Fan/Freak as well as all comment ratings. it's in the "comments" section of your preferences.)

Re:anti-anon (1)

DarkSkiesAhead (562955) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122297)


and also remove the anonymous cowards from my world. In other words, I'd pay to not have to read post by trolls, etc.
Why pay when you can get rid of anon for free?

Go to preferences, set the Anonymous Modifier to -6, and set your threshold to at least 0. Besides, while trolls are more likely to be anonymous cowards, there is nothing stopping them from registering. Money won't solve the problem of people being stupid.

Pretty boring (5, Insightful)

Stonehead (87327) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122204)

I wonder whether CmdrTaco and Hemos really enjoyed the chat. Slashnet was overcrowded by trolls, there were lots of double questions about the ads and subscriptions and I think the Slashdot staff *does* have a mixed feeling on 'going non-free', but they can't go back. According to the logs, already 1,5% of the Slashdot visitors is a paying subscriber.
I don't want to sound ungrateful for Slashdot, but some crew change might be welcome too. Slashdot has become a habit - the editors no longer feel obliged to fix half-wrong stories, they don't realize that they piss off a customer with every rejected submission and I think CmdrTaco has rejected *lots* of good ideas tonight. He seems to stick on only no-ads and gold stars, and little extra power for subscribers. Come on Taco, you aren't a suit - some things might not be too easy in Slash (submission of polls, access to the submission queue, a trusted net of paying moderators) but they will prove more robust and much cooler than this ripped-out-of-any-book business model. That's my point: Slashdot gets boring. I hate to see this leading weblog go the same road as so many others.. this is not another troll, Slashdot will be as interesting as it ever was, but the specialty is gone. Hey, we're a community! I liked the chat, but Taco hardly *listened* :( I wish him luck nevertheless.

Re:Pretty boring (2)

singularity (2031) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122289)

I believe Taco is listening all too well.

Numerous people have said that they would stop reading Slashdot if they had to pay for anything above and beyond ad-removal.

I do not want subscribers paying for special moderation access. I want it based on positive karma, as it is now.

Taco has to be very special giving special priviledges to subscribers for fear of pissing off the people who post/submit that do not subscribe and would leave if these were implemented.

Re:Pretty boring (3, Insightful)

Stonehead (87327) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122345)

Okay, but lots of other people have become angry too on other current reasons. For example because they post 'free' (as in freedom) comments on Slashdot, while Hemos says that replicating Slashdot comments [alterslash.org] is a copyright violation (he is right in that, btw). An option 'this comment is covered by license X' could solve that easily.
Seriously, what if you require paying moderators to have a karma > 50 ? I think there are a lot of fair options to make interested people pay, without offending the freeloaders.

To CmdrTaco, hemos, et al. (1, Insightful)

datastew (529152) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122207)

<CmdrTaco>

We're part of VA, so we're tied more to them then I would like ;)
OSDN does really well IMHO.
I really don't know what happens.
Be careful, crew. Companies have a way of obscuring their business health/inner workings from their employees. (Think Enron)

What I learned from the IRC chat (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122212)


I learned that Cmdr Taco is an bitch. Sacracstic in an un-funny way. What a cunt. I bet his boyfriends have to bitch-slap him all the time, right before they come on his face.

It's a kind of intellectual arrogance. (4, Interesting)

Futurepower(tm) (228467) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122213)


Read the IRC Forum. Basically, they indicate that they gave all of this very little thought. They still have no idea of the complications of advertising.

It's a kind of intellectual arrogance. Because they know computer things, nothing else can be difficult.

Re:It's a kind of intellectual arrogance. (5, Interesting)

Xerithane (13482) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122258)

Absolutely agreed.

The fact that they don't actually have a spreadsheet that they can reference to see revenue and costs is just silly. Yes, it ends in a .org -- but if it employs people (and /. does) you need to get your heads out of your ass and make a fucking business plan.

I'll tell you how to avoid the entire /. ad/subscription mess - run it like a business instead of your after school project. Write a business plan. Do cost projects/analysis -- find out what websites make money. Hell, open up a merchandise store or do some serious bundling with thinkgeek. (More than what is there now)

With how much readership (especially the types of readers) slashdot gets, it's really pathetic that there has not been a sound path to profitability. They have an entire web community rallying around them and they can't even figure out how much money it costs to run slashdot.

And on a side note:
I refuse to subscribe until I am not $rtbl'd and have an apology for receiving that treatment.

Re:It's a kind of intellectual arrogance. (1)

TheKey (465831) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122306)

Do you think that Rob does that stuff? It was in the forum - he said he's just in charge of content. There's probably a financial sector that takes care of that stuff. Believe me, they'll never see what you just posted.

Hemos, Taco: You blew it. (5, Interesting)

Dan Crash (22904) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122223)

I just want to say two things:

First, the notion that "posting is payment enough!" is a troll. Posting doesn't pay the bandwidth bills. I think it's sad that Slashdot has become a victim of its own popularity, but I understand their need to search out new sources of revenue. I'm not even against it.

On the other hand: Sorry Hemos, Taco, but it doesn't sound like you put *any* thought into this subscription plan at all. (Proof: grep the IRC log for "i dunno", see how many times Taco says it.) Shouldn't you guys have thought this out before you implemented the thing? Isn't that the first rule of programming?

And, not to be too pointed, but what about asking us what we want? For a site which prides itself on providing community, I'm profoundly disappointed in the way Slashdot rolled this out.

You had a real chance to change the world here. What is Slashdot supposedly about? Open Source. Imagine if you'd practiced what we all preach: You could've let the Slashdot community propose and moderate the features they most wanted in a subscription service. Like Google, you could have shown all the failing dotcoms that, if you give the customer exactly what they want, you'll be successful where everyone else fails.

You had a chance to lead the way, and you blew it. The current plan seems like -- forgive me - a Microsoft patch. Poorly thought out, badly implemented, causing more problems than it fixes.

You could still do this right, you know. And I'll probably pay a few bucks because I know how much I've enjoyed reading Slashdot. But I can't help feeling like this is the beginning of the end. Here's hoping you pull this together, and thanks for the memories if it turns out you can't.

Re:Hemos, Taco: You blew it. (2, Interesting)

anthony_dipierro (543308) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122323)

Posting doesn't pay the bandwidth bills.

Sure it does. Without posts no one would pay for slashdot. No one. In true RIAA fashion, slashdot has resorted to profiting off other people's content. Sure, they provide the bandwidth and the name recognition. They market my words. It's starting to sound a hell of a lot like the RIAA now. About the only differences are that the RIAA only takes 99% of the profits, whereas slashdot takes 100%, and that the RIAA is successful, whereas slashdot isn't, yet...

They probably wouldn't need this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122224)

If people weren't sucking up the bandwidth just to get first p0st.

I won't subscribe! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122226)

First I was afraid
I was very sad
Kept thinking I could never read
a slashdot full of ads
But I had oh so many posts
Smacked down for saying jamie's wrong
I grew strong
I learned how to carry on..
So now there's ads
More of the same
I just logged on to find them here
Between the news and all the flames
I should have changed my fucking hosts
I should have switched my uid
If I had known for just one second
they'd be back to bother me

So off I go - I'm out the door
Just turn around now
'Cause I'm not reading anymore
Weren't you the one who hit me with $rtbl
You think I'm quelled
You think I'd just go to hell --
Oh no, not I
I won't subscribe
As long as I know how to post
I know I'll be alive
I've got all my life to live
I've got all my posts to give
I won't subscribe
I won't subscribe

It took all the strength I had
Not to read this thread
Kept trying hard to ban
slashdot addiction from my head
And I spent oh so many nights
Just posting crap at minus one
Used to be fun ...
But now I want to cut and run
And you see me at
Another site
I'm not that stupid little user
Reading every night
And so you felt like dropping in
And just expect me to be free
Now I'm saving all my comments
For someone who's loving me

So off I go - I'm out the door
Just turn around now
'Cause I'm not reading anymore
Weren't you the one who hit me with $rtbl
You think I'm quelled
You think I'd just go to hell --
Oh no, not I
I won't subscribe
As long as I know how to post
I know I'll be alive
I've got all my life to live
I've got all my posts to give
I won't subscribe
I won't subscribe

Hey hey...

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ignored question (1, Insightful)

DarkSkiesAhead (562955) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122236)


<Questions> Scoria asks: Has the Slashdot crew considered offering multiple levels of subscription? For example: $5/mo. removes the ads, $10/mo. permits you access to a 'subscribers only' comment tree for every article (it'd be devoid of trolls, given the fact most wouldn't pay for a /. subscription), etc. Furthermore, why doesn't Slashdot simply charge by the amount of bandwidth consumed?

<CmdrTaco> next

Those were interesting suggestions, taco really shouldn't have ignored the question. I don't necessarily like the idea of a "subscribers only" comment tree, but taco's reaction does not reflect well on the willingness of the /. administrators to consider our input.

Re:ignored question (2, Informative)

thelenm (213782) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122259)

Probably the reason it was ignored was because the exact same question was asked (by the exact same person) and answered earlier in the discussion.

Re:ignored question (1)

Phocker_ (459054) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122324)

Actually if you read on a bit he actually does reply..he was saying next to the previous question

Finances (Slightly Off-Topic) (2)

Wire Tap (61370) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122239)

I know that Slashdot is now part of a company, so there are probably gobs of legal issues (albeit, very stupid ones) that go against my idea, but, why not put out the finances of Slashdot for everyone to see? This way the users can see what's really going on, and maybe even develop a solution that does not necessarily charging the small lot of people who actually make Slashdot the place to be?

Just my idea . . . after all, this is a community that advocates "open" things.

# of subscribers (1)

bloop bloops (554216) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122244)

they said 1.5 % of viewers signed up within the first week, so you gotta figure that that's between 10-15k people by now, at 5$ a pop. so figure they have gotten between 50-75k. i don't see what the whole big deal is... whoo remove the ads. even the new big ones aren't that bad. have they considered more FEATURES...?

I really had no idea. (1)

Sase (311326) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122250)

I guess I'm not that "involved" but I had no clue whatsoever about this subscription status, heh.

After reading this, I went and immediately to throw in my tip :)

Maybe this 'subscription' should be more publicised? I think that would increase the amount of 'signups' 10-fold

hrm..

Here's an idea (2, Funny)

Jesse Duke (559062) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122252)

to support /. *and* get rid of the stupid ads *and* not pay the submission : modify junkbuster slightly so that, on certain urls (/. ads), instead of filtering them by breaking the download altogether, the url is downloaded and sent straight to /dev/null, and the browser is sent an empty image (or told that the image is not available).

Time to get coding :)

Foolish (0, Troll)

eo (7103) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122264)

I love Slashdot, but CT & Hemos, you look like idiots bumbling your way through explaining why we should pay to keep you employed. No sale.

have a regular raffle/lottery (1)

guest12 (248543) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122270)

to keep them forking out $5 have a monthly lottery with prizes worth at least $100 each. the annual prizes could be really big ones like a powerful server, a vacation , things like that. the monthly ones could be LED flashlights or slashmugs thinkgeek stuff, a crate of beer or whatever VA marketing suits can think of.

of course, there's a slashtv appearance possible too for the lucky winner.

Re:have a regular raffle/lottery (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122339)

that's probably illegal in enough states to get them in big trouble.

My favorite CmdrTaco quote... (3, Funny)

Dimwit (36756) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122276)

I have to do a radio interview at 10 tonight, and eat dinner.

I'd like to watch Junkyard wars w/ kathleen ;)

but I'll keep going for a bit.


Dear lord, I want this man's life. My fiancee won't even watch a movie with me if it has a computer in it. *sigh* Some bastards have all the luck.

Now, to be on topic: I think this could've been handled a bit better. I think people would've been more open to the whole thing, had the term "tip jar" been used from the beginning, instead of "subscription"...

But, what's past is past...

Slashdot's new business model (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122278)

A guy walks into the public library one day... Okay, it isn't the public library anymore, they've been privatized for about a decade, but people still call it that. Anyway, the guy walks into the library, and the head librarian walks up to him.

"Welcome to the Infotronobeam(r) Public Library! Our increasing costs means we have to look for new sources of income. Unfortunately the ad posters on the ends of the stacks aren't generating enough, and we have to seek financing from those who use our library."

"Aw, damn," the man says. "You mean you're going to start charging me to borrow books? If you do, I'm just going to leave and go to some other library!"

"No, no," the librarian says, smiling. "You still get as many books as you want for free."

"Um, okay... So what exactly do I have to pay for?"

"Nothing," she says, still smiling. "That is, unless you want me to stop doing... this! WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP!" She draws in a deep breath. "WOOP WOOP WOOP-"

"Stop! Stop!" the man cries. "Okay, what do I have to do to make you not do... that?"

"Oh, it's simple! You just pay five Northamericos, and you can check out a hundred books without any audio accompaniment. You can even choose if you only want certain kinds of books... For example, I could be silent in the Non-Fiction section, but shout WOOP when you go into the Childrens Literature section. It's like a tip jar!"

"Okay... Wait. How is that like a tip jar?"

"You're giving me a tip for my great service!"

"The great service of not screaming incessantly?"

"That's right! So, do you want to put some money in the tip jar?" the librarian asks, holding out the glass jar, shaking it as if in invitation. The few lonely Pentium pieces in the jar rattle. It seems not many have jumped at the opportunity.

"No, I think I'll pass... I just want to check out books."

The librarian gets a stern look on her face as she draws in her breath. "WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP WOOP..."

At that point the man remembers he has some earplugs in his pocket. He puts them in his ears, and the woman's screaming dulls down to be almost unnoticeable. Smiling, he goes about looking for a book, with the librarian following, becoming increasingly frustrated. He notices suddenly that everyone else seems to be wearing earplugs as well... He laughs, thinking that the "tip jar" is going to remain pretty empty...

Re:Slashdot's new business model (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122304)

"At that point the man remembers he has some earplugs in his pocket. He puts them in his ears, and the woman's screaming dulls down to be almost unnoticeable. Smiling, he goes about looking for a book, with the librarian following, becoming increasingly frustrated. He notices suddenly that everyone else seems to be wearing earplugs as well... He laughs, thinking that the "tip jar" is going to remain pretty empty..."

Added images.slashdot.org to my Hosts file. No more ads.

Ahhhh earplugs.

Amortized costs (1)

the_other_one (178565) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122281)

{hemos} Amoritized costs for 30 servers
additional hardware costs
then travel expenses and all that.

{CmdrTaco} Hemos knows what "Amoritized Costs" are :)

{hemos} Heh.15:46
Amortized Costs:
When a business buys a computer it pays the cost up front


What is the generally accepted amortization period for computer hardware?. Do you go by Moores Law (18 Months for processor speed to double) or Gates Law (12 Months for software speed to halve)?

So that's what those young kids are calling it now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122284)

<CmdrTaco> I'd like to watch Junkyard wars w/ kathleen ;)

I wonder what "watch Junkyard wars" is a code word for...

What cmdrtaco et al should do... (2, Insightful)

Squeezer (132342) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122288)

Slashdot.org is essentially a website that links to news stories that in a short period has grown into a large fan base. Everyone in IT knows that it is very diffuclt to put a meal on the table by running a website alone. What cmdrtaco and the rest of the slashdot moderators, admins, and etc should do is run slashdot.org on their spare time after hours and get regular 9 to 5 jobs. They could make more money by getting regular jobs and working on slashdot on their spare time.

They could have moderator time slots where moderators work a rotating schedule to scan the stories for ones that should be posted. The slashcode is essentially complete except for ongoing changes to support the new ad based system. So if they got regular jobs they would make more money, still have ad revenue from the banner ad at the top, and they would put slashcode into maintainence mode. It would cut down on the number of headaches, which is always good.

So.. I'm still confused.. (4, Funny)

XaXXon (202882) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122290)

Do you guys plan on offering any payment types other than slashdot?

And what about a flat payment rate?

I wish you guys had addressed these important issues in your IRC forum. Also, I can't be bothered to read FAQ's, the original article, the entire web log, or anything else pertaining to the questions I'm asking. Please send me a uu-encoded, ROT13'd, PGP'd, and backwards response to all my questions or I'll keep asking them over and over and over...

Slashdot and ads.. (1)

VPN3000 (561717) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122294)

The only thing I can say about these ads is:

Make the website ugly and the ads obtrusive, and I'll find another site that's less commercialized to read.

I think I speak for 98.4% of the people out there, when I say I am not going to pay to use a message board. Especially one where 1/3 of all the posts are either exaggerated, inaccurate or have very immature comments posted along with them.

Don't bother flaming me on my opinions, Just mod me down to silence my thoughts if you must.

Victor

Ads? Who has a better answer? (1)

GammaStorm (221702) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122295)

After many years of strolling through the halls of /. I wondered how long it would take until the ownership had to take drastic measures to keep it going. After all, if some normal website can get /.'ed by just a link, just how much traffic do you think this site gets?

Let's get real, bandwidth costs money. I see so many posts from people telling the management that they should be pioneers and develop a newer, better, flashier way to keep the site going that won't annoy them , but fail to come up with any plausible ideas themselves. Believe me, if I had an idea for the next money making idea on the internet, I certainly wouldn't tell anyone here, but i find it hypocritical of posters to tell them to be innovative but yet they haven't a clue where to go with that idea.

My motto has always been not to criticize or complain without at least a decent alternative to the crappiness I'm concerned about. If I had a better idea for them, I'd share it. I'm not a big fan of flashy ads, but if it will help pay their bills, I certainly will tolerate it until such time as one of you geniuses comes up with something better and cost effective.

An excerpt (3, Funny)

HongPong (226840) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122298)

<CmdrTaco> We hope that enough users want Slashdot to still be here in a few years.
<hemos> I just don't wnat you to. :)

Says it all, really, don't it? :-D

New Options (5, Insightful)

chrae (159904) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122316)

Maybe there should be an option for subscribers (or non-subscribers) to moderate ads. Underneath the ads there could be options like:

  • +1 Interesting
    +1 Clever
    +1 Relevant
    -1 Annoying
    -1 Irrelevant
    -1 Stupid

You don't have to moderate ads, but you can if you want to. I'm sure potential advertisers would just love to get that kind of data. Might increase the value of particular adspace or markets. Like if 90% of people love X's ads and products they'll be much more likely to advertise on slashdot, and I'm sure competing company Y would love that adspace too.

Just a thought.

So... (1, Troll)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122328)

...will this ad revenue help fund a development server? It's really pathetic (and highly unprofessional) the way slashdot's database goes offline a few times a week, and the way changes are made to the main site in seemingly haphazard fashion (like the addition and subsequent backing-out of ads). I, for one, won't pay for something this unreliable, no matter what the little "uptime" slashbox tells me.

Also, can we maybe buy a spell checker with all this money? Or hire someone to read things before they're posted?

- A.P.

Oh my aching eyes! (1)

nice (144965) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122329)

That was physically painful to read. Just because you are on IRC does not mean you are excused from NOT splitting up sentences or forming them properly.

Re:Oh my aching eyes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3122352)

imagine trying to run that thru the lameness filter...

Here's An Idea... (0, Redundant)

icejai (214906) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122332)

Why not have slashdot set up mirrors of link to an article that they post, and then slashdot readers pay like, 0.5 to 2 cents to access the mirror when the site gets slashdotted.

This way, users won't be frustrated anymore through slashdotted servers, and slashdot can get some money for providing a nice feature that the majority of users won't mind paying for. Not to mention, a slashdot mirror is something that we've been needing for a while now.

If this is implemented, I wouldn't mind paying up to 10 cents for access to this feature.

I'm sure many other slashdotters wouldn't mind either.

Slashdot is MAKING MONEY from subscriptions. (1)

samr7 (112265) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122333)

Observe the OSDN Self-Serve Ad System [osdn.com]

For $400, they'll put your ad on 100,000 page hits,
which amounts to 250 ad-enabled pages for $1.
For $5, they'll take away the ad on 1000 page hits,
which amounts to 200 ad-disabled pages for $1.

Given that the reverse of this was claimed on the chat session, I feel an explanation is in order.

I'd be happy to subscribe (0, Redundant)

stormcoder (564750) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122336)

As soon as there is another option than PayPal.

And once again .. (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122340)

People demonstrate that they just don't get it.
Shades of 1999. Let's make money on the Internet by selling nothing.

1. Computer hardware is expensive and difficult to maintain
2. Bandwith is expensive
3. Therefore, people should pay for /. even though there is nothing here worth paying for.

Walmart makes a gazillion dollars a year because it sells things that people actually want and need.

/. is free because that's exactly what it's worth.

Taco admits he doesn't even read the articles... (1, Troll)

anthony_dipierro (543308) | more than 12 years ago | (#3122344)

I just read the submission and decide based on that.
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