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Gates Testifies in Antitrust Suit

CmdrTaco posted about 12 years ago | from the man-takes-the-stand dept.

488

teamhasnoi writes "Bill Gates is testifying today in the Microsoft antitrust case. Here's the 5 page executive summary (pdf) and here's the 163-page full version (1.1 MB pdf). Bill waxes on about the early days, talks about .NET, xml, and why Microsoft should not be penalized for its role as 800 lb. Gorilla. (Developers, Developers, Developers)" Other readers point to the BBC story on Gates' testimony, as well as a similar one at Yahoo!.

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488 comments

Have you heart the news? (-1)

Rock 'N' Troll (566273) | about 12 years ago | (#3389668)

Bill Goatse and Anal Cocks are making sweet manlove in the basement. Don't believe me? See for yourself!

something important (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389676)

fp, thanks!

Another story ... (3, Informative)

ProfMoriarty (518631) | about 12 years ago | (#3389682)

is on MSNBC [msnbc.com]

Re: Why Bother (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389715)

Seriously, why bother. The way the govt's going its pretty much foretold that MS will survive unscathed. It looks impossible that *anyone* or *anything* will stop the Microsoft steamroller.

Unless a lot of changes happen in the Linux world (attitude changes, improvements in desktop usability, improvements in the installation process)

AND

regular users start to become pressured by Microsoft's policies in ways that *directly* affect them...(i.e. people soon become unable to pirate MS products...)

NOTHING will change. Almost no 'normal' user I know chooses Linux - only people who love to tinker with their systems.

I wonder how long it will take before I get modded down for not toeing the party line...a few mins?

Re: Why Bother (3, Interesting)

Warped-Reality (125140) | about 12 years ago | (#3389768)

Heres how I feel:
DON'T use linux in the "average joe-shmoe desktop environment". At least not in the conventional way.

Instead, get a project going to make an OS _targeted_ for the desktop. Even feel free to use Linux/*BSD kernels and librarys. Just don't have what the normal Linux distro tends to be - A very UNIX like system with X and maybe KDE or GNOME slapped on top.

Re: Why Bother (5, Insightful)

doooras (543177) | about 12 years ago | (#3389809)

you mean like Mac OS X?

Re: Why Bother (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389846)

Sort of, but we were thinking of an OS that runs on real people's computers, not desktop wannabe-crays that cost more than a new car.

Re: Why Bother (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389811)

The problem is if you mention that there are problems with the current way of doing two things you get the following responses:

1) Linux is not hard, Windows is
2) Linux is so much better than MS in so many ways!
3) Who cares about (l)users [their (l) not mine], since they are computer illiterate they are *obviously* stupid
4) The current way is the best way!!! There is *no* possible way to get better

Bah

Re:Another story ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389736)

Someone mod this Funny!

Re:Another story ... (0, Offtopic)

ImaLamer (260199) | about 12 years ago | (#3389779)

Karma Whore!

And posting the MSNBC article at that!

Re:Another story ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389872)

Now if Karma would actually be USEFUL for something ...

Re:Another story ... (1)

stagmeister (575321) | about 12 years ago | (#3389790)

I think that MSNBC articles about MS are actually pretty objective. The reasoning, i think, is precisely that it *is* owned by MS, and they don't want it to look like they're using it to push their products because people would accuse them of doing that and then nobody would watch it because who wants to watch an overtly biased (and with a motive too) news network?

Re:Another story ... (5, Funny)

MonkeyBot (545313) | about 12 years ago | (#3389841)

One person who was there said that Mr. Gates cried; another described him as choked up and shaking.

I'll pay for a video of this!

Bill Gates needs help with Blackout! (-1, Offtopic)

mwalker (66677) | about 12 years ago | (#3389684)

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+- +- + +- +- +- +-+- +- +- +- + +- +- +- +-+- +- +-+- +
|##|##|##|32| | | |##|##|##| |##|##|33| |34|##| |##|##|
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+-+-+- +- +- ++- +- +- +- +-+- +- +- - +- +- +- + +- +
|3d| | | |3e|##|##|3f| | |##|40|##|##|41| | | |##|##|
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| |##|##|##|42| |43| |##|44| | |45| | | |##|46|47|48|
+- +- - +- + +- +- +-+- +- +- + +- +- +-+- +- +- +-+- +
|49|4a| | | |##|4b| | | |##|4c| |##| |##|##|4d| | |
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|56| |##|##|##|57| | |##|##|##| |##|##| |##|##|##|58| |
+- +- +- - +- +- +- +-+- +- +- +- + +- +- +- +-+- +- +- +
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+- +- +- +- +- +-+- +- +- +- +-+- +- +- +- - +- +- +-+- +
| |##|##|5f| |60| |##| |##| |##|61| |##|62|63| | |##|
+- +- +- + +- +- +- +- +- - +- +- +- + +- +- +- +-+- +- +
|##|64| | |##| |##|65| | | |##|##| |##|66| | |##|##|
+- +-+- +- +- +- - +- +- +- +- +-+-+- +- +- +- + +- +- +
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|6c| | |##|##| |##|6d| | | |##|##|6e| | | | |##|6f|
+-+- +- +- +- +- +-+ +- +- +- +- +- +- +-+- +- +- +- +-+

THE CLUES:

Across
1. This band must've been desperate for publicity to give an interview to Slashdot!
5. Crapflooder impersonated well by Silicon Simian.
7. A special treat you earn for Bad Posting.
0A. Sean Kelly's ex-lover and former SlashNET IRCop.
0E. Ew! Between the eyes!
0F. This dog won't mess your carpet, shed fur all over the place, or do much else besides consume batteries.
11. Living proof that you get what you pay for.
12. The soundtrack for the World Wide Web.
14. Disney makes money to destroy free speech on the Internet every time you buy ____ on DVD.
15. Slashcode's overglorified killfile.
17. You were writing FOX about "The Tick" when you should've been writing your congressman about this bill.
18. A very Snotty troll.
1A. This young Afghan loves watching movies and JonKatz on his C64.
1D. The best text editor EVER!
1E. What you say!! If you say it one more time, I'll bludgeon you to death!
1F. These guys gave Linux mono.
25. These shiny discs feed money into a bloated media cartel and stifle fair use rights, but you buy them by the millions anyway.
28. Slashdot's top comment poster and story submitter.
2A. These networks "disrupt" artists' cash flows.
2B. Open Source codeword for amphetamines.
2D. RAM type optimized for Extended Data Output on old Pentiums.
2E. Hillary Rosen knows you're just itching to steal Charley Pride's __.
30. A hack to get a kernel designed only to boot off floppy disks to boot off a hard drive.
31. ___ BREAK HEAD WITH OPEN-SOURCE CD!!!
32. Marketers who resort to this tactic are worse than Hitler and should be tortured and killed.
33. This desktop environment kicks GNOME's ass!
35. Microsoft sold off this Unix, and it's gone downhill ever since.
38. An essential e-mail utility for child pornographers and terrorists.
3B. (0A Down)'s lucky number.
3C. It's not Unix, and it shows.
3D. Preface for 90% of Slashdot comments, and 100% of CmdrTaco's personal ads.
3F. Where non-free software goes on your file system.
41. You better mark all the comments as ____ in metamod unless you want to lose karma.
42. This international standards body, no matter what you may think, does NOT read Slashdot.
44. Head bitch of the RIAA.
46. A primitive chat program superseded by AOL Instant Messenger.
49. An online webzine which demonstrated that online subscriptions don't work to everybody except CmdrTaco.
4B. If you moderate in a way CmdrTaco doesn't like, you earn this special database flag.
4C. vi does a poor job of emulating this standard Unix text editor.
4D. To B or not __ _.
4E. You won't get much use out of this text-recognition technology if all you use your scanner for is scanning your ass.
50. The sound Michael's head makes when he's stuffing it up his rectum.
52. Unique index for a whole LIST of babble.
53. The world's best operating system!
54. Father of Methuselah, or old-school Slashdot troll.
55. You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict this operating system's future.
56. Most geeks sleep through this half of the day.
57. This open-source man was Natalie's first.
58. Carly's mission is to steer this company into the ground.
59. mimbleton's favorite subject prefix.
5A. Chewing this might help your babbling problem.
5C. Programming language named after Lord Byron's daughter.
5F. Dead drummer for CmdrTaco's favorite band, or ridiculous Liberal myth.
61. Every Slashdotter's dream is to get one of these.
62. The Firm that is spelling Armageddon for free speech on The Net.
64. These networks are the beginning of Disorganized Crime.
65. Shitty "bitch band" whose leader likes to bitch about the RIAA.
66. The only Adequacy [adequacy.org] [adequacy.org] [adequacy.org] editor with a real PhD.
67. I think 7 over 22 is both backwards AND wrong.
68. Mentioning this droid (and others) is what is keeping you from getting laid.
69. Two-letter country code for Oman.
6A. Giving a ____ Necklace involves "coming" on Heidi Wall's bosom.
6B. What people who can't afford Visual Studio use to search text files.
6C. This hacker tool is often used to replace "characters" in "strings".
6D. QueenTaco's maiden name.
6E. The best text editor EVER!
6F. The PDP-11 assembler that thinks it's a programming language.

Down
1. Taco thinks that a purchase of his publicly traded company's services is a ___.
2. The self-centered Windows 9x release after 98SE.
3. 3D Tamagotchi game designed by Peter Molyneux.
4. A crippled Photoshop wannabe.
5. Lock your penis bird in a cage to protect it from this text-outputting animal.
6. Russian Geeks in Space.
7. If your karma surpasses 25, you have this and a problem.
8. Luckily, michael was born too late to join THIS party.
9. If this Slashdot section's color scheme doesn't drive you away, Michael's snotty editorial remarks will.
0A. Suffering cerebral palsy didn't stop him from becoming Surprised by Wealth.
0B. The market leader in megahertz lies.
0C. Statement used to declare variables in Visual Basic.
0D. Media cartel dedicated to protecting Britney Spears from dirty hackers.
10. Once the greatest Karma Whore ever, now a suicidal loser seen only on (33 Down).
13. Game console that bankrupted its parent company because of hackers making free games for it.
16. The only Unix understandable by non-geeks.
18. (40 Down) likes his pages ____.
19. Do many eyes make all bugs shallow, or do too many cooks spoil the broth?
1C. Research? Linux? Software? Whatever!
20. The first step towards failure for Linux companies.
21. Every Slashdotter's duty (except those marked with (4B Across)).
22. Apple's stylish new IP theft device.
23. (43 Down)'s employer.
24. A flaky Open-Source knockoff of (38 Across).
26. ESR's birthday present to RMS.
27. This primitive operating system denies any service to its users.
29. Unique index for a particular piece of babble.
2C. A tasty breakfast treat -- down your pants!
2E. You hit this once you get 50 karma points.
2F. This marketing guy troll sure is dumb!
33. This site is decidedly not Slashdot.
34. An easy way to lose all your karma is to offer your account for sale on this popular auction site.
35. Unfortunately, this famous online Nazi's treatment of the Censorware Project [sethf.com] [sethf.com] [sethf.com] wasn't just a game.
36. Two-letter country code for the 51st state.
37. A geek's computer is always __.
39. ____, Lover, Aesthete, Programmer. There is no contradiction.
3A. The XP makes it go faster!
3E. The world's worst operating system!
40. The only troll with a freaks list longer than JonKatz'.
41. The OS all the cool people use now that Linux isn't trendy anymore.
43. A top-flight IT consultant who somehow manages to find time in his busy schedule to post to Slashdot.
45. What comes after as(1) and before strip(1) in the C build process.
47. VA Software has the world's worst ___.
48. This Senate bill comes closer to passing every time you go to see Lord of the Rings again.
4A. Legalized child pornography.
4F. What the Greeks went to Delphi for, Geeks go to this state for.
51. The Hellmouth should've eaten you here.
53. This rocker's battle against file-sharing networks won't end until he can Kill 'Em All.
5A. This desktop environment kicks KDE's ass!
5B. This modest and self-effacing troll was one of the first on Slashdot.
5C. You'd have to think different to justify spending money on this company's overpriced products.
5D. A game console which thought it was a full-featured computer system.
5E. Cofounder of Chips 'n' Dips.
5F. It may not have the best sound quality, but at least it's better than Ogg Vorbis.
60. Preface for the 10% of Slashdot comments not prefaced with (3D Across).
63. Apple stole all their ideas from this research group.
64. Bye bye, miss USian ___, drove the Cruiser like some loser who starts posts with a *sigh* ...
65. A dynamically updated list of the biggest losers on Slashdot.
67. Standard programming language implemented by most high-end printers.
6F. This language's lack of bounds checking is responsible for 90% of software security holes out there.

fin

more pure form of justice... (1, Funny)

Narcocide (102829) | about 12 years ago | (#3389696)

isn't it obvious to anyone else that he's simply too powerful? why can't we just burn him at the stake before it's too late?

Testimony? (3, Insightful)

dattaway (3088) | about 12 years ago | (#3389697)

It read more like he was going for a job interview, selling himself, or something. When are they going to learn to question this guy rather than letting him control everything?

At what point (5, Insightful)

Slash Veteran (561542) | about 12 years ago | (#3389699)

does the judge just say "enough is enough, stop lying."

We know you can separate IE from Windows.
We know you use your leverage to stifle competition.

You're a 900 lb gorilla, you've been acting like one, now we're going to treat you like one.

Re:At what point (4, Funny)

oingoboingo (179159) | about 12 years ago | (#3389709)

You're a 900 lb gorilla, you've been acting like one, now we're going to treat you like one.

Ummm....scream hopelessly at him and then proceed to be torn limb from limb? I thought that was already happening.

Do you know what day it is? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389712)

It's 22APR! Get the hell off of my /.!

Re:At what point (1)

cscx (541332) | about 12 years ago | (#3389725)

You're a 900 lb gorilla, you've been acting like one, now we're going to treat you like one.

I think he drew the line when Bill Gates said "you know, I could have you killed if I really wanted to."

Re:At what point (-1)

Deleted (301806) | about 12 years ago | (#3389845)

and where did he say this, and to whom did he say it? Or was that just in your imaginary windows hating linux driven world?

Re:At what point (1, Funny)

matth (22742) | about 12 years ago | (#3389746)

Hrm your adveritsing to join the blackout.. and yet you're posting LOL :)

Re:At what point (1)

Eccles (932) | about 12 years ago | (#3389849)

Hrm your adveritsing to join the blackout.. and yet you're posting LOL :)

Well of course. If everyone else joins, it's a lot easier to get first post...

Re:At what point (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389750)

when the mutant karma whores from the planet faggot VI attack.

In violation with your own blackout (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389783)

Sir, I believe you are in violation of the blackout your are advertising for in your sig. At what point will the Judge point out that you are a hipocrite for posting such childish nonsense during the great slashdot blackout?

WARNING! MODS ON CRACK NEARBY! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389794)

Not only does the judge not say that (the prosecution, OTOH...), but this weenie wants us to join "T(H)GSB", from 21April to 27April!
Whoops! What a nimrod!

More accurately... (2)

MadCow42 (243108) | about 12 years ago | (#3389827)

If your shit was architected properly in the first place, it would be trivial to separate the "toys" from the kernel.

Now, if by removing the extras like IE we're crippling your OS, that's YOUR problem.

Do it and shut up so we can all go home.

MadCow.

Re:At what point (0, Offtopic)

nege (263655) | about 12 years ago | (#3389832)

You advertise "The great slashdot blackout", but post on April 22. M'kay.

Seperating IE? (2)

NanoGator (522640) | about 12 years ago | (#3389843)

"We know you can separate IE from Windows"

Im sure it's POSSIBLE to remove IE from Windows, but man I sure don't trust MS to do it. In IE 6, they removed support for Netscape Style Plugins, yet when you have that type of plug-in in the plugins folder it still installs itself into the registry and tries to run as a mime type. In other words, they turned off one feature but not another.

If they won't take the time to implement a good solution for removing NS Style Plug-ins, I can only imagine the half assed job MS'd do of removing IE.

What's on your mind? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389888)

Wait, nevermind. I don't want to know what's on your mind.

damn you (-1)

neal n bob (531011) | about 12 years ago | (#3389701)

you filthy open sores hippies just love seeing a sucessful businessman destroyed, don't you? you probably dream about him going to jail where you could take him in the showers and open his source.

Who would have guessed...? (2, Insightful)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | about 12 years ago | (#3389702)


Who would have guessed that proprietary software would make itself undesirable because of the extreme aggressiveness of the companies that sell it?

Two days on the stand is a lot of $$ for Bill (5, Insightful)

Jon Howard (247978) | about 12 years ago | (#3389704)

Two days on the stand will cost Bill Gates more money than I will make in a decade if I continue with my current line of work.

Something about that disparity upsets me.

Re:Two days on the stand is a lot of $$ for Bill (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389781)

Because your a fucking communist. Go move to europe where all the other communists live. Your not man enough to be a capitalist

Re:Two days on the stand is a lot of $$ for Bill (4, Funny)

dgb2n (85206) | about 12 years ago | (#3389861)

Because your a fucking communist.
1. If you're going to flame, please use correct grammar. "You are" is turned into a contraction by spelling "you're" not "your"

Go move to europe where all the other communists live.

2. Please capitalize the word "Europe". Also there are very few communists in Europe at the present time. Perhaps you meant socialists. Most communists live in Asia (China and North Korea are full of them). Even Russia isn't technically communist.

Your not man enough to be a capitalist

3. See #1 above about "You're". There's plenty of female capitalists as well.

I'm beginning to think you're a confused, uneducated little flamer.

Re:Two days on the stand is a lot of $$ for Bill (1)

SurfTheWorld (162247) | about 12 years ago | (#3389791)

That's not necessarily true. I think that "good 'ole Bill" has several pop-shots through the year and the rest of the time he can coast. For example, say I hit the lottery and win $300 million as an up-front payment. If you look at my earnings per hour on the year, I earned about $163,043 per hour (1480 hours in a work year).

But really I only spent 25 minutes buying the lotto ticket and depositing my winnings. I could do whatever I wanted to the rest of the year and it doesn't effect my net earnings at the end of the year.

Likewise, Bill clinches a deal here, stifles some competition there, strongarms Dell into not selling Linux boxen anymore, and he pockets a boatload of cash on one day. Tomorrow he could sit in the crapper all day, and by the end of the week he's still fallen ass-backwards into money.

Ironically, yes (5, Insightful)

dant (25668) | about 12 years ago | (#3389707)

"By reducing Windows to some undefined 'core operating system' the (states) would turn back the clock on Windows development by about ten years and effectively freeze it there," [Gates] said.

Well, in some sense, yeah. That's about the last time Windows was an operating system and just an operating system, as opposed to a forcibly-bundled OS, browser, media player, photo editor, etc., etc., isn't it?

Re:Ironically, yes (3, Interesting)

czardonic (526710) | about 12 years ago | (#3389800)

Well, in some sense, yeah. That's about the last time Windows was an operating system and just an operating system, as opposed to a forcibly-bundled OS, browser, media player, photo editor, etc., etc., isn't it?

Yeah. Everyone knows that the average computer buyer just wants a bare-bones platform on which they can roll their own browser, media player, photo editor, etc.

Based on the wild-fire spread of alternative OSs that trade in this needless bloat in favor of lower costs, we can safely assume that the "Just the basics, thanks" movement will only continue to build steam.

The continued decline in popularity of full service ISPs such as AOL and MSN, which force features on to users that they would prefer to track down, download, compile, test and de-bug themselves is further evidence that Joe and Jane Average User are saying "Enough is enough!"

Only time will tell whether these withering corporate giants will heed this cry soon enough to save their businesses.

Re:Ironically, yes (2, Insightful)

Steveftoth (78419) | about 12 years ago | (#3389907)

At the same time, computer manufactures should be allowed to install whatever software they want on top of windows 'base' install (whatever that may be). Right now they can't. They can't change things as they see fit. There are very strict limitations to what Gateway, Dell, Sony, your local computer OEM can do without violating the MS agreement. This should be changed.

Re:Ironically, yes (2)

SirSlud (67381) | about 12 years ago | (#3389908)

If asked, most people would love getting their paper news, tv news, etc .. all from one convinient, cheaper source. The problem? IT'S NOT HEALTHY.

Just because people act one way does not mean they wouldnt not prefer the other way if they were given the chance (and even potentially 'forced') to do it the other way.

Re:Ironically, yes (1)

Maudib (223520) | about 12 years ago | (#3389855)

`They're [Gateway] one of the people who would change Windows ... if they had the ability to do so,'' Gates said.

he makes it sound like there are four of us out there.....

PDF (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389708)

Will you children quit posting PDF links and post links to files in an open format, like HTML? I use a GNU/Linux system, therefore I refuse to use any not-free-as-in-speech software and file formats. I know Adobe has a reader but it's closed source and I refuse to use it. Geez, get with the program people.

Re:PDF (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389718)

Oh my dear god. Why don't you just go back to trying to suck your own dick? Quit bugging us.

Re:PDF (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389873)

xpdf is a GPL'ed PDF viewer.

http://freshmeat.net/projects/xpdf/?topic_id=112 %2 C105%2C154

Brian

LOL (1)

Brackney (257949) | about 12 years ago | (#3389710)

"...stability, consistency and quality of Windows..." Well one out of three ain't bad - it IS consistent!

Re:LOL (1)

SurfTheWorld (162247) | about 12 years ago | (#3389812)

I really don't understand how they can peddle that piece of crap onto a consumer and make profit...

I get it to break if I click pages too quickly in IE.

zug-zug

There are hundreds of thousands of developers out (2)

blair1q (305137) | about 12 years ago | (#3389711)

of work.

If Bill isn't going to employ them, when he's the one who put on the street, then what is he talking about?

--Blair

BBC says it all ..... (5, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about 12 years ago | (#3389714)

GATES: Microsoft would be crippled

Isn't that sort of the point? A crippled Microsoft is EXACTLY what the US states want, so giving other companies a chance to fix the mess they've made of the computing industry.

Re:BBC says it all ..... (2)

karmawarrior (311177) | about 12 years ago | (#3389789)

Quite. The quote that always gets me is "But the remedy the States want will just help Microsoft's competition".

Isn't that the entire point?

software architect? (5, Funny)

primus_sucks (565583) | about 12 years ago | (#3389722)

"There is no clear dividing line between where a particular block of "middleware" ends and the rest of the operating system begins," Gates said.

Maybe Gates should go back to being CEO instead of Chief Software Architect!

What Microsoft Needs To Do..... (1, Flamebait)

matth (22742) | about 12 years ago | (#3389723)

Greee.. I typed this all in and Slashdot died and Ie wouldn't go back and kept displaying a "Friendly Error" insteady of just a dialog box! AHHHHHHHHHH! *stifle the anger*

Anway.. Microsoft needs to do what Linux has been doing for ages and what Macintosh is currentyl doing. Forget about upgrading like they are currently doing and do a re-write.. making sure everything is secure and works right!

Sure they say windows 2000 isn't on MS-DOS but really?
So we see:
Starting Windows |||||||||||||
Instead of:
Staring MS-DOS......

There's no difference.. and while the stabilility has gotten better... it's not good or near linux.

Active Directories.. don't even talk to me about that! They are confusing and complex! Novell is so much easier to use. Goodness Bill! Just startover.. don't try to release a new O/S every year! Take 2 or 3 and let's make this thing good. We don't need to upgrade and for goodnessgracious Bill, dump the XP "simplification"

Re:What Microsoft Needs To Do..... (1)

ProfMoriarty (518631) | about 12 years ago | (#3389778)

don't try to release a new O/S every year

HEHEHE ... the OS is the same thing every few years with "enhancements" that make it crash easier.

Hell .. Windows 2000 = Windows NT 5.0 ...
Windows XP = Windows NT 5.1

Re:What Microsoft Needs To Do..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389825)

Doesn't it hurt being this stupid. Novell is utter crap and there is a huge difference between Win2k and Dos (oh and with regards to linux, as a desktop Win2k is about a 100 times more stable. Its true even if you don't want to admit it).

Go back to your cave troll.

Re:What Microsoft Needs To Do..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389911)

So why are you posting anonymously if this is true and you don't mind karma?

Re:What Microsoft Needs To Do..... (1)

talonyx (125221) | about 12 years ago | (#3389906)

Um, sorry. NT is a completely new kernel. Hell, I see "Loading Linux..." and lots of text, hey, it's fucking text, that means it's MS-DOS now?

Everything needs a startup screen, man...

Re:What Microsoft Needs To Do..... (2)

Loki_1929 (550940) | about 12 years ago | (#3389909)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Windows NT4/5/5.1 all based (if not somewhat loosely) on the VMS kernel?

Not to defend M$, but let's call a spade a spade; Windows 2000 is reasonably stable so long as you don't (through ignorance or purpose) destroy the internals. My home machine runs Windows 2000 24/7 and reboots (90% of the time scheduled) maybe once a month. While this is nothing compared to your average FreeBSD machine, it's very impressive in the world of Windows.

In any event, NT != Win9x, but Win9x == DOS to my knowledge.

So we see:
Starting Windows |||||||||||||
Instead of:
Staring MS-DOS......

Or perhaps instead of Starting FreeBSD / - \ | / - .....

It's like Darth Vader all over again (5, Interesting)

stagmeister (575321) | about 12 years ago | (#3389729)

It seems to me that Gates is like the big DV in many ways -- not only does he preach the dark side, but he strives to build an Empire. As Vader says in The Empire Strikes Back, "Join me, and together we can end this distructive conflict." Basically, what I'm saying is that it's pretty obvious what Microsoft's goal is -- not necessarily to make tons of money, but to make a whole computing system under which it is very easy for developers and users a like to work and play. Now, making lots of $$ is a side-issue, but Gates also seems to think that the only way to get people to work together and come up with something that is good is to take them all over, business-wise, so that they have to use MS technologies. I've developed some stuff with a couple of people who used to work for MS (as developers, not corporate paper-pushers), and what they all tell me is that MS has high lofty goals, and that actually most of the bugs in software don't come out of bad coding, but bad communication between the coders, as some people may create a class to do X and the creators of software Y use it, but then the API of X is changed and then Y is screwed up. Either way, I think that Gates' view, like Vader's, that you need to create an empire and then order will come, is wrong. I think that OSS is the way to go and that that's the best way to get people to work together -- to share. Gates'll probably shoot himself in the foot through cross-examination anyway.

quit insulting Darth (0)

gluteus (307087) | about 12 years ago | (#3389891)

Gotta remember, young Vader was one of the good guys. Can you say the same about Billy Boy?

What? (1)

eet23 (563082) | about 12 years ago | (#3389730)

Why Microsoft should keep diong what they want, from the summary: "The stability, consistency and quality of Windows" I'm sure there's a law against saying things like that under oath.

Gates Testifies in Antitrust Suit... (4, Funny)

Apostata (390629) | about 12 years ago | (#3389738)

...yes, but what colour was it?

Re:Gates Testifies in Antitrust Suit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389877)

Dark blue, I think it was.

Here's the Short Version (5, Funny)

BurritoWarrior (90481) | about 12 years ago | (#3389747)

I'm a delusional billionaire who thinks that even though my company has been convicted, it should be allowed to continue doing what it has always done.

Cripes. The remedy will set computing back? *Hits Gates with the clue stick*. It's your fucking company's predatory bullshit that has driven out competitors and stifled innovation that has set the industry back.

Brief Summary (1, Funny)

Junky191 (549088) | about 12 years ago | (#3389749)

Gates: Why you hoes be frontin? I just want da mad benjaminz for mah caddy? Why don't a computer hoodrat get no respect from da man? Congressman X: Your company is guilty of abusive monopolistic practices and use of unethical means to enforce your control over an entire industry.
Gates: Step off bich! I'm gonna cut you fool!

"plan could force Microsoft to ditch Windows" (1)

sjonke (457707) | about 12 years ago | (#3389755)

Myself, I chose to ditch windows because it sucked royally.

The Three Elements of Microsoft's Success (5, Funny)

MAXOMENOS (9802) | about 12 years ago | (#3389759)

From this article: [reuters.com]

"The (states' ideas) would undermine all three elements of Microsoft's success, causing great damage to Microsoft, other companies that build upon Microsoft's products, and the businesses and consumers that use PC software," the world's richest man said in his 155-page written submission.

Hey, wait a second...

"The (states' ideas) would undermine all three elements of Microsoft's success ..."

... fear, uncertainty, and doubt?

"... causing great damage to Microsoft ...."

Bill Gates (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389767)

Bill Gates is a morbid creature who
has fallen to the depths of depravity
and is trying to entice the world
into a vortex of sin, evil and degradation.

I am amused (5, Insightful)

subgeek (263292) | about 12 years ago | (#3389793)

that MS keeps talking about the damage to MS and the PC ecosystem.

MS was found to be a monopoly that abused its monopoly status to further its business. why should business that was illegally obtained be protected. it's as though they should be let off of the hook since they got away with it for so long. this is similar to a person stealing a car, getting caught after a year, and then being allowed to keep the stolen car because he'd already had it for a year.

as far as the PC ecosystem is concerned, it is just as ridiculous. MS probably did have a lot to do with standardizing a PC platform way back in the infancy of desktop PC use. but now they are saying innovation will stop and things will be set back if people are allowed to use things other than Windows to do Windows tasks. this is not necessarily the case. if companies are allowed to make emulators/interpreters/compatibilty programs, all of the existing software out there would still work. people would have the choice of using native software or the generic Windows software on their systems. the only ones hurt in this scenario is Microsoft. letting more (non-MS) software interact with Windows would make things even more compatible than they are now. People just wouldn't have to depend on a single OS / Office vendor to provide compatibility.

other companies should not have to help cover MS's r&d expense for MS Office. MS talks about this like they are the only ones who ever thought of making word processor and spreadsheet programs. the only secrets that would be unveiled would be the wacky MS file formats.

in spite of all of this, i think MS will come out of this trial with a slap on the wrist and monopolistic business practices will continue

Modularity (2)

pyrrho (167252) | about 12 years ago | (#3389805)

I think the astounding part of this is that Gates has come to the point of arguing that modular software is bad, and not only that, impossible. When in fact Microsoft fully understands the value of modularity and is really in the mainstream of software engineering on the issue of modular == good.

What they really think is that exposing modularity in a fair way will hurt MS, but what they are arguing goes so much further... it's a little worrisome if I thought anyone would believe him at his word.

Odd Thought: I wonder if they really want to stop shipping windows but can only do this if they blame the Government. MSUnix without losing face ("they made us"). (Note: I didn't say MSLinux)

End of the blackout (1)

ryants (310088) | about 12 years ago | (#3389806)

Why do I get the feeling that this story will spell the end of the Great Blackout?

lock bill up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389818)

Gates said the nine states threaten Windows' existence as a stable platform...

Sorry bill, but it's not the states threatening this, it's your own ...cough... code monkeys!

really tho, it seems like MS is using blatant lies in their testimony, can we say perjury? wouldn't it be nice to smack 'em all in the face with that? :)

Umh... (5, Interesting)

OneFix (18661) | about 12 years ago | (#3389822)

In written testimony submitted after he was sworn in, Gates argued that penalties the states have proposed would give Microsoft's competitors an unfair advantage.

Good...it's doing its job. That's exactly what this is meant to do. M$ has held an unfair monopoly over the industry for years, and this is meant to give other companies the chance to strip some of their power away.

As a monopoly, everything that comprises Windoze and Office are the result of ill-gotten gains and should be plundered like M$ has done to others in the past.

If it is sucessful, this could be what brings the tech industry out of its current slump...

The remedies suck (3, Flamebait)

cygnusx (193092) | about 12 years ago | (#3389833)

There was this good Register story [blogspot.com] a while ago where a Sun director talked about customers' expectations from a *software* vendor. The word `sedimentation' was mentioned. And that's precisely the problem: from MS to Redhat to Sun, everyone bundles, is forced to, or goes out of business because that's what the customer wants.

But the people (or their backstage paymasters) focus on buzzwords like `bundling' and push for stupid remedies like ``releasing windows' source'' and all. Yeah right. Like that's gonna happen. The thing to do would have been fine MS (heavily -- they sure can afford it, with 36bn(!) in cash -- for restrictive OEM licenses, cause a world of hurt to their bottom line, and move on.

But for MS' many (whiny [sun.com]) competitors, legal eagles are now substituting for credible tech competition and decent business plans. And so the lawsuit has become a hem-the-giant-in game, even as these very same whiners [aol.com] continue [google.com] haemorrhaging [google.com] money. These losers don't deserve any sympathy at all.

The Real Story... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389852)


I just read an article about how the government is deciding which vendor / vendors to go with concerning the mandated use of some type of "passport" system for all users of the internet in the US.

heres on story on it:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/busines stech nology/134438173_passport18.html

After reading it I realized why Microsoft created .NET, passport, and the whole hailstorm philosophy. It not a natural shift in the sense of technology. It's not and was never intended for the corporate world. Knowing how long the government takes to decide on something, we can be assured that the governments plan has been in the works for some time more than likely years. Naturally any company including Microsoft has been keeping tabs on the government's plan from the beginning.

Microsoft's entire new technology shift to XP, .Net, and passport was intended to get this contract from the government. Once you realize the magnitude of the this contract it becomes clear that the money Microsoft makes in a year will be a drop in the bucket compared to this contract. Think how much money they will make once ALL internet users in the US and all those accessing US sites will be required to use some sort of "passport" service.

Getting corporate america to sign on to any of Microsoft's new technologies is just a bonus.

The interview I want to see (1)

Thakandar2 (260848) | about 12 years ago | (#3389853)

... is like the one from South Park...

General: "Bill Gates, I thought you said Windows 98 was going to be faster and more stable!"

Bill: It is, it's over a 100..."

BLAM! The general shoots him in the head.

General: "Get him out of here..."

Why doesn't anyone care... (1)

gleffler (540281) | about 12 years ago | (#3389863)

...about the Mac bundling iMovie, iTunes, iThis, iThat; or Linux bundling every media tool in existence as part of their respective operating systems? It's a 'forcibly bundled browser, media player, etc.' Oh, I forgot, it's because MS sux0rs and anything else r0x0rs. 'Scuze me, I think I stepped into the wrong thread. /gleffler

You too can waive productivity gains w/ Microsoft (2, Interesting)

jrshaw (61468) | about 12 years ago | (#3389867)

"Microsoft today is investing heavily in XML Web Services, a next-generation computing platform that holds the potential to unleash new waives of productivity gains in the economy."

Amazingly truthful for a Microsoft statement, but I think it would have been clearer to say "throw away", or "forsake" instead of "waives" productivity gains.

CE and XBOX (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389868)

Aren't CE and the OS on XBOX versions of Windows? If they can alter Windows for those platforms they can adhere to the state court order. any excuse is bull.

Gates emphasizes the "protection" of MS's IP (2)

Andy Tai (1884) | about 12 years ago | (#3389870)

Bill Gates puts a lot of emphasis on the protection of Microsoft's intellectual property and how the nine states' rememdies will "force" Microsoft to give its IP to competitors. Gates is using essentially the same arguments to defend itself in the trial and attacks on the GPL--the need to protect Microsoft's "innovation." Gates is projecting his own interests to be the interests of the world.

The new judge should see Bill Gates' self-centered ego, like Judge Jackson who thought Gates has a Napoleon-like mentality [bbc.co.uk].

Wonder when will Microsoft begin to claim the nine states are "intellectual property destroyers" or are conspiring with Richard Stallman against Microsoft...

theres a good explanation for this 163 page crap (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3389879)

there is a great explanation for this 163 nightmare

proprietary software is not customizeable. all of the rememedies could be made if the software was open source, as vendors could rewrite parts of it, and then submit them. they would get accepted if they were truly better.

i think a judge should look at this, and say 'you produced 163 pages of absolute bullshit why your company cannot exist if we implement these fair remedies. instead of implementing your remedies, we have decided to close your company, you do not serve the public interest, you have lost rights to exist as you know it'

does somebody have to read the whole document? is microsoft counting on them getting tired and giving up?

We already know what he'll say (1)

release7 (545012) | about 12 years ago | (#3389894)

"It's best for the consumer. We are looking out for their interests."

What's really sad is that this thinly veiled PR mantra still has not lost it's effect. That's because it's more convenient in the current "free" market zeitgeist to buy into it. "We don't need the government designing software, it would hurt the consumer," goes this shallow line of reasoning. As a result, judges can't base their decisions based on what's fair or just but on what's "good" for the consumer, no matter how full of shit the argument is.

Microsoft has been able to spin their whole defense around this simple-minded argument. They claim that software is somehow special and different and should be left in the hands of the technology Gods on Mt. Microsoft.

I say bullshit. The world should not have to bend over backwards to meet the vision of some narrow-minded, profit-driven software engineers. The world existed before Windows or any software "standards" forced on the market by Microsoft. It's a pretty safe assumption the world will keep churning right along without them.

A Burr up the collective asses of the states. (1, Troll)

Sabalon (1684) | about 12 years ago | (#3389895)

So today Bill Gates testified...I may actually read all 163 pages of his testimony.

I just don't get what they expect to get out of this. All the states in it are so damned concerned about MS releasing a version of Windows without IE.

SO FUCKING WHAT?

First off - does anyone really think that a vendor is gonna replace IE or the MS-HTML rendering engine with a piece-of-has-been like Netscape?

Second, why don't the vendors just do it already? Remove the IE icon from the desktop, start bar, etc... and put Netscape or something else on there?

Why - it's not because Windows isn't modular - anyone can do the above. It's because the vendors have signed contracts with MS saying for the deep discounts they are not allowed to remove IE or put NS on, or any of that.

So instead of going after MS and their contracts, the states are gonna force MS to produce a version of windows without IE, so the vendors can license it instead of Windows with IE just so they can put something other than IE on there.

And ya know what - I bet that the price point will be so wrong that the vendors will instead still license the regular version of Windows with IE because MS won't offer a contract for the other version that is cost-efficiant for the vendors.

Does anyone here remember what Windows was like 8-10 years ago? It was a fuckin mess.

While I fully agree that MS has the ability to add things to the OS to squish competition:
- the MS stuff is usually better than the competition - sad but true
- what's next? Now it's HTML. What if some company comes along and claims that MS is killing their market for lightweight text editors (Wordpad/Notepad) or add-on file systems, or memory management. Where does it stop?

And who filed this suit? It started out as a US antitrust suit, and the US backed off. Now the states are going at it - thirsty for blood I guess. I could see if Netscape filed a suit, but I don't buy the state's argument of the consumer being hurt. The consumer gets a stable suite (well...stable compared to a patchwork of OS, applications from different vendors, etc...) that is very intergrated.

Yes - Microsoft have a monopoly, but only because all these vendors signed into these contracts with them that further promoted MS products. Adding a browser to the OS did not use their monopoly status to force others out of the market.
Adding a few lines to a contract did.

Point 414 (1)

mlati (462475) | about 12 years ago | (#3389903)

Point 414 in his testimony seems aimed at the .NET and its cloning by mono.
If Bill Gates does not want this to happen, is he going to allow mono to go ahead?, I sincerely think not.

middleware is a requirement? (1)

tornater (574689) | about 12 years ago | (#3389914)

What are all these commercial products Bill is talking about that require MS middleware to run? If IE or Mediaplayer were gone, what other programs would crash? Is this more FUD? The only thing I can think of is DirectX, and I'm not sure that qualifies as middleware. It's updated so often anyway that the games that use it usually have a version on their CD that can be installed. And another thing...why aren't the States' lawyers asking these questions?
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