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Learn About Ximian and Gnome From Nat Friedman

Roblimo posted more than 12 years ago | from the one-of-evolution's-creators dept.

Ximian 204

This week's interview guest is Nat Friedman, co-founder and vice president of product development for Ximian. Nat is also co-chair of The Gnome Foundation, and an all-around nice guy. Post your questions (one per post, please) for Nat below. We'll forward 10 of the highest-moderated ones to him, and will post his answers (verbatim except for HTML formatting) within the next week.

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

first (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343625)


Re:first (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343664)

This post claimed by all AC's.
Suck it, logged in stupidhead pee-pee brains!

Re:first (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343912)

we rock da house today!

Hello (-1)

Mao Zedong (467890) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343626)

I am God.

Re:Hello (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343686)

Did you just make my wireless fail?

You bastard!

Re:Hello (-1)

Mao Zedong (467890) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343696)


Great B5 quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343947)

There is a great B5 quote that fits the current Middle East situation perfectly.

Morann: I should think you would be pleased by the progress of the war.

Delenn: What pleasure can be found in defeating an enemy that never had the slightest chance of defeating us?
Morann: Is that sympathy I hear in your voice, Delenn? I'm surprised. You were the chosen of Dukhat, after all.
Delenn: Dukhat would have never approved of this slaughter.
Morann: This is simple retribution.
Delenn: This has gone beyond retribution, Morann. This is madness. This is genocide.

Just replace Morann with Sharon and Delenn with someone with a conscience that I know exists inside the Israeli cabinet.

Mr Friedman (-1, Offtopic)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343627)

Mr Friedman,
What do you think about the Slashdot Moderation system and the editors having unlimited mod points?

Ohhh I'm gonna burn for this one :-)

MOD THIS UP!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343690)

I'll bet the editors will use their mod points to mod that down to -1

Re:Mr Friedman (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343727)

yeah. like the editors are gonna forward THAT to the interviewee no matter how high it gets moderated.

MOD THIS UP!!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343749)


Re:Mr Friedman (-1, Offtopic)

dthable (163749) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343792)

Even if you are the highest moderated question, do you think the editors are going to pass it along? We can only hope they do....

Re:Mr Friedman (-1, Offtopic)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343799)

Honestly, I think that if I got a score 5, they'd mod it down a point JUST before sending the email or the story gets archived.

Its happened before...

MOD THIS UP!! (a call to arms) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343858)

If you think the status quo on slashdot sucks then here's your chance to fight back! Post as many comments on this issue as you can, the word must be spread.

MOD PARENT UP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343931)

Moderators: Mod up parent post.

Yes! (-1, Offtopic)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343629)

KDE rules the first post. But WinXP Rules KDE.

1? (-1, Offtopic)

Pi-Zero Meson (453690) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343632)


Gnome & KDE (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343633)

What are you doing to further intergrate code with KDE?

FP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343634)

Fresh Piss!
This post claimed for all AC's.

Re:FP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343897)

You, sir, are an embarrassment to all ACs. You didn't even make it into the top five. In the name of all ACs, I kindly request that you kill yourself. Thank you.

What do you think (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343639)

Of gun-control laws? George Bush?

Note: this is a joke. It's funny in context. If you don't get it, here's a different one:
Nat is also co-chair of The Gnome Foundation
That's the beauty of gnomes: you can fits lots on a single chair. Reduce expenses and,

Bah! Do you still want to moderate me down?

All right, serious question:
"You use KDE 3.0, admit it."

Er, rather, I'll choose to phrase this as,
"What's the exact version of the desktop you most frequently use?"
There. Now GO AWAY, moderators!

When? (2, Interesting)

iamsure (66666) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343641)

The global answer for open source projects is always "when it is ready", but even developers have rough ideas around timeframes whether they are a decade, a year, a month, or a day.

So, I would love to know, "When will we see OpenOffice and Mozilla integrated into Gnome more effectively?"

Re:When? (2)

bergie (29834) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343703)

Use the Galeon [] browser, and you'll have a nicely integrated version of Mozilla, with a native GTK interface.


Re:When? (1)

high (315481) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343745)

more effectively?

It's to vague! If you want a solid estimation of how long time it would take you have to be more specific.

I would say something like:

When will we see OpenOffice and Mozilla integrated as good into Gnome as MS Office and IE in Windows?

Re:When? (1)

You're All Wrong (573825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343770)

They'll need a gaggle of extra programmers to start writing buffer over-runs, and other exploitable 'features' before they can claim that level of integration!!


Some gripes concerning the editor (-1)

Mao Zedong (467890) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343649)

I've got a beef with Mr. Roblimo. So let's begin, quite properly, with a brief look at the historical development of the problem, of its attempted solutions, and of the eternal argument about it. Our real enemy is the peremptory, improvident system that made him as beer-guzzling as he is. But there are other strains of contemptible teetotalism active today, and the siren calls of those movements may mesmerize incoherent low-lifes whose ostentatious fervor blinds them to historical lessons. I, not being one of the many bloodthirsty scofflaws of this world, have no idea why he makes such a big fuss over deconstructionism. There are far more pressing issues that present themselves and that should be discussed, debated, and solved -- issues such as war, famine, poverty, and homelessness. There is also the lesser issue that Roblimo can't fool me. I've met frightful turncoats before, so I know that in order to solve the big problems with Roblimo, we must first understand these problems, and to understand them, we must give our propaganda fighters an instrument that is very much needed at this time. When one examines the ramifications of letting Roblimo exploit the masses, one finds a preponderance of evidence leading to the conclusion that it has been said that he has no ground and no right to replace the search for truth with a situationist relativism based on abusive credentialism. I believe that to be true. I also believe that some people think it's a bit extreme of me to enlighten the mind of Man and improve him as a rational, moral, and social being -- a bit over the top, perhaps. Well, what I ought to remind such people is that Roblimo is careless with data, makes all sorts of causal interpretations of things without any real justification, has a way of combining disparate ideas that don't seem to hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in his own biases, gets into all sorts of militant speculation, and then makes no effort to test out his speculations -- and that's just the short list! Do you really think that unfounded attacks on character, loads of hyperbole, and fallacious information are the best way to make a point, as Roblimo claims? Wake up! I must part company with many of my peers when it comes to understanding why Roblimo is capable of passing very rapidly from a hidden enjoyment of pestilential heathenism to a proclaimed attachment to Pyrrhonism and back -- and back again. My peers insist that Roblimo's generalizations are uncalled for. While this is indeed true, I suspect we must add that if Roblimo gets his way, none of us will be able to speak out against dishonest primates. Therefore, we must not let Roblimo elevate his intimations to prominence as epistemological principles.

Again, the acid test for his "kinder, gentler" new long-term goals should be, "Do they still scorn and abjure reason?" If the answer is yes, then we can conclude that Roblimo likes memoirs that dig a grave in which to bury liberty and freedom. Could there be a conflict of interest there? If you were to ask me, I'd say that there is no such thing as evil in the abstract. It exists only in the evil deeds of evil people like Roblimo. If you've ever watched television or read a book, odds are that you already know that Roblimo frequently avers his support of democracy and his love of freedom. But one need only look at what Roblimo is doing -- as opposed to what he is saying -- to understand his true aims. He periodically puts up a facade of reform. However, underneath the pretty surface, it's always business as usual.

When we tease apart the associations necessary to Roblimo's invidious artifices, we see that Roblimo is terrified that there might be an absolute reality outside himself, a reality that is what it is, regardless of his wishes, theories, hopes, daydreams, or decrees. If we can understand what has caused the current plague of jejune administrators, I believe that we can then go placidly amid the noise and haste. Roblimo's stories about pharisaism are particularly ridden with errors and distortions, even leaving aside the concept's initial implausibility. It is grossly misleading merely to claim that if one could get a Ph.D. in Interdenominationalism, Roblimo would be the first in line to have one. Although Mr. Roblimo needs to open up to the world around him, we are here to gain our voice in this world, and whether or not he approves, we will continue to be heard.

Mono & Miguel (5, Interesting)

Sircus (16869) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343650)

OK, this is three question marks, but I figure they go together in one answer:

What are your feelings regarding Miguel's stated preferences for future integration of Mono and Gnome? Since you're a major part of Ximian, does it automatically follow that you're in agreement?

How do you resolve the potential conflicts of interest over issues such as this one between your role at Ximian and your position with the Gnome foundation?

Ximian soul (0)

bryam (449040) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343651)

Hi Nat:

From the release of Ximian Connector and the agreement between Ximian and Sun for GNOME under Solaris. Do you feel that Ximian is the same in spirit that the enterprise founded by Miguel and you (Helixcode, some years ago)?

Regards & Thanks,

Re:Ximian soul (0)

hettb (569863) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343747)

Ximian *is* Helixcode. They just renamed the company a few years ago.

On a related note, go here [] for the early history of Helixcode (before it was renamed.)

Re:Ximian soul (0)

bryam (449040) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344023)

Ximian is !Helixcode.
Helixcode slogan was Free Software Company,
Ximian is "The Open Source Desktop Leader". Helixcode build only Free Software, Ximian make Ximian Connector, Corporate Connect, and change the license model to the MONO classes. No, is not the same.

Re:Ximian soul (0)

hettb (569863) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344169)

Read this post [] . It is the same company, and companies are known to change their focus and mission statement, as necessary.

First (and most obvious) Question! (5, Interesting)

fm6 (162816) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343656)

There are a lot of failed business models that begin, "we can give away software and charge for ..." How is Ximian's business model different

Re:First (and most obvious) Question! (2)

Sircus (16869) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343851)

You're assuming it *is* different :-)

I'm not trolling -

a) they could fail just like those other companies,
b) the services they provide (Red Carpet) could simply be found more valuable by the public than those of failed companies,
c) they've already departed from the traditional "give away the software" business plan by selling the Exchange connector. I don't know if this was always in the plan, or a sign of trouble ahead
d) They could simply implement the exact same plan better than other companies have. As far as I can make out, their cost structure's not exactly crippling - they employ a bunch of coders, but they're not out throwing million-dollar parties, sending free stuff to people, etc.

Re:First (and most obvious) Question! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343922)

they employ a bunch of coders, but they're not out throwing million-dollar parties, sending free stuff to people, etc.

So their only real expenses are salaries and a cleaning service to hose down their jizz-encrusted workstations once a week?

my question (4, Interesting)

rosewood (99925) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343660)

"What is the hardest part of working in such a hard-core, community driven work sector?"

The idea for this question came with that article about Lindows and not releasing their source. I ask this here because of the hard core community that seems to side so staunchly on this KDE vs Gnome idea.

KDE (0)

bryam (449040) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343670)

Do you like KDE 3?

Your Mom's tongue is my toilet paper (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343824)

No, but I like the way your mother tossed my salad last night. It's too bad I shat on her face, though. She was up all night obsessively washing it, saying how she wasn't some crack whore. I thought otherwise.

Future Plans for Ximian and Gnome (5, Interesting)

Everach (559166) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343671)

How does Ximian intend to leverage the Open Source movement for continued economic growth?

Exchange Like Product (5, Interesting)

Kaypro (35263) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343678)

Currently the Exchange Connector seems to integrate quite well, are there any plans to create a standalone server with similar capabilities to Echange Server?

gnome and mono (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343679)

How will MONO project affect GNOME project in the future?

My question: MS Licensing Plan Version 6.0 (4, Interesting)

joebp (528430) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343682)

In many ways, Microsoft's introduction of the infamous Version 6.0 on August 1st might be a watershed for Linux desktop usage in business.

Are you looking forward to an increase in private-sector uptake as Microsoft makes its licensing arguably less attractive, or do you feel there are still 'holes to fill' WRT the feasibility of Linux desktop usage in business?


Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343687)


LINUX, you retard (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343818)

Your going to have to do better than that.

FGZP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343692)

Foolish humans of planet Houston, I, General Zod, am now your leader.


Re:FGZP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3344298)

You will be defeated by Richard Pryor and that chick who turns into a robot.

Nautilus (3, Interesting)

ahde (95143) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343695)

What can you tell us about the future of the Nautilus file manager as it relates to Ximian Gnome? Is Ximian planning to continue development where Eazel left off, continue using and maintaining it, or replace it with something a little more ...uh... lightweight?

Re:Nautilus (5, Insightful)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343739)

No offense to the poster, but moderators, please don't mod this up any further - it's a waste of an interview question, IMHO. Nautilus IS being *actively* maintained, and if one checks out the GNOME 2 snapshots or betas, Nautilus is MUCH faster now. The need for a "lighter" file manager is becoming less of an issue all the time. And if you really must have something lighter-weight, I hear lots of good things about Rox Filer... but let's not waste 1/10th of our questions on Nautilus 1.0.x speed issues, please.

Re:Nautilus (1)

high (315481) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343794)

I've heard that Nautilus in Gnome 2 should have gained a real speedboost. So it's well maintained and that it would be replaced is very unlikely.

But if your really looking for a more lightweight filemanager you might want to look into Gnome Commander [] , a Norton Commander look-a-like.

Future of gnumeric? (5, Interesting)

Tet (2721) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343704)

Miguel has stated that he believes the GNOME project should stop putting its effort into gnumeric, and instead concentrate of openoffice. Can we take it that this is an official Ximian position? I believe it's the wrong one, and while the code will remain available for anyone to pick and and modify thanks to the GPL, it's hard to see a long term future for gnumeric if its lead developers are advocating switching to something else...

Re:Future of gnumeric? (5, Interesting)

miguel (7116) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343975)

I believe that Gnumeric is a very advanced spreadsheet. But it will take 5 years to get to the point where Excel is. In some areas, Gnumeric is more advanced than Open Calc, and in some cases, Open Calc is more advanced than Gnumeric.

Open Office is an integrated office suite, so that does help a lot in terms of a unified office suite to deploy to people. To move more people away from Microsoft Office and into an Open Source/Free Software product, I am encouraging people to use OpenOffice.

That being said, Gnumeric has a beautiful code base, and will likely be a nice testing ground for new technologies (as it has always been).

Gnumeric is better suited for people who want to do build a spreadsheets for PDAs which are compatible with Excel, for a works-like scenario, or as a reusable engine. Open Office is a lot harder to hack on currently.

So I see both existing. I am in love with both products.


what's better.. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343718)

ximian or sex with a mare?

Re:what's better.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3344278)

Look at the size of horse cock.

Consider how loose horse cunt must be.

Think about it for a minute... you should be able to figure out the answer to your question on your own.

Mono and Windows compatibility (5, Interesting)

AirLace (86148) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343726)

Ximian has explained that it is developing [] the Mono [] .NET runtime and C# implementations to provide a modern development environment for the GNOME / Linux desktop. Of course, a pleasant side-effect of writing future applications in C# will be that it's easy to make them Windows compatible. Do you see a future in producing cross-platform software solutions or will Ximian remain devoted to the Linux desktop? Will Ximian use Windows.Forms (in conjunction with a GTK# compatibility layer) or will GTK# [] be used directly by Ximian programs? After all, the two toolkits have fundamentally different philosophies behind widget packing/placement etc.

Re:Mono and Windows compatibility (3, Interesting)

dthable (163749) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343819)

To generalize the question, Ximian is putting effort into the Mono project. How does Ximian plan to leverage Mono and .Net in the future released of Ximian software? (I don't think they would put so much into Mono just for the sake of creating a .Net for Linux.)

Re:Mono and Windows compatibility (1)

bartok (111886) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343901)

I'm talking out of my ass here (but hey, this is Slashdot ;) but I think Windows.Form will be used as a top level interface to any GUI tookit binding. IMO, in an ideal world, Ximian would concentrate their efforts on making it work with GTK# and if C# becomes popular, the KDE team could develop a Qt# binding and a call Windows.Form would automatically detect which desktop the user is running and use the right binding.

What the Fuck? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343735)

Flash ads? God dammit, I thought Taco said there wouldn't be any flash ads!

CmdrTaco=Homosexual Sellout

When... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343737)

Will you accept that KDE ownz GNOME and that you'd be better off pooling your efforts?

You know you've been reading /. too long when... (-1, Offtopic)

xtal (49134) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343740)

You look at that headline and see: "Learn About Ximian and Gnome from Natile Portman"

Whatever happened to the hot grits and OOG.. heh

Re:You know you've been reading /. too long when.. (-1, Offtopic)

polter (149311) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343777)

Uhhh, no. I think that means you've been lusting over Natalie Portman too long :)

My Question (4, Interesting)

magnwa (18700) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343743)

Over the past few years, there have been plenty of dependencies and what not in GNOME. One package upgrade seemingly shatters the entire setup. Now Gnome is many years older but doesn't seem to have approached the capabilities of the KDE. In this day and age when people are choosing KDE for their distributions in order to attain user-friendliness, what do you think Ximian can do to catch up? How do you plan on bridging that gap?

Re:My Question (2)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344088)

Gnome is many years older but doesn't seem to have approached the capabilities of the KDE.

This is completely false. Gnome was started *as a reaction* to KDE's use of the then non-Free QT toolkit, so it'd be kind of hard for it to be older. ;)

Microsoft and Mono? (5, Interesting)

zoward (188110) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343748)


Have you gotten a sense of how Microsoft views the existence of an open source alternative to .NET? Do you think that, over the long term, Microsoft will grow to love, ignore or loathe (and perhaps seek to undermine) Mono?

Question to Nat and ALL SLASHDOT READERS (-1, Offtopic)

sfrenchie (524076) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343752)

Maybe Nat Friedman can help me or maybe a slashdot reader or two...

I realize this is a crazy question but I would really like it to get answered:

Do you remember a really clever comment a while back that explained the internet by personifying basically all internet elements. All I remember about it was that the poster went on about how a girl (named ether?) would "ride her bicycle to her neighbors house and pass the packet on to him" etc.

Anyways, it was really funny but I lost my bookmark to it...

What? That wasn't off-topic!!

Re:Question to Nat and ALL SLASHDOT READERS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3344061)

Try google dumass.

A tricky one (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343754)

Why do you adore KDE so much ?

Core Gnome technologies (5, Interesting)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343765)

Despite its relatively short lifetime, Gnome's been really great about embracing all sorts of different technologies -- gtk, ORBit, bonobo and now Mono. However, it's sometimes difficult trying to figure out how this all ties together (if it's supposed to at all). Generally speaking, if someone's going to want to develop for Gnome in the future, how should they prepare themselves? What should they want to learn?

Useability research (5, Interesting)

nakhla (68363) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343767)

One of the big problems facing GNOME and other open-source software is that of ease-of-use. Microsoft and Apple spend millions of dollars when developing new operating systems or UIs in order to ensure that their product is easy to use for the non-geek end user. What kind of useability studies has Ximian conducted? What is Ximian doing to correct any problems that the research has brought to light?

Re:Useability research (1)

daeglin (570136) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343930)

Look at GNOME usability project [] . Very extensive tests were sponsored by SUN (click "User testing") -- unfortunately is it already one year old stuff. I think GNOME guys realy take care about non-geek (l)users. Nearly every problem from the SUN usability study were fixed. And much more is comming at GNOME2.

Re:Useability research (0, Redundant)

bilbobuggins (535860) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344104)

Microsoft and Apple spend millions of dollars when developing new operating systems or UIs in order to ensure that their product is easy to use

ok, one thing i am sick of...
people constantly bitch how gnome/kde seem to just rip off Apple/MS for interfaces. but then we see things like this.
if these companies took millions of dollars to figure it out, then what do you expect? is it stealing? is it tainted by the beast? no, it's the natural progression of product development in a competitive market place (offering what your competitor offers).

it's like people who won't use a task bar b/c it's associated w/ MS. if it's a good idea then what difference does it make?
also, if you ask me gnome is already super useable b/c it's so customizable. want it to work like windows? no problem. some other OS? not a problem either... in fact, i would like to know what problems you are having using gnome or kde that you feel research needs to be done
if there is some specific feature that you find hard to use, talk about that. don't just say 'make it easier and i don't know how'.
yeah, yeah, whatever, mod me down, someone had to say it...

Conflict of Philosophies (5, Interesting)

polyphemus-blinder (540915) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343771)

I would like to know:

What is your take on the apparent paradox resulting from:
1. the goal of uniformity on the Linux desktop, and
2. the many, many, groups who have this as their own special goal?

Mandrake and RedHat work toward this on the OS level, and Gnome and KDE battle it out on the desktop integration level, and many others espouse some sort of a "grand unification theory" of Linux.

Do you subscribe to the theory that less is more, or that multiple groups with a common goal will result in the goal's earlier acheivement?

As a buisness (5, Interesting)

Fizzlewhiff (256410) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343776)

Is it frustrating to see potential revenue lost due to offering the same products for free? Do you ever run the numbers to see what your income potential might be if you stopped giving away the same software you sell or do you believe that the Linux community, as a whole, cannot and will not support companies who only sell Linux software?

Important question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343797)

Does Ximian believe (as I do) that the Internet is a fad, much like the hoola-hoop or really low baggy pants worn by skate kids? After people throw this "Internet" in the back of their closets along with copies of their Back Street Boys CDs what will they do with their reclaimed free time?

Co-existance of Red-Carpet and up2date/RHN (5, Interesting)

yusufg (3239) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343800)

Hi, Red-Carpet seems to offer functionality similar to up2date/redhat network. However, there seems to be a very substantial lag between packages made available via Ximian's redhat channel and up2date.

An example being (till now, RPM 4.0.4) is not available via the Redhat 7.2 channel. Is Ximian going to ever make a policy statement as to what is the maximum duration their userbase will be diverged from receiving the latest updates of their respective distributions.

If there are specific packages which are likely not to be made available via red-carpet, can their be an official statement on this so that users are aware of the pros/cons of using multiple update mechanisms

The Future of Gnome (5, Interesting)

I_redwolf (51890) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343809)

What do you think about the future of Gnome in the usability arena. With the advent of Sun donating the usability team that worked on CDE and tiny little things (ie: not being able to manage the menu system without being root) where do you see Gnome fitting in amongst users. Will Gnome be only for power users, or experts only or for that matter users in transistion? (By the way I know who's working on the menu system and I'm currently trying to help figure something out). KDE has it's niche defined but Gnome seems to be in a little bit of a haze as having a defining role in the OpenSource desktop movement lately. What is it's defining niche and target audience if there is any at this point?

Also if I can squeeze another one in; With MONO being cooked and simmered in the pot how do you see the usefulness of the Compiler and .NET as a language affecting/detracting/helping opensource and Gnome in general. As MONO is a Ximian funded open source project there must be some plans to use it in Ximians' version of Gnome. If I might ask whats coming down the pipe from Ximian in the aspect of MONO/.NET and Gnome?

Personal feelings (3, Interesting)

mapnjd (92353) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343822)

Question for Nat: "How do you cope, on a personal level, with all the negative and sometimes ill-informed comments that people make about GNOME and Ximian?"

People reading this: I am a GNOME user, and I love it. I understand that you may prefer KDE and that it does do somethings better than GNOME. It's just that GNOME suits my needs better.

I only ask as I personally don't deal with these sorts of things well.


Leisure (-1, Troll)

GooseYArd (96708) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343836)

Can you explain the assbarn phenomenon?


How come Mono ain't finished yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343838)

It's been, like, a year already!
I am trying to decide whether I should extend my $499/month lease on my TRS80 or start using Mono.

Red Hat 7.3 - Remove Ximian (5, Interesting)

spudnic (32107) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343849)

The first step in the installation instructions for upgrading to Red Hat 7.3 was to remove all Ximian components. How are ya'll going to resolve this issue so we won't have to jump through hoops to keep Ximian updated and Red Hat Happy?

Why GNOME? (0, Flamebait)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343857)

Why do you even bother working on this GNOME thing when KDE is so much better?

Is... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343861)

this [] your asshole?

Note to moderators: mod this up! It's important to know the answer to this question. After all, the goatse man has by far the most-viewed anus on the internet. He's famous!!! Wouldn't you like to shake his hand (after he washes them, of course)?

Usability (5, Interesting)

Khazunga (176423) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343863)

The two main desktop environments for Linux (KDE and Gnome) do not offer usability improvements over mainstream desktop Operating Systems -- namely MS Windows and MacOS.

Gnome does have a usability project. What is your opinion on its actual impact on Gnome? Do you feel the open-source movement can attract non-programmers -- like usability experts -- with the same intensity it attracts programmers?

Re: Usability (1)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344123)

Gnome does have a usability project.

Really? Maybe this site [] exists only in my imagination? ;)

Re: Usability (2)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344152)

grr. Sorry, I'm fscking retarded this morning.

I meant this site [] . Sorry!

Animal cruelty query (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3343869)

Nat, when will you free your simian sex slave? Mistreating monkeys for sexual favors (i.e. paw fisting) is highly inhumane.

Lack of documentation for GNOME internals (5, Interesting)

Tet (2721) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343873)

Are there any plans to increase the amount of documentation on GNOME internals? While GNOME seems to have plenty of trivial documentation (such as the GNOME User's Guide [] , there's virtually nothing that explains what's going on underneath. Are there any plans for a "GNOME Administrator's Guide"? I'm thinking of something that documents usage of files in $HOME/.gnome, what session management is and how it works, what controls the contents of the GNOME menu, and so on. For example, when GNOME fails to correctly save session information, I'd like to be able to check the documentation to see what should be being written to .gnome/session. At the moment, I just have to guess. Some of it is reasonably obvious from context, but it's the sort of thing that really needs formally documenting.

Re:Lack of documentation for GNOME internals (2, Funny)

Pope Slackman (13727) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343939)

It already has documentation. It's called source code.

(No, I'm not being serious. But sadly, I've seen that posted as a serious reply to similar questions.)

Re:Lack of documentation for GNOME internals (1)

chetohevia (109956) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343984)

Two things have been lacking-- Developer docs and Sysadmin docs. Developer docs are expanding pretty rapidly-- that's a project that's underway now.

As to admin docs, well... .

Part of the issue is that GNOME system administration isn't that different from any other kind of UNIX/Linux system administration: config files in the ~/ and ~/.gnome directories, defaults in /etc/skel or per-app in $PREFIX/gnome, (/usr/share, or /opt, depending on distro), and so forth. So it hasn't been as cruicial as you imply.

However, it's something that at least a few GNOME community members are either working on or plan to work on in the near future. Check out the or mailing lists if you're interested in having more input.

.net Integration (2, Interesting)

fabiolrs (536338) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343925)

I would love to know how Ximian expects its products to integrate MS .net strategy. Will Ximian products integrate with .net? If so, how Ximian is planning to do it? When it is planning to do it?


External Compatibility (5, Interesting)

dspeyer (531333) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343943)

What plans do you have to improve compatibility with the non-GNOME world?

For example, do you think it's practical to implement Xaw as a front-end to GTK? That would get OpenOffice integration real fast, among others. What about a unified theme format with KDE? Or a common protocol for copy/paste?

It seems like this sort of stuff would be really helpful -- what's actually in the works?

embedded gnome? (5, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343966)

Gnome is great for the overpowered computers of today, and I am glad your group brought us Gnome (just like I thank the KDE people for KDE) but I have a very important question....

Is there any plans to make a Gnome lite or an embedded Gnome? something that would work on minimal hardware (P133 as a target)? Having available a "desktop" that is very similar to the workstation desktop on embedded or small devices would be a huge advantage for linux in general (look at winCE and PocketPC os or whatever microsoft calls it today)

Is it possible to release a mini-gnome?

Why subscribe? (5, Interesting)

JThaddeus (531998) | more than 12 years ago | (#3343981)

I was considering subscribing in order to improve the performance of downloads (which have gone to a snail's pace since the subscription program began) but two out of three of my last update attempts have ended in file not found errors. This type of error doesn't give me confidence in how well RedCarpet setups are tested. So why shouldn't I just forget about subscriptions and go with KDE?

Ximian & support (4, Interesting)

finasf (567193) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344065)

How Ximian can be so slow by publishing compatibility to Mandrake 8.2? This cannot be the way to work because Mandrake is one of the major distros! Shame you! You will lost many possible clients if you wont bring compatibility to latest versions asap. Is this gonna be same on Red Hat v7.3???

Gnome sans-X? (5, Interesting)

emil (695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344079)

The KDE project is attempting to develop a version of KDE/Qt that does not require X.

They've been at this for awhile, and I don't know their status, but have you any thoughts on similar work?

Gnu ROPE question (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3344090)

When will GNU ROPE be released? A few years ago you (Nat) and Miguel made a lot of noise about the fact it would speed up the loading times of Mozilla by 30%. However it never came out. Did the project die?

Integration with distributions (2, Interesting)

daeglin (570136) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344128)

I like Ximian but it is only GNOME Desktop distribution. It "sits on" some Linux distribution. Unfortunately the integration with the leading distros is poor (I explain it later).

So the qestion is: Are you going to cooperate with some Linux distro more?

Explanation what concerns me (I currently use Debian, RedHat, Mandrake on different comps for different purposes -- all with Ximian desktop):

With Ximian I have basicaly two sets of config tool -- one from distro (in distro menus) the second one from GNOME/Ximian (in Ximian menus) -- neither of these sets is complete. This is the main Ximian stopper for me.

Two different menu systems. Some application are accesed from distro menus another from Ximian menus.

It seems to me it would be logical if RedHat and Ximian cooperate. (but I'm gonna to change distro if Ximan chooses somebody else :)

Methodology (5, Interesting)

shomon2 (71232) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344151)

I have just finished a computing degree where I devoted most of my final year to studying the methodologies used in different open source projects... I looked at a lot of the things which are being used to make larger open source projects work, such as python's PEPs, apache's voting structure, the enlargement of the CVS writing and code review heirarchy etc. What other technical or non technical methods are you thinking of implementing (or are already doing) with regard to the gnome project, and the way software is built within ximian, to allow for it's continued growth?

Also, are there any suggestions you could give towards getting smaller projects to bridge the gap and grow to optimal sizes?



Assbarn? (2, Interesting)

huberj (12015) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344155)

Can you tell us more about your efforts with the assbarn [] project?


Whither Grope? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3344156)

Years back at ALS you presented GROPE, a tool for reordering functions at
link time. You presented tantalizing results: it works, and it makes
programs load twice as fast and consume half as much memory. Sounds
great! What became of it?

Ximian Setup (3)

ACK!! (10229) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344291)

Considering the many divergent tools most users end up having to learn to manipulate system settings especially if they use multiple or try out multiple distros of linux, I found the Ximian Setup project very exciting.

Where does Ximian as a company see this component fitting into its list of priorities?

________________________________________________ __ __

Ximian Evolution (1)

finasf (567193) | more than 12 years ago | (#3344305)

Ximian Evolution seems to be Outlook KILLER but how to improve it against other email clients? Many users are using Mozilla because of support to news (usenet). Have you planned to include news support to Evolution? On that way you can get more people to change their email- and news softwares to Evolution. "One software which handles all users needs" ;-)
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