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Gnome 2.0 Beta 2 Released

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the step-by-step-inch-by-inch dept.

GNOME 238

plastercast writes: "Following the release of GTK2, the second beta of gnome 2.0 is available. There are also release notes here. From Gnotices: 'The GNOME 2.0 Desktop is a greatly improved user environment for existing GNOME applications. Enhancements include anti-aliased text and first class internationalisation support, new accessibility features for disabled users, and many improvements throughout GNOME's highly regarded user interface.'"

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238 comments

the world goes boom (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138822)

but at least we have gnome 2.0

Re: but at least we have gnome 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138945)

and we still have AC's getting First Post.

Another triumph for the AC.

Re: but at least we have gnome 2.0 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139212)

Ever done a gnome up the butt? Theyre not just good for lawn ornaments you know.

COMMON SLASHDOT MYTHS (-1)

returnofthe_spork (552824) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138825)

Myth: Linux is ready for the desktop.
Fact: Linux is not, and never will be, ready for the desktop. If you use Linux as your desktop choice, you are an anti-social nerd who will never get laid.

Myth: Open-source is a viable business strategy.
Fact: No it isn't. [yahoo.com]

Myth: Slashdot is a nice place to go for intelligent conversation about technology and political issues.
Fact: Slashdot is full of 14 year-old fanboys who toe the party line for the "approval" of people they will never meet and fascist Janitors who resort to low minded trickery and censorship to further their narrow world-view and agenda. If you want to read posts that are Insightful and Funny, read at -1.

Myth: Information wants to be free.
Fact: Musicians want to be paid.

Myth: Constantly putting down popular music and culture shows your uber-intelligence and good taste.
Fact: Constantly putting down popular music and culture shows you are a stuck-up fuckwit with no friends.

Myth: The government is taking away our rights. WAAAAH!!
Fact: While you're busy complaining and stuffing your fat face with pork rinds and cheese puffs, the government is busy keeping you, and the American way of life, safe from harm.

Myth: Libertarianism is a good solution to our problems.
Fact: Libertarianism would result in a worse country than the USSR, with political and economic instability, horrific human rights violations, and exploitation of workers of a scale not seen since slavery was outlawed.

Myth: Microsoft is an evil monopoly bent on world domination.
Fact: Microsoft is a software company based in Redmond, WA, that produces fine software and believes that programmers should get paid for their work.

Have I missed any?

I am heartened to see (-1)

Commienst (102745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138871)

I am heartened to see someone else knows about the dangers of Libertarianism.

Ayn Rand and the perversion of libertarianism

The political controversy of the late 19th century was:

whether socialists (all those who believed in the individual's right to possess what he or she produced) should engage in the political process, seize control of the state, and use the state apparatus to achieve liberation;
or, whether a worker's state was inherently contradictory, counter revolutionary, and would only lead to the creation of a new ruling class whose interests would still clash with those of the ruled - that the state should be abolished allowing for no transitional stage of any kind during which power may have the chance to reconsolidate itself.

The situation has recreated itself with amazing similarity almost exactly a century later. Non-libertarian parties the world over (those who see authoritarian centralization as the bulwark of civilization) are bankrupt, economically and intellectually. The only viable intellectual current today falls under that ambiguous term - "libertarian."

Today there exist beneath this umbrella as many splinter groups as there were a hundred years ago under the umbrella of socialism. Two distinct trends, a right and a left if you will, are clearly discernible. One group, clearly the largest with a hierarchical organization modeled on the other political parties, believes, like most Marxists, in constitutional parliamentary republican democracy. They believe that the state is a necessary guarantor of individual safety and the product of the individual's labor, and in gradual progress toward a free society through participation in the political process. The other group, much smaller and far more splintered, rejects the state as necessarily a tool of class domination and exploitation. This group believes that what Bakunin said a hundred years ago is as true today, "If you took the most ardent revolutionary, vested him in absolute power, within a year he would be worse than the Czar himself."

The first group is in all fairness a direct inheritor of the ideals of the American Revolution. In modern times, however, it has only two roots: (1) the Austrian school of economics represented by Ludwig Von Mises; (2) the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Von Mises never considered the libertarians. He answered the Marxists and the Keynesians and defended laissez-faire capitalism at a time when no one else would. His justification for capitalism was empirical - the greatest good for the greatest number. Ayn Rand, however, attempted to offer a moral justification of capitalism by substituting the word `capitalism' for the libertarian meaning of the word "socialism." She then attributed all of the ills of capitalism to government interference with the market and all of the world's wealth to the minds of the men whom the world considered the robber barons.

The contrast between Ayn Rand's "Objectivism" and libertarianism is deeper than mere substitution of terminology, however. Several of her propositions or axioms place her clearly outside of the libertarian tradition. Her justification of the state is derived from a Hobbesian state of nature theory:

... a society without an organized government would be at the mercy of the first criminal who came along and who would precipitate it into chaos and gang warfare.... [The Virtue of Selfishness, 152; pb 112]

If a society provided no organized protection against force, it would compel every citizen to go about armed, to turn his home into a fortress, to shoot any strangers approaching his door - or to join a protective gang of citizens who would fight other gangs, formed for the same purpose, and thus bring about the degeneration of society into the chaos of gang rule, i.e., rule by brute force, into perpetual warfare of prehistoric savages. [Ibid., 146; pb 108]

Ayn Rand's belief in the inherent depravity of human nature which renders us forever incapable of living without rulers and not descending to the level of `savages', clearly places her outside of the libertarian tradition which views human nature as essentially good, capable of indefinite improvement through the experience of freedom and the exercise of reason. Her knowledge of anthropology is as embarrassing as her understanding of history. For example, in regards to her conception of who are the savages, she describes America as, "...a superlative material achievement in the midst of an untouched wilderness, against the resistance of savage tribes." [For The New Intellectual, 58; pb 50]

To Rand, the essential characteristic of the state is that it possesses a monopoly on the use of retaliatory force. How does she justify this monopoly or national sovereignty? She accepts it as a given, something not requiring a justification, and demands that an-archy, the negation of the proposition, justify itself. Her concept of national sovereignty is then something transcendental, existing separate and apart from individuals, and beyond the right of the individual to accept or reject according to his or her own reason. These propositions clearly place Ayn Rand's philosophy closer to Hobbes, Hegel, and Marx, than to libertarianism.

The state, according to Miss Rand, must hold a monopoly on the enforcement of contracts and the settling of disputes between individuals, at least whenever this arbitration is not accepted by both sides voluntarily. She fails to consider that the enforcement of contracts by the state fundamentally alters the nature of free agreements. Agreements are made on terms which otherwise might not be, because they are justiciable.

The terms of "free agreements" under law are titled in favor of lenders over debtors, landlords over tenants, employers over employees, in a way which would not exist in a "free market." This leveraging of power is not `objective' at all. Depending purely on legal convention, creditors may have debtors imprisoned, tenants may be evicted without notice and their effects confiscated, one human being may own another or the land on which another lives and works, all to varying degrees.

To understand Ayn Rand's psychology it is helpful to know her background. She was born to a wealthy St. Petersburg family in 1905. The position of her family in Czarist society must have been considerable. At a time when the lives of most Russians had changed little since feudalism, her family was wealthy enough to afford a French Governess and take regular vacations to the Crimea.

It should be noted that wealth in Czarist society was almost wholly a measure of one's favor with the government. There were few if any Horatio Alger stories about individuals who lifted themselves out of serfdom without the patronage of the Czar.

At the age of twelve, she must have been very upset when those nasty workers took over her father's business. Her family fled St. Petersburg for the Crimea and the protection of the White Army. This experience rendered her forever incapable of seeing land reform or any struggle of oppressed and exploited people as anything more than hatred for the good and lust for the unearned.

She shared with Marx the bourgeois ideology that only a few people were capable of running things. The masses ought to be happy to have a job working for bosses. Any suggestion that an enterprise could be run by the employees without having someone in charge was to her absurd.

She shared with Godwin and Kropotkin the belief that the individual is born tabula rasa - a blank slate, and all human knowledge is derived from sense experience. She then proceeded, however, to completely dismiss environment and socialization as the determining factor in the development of character.

People were to her good or evil, brilliant or indolent, depending solely on their volition. People should be judged by their actions with equal severity regardless of their condition. Though she insisted that the United States was not and never had been a completely free country, she granted no such thing as extenuating circumstances when judging an individual and had no qualms upholding the power of the state to inflict capital punishment.

A far more sinister legacy of Ayn Rand to libertarianism is that of a moralizing autocrat who gathered about her an inner circle which she ironically called, "The collective." Outwardly, this collective professed egoism and individuality. They were to be the vanguard of an intellectual renaissance. The price of admission to this group, however, was slavish conformity of one's life and professed philosophy to Ayn Rand's whims and eccentricities. For example, she did not like men who wore facial hair or listened to Mozart, and if you didn't give them up you were unfit for Rand's inner circle. This is particularly sinister if one considers that Karl Marx, believed by millions to be the very symbol of liberation, was also an autocrat who, though professed to be the ultimate champion of democracy, resorted to extraordinary means to maintain control of the International Workingmen's Association. He even moved its headquarters to New York to exclude the libertarian influence.

Today Ayn Rand is gone, but like Marx a century ago, hers is the primary influence on the largest libertarian organization existing. Even the pledge which all Libertarian Party members must sign is taken directly from her admonition, "I hereby certify that I do not believe in or advocate the initiation of force as a means of achieving political or social goals." In spite of their pledge to non-violence, many libertarians are frustrated with election laws and media censorship. An argument which circulates among libertarians of the right is that, if they were more threatening, the government may take steps to accommodate them as it did the black civil rights movement.

Ayn Rand's writings are not entirely consistent on the point of non-violence either. In The Fountainhead, Howard Roark resorts to the use of dynamite. In Atlas Shrugged, Ragnar Danneskjold engages in piracy on the high seas and even shells a factory which has been nationalized. In a clandestine rescue mission, Dagny Taggart shoots a guard who stood in the way of her desired end.

In the event of economic upheaval, ruined by unemployment and inflation, tenants and home owners may refuse to make rent and mortgage payments. The unemployed may seize vacant land and begin to farm, and factory workers may realize they can run things without stock holders. It would not be at all surprising if there were to emerge within the libertarian right, groups committed to direct action and counter revolutionary violence, even a coup d'etat.

Imagine a charismatic and autocratic personality at the center of such a group and you have the Objectivist Lenin. Like the Marxists and right libertarians, Lenin and the Objectivists are professed republican democrats. Lenin and the Bolsheviks promised that if given power, they would immediately convoke a constituent assembly. When they realized, however, they would not hold a majority in such an assembly they turned against the idea of such an assembly.

Can anyone doubt that the cultist mentality which characterizes most of Miss Rand's followers could lead to the creation of a group of self-appointed avengers of the capitalist class? That they would suppress strikes, demonstrations, and factory take overs? That they would not execute people for crimes against the libertarian state?

Ayn Rand believed in a republican form of government with a cleverly constructed constitution which would deny the majority of the power to infringe on the rights of a minority as she conceived them. If the majority supported a general strike against rents and mortgages and supported the factory takeovers, would not the clandestinely organized Objectivist libertarian party be tempted to dispense with democracy in order to enforce what they conceived of as the rights of the dispossessed bourgeoisie?

In all fairness it must be admitted that Ayn Rand herself would never sanction such actions, but the same argument is made everyday by western Marxists that Marx would probably not have sanctioned many of Lenin's actions and would certainly not take credit for the Soviet Union.

Lenin and the Bolsheviks won power by promising, "Land to the peasants!" "Factories to the workers!" When they took power, however, they immediately set about liquidating the factory committees and nationalizing the land. They crushed work place democracy by installing armed guards in the factories, and even returned former owners to their positions as employees of the worker's state. Leon Trotsky stopped the practice of soldiers electing their officers from their ranks and even restored former Czarist officers to their ranks in the Red Army.

When the Russian Revolution began few people clearly understood the gulf which separated the state socialists from the libertarians. Many dedicated libertarians like Alexander Berkman, rallied to the Bolshevik cause, willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in hopes that seizing state power would only be a transitional stage toward the development of the stateless/classless society.

Many sincere lovers of liberty now flock to the standard of the Libertarian Party, as they did the Bolsheviks, completely ignorant of the history of the last century. As Santayana said: "Those who forget the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them."

What should be done? It should be obvious that government enforcement of private contracts is not libertarian any more than is taking state power to set people free. Libertarianism is and always will mean socialism - the self-emancipation of working people.

Libertarians must stop courting the Republican right and return to their intellectual roots. By standing outside of the political process we deny the state legitimacy, and like the state torturers in Atlas Shrugged, they will come and beg for libertarians to take over.

Remembering the experience of the Spanish libertarians, and heeding the advice of John Galt, libertarians must refuse state power even when begged. The state can never be a tool of liberation. Only its complete and utter collapse will allow for the emergence of non-statist institutions, libertarian co-ops, communes, and free markets, to flourish and displace the political state once and for all.

Re:COMMON SLASHDOT MYTHS (2, Insightful)

flacco (324089) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139088)

Fact: Linux is not, and never will be, ready for the desktop.

Clue 1: Linux IS ready for the desktop.
Clue 2: You cannot predict the future.

Myth: Open-source is a viable business strategy.
Fact: No it isn't. [yahoo.com]

Clue 1: Open source is a development model, not a business anything.
Clue 2: Citing a company's stock performance is pretty much entirely irrelevant to open source.
Clue 3: Allow me to cite a stock: Microsoft. Huge stock value, huge bank accounts. You know whose money that used to be? Software USERS' money. Open source is first and foremost good for software USERS - including companies who are not in the business of selling software. You know it. I know it. Microsoft knows it. They're scared shitless.

Myth: Slashdot is a nice place to go for intelligent conversation about technology and political issues.
Fact: Slashdot is full of 14 year-old fanboys who toe the party line for the "approval" of people they will never meet and fascist Janitors who resort to low minded trickery and censorship to further their narrow world-view and agenda. If you want to read posts that are Insightful and Funny, read at -1.

Both the myth and fact have elements of truth. And please continue to piss off the 14-year-olds. After all, they're the decision-makers and software customers of the future, and a healthy ingrained dislike for Microsoft toadies inculcated at an early age can only be good.

Myth: Information wants to be free.
Fact: Musicians want to be paid.

Clue 1: Musicians want to be paid
Clue 2: ...almost as much as I want non-crippled consumer electronics that don't assume I'm a thieving scumbag.

Myth: Constantly putting down popular music and culture shows your uber-intelligence and good taste.
Fact: Constantly putting down popular music and culture shows you are a stuck-up fuckwit with no friends.

Clue 1: Popular music and popular culture are a sickly green phlem whose only two purposes are 1) to stick to and remove money from the purses and wallets of naive prepubescent idiots and no-nothing wage-slaves who labor only to enrich their nakedly contempuous corporate masters, and 2) make the veins on my forehead throb as I ponder the worth of continuing to live.
Clue 2: I'm a stuck-up fuckwit with no friends.

Myth: The government is taking away our rights. WAAAAH!!
Fact: While you're busy complaining and stuffing your fat face with pork rinds and cheese puffs, the government is busy keeping you, and the American way of life, safe from harm.

Another misuse of the either-or proposition. They're both true - paradoxical.

Myth: Libertarianism is a good solution to our problems.
Fact: Libertarianism would result in a worse country than the USSR, with political and economic instability, horrific human rights violations, and exploitation of workers of a scale not seen since slavery was outlawed.

Libertarianism is good because it strives to control the concentration of power in goverment. It sucks because it does nothing to control the power of wealth.

Myth: Microsoft is an evil monopoly bent on world domination.

Yes they are, just like any corporation, whose only reason for existence is to enrich its shareholders. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but let's recognize and admit the obvious.

Fact: Microsoft is a software company based in Redmond, WA,

Well, you got that right.

that produces fine software

Depending on which definition of the word "fine" you're using, I could agree or disagree with you.

and believes that programmers should get paid for their work.

Well, I'm all for getting paid. I'd just rather get paid to write software that is open, standards-compliant, and is friendly with other open standards-compliant software. Microsoft, on the other hand, does absolutely everything in its power to make choosing Microsoft software a one-way proposition. Basically it's a big Labrea Tarpit-like Roach Motel for unsuspecting software developers and users - you can check in, but you can't check out.

Have I missed any?

Well, you were all over the map with sporadic accuracy and no real focus aside from your own personal frustrations and feelings of inadequacy, so it's kind of hard to say.

Re:COMMON SLASHDOT MYTHS (-1)

returnofthe_spork (552824) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139195)

Both the myth and fact have elements of truth. And please continue to piss off the 14-year-olds. After all, they're the decision-makers and software customers of the future, and a healthy ingrained dislike for Microsoft toadies inculcated at an early age can only be good.
You Open-Sauce Zealots are really something, you know that? Here you are talking about brainwashing innocent children into thinking bad things about a software company, but when Microsoft tries to give software to schools you rant and scream like it's the end of the world.

Just please, grow up already.

Thank you.

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138833)

WHOSYERDADDY

Freudian Dyslexia (-1, Troll)

Knunov (158076) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138834)

I thought I read, "...new accessibility features for disabled users, and many improvements throughout GNOME's highly retarded user interface."

doh!

Knunov

Re:Freudian Dyslexia (-1, Troll)

einer (459199) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138857)

Freudian? You mean you dislike disabled people? Can't say I blame you, they get all the good parking spots, and they can shoplift at will...

Mirror (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138846)

I have mirrored the files at my website here [yourethemannowdog.com] .

installing gnome2.0 beta (1)

gol64738 (225528) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138850)

does anyone know if gnome2.0 beta can be installed via red-carpet?

Re:installing gnome2.0 beta (2, Interesting)

JanneM (7445) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138915)

There's a Gnome2 snapshot channel there (it's down this weekend, though). I wouldn't expect the second beta to show up until monday at the earliest.

It is a pretty convenient way to test it out; all the Gnome1 programs will of course still work as usual. It _is_ a Beta, of course, so don't expect a pillar of stability :)

GNOME 2.0 (4, Informative)

nzkoz (139612) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138851)

For those of you who aren't too keen on manually downloading all the individual packages and their dependencies, you may wish to try garnome (http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/garnome/).

It behaves a bit like the BSD ports tree as it'll download and install all the necessary packages. Even better, it'll install them in an out-of-the-way place so you can keep running gnome1.2!

Re:GNOME 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138912)

come again sir?

IOW, please explain in clear english non-ub3r-g33k talk!

Re:GNOME 2.0 (1, Interesting)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138937)


Why dont they just release one big RPM ?

Re:GNOME 2.0 (3, Informative)

nzkoz (139612) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138997)

Because a few of the libraries (libxml, libxslt etc.) are useful without the whole gnome desktop, and some packages aren't needed by everyone.

If you want an easy way to install gnome, use Ximian's redcarpet or the garnome system.

Re:GNOME 2.0 (3, Informative)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138999)

Why dont they just release one big RPM ?

Because that would be Compeltely Retarded(TM) and go against the whole damn idea of having things installed as components.

On the other hand, a nice little gtk-perl/pygtk frontend to a downloader script would be great.

Also, if you use Ximian Gnome, there is a "Gnome 2 Developer Snapshots" channel that you can use to get everything in just a few clicks...

Re:GNOME 2.0 (0, Flamebait)

thammoud (193905) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139030)

It seems to me that you are the one that is retarded. When I install MS office, I just click on one executable and there it goes. I do not download the hunder of separate "components" that make it up.

Re:GNOME 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139074)

hey, maybe you should just stick with windows then!

Re:GNOME 2.0 (1)

spectral (158121) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139086)

When installing office, you shouldn't download ANY of the components, otherwise it's probably illegal :) If they released it on CD, it'd be kinda odd to not have a somewhat decent installer. But here, the best they could/should do is a front end downloader.. or just expect people to wait til their distribution does it for them.

Re:GNOME 2.0 (2)

uchian (454825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139174)

Ummm... you don't download them, but the install _is_ package/component based

Or have you never noticed the "Custom" option during installation :-P

* * *

An OT annecdote - MS Office and how I converted to Linux.

Windows 98 was starting to p*ss me off again - ever time I tried to load it, it was getting slower and slower, so I guessed I had to free up some hard drive space - I was running pretty low. I started uninstalling some software that I didn't use very often. Each and every one required me to reboot the computer (WHY?!?). Still, it wasn't speeding up. So I uninstalled MS Office 97. Hey - I wasn't using it much anyway, and I have it on CD.

Tumpty tumpty tum, Uninstall complete, Windows must now restart.

Tumpty tumpty tum, rebooting... Cannot find win.com

"WTF???"

So I gave up, reformatted the harddrive and gave linux a try.

That was 6 months ago.

Re:GNOME 2.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139190)

Sounds like a filesystem problem to me, but one never knows.

Bloatware (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138990)

How much space does GARNOME require to build?
On my x86 system, GARNOME 0.7.0 requires 1.1GB as build space, and 206MB once installed

206MB for a fucking window manager/desktop enviroment? Hell you can install win95 in less space and still have more apps and a consistent interface.

Gnome Kaputnik! Hail KDE! (-1, Troll)

Commienst (102745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138852)

Gnome started for one reason and one reason only: RMS didn't agree with the KDE developers' interpretation of the GPL wrt the QT library. Gnome was set up with the intention of creating FUD to delay the uptake of the best thing to ever happen to desktop Linux and to bluff and bully the KDE crowd into getting the QT licencing changed.

Yes, you heard it right, Gnome was *deliberately* started to be "bickering, competing and incompatible" and to stop Linux having a single desktop standard if that standard was to be KDE.

The licence issue is *long* in the past. That out of the way, the Gnome crowd should have had to decency to either scrap Gnome completely (as did those working on the Harmony project, which was developing a GPL QT clone) so we could unite behind KDE or keep Gnome going as a low key longer-term hacker R&D project like Enlightenment. But no, we had to keep the ball rolling didn't we.

Why, given the adverse impact this has had on Linux and other target platforms?

NIH syndrome partly; a lot of big egos (many in the US) were beaten to the punch by a bunch of (mainly) German students.

And the fact that it relies on an existing library means that big egos who want to reinvent the universe can't develop their own object library; they have to do something useful.

But the main reason, irony of ironies, is that it is LGPL rather than KDE's GPL; yes folks, the desktop that began as *THE* GNU free desktop now boasts that it is more commercial-friendly. That's why Sun and HP are putting money into it. Guarantees success? Ah, look at CDE...

Gnome is an expensive, deliberately divisive vapourware project that should have been scrapped after the QT licence changes if the principals involved had any sense of decency or any *REAL* committment to free software. It continues because a bunch of pricks can't admit that they were wrong and continue to put their own giant egos ahead of the development of desktop Unix.

Meanwhile KDE continues to release in its usual methodical fashion while Gnome 2 stays as FUD. ("You may think KDE's kewl, but wait till you see Gnome 2!") Pardon me while I puke...

Gnome and the bastards who've hyped this piece of vapourware and tried to sabotage KDE for the last five years can go to Hell! Who needs Microsoft trying to pull the rug from under the free Unix's when you've got this lot! (Yes, that includes RMS, who is responsible for initiating and encouraging this debacle).

To paraphrase the end of RMS's infamous letter of "forgiveness" to the KDE developers: Go KDE!!!

Re:Gnome Kaputnik! Hail KDE! (1)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138900)

Yeah yeah yeah, I used to think that, until I noticed that many of my other linux using friends preferred GNOME to KDE, and don't want to be forced to switch to KDE.

I just wish they'd work more on interoperability

Sorry.... Rejected (-1)

Commienst (102745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138940)

Dear Troll,

We are sad to inform you that, after careful consideration , we have rejected your troll submission to the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

You show a a poor skill at trolling. Please go read Troll Howto, [geocities.com] and try again. Either that, or stick to adequacy. [adequacy.org]

Slightly repetitive... (4, Funny)

seldolivaw (179178) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138859)

the GNOME 2.0 Desktop is a greatly improved user environment for existing GNOME applications. Enhancements include anti-aliased text and first class internationalisation support, new accessibility features for disabled users, and many improvements throughout GNOME's highly regarded user interface.

Thanks for that info, it's not like we didn't read exactly that same blurb [slashdot.org] when beta 1 was released... :-)

Re:Slightly repetitive... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138898)

w00t anti-aliasing and international support....that's something that's been available since WIndows 98!!!

Re:Slightly repetitive... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138978)

Nice. How many times have we all seen "Linux does that better than Windows" craziness modded to the moon and yet here we have the exact same thing in reverse instantly silenced.

Wow, good thing there's no groupthink around Slashdot. You all must be very proud of those open minds. Pfft.

Re:Slightly repetitive... (1)

Snowfox (34467) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139010)

Nice. How many times have we all seen "Linux does that better than Windows" craziness modded to the moon and yet here we have the exact same thing in reverse instantly silenced.

Wow, good thing there's no groupthink around Slashdot. You all must be very proud of those open minds. Pfft.

It would probably have been moderated more kindly if it weren't voiced with so much sarcasm. While many wear their anti-MS blinders here, that doesn't seem to be what came into play here.

Re:Slightly repetitive... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139170)

Speaking of groupthink, it's nice to see you haven't been brainwashed by M$ propaganda. This is a company that has fucked over pretty much everybody (Netscape, BeOS, hardware vendors, etc.), but we'll run their POS because it has anti-aliased fonts. Fantastic, now i know why the hell i need to run this shit.

Also, Windoze has less than stellar performance and flexibility (file systems come to mind), which you should take into account.

Re:Slightly repetitive... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139200)

I'm glad we have freethinkers such as yourself to deliver independant information about "M$ Windoze". Thank you for elevating the discussion here, sir! This bud's for you.

release codename (5, Informative)

bob@dB.org (89920) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138861)

I bastun bor vi allihopa = we all live in the sauna (it's swedish)

Re:release codename (1)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138876)

We all live in the sauna

Amen to that! I think that's something we should all remember once the KDE/GNOME trolls start to fly: we're in this together, so let's work together.

How soon before we get cross-toolkit theming support?

It's hot in here. Let me out. (2)

scorcherer (325559) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138944)

Did you just opensource my reply [slashdot.org] to the GTK+ 2.0 post?

Seriously, it's too hot and crowded with all those packages. My plain Sawfish is working just fine, and a lot cooler.

Re:It's hot in here. Let me out. (1)

bob@dB.org (89920) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139006)

sorry, but i didn't read your comment... just saw this one and figured the question would come up. don't suppose you have any insights into why people have started codenaming in swedish lately?

I bastun bor vi allihopa (4, Funny)

Tim (686) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138963)

"I bastun bor vi allihopa = we all live in the sauna (it's swedish)"

Damn. You mean it's not "I'm cuckoo for cocoa puffs"?

All my hopes for this release are dashed.

Re:release codename (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138996)

i hate these release named for all gnome packages and sourcereleases they sound dumb.

gnome 2 final 'the i want to fuck anal cocks wife into her other eye so she walks around without seeing the light of her life because i am so fucking dumb gay and a homo fag nigger anus nigger arse then i make a cum festival with anal cocks, richard m. stallman and miguel the toiletcleaner icaza in a dark house with cool bukkake release' released today 29 march 2002.

Sweet! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138870)

ALL RIGHT!!!

More Bloat on the most Bloated desktop environment available!

And just when I thought that my computer was getting too fast, it's a good thing the GNOME project is here to waste my unneeded clock cycles!

I got bitchslapped by cmdrtaco and friends to -1 article posts...so now i just troll anonymously!

Gnome 2.0 potentially unstable? (0)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138881)

Keep in mind that right now, building the GNOME 2.0 Desktop from CVS is NOT for the faint-hearted! However, if your idea of support is prompt integration of your patches, please consider testing, using and contributing to it.

Why take the chance? Is anti-aliased text and multilanguage support really worth it?

Re:Gnome 2.0 potentially unstable? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138930)

A potentially unstable beta? Never!

Re:Gnome 2.0 potentially unstable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139039)

heh nice that you name it beta but it is more an EARLY alpha on 29 march 2002 than anything else.

woo... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138886)

Does this mean a non-PhD student can install a Linux GUI now?!!?!?

Re:woo... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139221)

yes, as long as the name is KDE. only 3 packages to download and compile. simple and easy. dont play with gnome 2 yet its not worth all the hours of compile.

Call me lazy, but... (2)

gid (5195) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138895)

If there was a way for me to grab one tarball and ./configure; make install, then I'd actually check it out this. I simply don't have the time (ok I have the time, but there's other things I should be doing) to do that to 20 different packages.

Oh and even if I did configure 20, ok now that I look at it again, 30+ packages, what's uninstallation like to clean up if I decide to go back to plain old wmaker? I've always how hated linux spreads it's files all over the place :/ Or is there a way to ./configure; make debs?

I know, there this page [gnome.org] which simplifies compiling a lot for stable sources, but I can't find a page like this for gnome 2 beta 2.

Re:Call me lazy, but... (1)

urmensch (314385) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138923)

this script downloads and installs it wherever you want. it takes a while though...

http://www.gnome.org/~jdub/garnome/

Re:Call me lazy, but... (1)

gid (5195) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138943)

Ya, saw that post after I already posted. I'll have to check it out.

Re:Call me lazy, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138931)

All the help you need
MonkeyTongue [monkeytongue.com]

It's all so windowesque ... (0, Offtopic)

Khazunga (176423) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138904)

... that I'll keep sticking to my ol'faithfull windowmaker.

Seriously, though, with De Icaza chasing MS tail lights on one side, and KDE creating monolitic frameworks -- kcalc has the biggest footprint I've ever seen for a calculator -- on the other, I fail to see anything appealing with the current linux desktop solutions.

Re:It's all so windowesque ... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138922)

linux:windows :: coyote:road runner

The battle of the guis (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138920)

Best on the left worst on the right
Windows 95, KDE, Windows 98, Mac OS X, BeOS, Mac os classic, Blackbox, Nextstep, Fvwm, mc, dos, vim, GNOME

Re:The battle of the guis (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138975)

funny, but your line word-wrapped in my browser and both vim and Gnome appeared all the way to the left.

NOT TROLL! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138979)

That was NOT a troll! It was just a simple opinion of all the guis that i tried over the years, and yes i HATE GNOME! Windows 95 was the best desktop ever until micro$oft had to fuck it up!

NOT TROLL AND I BELIVE YOU! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139051)

never mind my friend i recently switched from linux/gnome to windows 2000 and i think it was a good decission, things simply work and if something fuck up completely you can reinstall it within 1-2 hours instead wasting 2-3 days for gnome.

Re:NOT TROLL AND I BELIVE YOU! (0)

corps_inc (564368) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139235)

Since Windoze couldn't save preferences as Linux and most apps must be installed again. 1-2 hours I just don't believe you, 1-2 days but 2-3 days to install gnome. So you are: 1. extremly dumb secretary 2. rocket scientist Beta sources are not made for beginners! Go sell magazines

I'm not tryinng to be flamebait but (1, Troll)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138929)


Gnome needs full install RPMs. I'm on broadband and i refuse to download a file in 200 diffrent peices.

I want a 150meg RPM of Gnome2 and then i'll try it.

Guess what? (1)

Penguinoflight (517245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139209)

If you're not willing to go to any effort, why should the Gnome project worry about you?

Perhaps if you dowloaded all the rpms yourself and formed them into 1, then setup a ftp server for other like-minded people, you'd be more help.

Slashdot Submission Template! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138936)

Following the release of ________, the ______(st,nd,rd) beta of _______ x.x is available. There are also release notes here. Enhancements include ________ and __________, along with plenty of _________ and many improvements throughout _________'s highly regarded user interface! Everyone should go download it now!
[insert lame editor comment]

Congratulations! It's a boy! (-1)

Commienst (102745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139016)

Dear Troll,

We are plesed to inform you that, after careful consideration , we have accepted your troll into the Troll Library [slashdot.org] .

You show a masterful skill at trolling.

Thank you for your time and your contribution.

Speaking of Mexicans... (0, Interesting)

Commienst (102745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138959)

REVOLT IN SAN CRISTOBAL DE LAS CASAS, CHIAPAS, MÉXICO ON EVENING OF 7TH
MARCH 2002

Large crowds repel police, set police vehicles on fire, and loot supermarket
and big shops.
A carnival atmosphere prevails as crowds control the streets for over 3
hours.
Later police enter area, fire tear gas and make a reported 50 arrests
The conflict occurred in the area around the public market, a poor area
where many indigenous people live and work, and followed a police operation
against sellers of pirated merchandise.
On the morning of 8 March police with riot gear cordon off an area around
the public market.

This is an incomplete report written a few hours after the events from eye
witness reports, and info in the local press and radio. More info hopefully
to follow. Feel free to circulate but please remove e mail address.

A major revolt with thousands on the streets engulfed the area around the
public market in San Cristobal de Las Casas on the evening of 7 March.
Large crowds broke into at least 3 big stores, including a supermarket and
department store. In a festive atmosphere men, women and children joyfully
carted off large amounts of food, drink, clothes and furniture over a period
of over 2 hours. Onlookers, including women with babies, elderly people and
children watched with interest, and some shouted advice to the looters about
the best route to take to avoid the police.

Two police vehicles were set on fire and burnt in the middle of the street.
The crowd repulsed an attempt by the police to enter the area, hurling
missiles. A shop was set alight and the fire was still burning at midnight.
From before 7pm till after 10pm thousands were on the streets, and the
police seemed to have little or no presence an no control over the
situation.

The conflict reportedly started at 6pm after a police operation to arrest
sellers of pirated CDs etc.. Local newspaper La Foja reports that a police
attempt to enter the area around this time was repulsed by the crowd
throwing missiles.

By 7pm a police vehicle was ablaze in the street by the public market,
hundreds, if not thousands were in the streets and police were not to be
seen. Around 8pm missiles were seen being hurled, and slightly later a line
of riot police were formed across the road behind Santo Domingo church.

Around 8pm the crowd began to break into large shops by the market, breaking
plate glass windows and tearing off iron grilles on the entrances. Tela de
Mexico, Alamanecenes Grandes, and then the supermarket which is opposite
the last named, on a side street by the market, were all sacked. Around the
same time another fire was burning in the street by the market, reportedly a
second police car ablaze.

Large crowds of men, women and children carried off bags and boxes of food
and groceries, sacks of rice or beans, bottles of wine and spirits,
mattresses, sofas and much more. Eye witnesses reported a joyful and
excited atmosphere. There were few vehicles in the area, but taxis and cars
that strayed into the area were allowed to pass unhindered.

Around 10.15pm a large fire was seen burning near the market, reportedly a
shop. Around 10.- 10.30pm police, some armed and some with riot shields and
helmets, entered the area, charged the crowd and made arrests. According to
local radio 50 men, women and children were arrested. La Foca paper reports
the use of ?an excessive use of force? by the police when making arrests.
Police fired tear gas on more than one occasion, and tear gas swept down
nearby streets, causing discomfort to inhabitants of houses. Fire fighters
entered the area to combat the fires.

By 11.30 pm police appeared to have regained control of the situation,
though there were still crowds in the street, the shop continued to burn and
there were remnants of a fire in the street. Local radio reports 6 police
received hospital treatment. It is not known how many civilians were
injured by the police violence.

Reports in the media that some of the crowd applauded the entry of the
police into the area were not confirmed by eye witnesses who reported
instead mass participation in looting, and many onlookers observing without
any worries. The reactions observed to the arrival of the police were
either resistance or flight.

At 9am the next morning, 8 March, an area around the public market was
cordoned off by police with riot gear who were preventing entry by the
public.

More news may follow, and there may be reports on Indymedia Chiapas (this
report is not however from Indymedia Chiapas or any organization)

Note San Cristobal de Las Casas in Chiapas, southern Mexico has a
population of over 130,000, many of whom live in poverty, many lack basic
services such as electricity, piped water and drainage in their houses. A
large proportion of the population are indigenous people, the majority
Tzotziles, and suffer racist discrimination.

Hee :D (2)

The Great Wakka (319389) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138961)

At the end of the announcement, there is the phrase:
*bounce*bounce*bounce*
Apparently the GNOME developers are bouncing with joy. I hope that is what it is, at least.

Re:Hee :D (2)

scorcherer (325559) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138992)

*bounce*bounce*bounce*ka-BOOM* "Is that supposed to happen?" "Let me check my notes."

Apparently the GNOME developers are bouncing with joy, at least until the whole system crashes.

Re:Hee :D (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139084)

*bounce*bounce*bounce*

Actually when they were done writing the email in their text editor, that was how many bounces it took to open "Mail" on OS X.

Whoa... (1)

drik00 (526104) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138965)

Gnome 2 is out? I thought it was released along time ago....eerrr....ooh...no, that was Leprechaun 2...my bad.

Re:Whoa... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139075)

%s/gnome was free/cde gets commercial/g

who wants to belive ? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3138966)

let me correct some things. they may sound like a troll for some of you people but reality is this.

%s/beta 1/early hacked code/g
%s/beta 2/test code/g
%s/final/early alpha 1 stage/g

Re:who wants to belive ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139147)

who ever modded this down -1 and troll i have pages over pages of #gnome ircchannel logs floating here whoever wants them can get and read them they contain a couple of lines from developers of gnome that says exactly the same. whoever modded this is mostly a little fucking asshole THAT only wants to hear how GOOD and FINE GNOME 2 is. but it is not it is a pile unstable notworking piece of shit its basically the truth no matter how hard you try to modd things down its sadly TRUE everyone who tested it now SAYS the same thing. ITS FUCKING NIGGERWARE look the final GNOME 2 will be out in 2 weeks as mentioned on their roadmap and look at what gnome 2 beta 2 is right now ? you seriously BELIVE that they get everything done till ènd of march ? come on dude. compare beta 1 with beta 2 and the timespace between these 2 announces its now a few days ago and nearly nothign changed its THE SAME.

yay for accessibility features (2)

perdida (251676) | more than 12 years ago | (#3138982)

This is the sort of thing that will make open source software broad and popular. You get a dedicated audience who (literally) depends on the product, and the social brownie points racked up by catering to the disabled improves the image of GNOME in broader tech and policy circles.

call me jaded . . . (0, Troll)

augros (513862) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139012)

but the new features just aren't doin' it for me. i'm not handicapped and i don't plan to be any time soon. i don't speak hungarian, and will probably only start once i'm handicapped. and i'm comfortable enough with gdkxft hack to stick with it until a new install. gnome has MUCH more it needs to work on before catering to hungarian handicaps. and i'm sick of seeing that blurb time and time again. why not just say, "Gnome 2.0 released: so who cares?"

Re:call me jaded . . . (1, Redundant)

HanzoSan (251665) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139020)



Dont forget none of your programs will work either. I dont think Gnome too will be standard until maybe 6 months to a year from now.

Re:call me jaded . . . (3, Informative)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139049)

Uh.... no.

Gnome 1 programs will run FINE on a Gnome 2 desktop. Ever tried running a KDE app on Gnome, or vice-versa? It works fine. Gnome 1 apps on Gnome 2 desktop is just like that.

BTW, this is like your 3rd quasi-troll post on this thead. How exactly do you post with a +1 bonus?!

Here come the KDE trolls. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139018)

Watch out, because they're the saviors of Linux on the desktop! (Whatever that means, I'm running X with Blackbox, and it seems to work just fine without KDE.)

The minions of KDE would have you foolishly believe that Linux can't be successful without them. The fact is, it won't be successful with them. People won't switch to Linux just because there's a desktop that looks like Windows.. Haven't we learned that? I didn't see people switching so they could use fvwm!

Why will people flock to Linux and KDE, when they can run more applications, and the applications they actually use, on Microsoft Windows?

This kind of pissing contest is probably why so many open source projects never get farther than a trash can. Look at Sourceforge sometime. Look at all the dead projects. What happens is someone has a nice idea somewhere, and then hordes of ignorant zealots come in, flaming and harassing them.

People who insist you have to use KDE and that it is the savior of Linux, and will end world hunger, are no better than those who insist Gnome will cure cancer and cause significant hair regrowth in balding men.

And neither of them are better than a company in Redmond who would also have you believe that the only way is their way.

Re:Here come the KDE trolls. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139063)

Erm, there hasn't been a KDE vs Gnome troll yet in this thread. In fact, you are the troll.

Linux GUIs slow? (-1, Redundant)

cybergibbons (554352) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139040)

I dont know about everyone else - but I find KDE, Gnome, wmaker, and all the others very slow compared to MS Windows....

Before I get replies about KDE and gnome being resource hogging, slow, bloated, too many features... that is what I want. I want to have a nice looking, easy to use desktop. With a nice file manager, good web browser, extensive control panel, something that rivals windows. I don't want the simplest windows manager available so I can get similar performace to XP running on the same hardware.

With KDE, Netscape takes a good 10 seconds to load. Konqueror isn't much better. Fair enough, gimp loads quicker than photoshop. But when I can load internet explorer in a blink on a win98 machine, I find this frustrating. When Mandrake control center takes 20 seconds to come up, and windows control panel on a second or two...

They are the reasons I stay with windows....

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139096)

I agree. Unfortunately, every time I mention this to someone, they point out that I'm running on slow hardware and should upgrade. I don't want to upgrade a computer just to speed up windowing code. My PII266mhz/96MB/Voodoo3 runs Win98 just fine, so why should it take so long for KDE/GNOME apps to load up, and why should I see so many artifacts when I simply move a window?

It's been my experience that mentioning the slowness of KDE or GNOME has no effect, as it is always pointed to as the fault of something else, such as hardware, or something you did to misconfigure it, or drivers, and so forth. Nobody wants to admit anything!

Having said all that, I greatly appreciate the work put into both of these projects. In fact, I'd like to check out the source myself and see if I can help out with any optimizations. :) I hope the final releases of both KDE and GNOME see some much-needed speedups, because I really do enjoy using them. It's just that the slowness is very annoying.

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (1)

JanneM (7445) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139134)

YEs, many KDE and Gnome apps _are_ slow on old hardware. All software is written for a target architecture, and plainly, these desktops (and especially their apps) are aiming for beefier stuff than you have. That said, I occasionally run Gnome on my p133/32Mb laptop and it's acceptable as long as I don't try to run a modern browser and a number of other memory-intensive stuff at the same time.

What I _do_ run instead is XFce. It's quite fast even on that humble machine - and I can still use gnome apps on it as usual. Others speak warmly about Blackbox or WindowMaker. Remember, just because you're not using the desktop itself, it doesn't mean you can't use all the apps and other stuff.

/Janne

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (3, Interesting)

uchian (454825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139106)

Have you ever noticed how, on Windows, after the desktop appears it still takes a good thirty seconds to a minute until your computer actually starts responding to what you want to do? (for me the time seems to increase proportional to how many programs you have uninstalled)

The issue is not that IE takes less time to load than say, Konqueror or Netscape, it's that it loads at startup, whether you want it to or not.

Here's a question I don't know the answer to - what happens when Internet Explorer crashes? Does it get completely unloaded from memory, like any crashes program should, or does partially remain?

An unrelated point (as in that I never thought about the relation between the two until now) but I realise that at any point that Internet Explorer has ever crashed on me before, I've had to reboot Windows before my computer "feels" stable again, and I'm the kind of person who picks up on the warning signs when a computer/program are about to crash...

Anyway, that's (some of) the reasons I use KDE on linux...

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (2)

Zapdos (70654) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139148)

All it would take is to preload all of your apps the way windows does, but that would increase instability.
For example here is a preload application [sourceforge.net] for openoffice with the preload app openoffice starts in 1 second. The same thing can easily be done for mozilla etc. Galeon starts for me in 1.5 seconds. If gnome is so slow why can I record a CD at my cd-recorders max speed listen to wolf fm, edit a report, browse the web, and do so many diffrent things at once without fear.

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139151)

Ive used linux under a 450mhz machine with 64 mbs of ram and kde is really fast! Gnome kept weezing and my hard drive nearly died! But then you should try windows 2000 with 128 mb of ram. its sloooooooooooooow!

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (3, Insightful)

phyxeld (558628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139158)

I want to have a nice looking, easy to use desktop. With a nice file manager, good web browser, extensive control panel, something that rivals windows.

Considered Mac OS X?

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139196)

IE is already loaded. Win98 is based around Explorer. When you open IE, essentially all you are doing is opening another window, hence, no wait. Mozilla/Netscape 6 doesn't seem to load any faster in Windows than Linux and to call WindowMaker slow is absurd. I believe there is even an option in Mozilla/Netscape 6 to have it load with your window manager, thus making it open instantly when needed. I ran Gnome 1.4 for a time and did find it to be slightly slower than Windows 2000 but not significantly. My advice is to stick to WindowMaker. As a window manager, it runs circles around Windows.

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (2)

Arker (91948) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139197)

I don't want the simplest windows manager available so I can get similar performace to XP running on the same hardware.

This is exagerration for sure. Yes, GNOME and KDE can be quite bloated. But I've run both satisfactorily on hardware that XP won't even try to run on.

You probably are trying to use some really fancy themes if you're having a problem at that level. Solution is easy, get rid of the big pixmap-heavy themes and put something simple up. If you're using GNOME use a lightweight WM - one of the best things about GNOME is it is WM agnostic.

If I can run GNOME/WindowMaker and GNOME/IceWM on a k6-233 with 32 MB RAM at a reasonable speed I know you can run it on anything that XP would run on, easily. And yes, Windows*95* definitely feels a little faster on the same hardware. It runs all the graphics routines at privilege, of course it's going to be faster. It's also unstable as all hell - that's the price you pay.

However if you want to compare XP, well, good luck getting XP to even boot up on that box.

With KDE, Netscape takes a good 10 seconds to load. Konqueror isn't much better. Fair enough, gimp loads quicker than photoshop. But when I can load internet explorer in a blink on a win98 machine, I find this frustrating.

IE is loading itself during the boot sequence. You can have Konq or Netscape do the same thing if you fiddle with your x init routines.

Re:Linux GUIs slow? (3, Insightful)

Arandir (19206) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139241)

I did an informal test a while back. At work I have a Win2K machine (PIV 1.4Ghz) which I converted to a dual boot FreeBSD machine. Having to reboot into Windows on occasion caused me no end of aggravation, one of which was the sucky speed. So I started timing stuff.

From power on to IExplorer showing my homepage, Win2K takes 90 seconds. From power on to Konqueror showing my homepage, FreeBSD/KDE takes 65 seconds.

I don't want the simplest windows manager available so I can get similar performace to XP running on the same hardware.

I've never used XP, but the window manager for 95/98/2K sucks! It is the simplest window manager available! Maybe I've just gotten used to X window manager, but I find the Windows GUI to be horribly awkward. If you have a window obscuring another one, you have to minimize it because there's no way to send it to the back (that I've found). There's no snap to edges or other windows. No rollups. No vertical or horizontal maximizes. And the automatic placement of windows is downright primitive. Frankly, it feels like it designed for users that only have one window open at a time.

Stop the flames! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139069)

if (gnome_article & some_one_mentions_kde)
{
moderate(-1)
}
else if (kde_article & some_one_mentions_gnome)
{
moderate(-1)
}

That no language in particular code is how the moderators act on slashdot!

Stop this fucking flame war, its the same thing, people flame each oither over which is better! Other examples include emacs and vim, linux and windows ,qt and gtk+. just scrap one program and improve the other!

What is? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139072)

Will you explain
to an intelligent
but uninformed user
who uses macs
and sometimes windows
what is GNOME
what is KDE
which to use
or maybe both
are they friends?
are they enemies?
Don't they do
pretty similar things?
Aren't desktop separatists
hurting the cause?

Anti-aliased support. (2, Interesting)

fialar (1545) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139077)

Does this mean the new GNOME will incorporate the new Xft Hack [slashdot.org] ?

Or did they finally release an anti-alias process for fonts that doesn't make them look fugly? :)

-f-

Internationalisation (1)

CodeMonkey555 (517387) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139081)

Don't you think that is their internationalization was so good, it would have changed that 's' into a 'z' for those of us in the US.

buttfuck (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139095)

i want a baby from miguel de icaza :-)

since i am a man i gonna shit it out - but hey. didn't all mexicans come to world like this ?

clearance (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139183)

one point that piss me off all the time. GNOME DOES NOT ANTI-ALIASING FONTS. so please stop telling people who asks 'whats new in gnome 2' that it supports 'AA'. its not true. GTK supports AA so gnome 2 profits from it. so please stop telling people that gnome 2 is the inventor of this stuff its basically not true and shouldnt be spread as this in the public.

true is that gnome 2 is basically a major rewrite of gnome 1 with a FEW visible replacements and a shitload of removed options. a speeded up nautilus that still doesnt operate correctly. THATS it and if you ask for screenshots now and you use gnome 1 then look on your desktop since its the same ugly shit you get with gnome 2.

only major annoying news is this implementation of a windows registry like system that pollutes your homedir with 1000000 directories and 1000000 *.xml files.

another news is that SUN investigates into that pile of shit to substitute their CDE with a more or less broken DE.

The TRUTH (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3139238)

Note, the correct moderation score for this is score 5, informative! Anything else is a LIE!

I have tried both KDE and Gnome and here is my opinion! Feel free to flame me if you want but im not a troll and i like linux a lot!. Gnome is bloated shit and is very BUGGY! it is also out of date and UGLY! Its is the slowest thing EVER MADE! Ever tried to run nautilus? You better press ctrl alt F1 instead for a REAL file manager because this is slow crap and there are many better alternatives!

KDE is smaller in terms of packages (about 80 mbs in rpms compared to about 200 for gnome). It takes slightly longer to start up but it IS MUCH FASTER aferterwards. Konqueror is a kick ASS FILE MANAGER and its freaking fast as well as an excellent web browser. KDE is ultra sexy or you can configure it to be plain too. Gnome is just plain ugly like motif and win 3.1 yuck *(!

Conclusion
KDE 85%
Gnome 20 %

Only speed could make kde better although its quite fast now, gnome requires you to have a SUPERCOMPUTER to get nautilus running fast enough!

Why linux isn't on the desktop (1, Insightful)

NavelFozz (33778) | more than 12 years ago | (#3139243)

"Q. How do I use anti-aliased fonts?
A. Set the GDK_USE_XFT environment variable. eg.: export GDK_USE_XFT=1"

and in windows I just click this button here...

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