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Quark: Mac OS X Not Ready

pudge posted about 12 years ago | from the printing-is-so-1990s dept.

Graphics 57

blankmange writes "NewsFactor reports that Quark's QuarkXPress is not quite up-to-snuff under Mac OS X." Sources in the article claim Mac OS X still isn't quite there in regard to printing, or predictability. That is, I suppose, you don't mind crashes as long as you know when they are going to happen and what is going to cause them.

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57 comments

Where's the Quark Clone? (2, Insightful)

mshiltonj (220311) | about 12 years ago | (#3387189)

There's Gimp, Sketch, Killustator (I forget what it's called now; I use Gnome). But where is the Quark clone?!

Here's the Quark Clone! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3387576)

Note: this is a reprint for your enjoyment during the (Hopefully) Great Slashdot Blackout. Some links may no longer be active.

It has come to my attention that the entire Microsoft [urinalpoop.org] community is a hotbed of so called 'alternative sexuality,' which includes anything from hedonistic orgies to homosexuality to pedophilia.

What better way of demonstrating this than by looking at the hidden messages contained within the names of some of Windows' most outspoken advocates:

  • William Henry Gates [boomstick.com] is an anagram of 'Anal Might, we're sly,' clearly referring to the 'Gay Power' movement as well as pointing out the cleverness of his own anagram. Note also that the familiar 'Bill Gates' is an anagram of 'I get balls.'
  • Steve Ballmer [thock.com] needs no anagram - the request 'Ball Me' is clearly contained in his name. Obviously he is 'out of the closet.'
  • Craig Mundi [antiquated.org] , unbeknownst to most, added the 'e' onto his last name to cover up the anagram 'I cum in drag' which shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is a queer transvestite.


The incredible faggotry of the Microsoft [urinalpoop.org] community can also be seen in its software products. Internet Explorer sounds harmless enough, but on the Microsoft [urinalpoop.org] 'campus' (obviously a reference to the colleges and universities where these perverts first practiced their filthy homosexual behavior) it is referred to as 'InterNUT Explorer' and refers to a device used to tickle the sensitive area of the scrotum between the testicles.

Microsoft Exchange clearly refers to the 'exchange of bodily fluids' which is of course how these depraved specimens of humanity plan to transmit the AIDS virus to the rest of the world.

As far as William 'Homo' Gates goes, that filthy fudge-packer [conhugeco.org] was actually quoted in Time magazine as saying the following: "Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There's alot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning."

And this isn't a made up troll bullshit [conhugeco.org] either! He actually stated this tripe, which makes it obvious that he is trying to politely say that he's a God-forsaken homo slut!

Furthermore, Mr. Gaytes has been quoted as saying "There won't be anything we won't say to people to try and convince them that our way is the way to go," proving that the fag sympathisers are wrong, and these perverts really do want to recruit our fine young heterosexual boys and turn them into flaming queers like themselves.

Speaking about 'flaming,' who better to point out as a filthy chutney ferret than Microsoft [urinalpoop.org] 's own self-confessed homo pimp Craig Mundi(e). He has already confessed, nay boasted of his status as a gay sex pusher. To quote from an interview [planetit.com]
with Planet IT:

"One of the things we want to do and recognize that there's a market for [is] selling people services on a contract or recurring revenue basis, as opposed to traditional royalty bearing for the one-time shipment"

Selling 'people services,' eh? Is this why you were touching your penis [dickcity.com] in the cinema, Craig? And charging the other boys money to touch it too?

We should also point out that Craig has been referred to as 'Microsoft [urinalpoop.org] 's resident Gasbag.' Is there any more doubt? For those fortunate few who aren't aware of the list of homosexual terminology found inside the Windows 'Shared Sauce [dickcity.com] Philosophy,' a 'Gasbag' is a pervert who gains sexual gratification from having a thin straw inserted into his urethra (or to use the common parlance, 'piss-pipe'), then his homosexual lover blows firmly down the straw to inflate his scrotum. This is, of course, when he's not busy violating the dignity and copyright of small software companies
by gathering together their utilities and combining them en masse into the next version of Windows to further his twisted and manipulative agenda of world domination.

Sick, disgusting antichristian perverts, the lot of them.

In addition, many of the Windows error messages (an 'error message' is the most common way the faggots communicate) are full of homsexual slang. 'This program has performed an illegal operation' is their way of advertising that they have been engaged in the vile practice of sodomy [dickcity.com] . 'A fatal exception has occurred' is obviously stating that AIDS has claimed the life of another dick sucker [dickcity.com] . Rather than recognizing that the fag was properly punished for his deviant behavior, Microsoft [urinalpoop.org] -loving queers suggests giving a 'three finger salute' when this happens. Needless to say, this gesture of sympathy involves inserting three fingers into your rectum and farting loudly.

Another group of Windows anal violators [dickcity.com] , going by the code name 'Windows Update' ( ) encourage users to 'download' (receive into their rectums) 'service packs' (also known as 'fudge packs') and 'device drivers' (some sort of mechanical penis, I suspect).

The fags have even invented special tools to aid their faggotry! The program Outlook Express is an anagram of 'Super Sex Tool OK,' which obviously is an endorsement of all kinds of sick behaviors. And obviously PowerPoint is a motorized device for penetrating a virgin anal sphincter.

More evidence is in the fact that Windows users say how much they love 'My Computer.' They sometimes go so far as to say that all new Windows users (who are in fact just innocent heterosexuals indoctrinated by the gay propaganda) should use this icon. The correct spelling of this phrase can again be found in the 'Shared Sauce [dickcity.com] Philosophy.'
It is actually 'My cum pooter,' an endearing term used by dominant fags [goatse.cx] for their queer-love [goatse.cx]
partners. In no other system do users boast of frequently having their rectums pumped full of semen, then farting to expel the jism in a fine mist.

Other areas of the system also show Windows' inherit gayness. For example, people are often told of the 'C: prompt' but how many innocent heterosexual Linux users know what this actually means. The answer is shocking: Seek colon, prompt - a request given by a faggot to his partner when he desires immediate, deep penetration of his ass!

Even the icon 'Recycle Bin' originally referred to a homosexual practice. 'Recycle Bin' of course refers to the popular gay practice of using a young boy's anus as a repository for semen. Shortly after one disgusting faggot [goatse.cx] spews a load of hot jism into the boy's ass, another queer [goatse.cx] will lick the 'Shared Sauce [dickcity.com] ' back out of the 'Recycle Bin'.

To summarise: Windows is gay. 'Microsoft [urinalpoop.org] ' is the graphical description of the state of a fag's penis [goatse.cx] after he has spewed a load of hot sperm into his gay lover's mouth [dickcity.com] or rectum [dickcity.com] . And .NET is for hermaphrodites and disabled 'stumpers.'

Re: GEGL and GIMP 2.0 will address this, in part (2)

ubiquitin (28396) | about 12 years ago | (#3387728)

The next generation GIMP is being built on the GEGL library which will handle multiple color spaces (think CMYK needed for pre-press output.) What we need is a serious line art/page layout app that does CMYK.

Re:Where's the Quark Clone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3448908)

There is an attempt at a DTP programm. It's called Scribus and looks very similar to Quark. But it's still a long way from being ready for professional use.

Quark is too complacent (5, Insightful)

Spencerian (465343) | about 12 years ago | (#3387219)

Quark has milked its dominance in DTP for too long. Adobe tends to get its products polished by version 3, and its InDesign 2 product has received very positive reviews over QXP 5. The fact that QXP isn't supported natively in OS X is a nail in Quark's complacency coffin.

I'm not a big fan of QXP due to its history of annoying and serious bugs that caused all manner of stability and reliability problems. I do wish them success, but unfortunately they either have a lot of legacy issues or they really think that other companies won't be a problem while they take their sweet time to port. OS X's printing isn't perfect, but the fundamental PS support is there and works well enough, so that's a poor excuse.

Ask Lotus (1-2-3) about the consequences of complacency in the marketplace. Microsoft laughs all the way to the bank.

Re:Quark is too complacent (2)

cpeterso (19082) | about 12 years ago | (#3389572)


When was the last release of Quark? They seem to wait like 3-5 years between major releases, leaving their users frustrated with stale, buggy software. I think this is why people are so eager to adopt something new like Adobe's InDesign.

Re:Quark is too complacent (2)

Peter Trepan (572016) | about 12 years ago | (#3389929)

If only they were so eager! Even with outrageous pricing, bad tech support, late upgrades, and buggy software, Quark is still preferred by a landslide majority of service bureaus, and is the only thing they teach in graphic design school.

The last major release of Quark (5) [quark.com] was actually quite recent. It is not OS X compatible, but it does attempt to include web authoring capabilities, putting it into direct competition with Dreamweaver - a program that is more popular with web designers, easier to learn, more powerful, several hundred dollars cheaper, classic-mode compatible with OS X, and on the fast track to native support.

While Quark was working on their latest little gem, Apple ripped down their entire operating system architecture and started from scratch to build an operating system built on a different kernel, but able to work with with the same kind of interface, worked the bugs out to the point that it is now more stable than its predecessor, and able to run a native version of something as complex as Photoshop. And Quark accuses Apple of being inadequate. I know who I'd rather believe.

I wonder if Quark is really so clueless, or if their PHBs have settled into a de-facto retirement, and are just using their momentum to ride the gravy train until they run out of track.

Re:Quark is too complacent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3401816)

They also fired many major developers and software architects. They're screwed.

Sounds to me like... (5, Insightful)

ivan256 (17499) | about 12 years ago | (#3387230)

Sounds to me like they're making excuses while everybody [microsoft.com] else [adobe.com] seems to be having no [corel.com] trouble [filemaker.com] making their products work [aliaswavefront.com] under MacOS X.

Re:Sounds to me like... (2)

jilles (20976) | about 12 years ago | (#3387372)

It mostly depends on how large the market for a product is. Adobe for example has ported photoshop but hasn't and most likely will never port framemaker. Framemaker has so much legacy code in it, it is almost impossible to fundamentally change it. The recently announced 7.0 version for instance still has no multi level undo even though this is one of the most often requested features. Implementing multilevel undo would require changes to large parts of the code and is therefore not feasible. I suspect that Quark express has a similarly sized group of professional users and a similar amount of legacy code. Porting probably would cost more than it would ever pay back.

Re:Sounds to me like... (2)

daviddennis (10926) | about 12 years ago | (#3387482)

I don't have any inside knowledge here, but FrameMaker runs on MacOS 9, Windows and a passel of Unices. THere was even a port to Linux for a while, but I think it didn't sell.

I don't see why a port of FrameMaker would be any more difficult than, say, Photoshop (also with plenty of legacy code).

I seem to remember they're trying to expand use of FrameMaker, and I doubt they'd be able to do that without a MacOS X port in the pipeline. If it were a dying product, I'd say it would never get ported, but apparently it isn't.

I'd love to give it a try, but sadly it's just too expensive for casual use.

D

Re:Sounds to me like... (2)

jilles (20976) | about 12 years ago | (#3387624)

There's a difference between maing it run and making it blend in. Framemaker just runs.

Re:Sounds to me like... (1)

seann (307009) | about 12 years ago | (#3388156)

so because it doesn't have the pretty aqua theme, they won't port it?

Am I confused in to what your "Blend in" means?

Re:Sounds to me like... (2)

jilles (20976) | about 12 years ago | (#3388195)

No, because making it a proper behaving aqua app requires fundamental changes to the app they won't port it. The best we may expect in the future is that they make it compile on OS-X like they can make it compile on other operating systems. Beyond that more changes are unlikely.

Re:Sounds to me like... (1)

seann (307009) | about 12 years ago | (#3388610)

ohh..like that new polling thing I've been hearing about, the chocolate and vinila stuff.

Re:Sounds to me like... (2)

analog_line (465182) | about 12 years ago | (#3390494)

In the publishing world, there's Quark, and then there's a bunch of bit players. They're the 800 pound gorilla. PageMaker used to be good competition, but after Adobe ate up Aldus, it just nosedived.

And while I will agree that there are issues with high-end printing solutions (pretty much every week I head complaints about how this or that super expensive printer doesn't have OS X drivers) Quark is basically a thug. Their not releasing a Carbonized version of Quark along with their very public comments (in this article and many others...I sometimes wonder if they have a PR guy out there full time spreading the word that they're not supporting OS X) are a direct, intentionally public slap in the face for Apple. They want things done their way, and they're doing their best to exert every bit of control they can over Apple, because Quark is a very important application for Apple. There are many people who wouldn't be using a Mac save for Quark.

I've never liked Quark. They've been thugs as long as I've been forced to deal with them. Unfortunately I'm going to have to suck it up and deal with their thuggery, because suggesting InDesign to my clients would at best garner me a laugh, at worst they'd call someone else when they're having problems.

OS X will never be ready (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3387279)

Simply because it's not open source.
Open sourceing magically solves all software problems. Apple should use this magic too.

Re:OS X will never be ready (1, Redundant)

Dokushoka (570664) | about 12 years ago | (#3387715)

Umm....they do. You should do some research before you make posts. And besides, its not apple's fault that Quark isn't running on X.

Does this mean they need to add more bugs (4, Funny)

MarkusQ (450076) | about 12 years ago | (#3387299)

NewsFactor reports that Quark's QuarkXPress is not quite up-to-snuff under Mac OS X." Sources in the article claim Mac OS X still isn't quite there in regard to printing, or predictability. That is, I suppose, you don't mind crashes as long as you know when they are going to happen and what is going to cause them.

I'm having trouble parsing that last sentence. The only interpretation I can think of that (roughly) fits with the grammer and my understanding of the world is that Quark users will be disapointed under Mac OS X, since they are used to having their systems crash and knowing that Quark caused it, and now when their system crashes they won't know for sure if Quark caused it.

If that's the case, I can fix the problem easily. Just print out this post and patse the following line somewhere where you can refer to it often:

Trust me, it was Quark.

You're welcome.

-- MarkusQ

Re:Does this mean they need to add more bugs (2)

daviddennis (10926) | about 12 years ago | (#3387510)

I think the point is that crashes in MacOS 9 are more predictable and (thus) controllable than MacOS X. For instance, if you're using an application, and it's almost out of memory, you should save your work straight away and quit. If you do that every time an app is close to the end of its memory band, you won't get many crashes at all.

I'm sure there are plenty of printing operations that are simply too cheap to buy the expensive newer Macs capable of running MacOS X. I wouldn't be surprised if Quark's real position is that MacOS X software simply isn't as lean and mean as Quark, and making Quark MacOS X compatible would sacrifice that image.

I have never used Quark, seeing that I just about never print anyway, but that's my suspicion based on what I've read.

You sound like someone who's used Quark too much. What do you think of InDesign? The reviews make me think it's a lot nicer to work with. Maybe your press house should consider supporting it.

D

Re:Does this mean they need to add more bugs (2)

MarkusQ (450076) | about 12 years ago | (#3387784)


You sound like someone who's used Quark too much.

Yes, and far, far too late into the night trying to make a deadline on caffine and grim determination.

What do you think of InDesign? The reviews make me think it's a lot nicer to work with.

I haven't tried it, but you may well be right.

Maybe your press house should consider supporting it.

I was further upstream (downstream?) than that; I was stuck using Quark because that's what our printer accepted.

-- MarkusQ

Re:Does this mean they need to add more bugs (2)

daviddennis (10926) | about 12 years ago | (#3390705)

Try hiring a more flexible printer!

Apparently there has been an influx of InDesign users, but still not enough to make much of an impact. But the more there are, the more likely Quark is to face the cold winds of real competition.

D

Yup, sounds like Quark. Remeber floppies? (4, Interesting)

realgone (147744) | about 12 years ago | (#3387402)

They've got a history of being slow with this sort of thing. Anyone else remember the exquisite agonies of their software installation system?

Not too long ago, you needed both a floppy drive and a CD to install XPress 3.31(?) on your box. The CD contained all the app data, the floppy held the serialization info. (And there was yet another floppy for registration. You'd mail that disk directly to Quark after you were done.) Annoying, but you could live with it. But when Apple decided to go no-floppy across their entire product line -- ouch! Suddenly no one could install Quark on those beyoootiful new G3s for which they'd shelled out so much money. (Or at least not without buying some USB external floppy drives, which were hard-to-find early on.) And for months afterwards, Quark did next to nothing about this very obvious problem.

IIRC, they eventually settled it so you could send them a proof-of-purchase, your original program disks and a vial of blood harvested from a virgin under the full moon's light and get a CD-only version of the installer. But back at the time, it was a HUGE issue for a lot of bureaus and design shops.

Re:Yup, sounds like Quark. Remeber floppies? (2, Informative)

linuxbert (78156) | about 12 years ago | (#3387681)

there still like this, the hoops you jump through to exchange an adb dongle for a usb one, almost 4 years after the imac did away with ADB. Qurak has yet to catch on, that macs dont come with ADB Anymore

Re:Yup, sounds like Quark. Remeber floppies? (1)

seann (307009) | about 12 years ago | (#3388142)

This is the instances where running a cracked version would be acceptable, just hide it away when the Auditors come.

Almost anyone could moraly sleep at night, even jesus!

Re:Yup, sounds like Quark. Remeber floppies? (1)

Tycho (11893) | more than 11 years ago | (#3419877)

You know it wouldn't surprise me if the only reason Apple put an ADB port on the Blue and White G3, the first candy colored tower, was for Xpress users. Quark probably initially refused to make a USB dongle. They did this even though Apple owns the patents on ADB and at one time you had to ask Apple nicely to make ADB devices. The licensing agreement that Quark has with Apple for ADB probably made it impossible for Apple to force Quark to make a USB dongle initially at least. For that matter the latency timer for the ADB bus on the Blue and Whites is very high and makes devices such as keyboards, mice, or drawing tablets useless. Apple probably would have been happiest if they could have left ADB off those machines. Also anyone know how many years it took for Quark to make at least some parts of Xpress run as PowerPC native code?

Re:Yup, sounds like Quark. Remeber floppies? (1)

cei (107343) | about 12 years ago | (#3388522)

IIRC, they eventually settled it so you could send them a proof-of-purchase, your original program disks and a vial of blood harvested from a virgin under the full moon's light and get a CD-only version of the installer. But back at the time, it was a HUGE issue for a lot of bureaus and design shops.
You bet. Have you ever tried to find a virgin at a design shop? It's not easy. And the pasty service bureau employees don't always have the best veins...

Re:Yup, sounds like Quark. Remeber floppies? (1)

KillerKane (260666) | about 12 years ago | (#3389614)

People who had a clue solved that one pretty quickly, though. Just make a disk image of the floppy on a Mac that has a floppy, email it (or ftp or whatever) and mount it on the desktop. PITA, but works fine.

BTW, I've used XPress since its inception, and I hate it. I hope InDesign kills it fscking dead.

Quark die (2, Insightful)

Ioncable (575342) | about 12 years ago | (#3387475)

Quark has always been the bain of designers and Prepress. The only reason Designers use it is because prepress house asked them to. The only reason prepress uses it is because years back it was the only app that could output color sep film right from the app and a few other things and Pagemaker sucked for prepress. Quark has always raped its customers with costly tech support, expensive upgrades and really bad bug fixes that caused more problems then they fixed. If fact the company I work at just 12 months ago officaily switched to Xpress 4 because of all the problems. I hope InDesign gets a following. I've looked at Xpress 5 but it's more of a 4.3 release in my opinion. Quark was in the right place at the right time and nothing else. Aldus dropped the ball with Pagemaker and fell on hard times when it had the opportunity to kill Quark. Any problems Quark has with Mac OS X is all Quark and bad programming on their part. The only app I have that crashes my OS 9 mac. The only reason I would want it on OS X is so I don't have to reboot all the time.

Re:Quark die (2)

cosmo7 (325616) | about 12 years ago | (#3387846)

I think bane is a little strong. XPress owns what used to be called DTP ( ie: back when non-desktop publishing existed) because it offered a level of precision missing from its then competitor PageMaker.

The success of the package is pretty much accidental. It was originally written as a word processor for the (hopelessly unsuccessful) Apple ///.

XPress on Mac is now the status quo in print production; freelancers, art directors, designers - pretty much anyone who is serious - uses it and the QPS workflow software. XPress also has a mature plug-in market which is another barrier to competitors.

On the other hand, Quark's screw-up in moving to OSX is the best opportunity for a competitor since the mid-nineties when XPress seemed stuck at version 3.1

Re:Quark die (2, Insightful)

Ioncable (575342) | about 12 years ago | (#3390240)

Xpress is the status quo, but that doesn't make it good. It's an ok app, I have used it everyday for about 8 years. My point is that the apps success was accidental and the company is horrible. The app itself really hasn't grown at all since version 3.3. It became the status quo for 1 reason: When Xpress and Pagemaker started the market share battle. Xpress had DCS EPS files and could output color separated film right from the app and had rudamentary trapping. Pagemaker required Preprint or Trapwise to separate a file. There were a few other things Xpress did, but the real one was the Output. Prepress and Printing Companies loved it and "forced" it on to the designers. Most early designers prefered Pagemaker, it was the Prepress people that got them to switch to Xpress. If Adobe can offer Indesign with the features that Xpress requies Xtension for they could start to capture market, because the Xtension have to be rewritten for 5 and OS X.

Re:Quark die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3390367)

I agree mostly with what your saying, ive been in the advertising business for 10 years now, and havent used Pagemaker since version 1 (we used to have a boxed quarkxpress 1 somewhere) i FAR prefered the way xpress worked to pagemaker, i never got on with the PM gui. Quark are a pretty damn shite company, possibly the M$ of dtp, anyway i remember upgrading to powerpc and having to pay LOADS for that and quark marketing the powerpc and normal upgrades (from 3.2 to 4 i think) as separate (even priced differently) but both versions being in the box I MAY be hazy with anger on that but im pretty sure im right). we never upgraded for 1 year + after 4 came out as it was so unstable, and here we are 4 years + later still on QXP 4.
i cant see us changing to indesign in any hurry, as you state, our deadlines are far to tight to be worrying about possible problems which might crop up in the change over, like unexpected errors, or just not knowing the software as well. we barely have enough time as it is.
so, good luck to adobe, but i think well stay with QXP, i just wish theyd get off their asses and carbonise it. i got an email back from Quark confirming no carbon until v6, that will be 6-8 years away in normal Quark upgrade times.
oh, and BTW, the floppy install with no floppy drive is easy! you just make a disk image on a floppyd mac and transfer the file over the network! (i dont think it was you that mention that though.)

Re:Quark die (1)

DavidRavenMoon (515513) | about 12 years ago | (#3394756)

The success of the package is pretty much accidental. It was originally written as a word processor for the (hopelessly unsuccessful) Apple ///.

Close. Quark wrote MacWrite Pro, which was a word processor, for the first Macintosh. XPress was never a word processor and didn't run on an Apple ///. XPress came out much later, after Aldus Pagemaker.

Ironically, since Quark knows how to write word processors, you would think they could make importing MS Word files work properly!

Plus it took them until version 5 to get table support in XPress.

Re:Quark die (0)

Gropo (445879) | more than 11 years ago | (#3415984)

Speaking of InDesign,

I just did a job that entailed copying-pasting roughly 6000 column data-sets from an Excel spreadsheet in to a design layout. I originally tackled the problem in InDesign, because it allows very useful "import text filters" that allowed me to pre-emptively edit out extra cell-data and the likes. It took me 6 hours all together.

But they needed it in Quark format... Let's just say, 25 hours later I'm not a very happy camper.

Quark must die die DIE DIE... ahem, pardon me.

Quark is a dinosaur (3, Insightful)

theolein (316044) | about 12 years ago | (#3387858)

If there is any company that is worse in terms of upgrades, stability problems, costs and user support than Quark (including, believe it or not Microsoft) I'ld like to hear it. The other posters here are dead on: The company has raped and abused it's monopoly in Prepress for years and doesn't care the slightest about customer opinion. However, Prepress houses and Printers have not helped at all because if there was ever a conservative, stuck_in_the_mud group of software users it's those people in Prepress. On the one hand they work in an industry that is already entrenched and has a set work flow and extremely tight deadlines to meet (worked there myself) and is thus unwilling to take the risks of trying out new processes that could entail stoppages in the process. On the other hand, this (and I've witnessed this myself) is a group that gets upset because InDesign has different keyboard shortcuts to XPress and then decides that InDesign is "too different" and switches back to XPress.

On top of this most editorial bureaus are stuck with that Pig of a software editorial system: CopyDesk, even though it is typical Quark slow, crashware. Adobe has an answer solution and hopefully this will stimulate the market somewhat.

I have my own beef with Quark as regards the mFactory mTropolis Multimedia Tool that Quark bought up in an attempt to get into that market when their own useless POS, XPress_coupled Immedia didn't get anywhere. They provided no marketing, no support and no development of the tool which then consequently and unsurprisingly didn't expand it's user base. The brilliance of mTropolis can not be overstated in that, even now, 5 years after Quark killed it, there is an *expanding* user group on yahoo groups.

After Quark killed the tool, the user base tried various methods to get the source or at least a development licence from Quark to no avail. Apart from the one million dollar price tag that Quark put on the dead code (which the user group could obviously not afford) they stipulated that "all negative comments pertaining to Quark" must cease before they would think about it because there was such an outcry.

I do *not* wish that company well.

Re:Quark is a dinosaur (1)

Alan Partridge (516639) | about 12 years ago | (#3388056)

oh, amen about mtropolis. Killing that wonderful tool ranks alongside the death of the Newton in my book. Quark should be killed for that. The only thing sadder was the the suicide of Metatools - why would any company like that kick out the guy with all the ideas and sell all the great products to idiots like Corel? God knows.

Quark shortcuts in InDesign (1)

Slur (61510) | about 12 years ago | (#3389803)

Wow, too bad they dumped InDesign before they figured out that InDesign supports Quark keyboard shortcuts as a preference option.

Re:Quark is a dinosaur (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3395210)

Your arguments about mTropolis strike a familiar cord. Before you go throwing all your support behind Adobe, you might wish to speak with some die-hard Framemaker users. After it's purchase by Adobe it has gone no where. It has gotten slower and less stable with each release, the Linux version was cancelled, the Macintosh version has begun lagging behind Windows in functionality, and there is no mention of support for OSX aside from, "not in this release." I think this just goes to show, you can't trust large companies to do anything other than try to make money.

Re:Quark is a dinosaur (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3398222)

On the one hand they work in an industry that is already entrenched and has a set work flow and extremely tight deadlines to meet (worked there myself) and is thus unwilling to take the risks of trying out new processes that could entail stoppages in the process. On the other hand, this (and I've witnessed this myself) is a group that gets upset because InDesign has different keyboard shortcuts to XPress and then decides that InDesign is "too different" and switches back to XPress.

Aren't these from the "same hand" to use the damn metaphor?

mTropolis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3402545)

I thought that the developers did manage to scare up something like 750k of that 1 million, Quark still said no.

To this day, that was the best damn app I have used for any purpose on any platform.

I feel sorry for the mTrop developers who got sucked into working for Quark. (Wonder if any of them are still there)

Quark has no soul.

Everybody just chill! (3, Insightful)

pr0t0 (216378) | about 12 years ago | (#3388814)

If you don't work in the industry (apologies to those that do), try to understand...we don't use desktop equipment, we use ultra-high-end hardware solutions from Heidelberg, AGFA, ABDick, Kodak and the like that don't change at the rate of OS architecture. Most of us have highly involved workflows that work, and we aren't going to change for the sake of changing, it has to be better - not different. OSX, while I think it's awesome and can't wait to implement it here in our business, is no where near ready for my industry. You can get files to print to your Epson? Rock on! But there is no way it's going to interface with the Harlequin RIP software sitting on the NT box (don't bother, it wasn't my decision!) that is connected to the ABDick digital plate maker. And that output device prints 99% of the plates we put on the press.

As for the Quark vs. Adobe(PM, InD) argument, that could be changing. Adobe burned some bridges by stating there was not going to be future updates on Pagemaker and then shoveling that POS InDesign 1.0 to us. But InDesign 2.0 is very cool! I like it alot and I'm using it more. Quark Killer? I don't think so. But it might split my project load with Quark.

I use hammers to pound nails, and screwdrivers to turn screws. I'll use the software that works best for the job at hand...and none of them do everything perfectly, so save religion for church!
--
I'm sorry, but your opininion seems to be wrong.

Re:Everybody just chill! (1)

Ioncable (575342) | about 12 years ago | (#3390311)

Funny, I've been running OS X in a Scitex Brisque Environment for test from months. Got no problems even with classic apps. I miss some OS 9 only scitex tools for searching our massive Ripro Servers and Presstouch editing software doesn't work, but everything else works like a champ. I just ran a test job from InDesign 2 in OS X all ok from Mac to Brisque to Kodak Approval(Proof) to Dolev(Film) to Lotem(Plate). I can do that from Xpress to but it runs in Classic. What is really great is I can manage my Ripro Server and Brisques (all unix) right from the terminal in OS X by telenet.

whatever (3, Funny)

j09824 (572485) | about 12 years ago | (#3392584)

we use ultra-high-end hardware solutions from Heidelberg, AGFA, ABDick, Kodak and the like that don't change at the rate of OS architecture.

What's all that stuff good for? Almost all printed matter that I come across that is actually worth reading is black-and-white, has a simple layout, simple fonts, and simple typesetting. High-end typesetting seems like an obsession akin to high-end sports cars or expensive antiques. And for high-quality color images, I rather go on-line.

Re:whatever (3, Insightful)

DavidRavenMoon (515513) | about 12 years ago | (#3394606)

What's all that stuff good for? Almost all printed matter that I come across that is actually worth reading is black-and-white, has a simple layout, simple fonts, and simple typesetting.

You never read magazines? Or even newspapers? How about that box of cookies? The package your latest computer game came in? Music CDs?

All that stuff was done using this type of gear, and probably done in Quark, Illustrator, Photoshop, et al. Even that simple stuff.

Yeah, I work in the industry too...

Getting back to the Quark discussion, they have always had contempt for anyone but them selves. The CEO once said all their customers were crooks! I use the program everyday. I think it's a great program, BUT it's still riddled with bugs, and the fact that they didn't do an OS X version is just crazy. Anything they say is just an excuse to cover their ass. At home I run OS X 99% of the time, only booting into 9.2.2 to run Cubase VST. I use InDesign 2.0 now, and it's a great program. I don't miss Quark at all.

At work we are still using 9.1 and Quark ... but that will change at some point.

Re:whatever (2)

j09824 (572485) | about 12 years ago | (#3395842)

You never read magazines? Or even newspapers? How about that box of cookies? The package your latest computer game came in? Music CDs?

No, generally, I don't. News is now conveniently available on-line, and all the other stuff is just packaging. Fancy packaging generally suggests a lack of good content to me, and publishers would be better off keeping things simple as far as I'm concerned.

Re:whatever (1)

DavidRavenMoon (515513) | about 12 years ago | (#3396052)

No, generally, I don't. News is now conveniently available on-line, and all the other stuff is just packaging. Fancy packaging generally suggests a lack of good content to me, and publishers would be better off keeping things simple as far as I'm concerned.

Guess you don't read books then either huh? That's pretty dull, if you ask me. Not everything is news, and you usually can't get all the content online. My point was that everything you see around you that is printed probably made it's way past one of these programs (and was most likely created on a Mac too)! I think most people would object if everything looked like it came from a typewriter.

Fancy packaging is all part of the presentation, just like eating at a nice restaurant vs. Burger King.

Good design is art. There is more to life than the bare essentials.

Re:whatever (1)

Maledictus (52013) | about 12 years ago | (#3397806)

Oh, I see...you make it a point to buy flour and sugar in single-color packages and then you bake your own cookies. You live a print-free life. You're a hermit. You somehow manage to completely avoid the 4th largest contributor to the US GNP.

For what it's worth, the phrase that can strike fear in any prepress dept's heart is: "...it's just a simple one-color job..."

(Lately our black-only cheap-and-cheezy stuff has been going to a Canon high-speed toner on paper printer that probably cost more than any of us will make before retirement.)

Quark lost my business years ago (1)

yopu (575433) | about 12 years ago | (#3389402)

I was a devoted QuarkXPress user from version 1; it was so much better (mostly more stable and better at printing) than PageMaker (then from Aldus), even given early limitations such as the inability to copy and past boxes. But three things happened to make me abandon the application. (1) Poor customer service. I got tired of paying US$25 every time I wanted a simple question answered. And though I was honest enough to buy my own copy for personal use, I felt I was always treated with suspicion. While studying in the UK, I upgraded to System 7.5 and found that my copy of QuarkXPress would no longer work. I called support and they threatened to revoke my license since I was not "authorized" to run on the British system. This struck me as draconian. (2) Exhorbitant upgrade pricing. I could "cross-grade" to InDesign for less than the cost of the upgrade to the latest version of QuarkXPress. Quark is the only company I ever saw that considered a PowerPC version of their software an upgrade in and of itself; so one had to buy a "double upgrade" to PPC and the latest version. As I recall this was over US$600. (3) OS X support. For anyone paying attention, as soon as the details of Carbon became common knowledge the troubles Quark would have porting to OS X should have been obvious. QuarkXPress has always used non-standard controls; even version 4 (not sure about 5) used a faked/hacked System 7 scroll bar appearance even on OS 8/9. It seemed to me that there were so many aspects of the program like this that "carbonizing" it would actually require significant rewriting, unlike most apps that used standard toolbox routines. Unfortunately it looks like the hesitation to go to InDesign is going to be a major drag on moving Apple's installed base in one of its most important markets (pre-press) to OS X. But I'm sure it will happen.

Re:Quark lost my business years ago (1)

DavidRavenMoon (515513) | about 12 years ago | (#3395019)

QuarkXPress has always used non-standard controls; even version 4 (not sure about 5) used a faked/hacked System 7 scroll bar appearance even on OS 8/9. It seemed to me that there were so many aspects of the program like this that "carbonizing" it would actually require significant rewriting, unlike most apps that used standard toolbox routines.

Exactly! This is why they don't have an OS X version yet, and they are blaming it on Apple!

Quark has basically been a hack of a program all these years.

We haven't upgraded to 5 yet here at work, but I did use the public beta version, and yes, they finally updated Quark to look like System 8! I bet the widgets use some hard coded WDEFs instead of the Mac Toolbox though! They say the next version will run on OS X... in another three years maybe?

Long live PageMaker (1)

bandix (184495) | about 12 years ago | (#3390841)

I've never been able to get down wit' Quark. I don't do a lot of DTP, but at one time I did and at that time I was all about some Aldus PageMaker 5.0. The first couple of revisions after Adobe bought it were okay as well. Nowadays whenever I want to do any DTP I find myself staring at the same battered old copy of Aldus PageMaker 5.0 running under Wine's excellent Win16 support on my FreeBSD box. =P

Quark as an App (1)

talentless_hack (571588) | about 12 years ago | (#3391772)

Quark as a program does not use any modern features that photoshop/office 2001 uses.

It's still got the same open and save boxes as we used when we had 80s punkrocker haircuts.

It needs more upgrading than most apps to work on OS X.

I may very well switch, but not this year. (2, Insightful)

SandSpider (60727) | about 12 years ago | (#3392171)

There's something to be said for not interrupting the production environment unnecessarily. If you have to put out a weekly or daily publication, then you really don't want anything that's going to cause a serious delay. You have to test everything to make sure it works, and you have to give your production people enough time to train and become proficient before you force them to switch over. Otherwise, you might not have a paper come the next week.


More and more Presses are accepting PDF files these days, so it's not as big of an issue if they don't carry InDesign. More troublesome is if you receive ads from clients that are in Quark, and you have to maintain both programs (and, consequently, both environments), just to be able to accept the ads.


Also, there's the consideration of the various plugins (or XTensions, if you are speaking specifically of Quark), as well as applescripts and the like. You lose whatever you had for customized workflow when you switch, so there has to be time to get everything working in a reasonably similar manner before you switch. If you have a database driven workflow, breaking that is seriously going to suck. On the other hand, chances are that Quark will only upgrade 5 to OS X, not 4, so it will break all of the plugins anyways.


Finally, there's the budget. In my case, I'm not going to be able to afford all of the upgrades until next year, chances are. I'm not in a big rush to go to OS X, but it's definitely in the plans. I want to stop the computer from crashing. If an app drops out here and there, no big deal, but if I can reduce the number of restarts per day to close to 0, then I will consider that a huge win. The question is, which will be the better program when it's time to switch? Even given my time frame, I bet it'll be InDesign.


=Brian

From a software developer, and user standpoint (1)

qurob (543434) | about 12 years ago | (#3394752)

Quark is a ugly, horrid, slow, piece of junk software.

But what else is there?

Quark's Nebulus Industrial Crap (1)

Cheesewhiz (61745) | about 12 years ago | (#3397892)

I wouldn't touch it with an iMac on a 10 foot pole if I had a tanzanian devil monkey gnawing through my arm.

typical (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3408655)

I really must wonder, why does quark sound more and more like Micro$oft? They seem to think that the world will march to their tune. I hate to inform them, but it wont. Apple is commited to osX. It IS their new OS. And, working for an apple specialist, I preach that fact every day. At some point in the future, just like with previous versions of the os, apple will stop shipping 9 on machines. then, 9 will stop being updated. When 98% of the application base is osX compliant, 9 will be useless. Christ, I've been 100% osX for several months now. I havent loaded 9 at all. Now, realize that being a service provider and a sales consultant, my machine has to be able to do everything. what a surprise, it does! Quark has to make a decision, fish or cut bait. they either write their app for osX or they call it a day. Everyone else made the smart choice. And, when presented with a stable environment that, most people have made the obvious choice. No, I wont go back to 9. Niether will apple. Quark can either make the switch or get left behind. Adobe knows this and I'm sure they'll be glad to pick up the slack.

Introduction to writing Plug-Ins for InDesign (1)

marknr (577974) | more than 11 years ago | (#3468318)

If you're a programmer reading about QuarkXPress, you might be interested in learning more about writing InDesign Plug-ins. On May 7th, Adobe will run two sessions focused on creating plug-ins for Adobe InDesign. (One session will be in Japanese, the other will be in English.) Both sessions will provide a one and one-half hour overview on how to get started, and will approach the subject from a programmers point of view. (We'll keep the marketing to an absolute minimum!) Here are some details you'll want to know:
  1. The sessions run concurrently from 6:30 pm to 8:00 pm on Tuesday, May 7th.
  2. One session will be presented in Japanese, the other session in English.
  3. There is no cost to attend this session.
  4. The sessions will be held at Adobe Headquarters in San Jose, located at 345 Park Ave, San Jose, CA 95110. This is two blocks from the San Jose convention center. Watch for signs in the Adobe entrance at Park Ave and Almaden Blvd. You can find a map to Adobe Headquarters at http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pdfs/sjmap.pdf
  5. Although the session is open, there is a limit to the number of people that we can admit. Admission will be open until we fill the capacity of the room.
  6. We assume that you have a basic knowledge of Macintosh Programming.
  7. Any questions can be directed to... - In Japan - InDesign-J DevTech Engineer, Ken Sadahiro (sadahiro@adobe.com) - Everywhere else - Mark Niemann-Ross, Developer evangelist for InDesign. mnr@adobe.com, phone: 503/860-2183
LINKS:

For more information about creating plug-ins for Adobe products, go to:

  • For Japan - http://www.adobe.co.jp/partners/asn/main.html
  • Everywhere else - http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/main.html

For more information about Adobe InDesign, go to:

  • For Japan - http://www.adobe.co.jp/products/indesign
  • For everywhere else - http://www.adobe.com/products/indesign/
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