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IBM 120GXP Revisited

CmdrTaco posted more than 12 years ago | from the spin-up-spin-down-repeat-until-dead dept.

Technology 360

Andrew sent us a link to an article about the IBM 120gxp controversy. This is about the fact that the drive has been declared unfit for server use, and to back that up, IBM says you should only use it for 333 hours a month. This is a good summary of the issues and worth a read.

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Widening is fixed? (-1)

by FortKnox on (563942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180861)

.I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enough .charaters .per .line .that .really .sucks .when .that .happens .and .you .have .to .put .some .lame .lameness .filter .defeater .text .in .there .i .wonder .how .many .people .will .read .this .whole .comment .I .certainly .hope .it .doesnt .annoy .too .many .people .This .is .just .the .beginning .because .PAGE .WIDENING .IS .BACK .I .like .wide .pages .I .wish .all .pages .could .be .as .wide .as .this .dont .you .wide .pages .are .much .cooler .than .those .narrow .pages .you .are .used .to .reading .because .you .dont .have .to .worry .about .the .lameness .filter .telling .you .that .you .don't .have .enoug

page widening is a form of terrorism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180953)

and should be punished as such. Does anyone have connections with the fbi so this guy can be brought to justice?

be informative, at least ! (-1)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180979)

STAR .WARS .EPISODE .TWO: .ATTACK .OF .THE .CLONES .early .cut .review .I .saw .Star .Wars .Episode .Two: .Attack .of .the .Clones .hours .ago. .The .'how' .of .that .will .be .a .thing .of .mystery .buried .in .a .passed .piece .of .paper .from .my .book .signing .with .a .hotel, .a .room .number .and .a .time .listed .upon .it.You .don't .want .to .know .about .that .room .or .the .persons .in .that .room, .you .want .to .know .about .Episode .Two.Jar .Jar .Binks.Jar .Jar .has .a .15 .second .StepInFetchIt .shuffle .speak .routine .he .does .as .he .goes .to .first .let .Obi .Wan .Kenobi .and .Anakin .Skywalker .into .the .Amidala's .quarters .that .is .so .offensively .awful, .that .it .will .not .only .make .you .recoil .in .horror, .but .it .will .remind .you .of .all .of .the .worst .aspects .of .his .character .from .THE .PHANTOM .MENACE.I .wanted .to .burn .the .film, .destroy, .maim .and .murder .it .at .this .stage.I .was .steeling .myself .from .the .impending .incompetence, .the .horror .of .my .childhood .being .molested.I .was .prepared .to .have .a .very .bad .time.I .found .myself .not .liking .Anakin .Skywalker .at .all, .he's .a .punk .spoiled .bratf**k .A .snotty .nosed .ego .trip, .that .angry .evil .high .school .football .quarterback .that .wants .the .head .cheerleader.He .whines .like .a .Mark .Hamill .squealing .about .going .to .Toshi .Station .to .get .some .power .converters.There .is .much .anger .in .him.He's .impulsive, .conflicted, .out .of .control .and .a .mass .murderer.Everytime .I .saw .him .and .Natalie .Portman .together, .I .wanted .to .tell .her .to .run, .fly .you .fool.But .am .I .not .supposed .to .feel .that .way? .So .did .George .Lucas .drop .the .ball? .Did .he .rape .our .childhood? .Has .he .turned .into .nothing .more .than .flannel .wearing .toy .salesman .without .a .soul .or .an .eye .for .storytelling .anymore? .Was .I .disappointed .to .such .a .state .that .I .wanted .to .yell .and .scream .and .break .my .original .12 .inch .Boba .Fett .and .defecate .upon .it .in .a .ritualistic .purging .of .all .that .was .once .sacred .to .my .childhood? .To .answer .all .of .those .questions .THANK .GOD .NO .Lucas .succeeds .with .the .film .beyond .my .wildest .dreams .I .was .scared .and .thrilled .to .be .watching .Episode .2.The .entire .time .I .was .in .that .hotel .room, .I .was .convinced .that .agents .of .Lucasfilm .were .going .to .knock .down .the .doors .and .I .knew .I .was .being .set .up .for .a .fall.I .mean, .it .isn't .possible .to .see .STAR .WARS .early.I .know .that, .but .there .I .was .watching .it.Listening .to .the .sounds .of .drunk .SXSW .revelers .falling .into .the .door .outside. .After .about .20 .minutes .of .that .awareness .everything .but .the .film .ceased .to .exist.The .lights .in .the .room .dimmed .in .my .mind.The .persons .in .the .room .shrank .like .Scott .Carey .into .the .microverse.Everything .about .me .was .concentrating .upon .the .film.The .movie .was .not .complete.There .were .moments .where .the .effects .were .quite .rough, .but .the .work .that .was .finished, .was .beyond .reproach.How .do .I .explain .the .success .of .ATTACK .OF .THE .CLONES? .First, .I .must .say .that .this .film .makes .THE .PHANTOM .MENACE .a .better .film.In .fact, .I .would .have .to .say .that .not .only .does .it .do .that, .but .suddenly .you .will .realize .with .horror, .exactly .why .Jar .Jar .Binks .is .in .the .series .at .all. .Upon .first .viewing, .in .less .than .ideal .circumstances, .I .must .say .that .I .feel .that .this .is .by .far .the .most .entertaining .Star .Wars .film .to .date.It .may .not .have .that .innocent .sense .of .wonder .for .the .first .film.It .doesn't .have .that .sense .of .intimacy .that .EMPIRE .STRIKES .BACK .had, .or .that .film's .desperation .However, .it .also .doesn't .have .the .trivial .frivolity .of .JEDI .or .MENACE.ATTACK .OF .THE .CLONES .is .a .turning .point .in .the .saga.The .point .of .no .return.I .love .this .film .desperately.I .want .to .continually .watch .it .for .about .a .week .with .my .best .friends.I .want .to .see .it .digitally .projected .with .sternum .shaking .sound.I .want .to .watch .as .friends .discover .the .twists .that .Palpatine/Sidious/Dooku .have .in .store .for .us.I .want .to .have .the .conversations .about .what .this .all .means, .the .speculative .conversations .about .how .these .elements .will .play .out .in .the .final .chapter .of .the .prequels.What .is .great .about .the .film? .Obi .Wan .Kenobi ./ .Ewan .McGregor.He .just .owns .the .role .now.There .is .amoment .in .the .Cantina/Sports .Bar .on .the .surface .level .of .Coruscant, .where .he .and .Anakin .have .chased .an .assassin.As .they .enter .this .packed .sciyuppiescum .club, .they .realize .they .can't .seem .to .be .able .to .see .'the .assassin' .anymore.Anakin .wants .to .rush .in, .tear .the .place .apart .looking .for .the .suspect.Obi .Wan .tells .him .to .slow .down .or .something .then .turns .to .head .in .a .different .direction, .Anakin .asks .him, ."Where .you .going?" .to .which .Kenobi .dryly .responds, ."To .get .something .to .drink." .Kenobi .is .just .that .calm .about .things.He .is .the .king .of .cool.He'll .get .his .suspect, .but .he's .going .to .get .a .drink .first.Priorities.I .was .reminded .of .him .telling .Luke .to .let .go .and .to .trust .his .feelings. .He .doesn't .repeat .that .here, .he .simply .lets .go .and .trusts .his .feelings.We .see .it .as .an .action, .a .path .he .chose.Then .when .he .gets .to .that .bar, .leaning .on .it, .sipping .that .odd .drink, .a .drug .dealer .comes .up .to .him .and .asks, ."Wanna .buy .some .deathsticks?" .Obi .Wan .responds, ."You .don't .want .to .sell .me .death .sticks." .Drug .dealer .says, ."I .don't .want .to .sell .you .death .sticks." ."You .want .to .go .home .and .rethink .your .direction .in .life," .Kenobi .continues."I .want .to .go .home .and .rethink .my .direction .in .life," .the .dealer .says .as .he .blankly .turns .and .walks .out .of .the .club.Before .he .can .get .too .smug .about .his .little .trick .he .senses .the .assassin .behind .him .and .he .pulls .the .patented .Obi .Wan .pivoting .light .saber .at .a .bar .strike .that .you've .seen .in .the .trailer.He .gets .his .suspect .and .he's .never .broke .a .sweat.He .is .the .master.Kenobi .is .just .plainly .cool .in .the .film.Watch .how .he .handles .things .on .Camino .or .the .way .he .doesn't .betray .a .single .thought .in .his .conversation .with .Jango .Fett .there.He .knows .his .game, .his .methods .and .his .ways.He .is .confident .and .completely .on .the .clock.Ewan .is .relaxed .in .the .role, .clearly .having .fun .and .is .very .very .very .good .in .the .film.Contrary .to .Moriarty's .assertion .that .he .would .be .more .'Han .Solo' .he .is .in .fact .much .more .Master .Li .Mu .Bai .Chow .Yun .Fat .from .CROUCHING .TIGER .HIDDEN .DRAGON .but .without .the .romance.Jango .Fett .- .Boba .Fett ./ .Temuera .Morrison .- .Daniel .Logan .I .love .this .pair.I .love .them .because .they .are .the .renegade .Father .and .Son.They .have .their .own .set .of .rules, .they .are .a .self .contained .functioning .unit.Jango .wanted .a .son .to .raise .his .own .way, .that .doesn't .mean .he .beats .him .and .does .evil .things.He .loves .his .kid.He's .training .him .to .be .a .good .Bounty .Hunter .like .he .is.There .is .very .much .a .father/son .- .Master/Apprentice .style .thing .going .on .here.And .they .have .my .favorite .moment .of .the .entire .film, .which .is .a .tiny .little .moment .between .these .two.Jango .and .Boba .are .headed .to .Genosia .when .they .pick .up .that .Kenobi .is .tailing .them.They .dive .into .the .asteroid .belt .surrounding .Genosia, .Obi .Wan .trails .behind .them, .not .being .lost.Jango .tells .Boba .something .like, ."Prepare .the .sonic .mines, .we'll .give .himf**k" .something, .I .couldn't .make .outf**k .but .Boba .presses .some .buttons .while .doing .what .I .can .only .describe .as .an .evil .gigglef**k .a .delighted .giggle.Jango .looks .at .him .smiling, .as .if .to .sayf**k ."That's .my .boy" .The .moment .is .so .honest .and .real.I've .never .seen .a .father .- .son .moment .like .this .in .science .fiction. .Completely .classic.Anakin .Skywalker .Padme .Amidala ./ .Hayden .Christensen .- .Natalie .Portman .First .Anakin .is .just .an .ass .in .this .film. .Like .I .said .earlier, .I .can't .stand .him.He's .like .that .boy .in .the .TWILIGHT .ZONE .movie .that .has .too .much .power .and .thinks .about .using .it .too .much, .but .sometimes .it .goes .terribly .astray.Portman's .Padme .in .this .film .has .mostly .dropped .the .'high .speak' .that .she .had .from .the .first .filmf**k.Injecting .into .her .character .far .more .vocal .variety .than .the .droll .monotone .of .the .first .film .that .killed .the .performance.Here .she .infuses .the .character .with .more .of .herself, .which .is .a .very .good .thing.I .like .that .she .doesn't .want .to .have .anything .to .do .with .Anakin.That .she .constantly .is .aware .of .all .the .reasons .they .shouldn't .be .together.Of .the .scandal.Of .their .careers.Anakin .hates .being .told .no.She .can .see .all .the .reasons, .but .when .they .go .through .what .they .go .throughf**k .When .the .emotional .binding .takes .place .between .these .characters .through .a .brief .adventure, .a .loss .of .a .loved .one, .a .decent .into .hellf**k .When .faced .with .certain .doom, .they .realize .that .life .is .too .short .to .worry .about .the .ifs .and .butsf**k .And .when .it .happensf**k .John .Williams' .love .theme .kicks .in.This .really .kicks .in .just .as .Anakin .and .Padme .kiss .before .being .taken .out .and .strung .up .in .the .arena .you .know .the .sequence .when .they .are .chained .against .the .pillars.It .actually .starts .from .the .shot .which .we .see .in .the .trailer .of .the .arena .with .all .the .Geonosis .creatures .seated .and .cheering .the .long .shot .looking .from .high .to .low.It .consists .of .maybe .three .instruments .playing .at .first, .classic .violin, .very .sorrowful .and .warm.It .almost .sounds .a .little .bit .like .the .theme .for .the .Incredible .Hulk .TV .series .with .Lou .Ferrigno.The .intros .are .similar .before .other .instruments .join .in.It .also .reminded .me .of .Francis .Lai's .theme .from .Arthur .Hiller's .LOVE .STORY.Although .it .is .strikingly .different .from .other .parts .in .the .film, .IT .FITS .IN .BEAUTIFULLY.Elegant .but .not .soppy.Gentle .but .not .melodramatic.Williams .thinking .differently .after .all, .a .very .different .relationship .from .Han .and .Leia .and .succeeding.It .starts .to .crescendo .as .the .lovers .are .wheeled .out .into .the .arena .reminded .me .of .the .shot .of .Luke .with .the .twin .suns .same .type .of .crescendo.It .continues .through .the .cuts .between .ObiWan .chained .and .them .being .taken .over .to .the .same .place .but .changes .into .a .military .drum .style .you .know, .the .thumping .dictatorship .heavy .beat .almost .like .the .'sacrifice .has .arrived'.This .changes .the .whole .tone .as .we .realize .their .'moment' .has .been .intruded .and .they .are .in .serious .poodoo.The .romance .is .handled .in .terms .of .familiarity .and .proximity. .This .is .that .sort .of .romance .where .one .loves .the .other, .but .only .at .the .point .of .an .emotional .precipice .where .the .other .could .see .that .they .shared .that .feeling .and .embrace .it.I .liked .this.PalpatineSidious .- .Count .DookuDarth .Tyrannus ./ .Ian .McDiarmid .- .Christopher .Lee .Wow. .Ok, .read .no .spoilers .about .all .of .this.I .remember .thinking .that .Lucas .could .be .soft .in .the .head .for .trying .to .fool .the .audience .into .thinking .Palpatine .isn't .Sidious.I .mean .we .can .see .that .in .the .credits.What .the .hell? .Right? .See .that .is .so .like .a .selfcentered .audience.To .sit .there .and .think .they .are .the .center .of .the .universe.The .PalpatineSidious .thing .from .the .first .filmf**k .The .trade .disputef**k .All .of .it .not .only .makes .sense .with .this .film, .but .the .way .it .unfolds.As .you .see .the .point .of .the .various .guises .and .namesf**k .How .Yoda .and .Windu .sense .no'disturbance' .around .Palpatinef**k .There .are .reasons .for .these .thingsf**k .Just .because .you .don't .know .them .yet, .doesn't .mean .Lucas .doesn't .know .what .he's .doingf**k .Upon .seeing .this .film, .seeing .how .he .handles .these .two .characters .being .4 .charactersf**k .It .is .genius.Compelling .Machiavellian .positioning .and .deception.There .are .points .in .this .film .where .I .wanted .to .scream .at .the .screen .and .say, ."Palpatine .is .an .evil .Sith .Lord .They're .conspiring .to .destroy .the .Republic .from .within" .That's .when .Christopher .Lee .essentially .tells .Obi .Wan .the .same .thingf**kMy .god.The .evil.The .evil .of .using .the .truth, .knowing .it .could .only .be .interpreted .as .being .a .deception .and .a .lie.The .Devil .uses .truth .to .betray .mankind, .because .he .is .expected .to .lief**k .and .the .truth .sounds .better, .but .will .never .be .believed.Just .wait .till .you .see .how .the .Death .Star .plays .into .thisf**k .You'll .friggin .die .FANTASTIC.YodaDooku .fightf**k .HOLY .GOD .Right .now .there .is .a .lot .of .speculation .about .Yoda .with .lightning.It .is .on .one .of .the .soundtrack .covers.When .you .look .at .that.When .people .described .the .ball .of .lightning .in .Yoda's .hands .from .ShoWest, .I .thought .they .were .insane.I .thought .only .the .bad .guys .did .that.When .I .saw .the .film, .wellf**k .I .can .tell .you .exactly .how .that .moment .plays .out.So .far .as .I .have .seen .that .hasn't .laked .and .it .isn't .a .huge .spoiler.When .Yoda .and .Dooku .first .set .up .to .go .at .it, .Dooku .hurls .lightning .at .Yodaf**k .Yes, .Chris .Lee's .character .is .that .strong.Perhaps .the .strongest .character .with .the .force .I .have .ever .seen .in .Star .Wars .history.He .attacks .Yoda .with .lightning, .Yoda .captures .it, .twirls .it .around, .balls .it .up .and .redirects .it .back .at .Lee.When .I .saw .this, .I .screamed .like .a .little .girl.I .mean .it .was .like .Uncle .Tony .grabbed .my .pantied .ass.I .jumped .about .12 .feet .up .in .the .air .and .squealed.WHAT .A .THRILL .The .Yoda .- .Dooku .fight .is .astonishing.I .can .not .emphasize .that .enough.I .have .been .thinking .for .quite .some .time .that .there .was .no .way .on .earth .that .Yoda .with .a .light .saber .could .look .cool.Folks, .not .only .does .it .look .cool, .but .there .will .be .a .collective .scream .of .HOLY .SHIT .when .what .happens .happens.Yoda's .fighting .style .isf**k .well .let's .just .say .he .could .kick .all .your .asses.Oh .and .by .the .way, .Williams'DUEL .OF .THE .FATES .was .nothing .in .comparison .to .this.Remember .Vader .vs .Luke .in .EMPIREf**k .How .overwhelmingly .powerful .Vader .felt .in .comparison .to .Luke.Remember .how .weak .Vader .felt .in .comparison .to .the .Emperor? .Now .imagine .someone .with .The .emperor's .powers .in .a .full .on .battle .with .a .master.Here .towers .of .metal .are .torn .asunder .with .the .power .of .the .force.The .ceiling .ripped .apart.Seemingly .unlimited .strength .with .the .force.You .will .quiver, .shake .and .scream.You .are .warned.You .have .to .understand .something .in .going .into .this .film.What .you .have .seen .in .Star .Wars .movies .before .were .skirmishesf**k .incidentsf**k .Remember, .The .Battle .of .Hoth .was .small, .a .minor .hiccup.In .ATTACK .OF .THE .CLONES, .you .have .the .first .REAL .Star .War.It .isn't .a .space .battle, .but .you .understand .the .scale .of .things.The .size .and .scope .of .a .MAJOR .OFFENSIVE.And .unlike .in .PHANTOM .MENACE, .where .Lucas .decided .to .cut .up .the .action .by .trying .to .intercut .three .consecutive .arenas .of .battle, .here .he .portrays .the .action .linearlyf**k .basically .following .Obi .Wan .and .Anakin .and .Padmef**k .who .all .basically .stick .together, .with .Padme .taking .a .roll .in .some .sand .to .miss .out .on .the .Dooku .battle.After .the .film .was .finished .playing .I .was .just .beside .myself .with .glee.Right .now .it .is .a .very .interesting .time .for .Star .Wars .fandom.PHANTOM .MENACE .polarized .the .audience .into .the .faithful .and .those .that .felt .it .had .all .gone .wrong.That .everything .was .doomed.With .the .introduction .of .MATRIX .and .LORD .OF .THE .RINGS .into .fan .circles, .there .began .to .be .a .real .angry .mix.Fights, .screamings .and .hurling .of .'love .it .or .leave .it' .style .rhetoric.Watching .the .trailers .for .STAR .WARS: .ATTACK .OF .THE .CLONES .in .theaters, .the .audiences .seemed .muted .in .comparison .to .the .delightful .screams .of .approval .from .the .SPIDERMAN .trailers.You .know .those .guys .that .have .been .camping .up .in .Portland? .The .experience .they .are .going .to .have .in .the .theater .upon .that .first .showingf**k .They .will .be .so .completely .happy.Now .the .cut .I .saw .was .still .a .bit .rough .around .the .edges, .but .folksf**k .I .can't .wait .to .see .this .on .the .big .screen .complete.To .see .what .gets .cut, .what .gets .changed, .what .I .notice .when .watching .this .movie .the .way .Lucas .meant .for .people .to .see .it.The .sources .that .showed .it .to .me .were .tired .of .all .my .LORD .OF .THE .RINGS .stuff.They .were .tired .of .all .the .rhetoric .about .Tolkien, .all .the .focus .I .had .on .LORD .OF .THE .RINGS.They .wanted .someone .outside .of .the .ranch, .outside .of .the .'circle', .someone .that .seemed .to .be .straying .from .the .fold .to .see .what .it .was .that .Lucas .had .done.What

Re:page widening is a form of terrorism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181001)

If you don't like the way your browser renders, fix it. Or read at threshold 0.

Re:page widening is a form of terrorism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181038)

You can't fix a browser, they're all either closed source or so hideously bloated that it would take years to recompile.

Re:page widening is a form of terrorism (1, Offtopic)

BlueUnderwear (73957) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181137)

Maybe you can't fix a browser, but you can chose one that works ;-) Konqueror!

Pair.net (2, Interesting)

elucidus (245536) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180862)

pair.net replaced all server drives that were IBM with Maxtor:
http://www.pair.com/pair/support/notices/ driveswap s.html

I've been buying Maxtor since, and haven't had a single problem.

Re:Pair.net (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180878)

I'd have to agree, we have over 48 Maxtor drives in RAID configurations, havn't had one fail yet. We also havn't seen any Maxtor failures in desktop computers in years.

Maxtor Drives... (1)

nubbie (454788) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181153)

hrmm... havn't had any maxtor fail in years? i remember when maxtor drives were like prizes in cracker jack boxes, every once in a while you got a good one; but since maxtor and quantum combined forces, maxtor has become a very decent drive. i'm even thinking about getting some of their 160gb drives to make up a file server.

Early Post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180869)

This early post for Aura Lee!

When the blackbird in the spring,
On the willow tree,
Sat and rocked, I heard him sing,
Singing Aura Lee
Aura Lee, Aura Lee,
Maid of golden hair;
Sunshine came along with thee,
And swallows in the air.
Chorus

In thy blush the rose was born,
Music when you spake,
Through thine azure eye the morn,
Sparkling seemed to break.
Aura Lee, Aura Lee,
Bird of crimson wing,
Never song have sung to me,
In that sweet spring.
Chorus

Aura Lee! The bird may flee,
The willows golden hair
Swing through winter fitfully,
On the stormy air.
Yet if thy blue eyes I see,
Gloom will soon depart;
For to me, sweet Aura Lee
Is sunshine through the heart.
Chorus

When the mistletoe was green,
Midst the winter's snows,
Sunshine in thy face was seen,
Kissing lips of rose.
Aura Lee, Aura Lee,
Take my golden ring;
Love and light return with thee,
And swallows with the spring.
Chorus

Chorus: Aura Lee, Aura Lee,
Maid of golden hair;
Sunshine came along with three,
And swallows in the air.

What happened ... (-1)

Guns n' Roses Troll (207208) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180872)

IBM was infiltrated by Zionist rats. The formerly White company is now completely Jew infested, top to bottom. You can't expect quality from a Jew business.

Yes, yes, we get the point. (0, Flamebait)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180875)

When will hardware sites stop writing about this? Yes, we all know IBM's IDE drives are shitty now, and that we shouldn't buy them. We've had this drilled into our heads since last June. Can we please find something else to write about??

- A.P.

Re:Yes, yes, we get the point. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180893)

IBM isn't taking the necessary steps to provide satisfactory drives. Instead, they declared that their drives must not be used 24/7, which some buyers will certainly fail to notice before it's to late. That's a new twist to an old issue, thus "news".

Re:Yes, yes, we get the point. (3, Insightful)

marcop (205587) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181143)

Yes, we all know IBM's IDE drives are shitty now,

OK, maybe you were just trolling, but with your low UID I will give you a chance.

What drive manufacturer do you think is good then? From random reviews I was starting to think that IBM was one of the better ones. I have purchases several Western Digital ones and have had too many of them fail (for me that is). Therefore, I have been looking for a better HD manufactuer. Who makes the most reliable HDs today?

333hr limit? (-1, Offtopic)

Loki_1929 (550940) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180880)

Boy, that just rings of quality; doesn't it?

Re:333hr limit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180906)

That's not 333 hours MTBF, mind you, even if some would claim that it's close to the truth.

8 hours a day? Please... (4, Informative)

Cutriss (262920) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180884)

I think part of the trouble here is that IBM is selling these drives as OEM parts, and not retail drives. OEMs generally don't sell systems to the enthusiast market (The group most likely to leave systems running all day). In your average Dell/Compaq/Cow computer, it's preset to go on standby after an hour or so, powering off the drive. Since all of us "power users" don't like those performance-detracting ACPI/APM functions, we always disable them.

Furthermore, the DeskStar isn't intended to be a server part - IBM makes the UltraStar for that.

So, in essence, it's buyer-beware with OEM parts. Just like with the ATI video card debacle - You're buying parts that aren't intended for *you* to use. It's your fault if you're tryin' to skimp a couple of bucks out of IBM/ATI/whoever by buying on the grey market.

Now, that said...it's pretty fscking ridiculous to be making these drives and all but marketing them as the fastest ATA drives on the planet. That's practically hyping it up to the enthusiast market right there. And I really think it's asinine to expect these drives to *only* be run 8 hours a day. Factoring in the average lunch break when the computer will most likely get left on, that means that the drives are generally running out of spec on a regular business day in your average workstation.

Re:8 hours a day? Please... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180904)

Exactly how many days are in YOUR months? 333 hours per month seems to be more than 10 hours per day.

Re:8 hours a day? Please... (2)

Cutriss (262920) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180920)

11.1 hours per day runtime is for the 120GXP, but Slashdot is really on the trailing end of this issue.

The problem is most noteworthy on the 75GXP and the 60GXP - It's been around a lot longer than the 120GXP has...And the spec'd time for the 60/75GXP is shorter than 333 hours per month. Don't ask me to find it on the IBM webpage - I got that from HardOCP and some other place over a week ago.

Re:8 hours a day? Please... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180922)

Hey, real enthusiasts use SCSI.

Re:8 hours a day? Please... (3, Informative)

Cutriss (262920) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180928)

For those of you that notice that 333 / 30 != 8, please read this link [storagereview.com] .

Re:8 hours a day? Please... (5, Informative)

Loki_1929 (550940) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181000)

"OEMs generally don't sell systems to the enthusiast market (The group most likely to leave systems running all day)."

Oh please, probably 80% of the drives sold online (where most enthusiasts get their drives) are OEM. The average person buys a retail Maxtor at CompUSA, whereas most people who have some idea of what it is they're buying (aka enthusiasts) get the drive without all the extra cardboard/paperwork from either a local computer shop or from the internet. The drives purchased seperately as OEM are the workhorses. All my drives (6 of them) are OEM and they spin full speed 24/7 with maybe an hour of maintenance downtime every 3 months.

But they don't get spun down (2)

phr2 (545169) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181003)

Even in those Dell systems. Windoze likes to access the disk every few minutes, so it keeps spinning. I know this because I had a Windoze box in my bedroom for a while and the disk kept spinning up at night.

Also, these drives do show up in retail... I saw them at Fry's last week and I think CompUSA has them too.

Re:8 hours a day? Please... (1)

O2n (325189) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181056)

Since all of us "power users" don't like those performance-detracting ACPI/APM functions, we always disable them.

Actually, it's enough to have the seti@home (or united devices/ distributed net/ whatever) client running to stop the computer from getting into standby/suspend.

It's called ACPI [acpi.info] - gone are the times you had to press shift from time to time... :)

You know when an article is good... (5, Funny)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180886)

...when it manages a reference to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy as an explanatory allegory. That's cool.

Beware of the Leopard.

goat (-1)

cmdr_shithead (527909) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180889)

goats for peace now

So what are they good for? (3, Insightful)

AstroMage (566990) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180890)

My take on this:

If they aren't good for the server market, the 120GXP aren't good for anything- since what regular home user ever needs that much space?

Oh, and BTW, the article also mentions problems with the 75X and 40X drives.

Conclusion- Somebody at IBM QA has screwed up- vote with your $$, folks, and make IBM take notice of this problem- we should not have to replace a HD after only 1 year (or less!) of use!

Re:So what are they good for? (1)

Wells2k (107114) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180962)

Oh, and BTW, the article also mentions problems with the 75X and 40X drives.

I know that we have been having a ton of problems with the Maxtor 40gb drives as well. I can't count how many of those drives we have sent back for RMA replacement. Heck, Maxtor knows me on a first name basis these days. And this is despite the industry praise [google.com] for these drives...

Re:So what are they good for? (3, Informative)

sconeu (64226) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181151)

Yep, I had two D540X drives die on me in the space of two months (the second was the replacement for the first). Incidentally, the reason for the allegedly high die rate on those drives is that they are QUANTUM FIREBALL drives. At least, that's what Maxtor's RMA website told me...

Re:So what are they good for? (1)

Fixer (35500) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180971)

If they aren't good for the server market, the 120GXP aren't good for anything- since what regular home user ever needs that much space?

'Scuse me? What home user ever needs that much space?! In my sixteen years of personal computer ownership, I have NEVER felt that I have had "enough" space. True, I'm not your typical user these days, but still.

However, your greater point is accurate, 11 hours a day doesn't cut it.

Re:So what are they good for? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180980)

If you really want to vote with your $ and make IBM take notice of the problem, buy an IBM drive! They take a loss every time you RMA a drive after all.

Re:So what are they good for? (1)

Strog (129969) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181144)

I'm RMAing one right now. This is the second 40Gb IBM hd I've had to RMA for my personal use. This drive is a little over 6 months old. My wife didn't listen when I told her to back up her stuff to the server. The good news is that I have now have a green light to buy some more drives and setup some RAID arrays. So it's not all bad for me.

I had her trying out a LTSP [ltsp.org] terminal to convince her that she doesn't need a hd at all. I can make this work if I can find a IM client that supports all of MSN Messenger's smileys. I get to deal with end-users at home too. :P

No more new IBM drives for me until I see better drives.

Re:So what are they good for? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180982)

what regular home user ever needs that much space?

You're forgetting the people that collect thousands of mp3s.

Re:So what are they good for? (2)

Zathrus (232140) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181106)

You're forgetting the people that collect thousands of mp3s.


No he's not. Let's read the statement again. (Emphasis mine)

what regular home user ever needs that much space?

Anyone collecting enough MP3's, MPEG-4's, or whatever to need a 120GB drive doesn't fall into the category of a "regular" user currently.

And, more to the point, anyone who does need the storage space for their home-grown collection is also going to be the kind of person that needs more than 8 hours/day of uptime.

Have to agree with the original poster here - the drives have no market if you plan to stay in spec.

Of course, a lot of the drives will end up used in 12-24 hours/day situations by people. And some may actually live a "normal" lifespan. But you're playing russian roulette with your data and pocketbook at that point. I'm sure I'm not the only one who will say "no thanks" to that.

Re:So what are they good for? (2)

teg (97890) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180987)

With digital music and video (video editing on your home computer), there will never be enough space....

Re:So what are they good for? (2)

jonnythan (79727) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181096)

The 120GXP drives start at 40 GB. I don't think that's too much space for a home user.

Oh, and BTW, the article mentions problems with the 75GXP (fails all the time, as reported about a year ago) and the 60GXP, not the 75X and 40X.

Re:So what are they good for? (2)

qurob (543434) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181103)



MP3

Porn

Digital Photos

Those three alone make a 40GB look small

Windows XP/Office XP take up a large fraction of disk space alone. Lets not get into games

Re:So what are they good for? (2, Funny)

Airline_Sickness_Bag (111686) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181113)

>If they aren't good for the server market, the 120GXP aren't good for anything- since what regular home user ever needs that much space?

Video editing.

Or Office 2003.

-asb

Backupping my cd collection... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181115)

... will take about 2Tb. I'm planning on doing that in two years with a rack of HDs.

Microsoft Windows XP! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181118)

If they aren't good for the server market, the 120GXP aren't good for anything- since what regular home user ever needs that much space?

Microsuckers, obviously? Or where else are you going to store your 1GB/page Word XP documents?

Re:So what are they good for? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181139)

Conclusion- Somebody at IBM QA has screwed up- vote with your $$,
folks, and make IBM take notice of this problem- we should not have to
replace a HD after only 1 year (or less!) of use!


Yeah, that oughta teach them to spend their money wisely. What were they thinking, putting One Billion Dollars into linux instead of something useful like QA!

I think.. (0, Troll)

kafka93 (243640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180896)

..I'm going to buy two of them, and build a machine of pure eeeeeevil..

Re:I think.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181016)

You'll never beat my old 486 when it comes to pure eeeeeevil. A lot of alt- combinations on the keyboard don't work, the sound card is dodgy, the monitor is blurry, it has only 16MB of RAM, and the CPU (which I'm pretty sure is overclocked, did AMD ever make a 486/DX4/100?) locks up far more often than the bugs in Windows account for. It's probably the most eeeeeevil computer ever created. If I ran Linux on it it would probably explode from the tension between good and eeeeeevil.

Why I will never buy any GXP drive (2, Informative)

kraf (450958) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180916)

Take a look at this [tech-report.com] .
Scary.

Personal Experience (2, Informative)

AlexDeGruven (565036) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180918)

I bought a computer with a 75GXP in it last may, by Thanksgiving, the read/write heads had started making sounds as though it were thrashing, looking for a landing zone. By the time I was able to call the manufacturer of my computer (Christmas time), the computer had completely failed to boot.
Hopefully, the replacement they sent will last more than 6 months. But, just in case, I have a Maxtor 60GB in place as a backup. At least this time, if it goes down, I won't have to wait for the replacement.

At first they are quiet (2, Informative)

xr6791 (244764) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180919)

What bothers me most about IBM drives is they get more and more noisy through time. When I bought their 40GB 5400rpm model I was pleased by its quiet operation. After six months I noticed the drive is somewhat noisy and later the noise became unbearable for me. The same happened to a 20GB. Can anyone confirm these problems? What about their newer drives?

Re:At first they are quiet (1)

MCZapf (218870) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181061)

After six months I noticed the drive is somewhat noisy and later the noise became unbearable for me.

I think this is universal. I've noticed this happen to Fujitsu, Seagate, Maxtor, and Western Digital drives that I've owned (3.5, 17, 80, 120 GB, respectively).

Re:At first they are quiet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181067)

This phenomenon is getting on my nerves, too. The noise is obviously caused by non-fatal wear on the bearings. All harddisks which I have bought since harddisks became "silent" have exhibited this annoying degradation. Those where/are IBM and Maxtor drives. I'm wondering if this is enough reason for returning them. Then on the other hand I know that the replacement will become noisy too, so why bother.

Butt how good is is really? (-1, Offtopic)

Rock 'N' Troll (566273) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180921)

This just sucks. It's so bad that I dunno what to say. I mean look at it - the stupidity and gayness it radiates and everybody just keeeps staring at it like the stupid Linux freaks they are. Go Microsoft!

Urgent Linux news! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180923)

I would like to bring to the attention of my fellow Slashdot readers some troubling news: Linux is being used by Al Qaeda, Abu Sayyaf, and other terrorist organizations with equally cool sounding names as an affordable and powerful tool for purposes of recruitment, passing coded messages regarding planned terrorist operations, and other insidious purposes. I will attempt to show some of the more obvious proofs I have discovered to back up my arguments.

  • The presence of an Islamic calendar (cal-islam.elc) as included with the xemacs package. This calendar is likely being used for determining significant dates (such as September 11) for terrorist attacks.
  • The word "terror" is mentioned several times in the Linux kernel source code (svr4.c in the abi/svr4 directory). This file was written by Mike "Jagdis" which is an obvious Islamic reference to terrorism.
  • The phrase, "terrorist act" is actually present in drivers/char/ip2main.c.
  • There are several references to the WTC buildings, again in the Linux kernel source code (in the drivers/scsi directory).
  • The freetype code includes the file internal/tterrors.h -- an obvious reference to "international terrorism".
  • Various files in drivers/char and drivers/scsi refer to "religious disputes" and "religious issues" (likely, the issues between God fearing American christians and evil Islamic terror mongers).
  • The word "plane" (a reference to the tragic airplane hijackings of September 11th) appears in several places in the drivers/char/drm directory.
  • Various references to the words "evil", "destroy", "bomb", "warrior", and "hate" scattered in places too numerous to mention.
  • The word "hijack" appears in Documentation/kernel-docs.txt, and "hijacking" in drivers/char/ChangeLog, which is also an obvious suggestion for future attacks.
  • The file fs/jffs/intrep.c contains the phrase, "Might as well commit suicide", which is an obvious suggestion to would-be terrorists to commit suicide bombings.
  • One of the maintainers goes by the name, "Andreas Bombe", with the e-mail address, andreas.bombe@munich.netsurf.de [mailto] . Obviously this is a hidden message indicating the next target for terrorist bombings is some place in Munich, Germany.
  • Take a look at the book cover [amazon.com] of ``Professional Linux Programming'' and decide for yourself which of the 15 authors has obvious terrorist links.

I am sure I have only scratched the surface of this disturbing conspiracy. I strongly urge the Slashdot readership to support American companies such as Microsoft [microsoft.com] who only hire patriotic American citizens and to boycott any company which is involved with Linux (as they are directly supporting terrorists). I sincerely hope the CIA or FBI can look into the actions of open source developers. People like Linus Torvalds should be taken into custody and have all assets seized.

Act now before it is too late!


They were gonna'... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180925)

...say 666 hours, but...you know...
Better play it safe.

8 hours uptime a day! (0, Funny)

bbh (210459) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180929)

Ok, I'll just tell the boss we have to shutdown the webserver every day before we go home! What a great ecommerce solution :P

bbh

Re:8 hours uptime a day! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180946)

Go for time-sharing-RAID: three drives, only one on at a time, handover every 8 hours by mirroring the active drive to the next before putting it to rest for 16 hours.

not such a bright idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181104)

when you mean "one on at a time".. what happens to the other 2 drives?

personally, i'd disable any power management of any sort.. i've had problems in the past where i've had blackouts.. and most HD's that failed to boot or had any boot problems afterwards were running some sort of a power management mode.

then again, i'd assume any smart company would consider in running a UPS :-P

Did IBM market these as drives for server? (2, Interesting)

zapfie (560589) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180930)

Why is there a fuss over these drives being unsuitable for servers? Were these drives marketed to the server market? I think I'm out of the loop on this one.. can anyone fill me in on the full story? I was a little confused after reading the article.

Re:Did IBM market these as drives for server? (2, Interesting)

Arimus (198136) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180958)

Yes and no ;>

They're pitched at the low end workgroup level servers rather than your enterprise server but regardless of whether they're server or home or whatever its pretty poor performance if you take the worse case interpretation of the 333 hours - 333 hours on as opposed to 333 hours of actual head activity (rw)....

My home pc is usually on 24/7 which would soon eat into that 333 per month...

Apart from the (skip milage concerns) how would y ou like it if GM told you you could only drive for 3 hours a month or your car would melt...

IBM Drives = Firestone Tires (2)

josquint (193951) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180932)

Geeez... Firestones where good untill a few models a few years ago, now they only sell Bridgestone :)

Wouldnt be suprised if IBM starts selling BMI drives :)

"BMI" drives? Copy protection? (1)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181002)

Wouldnt be suprised if IBM starts selling BMI drives :)

Except Broadcast Music Inc. [bmi.com] is a group of songwriters and music publishers. Watch these new "BMI" drives enforce copy protection to protect the rights of BMI members.

Re:IBM Drives = Firestone Tires (1)

AsylumWraith (458952) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181063)

How about HAL drives? :p

why not set up a /. poll to help collect data? (5, Interesting)

rnd() (118781) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180934)

If the editors are reading this, why not link to a /. poll to collect some additional data?

I have a light-duty server that has been running two 60GXP drives for the past 6 months with no trouble. After I heard about the problems with the 75GXP I switched from striping to mirroring in my raid configuration just to be safe.

When I heard about the 120GXP I figured that IBM was releasing the modified (glass plattered) version of the Deskstar drive in order to clear up any perception that the line had problems (due to the issues with the 75GXP). I decided to buy one to put in the new Athlon XP box I was building at the time. I've been using it for 2 months with no trouble (so far), but since I purchased it from a retailer I found on pricewatch, I doubt that I could follow the article's suggestion and return it. The performance benchmarks I've done suggest that the drive performs relatively well (135% of the 7200 RPM ATA100 reference drive in SiSoft Sandra's HD benchmark).

I probably won't buy another IBM drive for a while, however, based on the unresponsiveness of IBM to the problems as reported in the article.

Because online polls are completely meaningless (5, Insightful)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180986)

Seriously, though, online polls are completely meaningless. They are swayed by rigging and mass canvasing, and that's ignoring the basic tenent that only the motivated (or bored) bother voting in the first place.

Having said that, I find this whole debate intriguing. Firstly there is the fact that the 75GXP was a very big seller (performance and value packed into one), so the industry standard failure rates indicate that with normal failure rates there will still be more people with failed drives. Anecdotally I can say that myself, and several other people I know, have had zero problems with our 75GXP, but following standard Slashdot-esque thought processes I should extrapolate that out and say that therefore no one has every had a problem, and therefore the drive is perfect. I have heard stories about people who had to "replace it X times!", but in almost all cases you'll find that they grossly inproperly installed the drive with no venting space on both sides (and this is a case with drives from any manufacturer. I had a Maxtor die and opened the case to find that the OEM had sandwiched it between two other drives).

I saw an interview with one of the plaintiffs against IBM, and I'd swear I saw them subtly shift gears from saying that the 75GXP had a higher failure rate (I would guess that that they can't find numbers to back that up, and no numbers determined by a Slashdot polling are not sufficient to convince anyone but the converted), to saying that instead this is a lawsuit expressing outrage about any failures, and it is really a bellwether against all hard drive makers. Uh huh. Now there's this article that is basically thrown off by standard marketing and reliability metrics: The drive IS made for desktop use, and desktop use is normally about 8 hours a day of infrequent use, versus 100% usage 24 hours a day for some server drives. Perhaps they simply realize that the latter will naturally have a higher failure rate so they built that into the server drive prices, but they don't guarantee that for desktops? The article makes the contention that it is a usage heat issue, but that seems a bit silly as the drive will reach maximum temperature minutes after going to 100% usage (i.e. It's not still creeping upwards after 8 hours).

Re:Because online polls are completely meaningless (1, Redundant)

rnd() (118781) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181013)

Seriously, though, online polls are completely meaningless. They are swayed by rigging and mass canvasing, and that's ignoring the basic tenent that only the motivated (or bored) bother voting in the first place.


The way I look at it, I am curious what slashdot readers think of the drives, and whether they have a had a lot of problems. Slashdot is an audience of enthusiasts of varying levels of enthusiasm. I think the following poll would be informative:


Q: What has been your experience with IBM Deskstar drives?

I have had a good experience.

I have had a bad experience.

I know someone who has had a good experience.

I know someone who has had a bad experience.

I only use SCSI.

Cowboy Neal.

Re:why not set up a /. poll to help collect data? (4, Insightful)

Soko (17987) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180988)

2 reasons to not use a poll:

-Don't complain about lack of options. You've got to pick a few when you do multiple choice. Those are the breaks.

-This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. Rounding errors, ballot stuffers, dynamic IPs, firewalls. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane.

Besides, the poll title would have to be "Rant about your stupid fucking DeskStar HDD that ate your term paper here". The trolls would have a field day.

I've had no trouble with DeskStars myself, as long as they're kept cool and not put in a situation where thier duty cycle exceeds 40% or so. Anything above that means SCSI to me, anyway. Right tool for the job and all that, y'know?

Soko

Re:why not set up a /. poll to help collect data? (0, Offtopic)

hungsolo (562244) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180992)

And you think a response of "I spun CowboyNeal for x hours a day" is going to give you valid data???

Here is an idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180937)

Have each person buy one rather than just avoiding it... Put non critical data on it wait for it to fail, when it does return it, and the next one, and the next one, and the next one...

The point here is that the cost to jack up the cost to IBM. Returns and costs related to returns are a diffrent line item in the accounting Ledger. People tend to look at losses and see what can be done about it...

Do you like reading in lightmode? (-1)

by FortKnox on (563942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180939)

Then you'd better subscribe [sourceforge.net] or the big ads will actually invade some of your page (like the reply and change buttons...

BTW, no fix is intended for this because CmdrTaco has "higher priority" things to do than worry about whether his web site is useable...

IBM is crap lately.... (2)

Junta (36770) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180954)

I have seen these stories about the IDE drives and have heard people saying that IBM isn't doing well with IBM drives, but I have expereinced that QA in general with IBM is crap. The other day we received a system direct from IBM, a rackmount server. The thing shipped with no hard drive. Additionally, an upgrade we ordered pre-installed came in a separate box. When calling to get the order fixed, the order number on the box was not listed in their database. Eventually they said the order number on the box was only a 'partial' order number, and the hard drive was shipped.

Three of the four CDs they shipped were cracked beyond usability, packing was horrible. IBM needs to get QA better before I'll considr them again for purchases.

Re:IBM is crap lately.... (1)

spagma (514837) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181026)

You should be referring to QC rather than QA. QC is quality control in the sales and distribution area, QA is quality assurance, in the research and design phase. So if the product is shipped incorrectly blame QC, if the design of the product is bad, then blame QA.

Re:IBM is crap lately.... (1)

Computer! (412422) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181128)

In my experience, these terms are interchangeable. In the East, they call it QA. In the West, they call it QC.

At least they have a "real" warranty.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180957)

At least IBM will replace failed drives within 3 years of purchase, unlike Western Digital.

I had a Western Digital drive fail less than 3 years after I bought it, and they refused to replace it. Their warranty starts 3 years from manufacture date. See my site [nowarranty.com] for more details.

(password forgetting coward)

Seems to be /.'ing (article text) (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3180967)

So heres the text...

The IBM 120GXP Revisited

The revelation that IBM's 120GXP line of drives was only rated for 333 hours of usage per month kicked off a storm of controversy and discussion both here at VH and at other websites as well. With little actual data to go on, however, speculation has run rampant and official response has been scarce. VH launched its own investigation into the issue with the goal of examining IBM's claims regarding the 120GXP's optimum usage, whether such claims were sufficiently documented, and how consumers may wish to respond to the situation. We've organized this article in a question-and-answer format to allow for simpler organization and easier reading, with the questions themselves designed to walk a reader through the situation.

IBM, unfortunately, would not provide additional information or official comment on the 120GXP situation, despite repeated phone calls and requests for data.

Is there a reliability problem with IBM hard drives?

This isn't an easy question to answer, especially with IBM withholding comment. While large numbers of readers responded to the questions I posed regarding drive reliability, their emails present very different pictures. Some of you swear by IBM drives and their reliability, while listing many of the Seagate, Maxtor, or WD drives you've seen fail in both a corporate and a consumer setting, while other readers had horror stories of seeing IBM drive after IBM drive bite the dust.

Based on the emails and feedback we received from earlier stories, however, the IBM drives seem to have one distinguishing characteristic--they fail faster. Most of the emails and commentary we received indicated drives that survived only a few months past their purchase date. My own personal experience mirrors this--of the three 75GXP drives I've replaced for customers, two of them were less than a year old, with the third being just shy of eighteen months.

If you take into account the fact that IBM is currently facing a lawsuit alleging that the 75GXP line is defective, it seems fairly clear that, at the least, IBM's 75GXP line is suffering from problems. How widespread the problems are, which drive models they affect, and what IBM is doing to fix them, however, is not clear. It's been suggested that all of the defective drives have shipped from a certain factory, but Big Blue has done nothing to confirm or deny this, or even acknowledged that a problem exists.

How does the 333 hour limit fit into the current situation, and what does the limit mean?

Last week, IBM dropped a bombshell on the hard drive community when Storage Review published a conversation between IBM and "a long time SR participant." The conversation stated that these drives were unsuited for any type of serious server role and should not be used as such.

To some, this is simply IBM covering the bases of liability by stating the drives should only be used eight hours a day, but means nothing else. Others of you have expressed grave concern that the newly-emphasized 333 hour limitation is, in fact, a tacit admission by IBM of problems with the 120, 75, and 60 GXP drives.

While there are arguments to be made for both sides, the bulk of the evidence points to the latter rather than the former. Several websites (including Tweaktown) have published articles indicating that the 75 (and possibly even the 60 GXP) drives are failing because of excess heat. Certainly it's true that using the drive less would be one way of keeping it cooler over its total life, allowing for greater reliability.

Also of note is that IBM has never emphasized this 333 hour-per-month usage rate before on any of its products. While the specification exists in the technical literature for the 120, 75, and 60 GXP drives, websites reviewing these drives for months have recommended them for placement in low-end servers. IBM's own press releases have targeted the drives for these areas as well. It's extremely odd that a company would both encourage websites to review its drives in a low-end server environment, target them into that market, and then suddenly pull an about-face and claim the drives should not be used in such arenas.

One argument used to support the idea that the 333 hours-per-month is merely a liability trick is that companies like VIA ship their C3 processors with a heatsink and fan, yet publicly demonstrate the chip running with only a heatsink and are known to encourage the use of the processor in such a configuration.

The problem with this argument, however, is that VIA doesn't state that the chip can only be used for a fraction of its original time OR at a fraction of its original speed in exchange for removing the fan. By stating that the drive should only be powered for 333 hours per month, IBM is limiting usage to about eleven hours per day. In other words, VIA sells the chip with a heatsink and fan, but also deploys it in a heatsink-only configuration with no loss of performance. The fan may be there, but only for liability reasons.

By stating that their drives should only be used for eleven hours per day, IBM is drastically limiting the performance of the drive (as compared to its competitors) as well as its appearance in the market. The ability of the VIA chips to run with less cooling than expected is a tremendous positive--but for IBM drives to be perceived as only recommended for eleven hours a day when their competitors make no such recommendations about their own product is a tremendous negative. The argument that the two situations are comparable, therefore, is false. One company is demonstrating a product that exceeds market expectations, while the other is demonstrating a product that fails to meet them.

Part of the confusion regarding this situation could be resolved if IBM would clarify whether the 333 hours-per-month stipulation referred to hours the drive was powered on, or hours the drive was engaged in reading/writing. Once again, however, the company has not deigned to comment on the situation.

Has IBM properly disclosed the operating conditions of the GXP line of drives?

The one comment I DID get from IBM when I brought up the 333 hours-per-month operating time restriction on the 120GXP is that this stipulation has, in fact, been present on ALL of the GXP lines. We investigated their claim and found the following:

*

The restriction is not noted on any of the GXP drives itself.
*

No documentation was included that mentioned this monthly restriction to purchasers of the GXP line at either the consumer or business level.
*

No information mentioning the GXP's recommended hourly rate is discussed in any press release related to any GXP product. Furthermore, the drives are expressly and explicitly targeted to high-end enterprise buyers.
*

No data about the restriction is present on IBM's Deskstar homepage.
*

There IS, in fact, information about the various restrictions present on the specific pages for the drives themselves, but the information is in different places for each drive.
*

For the 120GXP, the restriction is noted in the two-page "Data Sheet and Specification" document under the "Reliability" section.
*

Neither the 75GXP nor the 60GXP have the 333 hour-per-month specification mentioned in their own versions of that document, however. The 60GXP lists this setting only in its "Functional Specifications" document--a hefty 195 page engineering-level PDF. The specification in question is located 'prominently' on page 50 in a relatively small section. The 75GXP, on the other hand, does not have a "Functional Specification" link and does not mention the limitation on its data sheet either. I was unable, in fact, to even FIND mention of such a limitation for this particular model.

So, we're left with the following situation: A limitation IBM claims is specified on all three drives isn't mentioned in the shipping documentation, on the drive itself, or in any press release. The specification, in fact, is mentioned only in three different places on three different websites, and is only easily found on one. Furthermore, the limitation in question is placed on drives IBM markets as being "enterprise solutions", suitable for high-end workstation use for multimedia and graphics presentations. Its not as if these are IBM's budget line of drives, after all--these drives are (theoretically) the top of the line models.

This does not strike me as proper disclosure of a drive limitation. Even if the drive limitation stretches beyond the IBM Deskstar line and into its competitor's products as well, the company has essentially switched performance metrics without informing anyone of the change.

The best example of a proper metric-switch is AMD's recent decision to use model numbers instead of MHz. When they made the change, AMD highly publicized it and openly disclosed their measurement data, their specifications, and the reasons for the metric switch. Whether people agreed or disagreed with it, the quantifiable data was laid on the table for examination.

In this case, even if IBM were to argue that other IDE hard drives from other manufacturers suffer from the same limitations; their failure to explain and discuss this new "hours per month" metric has drastically hurt their drive's perception in the market.

This situation actually reminds me from a scene in the popular book "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" where Arthur Dent (who's house is about to be destroyed) questions a public official about when the plans to destroy it were made and how he was informed. The following quote illustrates the situation quite well:

"But Mr. Dent, the plans have been available [and on display] in the local planning office for the last nine months."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a flashlight."

"Ah, well, the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard."

Sound familiar?

Every bit of hardware I buy.. (0, Troll)

tom_newton (179430) | more than 12 years ago | (#3180974)

is found to suffer one of the following about 3 days later:

"Is a complete ballache to use under linux"

"Has the life expectancy of a bunny in the crocodile enclosure"

"Starts house fires. On purpose."

And yes, I did buy a deskstar, but it got nicked within a month so who knows how it's doing?!?

Good deal (2)

man_ls (248470) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181011)

I'm going to get my hands on two dead but RMA'able 75GXPs...the 45gig models, for the cost of shipping them to my house. Both are replaceable under IBM's warrenty, I don't exactly trust it though...

I'm probably going to run them in RAID 1 (Mirroring?) I think off of my KT7-RAID. That way....well...They'll both fail, just hopefully not at the same time.

Re:Good deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181082)

Don't count on it - my two 75GXP's (45Gb) both died at the same time although I was running raid0. They were just over one year old which meant I couldn't get my money back - instead they've gone off to IBM.

I may just buy new drives though. Seems to me that drives that are likely to fail in less than a year are about as useful as a chocolate umberalla.

WD (2)

crumbz (41803) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181015)

I have used WD drives for about 5 years now and their higher-end EIDE and SCSI have been great workhorses for us.
A shame for IBM. Their hardware used to be top-notch in quality. Period. I guess that leaves HP....

Re:WD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181064)

I've been prejudiced against WD since the days of the notorious 3GB WDC (I think it was 3 anyway)... Maybe it's about time I got over it.

WD's no better... (2)

Svartalf (2997) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181069)

For a while, they were playing fast and loose with the UDMA spec and produced a line of drives that weren't safe for UDMA use- they'd work, but a lot of them would corrupt data if you operated them in UDMA mode.

Re:WD (1)

fdragon (138768) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181095)

I don't know about HP lately. I have a large quantity of the HP LP1000R 1U rack mount boxes (nicely behaved most of the time), and I noticed the switched from rebranded Seagate drives that have never given us problems to rebranded IBM drives.

We noticed this *AFTER* an entire cluster went down due to the IBM drives all failing at the same time. Yes I know these drives are their 18GB SCSI drives, but makes you wonder if what affects the IDE drive line effects the SCSI line as well.

Check out Storage Review as well (1)

MeepMeep (111932) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181022)

They have some pretty interesting information from an unnamed IBM source...

http://www.storagereview.com

Even 333hr per month is pushing it (5, Interesting)

fallacy (302261) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181030)

I'm finding this story rather spooky as my 75GXP failed on me (ironically in the middle of my first real backup) yesterday after 18 months of "average" use (less than 6 hours a day). I use the IBM drive as my main system drive, and keep a 5GB for data backups "now and again".

I bought the drive way back in October 2000 with the confidence that "it's an IBM drive: these things are not only fast, but are meant to be reliable". When I started to see the horror stories of other peoples' drives failing I felt quite lucky (read: smug) that mine was still going strong. Now I realise how stupid I look: that whiz, whir, crunch, grind noise that I heard yesterday from the disk *above* the sound of my rather noisy fans scared the life out of me.

I'm now faced with the nasty task of not only attempting to salvage what data I can before I send it to IBM (yes, as other people have mentioned, at least IBM provide a fairly decent 3 year warranty), but also shudder in anticipation at what IBM decide to do with my drive. I believe there are 3 options:
1. Attempt to "fix" my drive and send it back (although having the "Drive Fitness Test" return "Defective Disk" should quash this option). That means I'm stuck with the same drive which is most likely to fail on me again sometime in the (not-too-distant) future.
2. Replace my drive with the same spec, from the same product line & production factory. Again, this worries me as I'm probably ending up with a new disk which has the same defects and thus is also going to die on me.
3. Replace my drive with a newer product with an equivalent spec. Yesterday I was hoping for this option. However, having read the ViaHardware article, this doesn't hold much hope for me either.

And that's the crux: it's alright having the drive under warranty & returning it, but who's to say that any drive they replace it with is not as faulty?

This whole fiasco with the GXP line has certainly put me off IBM drives, no matter how fast and "great" they may be. Shame.

First example of hardnagware? (2, Funny)

schwatoo (521485) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181034)

"Unless you pay your shareware fee this harddrive will stop working after 333 hours."

affects everyone (1)

vukv (550649) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181040)

I as a poweruser dont turn off my pc ever... ever... and ever... so do many other users who use Linux or Win2k/XP... what should we do? Turn it off? What about business users? No overtime ;-)...

there are so many examples in which these IBM drives should not be used that it makes them essentially useless.. hard drive failures are not something anyone would want to mess around with so in future I will just make sure that whatever I buy does not have IBM drive in it

Thank you /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181046)

I was in the market for a new HD, I knew that certain models of IBM ATA drives were flaky, I was still looking for a DeskStar though, now that has changed. I'll go for the Maxtor.
How about IBM's microdrive? Is that any good?

Ah, yes. (1)

s4m7 (519684) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181052)

I recall about a year to two ago, when the 75GXP line was unveiled, reading a review of it and the 60 in one of the two linux mags i read(LM & LJ).

I'm at work right now and don't have a copy on hand, but I do recall the article saying that the drives were too expensive, and if you considered the average life span of a drive you would be better off both financially and reliability-wise buying two cheaper 30-giggers.

The reviewer had decided that just judging by the size of the drives, you were taking your data into your own hands on the GXP line. It turns out he (or she) was far more on the money than they ever knew.

is it me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181054)

or has anyone else noticed all the Visual Studio .NET banners popping up on slashdot?

http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/N1942.OSDNSlashDot/ B9 45236;sz=468x60;ord=101646648101646648

have this active on my screen right now..

slashdot == hypocritical?
return true; ?

cheap != quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181068)

You want quality, service and accountablility? Guess what, don't buy cheap stuff and bitch. That's one reason I buy high end parts when I know it has to be totally reliable.

hard drive superstition (5, Insightful)

Corgha (60478) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181071)

from the article:
While large numbers of readers responded to the questions I posed regarding drive reliability, their emails present very different pictures. Some of you swear by IBM drives and their reliability, while listing many of the Seagate, Maxtor, or WD drives you've seen fail in both a corporate and a consumer setting, while other readers had horror stories of seeing IBM drive after IBM drive bite the dust.

On the general topic of hard drive reliability, I've noticed a similar trend -- every sysadmin to whom I speak seems to have a poorly-founded personal hatred for one hard drive manufacturer. Sure, I admit, having a hard drive fail on you really sucks (esp. if you've been lazy with backups and don't have RAID).

What's weird about this is that people who are otherwise rational will take a single experience with a bad drive and use it to justify an opinion that all drives from that manufacturer are unreliable. It reminds me of D&D players who will, after rolling a d20 four or five times, decide that it "rolls high."

Here's the deal: hard drives fail. Get over it and design your systems such that your important data isn't relying on a single hard drive. In fact, two of my hard drives (a Quantum and an IBM) are slowly failing on me right now. Before that, the last one was a Seagate.

Now, I will admit that there must be some models from some manufacturers which are more prone to failure, just as there are probably some d20s which are prone to "roll high." Perhaps some manufacturers tend to make more reliable drives than others. However, in all the times I have heard someone bitch about a hard drive manufacturer, not once has someone referred to a study that did a statistically sound comparison of drives (I'm not sure that one even exists that compares, over time, all the various models of the manufacturers). It's always "Seagate sucks! A Seagate drive failed on me once, and I had to do a bare-metal recovery."

Of course, in this case, lots of people have reported problems with this drive, so it's a little different. If, sometime in the near future, someone tells me not to buy a cheap-ass OEM IBM IDE drive to use in a critical server, saying "remember the 120GXP?", I'll probably listen to them. However, based on my limited anecdotal evidence, I doubt that will happen :)

</rant>

Good idea: HD Cooling (5, Interesting)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181078)

Bad idea: Letting your drive melt.

I had problems with my 40GB Quantum AS (bad sectors, spinning down and refusing to speak to anything); I noticed it was getting rather hot (bare in mind this is in a well ventilated case at the bottom of the 3.5" mounting bays with plenty of space above it) and wondered if this had anything to do with it.

So I mounted a card cooler [thecardcooler.com] I had spare, put it on top of a small speaker just outside the case (I leave the side open) and had it blow over the system.

The result? CPU temp dropped a good 6c (43c fully loaded for a 1GHz Athlon clocked to 1.2GHz, compared with ~50 before) and now both my drives (Quantum Fireball 20GB and Quantum Fireball AS 40GB) are cool to the touch. There's been absolutely no sign of any problems with the drive since either.

Re:Good idea: HD Cooling (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181167)

Maybe the fact that you leave the side open had more to do with the innards getting hot? It doesn't help if you have ventilation and fans, if the case is open, since that decreases the forced air action that you get with a closed case.

Or at least that's what I'd always heard.

HDD (GXP Style) Problem ... tell me this: (1)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181087)

I have 2 x Maxtor 40 GB 7200 RPM drives, and on shutdown (from Win2k or Linux) each drive makes one audible click. (They are closer together when shutting down from Linux.) I have been told that this is normal and it's just the sound of the heads moving into the 'parked' position. They don't make clicking or hissing noises on startup, reboot or normal operation.

Should I believe this or may I be on the road to IBM-GXP style hell?

I'm confused by it all... (2)

tkrotchko (124118) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181088)

IBM is claiming in some places its unsuited for server use because a restriction of 333 hours per month of use.

But I haven't turned my PC off in over a year (does anyone do that anymore?). Does that make it a server, or simply just a normal use?

Seriously, for those of you with broadband, don't you keep your PC on all the time? Why would you shut it off?

This is sad... (5, Funny)

fmaxwell (249001) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181089)

How will people use their 1,000 free hours of AOL in 45 days if their hard drive, and hence their PC, can only be on 333 hours per month?

I've got two IBM drives and they work Ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181094)

I have a 30GB 75GXP one at home that's been working for 2 years, powered 24/7 (the machine is on to answer faxes in NT4.0, but the Bios is set to spin down the drive).

I've got a 40 GB 60GXP at work that's been working for about 6 months, though not too heavily, and both of them seem to work ok (I run DFT on them when I heard about this and it couldn't find any errors).

MTBF vs. 333 hrs/month? Is heat the problem? (1)

T5 (308759) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181100)

Non sequitur. How does one reconcile their MTBF claims against this restriction of 333 hours/month?

That being said, I've installed about 25 of the 75GXP and 60GXP drives with only one failure. The difference in this case, a dead 40GB 60GXP, is that the cooling for this drive was far less than for the other two dozen or so, and the resulting heat buildup was significantly greater (>30 degrees F higher) There have been claims around the net that heat is the culprit here, specifically overheating of the largest ASIC on the controller board. I tend to agree with this statement, as my still-working drives are in heavily used workstations and servers, with positive external ventilation blowing around these drives.

My advice to owners of these drives: keep them cool and back them up often.

Drive Temperature (5, Interesting)

frozenray (308282) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181105)

Tip: Check if the drive temperature is not exceeding the specified limits with something like this tool [peterlink.ru] . Many case designs do not provide sufficient ventilation for 7'200 RPM drives, especially if they're mounted closely together. Use a HD cooler if the disks get too warm, it's still less expensive than reconstructing data and/or reinstalling.

Irony: big ad from IBM on my page of the "IBM 120GXP Revisited" article, saying "Time to update your critical systems security!". Yes, indeed 8-)

ISO9000 and IBM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3181114)

There's something I don't understand here. IBM's an ISO9000 certified company. That means they have to document every bug, alledged or otherwise, against any of their products. This is so they can prove that their products do in fact meet the quality standards that are claimed.

If IBM hasn't been sharing this data with the public, then who exactly is supposed to see this?

There's something funny going on. Maybe Underwriter Labs will be the next Arthur Anderson.

Great quote (2, Interesting)

vohlish_n (261634) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181125)

on IBM's web site:
  • http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/prod/deskstar.htm
"...delivers Non-stop leadership..."

Repair Depot Comments (5, Informative)

lazarus (2879) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181134)

Late last year when it was Quantum Fireball drives that were dropping like flies in our office I got on the phone with a drive repair center in Canada. We were going through the "How much will it cost us to actually retrieve the data from these drives?" discussion and I thought to ask him what brand of drives he sees the *least*.

"SCSI" was his response. "Oh sure," he said "there are fewer of them out there -- but we hardly see any at all."

One of the other interesting things he told me is that the drives included in Quantum's Snap Server appliances, despite being IDE, are *NOT* drives you can buy off the shelf. And he hasn't gotten in a single Snap Server drive in the two years they had been selling them.

I switched from Quantum to IBM drives at the time (ugh!) but had the forsight to put them all in a RAID-1 configuration. We've sent three DeathStars back for repair so far. The good news? IBM had replacements to us in under a week.

I recently switched from IBMs to Maxtor (making sure I wasn't buying Quantum's old stock) and have already had one of their 80Gb drives fail. For the record they are not as responsive as IBM in the RMA department.

So what's the answer folks? You get what you pay for. If you care about your data buy an Adaptec 1200A RAID-1 controller and two drives, or spend the money on a SCSI controller and SCSI drives. So far I haven't found any IDE drive vendors that can sell you a reliable drive (I have dead fujitsu drives around here as well, but must admit that I still haven't tried Western Digital.)

Suggestions? (2)

suwain_2 (260792) | more than 12 years ago | (#3181171)

Until I saw this, I had, for some reason, been under the impression that IBM drives were the most reliable IDE drives around...

Which leads me to wonder... What IDE drives *are* good?
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