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Net Phones Taking Off in the Third World

michael posted about 12 years ago | from the save-a-buck-or-two dept.

The Internet 173

dipfan writes "Internet telephone technology is surging in popularity and starting to make a big dent in telephone revenues in the Third World, for a simple reason: cost. A call from Honduras to the US over the net is just 5 or 10 cents a minute at an internet cafe, compared with $1+ a minute through a telco, reports the Washington Post, which compares the situation to the US where internet telephony "is used mostly by college students and geeks" who have the time and energy to install the software."

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173 comments

Third world niggers love wide posts too! (-1)

Klerck (213193) | about 12 years ago | (#3373207)


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Email me and tell me what you think of widening! [mailto]

Re:Third world niggers love wide posts too! (-1)

trollercoaster (250101) | about 12 years ago | (#3373222)

You are such the fucking man!

Re:Third world niggers love wide posts too! (-1)

Klerck (213193) | about 12 years ago | (#3373269)

Thank you!

Not only did I manage to get first post, but it was also a widening racist post on a story posted by Hitler himself, michael!

Re:Third world niggers love wide posts too! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373552)

Kleck, you are an absolute professional in doing first p0sts! I love your professionalism and kneel before you!

The correct way to do it is.. (-1)

The_Fire_Horse (552422) | about 12 years ago | (#3373212)

1. Run a string line from one edge of the property to the other.
2. Dig a hole 1 foot square by 2 feet deep using a thin spade.
3. Fill with concrete and set in a stirrup bracket.
4. bolt a piece of hardwood 4 inches square by 6 feet into the bracket and level.
5. Yell FIRST POST

Re:The correct way to do it is.. (-1, Offtopic)

geeky-troll (552499) | about 12 years ago | (#3373361)

Linux [disney.com]: the hype is over

According to the latest Gartner group [gartner.com] research report, the Linux [disney.com] hype is finally over. Research [gartner.com] shows that market share of Linux [disney.com]-driven production servers on the internet has finally declined to a single-digit number. The reasons for this are clear:

* Linux [disney.com] is unstable [freeswan.org]
* Linux [disney.com] has an unreliable filesystem [linuxtoday.com]
* Everybody uses Windows or BSD, nowadays [netcraft.com]

Research [gartner.com] has clearly pointed out, that although there are still hordes of penguin-dressed geeks [tuxedo.org] running around MIS departments, management has grown wise (or gone out of business) and doesn't even allow Linux [disney.com] workstations anymore, since the costs in maintaining these machines turned out to be astronomically high. [midrangeserver.com] The reasons for this are clear as well.

* Installation is a pain in the ass [google.com]
  1. it usually takes a whole support team to install a geeks' workstation

* Bandwidth
  1. Installation and maintenance requires 4-5 times the bandwidth a 'normal' OS would require

* Integration and connectivity
  1. Linux [disney.com] was deliberately made completely incompatible and inoperatible with turnkey solutions like MS Exchange or MS SQL server. Investments in these products are therefore voided the minute you start rolling out Linux [disney.com].

* Complexity
  1. Applications developed in Perl or C, the languages of the linux community have proven to be slow,
  2. unreliable [freeswan.org], insecure and headaching complicated. Once developed and debugged, nobody is able to understand the code.


Therefore, it has been statistically proven that most companies have already moved away from Linux [disney.com]. This can be concluded from the following signs:

  • All the 'geeks' wearing tux t-shirts are actually MIS support guys who are still studying for their MCSE exam.
  • 'The screaming fast Linux [disney.com] machines at work' are actually refurbished workstations at a separated network segment, not allowed on the production network since every Linux [disney.com] (l)user seems to need nmap [insecure.org] [insecure.org] to perform normal work-related computer operations.
  • All the 'cool' Apache web servers are actually IIS machines with forged host headers. (yes, you can do that in IIS without recompiling anything. Heck, I lived for years without a C compiler and still do. )

  • For the rare instance where a free UNIX is actually used in a production environment, management has smartened up and BSD is usually installed.



A Couple of BSD Users' Experience With Linux (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373217)

We put Tux on the table, belly down. That probably wasn't so smart, but we figured if he tried to slide, we could just beat him ov er the head with the dildo. He was already beaten up pretty badly, but my buddy and I enjoyed the fight he put up. We weren't qui te sure where to begin at first; it'd be a shame if the party was over too quick. We figured a bit of fondling was in order, you k now, to get us worked up and get Tux's juices flowing. As I "grepped" his buttocks and groin, my friend caressed his face with the long, pink dildo. The penguin let out a few cries of discomfort, wanting obvioulsy to be set free. He knew what was in store for him. But at the moment of one of his bellows, my friend was able to stick the dildo in his beak! Tux was enraged and he began to twist and spasm, trying to get out of our grip. "Seems the little fucker's got his strength back!" To solve the problem, I hit h im over the head a few times. Not too hard, of course. We wanted him to be conscious so he could enjoy the eXPerience to the max. Not wanting to risk the same thing with his own cock, my friend thrust and withdrew the dildo from Tux's mouth slowly. "If only we could get rid of that beak," he says. I thought it was an interesting idea, something to consider later.

I however, was about to start my own fun. Working up my penis to a nice, firm erection with some AstroGlide [astroglide.com] (which I had first learned about on that Linux/cyberterrorism web site "slashdot"), I slowly guided into the penguin's tight ass. Tux, still slightly conscious, let out a few half-hearted screams of pain, and twitched sligh tly. Once my penis was all the way inserted, I got up on Tux's back and grabbed his chest firmly. Without much ceremony, I began to bang the creature hard, like he was a Salvation Army drum. He appearantly loved it... or hated it. I couldn't tell. All I kno w is that the more he screamed, the harder I fucked. It didn't take me long to reach climax! I exploded deep in his ass with a gi gantic load. The pressure was too much at this point and all around my penis, there was a gushing of cum, blood, and feces that fl owed like a waterfall onto the floor. Tux was unconscious by this time, so were free to do whatever we wanted.

And that's when it really got crazy!

Stay tuned next week for PART TWO!!

Re:A Couple of BSD Users' Experience With Linux (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373487)

I know you'll never take me
Don't even think you'll break me
Be sure you'll never take me
I'm gonna make you see!
Here: every look is a murder
Here: every word is a bite
When you say 'turn', they all start to turn
When you say 'dive', they're all on their knees
Turn! Start! Turn! Dive!

My thoughts (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373230)

posting Im totally appalled. Wah. Wah. Cry wah. Fuck you commie. You leftish shit. Lets make the doors out of paper to let the burgulars in, give a big hug and try to kiss and make friends lalalalalal.

This thread is making me sick, and all the commie leftist biased shit going on makes me even more sick.

There are those few people here which have said some conservative sense to these leftists that would teach gay love to young boys for the sake of diversity.

No one holds a gun to your head to eat that fuckin' McDonalds. NO ONE. These third world saps suck up American culture because they are busy chopping clitorises off of women, suppressing ethnic minority groups though genocide or some other bull shit.

People are way to young and don't read much history. Ask Tibet how it likes China's takeover. Ask the Chinks how they like the Japs when they killed 100,000's during the occupation of Manchuria. Ask any of the down trodden eastern Europeans how it felt to have the long spear of the Soviet Ramrod up their asses during the cold war days? How bout a nice day in a GOULAG? How about making bomb shelters in Iraq near legit military targets to get "bad lefty communist like Christiana AMAPOUR to report civvie deaths even though Hussein is at fault?" How about starving Iraqi "children" aka terrorists in training starving to death because their leader is spending upwards ot 50B/year in WMD research. How about Canada and France selling No. Ko. reactor parts, great fuckin friends we have. How about getting the death penalty in Singapore for smoking a joint? How about giving the Middle East nations the oil fields back (after we built huge oil platforms for them, because the tent dwelling cretins were too fucking retarded to do it themselves). Oh, Mr. Bad USA, gave the panama canal back. How about a USA so weak right now fucking Chinks want to buy out Global Crossing (a big chunk of the FUCKING INTERNET WE INVENTED, PIONEERED) after the chinks were handed all sorts of shit by the CLINTOON administration, and Terry McAuliffe.

FUCK TIHS ANTI AMERICAN shit. all the foreigners who get here legally stay for a fucking damn good reason. And I welcome you, so long as you pay taxes - do what you fuckin want.

This is historically unfounded. We get over our vices and inconsistencies fast here. USA makes mistakes, but the Sudanese still have slavery, we don't. We got over slavery damn quick compared to the rest of the world. We came a long way on suffrage (the right to vote to all the bleeding heart commies who have yet to pay much into the system yet). We may not be perfect yet, but shit, its far from shit. very far.

I hate the commie shit socialists who want the least common denominator for everyone.

FUCK YOU. Id rather nuke your ass and suck up some nice radiation I paid for that share my home with you fucking lazy un-working vermin.

I'll never worry about losing the cure for cancer by nuking dumps like Iraq, because these defunct shithead countries will never make one.

There is so much trash going around on this thread, it makes me laugh. Pseudo educated suppressed homosexuals (not that homosexuality is bad, but suppressing it, geeze you liberal fucks should spread the cheeks and get it done with, you spit your wad a lot harder when the person fucking your ass has a towel on his head) eructating puerile shit.

I'm glad we are planning to make it possible to put me into bondage. I would rather die than be in bondage to these shitty subversive chinks or commies or morally bankrupt suppressive shitass Islamic Towelheads.

We have said for 40 years plus, you do it, you think about it, and you are gone. the red button gets pressed, the red telephone gets slammed on the receiver.

The Japs did well surrendering to us. They are the second or third largest economy in the World, jeeze, the USA really sucks to surrender to , huh? You tools need to think - you really think the US didn't do them a favor by burning down that house? They made off with our car industry for Christ's sake, and boy, I do love driving my Japanese car - its great. And I fucking paid it off in 9 months, $33,000 bucks. And not, its not public property, you cant have a ride, fuck off , its mine I PAID FOR IT. None of this commie shit.

John Walker scume floating around Marin. Bezerkelyite fuckers with Barney Telletubbie view of the world scumballing their shit subversive agenda.

I must say, piss on John Asscraft for being a fascist shit. I may hate you leftist fuck commies, but this right wing fascist shit sucks too.

Really, really. What is going on? There are circles of power, some leaning left, some leaning right, some existing for themselves. They divide the people of the world, always focusing on what makes us different! Are you a fag or not? Are you black or white? Are you left or right? Are you a fat fuck? You know what - I don't give a shit what you are, and that's still my fucking car. The circles of power want us to fight amongst ourselves while the prance off with all the fucking money and power.

Everyone wants a nice Japanese import car, real medical care (not socialized shit, like that shit in the UK where if you reach a certain age you entitlement to care is GONE, like if you get dialysis, hit age 65, they PULL THE FUCKING PLUG, because they are commie shits), they want halfway decent schools, freedom to think etc. We got all that here. I live it. You fall on your face here because you are lazy, not a caste system.

Tactical nukes are appropriate, and we had the finger on the button the last 50 years, we just want to remind the world, hey, have a wet dream, and well have a coupla kilotons of force to save us some money.

Appeasing Hitler landed Neville Chamberlain in the historical doghouse, and it took Winston Churchill to show the world the right way. To quote Churchill, "'Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others,'"

All high and mighty EU, they armed these fucking countries. Half the Islamic nations shit came from French military hardware, roundly supplemented by the zipper heads. The I hear some leftist shit in this thread quote MAO the DUNG on the US being the "paper tiger". HAH. Nice life expectancy in China there, Mao Tse Dung. Nice going, harvesting organs from political prisoners for the highest bidders and government dignitaries.

Commies say big business is evil. Hah. The "Evil" Big Business: Doesn't exist like you think it does. I am in a small business. My small business was created from money from big business to innovate new technology to stop Internet DDOS attacks. The innovation would be a B2B service for medium and small businesses. I get my health care, dental, paid vacation and education subsidy either directly or indirectly from Big "Evil?" Business. One could way to make things work better would be to give outright tax credits to companies doing good things in their communities, like building schools or repairing roads or bridges. I'm sure HP could negotiate a better price for the "NEW BAY AREA BRIDGE" than the cabal of stupid idiots running Oakland and San Francisco. Now that I think of HP, I think of a huge company that has built several hospitals and given BILLIONS of dollars in charity through the "David and Lucille Packard Foundation" - established 1964. General Electric was run by a bottom-to-top rags-to-riches engineer-to-CEO JACK WELCH [http://www.straightfromthegut.com/ good book]. Mr. Welch, a native of Salem, Massachusetts, served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Electric from 1981-2001. He was nicknamed "Chainsaw" or "Neutron Jack" because he fired people. He was painted as evil He was the epitome of an evil CEO. Yeah riiiight. He fired the lower 10% every year. He removed the bottom 10% with sound metrics. He FIRED losers. And those vocal minority losers who can't work up to corporate standards whined and pissed and made the public think that he was "EVIL." The losers seem to speak up the loudest. By the way, GE has a long standing tradition of employee investment - education subsidy, good pensions, health care, etc etc. Yeah, GE dumped shit in the Hudson. Yes, GE made mistakes. The Chinese STILL dump shit in their rivers, we stopped doing it 30 years ago. Does it help GE to maximize shareholder profit if they are being forced to clean up shit they dump? No, so they stopped doing it a LONG time ago. Are some businesses evil? Yes. Are they all, flat out NO. It doesn't pay long term to be "evil."

Point: Be angry at the media for sucking, be angry at the government for wasting your money. Unless we get a western version of Mohandas Gandhi, be angry with every single Congressman, Senator whatever else. They step on your heads everyday.

Time to go read about some new scientific discoveries or new information about open source software or something interesting. Politics suck.

God I love those Krauts too. The fucking purified leftovers from the National Socialist party. Fuck you krauts. You started two god damn world wars. This Eurotarded Eurotrash Union is a suck bag quagmire of shit.

And these Towelheads and their newfound love for Palestine. Keep in mind these Palestinian vagrants have been booted out of every ISLAMIC nation they try to infect. They are hooligan vagrants , and if you replaced Israel with lets say, a pro Towel regime like France, they would be next on hit list of all the adjacent Arab nations. No one wants to pay for these tent toting Neanderthalic holdovers from the 3rd century. May as well kill them. We wont have to in the long run, the morally bankrupt Islamic nations will mop them up for us when they have expired their usefulness to their twisted cause.

And everyone blames DUBYA, like one person runs the fucking country. Meanwhile, the Congress and Senate make all the fuckin laws, the only power W gets is a big fat Veto. There isn't much the legislative branch can't override. DYBYA has an big administration, so of it is typical Right wing special interest trash, some of it is true blue pro the future of America. Shit, these people have to have some notion of self preservation. Every single Bush family relative isn't surviving WWIII, fuck, I'd be willing to be that 90% of everyone in that administration's extended families would be dead as doornails if there was an all out nuclear conflict. No one wants an extended nuclear conflict, but I would pay front row admission to see bin Towelheads skin get baked off by a tactical nuke dropped off by a Predator or some shit. You don't eve have to aim.

The geopolitical situation in the world is not solely exacerbated by the US. It is bullshit to think that this country control the world's direction. People want what we have and aren't willing to adopt our ways. We get what we want by worshipping our own dollar, more than POWER or RELIGION. Its only natural cretins don't catch on to this and feel like trying to defeat us "imperialists." Hey, quick secret you fuckers who hate us - STOP BUYING AND SELLING SHIT TO US, STOP USING OUR CURRENCY. I would be willing to bet that most of the world printed US currency isn't even in the US. Out of many one, e plurbus unum. Printed on the fucking money. I don't buy trickle down doesn't work either, our success trickles down. People think we should have the upper hand after we invent all this shit and create a venue for success because they are failures in life and have to resort to communism or socialism to make up for the fact they need Viagra to get it up, another American invention.

I love how America is seen as this pretty glass castle, and the rest of the serfs plowing the fields for a fair wage all start tossing rocks because they or their culture or their family failed to give the intellectual tools to succeed. Yeah, that's our fault.

I don't think an Islamic person will ever set foot off this planet, because anything not of the planet or Mecca or any aliens are probably UNCLEAN, UNHOLY and vile, and they MUST BEND to ALLAHS will. I cant believe people still believe in this superstitious bullshit.

Hey lefty, youll get extra credit for your shit clas at Berkelely - its called the SUNDANESE CULTURAL CLASS, 101, learn to carve a girls clitoris off! 4 CREDITS!

There are more important things they need (-1, Troll)

PhysicsGenius (565228) | about 12 years ago | (#3373232)

Why are we sending cell phones, a luxury product if ever there was one, to Third World nations when what they really need is to accept the Lord God as their Savior? Finding Jesus is the only way out of the cycle of poverty and he ain't reachable by cell phone.

Re:There are more important things they need (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373248)

I got your lord and savior right here [evolvefish.com]

Re:There are more important things they need (-1, Offtopic)

AngryAndDrunk (574308) | about 12 years ago | (#3373264)

Finding Jesus is the only way out of the cycle of poverty

Really? How so?

Do all True Believers automatically qualify for well paid jobs and/or green cards?

He will provide (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373322)

By accepting God into their hearts, they will find that all will be well. He will stop plaguing them with AIDS, their IQs will once again be equivalent to Western whites' and they will gain the riches of Solomon.

Re:There are more important things they need (1)

MrBandersnatch (544818) | about 12 years ago | (#3373280)

Actually I think writting off 3rd world debt and for developed countrys ( the USA especially ) to spend a larger percentage of their GDP on third world aid would be a little more help than Jesus in this situation.

Re:There are more important things they need (0, Offtopic)

xarfel (250123) | about 12 years ago | (#3373295)

oh my...can we say crusade? help is what they need; love, compassion, and help...leave the dieties/martyrs out of it.

Re:There are more important things they need (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373311)

Oh my, can we say troll? And you bit! Moron. Of course, now I bit on a troll of a troll, so I should now be sacked.

Re:There are more important things they need (0)

xarfel (250123) | about 12 years ago | (#3373366)

Gee...you're so smart, please forgive me for feeling.

Re:There are more important things they need (2)

david duncan scott (206421) | about 12 years ago | (#3373329)

Yeah, if Christianity could just take root in Latin America...

Besides, cell phones are often more widely used in third-world nations. They're only luxury goods if you already have a copper network in place. I'm quite sure that if we had it all do over again here in the States, we'd build cell towers rather than run thousands of miles of wire, just as many people are "building" WiFi LANs in their homes rather than running Cat5 through the walls.

Re:There are more important things they need (3, Informative)

mpe (36238) | about 12 years ago | (#3373349)

Why are we sending cell phones, a luxury product if ever there was one, to Third World nations

Because if you are starting from scratch it's a lot easier to set up a telephone system with cellular phones than it is to install lots of cable. It's also a lot quicker and cheaper to get a cellphone system back operational following a major natural disater or war.

Re:There are more important things they need (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373427)

Because if you are starting from scratch it's a lot easier to set up a telephone system with cellular phones than it is to install lots of cable.

I can second this, having recently seen a local tour guide happily chatting away on his cellphone... Amidst the dunes of the Sahara, in the south of Morocco.

Nearest land phone was miles away, and would have cost him many times what his cell call did.

Important Slashdot Announcement #@ +1 ; Hip @# (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373233)

420 Louis.

Bandwith (4, Insightful)

BrianGa (536442) | about 12 years ago | (#3373236)

Be careful of bandwith issues. Bandwidth will always be a problem. No matter how much bandwidth you add, no matter how big you make your highways, no matter how much oil you drill, people will always use as much as you make, even if it means wasting it or creating enough traffic to degrade the whole thing. There is no substitute for efficiency. A better license can compensate for inferior technology to only a minor degree.

Re:Bandwith (2, Interesting)

duffbeer703 (177751) | about 12 years ago | (#3373339)

Current market conditions do not support your assumptions.

There is such a glut of bandwidth right now, telecom carriers do not anticipate adding additional fiber until 2010.

Re:Bandwith (2, Interesting)

AnyLoveIsGoodLove (194208) | about 12 years ago | (#3373421)

This is bullsh*t. There is a HUGE glut of long haul fibre, but the metro areas are dying for more bandwidth. The congestion in places like NYC and DC is terrible. Does it matter if there's a glut of long haul fibre, if there is a "traffic jam" in your city?

nortel / lucent / cisco are all selling metro optical gear a healthy pace. They are not selling any long haul fibre.

The fibre "glut" is one of the biggest fallacies of the early 21st century.

Re:Bandwith (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373478)

No, that's incorrect. There is so much extra available bandwidth right now not in use, telecom carriers won't need to add any additional fiber until 2010.

Re:Bandwith (1)

AnyLoveIsGoodLove (194208) | about 12 years ago | (#3373684)

I usually don't reply to ACs, but I guess I'll make an exception: Here's a Forbes' article

http://www.forbes.com/2001/08/01/0801fiber.html

Re:Bandwith (3, Informative)

duffbeer703 (177751) | about 12 years ago | (#3373666)

Not quite.

The telecoms, in case you haven't noticed, are all in the process of going out of business. Industry giants like AT&T and Global Crossing are beginning the slow slide into bankruptcy and decline.

Metro optical gear is selling like hotcakes because the equipment allows companies to maintain their network without paying a huge premium to an upstream provider. Why should a firm pay $6000/mo for a connection when you can buy a $50,000 laser that has no monthly cost?

Re:Bandwith (1)

ErikZ (55491) | about 12 years ago | (#3373951)

A nitpick, but there's ALWAYS a monthly cost. Think "Hiring a Network Admin to maintain it."

Latency (2, Informative)

SloppyElvis (450156) | about 12 years ago | (#3373701)

In my admittedly limited experience with internet telephony, I have found that latency has been more of a problem than bandwidth. Presumably, your cyber cafes or universities are going to have enough bandwidth to support people using the internet for telephone use. After all, file sharing consumes more bandwidth than streaming voice does, and practically every geek on campus has been exploiting that technology. Compression of telephone-range frequency is good, because the frequency range required is not broad in the general sense of the term. I'm not pretending to be an expert here, but this is the impression I have gathered from my readings (so flame it up, if you have to)

However, IMHO, I have found it annoying to speak with people over the internet for the reason that the tempo of a conversation is often broken by having to wait for the person on the other side of the line to hear what you just said. I've taken this to be a latency-related issue, but hey I could be mistaken. At any rate, I'll stick with the telephone for now.

The whole idea of a telco is silly now (2, Interesting)

linzeal (197905) | about 12 years ago | (#3373241)

With enough upstream bandwidth not only will telcos be hurt but also content providers. You think the artificial 128k limit is there for any other reason? There is decades worth of dark fiber just laying in wait till the telcos and cable companies figure out how to charge you for it. The cost of the future infrastructure is mostly paid for though, they'll be sure to get their money back somehow.

Re:The whole idea of a telco is silly now (3, Informative)

chill (34294) | about 12 years ago | (#3373317)

Currently the cost of switching equipment to hook up that dark fiber is still outrageous. I may be able to get an unopened FORE Systems OC3 ATM card for my PC off of Ebay for $10, but the telco isn't going to get that price. They need port density, support, reliability, features, etc.

Cisco, Lucent, Nortel, etc. equipment for high-speed fiber is EXPENSIVE.

Re:The whole idea of a telco is silly now (1)

linzeal (197905) | about 12 years ago | (#3373440)

I don't think it would be as expensive if the telcos were buying the equipment needed for the fiber laid. This is all about supply and demand. The telcos wanted to milk their customers, the networking hardware companies wanted to milk the telcos, and the rest of the industry is busy whacking off eachother in one furious circle jerk to bankruptcy. The markup on some of the cisco/juniper/etc switches is insane even including r&d. Look at cisco, how many people do they employ, 10's of thousands? There is 0 reason for that many people for a single sector tech company. Most of the cost of the gear is for admin assistants and junior web designers wasting away in some obscure psuedo-functionary justification for some hyper inflated budget.

Re:The whole idea of a telco is silly now (1)

dachshund (300733) | about 12 years ago | (#3373397)

You think the artificial 128k limit is there for any other reason?

How much bandwidth do you think your cellphone is using? It's a lot less than 128K. The real issue limiting VoIP use is QoS, including latency.

Now, video-phone technology is certainly being limited by the limits on upstream bandwidth. But the market for that has so far been pretty limited.

User demographics (3, Insightful)

svindler (78075) | about 12 years ago | (#3373244)

I use Yahoo! Messenger to talk to a friend in the US regularly.
I "call" from Denmark, and he is not a college student.
Does that mean Denmark is a third world country or is my friend a geek?

Re:User demographics (1)

Denito (196701) | about 12 years ago | (#3373408)

Well, that's a tough choice.

You read slashdot, so your friend is by proxy somewhat likely to be a geek.

And about the 3rd world part..

Are you in Jutland or Sealand?

-Dennis in Copenhagen
:)

Obvious (2, Insightful)

morie (227571) | about 12 years ago | (#3373255)

It is cheap, so who's going to use it first? People with little money! When I was a student, I always knew where to get my bargains as well (now my time is worth more than the discount I recieve), and most of these people have a lot less to spend!

I am not particulary surprised at this.

Re:Obvious (1)

pmsr (560617) | about 12 years ago | (#3373539)

Or people with lot of money that want to have even more money. Rich people don't get rich by spending. :)

/Pedro

Telephone Companies (3, Interesting)

Dead Penis Bird (524912) | about 12 years ago | (#3373261)

And the telephone companies wonder why they are losing customers. They cannot compete against Internet telephony with regard to price. Why the telcos still charge those kind of rates always puzzled me, especially since calls are no routed by computers, at little cost.

This is good for a lot of these countries, since families often have relatives scatteered around the globe, and can use a low cost method to stay in touch (besides written communication, of course).

Re:Telephone Companies (2, Insightful)

AnyLoveIsGoodLove (194208) | about 12 years ago | (#3373469)

I am disturbed by the serious lack of understanding of basic Telecom on Slashdot. Why do people pay for USD 20 + for basic service (dial tone) in the US? Simple. It works and is never down. You want 911 on a DSL line. No Way. I am not trusting my family's safety to some DSL line.

3rd world countries are going to use the internet for phones, but it won't catch on a for a while (many many years) here in the US. The US is quality sensitive.

How many people have tried to unplug your land line and have just a cell phone. It sucks, even in areas where coverage is good.

Remember, the Telecom industry considers ethernet an immature techology.

Telecoms are in trouble because the margins on Data products are a lot less than voice products. As they increased the mix of data products to stay competive, their margins went to the crapper.

Not when the Telco owns the fibers (4, Informative)

Nurlman (448649) | about 12 years ago | (#3373546)

I don't know abotu Africa, but in a lot of developing countries, the state-owned telco monopoly is also the gatekeeper of internet connectivity.

I've had personal experience with the Republic of Palau in the Western Pacific. Palau National Commuinications Corp. owns the phone system, and also runs Palaunet, the only ISP on the island. (Good luck getting another ISP in when PNCC owns the access to the lines.)

Result: internet telephone calls are prohibited on Palaunet. (It's easy-- watch for bi-directional high-bandwitdth traffic, instead of uni-directional. So simultaneously uploading and downloading on a P2P will get your account a once-over, but that's life in the Third World.) Instead, you're forced to pay the egregiously expensive long distance voice rates.

Internet telephony only works if you've got an open communications industry. That's not true in a lot of developing countries, where the Government is footing the bill for all infrastructure, and wants to keep control of it for economic or political reasons.

It's hardly limited to the "Third World" (2, Insightful)

tibbetts (7769) | about 12 years ago | (#3373262)

Speaking from personal experience, my stepfather (in Virginia) uses VoIP to talk to his brother in England. And it's not just because of cost (since both of them are senior-level managers at a telco and a hardware vendor, respectively), but also because most of the time, they're online and in front of their computers anyway.

Re:It's hardly limited to the "Third World" (1)

0x0d0a (568518) | about 12 years ago | (#3373547)

Heh. One works at a telco, too. That's a pretty good endorsement of VoIP. :-)

That depends on the provider.. (1)

Sapphon (214287) | about 12 years ago | (#3373275)

Living in Germany and calling back home to my folks in Australia, I can substantially reduce my telephone costs from .80 Euro a minute to .05 Euro a minute simply by dialling a code to use a different operator (OneTel in this case)
This is by no means a situation limited to my location, cheap providers of overseas calls exist all around the world. Having experimented with telephone calls over the internet, I found my current option to be far more practical (since I can use it from any landline) and convinient.

All it takes is some quick research to find out the cheapest provider for your needs (a service a local computer mag kindly provides every fortnight)

Re:That depends on the provider.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3374126)

Remember that in most of the third world there are good ol' telecom monopolies which make sure through their buddies in govt there are no alternative providers. The process of getting there is political, long and painful. I know bc my country has been going exactly through this kind of shit. Only recently new providers have been ALLOWED to operate. And they most frequently use VoIP. Thank God for it. Incidentally, don't believe anybody who says you that "Third World is poor bc opressed by external forces blah blah". They (to a large extent still 'we') are full of corruption, monopolies and have economies that are free only on the facade.

you can call asia (-1)

trollercoaster (250101) | about 12 years ago | (#3373277)

and tell them:

"W0NG BR0THERS LAUNDRY SERVICE:
TW0 W0NGS CAN MAKE IT WHITE" and
"W0K-N-B0WL --
CHINESE F00D AND B0WLING."

ABOUT TIME (1)

dnoyeb (547705) | about 12 years ago | (#3373291)

So now everyone will have to face the reality that telephone service has been overcharging for years. Not only that but the internet can offer the same service for less money.

Say bye bye telcos. I hope those third world countries really save enough money from these large first world corporations to make a quality lifestyle change. I hope they take this opportunity to manage their own services and dont let USA bully and sanction and threaten their way into corporate control of the new technologies there.

Re:ABOUT TIME (5, Informative)

letxa2000 (215841) | about 12 years ago | (#3373395)

Say bye bye telcos.

That's what I've been saying for years. VoIP, while still definitely in its infancy, is just as much the future undoing of the LD industry as P2P is the undoing of the (current) music industry.

I hope those third world countries really save enough money from these large first world corporations to make a quality lifestyle change. I hope they take this opportunity to manage their own services and dont let USA bully and sanction and threaten their way into corporate control of the new technologies there.

I'm an American but currently live in Mexico. I don't know what you're talking about in terms of "these large first world corporations." If you are implying that American telco companies are robbing the poor in third world countries you are sadly mistaken--at least in Mexico.

Mexico has a terrible telephone monopoly, "Telmex." It historically has terrible quality and their prices are outrageous. It costs about 80 cents per minute for me to call the U.S. but only about 15 or 20 to call from the U.S. to Mexico. And Telmex is entirely a Mexican monopoly.

In fact, a few years ago the phone monopoly was "broken" by the Mexican government and competition was introduced. Both MCI and AT&T entered the market, and we even have competition in local service in many parts of Monterrey. However, Telmex is still the monopoly. Since most people get their phone lines with Telmex they generally get new subscribers to sign-up for their LD service. AT&T and MCI are at a distinct disadvantage and have even considered leaving the Mexican market because Telmex maintains its monopoly in fact, if not in law.

As is usually the case, problems in the third world--political and economic--are NOT the fault of the U.S. or other first-world countries. They are almost always the fault of powers closer to home. In this case, telco providers in Latin America make a killing because they either have a government-mandated monopoly, or the government allows competition but silently supports the original monopoly by not encouraging the competition or forcing the monopoly to act in non-monopolistic ways.

It's about god damn time! (4, Insightful)

petree (16551) | about 12 years ago | (#3373297)

It's about time we actually used this bandwidth towards something useful. This will most likely do one of two things:

1) Decrease the costs of traditional telephone service because they will need to compete with net based services.

2) Increase the costs associated with connections to the internet, because as people use more, the costs for everyone goes up.

I'm not sure which will actually occur, but I bet with services such as this [slashdot.org] around, you'll see a lot of broadband companies upset because they will want their piece of the action. If the average user starts using his/her connection for phone services too instead of just downloading, why are people so confused when they hear about price increases such as this [slashdot.org]. To me, it just makes sense, more people will use it for more things==service costs more to provide.

Now I'm just waiting for some level of QOS to implemented world wide for this sort of thing, that way my phone call doesn't wait for your warez. Know what I mean?

Re:It's about god damn time! (0, Troll)

user32.ExitWindowsEx (250475) | about 12 years ago | (#3373429)

No I don't. I'm a selfish SoB who thinks that you rphone call should wait for my downloads and that your downloads should wait for my phone call. And I'm damn proud of it.

(Mod me however. It's true, not flamebait. I have no compassion, sense of decency, or thought of anyone other thna myself.)

14c a minute here (2, Interesting)

tanveer1979 (530624) | about 12 years ago | (#3373300)

Here in India by telco its around 1$/min but on the net it is 14c and prices are dropping and soon may get to about 5c/min, I just hope quality improves :-)

Re:14c a minute here (4, Interesting)

slykens (85844) | about 12 years ago | (#3373570)

I have an office in India to which I deliver VoIP via a private network connection for call center use. I estimate our minimum per minute cost to be less than $0.01 including equipment and line charges. (Assuming 100% utilization, even if we come down to 40% utilization we're at $0.025/min)

And on top of that our voice quality is US toll quality or better, even with the quater second delay. If it were not illegal I would interconnect to the Indian PSTN and sell a calling card using excess capacity on my system.

It *is* possible for the telcos to embrace VoIP or a similar packet voice technology and integrate it into their SS7 or ISDN networks. Other than corruption of the PTTs I don't see why it isn't being done to lower costs and improve quality where appropriate.

Re:14c a minute here (1)

codezion (564387) | about 12 years ago | (#3373875)

The advantage that I see about commercial VoIP services is that the low rates are perfect for someone making calls TO the US. Whenever I see rate charts for International services to other countries, they are always very high (at least for India). They are about the same as what a good deal from a local long distance company provides. Is there a better service that gives better rates for calls going to other countries from the United States? I'm sure there is a way to set this up yourself instead of relying on those service providers.

hmmm.... (3, Interesting)

bemis (29806) | about 12 years ago | (#3373306)

seems odd that telco's would look at the popularity of "cheap" online alternatives and be upset, as opposed to altering their pricing schemes to be more appealing to "the populaces" ... ... just my two centabos.

Hate to be cynical .. (2, Insightful)

ProfMoriarty (518631) | about 12 years ago | (#3373321)

but since a lot of third-world governments run both the ISPs AND Telcos ... how long before they realize that they are losing money?

When they attempt to shut it down, will anything like Peek-a-booty [peek-a-booty.org] be able to come to the rescue?

The Internet has had an impact for me to (5, Interesting)

pmancini (20121) | about 12 years ago | (#3373325)

The Internet has really turned communication on its ear. I have a friend in the Ukraine that I chat with almost daily and every weekend we set up NetMeeting and have a video conference for a couple of hours. It costs neither of us any extra than what we already pay for our internet connection.

In fact the connection we get with NetMeeting is by far more reliable than using phones! Phone calls are (in my experience) about 25% likely to be unusable. They are also quite expensive. Even researching the best "10-10" numbers gets you down to about $0.22US per minute. Calling from Ukraine to the US is extremely expensive.

The Internet has made a lot of things possible that just 5 years ago were out of the hands of most people. The economy of calling that far and that cheap is amazing. When I was a kid I always wanted a video phone. The Web Cam is it.

I think the effect of wireless communication and integrated web communication will stall the growth of physical phone lines and we will start to see them disappear in a few decades. It seems to fit the natural order of how technology progressess. With 3G coming to Sprint PCS phones this summer and all the other carriers later this year and next year I predict that even how we connect to the Internet on a daily basis will change. I see the majority of IP traffic coming from wireless devices rather than desktop computers in 5 years time.

This can't last. (1)

mapnjd (92353) | about 12 years ago | (#3373345)

Ignoring the rest of the thrid world and concentrating on Africa a moment.

If the usage of net-phones increases in Africa, and the previous story [slashdot.org] was also true - someone somewhere is going to end up paying more. Seems a loss-maker in the making for third-world ISPs.

nic

PS. This comment clearly side-steps many, many obvious points. (e.g. the super-poor countries with no network connectivity; countries where no-one who can afford a phone-call of any price, etc., etc.) Please don't just state the obvious in any reply.

nic

QoS is the big issue here (3, Interesting)

tomstdenis (446163) | about 12 years ago | (#3373356)

Telcos in Canada must be up for "five 9's" a year. Thats a law not just a slogan. ISPs do not. Its perfectly legal for an ISP to be up only twice a week for 45mins at a time.

So the reason you pay 0.05$ a minute for a long distance call with your telco and next to nothing with an ISP [e.g. using some VoIP program] is because Telcos are reliable. I mean if I go and call a buddy in British Columbia I am fairly certain of a few things

a) The call will go through
b) The quality of the signal is consistent
c) There is no lag or strong echoes

If I call with an ISP I may not be able to reach him [e.g. local fiber problems.. stupid rogers], or my mic/speaker setup may sound too bad, or worse there may be annoying ping times.

If all you want is an informal chat with a buddy then VoIP programs are ok. But if you need to conduct reliable communcation then telco's are about all you have to choose from.

As towards third world countries perhaps the calls are so expensive because maintaining a relibable connection is costly.

Tom

Re:QoS is the big issue here (3, Informative)

mindstrm (20013) | about 12 years ago | (#3373423)

Yes, this is true.

As for more third-world countries and the like... let me assure you....

Okay, I live in Costa Rica. It's not even third world.. but my internet connection here is more reliable than my phone connection.

Re:QoS is the big issue here (3, Informative)

letxa2000 (215841) | about 12 years ago | (#3373433)

As towards third world countries perhaps the calls are so expensive because maintaining a relibable connection is costly.

Except in the worst third-world countries (which are technically, "fourth" and "fifth" world countries!), the technology is the same as that found in the U.S.

The difference is they have crashing monopolies and there is a cultural tendency in Latin America to steal every last "peso" you can. The owners of the telcos pay top government officials so they won't regulate the telcos, and the telco owners and top government officials earn major bucks at the expense of the phone-using public.

That's why calls are so expensive in Latin America, not because it is any harder to maintain a reliable connection.

Don't forget Monday were (1)

randomErr (172078) | about 12 years ago | (#3373363)

Don't forget Monday were SlashDot [slashdot.org] had an article about a hardware VoIP unit. You just plug the unit into your DSL or cable modem and your set. For $20 a month you can have 500 minutes of long distance, or $40 a month and you get unlimited long distance.

As an aside: I have mine on order, I should be getting the unit today. I checked my web interface and saw that I have had 3 telemarketer calls to my new number. A number which I have yet to be give out.

Re:Don't forget Monday were (2)

mark_lybarger (199098) | about 12 years ago | (#3373458)

i gotta say, that's a lot of freaking time on the phone there. talking for 500 minutes per month, ld on the phone? for personal home use? wow. that's over 8 hours.

i gave up oon long distance after getting slammed by the phone companies (sprint, at&t). i currently have no long distance on the phone, and use a 20$ 500 minute calling card from sam's club to make a long distance phone call. portable minutes too (yeah, yeah, the pay phones jack on additional charges, but it's still portable.)

personally i kinda like using voip to some degree (quick chats to family/friends), but it's a matter of a square peg through a round hole. ip isn't the be all end all. everyone is jumping on some HUGE internet hype and trying to put every service over ip. microsoft might have said it best when they said that IP may not be the best protocol for distributed applications.

Re:Don't forget Monday were (1)

0x0d0a (568518) | about 12 years ago | (#3373580)

Much as I like IP, it's a really bad protocol for stuff that requires real time delivery for proper quality.

OTOH, while IP may not be the *best* protocol for distributed apps, how many people use it directly? You work with something that sits on top of it, some communications layer designed for distributed work...say ACE [wustl.edu] and similar things. Generally distributed apps don't require real-time response, so it's not the end of the world if something takes a bit to go across the pipe.

my 2 cents... (per minute) (2)

supernova87a (532540) | about 12 years ago | (#3373375)

I have come to the conclusion that the telecom companies in the US are fighting a losing battle -- trying desperately to milk the last dollars out of a market and hoping that people don't have enough information to know that they're getting cheated royally.

Seriously, I get offers for long-distance in the mail for 7 cents a minute, or maybe 15 cents per minute "anytime", and they're trying to make it sound like they're doing me a favor. Then, when I decide that I'll go with a company like bigzoo [bigzoo.com] for my long-distance needs, then they tack on some very dubious "taxes" and "surcharges" onto my bill to recoup their losses. I mean, I have to pay, not to have a long distance carrier! Is this fraud or what?

The telecom companies know that they're fighting a losing battle. It would be nice if they got on board and tried to lead the technology revolution, instead of getting dragged behind it. But that's asking a little too much of them, I guess. In the meantime, let them get screwed for promulgating such a stupid business model -- preying on people's ignorance.

Well, all the better for students and the less priviliged people around the world. Hopefully, at least in this aspect, the internet will set them free.

Re:my 2 cents... (per minute) (2)

nolife (233813) | about 12 years ago | (#3374108)

then they tack on some very dubious "taxes" and "surcharges" onto my bill to recoup their losses

Choices..
I had this same issue with Verizon. I recently switched to AT&T calling cards that I got from from a warehouse club. Costco and Sams each have similar plans, Costco is MCI or Sprint, Sams is AT&T. Anyway I pay only .034/minute with absolutely no surchages, taxes, fees and limits, I can use them anywhere and they are rechargable via CC at the same rate.
This is much better then the .05 I was paying with MCI home service that after fees, taxes and other mysterious sucharges averaged out to over .15/minute.

To the point. After cancelling my MCI LD service on my line, I started getting extra charges by Verizon. $5/month for an interstate access fee, described via a customer service rep as "a fee authorized by the FCC that we charge because we [Verizon] are an interstate provider" and another fee for not having a LD provider, this was described as "a fee to block long distance calls, which could be avoided if I choose Verizon as my in-state LD provider" which in fact, has a higher per minute rate then my AT&T access card.
These are added to the growing list of monthly charges that I also pay for being unlisted and unpublished, tone dialing, the ability to cancel call waiting, access to run lines via public "right-of-way" which happens to run past underground on MY PROPERTY (so I pay them to let them use my yard) and whatever else they decide to add.
You can not win when it comes to the phone company.
Sorry for the rant, the more I thought about this the more angry I got.

How long until legislation? (2)

Darth Maul (19860) | about 12 years ago | (#3373409)

I wonder if in a few years, when internet telephony takes off here in the States, we'll see the telco's trying to push new legislation to ban or regulate it to make up for their lack of flexible business model.

You know, like the RIAA is doing? Gee, don't try to embrace new technology and make money off of it, just buy some legislation to make sure you may remain entrenched in your old ways...

Re:How long until legislation? (1)

ProfMoriarty (518631) | about 12 years ago | (#3373589)

If the telcos were smarter ... they would have been working on this since PGPhone and Net2Phone.

Fast forward a few years, I could see an "Internet Appliance" (I hate that term), being a phone hooked up to the net through a native ethernet connector, having its own IPv6 address. This address would correlate to a phone, regardless of who it is. This way, you buy a phone, you already have a number. Plug and play sort of thing. THEN it would be accepted by the masses, when you don't need alot of equipment/knowledge to set it up.

The current Telcos will either embrace new technologies, and become ISPs ... or, as you said, become like the **AA's of the world.

pgpfone (2, Interesting)

u01000101 (574295) | about 12 years ago | (#3373418)

I use pgpfone [pgpi.org], and I'm pretty happy with it. It's windows-only, but this drawback pales in front of the advantage of having a snooper-proof connection; I don't discuss state-secrets over it - I don't evan know *any* state-secret - but I grin each time I hear about "internet wiretapping" and "more powers to the cops"...

Reliability of service (2)

totallygeek (263191) | about 12 years ago | (#3373420)

Something that people need to consider is power. Don't forget that fiber cannot carry a charge, and therefore must be connected to powered equipment, unlike land lines. Not everyone has UPS equipment, generators, etc., and businesses (and some residents) need assurance of service in outages.

not just geeks and college kids (2, Interesting)

Jacer (574383) | about 12 years ago | (#3373439)

i've set it up for my mom, grandma, sister, and uncle.........and myself.....lots of free calls being a poor, geeky college kid doens't leave much money for family communication, the dorm is too small, i want to go home..........i also want to take the 10mb connection with me!

quote of the day (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373462)

'internet telephony "is used mostly by college students and geeks"'

The truth is you wouldn't know (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373503)

You wouldn't know if you're phone calls are being transferred over the internet. In actuality, a number of carriers shell out a good portion of their calls to internet telecom companies who then route your call over the internet to the destination. Don't get me wrong, you still get charged the premium price, but the big telco company gets the price break. This is really big for international cell phone calls. Think of the three biggest cell phone companies in the country, at least one of them uses their services for 1/3rd of their calls.

Vonova Corporation was one such internet telecom, but they've since changed their name. I'll leave that to you guys to figure it out.

?

Is wiretapping illegal on a netphone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373510)

Since it would appears that the govt can sniff traffic on the net, does a web phone fall under the telco wiretapping laws or the internet ones ?

My recent experience of this... (2, Informative)

jamieo (22197) | about 12 years ago | (#3373527)

I've just come back from spending a month in Nepal, a very poor country with limited telecommunications facilities.

In the larger cities (Kathmandu, Pokhara) you could call the UK over the internet for about 25-50Rs/minute. Using a traditional phone line costs 125-200Rs/minute. When I was there 10 years previous it was US$5/min!

The exchange rate is something like 72Rs to US$1.

The costs are differences aren't as much as this posting said, but it's still quite a saving.

Personally I shopped around for a cheap real phone call (125-150Rs/min) as the quality was so much better.

Voice from the trenches (4, Interesting)

Rogerborg (306625) | about 12 years ago | (#3373535)

I work on voice over IP telephony products, and I think that the market is ready to switch (pun intended).

SME's are figuring out that they can use their DSL lines to make net calls and video conferencing, and they're starting to ask (big time) exactly why they're paying per minute to make voice calls. And telcos are listening, and worrying.

There is a huge demand at the low end for true all-in-one products that encorporate an ethernet switch, DSL uplinks, a firewall and web server, handle IP-to-IP calls as well as IP-TDM, TWIF, ISDN (yuk), voicemail, door answer, that come with web browsing hardware phones and PC softphones and value added applications like videoconferencing. You would not believe the amount of software and hardware that we have in our current product; think 128Mb RAM, 128Mb compact flash, a 10 GB hard drive and a PCB that would make your head spin, in what's traditionally been a market for small (embedded devices.

And we're not developing this stuff simply because it's fun; there's a real demand from SME's for it. Initially we intended selling these boxes at retail (unheard of for a full featured telecomms switch); we've backed off from that now, simply because telco's are so keen to sell them as part of packages, because they know that if they don't, we will sell them at retail, and they'll lose a stack of voice money.

Note that the features that we enjoy today on residential lines - caller ID, call waiting, three party, callback - all came out of SME private branch exchanges. Telcos just realised that they could make extra money selling them to residential customers as well. They'll dig their heels in (hard) to stop us moving from TDM calls to VoiP, but - bearing in mind that once your call hits the local exchange, it hops to an IP backbone anyway - they can't hold out forever. Sooner or later, a residential provider will crack and start offering realistic VoiP to the home, and then all the rulebooks get ripped up. Roll on the day!

Re:Voice from the trenches (3, Informative)

Rogerborg (306625) | about 12 years ago | (#3373652)

Uh, of course, I blinked and missed that residential VoiP is already here [slashdot.org]. Yeee ha!

The TWIF-IP [cisco.com] adaptor bundled with this service supports two analog 'phones. Whee. Now picture one that'll talk to any DSL or cable uplink, has a 10/100 switched hub supporting 8 IP devices ('phones, PC's, NAS) with a DHCP server built in, that supports 6 analog devices ('phone, fax, trunks), any number of PC screenphones, that has a fully featured call control that provides any service you could imagine (and quite a few that you've never dreamed of), stores 10Gb of voicemail, and supports full RAS services (i.e. you can dial in to your home, then hop out from there, like a mini-ISP), all with a multi-lingual web based front end that you can access locally or remotely over IP or diallup. You want one? You know you do. ;-) You can't get one yet at retail, but give us another 18 months for the telco's to saturate their SME's with these [mitel.com], and you might see a version hitting retail.

Re:Voice from the trenches (2, Informative)

vern4of7 (262325) | about 12 years ago | (#3373860)

In the US voip is not moving at all at the enterprise level. The carriers got freaked out about started dropping their rates to prevent voip from being used for toll by pass domesticly. It does not provide a cost savings for corporations. If you notices Cisco's story on voip has changed, they are saying that you can reduce staff by having one common network with voice and data, you can reduce head count. There is no mention of the toll by pass.

Currently medium and larger companies have the ability to negoitate better rates then the residential rates. This is pretty key for preventing/slowing the deployment of voip.

The only easy savings that you can incurr from voip is conference calls. Most of the conference calling services are .17/min/line in the US. Pretty expensive. Using things like netmeeting or conference bridging features in voip systems you can significantly reduce this cost.

While in tech circles there is demand for voip, nobody (finance, etc) cares about this technology. These people are just looking at bottom line cost.

Speak Freely is a 100% free Internet telephone (3, Interesting)

PiotrK (16050) | about 12 years ago | (#3373536)

Speak Freely is a program that allows two or more people to conduct a real-time voice conference over the Internet or any other TCP/IP network. It supports a variety of compression protocols, such as GSM, ADPCM, LPC, and LPC-10. The cryptography-enabled version includes IDEA, DES, and limited PGP encryption capabilities for protecting the privacy of important voice conversations.
http://www.speakfreely.org/ [speakfreely.org]

VoIP illegal in some countries (5, Informative)

fruey (563914) | about 12 years ago | (#3373585)

All VoIP termination is illegal in Morocco. You are forced in as many ways as possible to not use VoIP over your Internet connection. H323 I think is blocked already, or has been and was removed afterwards.

VoIP termination is certainly illegal. Even though the phone company, who also have a monopoly on bandwidth, make money whatever you do. They're getting local call rates (Billed at $2 an hour inc taxes), bandwidth money from the ISP, and they still don't want to lose the international telephony deals, where they make ridiculous amounts of money.

All over Europe, telcos don't want to lose lucrative internation traffic. Real third world countries (rather than emerging economies) have neither enough bandwidth nor the latency required to provide adequate VoIP anyway.

However bandwidth in Morocco is pretty good. Check out www.tiboo.com for a site hosted in Morocco with high visits and reasonable serving of pages.

Time and Effort bah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3373617)

Oh yea, it sure takes a lot of effort to install one of these programs, I guess i'd better quit my job before I try. Oh thats right I don't have one, but I still don't have the time or effort. It's hard work doing nothing, always have to find something to do and then do that to.

Ask Slashdot... (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | about 12 years ago | (#3373620)

I've been playing with this recently using Linphone, a SIP client which works nicely, but...

Trouble is, I have a dynamic IP, and I haven't yet found a SIP address registry that works with linphone, and it's a bit of a pain to set up a routine to post my current IP to a webpage form (since I know my non-geek friends won't know what to do with it).

Has anybody found a registry that plays friendly with linphone?

What about the super-monopolies in the Caribbean? (1)

DispassionateObserve (540198) | about 12 years ago | (#3373627)

Has anyone found a cheap way to call the Turks & Caicos (British West Indies)? The local Cable and Wireless has a perfect monopoly, being on an island and all. The internet phone services are still pretty pricey.

I suppose it's fitting that it's $0.05/minute to the third-world, and $0.50 to an island of luxury villas...

Ow ow ow... (1)

The Mainframe (573877) | about 12 years ago | (#3373633)

This is embarrasing. Is the US ahead of other nations in any field now? I've been hoping for some access faster than 56k for a few years now, and I'm hearing that third-world countries can get voIP? Grrrrr.

Who needs big Telcos anyway? (2, Interesting)

ogreinside (223917) | about 12 years ago | (#3373646)

Specifically Southwestern Bell.

I can go on and on, but I'll tell you this: I do not have a phone at home anymore, and I have long since abandonded my much loved 5 static ips and dsl as well, in favor of dynamic-only port-80 blocked sometimes-slower-than-M$-fixes-security-holes cable modem.

And I'm MUCH happier.

I will never in my life use SWBell's services. If I am running from rabbid wolverines and my only chance of survival is to purchase SWBell local phone service, I'd rather dive into a swimming pool filled with double-edged razor blades, followed by having my face eaten off by said wolverines.

I only make calls through dialpad [dialpad.com], ($9.99 a month for 400 minutes). That's all my long distance AND all local calls. No incoming calls. My wife has gotten use to it. Sure beats $50/month for voice mail/caller id/call waiting/call waiting caller id/caller id call waiting calling/made up services to charge you extra in hopes you won't notice (slamming & cramming)/to just look at the caller id, and ignore the call.

Yeah, maybe it's a pain in the butt to connect the handset [communitech.com] everytime I need to make a call (that's what wireless+laptop is for), and 911 isn't supported (that's what cell phones are for). But at 2.5 cents a minute, (and best of all NO SWBell), I see no comparison. People just page me, and I call them back. It's a plus, because none of our friends/family have to use long distance to get a hold of us either.

Oh yeah, and no spam calls/wrong numbers either...

I haven't tried this [communitech.com] out yet, but it allows you to connect a regular (cordless) phone to your computer, eliminating the wire-fumbling.

OgreInsde

South Africa (3, Interesting)

Hasie (316698) | about 12 years ago | (#3373654)

Here in South Africa we have a statutory telecommunications monopoly. That means that by law nobody but our telecoms monopoly is allowed to provide telecoms resources. This has led to incredibly high costs with a 24% increase in local call rates earlier this year, for example. Our data rates were (and probably still are) among the top ten most expensive in the world in US dollar terms despite the fact that all expenses are in Rand (a weak currency).


This means that something like a net phone is a revelation in terms of cost. I have a friend who has been talking to his brother in Germany with a net phone for a while now. The only problem is that this is illegal because ISPs are not allowed to carry voice traffic! In fact the telecoms monopoly tried to destroy ISPs by citing a law that states that nobody is allowed to resell bandwidth. Fortunately the lost the case, but it was touch and go for a while.


My greatest sadness is that new technologies promise so much for countries like ours, but our government makes horrible mistakes like legislating a monopoly. If we can just learn to embrace new technologies and learn from trends round the world, we can rapidly pull ourselves to the front out of the mire we are in at the moment.

I want rj-11 hookup, and a local phone number (2)

peterdaly (123554) | about 12 years ago | (#3373746)

Here is what I want:

I want a service which will let me make phone calls to real phone numbers over my high speed broadband connection, using my existing telephone equipment (rj-11 cordless phone, etc.)

In addition, I would like to be able to recieve calls on it, using a number which would be free for people who live close to me to call.

Does such a service exist? I don't use my phone very often, and hate paying Verizon every month. I have a cable modem which usually gets very high thruput.

-Pete

Re:I want rj-11 hookup, and a local phone number (1)

RGRistroph (86936) | about 12 years ago | (#3373869)

I have not seen a cable modem telephone from these people, but I believe that Grande Communications [grandecom.com] offers that in some parts of Austin (bundled with broadband and cable channels). I can't see on the web page where it explicitly says that you don't need the old twisted pair wire, just your cable co-ax, but my understanding from talking to someone who was about to get it was that there was an rj-11 connector on the cable modem, or maybe on a separate box connected to the cable modem, with an rj-11 connector.

But the service doesn't seem all that cheap. I fail to see what AT&T, SBC, or any of these other people can't give me minimal local service for $8 to $16 a month. It seems to me that's what it should cost by now.

Why are these people complaining about 80 cents? (4, Funny)

Typingsux (65623) | about 12 years ago | (#3373791)

I am calling and paying 3.99 a minute to speak to a girl I don't know, but she tells me I'm her boyfriend. Yea. That's it.

There are other good ways to make cheap calls (2, Interesting)

JahToasted (517101) | about 12 years ago | (#3373877)

I live in Jamaica and am able to call my mother in Canada very cheaply ($0.08 a minute up to a maximum of $2.50 per call).

Depending on which country you're in YMMV, but I have found that using the canada direct service is fairly reliable and cheap. Basically you call 1-800-222-0016, and that gets you a line in canada, from there you can just use a calling card to place the call. So basically the call isn't going to cost more than a call within canada.

THe cool thing is seeing on the phone bill $50-60 in savings on a call that costs $2.50

Cayman Islands Phone (3, Interesting)

Technician (215283) | about 12 years ago | (#3373952)

The Cayman Islands has a phone monopoly protected by the government. I lived there for 3 years. In US dollars it was close to 1.50 per minute to call the US. We quickly learned to send our relatives money and have them call us at .30 - .50 per minute. The Cayman Islands likes to brag about being upscale by having the highest number of fax machines per capita. The reason for the large number of fax machines is due to the cost of a phone call. Nobody calls the states to get put into voice mail hell. They send a fax instead. Now that internet has reached the islands, I expect e-mail to replace fax unless spam gets too expensive to receive. Long distance charges are a good fax spam filter.

(begin RANT) Even 800 consumer service numbers are billed. I picked up my first copy of Windows 95 upgrade while there. (it was a few years ago) After installing it, it couldn't find the CD drive it was installed from, the modem, or the sound card. At 1.50 per minute for service, I simply chose to wipe the drive and recover the old OS from backups. I finaly upgraded after I returned to the US. An hour on the phone would have cost about what the upgrade cost. Dialup internet was about .30 per minute US. TOS prevented voice over internet. Needless to say very little browsing was done. Eudora was popular as the only client on many machines as a cheaper fax alternative. Connections were just long enough to send/receive mail. I never composed online. You can check out the current rates and terms of service at www.candw.ky The prices are not US dollars. 1.25 US will buy one CI dollar.(/RANT)

Dialpad (1)

slam smith (61863) | about 12 years ago | (#3373984)

I used to use dialpad when it was free, it wasn't too bad with dsl, but still you had to pretend it was a radio with a 2 second lag in it, when talking. Otherwise it sounded choppy and you would talk over each other and break up. Now adays i just get the 3.5 cent/min calling card from Costco. Just over two dollars per hour, and you don't have to pretend the people you are talking to are orbitting the moon.

And here's what I want... (2, Interesting)

KjetilK (186133) | about 12 years ago | (#3374068)

Since everybody's posting their ideas for future phones, here's what I want:

I want my computer to be a single point of access to phones. I want it to automatically choose the cheapest method for me, whether it is a local call over standard phones, VoIP, or something else.

There has to be some hardware involved, for instance, I guess I need a card that is capable of making a call over the classical phone lines. Could a modem be used for this?

Then I could have a single front-end in my house, for example, I'øø have a Bluetooth access point, connected to the computer. Then I have a Bluetooth headset lying around. If I put it on, there is voise recognition, so that I can say "call ma", and if the cheapest call to ma happens to be a local telephone call, the computer will use the telephone card to make that call. If it happens to be VoIP, it makes a VoIP call, if I have to call on her cell phone, it dials that number.

This "while-we're-waiting-for-VoIP" card that I have in mind, anybody know if that's easy to make?

Calling Honduras (2)

truthsearch (249536) | about 12 years ago | (#3374121)

Damn... I have to pay 10 cents a minute to call (via telco) the next state which is only a few miles away. But I can cut the middle-man and call the drug smuggler directly in Honduras for the same price! Mmmmmmm.... technology...

Reminds me of something.. (3, Interesting)

Mike Hicks (244) | about 12 years ago | (#3374131)

I recently read a short article that was written by a Jamaican back in 1995 or 1996. It discussed the availability of e-mail in Jamaica at the time. It turned out that e-mail was mostly being used to contact people outside of the region, and it wasn't being used to communicate locally.

I just wonder if this technology would do anything to foster local communities, rather than just connecting people over great distances. Certainly, talking to a relative who is away is important, but it's important to look at what can be done to improve the local infrastructure as well.

Don't Say "Third World" (1, Offtopic)

JMcJames (8496) | about 12 years ago | (#3374169)

Please don't use the term "Third World." It has roots in the 19th century racism and is derogatory at best. It refers to the time when Europe colonized much of Africa, Asia, and South America, and thought of the natives as little more than slaves or animals. A more accurate and humanizing term is "developing countries."

Also, for what it's worth, technically Europe is the "First World," and North America is the "Second World" or New World.
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