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Apple Wants Your Input

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the but-only-one-mouse-click-at-a-time dept.

Apple 1002

Johnny Mnemonic writes "Apple is asking for feedback specifically from PC users about why you might be considering a Mac purchase, or if you recently purchased a Mac for the first time, why you made the switch. A good opportunity to sound off about your Apple peeves, but also a chance to let Apple know what you think they're doing right. The Mac OS X feedback page, originally from the Public Beta, is still up and accepting feedback, also."

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Rape (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218717)

An ape.

Why The Trolls Are Here (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218727)

Why the Trolls are here

I think I know why the wintendo users are here. Having laid around in a
couple of windoze-expee groups, it's pretty clear many of the people
there that _love_ windoze are having a hard time making their case. There
are a half dozen people trying to hold up against an onslaught of angry,
impatient and/or worn-out users who complain incessantly about how bad
the stupid ME of NT is working. Over and over again, they have to give
the same 2 or 3 answers that only work about 5% of the time. Over and
over again, they have to give the same 6 or 7 URLs that explain the MS
line about how it's all somebody else's fault, or why their Fischer Price
desktop is so buggy.

Users go to the group looking for help: cd writing software doesn't work;
system reboots spontaneously (a handy replacement for the BSOD); try to
make the desktop less cartoonish, reboot, Hanna-Barbera is back again;
try clicking a link in IE and it either disappears, locks up, crashes the
system, or a whole assortment of other problems; ditto for Outhost
Distress; suddenly being told that their legally registered install is
going to expire in XX days; installing for only the second time and being
told they've installed too many times and have to call and ask
permission; getting error messages at boot that make no sense; getting
error messages while running things that make no sense; getting error
messages at shutdown that make no sense; convert a drive to NTFS (making
it impossible to recover anything except via Ex-Pee) and finding out
Ex-Pee doesn't recognize it; lousy DVD playback performance; disappearing
taskbars, disappearing tasks on taskbars; on and on and on.

The windolts have invested a lot of time and money (especially money) in
trying to make things run smoothly. They've made excuses, found
workarounds, bought other stuff to fix what was wrong, hunted all over
the world for help, asked in newsgroups, and more. They've done
everything they can to convince themselves that this is all normal. But,
no matter how hard they try, they keep coming back to the realization
that their MS-Crapware 3.0SP5 is just that: crapware.

Well, misery loves company, so they say. They see people in any of the
linux newsgroups actually having far fewer problems, enjoying real
stability, using apps as they are intended (versus having to work around
with kludges and third-party, commercial software) and basically actually
liking things in general. The winbots are still in denial, and they
haven't faced up to reality. So they don't really believe that linux can
be stable, despite an overwhelming amount of solid proof. (Alcoholics,
drug addicts, compulsive gamblers and others deal with life the same
way.) Their experience with wintendo proves to them that things
can't really be like that. Plus, they've spent a large fortune on their
crapware, and buying things to fix it, to let it die off that easily.

They can't handle the unending bad news in the Ex-Pee newsgroups. They
also can't handle the proof that theirs was an inferior choice, which is
evident in the linux newsgroups. So they come in and attack, trying to
prove your stuff is just as bad as theirs, and they made a choice that
isn't any different than the one you made, excepting they paid for their
mistake. They choose advocacy because that might be a target for the
curious user, the one that might be contemplating linux but sill has some
uncertainty. If they can chase some people away from linux, basically by
making them think that the problems they have now won't be any different
if they change, the winbots will feel justified in their existence and in
their choices.

This little dissertation doesn't include the likes of the wanker in
chief, because he has his own motivation (attention), but the solution is
the same. It also doesn't include the paid trolls (flatfish, wjbell, the
name-of-the-hour guy from Spain that was a royal pain a few days ago,
etc). But in all cases, the real solution is the same.

Just say no: don't reply. Don't offer them the little bit of
justification they're seeking. They'll go away. They'll change identities
and try sneaking in, they'll cross-post all over usenet, they'll try
pretending to advocate linux, to have "seen the light." But, their goals
will remain to disrupt. Eventually, maybe days, weeks or months, but
eventually, they'll all disappear except for the random attempt to
infiltrate with a new identity.

I wouldn't even go so far as to let them know they've been killed: just
do it!

I respond to one from time to time. I make a concerted effort not to do
so, and slip every now and then. But I get right up and try again. Mostly
I'm successful. But I also know the temptation to talk to them can be
really huge. It's still best to just ignore them and quietly add them to
the killfilters and move on.

There's my solution. Choose to use or ignore. But if you aren't doing
something active to eliminate them, it would seem futile to keep
complaining about their continued residence here.

My Input (-1, Offtopic)

Genghis Troll (158585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218731)

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Nomaba ibidihub fobet sipilas. Tay owicica ceyiehin piyer qumoya! Holupat iedim dilot luraf atefo ogara re cel ned bicepas. Te rin coh se nixo vece ca.

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Niesi cagate meb sete ecayeriem lerisir fan li yiesus bitupo, meticor pop ucana pecoy turob kahierem. Si ogal sur vovox mari hih? Nonelar qieliemer amate hile xe araserir. Lidos bohoh ge lumeh naqie cawa rit neb imayepa reri; bipefo ine inec pe eresuhe lucoto tim ahayepi fowulo. Iru jiecas sata atasiepo lunie tanumer. Xuce yo ri oru rasemen oniefayic tefunud bire unicil. Ieru ocon ipi nirutom bo lecidar nep. Loyesi yosi fel ci epet saniyo. Enieyoler tie reg tu! Sup laxaso pagoloy ototefi kin. Ca oyemato werupeg? Hite na imocuhiy cosafis. Pedug eyietom natebi siefec ededuc sileso. Fos satim sene acatavo tepiven beya onuye ya isor rutihan? Ezerala casie efedemi ofu cusenop rale sie inafeta: Inek rut eped ru ci hiyey vimedo keleta fegap mala.

Re:My Input (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218791)

Umm...WTF was that all about?

Re:My Input (-1)

Genghis Troll (158585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218872)

This actually wasn't off-topic at all. Thanks, though.

I submitted this yesterday (2, Insightful)

Bobartig (61456) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218737)

And I think it's not only the PC people who ARE interested in macs, but those who specifically aren't interested as well. Maybe then, Apple would really know what they need to woo the "other 95%".

Re:I submitted this yesterday (2)

digitalunity (19107) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218757)

When the G5 comes out, I'll buy one.

OSX isn't enough of a motivation.

Re:I submitted this yesterday (1)

mjrKong (235035) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218771)

in my experience it is just that people are not willing to try.. they are so set in the notion that a pc is the endall greatest thing.. and that windows is the only thing that works in the world.. that they don't even consider a mac..

also.. i know a lot of poeple who are just way to lazy to actually spend the time and learn something different than windows

Re:I submitted this yesterday (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218894)

Um, no. Maybe some of us came from the Mac in the first place. I will never go back. I've even tried the latest and it still sucks IMHO

one reason... (5, Insightful)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218740)

MAC OSX..
simply the best Unix version for the desktop, the power of unix with the commercial support of windows without the excess baggage. That is one big reason.

Sure I'd buy a Mac if.. (2, Informative)

1stflight (48795) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218741)

1 It didn't cost me an arm and a leg. For what I'd pay for a new IMac, I could easily stock a brand new AthlonXP w/a full fledge GF4.

Aside from that I love Mac's just too out of my price range .. *blah*

uhh (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218860)

the new imacs come standard with a GF4.

Re:Sure I'd buy a Mac if.. (1)

MacBoy (30701) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218890)

But you would have to build it yourself. Don't get me wrong... I personally would never buy a PC that I did not build myself (Macs excluded of course).

If you want to have a complete system in a box with a warranty and a dealer that will take care of you and toll-free tech support, and all the other bonuses, you pay as much for an "equivalent" PC as you do for the Mac. Of course, one could argue that no PC could equal the Mac, if only for the reason that it doesn't run Mac OS X, but that is a debate for a different forum.

My Question to Apple (1)

yzf750 (178710) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218744)

Tell me where I can buy a iMac LCD with a Superdrive tomorrow.

Re:My Question to Apple (1)

cehardin (163989) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218775)

My local CompUSA will have them this week, I specifically asked them if they will have that model.

Apple Stores seem to have more of the new iMacs in stock, so you might want to try there

Dear Apple, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218746)

Please can you get Motorola off of their fat hairy arses and make them develop a chip that can compete with the latest chips from AMD and P4, and release it in a timely manner. When your top of the line system costs 2x as much as a top of the line PC, yet has a processor running at half the speed, you know that whatever Photoshop can do in a few selected tests, the Mac will be slower than the PC. And whilst I am on the subject, open up Sorensen codec for Quicktime, and ship top of the range graphics cards with your top of the range Macs. And about those mouse buttons... Yours Sincerely, Prof. Snuffle von Kamputtletroffle.

Re:Dear Apple, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218810)

The top of the line Mac's do hasve top of the line graphics cards, namely GeForce 4's. Does your AMD or P4 system have firewire, gigabit ethernet, an 802.11b bracket, and a DVD burner? Those are dual 1GHz G4's on the top of the line Mac's, though I'll admit the G4 can't over come a 2GHz P4 is real world uses, accept for vector and floating point, I'd rather have a PPC than anytthing else under my hood.

Re:Dear Apple, (1)

shed (68365) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218901)

I'm pretty interested in the new iMac, don't get me wrong, but don't forget that that snazzy "GeForce 4" card is actually a GeForce 4mx, ie a souped up 2mx without pixel or vertex shaders. It's fast enough for most games, but will be obsolete - and unupgradeable - in a few years. Or a year.

IMHO, the new iMac is a great deal for what it is, but I'll keep what us old folks call a "pc-compatible" for gaming.

Re:Dear Apple, (2, Informative)

spir0 (319821) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218875)

there's a little bit more to consider than clock speed. there's base frequency, there's how the OS deals with the CPU, there's the efficiency of the bus and the rest of the architecture.

I use PCs because they're cheap, but I'd like to use a G4 because they're friggin quick.

don't do what every intel and M$ marketing dept in the world wants you to do... ie; look at the numbers on the outside without any understanding of the underlying logic...

Well... (0, Flamebait)

xdistak (568587) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218747)

Considering that their new computer looks like a freaking DESK LAMP, I think that some feedback might be helpful for those guys at Apple. And what's with that new commercial of theirs? Does the computer really move on its own? -duh-

good one !!!1 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218786)

j00 are s00 smart d00der. sock it to steve jobs hehehehehe. like totaly those old iMacs look like gumdrops and don't run leenux or wtf man those stupid iTrashBooks man they look like toilet seetats hehehe wtfm an

Who gives a shit? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218750)

The Apple/Mac crowd have even less traction than the KDE/Gnome Linux group. Who gives a shit anymore what Apple thinks or wants? They seem to be in the business of supplying overpriced hardware to the museum crowd, maybe there's a living in that, I don't really know. Good luck Steve.

Why I DITCHED Mac (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218753)

I originally used a Apple II, then moved on to PCs... After a Pentium 133 I got my first mac. A month ago I got a thinkpad 366 (used) with windows 2000. My mac is a iBook with OS X.

I never thought I'd like PC, but the main reason I used mac was stability. I was used to Windows 95- 2000 was just as stable as the Mac. I like being able to get software. The 366 is faster than the iBook with the bloated OS X.

Apple needs to make OS X more stable, and get more developers to support it. PC really has a advantage (and I HATED it for a long time.) I like the UNIX base of OS X, gotta get linux soon I guess.

OS X more stable? (1)

Therlin (126989) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218815)

OS X is stable enough. The other day I checked my uptime and it was 36 days. Unfortunately I had to reboot after installing an update. I've only crashed once since installing it. And that's pretty good for a brand new OS.

Buying Apple Hardware--- no no (1)

Splezunk (250168) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218760)

I was considering moving to Apple after the Demise of BeOS. Tried Linux, wasn't happy. Apple looked good, but coming from a x86 Background with lots of Hardware lying about, I wasn't ready to chuck that all away.

If Apple released MacOS X for x86, I would buy it immediately, and so would a lot of other --dissapointed of using windows -- users. Of course this will never happen 'cause Apple enjoys controlling their mini monopoly.

Re:Buying Apple Hardware--- no no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218807)

Go to www.apple.com's darwin section. There is a working x86 port of the Mac OS X.1 (10.1) core.

Re:Buying Apple Hardware--- no no (1)

zaffir (546764) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218836)

Yes, but you don't get Aqua. Although, i'd be interested to see if you could, after installing X11, run Mac GUI apps. I'll have to try it.

Re:Buying Apple Hardware--- no no (1)

Dudio (529949) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218881)

That's interesting; I had no idea this existed. However, this page [apple.com] clarifies Darwin's role a bit:

Q: Will Mac OS X be ported to the PC?

A: There are no plans to make Mac OS X available on any non-Apple platforms. We're simply making Darwin, the underlying operating system of Mac OS X, a better system by using x86 as a test bed to ensure architectural soundness and to reap the benefits from applying portable software coding practices.


Now, this make sense. After all, Apple is a hardware company, and Mac OS is the primary differentiating characteristic of Macs for most people. If we could install OS X on commodity PC hardware, Mac sales would likely plummet. Remember what happened when they licensed 3rd party manufacturers before Jobs came back?

Re:Buying Apple Hardware--- no no (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218888)

Nope. Apple won't do it because thier business comes from hardware.

The vast majority of Apple's income comes from the computers, all porting OS X to IA would do is cause Apple to go under.

Re:Buying Apple Hardware--- no no (1)

horse (70241) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218904)

If they released OS X for the 86 I might switch, because I could just boot to Windows to play games.

Games are mostly what ties me to Windows.

I might consider buying an Apple (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218762)

If they shoved Quicktime up their collective ass.

And then I'd wait for hell to freeze over, the Pope to poop in the woods, and for a bear to proclaim itself catholic.

Then I'd wait for hell to freeze over again. Then I would buy an Apple.

Why not ask the real question...? (5, Interesting)

xonker (29382) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218764)

What about asking why people aren't considering Apple? Seems to me they're just soliciting favorable commentary.

If I was in Apple's marketing department I'd be asking "what would it take to get you to switch to Macs?" not "why are you thinking about buying a Mac?" or "Now that we have your money, what do you think?"

There are two main things stopping Apple from gaining greater market share: Price and Applications. They cost too damn much (for what you get) and don't have all the apps that Windows (or even Linux, these days) has.

I'd really like to see Apple get their act together and take about 30% of the desktop market instead of the pathetic share they have now. I'd be happy as a clam if Linux could steal just 20% of the market, give Apple 30% and let Microsoft keep the majority but keep them on their toes.

Re:Why not ask the real question...? (5, Insightful)

TheAJofOZ (215260) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218841)

If I was in Apple's marketing department I'd be asking "what would it take to get you to switch to Macs?" not "why are you thinking about buying a Mac?" or "Now that we have your money, what do you think?"

Because they already know all the reasons people give for not buying a Mac. You give two favourites yourself.

There are two main things stopping Apple from gaining greater market share: Price and Applications. They cost too damn much (for what you get) and don't have all the apps that Windows (or even Linux, these days) has.

Now lets look at it: First off, price. The bottom line iMac is actually very cheap and when you compare it to a packaged PC deal with 3 year warranty, you'll actually find the prices are roughly the same and the Mac has more features. For the average user speed is not an issue, that's why Celerons sell so well.

Next up, applications. There are more Windows applications out there, given. However, there are *far* more Mac OS X applications out there than there are Linux applications, despite your statement. This is mostly because most Linux applications happily run on OS X (and more and more are coming precompiled in a double-clickable installer). Secondly, most of the applications on Windows are absolute crap that you don't want to use. Think about it - how many applications do you have installed on your PC? How many do you use? What do you need to do that can't be done on the Mac? While there are some things that are better done on a Windows box, and some things that can't be done on a Mac at all, for most people all the apps you'll ever need are available for Mac.

The other thing to note is that Apple is asking people who are considering Mac what they think because they are potential customers, people who have ruled out Macintosh (or are so narrow minded that they won't even consider it) are a lost cause for Apple. Take the easy money first then slowly expand into the harder markets if you need to. Don't beat your head against a brick wall for no reason.

Re:Why not ask the real question...? (2)

quantaman (517394) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218845)

I was a long time apple user and loved the OS. However I'm now typing this in on an Athalon running XP and Redhat 7.2. The primary reason I made the switch is price, it would have cost me an arm and a leg to get anything other than an iMac which had too small a monitor (the component that couldn't be upgraded without buying an external one). I never considered the "lack" of applications although windows people always bugged me about it, I don't see the advantage in having 50x as many games as you could possibly play as opposed to 10x. I also found 8.1 fairly slow in relation to Wintels from the same year, and also fairly buggy (though not as buggy as ME on my new machine). My parents are getting a new iMac (it should be arrieving any day now...) and I'm looking forward to looking at OS X.

Re:Why not ask the real question...? (1)

Perdo (151843) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218884)

Ias yoaur "Athalon" reaally faast? Perahaps yoaur neaw iMaac wiall bae fasater..

Re:Why not ask the real question...? (2)

MouseR (3264) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218851)

What about asking why people aren't considering Apple? Seems to me they're just soliciting favorable commentary.

The problem with trying to address those people is trying to address those people.

Take you average PC user. He's using a PC because he has not considered anything else. It's what the mass uses. So, he wont address the dilemma or considering anything else but the one most susceptible of being in his environment.

Thus, the mass of PC users wont be very much keen into letting Apple know why they didn't choose Apple (or Linux, or BSD, or else). Apple just can not reach those users. They are undisturbably comfy with their choice.

Re:Why not ask the real question...? (1)

Drishmung (458368) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218853)

No, it's probably a good strategy. Ask people what it was that made them switch. Gives marketing some clues as to what they are doing right and should
  1. Do better
  2. advertise more :-)

This has an advantage: people are likely more honest on why they did make a purchase vs why they would (might) make a purchase.

Ask people what they want, and as Scott Adams says, they "want better products for free". Yup, I'll go for that. But it's not a lot of help in doing market research.

Re:Why not ask the real question...? (1)

lancew (178722) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218893)

What about asking why people aren't considering Apple? ... If I was in Apple's marketing department I'd be asking "what would it take to get you to switch to Macs?"

Maybe this is step one; find out what attacts people and then play up to that in marketing/development. If you start off asking people what they want put in, you'll get every answer under the sun. For a good example of this check out any apple rumor site just before Macworld. Remember iwalk? This was supposed to be a pda, mp3 player, cellphone, dvd player, two-way radio, microwave oven AND a floor wax. Oh, and they better not charge over $2.95 for it because thats what it can be built for using parts off pricewatch.

talkjlkadsjglkj (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218767)

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price (1, Interesting)

nihilist_1137 (536663) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218768)

"I would consider switching if you made your products cheaper: ie the Ti Book."

Its good stuff its just 1.5 to 3 times as much for computers that are 6 to 12 months back.

Re:price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218804)

I have to totally agree, and I'm sure if Apple were to release OSX or whatever for x86 architecture then it would only emphasise the performance gap.

Possibly for the iPod? (2)

neema (170845) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218772)

I just recently purchased the iPod and I'm using a PC. I was debating whether I should or not being that they may release a PC version (rumor is middle of this year) and whether or not I'd be fucked (by the way, anyone's input on this would be appreciated, what your personal choice would be).

I think this may somewhat go to them basically asking "Hey, does our products compel you to buy an apple because, if not, maybe we'll just release them for the PC instead."

Of course, I'll leave it up to Apple to be a bit more subtle.

Before it happens... (3, Insightful)

Mike Schiraldi (18296) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218777)

Here's my question: Why are we still double-clicking?

MacOS required double-clicking because it originally only supported one mouse button.

Microsoft ripped off MacOS, warts and all, so Windows makes you double-click too.

Then the Linux desktops ripped off Windows, warts and all, and we have to double-click as well. (Sure, you can override it. I do. But it's certainly not something the average user, even the average Linux user, can do)

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense if your OS worked like your web browser? Left click to launch, left drag to move, right click for more options. No double clicking. Ever.

Remember when you first taught your mom to double click and how much trouble she had? Then she started double-clicking everything: buttons in Word, links in Netscape, you name it. She was confused because it was inconsistent and a stupid UI decision.

So i say Apple should lead the way again and get people off the stupid double-clicking habit.

Re:Before it happens... (3, Insightful)

Monkeyman334 (205694) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218797)

What if I just want to highlight an icon?

Re:Before it happens... (2)

Mike Schiraldi (18296) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218840)

Why? For fun?

If you're highlighting it, you probably want to do something with it, like rename it. To do that, you'll need the right-click menu -- or, on a Mac, i believe it's the command-click or option-click or open-apple-click or something :)

So why not just right click it and skip the pointless highlighting step?

Or, if you really want to highlight it, just hover over it.

Re:Before it happens... (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218902)

Because I like to single click, to grab it, or to move it, or to single click for a Get Info.

If you added "hover" to the whole single, double paradigm, all you will do is confuse users.

All those people sitting at desks in the Corporate and Education world have learned to single and double click, and woe to anyone that changes the system now.

Re:Before it happens... (2)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218802)

well considering they are still building the GUI to be one button-centric, I do not see them dumping double click. and, if you did not notice, all the single click stuff is compatable to the double click, when was the last time a second instence of the link you click ever come up?

yes it is anoying, but it does not keep people from effectivly using the PC.

Re:Before it happens... (1)

eviltypeguy (521224) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218817)

Wow, you're uninformed :) Every since users could download and install IE 5.5, there has been the 'web desktop' option, that makes all launching and most windows behaviors use single-click instead of double-click...

Windows XP has the same thing built in...

Re:Before it happens... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218827)

IE 4.0, you mean.

Re:Before it happens... (2)

Mike Schiraldi (18296) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218858)

I know about that; i meant to mention it where i mentioned it was possible to override it in Linux, too.

But that doesn't matter. Based on the blinking-12:00 problem, 99% of users never change the default settings. If you fix your dad's Windows to not use double-click, and he goes to use someone else's computer, he'll be lost.

Re:Before it happens... (2)

wadetemp (217315) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218886)

Uh, you might also consider yourself under the somewhat misinformed. That feature's been around since IE4, and by virtue has been built into Windows since Windows 98.

Re:Before it happens... (2)

billcopc (196330) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218826)

I personally prefer the double-click : the odds of clicking once on the 'wrong' icon or widget are high, while the odds of clicking twice on the same widget within a fraction of a second are much lower. If my clickfinger twitches involuntarily, I don't want my drive to start loading all 7 gigabytes of the latest Mozilla build, only to close it seconds later.

Double-clicking is easy, just get over it.

Re:Before it happens... (2)

Mike Schiraldi (18296) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218873)

Fine, if you want to use double-click, then at least be consistent -- force the user to double-click the Start Menu, hyperlinks, the menubar at the top of the screen, buttons, window titlebars, everything.

Otherwise, what's the rule for determining what needs to be clicked and what needs to be double-clicked?

There is none.

It's random and you just have to memorize it. That's stupid and it confuses novices for no reason.

Re:Before it happens... (1)

user32.ExitWindowsEx (250475) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218828)

Microsoft already allows you to turn double clicking off in Windows Explorer. It's been there since Active Desktop was made available for Windows 95.

Re:Before it happens... (-1)

Genghis Troll (158585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218832)

If you want single-clicking under Windows XP (at least; I think it's in 2000, too), just go to tools->folder options in an explorer window. Pretty simple.

Already been done... (2)

SlashChick (544252) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218839)

"Wouldn't it make a lot more sense if your OS worked like your web browser?"

In Windows Explorer, go to the Tools menu, then click on Folder Options. Click the radio button labeled "Single-click to open an item (point to select)." Icons on your desktop will then act like web page links.

This option has been around in Windows for a while. I think the real reason people don't use it is mostly because they have grown accustomed to double-clicking. You're right -- it is inconsistent behavior. However, at least Windows gives you a pretty easy way to change it.

Re:Before it happens... (1)

hummer (15382) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218847)

You can do this in Windows. I believe Microsoft even made it the default in one version (98? Me?), but have since reverted to the same old doubleclick style. It's still an option though.

It works basically as you've described. What I disliked about it is that to select a file you just position the mouse pointer over it for a short period of time. Good in theory, but I found that short wait to be annoying, and it made it difficult to efficiently select a large number of files using the control-click method.

I changed back to the old style after using it for about a week.

hummer

Re:Before it happens... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218869)

Personally, I can't remember the last time I had to double click to activate anything in KDE. Single clicking on files or directories opens them, single clicking on icons on the panel activates them. The only places where it uses double clicking is where one click activates, and a second click renames (Konsole tabs, for instance). And it's been this way since KDE 1.0 (which was released years ago)


So, which "Linux desktop" would you be referring to?


-Ryan

Re:Before it happens... (1)

CanadaDave (544515) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218876)

KDE is single-click by default you know...

Re:Before it happens... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218879)

Double clicking can cause nightmares for folks who design applications for the web. If they don't take into consideration that most, if not all people will double-click on any and all links, buttons, and just about anything else it can create undue stress for the application in the way of twice as many 'clicks' and twice as many or more requests to back end databases. I remember a web based app some folks I was working with designed that would just slowly create and leave open connections in the back end and no one initially could figure out why - until we watched some other office staff double clicking on the web links (which only require a single click) - now all requests are cached for 20 to 30 seconds to keep from serving the exact same data 15 times in a row after the user has double clicked, waited, and double clicked again and again.

Re:Before it happens... (2)

Mike Schiraldi (18296) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218883)

Okay, people, you can stop replying to say that it's possible to change these settings in Windows. See this post [slashdot.org] for an explanation.

Of course, nobody reads the replies before replying. Because of the way the moderation system works here, you have to hurry up and get your post out or else nobody, not even the moderators, will ever see it.

Re:Before it happens... (1)

spir0 (319821) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218907)

this should have been modded redundant.

as others have mentioned, you can single click.

but also as others have not mentioned X has been doing longer than the mac has been around.. this is the gui linux uses.

double clicking is useful as a confirmation of your choice of actions.

single clicking is called selection. double clicking is called activation.

they're two different things. but you can still single click because you use windows and windows gives you freedom.

but you've only had 5 or more years to learn that before posting this.

remember, just cos you like something doesn't mean everybody else will.

That's all good but... (2)

crumbz (41803) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218778)

....will Steve Jobs and Co. listen? The single thing that Apple consistently does is this: They make insanely great systems and software (think about the last product you said that about. especially a computer system that your technophobe grandmother loves), yet fails to follow through with the promise time and time again (over-priced hardware, giving up on the educational market, etc.)

But then again, they have US $4.1 billion in the bank and I'm getting a new powerbook soon (my 5th mac) so who am I to judge?

It's the one button mouse (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218779)

I'm mentally retarded and Windows was too complicated with that two button mouse.

I don't need power, I need my computer company to talk down to me like I'm the fucking moron that I am.

Let's try that with... (5, Insightful)

webword (82711) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218788)

...Microsoft [microsoft.com]

On more serious note, surveys and questionnaires are generally useless. They really only get at user preferences not their actual behavior.

Let's take an example. If you asked me if I would rather have a Lexus LS400 or a Honda Accord, I would say I wanted the Lexus LS400. But don't you see how useless that is? What matters are my actions. I don't have the money do buy the Lexus but I might have the money to purchase the Accord and that is what really matters. You need to see what I do at the dealership.

You need to understand usability. You also need to read books like Paco Underhill's Why We Buy : The Science of Shopping [amazon.com] . If you go with surveys and questionnaires, your getting somewhat useless subjective data (i.e., opinions). You really want behavioral data. Got it?

OS called LApple? (1)

scubacuda (411898) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218792)

Are they going to sue anyone [slashdot.org] who creates an OS called LApple?

The real reason we all have computers. . . (2)

AlaskanUnderachiever (561294) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218793)

One word. GAMES Ok so there are plenty of other serious reasons for owning a computer, but HUGE numbers of us also use it as a home entertainment device. While Apple has made great strides in this arena, and there are ever growing numbers of Mac/PC ports, the PC is still the dominant player in this field (and probably will remain so with marketshare being what it is). I love Macs, don't get me wrong. I don't love their price, but I dig the design, the OS support, the ease of use, and the (relative) crash resistance of the complete package. Get Apple to go around to every major game designer out there, get me a product that has the same playability as the PC version, and you've got yourself a new customer. (it helps that the wife has g4 she uses for photography edits)

Re:The real reason we all have computers. . . (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218821)

since when has the 95% of PC users been comprised of teenager kids who love to deathmatch?

last I checked, it was adults and businesses.

Re:The real reason we all have computers. . . (1)

zaffir (546764) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218899)

That just isn't possible. Simultaneous development is costly and slows the whole process down. Liscensing companies to port the games has been the preferred course of action, but it takes time - anywhere from a few months to a year, and there aren't that many porting houses left - i think that Westlake is the only one left (unless MacPlay uses someone other than them).

If you don't know anything about Westlake, its basically a mom-and-pop (literally) porting operation. They work their asses off and produce some really fine ports, but they can only do so much. They are constanly looking for people to hire. A company like that simply can't handle the huge ammount of PC games that are out there.

For the most part, games don't make millions on the Mac. If a game is popular, does it bring in cash? Yes. But not enough to give the original developers a reason to do their own Mac version at the same time as the PC. There are a few exceptions (Blizzard, iD), but for the most part Mac games just don't bring in the cash, and people don't buy Macs for gaming - they're too expensive and too slow.

I feel these emails will fall on deaf ears... (2, Interesting)

Navius Eurisko (322438) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218795)

On the one hand, I think it's great that Apple would be willing to listen to it's customers, especially current and former PC users, about their feelings towards their products and what they could do differently. On the other hand, I feel a lot of the opinions those users express are opinions Apple doesn't want to hear (such as calls to port OS X to x86 hardware, open their hardware to cloning, stop Steve Jobs from obsessively controlling everything comming out of Apple.)

It's my feeling that Apple is doing this survey simply to garner good PR from the PC audience who feel that Apple doesn't care about what it's users want. I suspect those emails that are highly critical of Apple or request changes in areas Apple refuses to consider will go into the trash can on the dock.

So does this mean - (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218801)

All your input are belong to us?

Us being apple...... ok nevermind.

I used to be a mac user (0, Redundant)

CmdrTaco (editor) (564483) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218803)

I used to be a devoted mac user, and I still am deep down in my heart. But one incident drove me to the Wintel world. Back in the mid 1990's (I think it was 1995 or 1996) I bought an Apple-clone from Power Computing. It was a killer machine, and having been a Mac user since its origin I really enjoyed buying a top of the line computer for a somewhat affordable price. Had it not been for the competition, I would probably not been able to afford buying a new computer.

But, as soon as Apple decided to buy back the licenses it had sold to the clone companies, enough was enough. Apple had abandoned me as a consumer of their product, the MacOS, so I was going to abandon them. I have not bought a single product of theirs since, and have built countless Wintel machines.

My suggestion: bring back hardware licensing! It will increase market share and increase the purchases of their OS, where the real money is at anyway.

Re:I used to be a mac user (1)

MacBoy (30701) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218867)

Sorry to say, but selling OS lisences is not profittable. MS does not make it's money from its consumer OS's. They make it from Office and server/enterprise software.

Profit is in my opinion the main reason that Apple decided not to put Mac OS X onto intel hardware. (Note that the developer preview versions of it did run on Intel hardware, and a significant amount of the development was done on Intel!).

Re:I used to be a mac user (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218903)

how can MS not make a shitload off of the OS, given that it costs hundreds of dollars and is installed on most of the computers on the planet?

Re:I used to be a mac user (3, Interesting)

ZigMonty (524212) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218908)

Have you forgotten *why* they scrapped the clones? They nearly went under! Sorry, but as a mac user I'm not willing to risk Apple's future so that you can buy a marginally cheaper computer. Apple wants feedback so that they know what they have to do to win you over. There's no point in winning you over if they fold in the process.

Take a chance (5, Insightful)

PuddleBoy (544111) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218805)

The one thing that Apple has done best (at least during some years) is to try out new designs, new ideas. They've shown a willingness to take risks. Whether it's the GUI, Human Interface Guidelines, the Newton, the iMac, or just little touches that make the computing experience a little bit friendlier. They showed us that there was a viable alternative. Sometimes they fail (eMate, CyberDog, eWorld). But in the process, they teach the whole industry a lesson.

With a behmoth like M$ around, we can use more friendly ideas.

Something for everyone (5, Interesting)

viega (564643) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218806)

I fell in love because of the UNIX environment that can also run Office natively, meaning that I don't have to use Windows ever again.

Two years ago, I never would have considered a Mac, nor would anyone I know, except for artists. Now, my wife, my mother and about 85% of my technical friends are Mac users.

OS X really has something for everyone. My mother loves iTunes... it's so incredibly easy to use. My wife and I like the support for DVD burning. I've recently tried some PC products to do this, and they just aren't mature enough, whereas the Mac solution is simply brilliant.

Ease of use and a real UNIX architecture really make it worthwhile. The cost of hardware is a minus, but I feel it was worth the extra money.

I bought a Mac because Apple has the best support. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218809)

I bought a Mac because Apple has the best support in the industry. Check out this glowing review from MacNet [macnet2.com] :

It used to be that when people were asked what made them Mac users people would always say that the Mac OS was better than Windows (which it was) and that it was easier to use and so forth.

For a loyal Mac user to finally be released from the 'reality distortion field' it can be devastating but at the same time "liberating". For me these last few weeks have been very stressful and not at all what I had had in mind as the publisher of MacNETv2. I can see clearly now and what I see will take some getting used to.

There was no way to know just how many people would contact me after reading my last two columns. I wrote them to get something off my chest. I'm the publisher of a webzine that professes to "Celebrate The Mac!" and here I was doing anything but. The truth is the 'reality distortion field' was weakening and I was getting angry at what I saw.

First there was the news that Apple's Retail Stores were not doing very well and the blame fell squarely on the shoulders of whoever was in charge of building a sales force. I knew first hand how ridiculous things were on the store level and after Charles Haddad broke the news in his Business Week column it gave me an opening to share with my readers the experiences I had had with Apple Retail.

I vented my anger at Apple in that column because with the millions of dollars they were investing in this brilliantly bold move to bring Apple to the masses they were blowing it big time. I'm far from a billionaire but even I know what it takes to make a retail store successful. Even I know how to sell computers to the 'everyday people' better than the bigwigs at Apple. So I let them have it and I was rewarded (?) with nearly 400 emails from people who thought the same way I did. Not a single email disagreed and many shared experiences with me that they had had at the Apple Retail Stores and it wasn't pretty.

Then, after getting the run-around from Apple on a new $3000 Tower purchase I found myself writing another damning column. It wasn't just this Tower experience that finally made me write about Apple Tech Support and Apple Customer Support. It was last October's PowerBook fiasco and last month iBook debacle. Here's some background to let you know why I decided to "go public".

PowerBook G4

Last October my PowerBook G4 racked up it's fourth visit to Apple/Austin for repairs and I was fed up. So I decided to climb up the "Apple Complaint Ladder" until I reached the 'Executive Relations' department. Four major repairs on a computer the entire world lauded as the best in the world were, at best, ridiculous.

After careful review of my service record the woman in Executive Relations agreed with me that I should receive a replacement PowerBook (Gee, ya think?). In a matter of days I was shipped a "like-kind" brand-new PowerBook G4. Although it took two visits too many to Apple/Austin in order to get a replacement I was delighted that it seemed as though someone cared enough to go the extra yard. That didn't last long.

You see, after I received the new PowerBook I spent half a day installing software. After an hour I noticed the PowerBook was getting unusually warm. After two hours it got hot, after three hours I began to worry that Apple had installed a nuclear reactor in it and after the fourth hour I came real close to having the PowerBook blow up in my lap. The computer started smoking and the LCD screen started flickering and I started freaking out. I unplugged the unit, disconnected the battery and called my contact at Executive Relations.

After conversations with Executive Relations and Apple Repair we came to the conclusion that this brand new PowerBook G4 didn't have a working fan. In half a day I managed to pretty much burn it up. Imagine my disappointment.

Executive Relations admitted to being really embarrassed and proceeded to make it up to me by offering another new PowerBook, only this time it was the newer model...more hard drive, more speed, more RAM...not a bad deal. I received the new model PowerBook in two days and promptly returned the burned up computer. I figured that after all these months with a problem PowerBook Apple was making a real effort to make it up to me. I still believe to this day that they tried to do right by me.

Well, the new PowerBook (my third one now) had a problem that took me a few days to find. (Not that I was looking) Seems no matter what kind of RAM you put into this computer it recognized the RAM as incompatible. Yes, I used right RAM...even Apple's own RAM at one point. The PowerBook still called the RAM incompatible. But it worked fine so I decided I could live with it.

Then the time came to use Norton to optimize my hard drive. If you installed nine gigs of software over the course of a few days you simply would have to optimize the drive. So I tried to boot from the Norton CD to run the tests and do the optimization. The PowerBook wouldn't boot from it. Then I tried Tech Tool Pro 3 and got the same result. It wouldn't boot from Tech Tool either.

After trying 6 other bootable CD's, including the OS X and OS 9 CD's that came with the PowerBook I couldn't get any CD to boot...except one...the Apple Hardware Diagnostic CD. Go figure.

Okay, what would you do if you were me? Well, I called Executive Relations again and offered to pay to have it overnighted directly to Executive Relations so they could see for themselves that I wasn't crazy and this new PowerBook refused to boot up from a CD. The last I heard was they were going to get back to me about getting yet another replacement or a fast repair. That was in mid-October, I'm still waiting.

If I were the person on the Apple end of the phone I would have sworn that this person (me) with three bad PowerBooks was trying to pull a fast one (although I couldn't imagine what would be gained), and I imagine they thought the same thing, so I after they hadn't called me back I sent one email. Never got an answer.

So I dropped it. I refused to get involved with Apple again. I was too busy to have to keep complaining about a $3500 PowerBook. I kept the PowerBook. I'm writing this column on it. Lucky for me Apple announced an upgrade path to the Combo Drive so I figured that I'd just wait and upgrade the drive and that would probably fix the boot problem. Never mind that it would cost me $300, after all I wanted a Combo drive anyway. But I was always a little disappointed that Executive Relations never called me back. By the way, I called on February 1st to get the combo drive and I was told it would take three weeks before I received the box to return the PowerBook. I'm still waiting.

And as far as having to boot with Norton or any other CD my problem was resolved by getting a SmartDisk FireFly hard drive. I installed OS X, OS 9, and all the repair utilities I had on this tiny FireFly and I boot from it whenever I need to. I would not have been able to keep this PowerBook running had it not been for the great people at SmartDisk.

iBook

Last month my iBook (Dual USB that I got for Christmas) had a problem. Well, wait, it had a problem the first day I bought it, but I had heard that most of the iBooks had the same problem so I never bothered Apple about it. The problem was the keys on the keyboard kept popping off. No big deal, I never lost one and I learned to keep an eye out for loose keys that were about to pop out and I learned to type by lightly tapping the keys.

The problem that did cause me to call Apple was the CD-ROM drive. One morning while I tried to place the new Garbage CD in it to rip it in iTunes it didn't want to stay closed. I have no idea what happened, it just one day decided not to stay closed. So I called it in. I told them about the keyboard and drive and they sent a box 3 days later. I did not involve Executive Relations, I mean, what's the point, right?

A week later the iBook showed back up at my home and Apple fixed the Drive. But they didn't touch the keyboard. Did I call them back and complain? No, I didn't. I let it slide.

2002 Quicksilver

The day I spent three grand on a new Dual GHz Tower I began to have serious issues with it. Last weeks column runs down the chain of events that caused me to finally write about the horrible state of Apple Tech Support and Customer Care so I won't repeat it here.

The very day my column was published I received a call from Executive Relations...Only this time it was Executive Relations in Cupertino, not Austin. And yes, they insisted they replace my Tower. I haven't received it yet but I have no doubt that I will. Whether it solves the problem or not, who knows? But instead of having to return the Tower to Austin they want it returned to Cupertino.

What I can't figure out is why did Apple call me? There are literally hundreds of people suffering from the same problem I am and Apple hasn't called them to set up a replacement so why did I deserve this special treatment? Okay, they did set up the capture problem but no one on the Apple Discussion Board apparently received one.

I have been pondering the answer to this for several days now. Did Apple want me to write about how great they were at getting to my problem and replacing my machine? Did they expect me to take my column down? I couldn't figure it out. They never even mentioned the column, but they certainly mentioned MacNETv2.

I was grateful that I was getting a new Tower, after all spending $3000 CASH for a new machine only to have it so screwed up I couldn't work on it was a little much, but was I happy with Apple?

In a word? No.

I remember talking to Apple Tech Support early last year when I had my first big problem with the original PowerBook G4. I remember telling him that I used to have to call Apple all the time in the mid-90's, back when they had Kodak Tech people come to your office or home for onsite service. No matter what Mac I owned I was always on the phone or sitting around talking to the Tech guy while he replaced a logic board or something. Those days must have cost Apple millions.

I also told him that I hadn't had to call Apple in the last 3 years because all my Macs ran perfectly. I never had a problem with any computer I bought since Steve Jobs came back. I was assured that this was a fluke and that Apple's quality was still first rate....

So was I just having a string of bad luck with my recent purchases? Was it just me?

After more than 700 emails since I published last week's column I think the answer is apparent; Apple has some real problems that either they don't care about or don't have an answer for.

I received email from people that have more serious horror stories than I did. Some people were so angry and so disappointed that their feelings came through the email like a bolt of lightning. I was literally stunned by the amount of email and the seriousness of the terrible support Apple is offering it's loyal customer base.

Several people urged me not to drop this issue. They implored me to keep it going, keep Apple's feet in the fire until they change their ways. But is that even possible? After all, I started publishing MacNETv2 because I wanted to help evangelize Apple. "Celebrate The Mac!" "Celebrate The Mac"...

Unlike many publishers of Mac-centric web sites, this is my full-time job and only source of income. I have employees to worry about and investors looking to turn a profit in the next year or two. How do I find the right balance of continuing to evangelize the Mac while holding Apple accountable for their quality of products and their quality of customer care? How do I remain true to my readers, my employees, not to mention my investors and myself?

John Manzione

Publisher

Revert to the original logo!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218811)

Get a real mouse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218819)

Macs suck because they have one mouse button. Linux has THREE mouse buttons so it's much better.

And stop using those fuckin slow 68000 chips from motorola, u should use AMD becuz AMD RULEZ.

Re:Get a real mouse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218914)

I'm not gonna touch that lame ass troll with a 10 foot pole. Everything your post said is wrong, downright wrong. Thank you for calling!

AOLpple (1, Troll)

Mike Schiraldi (18296) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218822)

I've got a suggestion, too. Apple should merge with AOL. It makes perfect sense.

They both made their sucess by dumbing down computers to the point where anyone could use them. Their entire business models depend on making computers simple, bright, and pretty.

AOL wants a Microsoft-free Internet appliance, right? How about having the Apple hardware and UI people design it, and then AOL engineers can slap on the AOL client and Mozilla.

Think of all the money they'll save on customer support: they'll have control over every aspect of the experience, from the hardware to the OS to the client software to the server software. AOL currently spends a ton of money talking people through troubleshooting modem problems and whatnot in Windows. With their appliance, they can actually fix the crappy interface.

They're asking the wrong people (2)

fmaxwell (249001) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218823)

The people that they should be asking are those of us who are not considering the purchase of a Mac. Why ask the tiny percentage of the market that is considering it? What about those of us who "think different[ly]"? That said, Apple needs to either get more converts or switch CPUs. With the relatively small user base, their simply is not the money for R&D to improve the CPU and, while it might have been hot when it was launched, it's getting a bit long in the tooth now -- as shown by independent benchmarks.

Re:They're asking the wrong people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218911)

Yeah, gee, why would you learn how to advertise to the people that almost, but not quite, have decided to buy your products? That's a dead end... Can't imagine you have the chance of getting any revenue from them.

Problem with Quicktime.... (1)

sammy.lost-angel.com (316593) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218824)

The problem with Quicktime is not Apple, it's the people that do the codec (Soresen? sorry can't remember off hand). It's a big mess actually, each company says it is the others fault. Quicktime will come to linux (not through wine plug-ins) soon I think. It is an EXCELLENT movie format...

Re:Problem with Quicktime.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218855)

Don't forget that Quicktime allows you to troubleshoot your computer with videoconferencing! [apple.co.jp]

I will never buy Mac (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218831)

Because my computer is not a fashion statement and I'm not trying to be trendy when I purchase a computer. Hey look, my mouse is transparent and it has ONE friggen button!!! Wow. Think my mind can comprehend that complexity?

Not Too Helpful... (1)

drudnick (568710) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218835)

The people they are getting here already have some interest in Apple and therefore are less helpful. They need to randomly survey regular people- business users, education users, home users (put them in focus groups or something too.) They need to find out what they can do to reach out to the people that DON'T know why OS X is different and DON'T know about Apple.

I made the switch! (1)

clmensch (92222) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218842)

Sure, I'm keeping my PC's around...but for everyday computing I love OSX.

I bought a Powerbook G4...and while I think it is a beautiful machine and a dream to use, I am very disappointed in the build quality. The hinge has cracked and the latch has failed, the screen is scratched from contacting the keys when closed, the keyboard randomly spits out "Q's" while typing, and the A/C port is temperamental. Believe it or not, I actually take good care of it...I keep it in a padded sleeve inside a padded case!

So I guess the feedback I'd give to Apple is: Please make your hardware a more durable, or at least give me a robust, foolproof warranty without having to pay an additional $100 a year. After all, I'm paying a premium to own an Apple!

Left hand (2, Interesting)

Perdo (151843) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218844)

Ever try Apple's hot key combo's if you are left handed?

I use the mouse in my left hand. The hot keys cannot be comfortably done with the right hand.

PCs are left hand friendly because the functions accessed with hotkeys on an apple are accessed by right clicking a PC. Ever try the on a mac with your right hand?

Crossover Problems:

Command+z
Command+c
Command+v
Command+x

Crossover and Hand position:

Command+w,+a
Command+Shift+3
Command+Option+Es cape
Command+y
Command+Shift+1 (one)
Command+Shift+0 (zero)
Command+e
Command+Option+w

Nothing like alienating 11% of potential customers when you only have 3% of the market.

Two words... (1)

sanermind (512885) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218857)

Mouse buttons.

Fact: Macintosh Computers are for Homosexuals (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3218861)

The Truth About Apple Macintosh Computers:

In this article, I plan to outline, using four fairly obvious facts, that there is indeed a correlation between the use of Apple Macintosh computers and homosexuality.

Chapter 1 - The Link Between Homosexuality and Macintosh Computers.

Fact 1: Apple designs its machines using rounded, bubbly and colorful styles (characteristics of homosexuality).

Fact 2: Homosexuals tend to like colorful objects that have more of a rounded look than a boxish look.

Fact 3: Homosexuals are more interested in the aesthetics of the equipment in relation to the rest of their environment, rather than the actual FUNCTIONALITY.

Fact 4: The fact (3) that homosexuals are more interestested in the look of the equipment, rather than the functionality can be proven by the fact that they do not have time to learn how to operate complex things like Windows or UNIX. This is because they spend 95% of their time having their asses pounded doggy-style, not to mention the disgusting cleanup of fecal matter required after each sexual encounter.

Well there you have the facts. Should you buy a Mac? You decide.

I will never buy a mac as long as they.... (0, Flamebait)

AssFace (118098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218887)

...keep doing annoying shit like that one button mouse. I would have gotten a cube, but I hate the mouse and the OS, then they basically made a cool X windows system and I was willing to get a Ti laptop - but the motherfucking one buttong mousepad on it, no way in hell I will ever get anything of theirs no matter how shiny it is until they do less retarded ergonomic shit. they claim they are innovative and doing things to better ergonomics - bullshit - they are doing it for the sake of being different. fuck that.

Reasons I haven't considered Apple yet (1, Troll)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218892)

1 - Confusing interface
2 - One Button Mouse
3 - Customization and configuration is hard to grasp
4 - Expensive Hardware
5 - Apple is unpredictable
6 - Proprietary platform
7 - OS X is kinda slow
8 - I don't like Steve Jobs (I gotta be honest)
9 - We've heard about Apple treatening many Open Source projects (ie. Themes.org OSX theme)

ugh (1)

Inferno666 (568675) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218898)

I really don't think anything would convince me to ever buy a Mac. They are always claiming to be twice as fast as equivelent PC processors but if you look at the notes to it it's always only in a grafic app like Photoshop. The whole 1 button thing makes me sick. There's no upgradability, and everything loox like a hippy made it. Did anyone else almost throw up at the site of the WinXP default GUI cause it was like you were using a mac. User Friendly style is what Macs seem to be all about but they still leave everything all inconvenient. Scroll bars that don't even adjust themselves to the distance in the window to scroll. And software everything, special>>eject CD special >> eject disc. Special >> give me a second mouse button cause i want to see the properties for this stupid file that doesn't even have file extensions... invalid operation. Apple i shake my fist at thee, don't try to infringe on the PC market with your stupid Hippy cases and GUI's.

Answer: CPU + GPU + developer support (1)

Random Man (209046) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218910)

I went into an Apple store, got a console window, brought up emacs. Could have ssh'd to my home machine. I love it. But no Mac for me until it has:
  • G5 CPU - coming soon, so no problem.

  • A cutting edge GPU. Come on, every developer knows the 4MX got a "4" purely for marketing purposes. Where's the NVidia 4Ti?

  • Developer support for that GPU. Where is the support for GL extensions documented? Where is the "how to make games look amazing on the Mac" document? Every paper at GDC talked about WGL extensions - that's Windows GL, not Apple. Apple is fumbling badly here. I want to know there will be support for me if I choose to make the Mac my development platform.
If Apple could truly make the Mac a platform for cutting-edge development they would have me, since developing on Windows sucks.

Granted, they seem to actively support Carmack. But what about the rest of us? (BTW, I doubt the Mac would even have a 2/4MX or ATI mobile Radeon if it weren't for Carmack, so thanks, John.)

My letter (1)

shed (68365) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218913)

Tell me what you think, here's what I sent:
___________________________________________ ____
Regarding your query at http://www.apple.com/hardware/pcusers/, re: If you're a PC user who's eyeing a Mac, we'd love to know what you're thinking.
I probably fit into another category altogether, that of the macintosh apostate considering a return to the fold. I've wanted to write something like this for the last year, but only now do I have the time to do so.

Having used a Mac plus and then a IIsi in college, I preoordered one of the very first powermac 6100s. I was a Mac loyalist, through and through. But when win 95 was introduced, it became harder and harder to justify the instability of the mac operating system or the high cost. God Only Knew when OS X, nee Taligent, nee Pink would be released. It seemed pretty clear that I could do more on a pc, for less, suffer fewer system crashes and play more games to boot.

Don't underestimate the value of gaming.

Anyway, the truth is that I've been eyeing getting a mac since OS X was released for the desktop. I'm a unix fan and I love the aqua interface. I'm fed up with Linux on the desktop and have been impressed with friend's powerbooks running OS X. So, here's my current assesment, bullet by bullet:

PRO getting new Mac
* OS X - it's unix! It's easy to configure! It slices *and* dices...
* Aqua interface
* new iMacs and titanium power books are cool looking
* It's not microsoft
* Prices are more reasonable than ever

AGAINST getting new Mac
* fewer games
* slower - and don't give me garbage about the "megahertz myth." Sure, it's true that mhz isn't a great measure of efficiency across architectural platforms, but any techno weeny knows that it isn't irrelevant either. The latest P4s are much faster than the fastest G4s in both standard integer and floating point operations. Now on the other hand, is it important? Probably not, an 800 mhz or 1 Ghz G4 is still plenty fast for everything a person actually needs to do and even gaming.
* Unless you get the expensive tower, no upgradeable video. The GeForce 4mx is basically a souped up 2mx, much slower than the true GeForce 4 and soon to be outdated. On the other hand, an outdated unix box still makes a great server.

Altogether I think the pros outweigh the cons, I'll probably be buying one in the summer. Now iMac or Powerbook...

My 2 cents for what it's worth (4, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218916)

The following is the text of my comments to Apple, so you guys can think what you will of me. On your mark, get set, MODERATE.......

Well, I guess you guys are getting lots of e-mails, having this comments page being slashdotted and all. Your plan to get people to buy Apples works great, or at least it did in '92. That's when me and my twin brother bugged the hell out of my parents until they bought me one. They got me a LC II, which has worked flawlessly to this day (with the exception of having to replace the clock battery, but what do you expect from a 10 year old PC). Sure it's slow, it's 8mb of ram is funny, and I can't help but crack up thinking of it's HUGE hard drive, we went for the 80 meg! Lately, I've been taking apart EVERYTHING in my house, and I have to say that the design of the LC IIs case is amazing. I also recently bought a PowerMac 7200 off E-Bay to put Linux on, and it's a great PC too. The case looks like it would be very elegant too, that is if UPS didn't dent the hell out of it in shipping.

Well, on to the topic at hand. I am defiantly a geek. Once I got more experienced in computers, I fell in love with PCs for a few different reasons. For one thing, there were more games, although that is SLOWLY changing. The really big thing that I liked was the fact that I could control the PC completely. Back then, PCs ran DOS and 3.1, so there were config files everywhere, you could change anything. Now, with OS X, things are basically even, but that's one reason I switched over. Also, I just love command line interfaces, but that too has changed.

Well, onto the present. Last summer my brother (who has used PCs for a long time too, but always loved Macs, more openly than me I should say), bought a PBTi. I have to say that I was amazed at the thinness of the thing. I also love that glowing apple logo on the screen, and of course, the screen it's self. It's quite zippy, and it's really nice. I only have three major gripes with it: no 3D support (but with the new ATI Mobility Radeons, I'm sure that will change), only one mouse button (I won't be buying a Mac Laptop without this getting fixed), and they keyboard seems a little bit flimsy.

Apple has done some strange things over the years but I do have a few suggestions for you. First up is OS X. It's a VAST improvement over OS 9, and you guys finally have a modern OS. I love the fact that it's built on Unix, so it has a CLI and everything. It think that you guys finally have a major opportunity. If you were to ship OS X for PCs, then I think not only would you be a formidable foe for MS, but I'm sure there are many out there who would switch (like me). Since the kernel is open source and already compiles in x86, you'd be sitting pretty there. Next up is Aqua and Carbon, which shouldn't be too hard to get running. Also, if you figure that out of the serious users (like me) who are likely to be early adopters of such a product, the vast majority would have either a ATI Radion (or better) or an nVidia GeForce (or better), drivers should be easy, especially since they would be nearly direct ports of those on the Mac. That's another point, I'm glad that you guys have switched over to PCI, AGP, and other standard interfaces from the PDS slots, NuBus, and other oddities of Macs of old. If you switched, you would get more hardware, and you could get ports to the Mac and PC fast.

My seconds suggestion is obvious and I have already stated it, GET MORE MOUSE BUTTONS. Back in the early nineties, one mouse button worked fine, but today, I seriously doubt that anyone who uses a mac for anything more than e-mail is using one of your one button mice. I know that my brother keeps a MS IntelliMouse Explorer USB plugged into his PB all the time.

I know that I had a third suggestion for you, but for the life of me I can't think of what it was. So I guess I will just leave you with this: I've been using computers nearly daily for the last 10 years, more than half my life (I'm 18). I am currently in the process of getting a BSCoE from KU. If there is ANYTHING that I can do for you guys (product testing (new iMac, HINT HINT HINT)) just e-mail me and I'll be glad to give input, answer questions, etc.

PS: I just remember the third thing! Don't you hate it when that happens? I love the hardware you guys have been making lately. I would kill for a Cinema Display. I wonder if contract killing pays enough? Oh well, I also have to say that if you would get your computers (or at least the higher end ones like the G4s) to use ATX cases, you could make a ton of money selling them. I would LOVE to be able to buy a White and Grey G4 fold out case for my PCs. The G4 cube was neat looking (but expansionally flawed), the new iMac looks cool (and will hopefully drive down the price of LCDs), the iMac was quite compact (though I am still annoyed by that "let's produce everything in 12 neon colors" concept that every company latched onto after the iMac went big. Let's face it, no one needs a neon pink surge suppressor and a neon green monitor), and like I said before, I love that Cinema display.

Who's going to read it? (1)

marktwain (523893) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218917)

Clicking on that link launches your email client with an email addressed to apple@apple.com. Now I wonder how many such emails are going to even get read, let alone considered? PR ploy on behalf of Apple. Maybe they have a BOT set up to "thank you for your input." When the day comes that a corporation the size of Apple really listens to consumers....... many seem to think feedback on the Public Beta of X brought about change. But that "feedback" and "feedback" since then only counts, like it does to your elected crook politician in Wash. D.C. when there's enough heat (numbers) applied.
PR move. What if Apple gets a thousand requests to run Windoze on the Mac or port OS X to X86 chip, you think that's going to change anything?

you read my mind (4, Interesting)

White Shadow (178120) | more than 12 years ago | (#3218919)

So, I'm about to graduate and get my undergraduate degree in computer science and I thought that a nice graduation present would be a laptop. However, I'm torn between getting a Mac for the first time or sticking with a PC. Here are the reasons that I want to get a Mac:

* They're sexy. Apple's industrial design team is brilliant. The iBooks are small (very important) and stylish.
* OS X - FreeBSD is my OS of choice for servers so I see it as a major benefit that I can run (some) BSD applications on an iBook with no major problems. For example, XFree86 makes X11 forwarding over ssh very nice and stable.
* iPod - it's a sexy mp3 player and I want one (yes, I know there will probably be a good PC hack soon, but native compatability is comforting)
* Diversity of machines - I already have a desktop running Windows 2000 and another headless server running FreeBSD. I don't really need another Windows box or a FreeBSD box so having a Mac laptop allows me to run Mac software.

However, I'm still hesitent for the following reasons:
* only one mouse button - I know that's a silly reason, but I get confused about how to do things that require a second or a third mouse button on PCs
* learning curve - I spent about 90 minutes yesterday trying to get enlightenment to install on OS X yesterday. it would have been a simple "make && make compile" in FreeBSD.
* price - It seems that I get more bang for the buck with PCs. If nothing else, I can shop around for a PC and I have few choices with Macs.

So, I'm still undecided, but leaning towards buying a PC, mainly because of familiarity. Anyone have any suggestions?
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