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Larsen Ice Shelf Collapses

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the bigger-than-luxembourg dept.

Science 1250

Cally writes in: "The BBC reports that the Larsen B Ice Shelf in Antarctica, a 200m thick ice floe covering 3,250 sq km, has disintegrated. This is terrible news. The widely respected British Antarctic Survey are quoted as saying "We knew what was left would collapse eventually, but the speed of it is staggering[...] [It is hard] to believe that 500 billion tonnes of ice sheet has disintegrated in less than a month." As a Greenpeace member who's been following the debate for over a decade, it's hard not to feel aggrieved at those with their own agenda who have pushed the theory that global climate change isn't happening. Risk = probability x consequence..." The big iceberg is a separate event.

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first? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186301)

oh the love of first posts.

Melted Ice (0)

zairius (54221) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186302)

We need some up here in Maine! Bad drought.

Oh my goodness no! (0, Insightful)

rosewood (99925) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186303)

You mean - Ice Melts cause the sun is hot? Im gonna have to jump on the side of the facts that say "global warming is bullshit" just like those before me in the 70s said global cooling was bullshit. Id like to dedicate this thread to the brave souls who stopped and realized that 2+2!=5 in the global warming bad science debate. In their memory and honor, post good links that show that global warming is about as real as my chance to score.

For those that disagree, please tell me im a mo-ron, but lets see your URLs as well

Re:Oh my goodness no! (3, Insightful)

Diamon (13013) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186316)

Umm... so where is your linkage?

Not saying I'm on any side. It's just if you're gonna play URL poker you gotta ante up.

Re:Oh my goodness no! (2, Interesting)

Scratch-O-Matic (245992) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186362)

Rather than a link, I'll just post a quote from the BBC article linked above:

However, the picture generally in Antarctica is a complicated one with temperatures in the interior actually falling over the same period.

Re:Oh my goodness no! (0, Troll)

yzquxnet (133355) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186371)

Just curious, don't have any links, but did this occur during the period of the year where the southern pole has it most exposure to sunlight. I think that is occurring right now.

If so, Sunlight causes ice to melt and sublimate which would cause deterioration. So the sun mau have a hige impact on this area that may have been ignored or _cleverly forgotten_ to make a point.

Re:Oh my goodness no! (5, Informative)

general_re (8883) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186401)

I'm in, then.

John Daly's massive clearinghouse, Still Waiting for Greenhouse [vision.net.au]
An article [cato.org] by MIT meteorology professor Richard Lindzen.

There's lots more, but others might want to play.

The only tragedy is... (-1, Troll)

CmdrTaco on (468152) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186329)

... that millions of muslims were not standing on the ice shelf. :(

Re:The only tragedy is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186462)

...or that it wasn't the north american continent that disintegrated

Re:Oh my goodness no! (3, Insightful)

Bartmoss (16109) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186372)

Blasting massive amounts of pollution into the atmosphere seems like a very bad idea nevertheless. Remember acid rain? Smog? I do, even though I haven't been in a smog filled city for decades. It's not only about saving the environment for the sake of saving the environment. It's a quality of life question.

Re:Oh my goodness no! (1)

FXSTD (468083) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186404)

Everytime one of those volcanoes blasts "massive amounts of pollution into the atmosphere" I get really steamed, what right does the Earth have to pollute itself like that!

Re:Oh my goodness no! (1)

xonos (218227) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186417)

just because volcanoes add pollution into the atmosphere, that doesn't mean it's ok for humans to add to it...

Re:Oh my goodness no! (1, Flamebait)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186419)

I remember reading a study that said that when a volcano blasts that crap it launches as much CO2 into the air as the ENTIRE human race does in 50 years..

Re:Oh my goodness no! (1)

Pussy Is Money (527357) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186428)

There's rather a big difference between a volcano 4000 miles away and a firecracker in your hand.

Re:Oh my goodness no! (4, Informative)

Denito (196701) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186394)

Your post is typical of the 'skepticism by convience' found so often in this debate..

Here are some resources:

BBC Report [bbc.co.uk]

EPA website on global warming [epa.gov]

Union of concerned scientists. [ucsusa.org]

btw, you forgot to post your evidence.. (typical skeptic evidence: We don't know for 10000000000% sure, so this must be environmentalist propoganda"

-D

p.s. Ok, I'll say It. You, are a mo-ron.

Re:Oh my goodness no! (2)

iceT (68610) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186447)

Nice BBC chart...

and I bet that if you followed that curve all the way back/down, you'd find a ice-age at the beginning of it...

I don't dispute the EVIDENCE that the world is getting warmer.

What I am NOT convinced of is that it's not exactly what's supposed to happen.

We STILL don't know EXACTLY what happened to the dinosaurs. Could it be possible that this thermal cycle is NORMAL for this planet in that, like a person with a virus, their tempurature rises to try to rid itself of the virus?

Who ever said it's SUPPOSED to last forever?

Re:Oh my goodness no! (1)

eMago (267564) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186405)

It is nearly sure that there IS a rapid and big climate change. Here are "some" (a lot of) reports [www.ipcc.ch] (IPCC). A basic overview [unfccc.int] (UN-FCCC) and much more... Although there have been a lot of climate changes in the past, it is very likely that mankind is responsible for a great amount of this one. Denying the facts is putting your head into the sand. Although a lot of "environmentalists" exaggerate, the biosphere has no unlimited selfregulating capacities. Think about it when driving around in your sportscar just for fun.

Re:Oh my goodness no! (-1)

neal n bob (531011) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186448)

you're an idiot. There are absolutely no reliable measurements of local temperatures around the world before the beginning of this century. Hell, there are currently still no reliable measures of the global temperature - including the oceans, etc. The fact is, we are doing a good thing by terraforming the earth. The newly evolved people of the future will not have to worry about icebergs or snowy roads. Years from now they will be thanking us. Now excuse me, I have to go drive my SUV to work.

Re:Oh my goodness no! (0)

mr breakfast (242421) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186410)

Global warming may exist or it may not- if it does it may cause the loss of much low-lying ground and the disappearance of various small nations or it may just stave off the next ice age by a few years. The system is just too complex for us to be sure what will happen or how.

The one thing we cannot afford is complancency. Even if global warming does not prove to be the problem that the majority of nations [lycos.com] and climate scientists [epa.gov] appear to believe it is likely to be, the system is just too complex for us to be sure. We are, to quote a lame sci-fi cliche, meddling with powers we cannot hope to comprehend.

Measures to reduce pollution in order to avoid global warming are still measures to reduce pollution and that has to be a good thing.

No Flames Please!!!!! (2, Funny)

NeoTron (6020) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186425)

...It'll warm up the ice ;)

Re:Oh my goodness no! (0)

Henry_Doors (472185) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186458)

Couldn't be bothered to post any links of your own though? Maybe you could share some of your 'facts' with us so we could have an intelligent debate?

Both the UK Environment Agency
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/yourenv/ind ic ators/NaturalForces/s1-1_surfacetemp/?lang=_e&regi on=

and the EPA http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming/climate/trends/in dex.html

reckon the world is getting warmer or do you think they are lying?

Re:Oh my goodness no! (2)

SubtleNuance (184325) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186469)

Id like to dedicate this thread for people who's doubt about the effects of pollution are not tied to politics (or adherence to laisse-fair capitalism as religion (also known as McCarthy-ite fear of government (but thats another topic))).

So, if we like to play link-o-rama (of which you have none) please, I ask everyone to start with this primer on climate change and Carbon Monoxide. [iastate.edu] . Of particular interest is this graph. [grida.no]

I find the poster in the thread-head's of trying to support blind-rhetoric with a toddler-like argument of "nah-nah you cant convince me" tactic of "deny deny deny" -- simply to give a support to the other ostriches amongst us -- a bit pathetic. Before you make / listen to the logic or arguments, you cannot raise your hand and say "i dont agree" only to offer opportunity and solace to others who refuse to listen. Truly sad. Do you really expect to be taken seriously in a debate of this importance? Do you expect logical, thinking, reasonable adults to want to engage you in this debate? Based on your comment, Id first argue you are not qualified to consider the situation (due to your display of "nah-nah-nah" debate method).

Whoops.... (0)

Arimus (198136) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186304)

Wonder how much longer it will be before those living in low-land areas will need to think about wearing a diving suit to get to work.

Hopefully maybe (but probably not) certain companies and gov'ts might start daring to think about cutting back on pollution while we still have a chance of doing something about it - or we'd better find another planet we can screw up before ours evicts us...

Re:Whoops.... (5, Informative)

jonr (1130) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186319)

If you would have read the friggin article instead of hurry up karma-whoring, you would have noticed that only melting land-based ice causes increase in sea level. Melting floating ice does not increase the level.
You figure out why. :

Re:Whoops.... (1)

Arimus (198136) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186345)

Yes -- but how long before the land based ice starts to melt?

Re:Whoops.... (1)

iamplasma (189832) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186407)

Yeah, but increased temperatures will also cause water to expand, which doesn't help water levels either (though exactly how much I'm not sure).

Duhh (2, Insightful)

Scratch-O-Matic (245992) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186367)

certain companies and gov'ts might start daring to think about cutting back on pollution

This is already happening, and has been for years. Although things may not be to your liking, there have been vast improvements in policy and technology.

500 Billion Tonnes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186306)

The article said 500 Billion Tonnes. Lets not start overreacting and and a couple orders of magnitude.

Re:500 Billion Tonnes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186339)

English Billion=American Million Billion

Re:500 Billion Tonnes (1)

spooky ghost (70606) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186403)

I'm sure the article means billion as 10^9 not 10^12. 10^12 stopped being used quite some time ago.

Oh, it's the year 2002? (2, Funny)

gazbo (517111) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186311)

In that case, we'll destroy 500 million billion tonnes!

Re:Oh, it's the year 2002? (1)

gazbo (517111) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186321)

D'oh! I will use entity references, I will use entity references...

There was supposed to be a </DrEvil> after that.

Re:Oh, it's the year 2002? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186467)

I will slowly disintegrate the Larsen Ice Shelf with my device, which I shall call a "la-ser" and hold the world for ransom for 1 million dollars!

The earth changes.. (3, Insightful)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186314)

Get over it. The earth will change if we do anything or not. In fact what most enviromentalists want is for it to stay exactly the same and never change, or so it seems. They don't want species to die, yet they do on their own even when we leave them totally alone, the want the climate to stay the same, yet that changes to if we were using our cars and factories or not.

Would it happen as fast? Probably not, but the fact is that the earth will change if we do anything or not.

Re:The earth changes.. (3, Insightful)

sql*kitten (1359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186349)

The earth will change if we do anything or not. In fact what most enviromentalists want is for it to stay exactly the same and never change, or so it seems. They don't want species to die, yet they do on their own even when we leave them totally alone, the want the climate to stay the same, yet that changes to if we were using our cars and factories or not.

You are correct. Geological changes take place on timescales in which a thousand years is insignificant. Don't forget that maybe 30 or 40 years ago, the thing that had environmentalists worried was global cooling - the risk of a new Ice Age. I remember reading somewhere that 2001 was the warmest year since 1653 (or thereabouts) which begs the question, exactly who or what was emitting CO2 at present day levels back then?

For more of this sort of common sense, see this book [amazon.co.uk] in which the author systematically demolishes most of the non-scientific arguments of the "green" lobby.

These days, Greenpeace aren't a charity or a lobby in any meaningful sense of the word. They are in the entertainment business for Western teenagers, and they have to keep their name in the news to keep the donations rolling in. Cynical? Perhaps. But their dodgy science has done a lot of harm to the idea that anyone with something to say on the environment doesn't have a radical left-wing axe to grind.

Re:The earth changes.. (3, Insightful)

gowen (141411) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186445)

For more of this sort of common sense, see this book [amazon.co.uk] in which the author systematically demolishes most of the non-scientific arguments of the "green" lobby.
And while you're at it, why not read this book [amazon.com] , which "comprehensively debunks" evolution. Even you admit Lomborg can't debunk the scientific arguments of climatologists and climate modellers, any more than creationists can do anything about radio-carbon-dating than close their ears and say "Don't believe you."

As has been gone over in almost tedious [gristmagazine.com] detail, practically everyone with any experience, gathered in, amongst other places, a dedicated issue of Scientific American disagree with Lomborg. Contrary to Lomborg's assertions, very few of these attacks are ad hominem, and take issue only with his application of the scientific method, and selective, self-serving use of statistics.

Re:The earth changes.. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186350)

People will die whether we help them or not. Therefore we might as well not help people by providing food to the starving or medical aid to the sick or injured.

Would people die as fast if we helped them? Probably not, but the fact is that people will die if we do anything or not.

Good one! (2)

Juju (1688) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186381)

I wish I still had a few mod points... :o(
And I am sure people who live at sea level won't mind living underwater...

Re:The earth changes.. (2, Insightful)

Vermithrax (524934) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186376)

Yes the Earth will change, but surely anyone with even half a brain can see that it is in our interest for it to change as little as possible. large ammounts of plains land becoming desert. will cause further migration of population, reductions in water supply, wars, famines. These are not small things. The further we push the environment the bigger these changes are going to be.

Re:The earth changes.. (4, Insightful)

TheGreenLantern (537864) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186387)

Yeah, and it will continue to change when the Earth has a climate that more closely resembles Venus than it does now.

What the hell kind of logic is this? "I'm going to beat my kid and call him a psychopath every day, and when he grows up to become a psychopath; well, kid's change, there's nothing I could have done about it".

We are abusing the fuck out of this planet, and anyone who can't see that is either stupid or naive.

Re:The earth changes.. (3, Insightful)

th3rd (238782) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186411)

Sorry, but as one of said "environmentalists", I feel compelled to set you straight here. The earth and it's systems do change; on this point you are right. But the change that occurs is nearly always slow and balanced. Balance is a key word for the environment, because what we see in events like this ice melt is the result of imbalance. The natural systems of the earth are very complex. I think that actually you are wrong about what "most environmentalists want". What they want is to keep these systems balanced for a little longer in an attempt to understand the way they work, and perhaps to devise ways of living that allow the balance to continue.

I suggest that, if the future of the earth and human existance on it is at all important to you, you take this into consideration when you next start to slander environmentalists or others with strong views.

Apologies for the tangent, but I couldnt let this one go.

Uh-oh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186322)

GWAR [gwar.net] is going to be pissed!

That's capitalism and right-wingers for you... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186324)

The bloody bastards. I'll bet they're all bible-thumping Christian fundamentalists too.

Re:That's capitalism and right-wingers for you... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186347)

And don't forget they all hate blacks and gays. Any black or gay people who are not Democrats are
sellouts against their own people.

If global warming was real... (1, Troll)

Brian Stretch (5304) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186330)

...the Kyoto treaty wouldn't have exempted China, India, Brazil, and every other third world nation with major and growing pollution problems.

And there wouldn't be so much technophobic fear of nuclear power, which is our best shot at non-atmospheric-polluting power generation by far.

Re:If global warming was real... (2)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186360)

That's one point that's interesting.. The US as a whole probably has the cleanest vehicals around. God, we have enough regulations and stuff. Sure we have gas hogging SUVs, but they have all kinds of emmisions and we have states that have gas with MTBE in it (that stuff is so bad if it gets into the water, they're trying to ban it). But you look at stuff on discovery channel or whatever going to all these third world countries and they're driving these cars that just have black nasty ass smoke flying out of them, they have no emmisions control.. one of those cars must put out as much pollution at 10 or so of the US's automobiles.

Re:If global warming was real... (2, Flamebait)

psavo (162634) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186393)

Well. Yes.
The problem is that US has something like 500:1 vehicles comared to thos poorer countries.
And US' steel industry (single most pollutive in terms of C2O) is badly b0rked. And Bush' goverment just went on to support it.

And in Finland our goverment has insane (like 150%) taxes on new vehicles, so most (75%) people drive in damn non-catalyzator cars, polluting just more.

Re:If global warming was real... (2, Interesting)

-brazil- (111867) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186421)

Yeah, but the point is that in those countries perhaps one out of 5000 people has a car, while the US has probably more cars than people. Fact is, the US is the world's biggest polluter and energy waster by a LARGE margin.

Well, no (2)

Goonie (8651) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186456)

In terms of smog-causing, carcinogenic nasties etc, that's reasonably accurate - though Europe, Japan, Australia etc. are pretty much up with you (the same cars produce the same emissions whether they're in New York or New South Wales).

Where you're completely wrong is with regards to carbon dioxide emissions, the primary vehicular contributor to global warming. CO2 emissions are directly proportional to fuel consumption (no pollution control gear can make the CO2 go away), and the US market chooses larger and thirstier vehicles than every other significant market. No matter how much emissions gear you have on your Chevy Suburban, it's still a fuel-sucking greenhouse gas factory.

Amen to that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186363)


I'm glad somebody pointed it out.
Thank you.

Re:If global warming was real... (2)

e_lehman (143896) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186370)

I agree with you on nuclear power. But the US outputs eight times the CO2 per capita versus China. Furthermore, Chinese CO2 production is falling while US production is growing.

Re:If global warming was real... (2)

general_re (8883) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186466)

But the US outputs eight times the CO2 per capita versus China.

Yeah, that sounds bad, until you realize that the per capita GDP of the US is ten times the per capita GDP of China. So if we produce ten times more stuff, but only eight times as much CO2, it really sounds to me like we are remarkably efficient when compared to the Chinese.

Re:If global warming was real... (2)

sql*kitten (1359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186373)

...the Kyoto treaty wouldn't have exempted China, India, Brazil, and every other third world nation with major and growing pollution problems.

Absolutely. Kyoto is flawed because it is based on present-pollution levels, not delta-p (the rate of increase of pollution). The Western nations emit a lot of CO2, but are addressing this, slowly but surely. Nations like China, India and Brazil don't emit as much CO2 right now but their rate of increase is much higher.

If the Kyoto treaty is to be meaningful it must bind every industrialized nation, otherwise it will merely encourage "pollution arbitrage" - i.e. moving polluting industries offshore to exempt nations.

And there wouldn't be so much technophobic fear of nuclear power, which is our best shot at non-atmospheric-polluting power generation by far.

OK, serious question. Uranium is a mineral, it's found in the Earth. It's naturally occuring. And when it is used in a reactor, it's still uranium afterwards. Why is burying it back in the ground from whence it came a problem? (At least until our space-launch tech is mature enough that it can be dropped into the sun at negligible risk).

Re:If global warming was real... (1)

-brazil- (111867) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186455)

serious question. Uranium is a mineral, it's found in the Earth. It's naturally occuring. And when it is used in a reactor, it's still
uranium afterwards.


Um, no. Those are fission reactors, remember? The uranium is turned into other elements that are far more radioactive.


Why is burying it back in the ground from whence it came a problem?


A lot of the most nasty toxic substances are also naturally occurring, so what's the problem with just dumping them somewhere?

Re:If global warming was real... (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186460)

Some nuclear reactions actually create more radioactive materials, or more dangerous ones. Nuclear reactions aren't zero sum danger-wise. Remember we are busting up nuclei and making new elements.

Re: If global warming was real... (1)

l0wland (463243) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186384)

...the Kyoto treaty wouldn't have exempted China, India, Brazil, and every other third world nation with major and growing pollution problems.

OK, these are the 3rd world countries. Which western countries should be added to this list, being responisible for an even bigger part in the world's pollution ?

The Earth's temperature has ALWAYS fluctuated. (5, Insightful)

pcx (72024) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186337)

The Earth's temperature has ALWAYS fluctuated -- massively. Only in the past thousand years or so has the temperature leveled out at a rather warm plateau. But if you look at a statistical chart of the earth's history over the past few million years you'll see wide temperature swings that have absolutely nothing at all to do with humanities actions or inaction.

I know it's nice to think we've become so powerful we can disintigrate millions of billions of tons of ice just by driving to the quick-e-mart, but in reality it's probably nothing more than the sun outputting a little more energy than normal.

Re:The Earth's temperature has ALWAYS fluctuated. (2)

psavo (162634) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186368)

Yeah, of course you're absolutely right. The problem seems to be that we should be entering another ice-age any day now ;), but it just doesn't look like it.

Re:The Earth's temperature has ALWAYS fluctuated. (1)

girouette (309616) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186375)

Here's a guy caught with a pick-axe in a submarine:
"Boats have ALWAYS sprung up leaks -- massively!"

Re:The Earth's temperature has ALWAYS fluctuated. (1)

-brazil- (111867) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186377)

Unfortunately, the fluctuation we're seeing now is more massive and happening more quickly than ever before... Is it really that smart to bet on "Oh well, it's probably not our fault" in the face of such catastrophic consequences?

fa! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186340)

The Earth is dying. This is terrible. Bullshit.

Nothing small (1)

mnordstr (472213) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186341)

US scientists also reported on Tuesday that an iceberg more than nine times larger than Singapore had broken off Antarctica.

It is more than 64 kilometers (40 miles) wide and 85 kilometers (53 miles) long, and covers an area of about 5,500 square kilometers.


Now that's a big pile of ice!

Well, if the world's going to be destroyed... (3, Funny)

laetus (45131) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186342)

let's break out the Tequila and margarita mix!

That's a lot of ice we've got to down!

:)

That's a lot of ice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186352)

>> 500 million billion tonnes of ice

Now... how much Scotch would it take to use all that?

Re:That's a lot of ice (0)

The_Fire_Horse (552422) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186437)

umm, about the amount I drank last night, judging by my hangover :(

I wouldn't tak eGreenpeace's word for it. (5, Insightful)

91degrees (207121) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186354)

A PR comapny if ever there was onr. Greenpeace's only motivation is the continuation of itself.

A few years ago they created a huge amountof havoc over plans to decommision an oil platform. They cited the huge environmental damage caused by the radioactivity, without actually considering that this was natural radioactivity. The net result of the media misinformation was that the platform had to be dismantled at great cost, and actually caused considerably more pollution, and took up a great deal of landfill spcae when otherwise it would have served as a habitat for lots of rare marine life.

And I get a bit fed up of them giving me the hard sell for donations. I would have much more of an urge to do this if their salepeople weren't on commision.

Weather patterns (3, Informative)

reachinmark (536719) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186355)

It bothers me that people think they can make assumptions about the Earth's weather patterns based on roughly 100 years (NASA: Surface Temperature Analysis [nasa.gov] ) of temperature data.

Given that we are constantly learning about various cycles in global climate, some of which seem to span over thousands of years ( E.g. NASA: The Sun-Weather connection [nasa.gov] ), you can't possibly claim for certain that any temperature fluctuations over the past 10, 20 or 50 years are due exlusively to our behaviour.

I'm not against cleaning up the earth, I just think that global warming isn't a good argument.

Not that much water (2, Insightful)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186357)

500 million billion tons? Let's go metric because that is easier. 200 m thick by 3250 km square = 6.5e11 m^3. Ice is about 1/3 the density of water which is 1000 kg/m^3, so we are talking about ~2.2e9kg. Just 2.2 billion kg.

For comparison, how much water is in Lake Titicaca? About 9 trillion kg. Over a thousand times as much. And how much would global sea levels rise if Titicaca drained into the ocean? Negligible.

It seems as though Slashdot has expanded from making wild-eyed, tinfoil-hatted claims about technology and privacy to making wild-eyed, tinfoil-hatted and non-mathematical claims about the environment.

Re:Not that much water (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186369)

Smarty pants

Re:Not that much water (1)

mnbv (149603) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186391)

Mr. Physics Genius, I think you should take another look at your calculations.

Heh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186400)

And how much would global sea levels rise if Titicaca drained into the ocean? Negligible

Heh! You said "titicaca"!

Re:Not that much water (1)

grid geek (532440) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186446)

Ok, lets be geeks and calculate average increase in sea level then ...

surface area of the planet = 4*Pi*R^2 = 4 * 3.142 * 6376000 ^ 2 = 510,931,600m^2

assuming 3/4 is water ~ 361 million m^2

The ice chunk (using the previous posts comments) is equiv to a sheet 1cm thick covering 65 billion m^2 which when spread over the world equals an increase in water level of 1.8m. Oh Bugger! lets hope it doesn't all melt soon.

Re:Not that much water (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186451)

Non-mathematical claims! What is this world coming to!

SOOO? (1)

Penguinoflight (517245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186364)

What did it do to the "Envirenment" of Antartica? This does sound like a huge sheet of ice.

I just heard that penguins (real ones, not linux geeks) have been dieng in Antartica. How would this breakage effect them?

Who caused the Ice Age? (2, Interesting)

Slashdolt (166321) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186374)

From what I understand, Man produces about 1% of all of the planets cloro-floro carbons (greenhouse gases). If we cut production completely, we would end up with a negligible effect.

In addition to that, we produce carbon dioxide thru processes like, say, breathing. Carbon dioxide is what plants breathe with. More C02 means more plants! Oh no!!!

Finally, who caused the last Ice Age? But more to the point, who raised the global temperature enough to get us out of the Ice Age? Actually, nobody knows for sure, but I highly doubt it was because the cave-men had too many campfires.

Perhaps we can change the global temperature to some small degree (no pun intended), but the natural processes that take place on the earth (volcanoes, most notably) do much more to raise the global temperature than Man could ever hope to achieve.

Yup, it sucks, but we're pretty much at the mercy of our planet. Not the other way around.

Well duh! (2, Insightful)

Kamel Jockey (409856) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186385)

People do realize that for 6 months (during the fall and winter in the northern hemisphere), it is continously daylight in Antartica, right? Of course the ice cap there is going to shrink.

Last summer, when it was dark there, it was reported that the ice cap expanded, so what is the big deal?

I'll bet you in 6 months, Greenpeace will be saying the northern polar ice cap is melting too.

Re:Well duh! (1)

marijne (536748) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186435)

and that there is not enough plant life on the polar cap

It's because of all that salt in the Ocean (2, Funny)

FXSTD (468083) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186386)

The real problem is all the salt in the ocean, it is eventually gonna melt all the ice. We need to get rid of it NOW. It is probably caused by the road commision spreading so much in the winter --to melt the ice on the road, which then drains off into the creeks and streams, then to the rivers and then the ocean, making it salty! Stop using salt to melt road ice, and things in the ocean will stop melting.

Salinity? (2, Interesting)

YanceyAI (192279) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186388)

Will these two phenomenon affect sea water salinity? I read recently that decreased salinity is a serious threat to the sub ocean currents that keep our global climate stable. Does anyone have a link that discusses the point?

Greenhouse Gasses (4, Insightful)

Aglassis (10161) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186397)

It always ticks me off that the Greenpeace people oppose anything that creates greenhouse gasses while at the same time protesting nuclear power which is the only real way to get free of greenhouse gas emmisions. That is unless we decide to go back into the stone age as many of them suggest. If they weren't such jackasses about the nuclear power situation public opinion might be much different and greenhouse emmission might be significantly less.

The alternative power that they keep on trying to push is a myth. When you look at actual output, it is trivial to any real source. You aren't going to run a 60 MWe silicon refining plant in the northwest with solar panels and windmills. It isn't going to happen. Not unless the price is increased 10-fold. Sure you can power your house as they always point out. But your house is 2 KW load. Industry takes up far more power than housing.

The only way to reduce emissions of greenhouse gasses is to stop burning coal and gas. Thats it. And it has to be done now instead of 30 years from now when the alternative power myth becomes useful (probably more like 50).

Blame the sun (5, Insightful)

CausticPuppy (82139) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186408)

Why do the environmentalists insist that if it weren't for us humans, the Earth's climate would be a completely stable system, in harmony with all the happy birds, dolphins, and squirrels?

Don't they realize that the sun is quite hotter than "normal" right now, at the peak of its sunspot cycle? Don't they know that the sun's output fluctuates considerably, and a cooler sun (with virtually no sunspots) was responsible for the "mini ice-age" that occurred from the 13th to 16th centuries?

Or maybe those are just the claims of radicals with an anti-sun agenda.

With their own agenda (bad rant) (1)

KjetilK (186133) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186409)

Well, I happen to think that Bush is a serious problem, for everything, and yeah, there are some big players who really don't want to get things to change.

I've called myself an environmentalist for as long as I have understood what that word meant.

Therefore, I really don't like people trying to equate me with Bush and that kind of stuff, as it is my honest and I believe well founded opinion that climate research is in a very sorry state. Their statistics suck, their physics sucks, their computer modelling sucks. In essense, I think their cited uncertainties is nowhere near the real uncertainties.

Earth's climate isn't static. Has never been. That being said, we shouldn't go on burning everything we can get our hands on. But policies should have a sound foundation.

However, I'm afraid that for policies to have a sound foundation, whole political systems has to be changed.

risk != probability * consequence (3, Informative)

sillysally (193936) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186415)

consult any standard text: risk is absolutely not probability*consequence. probability times consequence is "expected value". risk is the variance in expected outcomes.

Hmmm... (3, Interesting)

FinnishFlash (414045) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186416)

Did you read the article before submitting ?

Quote:

"However, the picture generally in Antarctica is a complicated one with temperatures in the interior actually falling over the same period. "


And Greenpeace doesn't have it's own agenda ?

Our Life Span. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186420)

If the average age of a human was over 200 years, I think our views on the environment and pollution would be different. Because if we had to make un-wise decisions now they would effect us within our life-time.

Most of us have a 'don't care' attitude because some future generation can deal with any problems and we will be long gone.

P.

Tow it to Puerto Vallerta (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186422)

Tow that sucker to Puerto Vallerta. It will give us here on the entire Pacific coast of Mexico all the fresh water and ice we will need for the next hundred years.

My mother took both of her hair dryers and moved to Antarctica three years ago. Now I know what she was doing there - she's melting all the ice down there so she can set up a homestead where it will be light 24 hours a day during November, December and January.

Is page widening fixed yet? (-1)

by FortKnox on (563942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186426)

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Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addre ssbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan. priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday . hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys . pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonx rc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .ui trc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc . xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xta lkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook . addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .day plan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .hol iday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .n c_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ss h .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.v t100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xc oralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsess ion .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addre ssbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayp lan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .g rok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .m uttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signa ture .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console . uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vi mrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure . xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources . addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc . dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimpr c .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxr c .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .s ignature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.cons ole .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlvie w .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.s ecure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xreso urces .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history . bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exr c .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kerm rc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile . seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .ui trc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm . urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserv errc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap . Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_hist ory .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs . exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .k ermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profil e .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex . uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xte rm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .x serverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmod map .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash _history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc . emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz . kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc . profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone . tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitr c.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinit rc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults . Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu . bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvips rc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .j azz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pin erc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .suse phone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt10 2 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim . xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefa ults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressboo k.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv . dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotja va .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp . pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .s usephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.v t102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm . xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc. Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addre ssbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan. priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday . hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys . pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonx rc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .ui trc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc . xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xta lkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook . addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .day plan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .hol iday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .n c_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ss h .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.v t100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xc oralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsess ion .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addre ssbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayp lan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .g rok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .m uttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signa ture .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console . uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vi mrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure . xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources . addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc . dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimpr c .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxr c .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .s ignature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.cons ole .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlvie w .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.s ecure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xreso urces .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history . bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exr c .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kerm rc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile . seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .ui trc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm . urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserv errc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap . Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_hist ory .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs . exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .k ermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profil e .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex . uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xte rm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .x serverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmod map .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash _history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc . emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .jazz . kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc . profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .susephone . tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitr c.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinit rc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults . Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressbook.lu . bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv .dvips rc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotjava .j azz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pin erc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .suse phone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt10 2 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim . xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefa ults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addressboo k.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan.priv . dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday .hotja va .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys .pgp . pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonxrc .s usephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.v t102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc .xfm . xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xtalkrc. Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook .addre ssbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .dayplan. priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .holiday . hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .nc_keys . pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ssh .stonx rc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.vt100 .ui trc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xcoralrc . xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsession .xta lkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addressbook . addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayplan .day plan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .grok .hol iday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .muttrc .n c_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signature .ss h .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console .uitrc.v t100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vimrc .xc oralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure .xsess ion .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources .addre ssbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc .dayp lan .dayplan.priv .dvipsrc .emacs .exrc .gimprc .g rok .holiday .hotjava .jazz .kde .kermrc .lyxrc .m uttrc .nc_keys .pgp .pinerc .profile .seyon .signa ture .ssh .stonxrc .susephone .tex .uitrc.console . uitrc.vt100 .uitrc.vt102 .uitrc.xterm .urlview .vi mrc .xcoralrc .xfm .xim .xinitrc .xserverrc.secure . xsession .xtalkrc.Xdefaults .Xmodmap .Xresources . addressbook .addressbook.lu .bash_history .bashrc . dayplan .dayplan.priv

Re:Is page widening fixed yet? (-1)

by FortKnox on (563942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186440)

Wow!!! it actually is!!!

So motherfuckin' what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186427)

If global warming is real, then why are you complaining. If the planet gets warmer, then you don't have to worry about driving though snow, freezing your balls (or tits) off, skidding on ice, or breaking your back shovelling that white shit.

Even better, the girls wear summer clothes all year round. >^..^

Let's just hope... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186429)

...that the folks who voted for Bush get their skin cancer and tumors first.

It doesn't matter if they don't -- pasty white polluting Americans will be gone soon enough. The genetically modified foods and bovine growth hormone-injected beef and dairy products and pesticides pumped into food are making people sterile anyway [google.com] .

Whiner Groups (1)

Aknaton (528294) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186430)

Am I the only one tired of hearing from groups like Greenpeace, Amnesty International, and PETA?

I swear, the world is overflowing with whiners.

Oh dear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186433)

This is the day I finally stop reading slashdot. Already it is full of stupid stories but this is the worst. The traditional media has completely fallen for the myth of global warming but I thought that the people here had more sense. Clearly not. Goodbye

Sea Level (1)

Daftspaniel (527440) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186436)

Actually more water != higher sea level - there are some other factors.
Ocean Bed Compaction due to increased water mass may compensate, Gravitational influences... this is just from memory so there are bound to be more.
That said, the sea being in your living room is a problem whatever the cause. I better learn to swim.

Global temerature fluctuations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186442)

They've always happened, and alway will (as long as the sun burns). Nevertheless, small pressure groups imagine themselves as Canute, and scream let us attempt to halt progress and try (in an extremely futile manner) to stop these natural phenomena.

As for the individual chunk of ice breaking away, I would ask how long has it actually been closely observed for (50 years, 100 years, not very long I'll venture). Should our accurate records go back, for example, 10000 years I'm sure that this would not be seen as an unusual or isolated event.

Run For my Life! I am in South Florida's Flatland! (1)

Mimsy (13808) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186444)

I am getting very nervous with these developments. I live less than 5 miles from the Gulf of Mexico and only 5ft above sea level.

What to do? I am not certian at this time, but I guess when I inherit my mom's property in North Florida at 150ft above sea level, I will have Ocean Front Property
:-)

I just have to remember to move or learn to tread water!

Two graphs to consider. (5, Informative)

e_lehman (143896) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186449)

If you're unsure where you stand on the issue of global warming, you might want to look at the following two graphs. The first shows that carbon dioxide levels are rapidly rising. [ornl.gov] There is no real question that this is much human induced. At the same time, global temperatures are also dramatically rising. [noaa.gov] Here the extent of human influence is more debatable. It is possible that an apparent cause (rising CO2) and an apparent effect (rising temperatures) are both happening independently but, coincidentally, at the same time. And, also at the same time, there is some other, unknown force causing the entire planet to heat. It truly is possible. But I wouldn't personally bet the world on that.

Who was Larsen? What lessons to learn from him? (2, Informative)

geoswan (316494) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186454)

I am guessing that the Larsen this shelf is named after was the Captain of the St Roch, the second vessel to traverse the NW passage, and the first to do so from West to East. Here is a link [maritime.org] and another one [tiscali.nl] .

The St Roch, commanded by Sergeant Larsen, needed 28 months to complete its first traverse of the NW passage, during WW2. (Basically defending the Canadian Arctic from our insensitive American allies.) The recreation of its voyage, in 2000, encountered clear sailing in waters that had been choked with ice sixty years earlier, providing very clear evidence of global warming. [guardian.co.uk]

Meanwhile, In other news ... (4, Informative)

gewalker (57809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3186461)

According to most scientistics, the retreat in the West Antarctic ice sheet has been occuring for 10,000 years [bbc.co.uk] .

Also on BBC, Ice thickens in West Antarctica [bbc.co.uk]

Sun is hotter [lubbockonline.com] , but shrinking [stanford.edu] (mass energy conversion, you know).

Maybe we should realize that perhaps some of the global warming hype is just hype. Everytime there is a heat wave on the news coasts, there a new round of global warming stories. Normal climate variability is large, and modern winters are not the warmest ever (or even in modern history). Check out Minnesota 1877 [umn.edu] . The observed long-term warming trend since 1900 is not unusual in terms of climate history.

BTW, risk of Kyoto protocol is followed in 100% of the expected cost, because it is certain damage to world economy.

Re: this is terrible news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3186463)

Quoting from the ' British Antarctic Survey' article:
' As it is already floating the disintegration of Larsen will have no impact on sea level. Sea level will rise only if the ice held back by the ice shelf flows more quickly onto the sea.'

oh well, i guess that's terrible news for all you doomsayers.
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