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ATi's All In Wonder Radeon 7500

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the build-yer-own-tivo dept.

Graphics 297

FlippedBit writes "ATi has released a very affordable All In Wonder product based on their Radeon 7500 chip. For a mere $200 smackers you can get decent 3D graphics, TV Tuner, TiVO functions, and a remote that will work from another room with no line of sight."

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fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3283907)

fp I am so happy!

Muslims firebomb UK Holiday Resort (-1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283925)

News coming through. Muslim terrorists (aren't they all?) have attacked the futuristic Center Parcs holiday resort in England. For those who don't know, Center Parcs was renowned for being a high-tech self-enclosed 'domed' environment where geeks and their families could enjoy their holidays without suffering the inclement british weather.

Clearly these Islamics have no shame, choosing to attack FAMILIES staying at this place over the Easter holidays. The murder count has yet to be revealed, but initial estimates look grim.

Re:Muslims firebomb UK Holiday Resort (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3283963)

Put up a link to a news site, or shut the fuck up. There's nothing mentioned on cnn or bbc.

Re:Muslims firebomb UK Holiday Resort (-1, Offtopic)

gazbo (517111) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283978)

Really? Was Stephen King inside at the time?

Re:Muslims firebomb UK Holiday Resort (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284063)

Those fucking mohammedians and palestinians. I swear they
are after the demise of western civilization. They will come
to us one by one, and try to break us.

First it was America and September 11th, now UK, then what? they
will take over Europe and continue terrorizing the US and infiltrate
its borders?

I really suggest we put an stop to this. Everyone should do something
about it. And oh yeah, let's not forget our brothers in Israel, for they
are suffering under the constant Islamo-racist terrorism.

Pledge your support for civilization and human dignity, and say NO to
the islamic invation of the west, NOW [iris.org.il] .

Not just in Israel (-1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284156)

Anti-Semitic fervour has hit Mainland Europe, especially France. Islamic terrorists have begun targetting Jewish SCHOOL BUSES and Synagogues in Marseille and Montpelier.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/news id_1910000/1910357.stm [bbc.co.uk]

Time and time again, we are shown the way of the Muslim. Destroy schools. Destroy places of worship. Never destroying military targets. Only civilian.

Re:fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3283960)

that there's one moderator about to be $rbtl'd

not for a while (-1, Offtopic)

WaccaWacca (547703) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283908)

really, a very very long time

problems with it... (4, Informative)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283912)

and it's not with the hardware but the software that gives you the TiVo like operation...

it doesn't work without a massive fight under windows 2000. it is the same software suite that comes with the TV wonder from ATI and their multimedoa center just sucks.

Re:problems with it... (5, Informative)

Brento (26177) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283972)

and it's not with the hardware but the software that gives you the TiVo like operation...

Well, my first problem is that this thing just isn't like Tivo. Tivo will automatically record your favorite shows no matter what the schedule is, which is great when you like stuff on TLC or History Channel that seems to air at random times.

Furthermore, Tivo is smart enough to record things it thinks you will like. This software is dumb as a rock - if I don't tell it to record something, it won't.

Even worse, the Gemstar Guide Plus software will only let you download 7 days of listings - you can't see further than 7 days out. That blows - I don't want to sit down every week and plan my next week of viewing, I want to do it maybe once a month. When I go on vacation, I can only record shows in the next 7 days - heaven help you if you're gone more than 7 days.

Last, and worst, it doesn't REALLY work with dual displays. If you have two video cards in your system, and the second one isn't ATI, the program won't launch. You have to disable the second desktop in order to watch TV. I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous.

Re:problems with it... (2, Informative)

fractalus (322043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284058)

Seems to me ATI hasn't really improved their software since I had the original Radeon All-in-Wonder. I had very, very similar problems with getting any of the TV features to work if I had a second video card installed and enabled. Turning off the second display was required to watch DVDs; to watch TV, I had to reboot and turn off the other video card with a BIOS switch.

I've since replaced the Radeon All-in-Wonder with a Radeon 8500, because I wanted better dual-monitor support. Silly me. DVDs can't play full-screen at all with two monitors enabled, the dual-display support is horribly quirky, and when I attempted to add an ATI TV-Wonder board to get back the TV stuff not available on the 8500, I discover the two just plain don't work together, locking the entire system in seconds. The few seconds I did manage to get the TV going (only once) the quality was distinctly inferior to the All-in-Wonder.

I've got too much money sunk into this stuff to go replace it right now, but I seriously doubt I'll be purchasing another ATI product in the future. Their drivers just plain suck, and their tech support (when they even bothered to answer my e-mail inquiries) assumed I was an idiot and gave me standard suggestions that I'd already tried (and I'd told them I'd tried, had they bothered to read the e-mail I sent).

Buyer beware.

Re:problems with it... (1)

jspectre (102549) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284094)

Just for the record, TiVo doesn't necessarily have more than 7 days out either. Most channels suppily information further out, quite a few don't, and I've quite often seen schedules a ways out change. I'm very glad TiVo updates their information (that's what we're paying for) but you can't set your TiVo up once a month to record shows for the whole month unles it's for regular things like series, etc. It will not get one-shot shows, specials, etc.

Re:problems with it... (1)

jlower (174474) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284141)

Add to the other reasons why this is not "like a TiVo" that the software doesn't manage how recorded programs are kept (ie - keep until I delete, keep until a certain date, keep a certain number of days, etc). Also, TiVo will record a show regardless of what channel it's on, and is smart enough not to record an episode that's been recorded in the last 30 days.

Also, TiVo lets me enter shows to watch for and record when and if they do show up in program listings (the Wish List function) - a feature I use a lot.
Having said all that, it does seem that cards like this are getting closer to the functionality of dedicated PVR's and I am delighted to see them catching up. I'm not in love with TiVo, just what it does. If someone finally does manage to do it better, I'll happily jump ship.

Re:problems with it... (1)

morgajel (568462) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284001)

I have had the exact opposite experience with it. it's a great piece of hardware... the tv capture quality is superb(all ATI's are as I see it, but my only comparison was to a voodoo 3 3500 which wouldn't let you resize the screen).

takes a while to switch mp2(the default format the vcr function records in.) other than that, it rocks. the new software is much more stable than my original all-in-wonder ve, which I got rid of due to an issue with my ali chipset(don't laugh).

make sure you get the updates software from their website. I'm running win2k solely because this card kicks so much ass under it. sound quality isn't too shabby either, except the line-in is a good deal quieter than wav on my soundcard, so switching on the tv requires boosting up the sound.... the ICQ goes "UH OH" ...and I piss my pants while spraying pop all over my screen.

I haven't looked into getting it to run under linux, but that'll probably happen when I switch over this summer. if anyone has some suggestions/sites to help me get it running as good under linux(debian) as it does under win2k, let me know.

Re:problems with it... (1)

morgajel (568462) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284024)

oops, on a side note, I got mine about a year ago with 32 megs of ram and without the remote.... which looks cool as hell.
I think I might give mine to my girlfriend ang get that one for me:)

Re:problems with it... (0)

liquidzero4 (566264) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284131)

I would have to agree. I just purchased the card on-line for 150 and Love it. Works perfect under 2000 and XP. Definitly worth the 150$.

no line of sight (5, Funny)

Skidge (316075) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283914)

and an IR Remote that will work from another room with no line of sight.

Great! I hate having to have line of sight when I'm trying to watch some TV.

Re:no line of sight (1)

jezreel (261337) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283933)

What about MTV? And muting the thing when you get a important phone call in the next room?
And think about some nice case mods maybe in the wall or otherwise hidden...

Re:no line of sight (2)

CodeMonky (10675) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283938)

I think his point is that you don't have to have the computer right next to the tv in order for you to output to tv.

Re:no line of sight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3283982)

no it means you dont have to point the controller directly @ the computer. I could point it in the opposite direction (opposite of line of sight) and it'd still change.

Re:no line of sight(it's RF not IR) (1)

bassrat (256831) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284007)

Can't do IR w/o line of sight. I looked at the article and its RF which will work anywhere with a given range.

Re:no line of sight (1)

mosschops (413617) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284023)

I hate having to have line of sight when I'm trying to watch some TV.

If that was a serious reply: It a big improvement to be able to put your noisy PC in a different room from the TV, and just run a cable from the TV-out on the card.

If it wasn't: heheh! :-P~

It's sometimes so hard to tell whether people are being sarcastic!

Re:no line of sight (1)

Skidge (316075) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284036)

Sorry, I forgot my sarcasm tags. :) It sounded much more sarcastic when I first heard it from the voices in my head. Maybe something got lost in the translation to text.

Re:no line of sight (1)

sinserve (455889) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284099)

That is specially true when I am watching Maurry, and a fat teenage
kid comes out in spandex, yelling "fu*peeep* Yall, you ain't getting this sh*peep*".

Linux? (2, Interesting)

L3WKW4RM (228924) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283917)

So does ATI release Free drivers unlike the NVIDIA hell I've been stuck with the last 2 years?

I wish it were easier to turn down hardware on the same issues we can turn down software, but it seems to be a sellers' market.

Re:Linux? (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283953)

Nvidia hell? My geforce 2 and 3 work great under linux. and (Gasp!) I dont even want the sourcecode. (I can hear the angry GNU/angrymob members already heading for my office with torches)

Nvidia released drivers that work... unless you have a desperate need for the sourcode to invent something... please quit whining about it.

NVIDIA vs. ATI (2, Informative)

Yohahn (8680) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284015)

NVidia's is like a bratty girlfriend:

When they are good, they are very very good.

When they are bad, they are rotten.

I've had the experience with NVIDIA drivers working perfect on one machine, and on another it randomly crashes all the time.

I just bought an ati7000 for building an audio machine (no emphasis on graphics) and the 3d accell worked alsmo outta the box on a debian "testing" install (I had to switch it so the agpart module was loaded BEFORE the radeon module).

I'm tired of reading about the people that have it work "perfectly" at the expense of those that don't. I've had it both ways, and I like the ATI way better.

(however the ATI drivers need to be labeled better, they refer to things like radeon VE, while consumers just know radeon 7000,7500,8500)

Re:NVIDIA vs. ATI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284065)

Radeon VE was the old name, they changed it to Radeon 7000, Radeon 32DDR is now 7200, 64SDR 7500. and the rest were scrapped afaik.

Re:Linux? (3, Informative)

anandrajan (86137) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284044)

While I'm not religious about open source, nVidia's drivers in combination with my AMD Athlon CPU and chipset have created numerous problems. For instance, X would randomly lockup leaving no errors in the logs AFAICT. In the end, thanks to the great documentation at http://www.gentoo.org/doc/nvidia_tsg.html, I disabled AGP entirely by using Option "NvAGP" "0" in XF86Config. Earlier, I had fought a losing battle - tinkering with the BIOS, messing around with agpgart etc. to no avail. Finally, I have a stable nVidia XFree86 configuration but it took a while to get there.

Re:Linux? (-1, Troll)

gazbo (517111) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284000)

Sorry to be so insistent, but when talking about the opperating system as a hole could you PLEASE referr to it as GNU/Linux. Although the colonel of the GNU/Linux system is called 'Linux' the colonel is just a small part of the whole thing!! Most of the work was done by Richard Stallman as part of his GNU [gnu.org] opperating system. Linus Torvalds took advantage of Richard Stallmans genorosity to give his opperating system away for free [gnu.org] .

Richard Stallman is not angry that GNU/Linux uses the software he wrote, because he is one of the hero's of free (as in beer AND speech) software. But he does get upset that he is not creddited for his work that is been used and most people would of been upset as well. Read his side of the argument here [gnu.org] . I didnt used to know about this untill I read that and now I know why he is upset and am trying to explain to people. Im sure you didnt know about this because no one writes GNU/Linux on ./ so PLEASE people read Richard Stallmans side of the story. This isnt directed at you on you're own but at everyone on ./ sorry if it sounds like Im having a go at you.

Re:Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284091)

Sorry to be so insistent, but when talking about the opperating system as a hole

No kidding. Do you know how much of my time has disappeared down into it? Years, at a minimum. At least it's not a money hole as well like Win or Mac.

Re:Linux? (3, Informative)

CynicTheHedgehog (261139) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284075)

ATIs policy is that they don't produce drivers for Linux. However, they have established a relationship with open source developers and provided all of the specifications for their hardware. It is my understanding that currently the Radeon series has good 2D acceleration in X, but the 3D acceleration portions (MESA et al) is still in the works. It will likely be month before we start seeing advanced features like the T&L they have been touting available for Linux.

Re:Linux? (2)

dinivin (444905) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284109)

It will likely be month before we start seeing advanced features like the T&L they have been touting available for Linux.

Or you could just head over to http://dri.sourceforge.net and discover that work as progressed quite rapidly on TCL support and decide to pull the tcl branch from CVS. The most people who test it and report back bugs the quicker the development will progress.

Dinivin

Re:Linux? (3, Informative)

banadushi_ (168358) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284129)

ATI does not support any of their consumer products under linux. However the GATOS Project [sf.net] supports most function under linux, including the remote.

Re:Linux? (2)

Exedore (223159) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284168)

I got this card for my new box (built it in late February). I haven't had the Win 2000 problems the poster in a previous thread mentions... works just fine for me. Radeon support in Linux has been a real bear though. It works okay with the frame buffer drivers, but zilcho otherwise. Supposedly works better with XFree86 4.X versions, but I haven't upgraded from 3 yet.

I haven't tried any of the Tivo-like functionality yet, but I don't really care much about that stuff. I got mine primarily for capturing camcorder videos to send to friends an family, and I'm pleased with it so far

I'd use the TV stuff more, but I don't want to drag cable accross the house to the PC... any suggestions for a good wireless solution?

Who needs 300 fps? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3283918)


Who needs 300 fps? The eye can only see 50 fps.

---
Yours sincerely
The "Who needs 300 fps? The eye can only see 50 fps." troll

Re:Who needs 300 fps? (1)

soulcuttr (555929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284114)

I don't know how true that really is. I remember reading about a study in which fighter pilots were able to identify the make of a plane flashed in front of them in 1/200 of a second. I wish I could pull up the link, but google's pigeons aren't finding it this morning.

-Sou|cuttr

200 smackers (0)

penguinfreedom (448635) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283922)

what if i've only got 200 smuckers?

not IR remote (1)

slashrot (564575) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283923)

Obviously, if the remote works outside of line-of-sight, it's not IR. In fact it's a radio remote.

Remote (1)

zerosignal (222614) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283928)

[quote]IR Remote that will work from another room with no line of sight[/quote]

That sounds like quite a feat... I wonder if they mean RF.

Re:Remote (3, Funny)

neonstz (79215) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283955)

[quote]IR Remote that will work from another room with no line of sight[/quote]

That sounds like quite a feat... I wonder if they mean RF.

They probably mean a giant chemical laser which in case of no line of sight just makes it. :)

RF Remote (3, Informative)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283940)

The remote uses (RF) Radio Frequency, not IR (InfraRed). IR has to have line of sight. That's how it can go through walls.

I have an old Dish Network receiver that uses an RF remote. It's great if you're listening to the CD channels piped through a home speaker system, and you want to change the channel blind (like you have the channel order memorized) but besides that it's worthless because you can never buy a replacement remote or integrate with a decent home theater controller. Of course there's a guy on the net selling an IR "upgrade" kit.

I.R. in the loosest sense of "below the red" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284117)

Well, the RF spectrum is definitely a longer wavelength than the visible spectrum, so in the very loosest definition of InfraRed meaning "below the red", I guess you could say that the remote *is* IR :-) :-) :-) :-) {lotsa smilies}

Re:RF Remote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284120)

Maybe they mean hyper-infra red. Gamma rays ought to make it into the next room where the noisy PC is.

Re:RF Remote (1)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284147)

For about $30, you can sort of give an IR remote the ability to work through walls. There are various manufacturers. You get one device (usually cone-shaped) that receives your IR signal and transmits it over 900MHz. The other device gets placed near your TV, receives the 900Mhz signal and converts it back to infrared.

My SO & I use one to control the cable box in our living room from the bedroom. In turn, we have a wireless AV transmitter beaming the cable box signal into the bedroom. It's received by an AV receiver that gets plugged into the TV's rca jacks.

Re:RF Remote (2, Interesting)

elhondo (545224) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284185)

I have one of these too, and live in a townhome community. Unfortunately, they seem to be pretty common in my neighborhood, and the working through walls, and around corners feature can be pretty irritating at first. I would actually get into channel changing "tug-of-wars" with an unseen neighbor. Had to keep my phone line disconnected for fear that he would order pay per view movies, etc. I ended up using an IR remote on my current box for this reason (yeah, I know you can change the signals... but there are a lot of dishes in my neighborhood....).

Oddly enough... (3, Informative)

Akardam (186995) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283941)

I was just telling a customer that I didn't know of any easy way (read: my grandma can do it way) to turn his PC into a TiVo-like device. Looks like this might be it -- shall have to do some more research when I get to work.

On the other hand, while I think that the price is great for what you get on this card, we've sold AIW cards for less than that before, so I'm not sure I'd mark it as "affordable" for someone who wanted just a "basic" AIW card. Still, a damn cool looking card.

Re:Oddly enough... (2, Redundant)

Brento (26177) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283988)

I was just telling a customer that I didn't know of any easy way (read: my grandma can do it way) to turn his PC into a TiVo-like device. Looks like this might be it -- shall have to do some more research when I get to work.

Let me save you some time - the only way this thing is like Tivo is that it can pause live TV, and it can record to a hard drive. It can't recommend shows you would like, it can't automatically record your favorite shows no matter when they air (like History Channel or TLC specials that change times on a weekly basis), and it can't view TV schedules more than 1 week out. I've had the AIW Radeon for about six months now, and I still want a Tivo.

Re:Oddly enough... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284016)

For Windows users

SnapStream [snapstream.com]

Linux support (1)

Gernot (15089) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283942)

What about Linux support for 3D and video ?
Does it provide an OpenGL and Video4Linux interface in Linux ? Otherwise I'm not interested (as if that matters ;) )

Re:Linux support (2, Informative)

Doom Ihl' Varia (315338) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283979)

The Radeon line is works under Linux as do most ATi cards. The cooperate with open source developers to produce open source drives. They provide full documentation and say "have fun". ATi developers are free to help out in their spare time and in fact if I'm not mistaken, do.

Re:Linux support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284106)

There is OpenGL support for Radeon and Radeon 7500 is in XFree86 4.2.0, (4.1.0 also has this but it doesn't have the pci id of 7500, works on normal radeons). However the TCL features of the radeon line aren't in this driver, but there is a developement branch in dri cvs (tcl-0-0-branch) that has it.

As for Radeon 8500 support, I don't know the status of that, there are rumors that ATI would be working on this and would release them with a similiar system as the Matrox drivers.

As for Video4Linux, I'm not sure if it supports 7500 yet. It's maintaned by the gatos project.

GATOS [sf.net]
DRI [sf.net]

IR remote that works with no line-of-sight (3, Funny)

hillct (230132) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283944)

an IR Remote that will work from another room with no line of sight."
Uh, would that not be an RF remote? Or parhaps you were going to an iMAC motief in your house, with the translucent walls or something...

And yet.. (1)

13Echo (209846) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283946)

Slashdot still won't post any PowerVR related articles that I write.

IR remotes (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3283948)

AlL YoUr RaDeOn ArE BeLoNg To Us!!!

A Tivo? Hardly (4, Informative)

rosewood (99925) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283949)

I have been using this AIW Radeon as well as the old AIW Radeon for a long time now and it is no where near the TIVO status. Why? I hate to say it / point out the obvious -- ATI's Drivers and Software suck. They are the major suck. Until 7.6 came out, when you fast forwarded you had no idea how many seconds / frames you skipped and it was never consistant. Also, pausing (the greatest TIVO feature imho) often causes crashes, as does pausing then playing then FF over comercials or slow parts. (This comes on a win98, win2k, and winxp boxes all that w/o TV card get months of up time, and the crashes are clearly TV card related). Their guide software, although free, is worth what you paid for it. Its total poo - and it takes forever to upload it.
Also, recording on your PC from VCR (home movies anyone?) can be a real bitch if you dont read the rage3d faqs.
The controls are also still very icky. The program scheduling and recording leaves much to be desired (if its going, thats all you get from your TV card - no way to record one show and watch another -- even if your machine has the horse power, this card does not). Then, to find out what show you have scheduled and whatnot, you have to find the tab in the options and thats a shitty interface to begin with.
Also, when you install the MMC7.x which is required to give you the drivers for TV overlay and the program to watch TV, you get all kinds of other shit and program association take over (you can say not to install the shit but then when you play back recorded shows, they dont show right a lot of times w/o the ATI File Player)

Simply said - the card may be good - but the software leaves much to be desired - and it is far FAR from Tivo quality atm

(Please in the replies, if you know of good alternative software let me know - same if you know how to more or less make something of a decent tivo clone using an AIW + Linux)

How is at MPEG capture? (1)

jcoy42 (412359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284019)

What I would like to find out is how well it does MPEG capture, meaning how fast a processor, how much memory, and how much disk do I need to convert 22 minutes of analog to MPEG. Does it encode on the card, or in software?

And does thier card work with other capture software, or are you stuck with what they provide?

One of the things that annoyed me about this card is it doesn't do duel-head. The Xtasy Everything seems to be a comparable device, but it also does dual head. But you end up with an IR remote & the encoding is done in software.

Re:How is at MPEG capture? (1)

bmooney28 (537716) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284098)

It has hardware MPEG2 compression, and does it on the fly quite well on my AMD 1.0 GHZ computer. I tend to record in VCD quality, though, which takes up 322 MB per 30 minutes. A 2 hour movie recorded in full DVD high quality (Mpeg2) takes around 3GB, although you could save a great deal of space converting it to Divx. If you want detailed Mpeg encoding information, email me at bmooney@**nospam**bigfoot.com and I'll be happy to give you additonal encoding size/speed when I'm at home (where the card is located)

Re:How is at MPEG capture? (2, Interesting)

fwankypoo (58987) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284140)

The All In Wonder 7500 Does great MPEG capture. It does MPEG 2 encoding and decoding on the card, so not only will it capture, but it helps you watch a DVD while doing all sorts of other things. The bottleneck here is your harddrive speed, you'll drop frames if the drive can't take all the data. But a modern IDE drive should do the trick.

As far as dual head goes, the main reason it doesn't have "normal" dual head (Analog and DVI outs) is a space issue, if you take a look at the back of the card, it's full with what it has (Analog inputs from CATV, Input for breakout box, outputs to breakout cable). However, it does allow you to run a TV and a monitor at once, so you can watch a movie on a tv with the thing and still surf on your monitor, if that's your bag.

Anyways, I have an AIW7500 as well, and I can say I'm much less dissatisfied than the grandparent.

Re:A Tivo? Hardly (2, Informative)

Denito (196701) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284030)

I have a Radeon All-in-one, and while I agree that the ATI software is not strong, I simply use ShowShifter [showshifter.com] for the TV stuff.

It is a great piece of software-- works really well on a regular TV as well.. combined with a logitech wireless keyboard and a B & O TV, and I'm a happy tv watcher.

It even recompresses your recordings in the background so you can do archiving of your sheduled shows..

Re:A Tivo? Hardly (1)

robdeadtech (232013) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284032)

Agreed. also, you can't setup a "season pass" where shows will be automatically recorded without you going in and selecting each show after your weekly download.

You also can't use this with a cable box as it, unlike the TIVO, has no way to change the channel on the cable box itself.

Also, the "keyword search" functionality where, say, you want to search on shows that have the word "Robotics" in the title and description also doesn't work. It does make a nice little recorder to record shows from your TIVO to VCD and if you don't have a cable box you actually get all your cable channels which helps.

Re:A Tivo? Hardly (4, Informative)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284054)

tivo clone... that's kinda easy/hard

a bt878 capture card - elcheapo is best.
a hollywood+ mpeg playback card.. dirt cheap on ebay... DO NOT PAY the $79.95 retail for these.. only complete idiots are trying to sell them for more than $45.00 I get the mall the time for $29.00 on ebay.

a old P-II machine and nuppelvideo for recording and mplayer for playback.

Add a web-based scheduler and you are done.. no you dont get pause tv, or the other fluff but you do get it recording your shows... showtime every friday at 1045pm est for 1 hour.. is not difficult to program

Re:A Tivo? Hardly (2)

weave (48069) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284121)

Hauppauge's WinTV with MPEG-[12] support isn't much better. The software sucks, my w2k box and later XP crashes a lot in ixvideo.ix -- in explorer of all things. I've updated their drivers and everything.

The mpeg-2 it produces is horrible too. It works fine with it's own video player, but using any other codec and it's "squashed" so I only record in VCD quality (mpeg-1). Even that is horrible. If I bring it into a video editing program like Cyberlink's PowerDirector, the audio and video slowly get out of sync. From what I can tell by doing google searches, it's because Hauappauge encodes some sort of proprietary sync markers into their a/v streams and other vendor mpeg editing tools don't grok it.

They did finally release an mpeg editing tool that just allows "cuts only" to edit out commercials, but it then re-encodes the entire file. I bought PowerDirector mainly because it doesn't re-encode the entire file and now it's all but useless to me.

So, in summary, their competitor isn't much better, if at all. The A/V capture market sucks it seems..

Good! (1)

carlosjordao (187667) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283952)

Now I can watch tv and use my computer
from my bathroom.

(sorry, i won't put my computer in the bathroom)

Re:Good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284088)

What do you think laptops were invented for? :)

Cheap whores (-1, Offtopic)

Pussy Is Money (527357) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283956)

Cheap whores for dumb geeks. Push button.

Re:Cheap whores (-1, Offtopic)

sinserve (455889) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284132)

*click*

In other news (1)

shaunbaker (157313) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283962)

In other news, slashdot's new "ad stories" have begun today featuring an ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder 7500 Video Card produced by ATI. As always, no actual fact checking was done to insure that this payed advertisement was actually factual and not missleading.

Information on this card... (1)

bmooney28 (537716) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283967)

First of all, it has been released for over a month... mine arrived in late February... Unlike a previous poster, I have had little setup issues with Windows 2000, although it is a tad on the quirky side. (A useful tip is to do a google search for "beta radeon drivers," where you can get the latest release of ATI's multimedia center that is considerably less buggy than the one that it ships with... The only issue that I have had with this card is that my "non-line of sight" remote only seems to work within about 5 feet from the receiver... (ATI's tech support has been no help with this issue either)....

I hate to point this out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3283973)

... this seems just like a very plain article just to get hot hardware some hits. A while back anandtech did a GOOD tv card round up (its outdated so I wont link it but you can find it in the anandtech.com archives). That was what this article was not. Also, the whole IR RF thing that everyone has pointed out ...

I've got this card (2, Informative)

prisoner (133137) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283974)

and it works really good (the remote is really well designed) with one or two exceptions that I was pretty much ready for: Using a TV as your monitor sucks. The text is unreadable, even set to a larger size. The TV picture in a window looks really clear on the TV and monitor. However, if you maximize the tv picture (when using the TV as your monitor), the resolution goes to shit and the TV picture isn't that clear. The Tivo software works good but the TV guide program doesn't seem to work with DirecTV but I haven't really tried hard yet. It was really easy to install on XP but under 98 (don't ask) it had serious issues which were probably related to the machine I was using.

Huh? (0)

Da w00t (1789) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283983)

How the hell does an infra red (which is light, remember) remote work from another room (eg, walls in the way) without any line of sight? The only way you can do that is if you have some sort of IR -> RF -> IR repeater somewhere inbetween, or use a RF remote.

Re:Huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284008)

40th post and the 40th person to say "How the hell does an infra red remote work from another room"

Fucking lame.

Re:Huh? (0)

liquidzero4 (566264) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284146)

Your right. The remote it comes with is and RF remote not an IR remote.

29. (-1)

GafTheHorseInTears (565684) | more than 12 years ago | (#3283991)

What concerns me is the psychological type of the Saviour. This type might be depicted in the Gospels, in however mutilated a form and however much overladen with extraneous characters--that is, in spite of the Gospels; just as the figure of Francis of Assisi shows itself in his legends in spite of his legends. It is not a question of mere truthful evidence as to what he did, what he said and how he actually died; the question is, whether his type is still conceivable, whether it has been handed down to us.--All the attempts that I know of to read the history of a "soul" in the Gospels seem to me to reveal only a lamentable psychological levity. M. Renan, that mountebank in psychologicus, has contributed the two most unseemly notions to this business of explaining the type of Jesus: the notion of the genius and that of the hero ("heros"). But if there is anything essentially unevangelical, it is surely the concept of the hero. What the Gospels make instinctive is precisely the reverse of all heroic struggle, of all taste for conflict: the very incapacity for resistance is here converted into something moral: ("resist not evil !"--the most profound sentence in the Gospels, perhaps the true key to them), to wit, the blessedness of peace, of gentleness, the inability to be an enemy. What is the meaning of "glad tidings"?--The true life, the life eternal has been found--it is not merely promised, it is here, it is in you; it is the life that lies in love free from all retreats and exclusions, from all keeping of distances. Every one is the child of God--Jesus claims nothing for himself alone--as the child of God each man is the equal of every other man. . . .Imagine making Jesus a hero!--And what a tremendous misunderstanding appears in the word "genius"! Our whole conception of the "spiritual," the whole conception of our civilization, could have had no meaning in the world that Jesus lived in. In the strict sense of the physiologist, a quite different word ought to be used here. . . . We all know that there is a morbid sensibility of the tactile nerves which causes those suffering from it to recoil from every touch, and from every effort to grasp a solid object. Brought to its logical conclusion, such a physiological habitus becomes an instinctive hatred of all reality, a flight into the "intangible," into the "incomprehensible"; a distaste for all formulae, for all conceptions of time and space, for everything established--customs, institutions, the church--; a feeling of being at home in a world in which no sort of reality survives, a merely "inner" world, a "true" world, an "eternal" world. . . . "The Kingdom of God is within you". . . .

News for forgetful Nerds (1)

deuterium (96874) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284002)

This thing came out last year.
They're really nice, though. I use mine to catalog the Simpsons and The Rockford Files on VCD. It does seem to have a problem with the pitch on the audio when recording to certain formats (like the ones I want to use).
The fact that I bought one explains their anonymity. I'm always one of like 18 people who buy my particular brand(s) of hardware, making support sketchy.

Radeons (1)

fabiolrs (536338) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284005)

I already tested many graphic cards available on the market. I found these boards (Radeons) somewhat easier to install but I dont know why it had some issues with some games I tested under windows. I never get the chance to test them under linux cause my linux box is already equiped with a GeForce mx400 and a voodoo 3 3000.

I tested a Radeon (but i cant remember the model anymore) board on a G4 Cube and it worked alright however gaming perfomance was not that high, I prefered the GeForce on that particular case.

Lets hope this brand new Radeon had some of it issues solved, Ill get a list of them when I get home and post it here so we can all discuss it.

Re:Radeons (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284164)

Ummm....

Talk to a programmer at a game company. ATI drivers don't always handle DrectX in a standard manner, leading to all kinds of nastiness.

But, OTOH, at least they aren't as suck as Kyro II based boards

Compaqs with Radeon 8500 All-in-wonder 128MB DDR (1)

Utopia (149375) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284018)

Compaq presario 8000 now come with Radeon 8500 All-in-wonder 128MB as an option. I have been contemplating getting one for some time. Can anyone tell me if it worth going for it. I mean what does the 8500 add which the 7500 doesn't have.

When I looked at the ATI website. They seem a new card called 8500DV with 64 MB DDR. What is the extra DV? Is different from plain 8500.
I will probably not be getting a new machine for the next several years so I want to get the latest and the greatest now.
Also I read somewhere that ATI would release the next generation of Radeon chip called R300 which is supposed to be GeForce4 beater. It would to be released it in August. Should I wait for it to be released ?

Re:Compaqs with Radeon 8500 All-in-wonder 128MB DD (2, Interesting)

Daniel_Carter (571116) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284051)

The Radeon 8500 is leaps and bounds better than the 7500, even in AiW form. THe 7500 is actually based on the Old radeon chip, but with a 0.15 micron build process that allows higher clock speeds. As for the DV, i assumed that the DV was the way that they distinguished the standard 8500 from the AiW. I.E, I thought that the all-in-wonder WAS the DV. If you are looking for performance Difference between the 8500 AiW and the 7500 AiW, I have to say that the difference is quite large. The 8500 AiW is better than the geforce 3 series in my opinion, and with all the features, a perfect all round card :). If anyone can indeed clarify the DV thingy, I also would like to be put right...

Re:Compaqs with Radeon 8500 All-in-wonder 128MB DD (1)

prisoner (133137) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284062)

I'm reasonably sure that the DV option includes firewire ports.

Re:Compaqs with Radeon 8500 All-in-wonder 128MB DD (1)

jimkski (304659) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284172)

You're right, I have the AIW 8500 DV and it does come with firewire. You should note that although ATI doesn't state it in any of their advertising, their drivers only support DirectShow and not Video For Windows. This might be an issue for those of you looking to use this card for video conferencing.

I tried this card (-1)

spork_testicle (449364) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284027)

And it fried my monitor!

Fucking hell. I was running Xfree86 4.2.0 at 1920x1280 with 31 bit color at 88 Hz refresh and it fried my damn monitor.

They should issue a warning with Xfree86 that it can fuck up your shit if you dont follow some arcane impossible to understand formula for setting up the syntax of the X11.config file or whatever.

Heheh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284034)

This glowing review brought to you by....ATI

A few issues for those considering this purchase.. (5, Informative)

bmooney28 (537716) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284039)

1. Not all channels seem to be supported by the Guide+ guide... (Oxygen, WB, and a few others in my area) (Note that you can still record shows on these channels, but you have to program it as you would a traditional VCR) 2. Recording quality is great, but when watching TV in "TV On Demand Mode" (where you can pause, fast forward, rewind, etc..) the quality card is less than perfect at lip-synch'ing... and this can be quite annoying. 3. You don't want to have your computer be doing much else while recording shows... (The card has often decided it was in my best interest to *not* record certain shows that I had earmarked...) 4. This card is designed to not record anything that has been protected with macrovision... (Some forum users elsewhere have reported success in bypassing this, though) All in all, I am very happy with this card, as I use it primarily to record shows when I'm not around for archival purposes. If you want perfection and true TV on Demand, I'd suggest TIVO instead...

Wait a minute... (1)

VistaBoy (570995) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284069)

This story sounds like one of those Slashvertisements (tm) that was foretold on April Fools Day! Oh, no! Now Linus is going to drop the kernel development and AOL is going to buy up people's blogs!

Remember, Drink Coca-Cola!

As if it wasn't bad enough.... (1, Troll)

telstar (236404) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284087)

As if it wasn't bad enough that we get advertisements in the middle of our articles ... now we get advertisements that actually ARE the articles. Way to go ... News for Nerds ... Stuff that Matters?

All in Wonder? Radeon 7500?! (-1)

NowIveSeenItAllGuy (236625) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284100)

Now I've seen it all!

TV Through Your PC (1)

Captain Large Face (559804) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284119)

This debate reminded me of this classic [theonion.com] .

You thought it was an April fools joke? (2)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284125)

When I critized Slashdot's move, some of you told me that it was an April fools joke. Well looks like the joke is on you.

And so, here's my opinion once again.

"I always thought that those ZDNet editors were pretty funny. The same guy who told us all to convert to MAC OS X last week will come back with a new article and tell us all how great Windows is then he comes back with another article and tell us how Solaris is amazing.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't want Slashdot to become that dumb. Unfortunately, everyone has a price, ironically we've even seen MS ads on Slashdot."

Not Ready For Primetime... (2, Redundant)

toupsie (88295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284135)

Where are the Mac OS X drivers? I have an Radeon AIW that works great with Mac OS 9 but is just a graphics cards w/ extra chips when booted Mac OS X. ATI is supposed to be one of Apple's good buddies but refuses to support Mac OS X 100%. That's why my money is starting to go to NVIDIA.

Wake up ATI and smell the Aqua!

problem with AIW's (3, Interesting)

Pfhreakaz0id (82141) | more than 12 years ago | (#3284136)

I used to have an all-in-wonder ATI card. Now I have a geforce and a separate winTV card. Here's my problem with it: When it's time to upgrade your 3d, you have to upgrade the whole thing. I do a fair amount of gaming, mostly sports and action, and while my old Geforce 2mx is great, I'm sure in a year or two I'll want to upgrade. By having the card separate, I don't have to worry. There is software (shapeshifter, below) that works as a "tivo like" thing.

That said, I'm thinking of building a dedicated "media server" box for my stereo. I have the old AIW pro laying around to use as a card, get a wireless keyboard and mouse and network it. Anyone else done this and have any advice (note: Don't bother with Linux advice. I'll run Win2k.)

The Radeon 7500 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284153)

I've got the Radeon 7500 plain, not the A-I-W version. It only cost me $80 (oem). It absolutely sucks, it's slow as hell, the drivers are the buggiest I've ever seen and the video quality absolutely stinks.

I think everybody should not buy them so they sit on the store shelves so long that they have to practically give them all away just to get rid of them. Then when that happens, I can go and get a bunch more of them really cheap ;-) Seriously, you can't beat the bang-for-the-buck these cards give.

Why I Don't Own A Mac by Corey Watson (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284170)

Apple recently put up a page asking PC users a question: "If you are a PC user who's eyeing a Mac, what are you thinking?" They provided a link at the bottom to send this feedback to them through email. Excited by the idea that Apple Computer, Inc wanted to know what I was thinking, I sat down to spill my heart to Jobs and Company.

First, some background: I'm a Programmer/System Administrator with a heavy bias towards Open Source software. I'm in my twenties, married, and I have a baby girl on the way. Now, with that out of the way, let's explore the reasons that I haven't purchased an Apple computer. I have a feeling that my reasons will coincide with many other PC enthusiasts.

First: The Pros
The hardware products that Apple offers have made many a PC user envious. The industrial feel and the welcome simplicity offer respite from the humdrum world of beige components offered by Wintel companies. Rather than force-feed us a single design, Apple offers the iMac for your average Joe and the Power Mac for the more demanding users. The same idea applies to laptops with the iBook and the PowerBook, giving us both ends of the spectrum. The fun doesn't stop here; Apple gives us the opportunity to adorn our desks with 23-inch flat panels, optical mice, wireless connectivity, and even matching speakers. With a booming PC modding market sparking a plethora of new PC products, Apple was obviously a step ahead when they released the first of these fancy computers.

MacOS X appeals to more users than any other Operating System to date. Based on Darwin, a version of BSD UNIX, OS X can run much of the same software that makes Linux so popular. This underlying UNIX-ness is hidden from the users with a rich user-interface that makes interacting with the computer a relatively easy (and beautiful) experience, unless you are hell-bent on using it the Microsoft way. I can sit at MacOS X and open a terminal (that's a window with a command line in it, save your gasps of horror) and feel right at home. I can use MS Office like most of the rest of the world, browse the Internet with Internet Explorer, and engage in any number of graphical doohickeys with relative ease. Then, when the newness wears off, I can revert to my roots and write Perl in Vim, compile my favorite C code in gcc, all while a DVD legally (no DeCSS kids!) plays in the background. This simply isn't possible to the same degree with any other Operating System.

Second: The Cons
Strike 1: Man, these things are damned expensive. Let's do an experiment. I'm at Apple's website, and I've selected a PowerMac G4 933MHz with a 60Gb hard drive, 256Mb of RAM, and a Super Drive (that's DVD and CD-RW people!). This is going to run me $2,299.00. At Dell's website (Dude, yer getting' a Dell) I can get a 1.8GHz Dimension with an 80Gb drive for $1,497.00. That's $800 dollars less for the same functionality, more hard drive space, twice the clock speed (I won't get into CPU architecture), and your required contribution to the Microsoft Empire in the form of Windows XP and Microsoft Works. You think that's bad? Without shopping around I can visit one of the many sites listed at pricewatch.com and build a badass custom system. In a single, no-shopping-around stint of 15 minutes I managed to 'build' a system that would blow the frilly socks off the Dell and Apple offerings for a mere $1,038.00. With shipping!

Strike 2: I don't buy computers anymore; I buy components. Next month I'll throw down approximately $200 and once again my PC will be ahead of the power curve. Some RAM and a new motherboard will revitalize any sluggish behavior I might be seeing, and open the door for future upgrades. The Dell PC likely allows for the same things, some RAM here, a new component there. The Apple PC offers very limited expansion, and certainly doesn't provide the ability to do what my off-the-shelf PC can. Apple's adoption of PC standards has helped this problem, but it also paves the way for a bigger step, which I will put forward later.

Strike 3: When is Apple gonna learn that John Q. Public has figured out that the more megahertz you have, the better your PC is? Sure, you and I might understand the differences in architecture, but average people don't -- and won't -- care. Massive campaigns by i386 vendors have pounded the idea that MHz == performance directly into the quivering gray mass of America. 'Velocity Engines' and supercomputer claims don't hold water with anyone except the people who've been forking over their money to you for years. I've never used a Mac that felt as fast as my Intel clone. (Unless it ran BeOS) MacOS X is a huge upgrade for the Apple faithful, but unless you fork over the big bucks for their best hardware, you are stuck watching those fancy graphics hog your CPU.

Third (and Finally) What can they do about it?
I'd go out right now and spend market value for a G4 ATX style motherboard. My PC133 SDRAM will work, as will most of my components. Then I can run MacOS X. Finally, after a whole year of admiring that snazzy OS I can finally call it my own. Perhaps there will be some driver issues, but I'm confident that all my hardware is high-quality and of national name brands. Given a large enough customer base, most manufacturers will produce drivers.

Why hasn't Apple they done this already? I don't think Steve Jobs is concerned with Apple making money -- excuse me, 'increasing shareholder value'. I think he's burnt that NeXT never made it big, and he's showing the world that Steve bygod-Jobs was right. How else can you explain his $1 annual salary? Apple's board recently gave him more options, but you know this cat ain't hurtin' for the bling bling. He runs Pixar, damnit! He's living a dream, running a huge company his way and the world is applauding his work. I'd love to have an Apple, but I ain't got the dough. I'll stick with my PC for now, Steve, and I'll keep admiring your wares. Maybe someday I'll have enough disposable income to throw away on your fancy computers.

What (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284177)

is a dollar smacker?

If ATI sucks, what is good? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284181)

I'm running W2K SP2 and already have a Matrox G550 - I want something "like" Tivo, it doesn't have to have ALL of the features, but high quality video is a must(no 320x240 capture). Obviously it has to be PCI rather than AGP - I only know of an older ATI card that has some of these features. Any Ideas?

Yasser Arafat, terrorist, dead at 54 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3284183)

I just heard the sad news on talk radio. Palestinian terrorist Yasser Arafat was found dead in his West Bank home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him -- even if you weren't suicide bombed by one of his terrorist minions, there's no denying his contributions to international terrorism. Truly a modern-day icon. He will be missed :(
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