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The Culture of CD Burning

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the yeast-yogurt-and-mp3s dept.

Music 820

An anonymous reader points to this "good article from the Boston Globe about the culture of CD burning, and how hard it will be for the RIAA to stop it. Some interesting quotes: 'There's a "sex appeal" to burning CDs, says [Sheryl] Crow, adding that it is a social event for young people, just as listening to 45s was once a social event for their parents.' An interesting one from Hilary Rosen: "I ask them, 'What have you done last week?' They may say they wrote a paper on this or that. So I tell them, 'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too? Would that bug you?' So this sense of personal investment does ring true with people." Seems like at least one musician thinks his A paper is being peddled all over town.

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820 comments

Feline Poop (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396046)

Fuck all of you motherfucking LambdaMOOers. I know this breaks the /. blackout, but deal, bitches.

Re:Feline Poop (-1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396086)

A wasted FP by a filthy AC. You fuckers will be first against the wall when the Crapflooder Revolution comes. This FP is hereby claimed in the name of Walmart Security!

hi there (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396048)

i like you.

but your mom is a slut.

Re:hi there (-1)

Cryptopotamus (460702) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396191)

The head of the Galactic
Confederation (76 planets around
larger stars visible from here)
(founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)
solved overpopulation (250 billion
or so per planet -- 178 billion on
average) by mass implanting.
He caused people to be brought to
Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H Bomb
on the principal volcanoes (Incident 2)
and then the Pacific area ones
were taken in boxes to Hawaii
and the Atlantic Area ones to
Las Palmas and there "packaged."
His name was Xenu. He used
renegades. Various misleading
data by means of circuits etc.
was placed in the implants.
When through with his crime Loyal Officers
(to the people) captured him
after 6 years of battle
and put him in an electronic
mountain trap where he still
is. "They" are gone. The place (Confed.)
has since been a desert.

My liver FUCKING HURTS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396195)

I drink too much and my liver FUCKING HURTS!

CRAZY PEEPULS ARE USING THE INTRNET! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396208)

Fp!!! (-1, Offtopic)

nite_warrior (151737) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396053)

At last!!

TROLLING AND CRAPFLOODING FAQ VERSION 2.1 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396073)

Follow Jon Katz' Example! Promote your cause on Slashdot now! And mod up this comment -- if Katz deserves free advertising, so does this comment!

This FAQ is designed to give tips on trolling on Slashdot, created in celebration of Blackout Week. It is dedicated to all hard-working trolls and crapflooders.

What are some good trolling tips?
Trolling is all about making people think you care, and so winding up those who care for real. Think of it like shooting a deer in front of an anti-hunt protester, or eating a Big Mac in front of a vegan. Here are some ideas for making your troll work:

  1. To start off, make sure your post gets noticed -- log in, post early (after 50 +1 comments have been posted to an article, forget it), and make sure to use your +1 bonus.
  2. Ensure your posting history doesn't show a history of dubious posts. Some advise (incorrectly) to stagger your trolls, but this is in fact time wasting and only helps Slashdot in the long run. If you have a doubt, just create a new account, or even post anonymous -- an effective troll, posted early enough, will gain a +1 quickly.
  3. Learn from the marketing droids -- a mixture of truth and lies leaves the potential client without a clue as to which is which. Geeks smell pure bullshit, because it reminds them of their bedroom smell (see also "karma whoring" below).
  4. Follow up. Keep a window open on your troll, and reload to see if people bite. Perhaps post an AC reply agreeing or disagreeing with your own post. Reply to later posts referring to your earlier post to back up your point.
  5. If you get a dreaded (-1, Troll), don't be ashamed to post the well-known, "Mods on Crack!" rant. Explain, rationally, and not as yourself why you agree with the original post, and why it's a fair point.

How do I crapflood?
A crapflood is an (intentionally) content-free post. Here are some suggestions for the source of your crapflood -- remember to take care with repetition, odd characters, or repetition, to get past the lameness filter:

  1. your local dictionary file, e.g. /usr/share/dict/words on BSDs
  2. your local real names file, e.g. /usr/share/dict/propernames on BSDs
  3. a copy-paste part of a web page (for extra amusement, copy-paste from Slashdot itself)
  4. a UU-encoded newsgroup file
  5. some output from a lorem ipsum generator
  6. examples of your latest spams, particularly those in Korean
  7. allowing your cat to walk across the keyboard for a few minutes.

How do I widen pages?
A method is known and delivered to us by the beautiful Klerck which currently works in Internet Explorer alone. This will therefore ruin the browsing experience of by far the majority of Slashdot readers. Start with the text:

http://www.eveeieyhfgfcdoosammgwsnboivvbsczxlzgabc /

then repeat /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk /

several times, remembering to avoid the compression filter trap by using different random characters.

How do I karma whore?
"Karma whoring" is the practice of gaining moderation points for their own sake. It is particularly useful in techniques for defeating the moderation system. Some tips for karma whoring are:

  1. If the site containing the actual article is not on a fast server (i.e. is not a "big site"), re-post the article with subject, "the article -- in case the site gets slashdotted". Make sure this comes as early as possible in the list of comments, to avoid the dreaded (-1, Redundant).
  2. If any article pops up on Microsoft, write a stock two paragraphs explaining why Microsoft is immoral, and why the event described cannot happen with Free Software. I shall not supply text, because tests have shown that moderators are not completely stupid, and can identify duplicate posts (this is actually helpful in defeating the moderation system, see below).
  3. For any article discussing a particular company, state that you worked there, and offer your "inside knowledge". Note that geeks do visit Slashdot, so do not fall into the trap of being too obvious a fraud -- a mistake made by such amateur trolls as PhysicsGenius, who must now suffer a life of instant down-modding.

How do I defeat the moderation system?
The moderation system is far from flawless. Here are some ways to devalue it:

  1. If you have moderator points, for goodness sake abuse them! How about moderating up a First Post, a crapflood, or best of all, this very FAQ? It would be a crime to allow such an easily abused system to work.
  2. Copy the text of another person's post, and paste it as a reply to an earlier post. Most people read oldest messages first, so they will consider yours to be the first message, and the later message to be "redundant". This is great for annoying karma whores.
  3. Vote Troll posts as "underrated", thus increasing their exposure without running the risk of having your moderation rights revoked.

How do I defeat authentication?
Don't. The FBI will arrest you for being a terrorist. Instead, make an authoritative nick like CmdrTaco (editor). The majority of people are easily fooled, and will be likely to take notice of and respond to your post, and even moderate it up. Think of it like Lunix Turvalds walking into the room -- people listen to what he has to say, and don't dare disagree.

How do I defeat the goatse link early warning system?
Simple -- use one of the many foolishly implemented redirector URLs hosted on well-known sites. Here's an innocuous recent example which pretends to link to the highly informative about.com, but in fact links to a site of the popular 90's lesbian band The Spice Girls: Informative link which will get me karma [about.com]

What are some excellent sites to sneakily link to?
Mostly, you should link to gay porn. If you are reading this FAQ, you already know the URLs, so I don't need to supply them, except to say that it's almost an initiation ceremony in Slashdot trolling to link to goatse [goatse.cx].

Administrativa

How do I justify the existence of this FAQ?
Slashdot is full of people who support unlicensed weapons ownership and dissemination of bomb creation documents -- in short, they support freedom, even when that freedom could cause harm. This document should be considered as that very freedom in action. Indeed, to disparage or moderate down this document would be un-American, and the FBI are likely to arrest you for being a terrorist.

How do I add to or change this FAQ?
Simply re-post the FAQ on Slashdot, adding an appropriate question, and incrementing the version number by 1. Before doing so, please try to ensure you have the latest version, and remember to keep this post W3C compliant!

How else can I help with the Troll and Crapflooding Cause?
Moderate this post up, re-post it, put it in your journal, and upload it on your website. Thanks!

WTF ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396057)

What the hell was this article about ?

Anyway, anyone knows where can I get the AOTC vcd-s ?
thx

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396058)

nah :(

1.1 billion CD's doesn't mean 1.1 billion copies (4, Insightful)

qurob (543434) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396063)


Lets say you buy a 50 pack of CD's....

I might burn 5 music CD's from that.

Re:1.1 billion CD's doesn't mean 1.1 billion copie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396101)

It's like geeks and sex . . .

They might buy a pack of 12 condoms, but they might only get the chance to use 1!

Re:1.1 billion CD's doesn't mean 1.1 billion copie (2, Funny)

Kenja (541830) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396157)

You get that many bad burns? Ye-Gods, if I only got one good burn out of every ten CDs I'd return my drive.

Re:1.1 billion CD's doesn't mean 1.1 billion copie (2)

jordan_a (139457) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396178)

Ummm, I think he meant he'd only use 5 of them for music.

Re:1.1 billion CD's doesn't mean 1.1 billion copie (2, Funny)

Kenja (541830) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396216)

What? No one ever uses CDs for anything other then stealing music.
You people are Killing Kid Rock [216.239.33.100]!

Re:1.1 billion CD's doesn't mean 1.1 billion copie (2)

TedCheshireAcad (311748) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396194)

I think the poster was implying that only five CDs would be burned as music, the others would go to other data.

Re:1.1 billion CD's doesn't mean 1.1 billion copie (4, Interesting)

TedCheshireAcad (311748) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396171)

Yeah, a good 60% of a spindle of CD-R's goes to Linux ISOs, 20% to linux kernel updates and other large software, 10% to mp3 CDs, 5% to actual audio CDs, and 5% to buffer underruns.

Deep Throat Dead At 53 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396066)

DENVER (AP) -- Linda Boreman, who starred as Linda Lovelace in the 1972 pornographic film Deep Throat" and later became an anti-porn advocate, died Monday from injuries she suffered in a car crash. She was 53.

Boreman was taken to Denver Health Medical Center with massive trauma and internal injuries after the April 3 accident, hospital spokeswoman Sara Spaulding said. She was taken off life support Monday, Spaulding said.

Boreman's ex-husband, Larry Marchiano, said he and their two adult children were at the hospital when she died.

"Everyone might know her as something else, but we knew her as mom and as Linda," Marchiano said. "We divorced five years ago, but she was still my best friend."

The family moved to Colorado in 1990 and the two divorced in 1996 after 22 years of marriage.

Boreman claimed her first husband forced her into pornography at gunpoint. They divorced in 1973.

Their relationship disintegrated into a life of violence, rape, prostitution and pornography, according to her 1980 autobiography, Ordeal and her testimony before congressional committees investigating pornography.

Boreman said she was never paid a penny for Deep Throat and her husband was only paid $1,250 (U.S.), though the film grossed a reported $600 million.

After leaving the industry, she traveled the lecture circuit on a crusade against pornography, speaking at colleges and with prominent feminists.

"I look in the mirror and I look the happiest I've ever looked in my entire life," she said in a 1997 interview. "I'm not ashamed of my past or sad about it. And what people might think of me, well, that's not real. I look in the mirror and I know that I've survived."

Boreman was born Jan. 10, 1949, n the Bronx borough of New York.

Linda Boreman, deep throat, dead at 53 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396136)

I just heard the sad news on talk radio. Pornographic star Linda Boreman was found dead in her Denver home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss her, even if you didn't a
see her pornographic films, there's no denying her contributions to popular culture. Truly an American Icon.

Bite me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396069)

First posts and AC's can go to hell! And so can you!

Hmmm.... (3, Funny)

L-Wave (515413) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396071)

'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too? Would that bug you?'

So is hilary saying that we are allowed to burn CD's of crappy artists?

Re:Hmmm.... (2, Funny)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396140)

No, no, only artists that don't get A's. Oh wait, that's like 90% of music out there now.

Can we copy artist's term papers? What if it's just photocopies, not burning the file to a CD?

Kierthos

Re:Hmmm.... (5, Insightful)

quantaman (517394) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396173)

I have to say that's a horrible analogy on her part. If you copy music you are not passing off the music as your own and I sure hope yuo aren't reselling it. A more accurate question would be

'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and read it without paying you? Would that bug you?'

Re:Hmmm.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396183)

This is akin to them handing in the paper as thiers with their name on it.

When I burn a CD I make no pretense that the music on that CD was created by me.

In fact if I wrote a paper and people wanted to freely distribute it giving full credit to me, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Re:Hmmm.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396228)

And that compared to burning CD's is Apples or Bananas. Or is that mangos, or pears? Darned it - someone taking my A paper and using it for his/hers own profit and advancement is one thing. Someone taking a burned CD and listening to it is another - only when the burned CD becomes an item for sale can it be comparable. Sheesh, these guys really don't have brains, do they? If I burn a friends CD for my enjoyment, I may discover a group I happen to like and go out and buy their albums. Free advertising - I pay for the blank. If I'm a "report copier" I'd burn a bunch of CD's and sell them. That they make no distinction is disturbing, and very shortsighted. The entertainment industry has never been known for being a smart industry though, so what do you expect...

Maximum comments exceeded! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396074)

You've reached your maximum number of comments you can post: 30 comments over 4 hours. If this error seems to be incorrect, please provide the following in your report to SourceForge.net: Browser type User ID/Nickname or AC What steps caused this error Whether you used the Back button on your browser Whether or not you know your ISP to be using a proxy, or any sort of service that gives you an IP that others are using simultaneously How many posts to this form you successfully submitted during the day * Please choose 'formkeys' for the category! Thank you.

Sheryl Crow (2)

swagr (244747) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396077)

Meanwhile, artists of all stripes, from Byrd to Sheryl Crow, are challenging the status quo.

Sexy and a rebel.
Nice.

Re:Sheryl Crow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396167)

I saw Sheryl Crow on TV. I bet she has a very Deep Throat.

recordable discs outsold CDs for the first time (4, Insightful)

kneeo (10487) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396079)

this is a lame statment.

I can buy 50 recordable cds for $19.99(b4 a 10 rebate ;) 1 music cd costs from $9.99 to $20. So of course recordable cds will out sell music cds, even if people were not using them to "pirate" music.
Recordable cds dont even come in 1 packs do they?

Re:recordable discs outsold CDs for the first time (3, Insightful)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396159)

Yeah, I know all the recordable CDs we use at work are obviously used to pirate music. Except for those that we burn clients' files on. Which is 99.9%. (Come and get me Ms. Rosen. I burned a CD of music from artists who can't seem to get a record deal.)

Kierthos

For the last time..... (2, Insightful)

qurob (543434) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396080)


It's not the pirating...it's the music!

We don't have the bands of the 90's anymore....

We've got a couple big sellers, one hit wonders, trendy bands....nothing 'classic' lately

Go ahead, flamebait, redundant, offtopic

Yowzah! (2)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396082)

I guess you can see what The globes position on this is....

Right next to the article, there's information on how to burn cds, ripping software, etc...

It would appear they are on our side.

Stop, thief! (5, Insightful)

mblase (200735) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396083)

I ask them, 'What have you done last week?' They may say they wrote a paper on this or that. So I tell them, 'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too?'

That would be an accurate comparison if people were copying music and then selling them for profit, rather than giving them away for free.

She should have replied: "Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and show it to all their friends as an example of what they think is good writing?" To which I'd reply: Hell, yes. Anything that gets more people to read my columns, articles or books is a good thing for me as an author.

Re:Stop, thief! (1)

kiolbasa (122675) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396150)

I ask them, 'What have you done last week?' They may say they wrote a paper on this or that. So I tell them, 'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too?'

That would be an accurate comparison if people were copying music and then selling them for profit, rather than giving them away for free.

Actually, it would be an even better comparison if people were copying music and taking credit for creating it. Plagiarism is NOT comparable to any copyright-related crime.

Re:Stop, thief! (5, Insightful)

Dephex Twin (416238) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396155)

Right. If somebody thought my "A" paper was really great, and made photocopies of it so they could read it in their car, home, office... yes that would be fine. Even if they shared copies with friends.

That's one thing that's kind of strange. As I was reading her quote, it immediately jumped out at me that her analogy was fundamentally flawed. This took no time at all.

It makes me wonder, has she heard the flaw in this analogy pointed out, and ignored it? Or has she not had a real conversation with someone who is on the other side of the fence? Or is she trying to deliberately give a shoddy analogy in the hopes it gets by people?

mark

Re:Stop, thief! (1)

SlipJig (184130) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396188)

Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too?

I agree that this is an inaccurate analogy. I don't have the ability to sell millions of copies of my A paper and collect royalties not commensurate with the effort I put into it.

Even if I could, what about all A minus papers, who'd be locked out of all that moola? The system as it is set up right now discriminates against small and non-mainstream artists.

I suggest boycotting popular music, at least the major labels. C'mon, it's not THAT good. I've heard lots of unknowns who are as good IMHO as the big names.

Another suggestion: support alternate funding of artists, for example The Street Performer Protocol [counterpane.com].

I don't want anyone to read my A paper!!! (1)

mike_scheck (512662) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396085)

Unless they pay for it. Thats the logic behind this. It's not like everyone who burns a CD is trying to make a profit, the majority of people are in fact just burning CD's for pleasure.

Re:I don't want anyone to read my A paper!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396184)

Unless they pay for it. Thats the logic behind this. It's not like everyone who burns a CD is trying to make a profit, the majority of people are in fact just burning CD's for pleasure.

And you certainly wouldn't be trying to pawn off a Sheryl Crow song as your own now would you? I think this is a bad analogy on her part. As you said, passing around an A paper for people to read is a lot different than turning in someone else's A paper and claiming it is your own. On the same note, passing around a CD or songs is a lot different than passing around the CD and saying your sang the songs on it.

Of course they profit (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396217)

It's not a large profit at first, but someone who copies a CD off of a friend, for his own enjoyment, is profitting about $15.00 - $20.00... the cost of buying the CD himself.

Now compound this by, for example, that this person copies 20 CD's from his friends, all for his own enjoyment, he has made a profit between $300.00 and $400.00.

I was screwed out of a job by the RIAA (-1, Troll)

JZ_Tonka (570336) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396087)

I've seen this sort of thing before, and frankly it concerns me that the RIAA is taking this direction.

Before I was laid off last year, I was in the movie industry working for a company [sony.com] that I am contracturally forbidden from naming. I can tell you, though, that this problem is more widespread than even the Slashdot community suspects.

I first became aware of RIAA's shady business practices when I noticed a friend and former co-worker walking back to his cube from a meeting with our supervisor. Apparently the conversation had gotten rather heated, as more than a few of us noticed the screaming coming from the boss's office. Two days later, my friend was fired.

At first I thought nothing of it, but began to suspect something was going on when 2 HR people and a sales executive were dismissed under similar circumstances. Rumors began spreading, and the general consensus was that these people had been screwed by management because of a disagreement over the RIAA.

I had no idea how true those rumors were. Two weeks after my friend was fired, I found myself before the boss, with several members of upper-management in attendance. I was asked what I knew about RIAA and what my opinion on it was. I answered truthfully: that I was concered that some of the RIAA's goals might put my rights as a citizen in jeopardy. My boss nodded thoughtfully for a second, nodded, and the management guys closed and locked the door of the office. What happened next makes me wince in pain at the mere thought of it.

The two managers, with deceptive strength and agility, shoved me over my boss's desk. They tied my ankles to the feet of the desk, while my boss duct-taped my wrists together around the monitor on his desk. My memory is somewhat blurry about this part, but I remember having my pants torn from my body, and then the managers began taking turns ravaging my virgin cornhole. The rumors were true: there I was, being screwed by management, all because of my feelings on the RIAA.

In the kind of shock that only comes with a brutal ass-raping, I stumbled back to my desk, thankfully unaware of the small stream of blood and jizz that had stained my underwear and begun to ooze down my legs.To complete my utter humiliation, I was given my pink slip 3 days later, before I had even recovered from my ordeal.

Recalling all of this, I can't help but believe that my layoff came as a direct result of the RIAA. Naturally I am concerned whenever the RIAA rears it's ugly head, because I wouldn't wish upon anyone what happened to me. I was afraid the RIAA would take away my rights, but could never have prepared myself for the amount of personal violation that it would bring. Thank you for reading this. May it serve as a warning to all.

Would that bother me? (-1)

October_30th (531777) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396093)

No, of course not.

I never did care about people copying my A reports (had them on a public ftp site on the campus network). Some got caught, some didn't.

The fact remains that none of these guys/girls graduated with particularly good grades or showed any sign of creative problem solving abilities late in the studies or (as far as I know) during the career so far.

Intellectual cheating doesn't get you very far.

I would have written it any ways (1)

Squareball (523165) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396095)

If I wrote an A paper and then some one copied it and also go an A, what difference does it make to me? Although there are many valid arguements to copying music, this isn't one of them. I would have written that paper any way! It isn't costing me money that some one has copied it.

Cassette tapes? (0)

morbid (4258) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396098)

It's been said a million times before, but I'll say it again. In my day we had analogue tapes and we used to record songs to let our friends hear them, in the form of a "compilation tape". That way people got to hear new stuff that didn't get on the radio. People then bought the album if they liked it etc.
These RIAA people are so full of hot air and FUD. Why even bother listening to their drivel? We all no it's impossible for them to stop home recording. Just ignore them and they'll spend a load of money on stupid "prevention measures" that don't work. They're the only ones losing out.

doubt 1st post but. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396102)

The idea that others can/do copy bothers me. I use to get copied in class, and on one occasion a kid took my paper and wrote his name on it. I found him, busted him and the teacher gave a wrist slap. lame.

i have turned in media (cd/floppy/email) type of homework. the plus is speed but on the otherhand, you must have a computer literate teacher.

good teachers are able to regonize students material and know when work has been copied.

but, then again, in coding, code is code.

What about the culture of MP3 Ripping? (5, Insightful)

t0qer (230538) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396107)

I think the author is out of touch with today's kids.

I'm trying to remember the last time I burned a CD for music, I think I only did it when a friend came over and asked if I could copy CD xyz for them. For the most part, I've just about allways ripped to MP3. Pop a disk in, click start, wait about 5 minutes and presto, with ID3 tags provided by CDDB i've just added their music to my collection.

Most of the kids I know with some computer skills (ages 12 and up) do the ripping thing more often than the burning thing. From a price standpoint you never have to use media other than a little hard disk space. With CD's you have to pay out 50cents for a blank every time you want to make one. Don't forget canada either, i'm sure with the new tariff's imposed on recordable media, MP3 ripping will get even more popular over there than ever before.

Personal Investment? (1)

alwayslurking (555708) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396108)

Exactly what "personal investment" does the RIAA bring to the party? Given how much their members have stolen and continue to steal from artists, the only ringing true I hear is my hypocrisy alarm.

The Truth is... (1)

guamman (527778) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396110)

Given the theoretical situation where I would not get into academic trouble for giving out my paper, I'd have no problem with sharing it so that other's could get A's. Especially when I would be able to use someone else's paper and get an A myself. That's open source. To me it sounds great, share my work and end up doing less work overall with greater benefit (all A's). Perhaps the musicians, who must appreciate other's music as well, need to see that if they share theirs [music], they get much more in return [the rest of the world's music].

Product? Nahhh... (1)

reptar64 (220617) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396112)

Not once did the article raise the possibility that maybe, just maybe, poor product might have something to do with lower CD sales.

Out of touch (1)

sacrilicious (316896) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396119)

''This is a sociological problem and we have got to work it out,'' adds Galuten. ''I find it incredibly ironic that some people will spend an extra $1,000 on their hard drives just so they can store more music, but they won't pay for the music.''

Hysterical! If this person was even remotely in touch with technology, they'd know that nobody spends anything remotely close to $1000 on a hard drive.

.

Nice metaphor, Hilary (5, Insightful)

nicwolff (91386) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396121)

Hey, kid, what if you found out that your school has made millions of dollars selling your A paper in stores all over the country, and you got nothing except a contractual obligation to write more papers?

This issue will never go away (2)

TheNecromancer (179644) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396122)

It will continue with more and more people burning DVD's as well as CD's, as the technology progresses and hardware becomes cheaper. I don't see how the RIAA can stop people from burning CD's for their own personal use.

As for burning CD's and selling them, I think that is clearly illegal, but the same problem is how to curb that, while still allowing people to burn CD's for themselves (only).

Artists (2)

photon317 (208409) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396124)

At one time artists were funded by voluntary money from rich patrons. The public enjoyed the art for free. Why hasn't a similar modern system been developed? Perhaps artists should publish their work (whatever the medium) free and redistributable, with embedded linkage/instructions for donating money to the artist. If simple payment infrastructures on the net made this completely painless for the end user, they would probably contribute a dollar or two to the artists they like... and those with more money might donate more. Artists with enough worth and/or popularity would probably make their fair share, and trash would simply die away penniless.

Problems:

1) A lot of popular and/or good artists are entrenched in the current scheme, leaving only the small-fries to try this method, and a majority of them will fail to make money this way, seemingly proving that it just doesn't work.

2) Even if it worked very well, the high end artists would probably bank less than they do now, so they don't have much incentive.... but then again maybe I underestimate the cut of the production/distrubtion monopolies. Perhaps by going direct from studio to consumer and reaping all the money themselves, the actual net intake of the artist would remain the same.

Re:Artists (3, Interesting)

horza (87255) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396190)

You mean a system that retro-fits into the current P2P distribution and MP3 format? That enables people to reward the artist directly cutting out the record label middle-man, whilst being reasonably fraud-resistant? Feel free to post your comments below on the following essay:
Peer-to-peer in profit [progressiv...ishing.com]. Feel free to copy it if you think it will give you an A.

Phillip.

New RIAA materials leaked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396127)

"CD Burning will make you fail school and get pregnant. Be smart - don't start."

what? (2, Insightful)

NickRob (575331) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396129)

But record-label representatives say that home taping was never as prevalent as CD burning

Um... Sure. Try to find somebody who never taped something off of the radio or other medium. Most CD players came with a tape deck so you could tape off the CD to a tape to give it away or play it in your car or something.

The Difference, Hillary (1)

jcenters (570494) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396130)

It seems that Ms. Rosen doesn't know the difference between plagiarism and piracy.

Do your homework, Hillary. Then get back to us. Buh bye now.

Simplistic Analogy (1)

Darth Hubris (26923) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396131)

It would bother me. It would bother me if the school superintendant peddled the paper for $17.99, using $.50 worth of material, and I as the author received maybe a dollar for each copy.

The CD copying analogy really breaks down because anyone trying to push an Eagles song as their own would be laughed off.

I bought 1000 BLANKS last year here at work... (2)

mcwop (31034) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396132)

to burn online demos onto. Not one was used for music. That is 1000 v. the 10 mix music cd's I made at home from my legally purchased music CD's.

I bet CD's used for data distribution and storage push these numbers way up. Lies, damned lies.

Just don't!!!!! (0)

bgog (564818) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396133)

If they would like to individually prosecute each individual who illegally copies music or software, that's fine with me. They just had better not mess with my freedom to use the technology for legal perposes! Bah.

That's the problem with "work for hire" (1)

Dead Penis Bird (524912) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396134)

And letting others have distribution rights to your own work. The creator has no say anymore!

And as for Hilary Rosen's analogy:

Let's say that "getting an A" is like getting paid for your work. This is analogous to others selling the work as their own and getting paid. Music sharing is more like your friend copying your paper and giving it to others in your class and saying "Look what good work my friend's capable of. Go read it." What Rosen describes are two different phenomena.

And I'd be very proud of my work, indeed.

Sex appeal to burning CDs? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396135)

I'm waiting ladies! Big spindle o' 100 CDs just waiting to be burned.

Social Events (1)

Burgundy Advocate (313960) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396137)

Yeah, sure, it's a social event. Just like listening to 45's.

With one small difference -- the 45's were bought legally.

Now when you're making your mix CD, do you own that music you're burning onto there? Or was it a bunch of mp3's that you've downloaded from the Internet?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I would hope that it's becoming more clear to people that this is fully illegal. "Fair Use" is a pretty broad concept, but it doesn't allow for blatently stealing music for your own use. It's shameful that parents don't better inform their children about theft.

I'm amazed that this kind of uninformed naivety about the music industry still exists. If people keep stealing their music, artists won't have any means or motivation to make more music.

And that would be a sad thing indeed.

Re:Social Events (-1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396227)

Hey Boinko... Frank-0 is passing you the virtual bong!

Take your hit at: http://www.rgbdream.com/bong/ [rgbdream.com]

Frank-0 is also trying to say: Happy 4-20 day, d00d!!!

The world's best virtual bong is a service of RGBdream.com and is made possible in part by that guy who just brought RGBdream.com a pizza and some cheese sticks.

E-mail the administrator at bongmaster@rgbdream.com or visit his web site: http://www.rgbdream.com/

If you received this message in error, RGBdream.com would like to apologize, but there's nothing RGBdream.com can do to stop people sending you virtual bongs, so take it up with the senders. RGBdream.com does not sell or give out anyone's e-mail addresses because that shit really sucks. The virtual bong is for virtual tobacco use only. Any other use may or may not be in violation of applicable laws in your area and all that stuff. Or else it might be really cool. Or both. Whatever. Sender IP: 10.0.0.0

Hillary is a moron. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396143)

So I tell them, 'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too? Would that bug you?'

Why no, It wouldn't bother me so long as they pay me royalties. Why... that's the American way, right? You stupid bitch.

The culture that RIAA needs to figure out... (1)

Microsift (223381) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396146)

is the culture of CD buying. I have a friend who burns CD's as a hobby, he likes gathering songs together, and making compilation CD's. He used to do this with tapes. I've got a bunch of albums that I bought because I heard the artist on one of the compilation CD's. I like owing CD's, I like seeing the band, reading the lyrics, reading the liner notes etc... It's not as satisfying as buying an album was, but it is better than just having a copy.


RIAA needs to encourage people like my friend to keep on making mix CD's for their friends, it actually creates demand for, and adds value to their product.

Other people the recording industry screwed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396149)

Or tried to.

I remember on VH1's behind the music on Jim Croce his widow had to take the record company to court to get fair compensation. They were making millions off his alblum sales but had shafted him on the contract. If I remember right she eventually won.

Mix Tapes, etc... (2, Insightful)

PhunkyOne (531072) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396154)

Burning CDs are just like in the 80s when we made mix tapes. It takes music we generally already have and makes it personal. You have mix tapes (now CDs for your different moods). The industry wants to say and prohibit burning CDs that's just dumb, if I have a song it's because I really like it and I would've bought it because I really want that CD quality.

This brings me back to the buying CD Quality music by the track [slashdot.org]... But their greedy, etc etc...Heck I just throw away the cases and liner notes anyway so it's waste of money for me to have that junk anyway.

wtf? (1)

kemster (532022) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396156)

An interesting one from Hilary Rosen: "I ask them, 'What have you done last week?' They may say they wrote a paper on this or that. So I tell them, 'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too? Would that bug you?' So this sense of personal investment does ring true with people."

This analogy makes no sense. Maybe if people were selling burned CD's, then it would ring true, but how am I "getting an A" by listening to a CD with burned music? A better analogy might be: "Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and read it and enjoy it too? Would that bug you?" That's the right analogy, and my answer is: No, it would not bug me. My master's thesis is online for all to enjoy.

Get the Salon article right! (3, Insightful)

ancarett (221103) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396158)

Seems like at least one musician thinks his A paper is being peddled all over town.

Ptui! Read the article at Salon and you'll see that Byrd isn't claiming lots of people are swapping and burning his songs. He's irked at Sony because he hasn't seen a penny of artist royalties on either of his two albums which are still in the catalogue (though he started getting composer royalties after he was contacted to let another artist record one of his songs). He'd rather have the music available freely if the artist is never going to see any payment.

Flawed logic (1)

jurros (110198) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396161)

Ok.. Not to support this one way or another, but logic is EXTREMELY flawed. NO ONE is trying to take burned cd's that are current hits (A papers) and trying to get a record deal (an A for themselves). That's just ridicules.

The logic should be: If you wrote an A paper and everyone passed it around and enjoyed it, would that bother you. But there's no bite to that, because I don't think that would care anyone. In fact, most people would probably be so proud that their paper was enjoyed, that they'd encourage sharing it.

Oh... and everyone look closely! This may be the only time you'll ever see "sex appeal" and "Sheryl Crow" in the same sentence!

RIAA lies (3, Informative)

rgmoore (133276) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396162)

Of course the big point that's missed in all of this is that the RIAA continues to mislead people and lie outright about the legality of copying. Non-commercial duplication of CDs is specifically allowed under current copyright law, and the CDs used in stand-alone CD copiers even include a royalty payment in their cost that goes to the RIAA. But Hillary Rosen continues to make it sound as though copying for your friends is illegal. But the mentions of the fact that it actually is legal gets only a short mention down at the bottom of the article.

The 'A' paper quote is misleading... (1)

bhorling (42813) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396170)

That quote about someone peddling your 'A' paper around town to get an 'A' is misleading. A better analogy would be that you wrote an 'A' paper, and now it is being circulated among a community which likes to read good papers. They aren't passing it off as their own (as she implied), they are appreciating the work for what it is.

Would it bother me? (1)

tinhorn king (557656) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396174)

>>"I ask them, 'What have you done last week?' They may say they wrote a paper on this or that. So I tell them, 'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too? Would that bug you?' Quite frankly Hilary, no. Art for arts sake, and all.

Not Really the same thing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396181)

listening to a burned cd is like reading someones paper, not submitting it as your own.

people aren't claiming they created the music, making money from it, reaping acclaim, or rewards, there just enjoying it.

if someone else read my thesis i'd be kinda happy, means I didn't waste my time (i wasted theirs :p

Paper logic (1)

NickRob (575331) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396182)

"Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too? Would that bug you?' So this sense of personal investment does ring true with people."

He must not be familiar with those "services" that allow people (for a nominal fee of course) to go and dl other people's papers and turn them in.

Burning Mixes != Plagiarism (2)

Sean Clifford (322444) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396187)

Copying tracks off a CD and burning a compilation is not analagous to copying a friend's term paper and turning it in with your name on it. You're not representing that you created the music, hence you're not plagiarizing the music. It's a stupid analogy.

Right and wrong is out the window (1)

FransUNC (518475) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396192)

It's not about right or wrong anymore. It's about money. There's no need to even discuss this or comment on any comments the industry makes considering right and wrong, because it's not important. It should be, but it's not.

The media industry (audio and video) is determined to do whatever will give them the most profit, or more likely, reduce lost profits. I say that, because they could probably increase profits if they went along with the flow of this file sharing revolution rather than fighting it as strong as they are.

Right and wrong stopped mattering the moment the media industry took control of it. Now they make the laws (with the help of self-admitted naive lawmakers) that determine right and wrong.

On a positive note, Wilco's new album Yankee Hotel Foxtrot hit stores today. I'd recommend picking it up. Reprise gave one listen to it and kicked the band off their label. Nonesuch Records picked the band up. Interesting enough, AOL Time Warner owns both Reprise and Nonesuch...isn't this industry great? Anyways, this horrible horrible album that Reprise threw away to Nonesuch is quoted by Rolling Stone as "The first great album of the year." They also gave it 4 stars. Show the record industry that the people decide what's good music, not them. Don't buy J.Lo. Support Wilco!

So you too got an A ? (2, Funny)

forged (206127) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396193)

So I tell them,
-Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A?

-No sir, I wrote a paper and got Slashdotted.

Hilary Rosen is confused ... (1)

blandthrax (575357) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396198)

"I ask them, 'What have you done last week?' They may say they wrote a paper on this or that. So I tell them, 'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too? Would that bug you?' So this sense of personal investment does ring true with people."

WTF? It's not the same thing ... if I take someone's A paper and put my name on it quite obviously that is plagirism. If I take my firends Sheryl Crow CD and burn it and listen to it on my computer, I haven't put my name on it or taken credit for the Sheryl Crow's music. You still know it is Sheryl Crow. Jesus, much of the intent of copyright is to prevent one's work from being appropriated by others, not to prevent stealing. I don't think anyone in their right mind would try to pass off a Britney Spears CD as their own work (and why would they want to). Insofar as trying to make the point that burning a copy of a copyrighted, widely distributed compact disc by a internationally known recording artist is the same thing as putting your name on some run of the mill term paper by an unknown high school student is a lot like comparing apples and oranges (or some cliche like that).

Tax on blank CD's is... (2)

mcwop (31034) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396201)

Bogus. What if I use the CD's for data backup for photos etc... That has nothing to do with Music.

Stop, thief! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3396204)

I ask them, 'What have you done last week?' They may say they wrote a paper on this or that. So I tell them, 'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too?'

That would be an accurate comparison if people were copying music and then selling them for profit, rather than giving them away for free.

She should have replied: "Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and show it to all their friends as an example of what they think is good writing?" To which I'd reply: Hell, yes. Anything that gets more people to read my columns, articles or books is a good thing for me as an author.

Uh (2)

PlaysWithMatches (531546) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396205)

'Oh, you wrote a paper, and you got an A? Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too? Would that bug you?'

The difference there is that someone is getting credit or compensation for that paper they "took." If I download an album off <favorite spyware fileshare app> and listen to it, that is in no way analgous to plagiarizing someone's paper/song/whatever. I'm not claiming I wrote the music, or that I performed it, or anything like that.

Nice try, Rosen, but that analogy is pretty damn flawed. Next!

Rosen is an idiot (2)

multipartmixed (163409) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396206)

Let's see. Copying someone's A paper and calling it your own is plagarism. Copying a CD is sharing.

A better analogy would be "How would you like it if somebody took your A paper, and made a photocopy of it for his friend to enjoy".

Gee, that analogy is *way* more accurate, but doesn't set off alarmist bells. Wonder why it wasn't made..

Quote (1)

Washizu (220337) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396207)

"I said, `Well, what if you could steal a penny from every senior citizen's bank account in the country? They're not going to miss it, but you'd quickly make yourself a million dollars. Now what would happen if everybody behaved that way?`" - Dreese of Newbury Comics

Sounds like we'd all be millionaires! Woohoo!

Quote from the article... (0, Offtopic)

El_Smack (267329) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396210)

"If they can screw Peggy Lee or the Dixie Chicks, then they can pretty much get away with anything."

Now the Dixie Chicks I can see, but Peggy Lee?!?! I didn't even think Sony would stoop that low.

Good God (1)

NickRob (575331) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396219)

These people don't understand that there's a LEGIT reason to buy blank CDs? Some things I don't want sitting on my hard drive but I need to have a copy of. The RIAA even gets money off of that CD that I didn't even put a piece of music on. Yet burning == bad == illegal to them regardless of anything. See both sides of the argument my foot!

This is the dilemma (3, Informative)

dipfan (192591) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396220)

Yet even [Elvis] Costello acknowledges that, at least in terms of the big record companies, ''They've loaded the game so the house has been winning for a long time. Now it's time maybe for the house not to win for a while. Maybe they have to take some losses.''

Actually it looks like they are taking some losses now - there's a very interesting (but long and a bit heavy on the piracy angle) article from the Observer newspaper in the UK [observer.co.uk], that used a net monitoring company to track how many downloads of music and movies are being done through KaZaA and similar. The article has a table of the top 10 downloads: number one was Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory with more than 5 million in a month - that's how many copies the album sold retail last year in total. You may not like the music industry, or agree with their tactics, but they gotta be hurting. Get ready for copy-protected music CDs, coming soon to every store near you.

From the article:

Top 10 downloaded movies
1 Black Hawk Down 169,000
2 The Fast and the Furious 168,000
3 The Lord of the Rings 165,000
4 Ocean's Eleven 154,000
5 Harry Potter 147,000
6 Monsters Inc 146,000
7 Collateral Damage 134,000
8 American Pie 2 126,000
9 A Beautiful Mind 125,000
10 Ali 100,000

Top 10 pirated albums downloaded last month
1 Linkin Park -Hybrid Theory 5,300,000
2 POD - Satellite 2,800,000
3 Creed - Weathered 2,600,000
4 Sum 41 - All Killer No Filler 2,500,000
5 Britney Spears - Britney 2,000,000
6 Nelly - Country Grammar 2,000,000
7 Nelly, et al - Training Day Soundtrack 1,800,000
8 Creed - Human Clay 1,600,000
9 Usher - 8701 1,500,000
10 Incubus - Make Yourself 1,500,000

Burning CDs = Making tapes (3, Interesting)

FatRatBastard (7583) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396221)

Burning CDs is really no different that making mixed tapes (culturally, at least for me). Only the technology has changed. I'm not going to get into the legality of the issue, but its not like this type of activity is now somehow new. I make tapes (and burn CDs) for other people for much the same way I lend out books I like: because I want to share with them something I like, give them something that makes them happy (or impress them enough to let me get into their pants).

What's the upshot of all of this (other than trying to get laid)? I've discovered a whole lot of new music from tapes others have given me. Sure, a huge chuck of it gets listened to once or twice, but a lot of the time I end up discovering something special. And I figure the same thing happens to people to whom I give tapes to.

Now, the record companies can do their best to squash this, and in a very abstract way I can see their point of view (lets ignore the fact that they screw over artists and want to destroy fair use in the country), but in the end they're just going to hurt themselves. Casual sharing of music (as opposed to outright, high volume piracy) I think is a bigger marketing tool than radio and MTV combined. How did Metallica (or the vast majority of bands who aren't marketed to the hilt the second they're signed) get so big in the 80s/90s? They had little to no radio airplay, no presence on MTV, and as far as I can remember no huge push from their record company? I'd wager mostly from social sharing, whether it be listening to it in your bud's car, or a tape your friend threw at you that he made. I know I've bought just as much (if not more) music due to stuff I've heard on small webcasts, friends apartments and mixed tapes as I've ever heard from commercial radio and marketing.

Salon Article, JWZ's DNA Lounge position (3, Informative)

Raetsel (34442) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396224)


The Salon article is quite interesting...
  1. Joseph Byrd records two albums in the late 60s
  2. They're released on vinyl
  3. They're re-released on CD
  4. It's 35 years later, and he has yet to receive any royalties on it!

    (Part of the trouble stems from a missing contract.)

    Sony, having bought out Columbia Records ignores his requests for sales figures of his material -- no denials, no "we're looking into it," silence!

JWZ had this interesting little bit
  • "In case you're unclear on how RIAA, ASCAP, BMI, etc. work, it's like this: everyone who comes anywhere near any kind of music is expected to pay them. They'll sue you into oblivion if you don't. Then, regardless of what music you were playing, they take your money, keep most of it for themselves, and then divide the rest statistically based on the Billboard charts. That means that no matter what kind of obscure, underground music you played, 3/4ths of the extortion money you paid goes to whichever company owns N'Sync; and the rest goes to Michael Jackson (since he owns The Beatles' catalog); and all other artists (including the ones whose music you actually played) get nothing."

CD's vs Cassettes (1)

cowboy junkie (35926) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396231)

Whenever I hear the music industry gripe about falling profits, etc. I just think about how cd's cost twice as much as cassettes of the exact same music while the production costs of both are neglible. Has there ever been an explanation for this price gouging?

This is what she really said... (5, Funny)

infinite9 (319274) | more than 11 years ago | (#3396234)

Would it bother you if somebody could just take that paper and get an A too?

That should read: Would if bother you if someone copied your paper instead of paying me for the paper I coerced you into giving me?

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