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Microsoft To Start Running Anti-Unix Ads

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the our-burgers-are-better dept.

The Almighty Buck 1133

PhreakinPenguin writes: "According to this article on News.com, Microsoft and Unisys are preparing to pay for a slew of ads to 'undermine' Unix with the theme of 'We have the way out.' They are apparently hyping that Unix is an expensive money trap. One ad states, 'No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever.' Unisys is apparently putting up $25 million and Microsoft won't say how much they're chipping in but you can bet it's more than Unisys." As the article notes, this comes after floundering attempts to sell (through Dell, Compaq and Hewlett-Packard) the high-end Unisys machines pushed by these ads.

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Yo ACs! (-1)

trollercoaster (250101) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247201)

Eat a dick. You too UKians.

Re:Yo ACs! (-1)

Ralph Malph Alpha (551824) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247252)


"Yo"....now that's a word with IMPACT!

Don't forget to mention.... (-1)

cyborg_monkey (150790) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247257)

What a cock-gobbler Ralph Malph Alpha is! The Council recently discovered that (s)he is a 34 year old living in basement of the parent's house (unbeknownst to them). Every day on assorted blogs, like this and k5, (s)he post the kind of blather that makes a retard look intelligent.

He also goes by the name of LittleJohnny, Turkish Delight and MCA.

perplexed (2, Insightful)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247205)

Doesn't Microsoft already own enough of the world? You think they could leave UNIX geeks alone.

Re:perplexed (1)

Clived (106409) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247264)

Oh well, more FUD from the Microsoft bunch. I guess considering the crappy performance of their servers in the marketplace, they now have to bad mouth the competition. Maybe if they focussed on improving their products, instead of resorting to slander, they would be perceived as the world class company that they aspire to be.

My two bits

Re:perplexed (2)

2cool4school (569274) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247320)

I think Microsoft more or less have to do this kind of negative advertising. With Linux already popular and going from strength to strength and now the Mac is essentially a UNIX machine the OS world is a very different place from just a couple of years ago and it must feel like half the hardware and software companies in the world are ganging up on them. Now who's painted themselves into a corner? Microsfoft is looking (and behaving) like a trapped animal. Watch those teeth! Arrgh!!

Re:perplexed (5, Insightful)

Interfacer (560564) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247299)

Some facts

- in the REAL world, no one should be left alone. you must be the best to stay on top.

- heavy duty servers will not be replaced by MS. Windows servers simply cannot handle the load, let alone be secured decently

- MS servers are ideal for file print servers and simple user management and file/ print servers. that is why you see a lot of mixed environments unix-NT

- the customer does not give a fk about kernel architecture. he just wants easy to manage GUI.

- geeks are the minority.

Re:perplexed (5, Interesting)

Creepy (93888) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247321)

This is nothing more than an attack on M$'s server enemies, Sun and Oracle. I'm sure some guys in a boardroom looked at a piece of paper that said they only own 60% of the server market and asked "Why do we not own 95% of this market like we own 95% of every other market?"

There's nothing illegal here, they just look at where they can expand their revenue like every other corporation in America. There's big money in the server market - when I worked in that industry 6-7 years ago, a M$ server with MS-SQL (bundled, the only way you could get it, which might still be true) cost about $10000 for the low end machine. That was basically a version of Windows with an unlimited connection license and MS-SQL on a fairly mediocre machine. Hardwarewise, I'm guessing about $2000, so that's $8000 in software and profit, most of the development of the OS software was paid for in the consumer version of Windows, so either MS-SQL cost a lot to make, or some hefty profits were being made.

Re:perplexed (5, Insightful)

gstevens (209321) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247347)

Unfortunately, they aren't advertising to the Unix geeks -- they know we know better. Unfortunately, they're advertising to our bosses. That's the problem.

Expensive experts (3, Funny)

tangledweb (134818) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247208)

I'd rather pay for expensive experts than hand over $4 for a six pack of MCSEs.

Re:Expensive experts (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247237)

Six pack of MCSE? What kind of beer is that? I bet it comes with a guaranteed hangover!

Re:Expensive experts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247335)

No, it comes with a handgun revolver and one bullet.

Re:Expensive experts (0, Flamebait)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247262)

Agreed. Now most of you know I like MSFT Windows [and defend it often].

These 2wk IT classes and MCSE [and other certs] type of people are a real pain in the arse though. The problem is not really MSFT's since even if UNIX or Linux in general became the popular one you'd see 2wk IT classes for LCSE people [or whatever].

The solution if you are a CS student [even just at heart] really is to distance yourself from these people. Discourage people from taking the courses and naturally do preferential hiring for real CS types [even if they have less shinny resumes] over IT people.

IT people are not real computer scientists. They just want to learn enough to point and click and then think they are experts.

BOYCOTT I.T.!

Tom

Re:Expensive experts (2, Offtopic)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247340)

you're playing with fire when you say IT people aren't real computer scientists ;). flames aside, having been employed in the IT industry for over 5 years, i'd have to say that most IT people are real computer scientists. the information system _users_ on the other hand are not.

it's not typically the computer scientists (IT professionals) who decide a shop is going to be a M$ shop, but rather a middle manager who knows that no one ever got fired for choosing M$. that manager also probably knows that the skills to work in and maintain the M$ environment typically are at a lower rate than that of the skills found in a UNIX shop. (compare a VB developer salary to a UNIX C/C++ engineer, hell, compare a M$ C++ engineer to a UNIX C++ engineer).

as i mentioned else where, unix is about scalibility and flexability. when an information system starts to push a sun box to the limits, there's nearly always a bigger, better sun box one waiting to migrate the system to.

Re:Expensive experts (2, Interesting)

NightMgr (569769) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247286)

I'm a "expensive expert" for unix. I spend about 30 minutes a day total, monitoring my systems. The rest I spend helping my windows brethren handle all of their issues. Especially the weekly patches, reboots, service stoppages, and so on.

Re:Expensive experts (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247346)

I'm an "expensive expert" for Windows. I'm currently sitting on my @$$ reading /. and looking at zero helpdesk calls because I maintain my servers and desktops in proper fashion. No weekly patches, reboots or service stoppages in my area. I truly feel sorry for you if your Windows brethren are so incompetent.

No such thing as a cheap expert. (4, Interesting)

nahtanoj (96808) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247210)

Either you pay someone who really knows what they are doing well for the job, or you pay some jerk who only thinks he knows what he is doing next to nothing. Guess which one costs you more in the long run. Why don't businesses look to the long run? (I really want to know)

nahtanoj

Because no one sees "long run" (2)

barzok (26681) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247241)

Let's face it, everyone wants to see the results now and get their work "done" - if that means having to scrap and rewrite a system 2 years from now, they don't want to hear it. We'll deal with it when that time comes in 2 years. And in 2 years, we'll again build a throw-away, far-from-good solution and start all over again.

And with the people controlling the money not listening to the whys and hows that get them into the predicament (and forgetting what they decided last WEEK, let alone last YEAR, that put them there), you're pretty much stuck dealing with the cheap route all the time.

Re:Shortsighted Corporations (2)

sam_handelman (519767) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247315)

Because their investors, which generally include the upper management, don't intend to hold onto their stock for the long run. They want to make a quick buck selling it, or recover a quick profit from destroying the company. Obviously, this isn't always true - Microsoft looks to the long run, for example :(.

Personally, I think this is a really stupid ad campaign on MS' part. The only thing I can think is they've deluded themselves into believing their product is somehow superior. I suppose there are a few people, who think (or hell, maybe they can) that they could maintain an MS server themselves but couldn't maintain a Unix server, who might fall for the line, but not very many.

Re:No such thing as a cheap expert. (4, Funny)

Patrick May (305709) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247330)

Why don't businesses look to the long run?


In the long run, we're all dead. -- John Maynard Keynes

I wonder if we'll see them on slashdot (1)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247211)

Since we've all seen the ads for Visual Studio.NET. Heh, money buys anyone, no matter how biased.

Oooh, I'm scared (5, Insightful)

xZAQx (472674) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247213)

Nice business practices, MS. You'd think you could prove that your product is superior through example, not slander. If these ads are half as bad as they seem, I say IBM starts making commercials full of BSoD's and says explicitly: "You will never see a blue screen of death with Unix".

Re:Oooh, I'm scared (-1, Flamebait)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247256)

I never see a blue screen of death on Windows 2000. What is this you are speaking of? I wonder if you can call a Kernel Oops-Panic a 'Black Screen of Death" cause Linux isn't just creative enough to use ANSI colors on the terminal when spewing out error messages.

Re:Oooh, I'm scared (1)

Corporate Troll (537873) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247331)

Bluescreen under W2K, easy: I swapped the places of my Adaptec 29160UW SCSI card and my 3Com Network card (don't remember the model). Just swapped slots, nothing more. Next bootup: nice little bluescreen. Luckily, restarting a second time passed. Nice side effect: Windows 2000 thought I installed a second network card.

Oh, and the Linux partition made no problem of it at all. Last time I saw a kernel panic was when I tried to install RedHat on a Pentium Pro (back when the PPro was brand new) and it didn't recognise *any* of the hardware.

Re:Oooh, I'm scared (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247293)

You mean like the top three database performance [tpc.org] records on TPC [tpc.org] ? Or all of the top ten performance to price ratio records [tpc.org] ? Unisys' ES7000 DataCenter server, which is a single 32-CPU Pentium Xeon machine is taking on machines with twice as many CPUs (the top performer in the non-clustered arena is a Sun StarFire with 128 CPUs.) This machine is also fully load-balancing and failover clusterable, although Unisys has not posted any benchmarks of that kind of setup. The system is powerful, and proves itself. In order to even participate in the program Microsoft requires Unisys to guarantee to their clients 99.99% system availability.

BSoDs? Kernel panics.

Re:Oooh, I'm scared (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247337)

How about the fact that it has been proven that M$ rigged the tests and applications to obtain those top three database performance ratings at tpc.org (tpc said so and removed them at least once). And everyone is stomping on the StarFire, IBM's regatta also used 32 CPU's against it and came out even better than the ES7000. They haven't posted the failover stats because they are horrid. There have been only a couple of hundred ES7000's sold, they tried to sell us one and said that no one was buying a second system. Soooo....

Re:Oooh, I'm scared (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247323)

I say IBM starts making commercials full of BSoD's and says explicitly: "You will never see a blue screen of death with Unix."
OK, so anyone interested in actually doing this ad and then distributing it as widely as possible? The beautiful thing is that we (and the PHBs) are the target audience, so for once, it ought to be easy to design something perfectly geared perfectly to whom we want. Take the following script:

Closeup of worker sitting down at Windows NT workstation. Cut to Start button just as mouse moves over it. As the mouse clicks, the monitor goes blue. Cut to geek face, frowning, bluescreen reflecting off glasses. Cut to monitor displaying the bluescreen with the standard text, but in place of the Ctrl-Alt-Delete: "You are currently losing $10,000 per minute during server downtime. If you had purchased a Unix solution, you would not be having this problem. Have a nice day." or something to that effect. Cut to black screen, with text: "Isn't it time you got a Unix solution?" and then at the bottom list various Unix companies (Sun, Apple, Red Hat come to mind immediately).
So, I've got a copy of iMovie; someone's got a video camera. Anyone for doing this?

Re:Oooh, I'm scared (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247327)

IBM starts making commercials full of BSoD's and says explicitly: "You will never see a blue screen of death with Unix".
Nah mine are all white text on a black background with "kernel oops" outputted to the screen. Still the same amount of unintelligable crap on the screen tho in both cases.

requires you to pay for expensive experts (5, Insightful)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247214)

another case to reinforce my belief that "you get what you pay for".

at least they have the integrity to call us experts. unix information systems are all about scalibility, and flexability. VMS is all about uptime, uptime, uptime. and M$, they're all about GUI administration and a corporate name that matches the email/office suite the VP really likes to use.

Re:requires you to pay for expensive experts (1)

TheCaptain (17554) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247251)

I actually kinda liked that part...."expensive experts". On the way to work on the radio this morning I hear the advertisement they air the death out of claiming how the average salary of a microsoft certified systems engineer is so high, and that I should buy into their classes to get certified.

They are burning a candle at both ends here....

what's the big deal? (2, Insightful)

RN (21554) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247221)

all advertising is done to "undermine" your competition and toot your own horn.

how many anti-ms ads have we seen from apple, sun and countless others?

i would say move along, nothing to see here.

Re:what's the big deal? (2)

jeffy124 (453342) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247277)

how many anti-ms ads have we seen from

I think that's the point. We havent seen many. IBM probably comes the closest with those commercials "can we implement this with what we have?" and "we moved everyting to that one" and "we've been hacked", but they never refer to Windows directly.

Re:what's the big deal? (1)

Blikkie (569039) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247344)

>>how many anti-ms ads have we seen from

>I think that's the point. We havent seen manyWe havent seen many. IBM probably comes the closest


I think you forget the (brilliant) apple advertisement that simply stated CONGRAT~1.W95

Sincerely,

Remco

Re:what's the big deal? (1)

meggito (516763) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247310)

The big deal is that the vast majority of people bleive what they see on tv. Most people are very persuaded by advertisements, and with nothing argueing the other side many people will take an anti-*nix stance on the subject. Most people running servers know better, the problem is their CEOs don't. And when they see these ads they may, or may not, say 'Hey, Unix bad! Windows cheaper.... Buy Windows!' or some similar CEO style talk and force the guys who know better to switch over. The other area this would hurt is the Linux desktop everyone's been pushing for. It may not happen anyway (I don't see why not, but there seems to be some consensus here) but this will be one more obstacle in its way. Mass media is not something that should ever be taken lightly. Even you and I are affected by their marketing schemes, as much as we would like to beleive otherwise, we just don't know better. I sure hope something can be done, but I can't imagine what. Maybe false advertising charges with some good proof?

Re:what's the big deal? (1)

looseBits (556537) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247338)

Yeah, look at Oracle. Did you know Oracle runs n times faster on IBM platforms than DB2? Also, you can use Oracle to make your Exchange server unbreakable?

Every time I see stuff like this, I know a company is getting worried but in M$'s case, what are they worried about? The people who really like UNIX systems a caffine-swilling, hex-editing uber geeks. Their bosses all prefer the nice pretty 'How do you want to connect to the internet' wizards.

Fortunately in the occasional IT shop, the boss may actually listen to the caffine-swilling, hex-editing uber geeks but with the economy the way it is, I fear more and more of these highly trained sysadmins will be replaced by their IT Technical Institute MCSE counterparts and we will see more and more 'How do you want to connect to the internet' wizards.

(Q) How many Windows (tm) boxes does it take guarantee 5 9's?
(A) How much floor space you got?

Inflexible? (5, Funny)

larien (5608) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247222)

Hrm, if Microsoft is 'flexible' it explains how their head got where it is.

Shamelessly ripped off from Dilbert.

Educate the decision makers (3, Interesting)

crumbz (41803) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247224)

Enough. It is time for all persons who work in IT to start educating. How can you justify any ROI on Microsoft products vs. Unix unless you are depreciating the entire system in three (3) years. Most *nix systems are inplace for an average of 8 years (Gartner Group). More FUD from Microsoft. It's a shame because I really liked AoE when it came out....

LIke this wasn't expected.... (5, Funny)

erobertstad (442529) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247226)

It would be nice to see Sun and IBM, etc.. to start running some straight on anti-microsoft ads. I do like Sun's comment

"As for Unix being 'inflexible,' 'expensive,' and 'complex,' we feel those are terms much better suited to the closed and proprietary world of Windows."

Now if they will only put that into an ad of their own, that whole reply, sums up this marketing campaine very nicly.

Why Unisys? (1)

Night Goat (18437) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247227)

Could someone explain to me why Unisys is siding with Microsoft on this? There has got to be some back story I'm not aware of.

Re:Why Unisys? (2)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247245)

I believe Unisys is one of the companies that sells the huge 64 way x86 boxes that Windows 2000 Datacenter runs on, and thus is directly competitive to UNIX big iron.

Re:Why Unisys? (5, Informative)

larien (5608) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247311)

Close enough; they sell a 32-way system, but not very many of them. See the links in the main story for more info.

Large servers are where Windows has never done well; Wintel scales up to 4-way reasonably easily, 8-way at a push and 16-way is very rare. 32-way is only available from Unisys, and from what I've heard, there's some klunky stuff in the background to make it work.

Compare this to Sun/SGI who have had >=64-way for years without any kludges to make it that way. A Sunfire 15K with 72 processors handles pretty much like a 2-way E220R.

Microsoft tried to sell Unix too. They failed. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247229)

Remember XENIX anyone? In fact, until Caldera bought out SCO, Microsoft used to own part of it. Does Microsoft own Caldera stock now? Wouldn't that be ironic.

Warren Postma

Meanwhile, at Redhat..... (2)

mickwd (196449) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247234)

sed -e '/Unix/Microsoft/' < Microsoft.ad

Microsoft MAY have a point... (5, Interesting)

Maddog_Delphi97 (173780) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247235)

If you're talking about an older version of UNIX tied to a specific vendor, Microsoft MAY have a point... but the little secret that Microsoft doesn't want you know is that Unix in general is becoming more open-source AND is becoming more of a commodity rather than a specific that runs only on specific hardware.

I guess what I'm saying is that Unix is losing more and more market share to operating systems like Linux. (Linux is NOT unix, although it's quite similar) This is especially true administrators (rather than corporate commitees) get to pick the operating system to use.

A good case in point is the market share and mind share of Solaris and Linux. Sun Microsystems just recently released the source code of Solaris under a "community license" (which is NOT the same thing as GPL, but it's the best we can expect from Sun Microsystems). Did Sun have to release the source code? Not really. But it knows it would lose MORE mind share to Linux if it didn't.

Who will they rip off? (1)

aurorascope (466416) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247236)

Seeing as how Microsoft's .NET advertising campaign was a blatant rip-off of IBM's infamous blue horizontal bars.

I wouldn't be surprised if you see a Microsoft software box in a completely white studio with the camera shooting it from all angles, and a fashionable tune in the background (Apple).

Re:Who will they rip off? (2)

TheGreenLantern (537864) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247261)

No, I heard they're courting a bunch of retired NFL stars for a football-themed commercial.

Never heard of a Mac? (5, Insightful)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247238)

MS can crow all they want that Unix is hard to use - and I might have thought so, until I used OS X. Great GUI (needs some tweaking, but hell, what doesn't), start ssh, ftp, and Apache with a click of the mouse, and you can go configure the .conf files if you want - or if you don't want.

Yes, Unix is inflexible. That's why open source Linux runs on nearly every piece of hardware you can find. I use it for my Day Job web/general Unix servers, running on cheap desktops or expensive rack mount units.

Consultants are expensive. I can actually go out and buy a book on Unix, then look at the source code of FreeBSD, Linux, Darwin - and change things myself. Oh, good god, adduser is so hard to figure out.

Oh, yeah. Unix is so hard. Especially when those blue screens of death pop up that interfere with my work or those proprietary API's that I can't get all the info to, and - oh wait. Unix doesn't have that.

that's a huge strategic mistake (1)

dario_moreno (263767) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247240)


the only way to survive in a market
where you are not the leader is simply
to deny the existence of others...
it fools the ignorants and might help
gain market share. I do not think
those ads can convince seasoned professionals
with years of UNIX/big iron mainframe
experience (admittedly hard to setup, but runs
for ever afterwards) to switch to windows
(just the opposite).

Re:that's a huge strategic mistake (1)

erobertstad (442529) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247301)

That's a good point. Up to now, Microsoft keeps saying that Linux/Unix is not a threat to them, and have just played dumb and ignored them. Atleast now, it's starting to show that they are getting scared and are going to show it.

But what these ads are going to be for, are the newbies trying to setup a network. I can see it now:

Me: We'll go with a cluster of Unix boxes for your project.
Client: No, havn't you heard about that Unix inflexible system, we should go with Microsoft!
*sigh*, another day, another MS machine to format.

MS Ads (1)

psycht (233176) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247242)

In recent news..

Microsoft will be promoting themselves by purchasing the poster line by Despair, Inc from think geek [thinkgeek.com] .

Hrm (1)

rmadmin (532701) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247243)

Maybe they should put in their adds that 'Any monkey can run a win2k server'. Obviously they would leave the part out about 'But those servers will get 0wned by some retarded worm, and if you want your box as secure as a unix box, you gotta pay loads of money for a MS expert... since.. an expert is an expert, and they are expensive.' Its sad. Thats all I have to say. But the fun part is, I'm diehard. No matter how much money MS dumps into advertising, they'll never get me. I'm only 1 person. But.. Still, atleast they won't get 'everyone'.

Sorry Bill, you can't get your monopoly on me, cuz I just don't like your shit.

Re:Hrm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247306)

>Maybe they should put in their adds that 'Any monkey can run a win2k server'.

Typo there - 'run' should be replaced by 'ruin'

Money trap? (0)

brechin (309008) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247244)

They are apparently hyping that Unix is an expensive money trap.

I thought M$ software was the biggest money trap for businesses? Let's see: $100 for the OS, $500 or so for Office... Maybe RedHat should run some ads saying they have the way out. At least RedHat lives up to the claims M$ is making.

Re:Money trap? (-1, Redundant)

LinuxHeadMN (457423) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247260)

I just love this quote from Sun.

"As for Unix being 'inflexible,' 'expensive,' and 'complex,' we feel those are terms much better suited to the closed and proprietary world of Windows."

I want to put that in my .signature.

Old news (0, Offtopic)

Hemos (editor) (569506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247246)

Timothy,

monolinux [monolinux.com] posted this yesterday [monolinux.com] .

Please stay more up-to-date with the articles that you post. Thanks.

FUD (2)

llamalicious (448215) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247247)

Yes, more FUD. Coming soon: FUD in your SPAM.
Between Intel and Microsoft, I'd have to say the two companies do more negative campaigning in the business world in one year than most local, state or federal politicians do throughout the course of an election.

So, what's the solution? 3 options.
  1. Prove their negative campaigning is defamation, or is putting out untrue statements/accusations. (See- truth in advertising)
  2. Stoop to their level, and get some Unix/Linux companies out there spreading their own special FUD sauce.
  3. Just plain prove them wrong. (Oh wait, we shouldn't have to do that. But we do.)


Windows Is Dying (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247250)

It is now official - Netcraft has confirmed: Windows is dying

Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered Microsoft Corporation when recently IDC confirmed that Windows accounts for a declining fraction of all Internet servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that Windows has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Windows is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be Kreskin to predict Windows's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Windows faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Windows because Windows is dying. Things are looking very bad for Windows. As many of us are already aware, Windows continues to lose market share. The green ink from declining sales flows like a river of blood. Windows XP is the most endangered of them all, having lost more of its core developers than any other operating system.

Due to the troubles of Microsoft, abysmal sales of Windows and other products and so on. Recently, Slashdot reported a possible removal of Windows from the market by Microsoft. This only serves to confirm the fact that Windows is unwanted, doomed to be passed around like a harelip orphan from one foster parent to another.

All major surveys show that Windows has steadily declined in market share. Windows is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Windows is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. Windows continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Windows is dead.

Fact: Windows is dead

I love it (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247253)

Clearly MS feels increasingly threatend by Linux. The fact that MS feels compelled to run such ads says much more than the ads could ever say.

hurrah for microsoft! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247255)

If microsoft and these other companies had their way, everyone would be running their OS's and there would be millions of MCSE's around and actual knowledgable people will be *out* of demand. If that trend begins, you'll see your $75k->$100k+ salary drop down to about $34k.

Ok, I'm gonna switch (2)

chrysalis (50680) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247258)

If Unix sucks, I'll switch to Linux.

Singling Out Sun (1)

PhreakinPenguin (454482) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247265)

I would say this is a continuance of their pissing match with Sun. The one thing I would have to disagree with is the part that says you have to hire "expensive experts". If a company is looking at running *nix full time, they already have the experts in place. The only time we ever hired outside people to come in is when we were stacked to the rafters with implementation items. Hell, we just bought Office and Windows for a client the other day and the cost for 20 each was around $10,000. And that was for all Windows upgrades, not even the full license. They could of bought a nice server with that kind of cash.

It's all about perspective (1)

The Wooden Badger (540258) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247266)

"It requires you to pay for expensive experts." Then there's the Micro$oft alternative... Pay more money for our latest incarnation of buggy OS. Then there's our office suite that just happens to cost more than just about every other office suite on the market put together. Hmmm...

Counter Ad (3, Insightful)

clark625 (308380) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247267)

It shouldn't take IBM, et al, long to start running ads that show an MS-only shop having all the boxes go down simultaneously. Then, the CIO goes looking for who can get things fixed, he can only find clowns in the IT department saying "maybe we should just hit all the reset buttons." Maybe dressing the fools up like clowns would make the point that much better.

*sigh* Everyone knows you get what you pay for. Expensive employees generally pull their weight. A clown that only knows MS products isn't much better than a trained monkey.

Of course, I think MS has a place in businesses--just like *nix. Companies really should diversify their operationing systems so that they can take full advantages of each. MS Win2K just isn't as good of a webserver, for example, as many of the *nixes. And a Win2K Server is nice for tying together a bunch of Windows workstations. Exploit the advantages of each.

Re:Counter Ad (5, Funny)

Gid1 (23642) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247304)

It shouldn't take IBM, et al, long to start running ads that show an MS-only shop having all the boxes go down simultaneously.

... hopefully accompanied by a massive thud as all those flying Windows XP people drop from the sky.

Re:Counter Ad (2)

medcalf (68293) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247351)

IBM could score big cool points by running an add that shows dozens of Intel-based servers running Win2K or whatever, talking about how many web servers, ftp servers, domain controllers, and so forth are there, along with a bunch of MCSEs to run them, and then panning over to a single RS/6000 or SP system with one admin, and using a tag line like, "Just because you can buy a machine cheaply, doesn't mean you can do business with it."

We'll still use unix for webservers... (5, Interesting)

AVee (557523) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247271)

Netcraft [netcraft.com] says:
The site www.wehavethewayout.com [wehavethewayout.com] is running [netcraft.com] Rapidsite/Apa-1.3.14 (Unix) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a on FreeBSD [freebsd.org] .

Re:We'll still use unix for webservers... (1)

PhreakinPenguin (454482) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247287)

Classic....just classic

Will this work? (2, Insightful)

zyklone (8959) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247272)

I wonder, does this kind of ad really works?

I thought that it was generally believed that everyone immediately sees through "we-will-help-you-get-away-from-evil-competitor" ads. Giving the viewer the completely wrong impressions.

But on the other hand, Unisys and Microsoft. They are not exactly known for caring what the customer thinks as long as they pay.

*unisys*? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247273)

well, having used it, i can see where *unisys* unix could be a money trap, but... why in the world are they teaming with M$?

Show me... (1)

SirNAOF (142265) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247274)

It's great that they have such a wonderful campaign going...can they show me something to back up what they're saying?

When you show me a Windows server that has an uptime of over 650 days, I might rethink my position.

Expensive Experts vs Monkeys (2)

wo1verin3 (473094) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247275)

-->> It requires you to pay for expensive experts. --

So MS would prefer the usual and currently employed monkeys run servers as opposed to an expensive expert.

It's expensive for any GOOD expert. It just happens cheap self made experts have read the windows help file and aren't familiar with the man command.

grrr

False Advertising! (1)

qurob (543434) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247279)


They're gonna get sued anyway...

Lock and key (3, Interesting)

Craig Maloney (1104) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247282)

If any businesses have the ablity to lock you into a platform with little choices, it's gotta be Unisys and Microsoft. I guess Unisys must be hurting since their major revenue stream, the LZW patent, is about to expire.

Oh, and if hiring a sysadmin is expensive, I guess they haven't taken a look at the going rate for MSCEs lately, have they? Just because a 15 year old kid could administer your machines for Mountain Dew and Pizza doesn't mean you should run your business like that.

I wish someone like IBM or Solaris would do a similar ad against Microsoft.

Heh (2)

sinserve (455889) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247285)

I know how much Unix paid for an anti M$ ad campaign.
$5 subscribtion to slashdot.

--

"Expensive Experts" (5, Insightful)

casio282 (468834) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247289)

The thing that struck me most was this concept of "expensive experts." I could easily see them expanding this campaign by inserting adjectives like "condescending", "difficult to communicate with", "obnoxious", and even "completely other, alien, and kinda creepy." These are all representative of the impression regular folks seem to have of the sysadmin, from what I can tell. As opposed to the impression of your average MS-savvy (love those two words together) "computer guy" who helps get you back on the network or shows you where your downloads go.

Maybe the bearded ones need a PR campaign.

This won't work. (5, Insightful)

Spencerian (465343) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247295)

For Microsoft to build a campaign against UNIX would be like Coke or Pepsi promoting a campaign against the evils of water.

UNIX is the backbone of the Internet. It started with university and military computers, and is still based on these technologies. It has spawned many successful clones and variants, including BSD, Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris, IRIX, and many more. And virtually ALL of these versions work well together and can exchange code.

Not that this is surprising, but Microsoft is arrogant to point of giving the finger to God. This is really a sign is disrespect for everything built over the years by the blood, sweat and tears of the first network pioneers.

Unisys sounds like it has little to lose since it's been sitting on its corporate butt so long that even the oldest of us have forgotten what they've recently done in the computing world.

I'm not making a righteous stand for just the UNIX world. Microsoft is really a company with poor ethical practices and should be recognized as such.

Microsoft could have it all by realizing that practically all its major competitors have a UNIX base in their OS, even Apple. Instead of fighting the UNIX family, they could cash in simply and easily by moving the Windows NT/XP base to a true UNIX base, and create (the usual closed-source) apps in UNIX versions that can be compiled for virtually every UNIX family OS. (Not that everyone would want the apps, but at least it would be there..)

But NOOOOOO...

I was ranting on how OSS was too disorganized to fight MS in certain market attacks--that OSS lacks a defined leader. This instance is an exception. There are plenty of corporate makers and users of UNIX who might jump on the big MS "screw you" bandwagon and even pump up some cash in the corporate and legal system to get MS to shut their corporate pie hole.

Pissing off the U.S. Government is one thing. Pissing off other big businesses is quite another.

perl can save this story... (2, Funny)

vreeker (264162) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247297)

my $bs = "No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever";

$bs =~ s/unix/microsoft/i;
$bs =~ s/complex/nonsense/i;
$bs =~ s/expensive/clueless/i;

print $bs;

barking up the wrong tree... (3, Interesting)

f00zbll (526151) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247298)

Microsoft's tactics for consumer products works well because most people don't give a hoot about the guts of a particular technology. The enterprise world is totally different. There are still tons of old main frames running the most critical applications. If I was a CTO of a financial institution, that would make me laugh. The reason it's still used isn't because it "ties me to a platform." It is because the damn thing has been running with minimal downtown for a long long time. Given that my windows crashes every week or so, instead of 10 times a day, I wouldn't even consider using windows in the back office applications. Not when the PC world is just starting to get into the high reliability, fail over world of enterprise computing. When you're pushing millions of dollars around every hour and billions every month, screw windows.

Not only is it the wrong tactic, but it will hurt them in the enterprise services world. There's a reason the stock market uses Sybase ASE and not sql server. No matter how much money microsoft puts into getting high TCP numbers, real DBA's know the difference. Here's to hoping microsoft continues this line of advertising and continue to shoot themselves in the foot in the enterprise services world.

What the hell?! (1)

EvilNight (11001) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247303)

"They are apparently hyping that Unix is an expensive money trap. One ad states, 'No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever."

Ok, this kinda floored me. Those are the EXACT SAME REASONS we DON'T love Microsoft where I work. Hello Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

Well hey, if they are ramping this up and spending that much on advertising, it means Linux has them running scared, and that is a good thing.

iNIX? (2)

whyde (123448) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247305)

Perhaps Apple should respond with a series of ads touting the strong, robust, reliable, EASY-TO-USE Unix underpinnings of Mac OS X, and how they've bet the company on it...

Perhaps they should re-brand it as "iNIX"?

how to respond (2)

I Want GNU! (556631) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247307)

Has anyone seen those RoadRunner ads where the Internet is mad slow under dialup? Sun should have some kind of ad where some guy is really stressed and grabbing his hair and it zooms in on the screen saying "Your computer has crashed. Send $1000 to Bill Gates, 1 Microsoft Way, Redmond WA and we might consider fixing it in ten years."

Then again, to acknowledge M$ gives them a tint of credibility. Funny that MS can't compete on its own merits.

Unisys hardware married to shitty software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247309)

Interesting relationship between Unisys and Microsoft. Unisys makes decent hardware, but that's not what their technicians must think. For over a year, I have seen DLT tape drive failures on a pair of servers and they replaced the tape unit several times, with new overnighted internal/external scsi configurations.

These parts swapping techs swore it was never a software failure. I guess ordering parts was easier than solving the impossible glitch of the backup software. Oh, was I tempted to take one of these perfectly good 80GB tape drives home for my use.

'Slew of ads' approach -- been there before? (1)

LittleGuy (267282) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247312)

Oh, the possibilities.

* Rachel Leigh Cook wailing on a server with a frying pan, screaming about security holes.

* Unix Sysadmin: "I help sponsor terrorism. Hey, it's OpenSource software."

* Dying rat crawling out of a server room, warning about second-hand coding.

Say what? (2)

st0rmshad0w (412661) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247316)

"It requires you to pay for expensive experts."

I see, like those MCSE's that they claim earn an average of $80k a year. Hmmm. An AVERAGE of $80k doesn't sound that inexpensive to me.

Especially since most of the ones I've run into know little to nothing about computers. We actually hired one (don't ask me why) who didn't know you could hook up a printer thru a zip drive, I wish I were making this up.

Sounds like MS is experiencing a panic attack of some sort.

Microsoft learining something (3, Insightful)

FatRatBastard (7583) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247317)

I think Microsoft has begun to learn a little about high end computing. Remember a few years ago when all the trade rags were writing Unix obit, claiming MS was going to eat their lunch with cheap high end WinTel boxes (of course, MS [like any other company] were feeding this line of bull to everyone).

Well it looks like MS have learned there's a reason that high end, rock solid industrial strength computing isn't cheap. You can't just bung Windows on commodity hardware and expect it to 24/7. So the advantage that MS had at the departmental level in the past (cheaper and easier to use than its competitors, lest we forget that that was a major selling point of Windows in the 90s) it doesn't have on the high end. Unix is entrentched and competative price wise. MS are going to have a VERY HARD time eeking out market share at the high end. They'll have some successes, but the world will not be running on MS Big Iron any time soon (if ever)

Don't knock it before you try it (1, Troll)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247324)

As a professional physicist, let me tell you I spend a lot of time in front of a computer console writing papers in various markups, solving equations and running simulations. Because of this, I well know the need for a powerful CPU and flexible OS/software to match.

That's why I choose Microsoft Windows for my computing work. The easy setup and configuration let me get right to work and the cross-platform standardizations let me easily port my work for colleagues. Furthermore, the highly-optimized nature of the Windows Operating System Kernel makes for blazingly fast simulation runs even on the low-end hardware that my University is willing to pay for.

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux. The quirky command-line interface makes me nostalgic for my days as a student using fun but non-standard packages like LaTeX and gnuplot. But when I want enterprise-level support for my physic-al work, I always choose the software that I know won't let me down.

Expensive Experts? (2, Funny)

caldroun (52920) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247326)

Apparently MS doesnt know thier own pricing for calling thier Tech Support with an incident?

This is Great News! (2)

johnnyb (4816) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247328)

Microsoft, previously, has been in the position that they didn't have to compete with anybody. In fact, if you look at all of their advertisements in magazines, you see that they only refer to themselves when trying to pump one product over another (NT vs 95). It seems that now they are facing competition that just isn't moving, and they are having to actually face that competition.

It puts them in a position of weakness, not of strength. This ad campaign will do more for UNIX than it does for Microsoft, because Microsoft will have to admit that it is facing competition, and UNIX is being chosen by experts. This will be the biggest blow to Microsoft's corporate image in many years.

It requires you to pay for expensive experts... (2, Funny)

Gilmoure (18428) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247332)

as opposed to expensive idiots?

Whatever MS does...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247333)

Whatever they do, MS and UNISYS will not be able to stop the impending UNIX explosion. I run an ISP - and to the surprise of our customers we don't run ANY NT servers. A lot of businesses that host with us want to publish with frontpage, we tell them that we don't run NT/frontpage becasue of Microsoft's poor track record. We tell all out consulting customers the same. In fact we use the bridge anlogy.

Suppose you have to build a bridge. Two ntrepreneurs come to you.

One says:
I will build your bridge. In order to prevent anyone from sabotaging your bridge, by exploiting design flaws, nobody sees these plans.

The other entrepreneur says:
Here are the plans to your bridge. 10,000 engineers have seen the plans to this bridge. Any problems were corrected, and 10,000 engineers looked again. You can check that your bridge matches these plans. If it doesn't suit your needs, you can change it. 10,000 engineers will help you.

Now, I have two questions:
1) Which bridge would you buy?
2) Which bridge would you drive over when it is built?

I say " I'd trust something that has been looked at by 10,000 people to trust my data to, What about you."

That changes thier minds right away :-)

This was a no brainer. (2)

MongooseCN (139203) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247334)

MS Marketer 1: Hmm we need to come up with lots of ideas that make UNIX look bad.
MS Marketer 2: I know, lets take all the customer complaints about Windows and replace any mention of Windows with UNIX.
MS Marketer 1: Brilliant! No wonder why we get 6 figure salaries.

I don't mean to be vulgar but... (0)

rambot (466616) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247336)

FUCK MICROSOFT!

Everybody knows that in the server market, MS can't compete. What they had better realize is that the end is near. I and several of my computer literate friends have all recently started migrating to different flavors of linux as desktop machines.

The thought of .NET and my machine becoming essentially a terminal on a "pay to play" network is truly frightning. The complete arrogance that MS has begun to show, despite there battles with the justice system, should really be an eye opener to most of us passive types.

When Win2k gets shelved, there will be no windows OS on any of my machines. You want to talk about being painted into a corner!! Oh sorry, no VNC for you. You like your corner? Its over 70 times more stable than before! Blue screen, blue screen, blue screen. It's time to take that paint bucket and throw it at bill just like a coconut creme pie.

Exit strategy [ Linux ]

Time frame [ ASAP! ]

What is wrong with their idea? (2, Insightful)

line-bundle (235965) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247341)

Do you people honestly expect them to cheerlead for unix. They are a business for crissake and unix is their arh-nemesis.

And advertising does work. That is the only way for people to know you exist (at least in a competetive commercial environment).

Someone should make a Parody Reply Ad series (1)

qweqwe (104866) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247342)

Someone should make a Parody Reply Ad series. The parody ads could also be called "We have the way out," and describe NT as an expensive trap. "No wonder NT makes you feel boxed in. It increasingly ties you to an inflexible Microsoft-only system. It requires you to pay for expensive team of constantly paged MSCEs. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex and non-Microsoft specific than ever," one ad can read.

Have fun with the parodies!

http://www.wehavethewayout.com/ (2)

sinserve (455889) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247343)

The site has a couple of PDFs .. ahem, I think I will
need an hourly wget/cron job, ahem ;-)

--

re: Expensive Experts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3247345)

Yeah, we may be expensive experts, but at least we're experts! How does M$ explain the overpriced consultants we had to hire to install Exchange and OWA even though we have an NT staff?!

And as far as being painted into a corner, when is M$ going to start supporting email clients other than Outlook? How about opening up doc and xls formats so others can develop software that will accurately and reliable read and write the files?

Bah.

The campaign website runs FreeBSD (4, Redundant)

semis (14252) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247353)

This is amusing.

Check out www.wehavethewayout.com [wehavethewayout.com] - the official campaign site. It runs FreeBSD!
According to netcraft
The site www.wehavethewayout.com is running Rapidsite/Apa-1.3.14 (Unix) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a on FreeBSD.

Check out the netcraft results here [netcraft.com] .

New Server Ads: You need this to run 2K (1)

Slashamatic (553801) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247356)

On a similar theme, I have noticed some new ads for high end servers from Dell etc., emphasizing that their servers are very reliable (they are) and thus ideal for running stuff like Exchange Server 2000.

I once has the misfortune to play with an Exchange Server 2000 system that had run out of disk space. The much vaunted storage system for the Exchange Server database was dead and unrestorable without hitting the last full backup.

Yes, you need good hardware to run a Win 2K enterprise system because if it goes down, you can easily stand to lose a lot. On open source systems, you at least have a chance of fixi ng things.MSDN is a great resource but it comes nothing as good as the support that you get with having source code so you can hunt around datastructures.

Methinks MS/Unisys are getting worried!!!!

Same price either way (1)

elsegundo (316028) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247357)

As a consultant, I'm equally as expensive whether you run a *nix shop or a MS shop.

Hmmmm...Pot calling the kettle black?? (2)

moonboy (2512) | more than 12 years ago | (#3247359)



It seems to me the new free UNIX and UNIX-like OS's are the true way out. Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc. All run very well (arguably better than MS products) on inexpensive Intel x86 hardware. They also run on the current higher end 64 bit platforms (Sparc, Alpha, Itanium) and will run on the newer 64 bit procs from AMD. Incredibly flexible IMHO.

Sure, maybe proprietary UNIX on big iron is slowly being replaced, but free and open source UNIX/Linux will be there to take its place.

A lot of the selling points that MS is focusing on in the ad campaign actually speak better for the free/open UNIX and UNIX-like alternatives than of MS's own products.

"No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in (Microsoft licensing anyone?). It ties you to an inflexible system (ahem, Microsoft?!?). It requires you to pay for expensive experts (MCSE |= EXPERT). It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex (Microsoft - The epitome of complexity) than ever."

Well, they've sold me. I'm sticking with Linux! :-)

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