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The State of Recordable DVD's

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the shiny-things dept.

Hardware 173

An anonymous reader writes: "The Tech Report has a review of two DVD writers, one from each of the two competing standards (DVD-R and -RW and DVD+RW). In addition to testing the performance of each drive, they also test a bunch of DVD players and DVD-ROM drives to see how well they read the different types of media."

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173 comments

I claim this (-1, Offtopic)

fred911 (83970) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145470)

as 1st post. Could it be??

Re:I claim this (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145477)

no

and by the way, please fix your post by adding either a reference to penis birds, OOG, magenta syringe and or MDMA, natalie portman, or hot grits.

Thanks.

Re:I claim this (-1)

IAgreeWithThisPost (550896) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145521)

please be so kind as to STFU, AC. A LIT(Logged in Troll) has trumped you like the AC bitch you are.

Re:I claim this (-1)

Mayor McPenisman (557253) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145760)

I now have a very amusing .sig

I used to think that sig's were lame, but this piece of text really jumped out at me.

:::

Hi, Jack. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145478)

Be sure to forward a copy to Jack Valenti. I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

Suck my balls (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145479)

bitch

something needs to change! (3, Interesting)

edrugtrader (442064) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145483)

i was just recently in the market for these, and they REALLY have to get a standard together.

i'm currently looking at DVD+RW... i guess DVDR and DVD+R are also both good.

i'm just going to wait, becuase i don't want to be stuck with a drive 6 months from now that no one makes media for anymore.

to the standards people:
* 5+ gigs per disk
* plays on ANY DVD player
* readily available cheap media

Re:something needs to change! (2, Informative)

nedron (5294) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145549)

There is a standard, and it's set by the DVD Forum. The standard for recordable DVD is DVD-R and DVD-RW. That's it.

Computer manufacturers came up with a format that is optimized for data storage and uses a disc similar to DVD. This format is called DVD+RW, which is disengenuous at best as discs produced by these systems cannot be called DVD.

Re:something needs to change! (4, Interesting)

Zed Pobre (160035) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145938)

You know, you have this obsession with the DVD Forum that I find most unhealthy, and somehow, you keep getting modded up for it.

For DVD video, DVD+RW has pretty much exactly the same success rate as DVD-RW at being read in standard DVD players [tech-report.com] , and it handles data much better to boot. (Did you actually read the review, or did you just come here to troll the DVD+RW standards folks?) If it can be played in as many DVD players as DVD-RW, have data read by most DVD-ROMs, read DVD discs, read DVD-R discs, even read DVD-RW discs, it can bloody well put "DVD" as part of its name.

Re:something needs to change! (2)

nedron (5294) | more than 12 years ago | (#3146046)

My problem is not with the format itself, it's with everyone calling it a DVD format when it isn't. My "obsession" with the DVD Forum is the same one I have with Phillips and the IETF. If I want to find out what makes a CD a CD, I go to Phillips who controls the CD licensing. Basically, I go to who controls the "thing".

If I wanted to find out what could be called a DVD+RW, I'd go to the DVD+RW Alliance, not the DVD Forum.

Nothing changes the fact that DVD+RW are not DVDs. Sorry. And that's my only point.

Frankly, I don't care that I get "mopped" up. There are a lot of people in the world who could care less about proper nomenclature and that's fine. These are generally the same people whose ancesters called manatees "mermaids".

Re:something needs to change! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145568)

This is a huge problem. I've been thinking about getting a DVD player for the last 6 months or so, but there's a huge problem with figuring out which features do what. This DVD FAQ [dvddemystified.com] helped quite a bit. I've got to have one by the time Gigantic [giganticfilm.com] comes out, and I need to be able to play MP3 (oog would be great too) on it. What to do... what to do...
----------
check out the interactive web assistants at verbots.com [verbots.com] .

Here's a story for someone to submit: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3146053)

All those broadcasting companies that keep jerking around consumers with HDTV are now getting people killed [bbc.co.uk]

I know who it was (-1)

Ralph JewHater Nader (450769) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145485)

The Jew York Times blew up the WTC towers!

DVD standards... (4, Informative)

ZiZ (564727) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145489)

I made the selection to go with DVD+RW recently; it seems to be the more stable of the standards based on my research. It certainly burns DVDs that are readable in all of my non-writer computer DVD drives; I don't have any current need for DVD player technology support.

The author of this review also spends quite a bit of time kvetching about the writing software that comes with burners. My advice? Junk it all! Get a copy of Nero [ahead.de] . It supports XP, DVD drives, rewritable CDs and DVDs, and has a packet-writing software avaliable. It's also bloody fast and astoundingly reliable. (Blatent Plug, but it's true.)

Re:DVD standards... (3, Informative)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145635)

Note that the second drive of the review came/comes with Nero, and the reviewer gave it god comments.

Re:DVD standards... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145677)

Bless thee my son. May your standards live happily ever after, for richer for poorer, until death do they part.

SP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145490)

Second post you suckas!
Eat my lunch nuts

JVC DVD+RW (4, Informative)

tenman (247215) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145493)

I love my JVC DVD+RW. And I haven't found a dvd unit yet that is not able to play the recorded ROMs. However, I have notice older players that had the layer switching problems, really take a long time to make the jump from one layer to the next, and my oldest DVD player (an APEX) doesn't even make an attempt.

Re:JVC DVD+RW (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145522)

I love my JVC DVD+RW. And I haven't found a dvd unit yet that is not able to play the recorded ROMs. However, I have notice older players that had the layer switching problems, really take a long time to make the jump from one layer to the next, and my oldest DVD player (an APEX) doesn't even make an attempt.

The whole Kennedy thing is so huge because it's at the center of so many other covert shadow-government operations. Kennedy himself was the smallest part of it, because it was actually a power play between Dulles' CIA, the anti-Castro military, LBJ, the Giancana Mafia, and a bunch of other dirty players. Oswald was a patsy, sure, but he put a gun on Jack. Of course, so did other test-mules from Dulles' MK-Ultra LSD-mind-control experiments. Zapruder was in on it, too: He was a KGB mole from way back. And the whole thing had ripple effects, like Jonestown, which was an assassin training camp that got found out. As for the Warren Commission, that thing was a joke--Dulles himself was on it, and there was only one person on the whole commission who wasn't on the CIA payroll and suspected Oswald didn't act alone. He died in a plane crash, after a young congressional aide named Bill Clinton drove him to the airport. It's all true, but nobody wants to admit it. Nobody.

I LOVE YOU! (-1, Flamebait)

xdfgf (460453) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145497)

Vagina?
or
Penis?

YOU DECIDE!

Re:Vagina or Penis? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145665)

I choose the asshole [goatse.cx] every time, and you gotta admint, it's kinda tempting.

the dvd player/recorder matrix (4, Informative)

wildcard023 (184139) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145501)

I've found that http://www.vcdhelp.com [vcdhelp.com] is a great site for anything dvd related. They also have a searchable matrix [vcdhelp.com] that includes heaps of useful information on players and recorders.

AMISH VIRUS!!! (-1)

Alan_Thicke (553655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145517)

You have just received the Amish Virus!
Since we do not have electricity or computers,
you are on the HONOR SYSTEM!
Please delete ALL of your files....




Thank Thee.

Re:AMISH VIRUS!!! (-1)

IAgreeWithThisPost (550896) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145536)

Hey you fucker! I was expecting the Growing Pains theme song, and instead you feed me this trash!

Re:AMISH VIRUS!!! (-1)

Alan_Thicke (553655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145542)

I just heard the sad news on CBC radio. Comedy actor/writer Alan Thicke was found dead in his home this morning. Even if you never liked his work, you can appreciate what he did for 80's television. Truly a Canadian icon. [slashdot.org]
He will be missed :(



Show me That Smile (The Growing Pains Theme Song):

Show me that smile again.
Ooh show me that smile.
Don't waste another minute on your crying.
We're nowhere near the end.
We're nowhere near.
The best is ready to begin.

As long as we got each other
We got the world
Sitting right in our hands.
Baby rain or shine;
All the time.
We got each other
Sharing the laughter and love.

Where's my holographic storage? (3, Funny)

Guru1 (521726) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145519)

I remember reading a good 15-20 years ago in my Highlights magazine (good tech info) that the scientists were working on a holographic storage device. Instead of storing things in 2d, they store things in 3d, thus drastically increasing the storage available. They supposedly would be able to store terabites of information in a re-recordable media. Don't tell me my Highlights magazine was wrong!

Come on Trekkie (1, Funny)

slugfro (533652) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145590)

Come one now, admit it...you were really reading Trekkie Highlights (Article: "Startrek Enterprise scientists working on the Future, Today").

Re:Where's my holographic storage? (2, Insightful)

torqer (538711) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145641)

We do use 3d storage techniques. I'll just use DVD's as my example to keep it on topic.

There are two layers on a DVD. When you look at it might seem 2d but there really is depth and thus it is 3d. The Laser on DVD reads the first layer (which is usually gold) which is semi transparent. This transperancy allows the laser to access data underneath the first layer.

Something else you might be interested in is that in order to have DVD and CD compatiblity a holograpic laser is used.

If you want more information on this try as a starting point. [audiolinks.nl]

Re:Where's my holographic storage? (1)

torqer (538711) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145673)

Oops I put holographic laser is used. Not the case it is a holographic LENS. Sorry about that

Re:Where's my holographic storage? (2)

EvlPenguin (168738) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145767)

There are two layers on a DVD.

True. But there's two sides to a tape, too... and I highly doubt anyone would consider that 3D. A stack of 2D platters alone does not a 3D make. When people talk of "3D storage", they are refering to storage which uses the position of a bit in relation to all three axis to store a value. Indeed, a double-layered disc may exist in three dimensions, but the data being stored is still flat. You're just getting twice as much.

Re:Where's my holographic storage? (1)

Joel Ironstone (161342) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145808)

A two layer system is not a 3-d system. I won't get into any bumblign math arguements, but true 3-d storage would have N^3 density. The double layer disk has 2*N^2 density. it's still O(N^2). When we get storage of O(N^3) we'll know it. It's the same increase in peformance as moving from a tape O(N) to a disk O(N^2). An eight track although 8*N in density is still, once again, O(N). Read O(N) as of the order N.

Re:Where's my holographic storage? (2)

Amazing Quantum Man (458715) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145689)

Highlights has tech articles next to "The Timbertoes" and "Goofus and Gallant"??? Wow, kiddie mags have come a long way!

Re:Where's my holographic storage? (2)

JabberWokky (19442) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145833)

Hey, I was stuck in a Dentist's office, and read "White Dragon", a pretty complete excerpt from one of McCaffery's Pern novels in Cricket Magazine. Some of the kids magazines actually have some decent content... Boy's Life had the Tripod's triology redone in comic form, and published many of Heinlein's stories... although I haven't seen a copy in many a year. Playboy also used to have good articles and fiction way back when - Phillip Jose Farmer published some good short stories.

Good non-news english language magazines have pretty much disappeared, as far as I've seen. Magazines have really turned into news, fluff or sex. There are some niche stuff, mostly SF or Fantasy magazines, but even those have been going downhill or disappearing of late.

--
Evan

Re:Where's my holographic storage? (2)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145921)

interesting that you mention Playboy in the context of "kiddie mags" ;-)

Re:Where's my holographic storage? (1)

Coward, Anonymous (55185) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145896)

Highlights has tech articles next to "The Timbertoes" and "Goofus and Gallant"???

No, not really, they're not actually articles. The June 1983 issue of Highlights contained a "What's Wrong With This Picture" picture and one of the answers was that Bobby was using a holographic cube storage device with his computer and that the technology won't be available for another few years. They used to be more political in their pictures but after the faux pas of May 1941 in which they showed a German Jewish girl without her yellow star, they moved away from politics and more into science and technology.

Available later this year! (3, Informative)

Namarrgon (105036) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145989)

Funny you should mention that - a Japanese company called Optware [optware.co.jp] just recently announced [cdrinfo.com] a product based on volume holography in a disc format. One terabyte per disc, initially write-once, with rewritable discs to follow. Look under "VRD Technologies" here [optware.co.jp] .

From the press release:

The company will start sample shipping of the disc and the replay device in the third quarter of this year.

I always wondered what happened to this technology. Looks like it might finally arrive :-)

DVD+RW is not DVD (4, Informative)

nedron (5294) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145525)

Note that discs produced by DVD+RW drives are not DVDs nor can they legally be called DVD. The only writeable formats which can produce output media that can be called DVD are DVD-R and DVD-RW. DVD-RAM is also available, but is primarily just for data storage.

A lot of confusion could be cleared if people would stop referring to DVD+RW as a recordable DVD format.

For more info, see my FAQ [nedron.net] .

No it wouldn't (1)

glrotate (300695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145607)

People just want to be able to rip a DVD and burn a copy that is playable on their DVD player. It really doesn't matter what you call it. As soon as somebody comes out with one of those and the media is $5 then I'll buy one.

yes it WOULD (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145669)

Go buy an Acme RoadRunner DVD RW+ drive, whose media is $1.35/10 gb disc.

What? you can't use recorded discs in your dvd player? well it's okay, we called it a "recordable dvd format" even though it can't be played back in a dvd drive.

Since the RoadRunner performs as advertised, no refund allowed.

THAT'S why its important.

Re:No it wouldn't (2)

nedron (5294) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145745)

Actually, I don't think that's "what people want", but hey, I also don't steal music.

In any case, DVD-R media is already under $5/disc, so I'm not sure what your response means.

Re:No it wouldn't (1)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145992)

Copying isn't the same as stealing.

Where do you get DVD-R media for less than $5? I'm interested in getting a drive for data archiving, but the media seems expensive. $5 would not be too bad.

Re:No it wouldn't (1)

kaimiike1970 (444130) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145755)

They call this a 'G4 with superdrive'. Get out your checkbook.

Re:DVD+RW is not DVD (1)

cobbaut (232092) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145859)

Legally not DVD's ? So what ?

The movies that i write on DVD+RW play perfect in my home player (Philips 711), and in my Wintel's DVD player (Creative).

So what's that confusion all about ? My 'uncle bob' will see this disk as a normal rewritable DVD.

cheers,
pol :)

DVD+RW is more DVD than DVD-RAM (4, Informative)

Namarrgon (105036) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145910)

True, DVD+RW discs are not entitled to bear the DVD logo (though the drives may well be), as the logo is controlled by the DVD Forum.

However, nothing I could find on the DVD Forum site mentioned that the word "DVD" could not be used to describe non-Forum-approved products. There's no trademarks applied to the word "DVD", AFAIK. In any case, it's merely a legal distinction, not a functional one. It certainly hasn't stopped all the various manufacturers of DVD+RW products from calling them DVDs, even though those companies are members of the DVD Forum as well.

Given that DVD+RW discs work like DVDs, store video & data like DVDs, and are at least as compatible with DVD-Video players & DVD-ROM drives as DVD-RW discs (and far more so than DVD-RAM discs), I think people are entitled to call them DVDs. If it quacks like a duck, etc.

However, Forum-approved DVD-R discs remain the most compatible current writable format (at least until DVD+R is available), due to the different reflectivity of both RW formats. DVD-RAM discs cannot be read by anything except a DVD-RAM drive, so I don't think it counts, regardless of whether it has a DVD logo or not.

DVD+R drives announced today (3, Informative)

Namarrgon (105036) | more than 12 years ago | (#3146054)

Seems DVD+R will be available (from HP at least) by mid-April [hp.com] . Now at last I might buy one :-)

Given all the other advantages that DVD+R/RW has (greater compatibility, more flexible recording, faster recording, background formatting, etc etc [dvdplusrw.org] ), Panasonic are going to have to drop the prices on the DVD-RW units even more to stay in the market, IMHO.

Re:DVD+RW is not DVD (5, Interesting)

xigxag (167441) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145951)

From your "FAQ," it appears that you have some kind of bias against the DVD+RW Alliance, who it should be noted, consists of Dell, Hewlett-Packard Company, MCC/Verbatim, Philips Electronics, Ricoh Company Ltd., Sony Corporation, Thomson multimedia and Yamaha Corporation. [dvdrw.com] It's not some cobbled together group of fly-by-night companies.

Furthermore, I believe you are factually incorrect in stating that DVD+RW can't "legally" be called DVD. The DVD+RW Alliance seem to do so with impunity on their site. What is true is that their format is not licensed by the "DVD Forum" nor can it use their logo. But, big deal. The Alliance has its own logo which is just as pretty, and it seems to me that they are a fairly reliable manufacturing bunch. And who's the DVD Forum, anyway? Just another, larger group of companies. Interestingly, it would appear that all the members of the DVD+RW Alliance are also members of the DVD Forum, although not vice-versa, of course. Anyway, these two formats will duke it out on their respective merits and the marketing savvy of their proponents, and not on whether some licensing agency nobody cares about issues a logo. (I mean, DVD-RAM, how the hell does that get to be called DVD-anything? It's not even the same recording material as a regular DVD. I'll be nice and not discuss the "RAM" portion of the name. Let's just say Panasonic's been trying to mainstream this product line for many years and I wish them the best of luck.)

And as for confusion, how confused can people be? If slashdotters can wrap their heads around SIMM, DIMM, SODIMM, SDRAM, RDRAM, HTML, XML, XHTML, MathML, XSL, and so on, what's so hard about researching a couple of recordable DVD formats?

Of course, it's all a moot issue. Recordable blue-laser discs will be out in a couple of years and by that time, these two formats will have caught on about as much as the Sony HiFD and Imation LS120 [itsfueralle.de] did.

DVD and D-VHS (3, Interesting)

BrianGa (536442) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145527)

D-VHS may be superior, but it's still a magnetic tape format, like VHS is, correct? One of the things that I like about DVD is that no matter how many times I play a movie, it will never wear out. I'm sure we've all expirenced haveing an audio or video tape lose quality from overplaying. CDs and DVDs don't have this problem, so why would I want one? The DVD format could just be amended, like audio CDs/computer CD hybrids (CD-XA?) were ammended to the origional audio CD format. Plus if this is indeed a tape format, then you don't get that great near instant seek of DVDs. Is there anything to prevent these tapes from degrading?

Re:DVD and D-VHS (3, Informative)

edrugtrader (442064) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145579)

you really can't compare D-VHS to VHS... the reason the VHS loses quality is because it is analog... the D-VHS is digital. it shouldn't wear out at all.

I used to be a television production major and we would re-use our digital tapes for years with no degradation at all... these weren't D-VHS, but they were still 'tape' based digital media, and would retain broadcast quality stuff forever it seemed.

Re:DVD and D-VHS (5, Informative)

Ooblek (544753) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145649)

Digital tapes do wear, but the error correction helps mask it. If you ever actually work in production, you rarely re-use digital tapes even when they cost $100+ per unit. Any engineer will tell you its a bad idea to re-use them for storing any master. When they do wear out, you start to notice concealment rates skyrocket on the devices that let you view the graphs. If a professional production house were to send that out to a client as a master, that would be a coffin nail.

DVD life (5, Insightful)

InsaneCreator (209742) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145529)

DVD-R media costs less than DVD-RW, has an archival life of up to 100 years

But how will you read the data from it in 100 years? We don't even know if we will be able to purchase compatible readers in 2-3 years.

Re:DVD life (2, Interesting)

flewp (458359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145610)

I just hope I won't be so poor I'll still be using a DVD-RW/DVD-R/DVD-Etc for another 100 years. Afterall, I'm still using one of the original Soundblaster 16 cards that is about 10 years old and is now in it's 4th machine. (And has been running fine all these years)

On a serious note though, how durable are the discs? Are they really scratch-prone or what? 100 years is nice if the disc is just going to be sitting around not doing much, but if it's put into a lot of use, it may develop scratches over time.

Re:DVD life (2)

InsaneCreator (209742) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145839)

I just hope I won't be so poor I'll still be using a DVD-RW/DVD-R/DVD-Etc for another 100 years. Afterall, I'm still using one of the original Soundblaster 16 cards that is about 10 years old and is now in it's 4th machine.

This is different, since all you need for your soundblaster to work is a compatible slot in your computer and drivers, which are also not very hard to get. Also, your soundblaster doesn't carry any important data. When it becomes obsolete you just buy a new one. On the other hand, there is still no standard for (re)writable DVD's, which means that the companies might stop producing drives that can read your discs in just a few months or years. What do you do if the industry accepts a new, non DVD compatible standard?
Take a look at an older slashdot story: 1086 Domesday Book Outlives 1986 Electronic Rival [slashdot.org]
It's about how some laser disc created 15 years ago cannot be read by any technology available today. What if something like that happens with DVDs?

Re:DVD life (2, Funny)

linzeal (197905) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145617)

You aren't saying that the MPAA will help create a new standard are you? Everyone knows that the encryption technology on DVDs should easily outlast advances even in quantum computing.

Yup! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145685)

Ask J. Johansen,

find a copy of DeCSS or SmartRipper, then explain how the protection is so great and long-lasting.

Better yet, google this: CSS overview

Re:Yup! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145744)

I think the author of parent comment was making a snide remark and knew that.

Re:Yup! (0)

Chester Abecrombe (549881) | more than 12 years ago | (#3146033)

Thank you for the tip. I learned a lot about Cascading Style Scripts based upon your suggestion.

What do you mean??? (1)

slugfro (533652) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145624)

Are you trying to tell me that you don't still have your 5.25" floppy drive installed on your machine?

Well.. (2)

Tom7 (102298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3146000)

What I do is to copy my archive from my old media to new whenever a new format comes out. I plan on being able to read CD-Rs for a while, but when they start to go out of favor, I'll copy all of that stuff on to DVD*RW or whatever is in fashion. Then when a new higher-capacity storage medium comes out, I'll just copy again...

DVD too slow (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145531)

ARG. Still slow.

CD/DVDs are TOO slow for any real data transfer.

gotta go w/ a BIG FAT RAM CUBE.

DVD-RAM (2, Interesting)

nullard (541520) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145550)

What ever happened to DVD-RAM? I bought one of those drives in '99 and I have yet to see another computer with one. I can theoretically use single-sided DVD-RAM discs in read-only mode in other drives, but is that the extent of its usefulness? I've only bought one (5.2gb) DVD-RAM disc, but I've never had reason to buy another.

you get "creative" (5, Informative)

chainsaw1 (89967) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145783)

I don't know what DVD player you have, but my DVD-RAM media won't work anywhere else

My DVD-RAM uses a square plastic caddy like old CDROM drives. The difference is that every DVD-RAM media has it's own caddie and the caddie is supposed to be permenant... it contains the read-write tab like floppy disks have, etc.

You can sorta get around this...

Take a DVD RAM cartridge and *carefully* crack it open. You can take out the DVD disc and if you wrote a disc with a digital movie some DVD set tops will work with it. There are not many though (more sets will read the DVD+RW or -RW than a cracked DVD-RAM). This is probably why you don't see them... you can't exactly put the disc+cartridge in a DVD player and most people then turn away from them, and cracked discs don't ever work real well. And as the article said, mor ppl are expected to use them in set tops than for data

I don't know if you can put a standard DVD-/+R(W) in the cartridge and use it. If you look at the DVD-RAM disc, the coding is much different in appearence from the other standard disc's

I have a Creative DVD-RAM, which I have been pretty pissed at. Looking on the data side, of the backups I have done, I have always had files lost during the backup write. The only advantage it had was I got it pretty cheap (about $250 2 years ago)

Re:DVD-RAM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145815)

If you've only bought one piece of media, you could have saved a lot of trouble by buying a 5.2gb hard drive instead.

Hah!

Forget about DVDs... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145558)

Head on down to Ground Zero in NYC this evening for the events. I hear there are going to be quite a few newly-single millionairesses! Got my scrotum powdered and a wrist-band to get a primo-spot on the viewing platform...Whoohoo.

Stepfanie - Weatherbug Product Manager (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145564)

I want to marry her

DVD+RW? DVD-RW? Bah! (2, Funny)

x136 (513282) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145565)

DVD-RAM for life! Woooooo!

*cough*

Sorry.

Did he forget to mention the Pioneer "SECRET" (2, Interesting)

heyday (94605) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145567)

So I personaly think they guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

How come he didn't mention that the Pioneer drive can only write at 2X speed if you buy the $12 media from them! None of the $2 bank disks will work at 2X. Talk about a rip off...

Also... copying DVDs is not that hard as he states..... now you can buy double sided DVD-R media.... and pretty much copy any disk and keep menus and extra stuff....

Of couse you only want to make back ups of stuff you already own...

heyday

Re:Did he forget to mention the Pioneer "SECRET" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145650)

Hmm? I'm getting 2x writes with my Pioneer and Apple's media. It could be a firmware issue as mine is an Apple firmwaerd "SuperDrive"

Backing up DVD's (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145575)

For the love of God, people, just go buy the damn movie.

Why is it that everyone thinks that the only legitimate use of DVD-R in relation to DVD is for piracy?

For god's sake, all I want to do is backup my DVD's so that my I don't have to buy it again after my kid scratches it up.

To be practical, though, we need higher storage capacity. Most of my movies won't fit onto 4.7GB.

<sarcasm>I just love the DMCA. Makes it illegal to do with DVD what I've done for years with VHS videos I legally own.</sarcasm>

Re:Backing up DVD's (4, Insightful)

Amazing Quantum Man (458715) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145704)

Or how about a single disk image of my Win2K C: drive? Hangs head in shame...

Or an image of my Linux partition? Or how about combining all 7 CDs in the Mandrake 8.1 PowerPack into a single DVD or...

Re:Backing up DVD's (4, Insightful)

Ooblek (544753) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145726)

You also have to wonder why record stores (for example, Virgin Megastore) have big piles of blank media for CDR (and presumably DVD). If it hurts their sales so much, why do they sell them in the record store? I don't go to the record store to buy CDRs for data purposes. Maybe all this complaining is just giving them free advertising time....

Re:Backing up DVD's (2)

elmegil (12001) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145763)

Here's another use, whether you consider it piracy or not is up to you.

I record (on video tape) episodes of various cartoons that I enjoy watching. However, due to some glitch between my VCR & my receiver, the color is all washed out (for anything from VCR, not just tape). I would really really like to be able to put these cartoons (and other shows I record, which is legitimate private use) onto a medium that 1) takes up less space than tape, 2) has longer lifespan than tape, and 3) I can play on my DVD player which doesn't have the same problems with color washout.

As far as it goes, if I can buy these cartoons on DVD, I'm usually more than happy to. The production quality etc of a professional DVD is worth a fair bit to me. But while you can expect a given movie will make it to DVD in some reasonable amount of time, TV cartoons and TV shows generally do not have the same assumption.

Recently I've gotten together the technologies to be able to burn VCDs of these, but I still can only get about an hours worth on any given CDR, so I still end up with a lot of little discs running around. I would really dig having a reasonably priced means to put all of that data on only a handful of discs. Of course, today, that's still not possible from what I've seen (not to mention that reasonable means to burn VCDs is relatively new, and I'm sure any kind of DVD format is a ways out for the common man).

Backup to HD. (1)

nullard (541520) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145797)

I copy my DVDs to my hard drive. When I started watching DVDs, the player was still in beta and it would loose sync with the movie and pause to read the disc. Once I started playing them off of my hd, things went much smoother. Now, I don't even bother going to my DVD rack, I just mount the disc image.

Re:Backing up DVD's (2)

Pedersen (46721) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145801)

Ya know, I've got to reply. It's more than just backing up movies and data. I happened to tape my sister's wedding. Rather than produce a VHS of the final output, I put it on the computer, did my editing, and produced a video that some have said could have been done by a professional (I don't kid myself, my equipment was not even what was required to do something that well).

I guess my point is that not only would we want to back up movies, but some of us would like to make them, and do.

Re:Backing up DVD's (3, Informative)

ncc74656 (45571) | more than 12 years ago | (#3146008)

For god's sake, all I want to do is backup my DVD's so that my I don't have to buy it again after my kid scratches it up.

If you haven't already, try this [vcdhelp.com] . Your kid won't notice the difference, and CD-Rs are dirt cheap. You also get to cut out the spam^H^H^H^Hpromos that Di$ney likes to put at the beginning of each DVD.

(Odds are you'd need the same techniques to rip the source DVD and reencode it to fit on a burnable DVD (assuming the original is >4.7GB...maybe stripping out extra languages and such would reduce the size enough for some movies).)

MPAA? (0)

mteichrob (151747) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145578)

Are there any copy protection efforts in place for DVD's as of yet? I know I just ran into my first "noisy" CD this past weekend (I can't play it in my cdrom drive). How long will the movie industry hold off until we hear whining and complaining about copywrite issues from them? Will the new recordable DVD's cause problems in this area?

Re:MPAA? (2)

Com2Kid (142006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145605)

"know I just ran into my first "noisy" CD this past weekend (I can't play it in my cdrom drive)."

May I suggest supporting independent artists who will not screw you over like the RIAA will?

(cheaper CDs often times to boot! yaah!)

Re:MPAA? (0)

mteichrob (151747) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145639)

Yeah,

Well I DO support other artists as well, but I buy music based upon the "musicianship". If it sounds like crap, I don't want to listen to it. . . whether that's some independent unknown or N'Sync!

Re:MPAA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145748)

Could you tell us the title of the CD?

As sick and twisted as this may seem... (1)

Eddy Johnson (467614) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145586)

The U.S. government, or the United Nations, or some international governmental system, should set up something for general media and electronic systems like the W3C is for the Web.

Yes, sick and twisted. I suggested that mass media should be regulated by a bunch of old white guys from different countries that don't know a transistor from a cockroach up their ass.

No, on a serious note, they (mostly likely the UN, since this stuff is worldwide) should hire the top people in mass media that don't have any specific company affiliations after they're hired, to regulate all the stuff, send it to the companys, and have the UN make sure all the countries are making sure that everything is going as scheduled.

Which sounds like communism, government regulating business, but the business owners might think twice before saying 'no'... if everything is regulation, than people don't have to think twice before buying their products.

Or we should just get Slashdot readers to do the same thing...

Re:As sick and twisted as this may seem... (2)

JabberWokky (19442) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145918)

It's been done. MPEG stands for Moving Picture Experts Group, a standards group (like IEEE, ANSI, W3C, etc) that defines the standards for digital video signals. They developed many of the standards that went into VCD, DVD, MP3, etc. Visit their site [telecomitalialab.com] and learn about MPEG-1,2,4,7 and 21. (incidently JPEG is also a similar group).

The signal definition is, however media agnostic. MPEG-2 is used both for DVD and sending television master signals over satellites. Media standards are controlled by the company that invents them (royalties are paid on every casette tape that is made). Development of media is starting to swing towards consortium and committee standards, but that's how DVD was made. Blue-Ray is another example.

--
Evan

The Question Is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145598)

Which of these drives will I be able to use to burn the new Star Wars movies the fastest with? I bet we have a good movie rip before the movie is out a week.

Re:The Question Is (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145648)

FUCKING RETARD! YOU LIKE STARWARS! DO YOU WANT TO FINGER JAR JAR!!!!!!!!!!!!! DAMN!!! IDIOT!!!
DONT YOU realize that lucas is a retard just like you!!!! fuckwad damn you are so friggin retarded. Star Wars is dumb.

So why not screw Lucas and distribute (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145663)

to those that want it, beotch. Get it right, you forgot to add what a huge asshole I am. Fuck the MPA!

Re:The Question Is (3, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145932)

the FIRST night it is shown on the very first playing I know someone that will have an AWESOME copy of it on DV. he has a translucent screen setup with the audio directly patched from the projecter's audio system. The projected image is sent through a beam-splitter and then throught another lens system.

Here's the kicker... He wont let anyone have a copy and you have to be at his home to view it.

Yes it's not 6.1 THX yaddayadda... but sitting in his living room drinking beer and eating pizza-rolls is a better way to watch the newest flicks.

Oh, Dont try this at home....

Easy to Burn on Mac OS X (4, Interesting)

Gryphon (28880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145656)

I have one of the new flat-panel iMacs, which to my knowledge, includes the reviewed Pioneer drive.

I can corroborate, for CD-RW, that the write speeds are a bit pokey. It took about 25 minutes, round-trip, for me to burn a CD-RW full of MP3's.

However, I think this is balanced by the fact that:

a) Burning on Mac OS X is dead simple. Insert media. Choose format type. Drag files to burn to recordable media icon which appears on desktop. Burn. Soooo much more simple than any program I'd ever used on Windows.

b) Compatability. The reviewer is correct in placing much emphasis on how compatible DVD-RW is with current players. No matter how good YOU may be at making things work, buying the right player, etc., the family is still going to think "that's stupid" when they take the movie you burned on DVD+RW, stick it in THEIR player, and see an error message.

IMHO, YMMV, etc, etc.

Re:Easy to Burn on Mac OS X (2)

Gryphon (28880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145670)

Take my mention of "DVD-RW" in point "b)" and substitute "DVD-R". My bad, though my point still stands.

BlueRay! (also known as Bob-o-rama) (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145671)

So what about the BlueRay system...who really wants to buy recordable DVD when besides two different standards, a new one is around the corner. Recordable DVDs seem obsolete before they even become mainstream. Beware.

What a fantastic summary... (5, Insightful)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145690)

From the article:

Ignoring for a moment the moral and legal implications of stealing content, this is all a huge PITA, and would in all seriousness probably take several hours for a typical movie. Is it really worth it? A practical example: I just picked up "Jay And Silent Bob Strikes Back" (sure, it's no "Clerks" or "Dogma" but I'm a fan of Smith's work). It has two DVDs crammed full of stuff. While I haven't checked, they pretty much have to be dual layer, because otherwise, why not just issue one dual-layer disc?

So there's four recordable DVDs worth of content, and a ton of time spent recreating menus and splitting content out over four discs, not to mention the cost of the four recordable discs themselves. When you're done, you have to switch between four discs instead of two, and you navigate them using crappy homemade menu screens instead of the cool ones on the original discs. Know how much this movie cost me? $17.99.

For the love of God, people, just go buy the damn movie.


Couldn't have said it better myself. If only Hollywood would rely on producing GOOD flicks, adding a little extra "value" (read: nice side features) to the DVD release, and releasing them for a FAIR price, which will make me *want* to buy the damn thing instead of increasing the incentive to just get a DivX copy without paying for it. The latter might be Wrong(TM) in my opinion, but I'm damned tempted sometimes. $30 for the Trainspotting DVD (my local Media Play) and it's just a dump of the VHS onto DVD with chapter selection slapped onto it. What a joke.

TV Series on DVD (5, Insightful)

Tsu-na-mi (88576) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145703)

Finally, we can have our favorite shows on DVD. If MTV Home Video doesn't want to release Daria on DVD, I can simply capture it off my DSS with a PC capture card, edit out the commercials, convert it to MPEG2 and author my own discs. It's work, but it's nothing _too_ hard. And technically, it's fair use.

Of course, I'd rather plunk down $120 to have MTV do all that work for me. Earth to movie companies: if you release it (at good quality and affordable prices), we WILL buy it. Stop trying to deny me the ABILITY to pirate video, and try denying me the MOTIVATION.

I own about 400 DVDs at this point, and buy 20 or more per month. TV series top my wish lists: Sopranos, Hogan's Heroes, Batman Animated, Batman Beyond, Twin Peaks, Simpsons, Futurama, The Young Ones, Daria, Farscape, and lots of others. I'd buy every one if you put them out.

Re:TV Series on DVD (1)

Tsu-na-mi (88576) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145729)

Oh, PS: I own a Pioneer DVR-A03. I primarily use it for data storage, tho said data is Divx fansubtitled anime for viewing on my Home Theater PC. I own about 400 "real" DVDs and buy another 20 or so per month. But the drive is nice to store things you can't buy.

Re:TV Series on DVD (1)

FartingTowels (553440) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145959)

Then go and buy: http://chicago.about.com/library/picks/aapr_dvdsop ranos.htm http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue199/screen2.html

Re:TV Series on DVD (1)

Alexander the Drake (312103) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145981)

TV series top my wish lists: Sopranos, Hogan's Heroes, Batman Animated, Batman Beyond,

You can start getting B:TAS in April, according to Amazon [amazon.com] . I was hoping for a boxed set, but it's got the first five episodes in production order, so maybe they'll release more.

Also, the uncut version of the Batman Beyond movie will be out, as well as Justice League and Sub-Zero.

Look outside of Region 1 (3, Informative)

Namarrgon (105036) | more than 12 years ago | (#3146022)

TV series top my wish lists:

I'm sure you're aware the first season [amazon.com] of the Simpsons is now available on DVD, with the second season due in May.

What's more, I recently bought the first seasons of Futurama [amazon.co.uk] and Family Guy [amazon.co.uk] , in London - Region 2 only.

Why were they released in Region 2 first, when they're far more known & popular in Region 1? Who knows. Still looking for The Young Ones though.

10 pack dvd RW for $28 on pricewatch only 4x CDR (1)

j_dot_bomb (560211) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145730)

10 pack dvd RW for $28 on pricewatch only 4 times the price of CDR per gig and close to the price of CD-RW

25 packs for $60 last one I bought (1)

Tsu-na-mi (88576) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145743)

http://www.meritline.com is where I buy my DVD media. Less than $60 for 25 discs. They seem to work fine--I've burned 20 without problems so far.

They were $72 for 25 just a month earlier.

Re:25 packs for $60 last one I bought (1)

j_dot_bomb (560211) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145802)

I went there. Less than $60 for ==DVD-R==. But the price for 25 DVD-RW (not+RW which I couldnd find quantity of) is $120

Alan Thicke. DEAD. (-1)

Alan_Thicke (553655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145773)

I just heard the sad news on CBC radio. Comedy actor/writer Alan Thicke was found dead in his home this morning. Even if you never liked his work, you can appreciate what he did for 80's television. Truly a Canadian icon. [slashdot.org]
He will be missed :(



Show me That Smile (The Growing Pains Theme Song):

Show me that smile again.
Ooh show me that smile.
Don't waste another minute on your crying.
We're nowhere near the end.
We're nowhere near.
The best is ready to begin.

As long as we got each other
We got the world
Sitting right in our hands.
Baby rain or shine;
All the time.
We got each other
Sharing the laughter and love.

A lot of numbers (1, Funny)

neonstz (79215) | more than 12 years ago | (#3145905)

The funny thing about DVD-recorders is all the different speeds they support. Like, "Hey, check out my new DVD-+RWRAM! A whopping 2x/1x/8x/4x/4x/2x/2x/24x/16x/10x/4x. Ain't that fast or what?"

LA LA LA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3145954)

How do you like it? How do you like it?

La la la! How do you like it? How do you like it?

Had To Go DVD-R(W) Here... (4, Interesting)

BRock97 (17460) | more than 12 years ago | (#3146037)

I studied lots of material for over six months before coming to my conclusion to go with the industry standard. The speed of the DVD+R(W) was tempting, but there were quite a few motivating points that made me swing the other way. In no particular order:
  • All those wonderful PowerMac/iMac machines that are being pumped out have the Pioneer drive in them. Even if the DVD+ format wins out, there will still be quite a few people making disks down the road. With Apple behind them, though, I thought it a safe bet it would have a pretty large margin share. (Before you go "Apple only has single-digit % market share", I am aware, but alot of people I know think "If it is on a Mac for AV, it must be pretty good).
  • Compatibility was a huge issue for me. I have quite a few family members with DVD players that I don't know about. With DVD-R, I am almost always guaranteed that the disc will work on their player. That way, I can send a disc out without worrying about it not working.
  • To be honest, I have been tracking the DVD+ standards group, and their inability to come to an agreement on the +R standard until very recently had me kind of upset. To top that off, companies promising DVD+R upgrades (HP included) have quietly removed this notice from their websites and their products. One of the forums I visited even had an anonymous report that a tech said they will not upgrade the units. Don't have time to wait for you guys to pull your thumbs out of your butts, guys....
  • Finally, my biggest motivation: price. Best Buy had one on the shelf for $300 with an additional 10% off at the register. Couldn't pass that up.
Sure, there are drawbacks. As the article mentioned, write times are slow. If I am burning a DVD-RW to test on my x-box, I might as well go and get dinner with friends. The unit is also a little slow on the read, but nothing a second DVD-ROM drive didn't fix. The other thing that might deter some folks is that the software is way under-developed. I wish Adobe would just build DVD creation support into Premiere so I would have a nice all in one solution for my digital camcorder, but I can dream.

In all, I am glad at my purchase. As I mentioned above, compatiblity has be fantastic, and I have something that I can play digitally for quite some time.
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