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ATi's New All-In-Wonder Radeon 8500 128MB

timothy posted more than 11 years ago | from the all-this-and-much-much-more dept.

Graphics 248

KillaBee writes "ATi has taken the wraps off their latest addition to their 'All In Wonder' product line of graphics cards with TV and video editing functionality. The All In Wonder Radeon 8500 128MB card, reviewed here, has ATi's fastest Radeon 8500 core along with a full 128MB of 300MHz DDR SDRAM (600MHz DDR). This is ATi's 'Swiss Army Knife' card that brings with it very competitive 3D graphics performance as well."

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248 comments

Graham (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398262)

ATI have this market all wrapped up at the moment, and the prices are good for both the AIW products and the standard Radeon cards. Drivers are a lot better as well. Nothing that is as good as a GeForce 4 Ti4600 though, but that is darn expensive :)

Re:Graham (Graham???) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398285)

Darned first post huntin' made me type in the local football clubs manager than a topic title. Must post less on those footie sites...

Shoot me down with a feather, I got it though, and it was on topic.

Now to read the review....

I remember the days when 256KB VGA cards were all the rage - and everyone sensible had Amigas...

Re:Graham (1)

kwishot (453761) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398316)

Hardly.

"ATI have this market all wrapped up at the moment, and the prices are good for both the AIW products and the standard Radeon cards."

The prices for the GeforceX products are good too, and the price difference is relative to performance.

"Drivers are a lot better as well"

Don't make me go there. ATI's website is hell (dont know how bad it is currently, but historically it's been a huge mess) so it's near impossible to find out which driver you need. Not to mention Detonator is the bomb.

"Nothing that is as good as a GeForce 4 Ti4600 though"

You just contradicted yourself.

"but that is darn expensive "
Again..price relative to performance. In technology, you're always going to pay top dollar for that "last little bit" be it difference between a 2.0ghz cpu and a 2.2ghz cpu. The Ti4600 chews up and spits out the Radeon cards. In the high end market (the one you're referring to) nVidia is most definitely king.

-kwishot

nVidia Ti4600 based card with video-in? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398333)

ANd how do I watch TV on an nVidia Ti4600? Oh, I can't except by some very low quality USB dongle. No thanks. That is why ATI has the market for graphics cards with video-in/out capability all wrapped up. And ATI's drivers are a lot better ... than their older ones!

Re:Graham (4, Interesting)

irregular_hero (444800) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398436)

Don't make me go there. ATI's website is hell (dont know how bad it is currently, but historically it's been a huge mess) so it's near impossible to find out which driver you need. Not to mention Detonator is the bomb.

Hmm. Last I checked, the "Find a Driver" link on the front page went right to a selection screen for card and OS. Maybe that's a different ATI.

The poster that you're complaining about is actually right. In terms of the "all-in-one" Video Input-capable cards, ATI has always had the best set of utilities and hardware for people who didn't care about getting a bit higher in Quake's frame rate. Hydravision, ATI's multiple monitor-support software, is still head and shoulders better than any other video card manufacturer's setup. And ATI's "multimedia" applications are tightly integrated and work well. nVidia's "Personal Cinema" is quite a bit clunkier and not integrated with the other media "bits" as well. I know -- I use both.

Where ATI has always fallen down is the quality and efficiency of their drivers. They don't release performance fixes well or often enough, although they've made some good strides to get better. Now that ATI sells chipsets to other manufacturers (following nVidia's lead), we might see them start beating on the capabilities of their drivers soon enough.

Case in point: On paper, the Radeon 8500/128 has some features that could give it a definative edge on the Ti4. Unbound by drivers, it could very well have higher performance than most of the nVidia chipsets -- it already pushes the envelope set by the Ti3 very well. It has a highly efficient way of managing memory bandwidth -- of which it has more of than the nVidia card... It has an incredible shading engine that promises nearly double the performance of anything on the nVidia card... Its GPU, the PTIII, is theoretically capable of a higher fillrate at 32-bit than the nVidia card.

But, of course, it all comes down to how well the software interfaces with the hardware. The drivers need work. Maybe ATI will get it together, and maybe it won't.

It'll be fun to watch. I, frankly, can't wait until there's some good competition among video chipset vendors. I was getting bored after 3dfx tanked.

Re:Graham (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398638)

Oh hell yeah!
I hate digging for drivers. And I'm lazy.

One driver to rule them all...

Hire me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398338)

I need a job.
I have been reading slashdot most of the time of employment for the last few years, so I am well qualified at most programming positions.

Send email to me directly if you have a job that might interest me.

Thanks

-a

Re:Hire me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398355)

Okay, send me the code and I will send you payment in the post. Oh, the code I need is a nuclear power station control application - our platform is Windows 98, and the language is VB6. We need it quite quickly as the core appears to be heating up right now.

Re:Hire me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398415)

Sub Main result% = MsgBox ("WOULD U LIEK TO SHUT DOWN THA REACTOR?", Vb_No, "DANGER! OVERHEATING IMMIENENT") If result% = Vb_Yes Then ' TODO -- emergency shutdown code End If End Sub

Re:Hire me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398634)

Hi, does that come with usage documentation. The people round the power plant are right Homers (in joke) so we need clear documentation. With pictures of donuts to make sure that it is read.

Re:Graham (1)

shokk (187512) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398499)

Actually, most recent reviews have placed the Ti4400 at better than the 8500s and comparably priced. The all-in-one capability of this card makes me ambivalent between the two, though. Will I really record that much video to disk (already have a TiVo) or should I just continue to concentrate on the games? Maybe when the highest density DVD recorders are finally available. I think I shall game now.

sweet (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398264)

when can I get one with mac support? FP

Re:sweet (1)

jchristopher (198929) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398551)

when can I get one with mac support?

If ATI's past history holds: 12-18 months, if they decide to sell one at all.

ATI? (0, Flamebait)

SeanTobin (138474) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398269)

I know this has been discussed before, and I'm not about to rehash it. I just hope /. is getting a good check for this one. Maybe next time there will be a nice link so we can buy it directly?

DAMN! (1)

kuyttendaele (115164) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398271)

Just bought a ATI Radeon Aiw 8500 (64Mb version) 14 days ago :-( :-( :-(
Anyway wanne buy a second hard Aiw?

Karel

Re:DAMN! (1)

pennsol (317791) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398296)

They'll give you an upgrade credit if you'd like to trade up..they'll also give you credit..i think $100 for trading in you Nvidia for a new 8500 AIW.. sounds like they're scared...I personaly wouldn't trade mt Geforce4 4600 for anything..;)

Re:DAMN! (3, Informative)

twilight30 (84644) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398331)

Some points to mention:
  • It's available to US & Cdn. end users only
  • You get more if you supply them with old ATI cards, I believe (about $50 US/Cdn, depending on where you are).
The FAQ is available here [ati.com] and applies to both PC and Mac architectures.

Re:DAMN! (1)

kawaichan (527006) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398302)

Don't worry about it, that extra 64MB does next to nothing (ex speed increase)

you will have to wait a while for games to take advantage of those extra RAM, but by then, you would be drooling for something better.

RAM is cheap, ATi and NIVIDA just put more RAM so people would upgrade.

color me wide (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398272)




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Re:color me wide (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398460)


  1. If you get page widening from parent post, just get Mozilla. [mozilla.org] It's free, fast, and just plain better.
  2. The title of this page should begin with ATI, not ATi.

Minor Disparities. (1)

alphaparadigm (306270) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398278)

Is it just me or are the specs onf the sight != to the specs in the post?

Aside from that, it looks like we have another good option for those of us who want to do tons of different things with our video card/computer setup.

PCI? (4, Interesting)

CmdrTaco (editor) (564483) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398292)

I may be a minority here, but recently I've been searching for PCI versions of cards such as this ATI one. I've been trying to make a home made TIVO type box, and so far I have a FlexATX Sis620 board with a 533 Celeron in a Sahara1000 FlexATX case. The problem is there are only 2 PCI and no AGP, so I'm quite limited in my choices for quality capture cards such as the All-In-Wonder. Is there any reason why most of the video cards geared toward capability rather than gaming performance are also almost exclusively manufactured as AGP? I'd think hardcore gaming would be just about the only reason to need big boost in speeds.

Re:PCI? (2, Informative)

gricholson75 (563000) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398309)

I have a PCI version of the AIW Radeon in a p3 667 and it works very well. These cards are all over for around $120.

Re:PCI? (4, Insightful)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398357)

Dude, for the price of such a card, you could buy a tivo. With some money left over for the 100baseT card for it. I wasn't required to subscribe when I bought mine, and I don't plan on it. A dedicated solution, a cheap solution.. no dropped frames or segfaults. If you want to build your own, to say that you've done such a thing, good luck. But if you just want a kickass linux PVR... someone already makes it.

To be honest, I can think of many early PCI TV tuner cards you might buy, but without checking I'd think the performance on those would be horrible. Everything that is current, is high end, for professional use. $700 and up.

Re:PCI? (1)

jchristopher (198929) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398536)

OT, I know, but would you be willing to comment on what functionality is available to you on the Tivo unit without paying for a subscription?

I'm interested in getting one, and I only care about two things:

1. Ability to pause live show for a few minutes (phone rings, bathroom break, etc.) and then resume.

2. Ability to tell Tivo to record at a certain day/time. (ideally it would sit between my DirecTV box and the TV, and just record whatever is on the pipe at that time.)

If I get the box, can I do those without subscribing?

Re:PCI? (3, Interesting)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398598)

#1 works out of the box. The thing by default records up to an hour's previous footage constantly, allowing pause, replay, etc. Changing the channel kills this (it starts a new buffer).

#2 is possible, and somewhat simple. You'll have to screw around a bit, to get a bash prompt on the serial port. Once there, you send a few pre-compiled binaries to it, allowing some more functionality (this doesn't require opening the thing, no idea how it affects the warranty). The simplest way would be to set up some script on a cron tab that shells in and manually starts up the appropriate binaries. You can of course manually record shows.

Also, the guide format is partially/completely hacked, but isn't public. It wouldn't be too tough to write a libwww perl script to grep tvguide.com listings, and reformat it in a way that the tivo would understand. I'm not sure what more I can say that would be legally safe.

Re:PCI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398505)

dude, don't mess with those AIW cards

hop on ebay and grab a hauppage. got one in my car and on my pvr (i have a few fic sabre 1815) and they works great (fbsd)

Re:PCI? (3, Funny)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398509)

t's Spring, and the need for a new video card presents itself. Why? Because the one you bought 6 months ago is "outdated," meaning it doesn't get the highest FPS on some benchmark site like the one whored in this article.

So is it time to drop the $400? To rely on buggy drivers rushed out by ATi or nVidia? To snarl at DirectX's mysterious problems, which may or may not be related to some of your older hardware not agreeing with your new card?

You've stared at the numbers on the site, and you don't see any reason why not. Did you know some sites exist (and make money) just by getting new video cards and "benchmarking" (aka "playing") them? Is this fair? Are you going to contribute to this universally unfair practice? Of course, you clicked through to buy from the first vendor listed on the site. You can hardly wait for the UPS man to come tomorrow (you can afford expedited shipping, you only paid 95% of what you'd pay at a retail store anyway).

As a savvy PC gamer, you've already downloaded the latest crack off Usenet. You never pay for software-why should you? The hardware costs enough as it is, besides, each game on the PC is just an iteration of Doom or Command and Conquer. Brainless blowing away, or boring resource management? You love 'em both. Or at least, they're available, and you play them.

You laugh at your buddies with an Xbox, because "I can build a more powerful system than that for half the cost!" You've scorned the Gamecube because "The Gamepurse is for kiddies!" Your Playstation 2, purchased for Final Fantasy X, lies collecting dust next to your DVD player (which sucks compared to the one on your computer-NATCH!)

You pause a bit to think about your computer purchases over the last year:

  • Athlon T-bird and motherboard-$250.

  • Athlon XP and motherboard-$400.

  • "L337" Custom Water Cooled Case-$300

  • 1 Gig RAM (purchased 256MB at a time)-$400.

  • SB Audigy-$95.

  • GeForce 3-$350.

Now this Radeon card will be about $400, but it's worth it! Buy a Mac? Never! They don't have games, and besides, they're too expensive.

Buyer's remorse never seizes your temples with its steely vice grip. You'll never lose your job at the helpdesk, and even if you do, Mom and Dad will be there to help you out. You're a sharp guy, and you're surely going places. Right after this game of Return to Castle Wolfenstein, that is...

ATi? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398294)

What's up with this lowercase i? ATI trying to jump on the titanium bandwagon?

Re:ATi? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398301)

Nah, poster got confused with ALi, the chipset maker which does have a lower case 'i'... idiot.

must not be selling enough (1, Flamebait)

tps12 (105590) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398297)

Okay, are we going to have to see this every half hour? I am not buying one.

At least they have not reposted Katz's ad for his fucking dog book or whatever.

I hope ATI finally pulls it off (5, Interesting)

wackybrit (321117) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398300)

In the past, ATI's 'All In Wonder' cards have been pretty crappy compared to the other cards out at the same time. You wouldn't be running Quake1/2 at a decent res on those puppies with a good framerate.. whereas the TNT was far better but had far less 'features'.

Finally it seems video processing power has reached a level similar to that of CPU power. That is, the latest 'high-end' spec is overkill for 95% of applications, and very fast 'general use' products (such as the All-In-Wonder) are now actually pretty good.

This card will satisfy nearly all users except those who want to run Quake 3 at 1600x1200 in 32 bit color, and offers more 'user features' than regular nVidia based cards can currently bring to the table. However, unlike with past All-In-Wonder cards, this will actually be able to run most games at a decent speed in a decent resolution!

Good for ATI!

Re:I hope ATI finally pulls it off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398320)

This card will run Quake III at 1600x1200 in 32 bit colour and at a more than decent rate as well.

This All-In-Wonder *is* a Radeon 8500, but with added video in, etc, capability. Ideal for connecting to your game console because your parents want to watch TV and you want to play GTA3 without your parents seeing the hookers, etc...

Re:I hope ATI finally pulls it off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398341)

Don't worry, much like other ATI cards, this one runs at half the framerate of the latest GeForce offering. Damn shame.

Can I throw out my TV yet? (1)

geoffsmith (161376) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398303)

I already use my computer to watch movies, TV shows. My LCD monitor seems fast enough to handle it, and the quality is awesome. With a card like this, and a DVD drive, who needs a TV any more?

I just miss the remote.

Websurfing: The Next Generation - StumbleUpon [stumbleupon.com]

Re:Can I throw out my TV yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398366)

um...the all in wonder radeon's (7500 and 8500) come wtih a remote.......

Re:Can I throw out my TV yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398438)

who needs a TV any more?

I do. I don't think my friends are going to want to crowd around my 19" monitor to watch Buffy.

Re:Can I throw out my TV yet? (2, Informative)

andrewjnr (90426) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398474)

It come's with a remote dude... A radio USB remote no less, you can hook it up downstairs, and watch it on the TV upstairs, with no loss of control.. I'll be looking into getting a PCI version this.

Not a duplicate! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398307)

The last All-in-Wonder story was about the stripped-down cheapo extra-good-value AIW. This story is about the 128MB beefed-up version.

No more ATI for me (1)

TheSHAD0W (258774) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398312)

I used to be a big fan of ATI; in fact, I'm using one at this very moment (at the time, the Radeon VE was one of the few readily available dual display cards, and I had no luck with two cards in one system). But I've found their drivers to cause serious problems with Win2K, my console OS of choice, and will not be buying any more of their cards. I'm in the market for a GeForce 4 Ti 4200 (seems there's one company already making them) with dual outputs, and when I find one, bye bye, ATI.

Re:No more ATI for me (3, Informative)

Coolfish (69926) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398348)

hear hear. Just like Matrox, I thought they had some inovative technology that other companies weren't really interested in (the Rainbow Runner G, Dualhead, etc. for example). But the simple fact remains that just like Matrox, ATI has awful customer support, and terrible drivers. Then, once you figure "okay, this technology has had time to mature, i can expect some solid drivers", tada, they discontinue the product.

So what do you do? Get a video card that has all these snazzy new features, but you bring it home and the drivers don't even suppor it yet? (my Ati Radeon VE refused to do both monitors at acceptable resolutions, and it took them a long time to even acknowledge the issue). I've figured I'll go with a company that at least appears to support their cards properly, Nvidia. I'm looking forward to my next upgrade.

Re:No more ATI for me (2)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398486)

Mod this up, dont every buy the bull "Drivers will mature".

Learn from past mistakes, even if the hardware is good, they write bad drivers, bad software, and they lie about benchmarks.

Im sticking with Nvidia, and My version 2880 linux nvidia drivers rock my linux world.

Re:No more ATI for me (2)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398379)

yeah it's a real pain, I had to install WinXP instead of Windows 2000 and only the MS drivers worked, ATI ones where a disaster although my friend says that the ATI drivers has been fixed now.

Re:No more ATI for me (1)

ctr2sprt (574731) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398423)

ATI has a long and noble history of releasing the worst, lowest-quality, most unusable drivers ever. It wasn't enough that they wrote horrible drivers: they refused to make any efforts to improve the situation. They refused to admit there was a problem; they refused to fix the bugs; they invariably claimed it was a motherboard problem when I complained. I swear, if ATI would hire some people who had the slightest clue how to write decent drivers, nobody would ever have heard of NVIDIA.

They've made so many good products crippled by unusable drivers. It's kind of a shame. I know I'll never buy an ATI product after my one experience with them. I've already talked several friends out of purchases. Even if it should ever come to pass that ATI has the best cards (and drivers), the company's attitude has convinced me never to buy any ATI product, no matter what.

I wonder how many other people feel this way about ATI. I know of at least a few.

Review skimps on the video recording features (5, Informative)

Brento (26177) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398313)

As an All-In-Wonder Radeon owner, just want to clear up the things the article glosses over. You can't set it to record the same show no matter what time it comes on, you can't view listings more than 7 days in advance, and unlike a Tivo, it won't record similar shows for you. This is not set-it-and-forget-it software, and people need to stop comparing it to Tivo. It's much closer to a VCR than to Tivo: you have to manually program it, and it's just not that smart. (The quality's outstanding, though.)

Re:Review skimps on the video recording features (3, Insightful)

56ker (566853) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398429)

Articles are generally based on press releases which emphasise the good points of a product - for an unbiased opinion you need to ask someone who actually has one before buying.

Re:Review skimps on the video recording features (2)

interstellar_donkey (200782) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398468)

for an unbiased opinion you need to ask someone who actually has one before buying

Or go to a review site that does'nt just rehash the promotional lititure (or in this case, copy from the back of the box)

Re:Review skimps on the video recording features (1)

seann (307009) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398555)

Did you know that the ATi AIW series are just like a TiVO?!
They even say TIVO on the box!
Why right now I have my tv in, and video going out!

slashdot (0, Flamebait)

tps12 (105590) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398315)

As if this duplicate of a blatant advertisement is not insulting enough, I just got a taste of a Flash banner ad. Thank you, slashdot, once again.

And I thought page widening posts were fixed. I guess I was hoping for too much. Instead of fixing slashcode they just break it differently.

Someone should organize a boycott of slashdot or something.

But does it work in Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398328)

The card would be kinda useless without drivers...

Re:But does it work in Linux? (2, Informative)

bcjanes (469676) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398417)

It all should work, except for 3d. The ATI cards have had excellent 2d support in Xfree for a while now, and progress is being made on the 3d support.

From what I can gather, the mach 64 series, and Radeon 8500 series should have 3d support by Xfree 4.3 or 4.4

I certianly hope so, they are excellent cards IMHO, and the only real player left for open-source accellerated 3d.

Yes, I know that Nvidia makes drivers available for linux for the Gforce series of chips, but they are propietary only, and not officially supported. Try calling up Nvidia's support line and asking for help.

Nvidia won't release their specs so the Xfree project can't easily write good drivers for them. I don't know about you, but I really don't want a kernel level driver that is closed source mingling with my kernel. How are you supposed to fix it if it breaks something?

DUPLICATE POSTING SANCTIONED ON SLASHDOT! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398337)

...of the Trolling And Crapflooding FAQ, that is! The only question that remains on people's lips is, "How much am I paying Slashdot to have my comment posted so many times?"

This FAQ is designed to give tips on trolling on Slashdot, created in celebration of Blackout Week. It is dedicated to all hard-working trolls and crapflooders.

What are some good trolling tips?
Trolling is all about making people think you care, and so winding up those who care for real. Think of it like shooting a deer in front of an anti-hunt protester, or eating a Big Mac in front of a vegan. Here are some ideas for making your troll work:

  1. To start off, make sure your post gets noticed -- log in, post early (after 50 +1 comments have been posted to an article, forget it), and make sure to use your +1 bonus.
  2. Ensure your posting history doesn't show a history of dubious posts. Some advise (incorrectly) to stagger your trolls, but this is in fact time wasting and only helps Slashdot in the long run. If you have a doubt, just create a new account, or even post anonymous -- an effective troll, posted early enough, will gain a +1 quickly.
  3. Learn from the marketing droids -- a mixture of truth and lies leaves the potential client without a clue as to which is which. Geeks smell pure bullshit, because it reminds them of their bedroom smell (see also "karma whoring" below).
  4. Follow up. Keep a window open on your troll, and reload to see if people bite. Perhaps post an AC reply agreeing or disagreeing with your own post. Reply to later posts referring to your earlier post to back up your point.
  5. If you get a dreaded (-1, Troll), don't be ashamed to post the well-known, "Mods on Crack!" rant. Explain, rationally, and not as yourself why you agree with the original post, and why it's a fair point.

How do I crapflood?
A crapflood is an (intentionally) content-free post. Here are some suggestions for the source of your crapflood -- remember to take care with repetition, odd characters, or repetition, to get past the lameness filter:

  1. your local dictionary file, e.g. /usr/share/dict/words on BSDs
  2. your local real names file, e.g. /usr/share/dict/propernames on BSDs
  3. a copy-paste part of a web page (for extra amusement, copy-paste from Slashdot itself)
  4. a UU-encoded newsgroup file
  5. some output from a lorem ipsum generator
  6. examples of your latest spams, particularly those in Korean
  7. allowing your cat to walk across the keyboard for a few minutes.

How do I widen pages?
A method is known and delivered to us by the beautiful Klerck which currently works in Internet Explorer alone. This will therefore ruin the browsing experience of by far the majority of Slashdot readers. Start with the text:

http://www.eveeieyhfgfcdoosammgwsnboivvbsczxlzgabc /

then repeat /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk /

several times, remembering to avoid the compression filter trap by using different random characters.

How do I karma whore?
"Karma whoring" is the practice of gaining moderation points for their own sake. It is particularly useful in techniques for defeating the moderation system. Some tips for karma whoring are:

  1. If the site containing the actual article is not on a fast server (i.e. is not a "big site"), re-post the article with subject, "the article -- in case the site gets slashdotted". Make sure this comes as early as possible in the list of comments, to avoid the dreaded (-1, Redundant).
  2. If any article pops up on Microsoft, write a stock two paragraphs explaining why Microsoft is immoral, and why the event described cannot happen with Free Software. I shall not supply text, because tests have shown that moderators are not completely stupid, and can identify duplicate posts (this is actually helpful in defeating the moderation system, see below).
  3. For any article discussing a particular company, state that you worked there, and offer your "inside knowledge". Note that geeks do visit Slashdot, so do not fall into the trap of being too obvious a fraud -- a mistake made by such amateur trolls as PhysicsGenius, who must now suffer a life of instant down-modding.

How do I defeat the moderation system?
The moderation system is far from flawless. Here are some ways to devalue it:

  1. If you have moderator points, for goodness sake abuse them! How about moderating up a First Post, a crapflood, or best of all, this very FAQ? It would be a crime to allow such an easily abused system to work.
  2. Copy the text of another person's post, and paste it as a reply to an earlier post. Most people read oldest messages first, so they will consider yours to be the first message, and the later message to be "redundant". This is great for annoying karma whores.
  3. Vote Troll posts as "underrated", thus increasing their exposure without running the risk of having your moderation rights revoked.

How do I defeat authentication?
Don't. The FBI will arrest you for being a terrorist. Instead, make an authoritative nick like CmdrTaco (editor). The majority of people are easily fooled, and will be likely to take notice of and respond to your post, and even moderate it up. Think of it like Lunix Turvalds walking into the room -- people listen to what he has to say, and don't dare disagree.

How do I defeat the goatse link early warning system?
Simple -- use one of the many foolishly implemented redirector URLs hosted on well-known sites. Here's an innocuous recent example which pretends to link to the highly informative about.com, but in fact links to a site of the popular 90's lesbian band The Spice Girls: Informative link which will get me karma [about.com]

What are some excellent sites to sneakily link to?
Mostly, you should link to gay porn. If you are reading this FAQ, you already know the URLs, so I don't need to supply them, except to say that it's almost an initiation ceremony in Slashdot trolling to link to goatse [goatse.cx].

Administrativa

How do I justify the existence of this FAQ?
Slashdot is full of people who support unlicensed weapons ownership and dissemination of bomb creation documents -- in short, they support freedom, even when that freedom could cause harm. This document should be considered as that very freedom in action. Indeed, to disparage or moderate down this document would be un-American, and the FBI are likely to arrest you for being a terrorist.

How do I add to or change this FAQ?
Simply re-post the FAQ on Slashdot, adding an appropriate question, and incrementing the version number by 1. Before doing so, please try to ensure you have the latest version, and remember to keep this post W3C compliant!

How else can I help with the Troll and Crapflooding Cause?
Moderate this post up, re-post it, put it in your journal, and upload it on your website. Thanks!

Re:DUPLICATE POSTING SANCTIONED ON SLASHDOT! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398358)

Mod up parent post, less redundant than article.

Re:DUPLICATE POSTING SANCTIONED ON SLASHDOT! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398401)

As an All-In-Wonder Radeon owner, just want to clear up the things the article glosses over. You can't set it to record the same show no matter what time it comes on, you can't view listings more than 7 days in advance, and unlike a Tivo, it won't record similar shows for you. This is not set-it-and-forget-it software, and people need to stop comparing it to Tivo. It's much closer to a VCR than to Tivo: you have to manually program it, and it's just not that smart. (The quality's outstanding, though.)
Abouts Review! [about.com]

Important guide from Slashdot crew (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398356)

Anal intercourse for Linux fans

Linux Buttsex HOWTO

by Anal Cocks
Version 1.0.1, 2nd June 1998

Introduction

This HOWTO explains how to perform Buttsex in the Linux Operating System w/Enterprise Resources (LOSER). This HOWTO assumes basic knowledge of general Linux operation.

Preparation
Most basically, all Linux Buttsex requires is a machine running the Linux Operating System, a penis (also referred to as a "cock" or "dick"), and a willing friend. However, you benefit greatly, especially when starting out, if you posess standard Buttsex tools.

Standard Buttsex Tools
Lubricant - Slippery stuff you smear on your johnson and your friend's manpussy, to ease the transition into Buttsex mode. Vaseline will do in a pinch, but water-based lubricants such as KY Jelly and Astroglide are preferable.

Contraception - Protective barrier between your schlong and the inside of your friend's love canal. Breeders use them to prevent pregnancy, but we queer nancies usually use them to protect ourselves from the deadly AIDS virus. While some enterprising faggots have made do with plastic wrap or masking tape, there is no substitute for a latex condom. Most all condoms will do, as long as they aren't the "extra-thin" type. Some condoms are labelled as beiong superior for Buttsex, but are not necessary.

Step One -- Prepare the Anus
This step is especially important if your friend has never taken a willie in the ass before. Prepare his anus for the width and girth of your manhood with the "finger" command. It is used like so:

% finger [insert your friend's name here]

Begin with your index or middle finger, and then both middle AND index fingers, at the same time. Ten to fifteen minutes should do. If you wish, you may felate him or suck his balls, while you're fingering him.

Step Two -- Entry
Here the fun starts. Have your friend lay prone on the bed, or even better, get down "on all fours". Optionally, place a couple pillows beneath him to make him more comfortable. Now position yourself behind him, and spread his asscheeks. Apply lubricant, generously, to both your sexrod, and his pit of pleasure. It is advisable to stick your fingers partially inside in his anus, to make sure that the entire edge of the entry is covered.

Your penis must be fully erect in order to make a sucessful entry. If you are not already "hard as a rock", you may rub your penis in his asscrack, while tweaking his nipples (or stroking his cock), and saying intimidating things, such as "I am going to make you squeal like a pig, boy. Squeal, like a pig!".

When your sexstick is sufficiently engorged with blood, it is time to begin entry. Place the head of your cock firmly against his brown anal starfish. Begin applying firm pressure forwards, optionally using your hand to guide your dick on a true course into sodomy. Your friend is most likely moaning in agony or yelping, and you may either ignore this, or in a snide tone, say "You like that, bitch?".

When your penis is in, move on to the next step.

Step Three -- Hardcore Assramming
This is fairly simple. Move your dick around in his ass, towards and then back, at varying speeds. If for some reason your dick pops out, put in back in, undaunted. Continue pumping and thrusting until you feel you are ready to move on to Step Four.

Step Four -- Orgasm
When ready to blow your load, use this command:

% stdout > ass

This redirects your standard output stream into your friend's pink tunnel of shit. Enter the command, then with one final thrust, placing the entire length of your cock inside his body. Your penis will then eject about a quart of sticky white semen, accompanied by tremendous pleasure.

Step Five -- Cleanup
If you wore a condom, cleanup is simple. Remove the condom and toss it out your window. Then sop up any other jizz, anal juice, excrement, or lubricant with Brawny(R) brand paper towels.

If you did not wear a condom, your friend will have a steady drip of cum out of his ass for the next few hours. Tell him to "buck up" and stuff some toilet paper in his underwear.

Afterward

Congratulations! You are now a l337 LUN1X 4$$r4mm3r, just like Linux Toreballs and his gay minions! Celebrate by masturbating to the sensual gay erotica found at http://www.goatse.cx/ [goatse.cx]

.

Linux Drivers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398362)

But what can linux do with it?

Seriously, I'm hesitant to upgrade if I can't make full use of it's capabilities. Anyone know of a good source of info on drivers, for all the whiz-bang features?

Hi! I'm the one who trolled your journal! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398365)

Things to do list:

1. Rent movie about mean headmaster spanking bare bottoms of naughty boys at private Britain school.

2. See doctor. Get arm up ass surgically removed.

Re:Hi! I'm the one who trolled your journal! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398386)

Hi! I'm the Trolling FAQ Troll! It may or may not come as a surprise to you that I went to a "private Britain school", and I'd like to confirm the allegation that it is full of repressed homosexual teachers and boys sleeping together in large dormitories ("dorms").

In particular, one of the gayest teachers lived in a caravan (yes!) on site (it was a pretty BIG site, mind you), and another (also the Chaplain) would say such re-quotable things as, "Today, we're going to talk about.. masturbation," under the guise of a "Christian ethics" class.

I'd type more, but I can't be bothered.

Re:Hi! I'm the one who trolled your journal! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398427)

Please tell me more when you have the time. My journal entry is here [slashdot.org]

Don't buy it! Drivers STINK (5, Informative)

steppin_razor_LA (236684) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398375)

I am the "proud" owner of a Radeon All In Wonder. I dropped close to $300 on the card. I bought it hoping to set up a home theatre PC. I was looking forward to experimenting with broadcasting the video via 802.11 to the downstairs office so that my GF could watch while working.. etc.

ATI totally caved to Microsoft and only supports their "latest" video capture API (DirectShow). Well guess what even though DirectShow has been out for a long time, there doesn't seem to be a lot of support for it -- even from Microsoft. So if you want to use NetMeeting or Windows Media Server or Real Server -- you can go suck an egg.

The video capture software they bundle it seems to capture into a proprietary MPEG2 format that doesn't play on other computers. If you want to share something you captured, you need to re-encode it.

There are third party applicaitons available -- I think that FlashMPEG can do capture for it now.

All in all, I am *REALLY* disappointed with the card. The hardware seems fine, but the software & support just blow.

Re:Don't buy it! Drivers STINK (4, Funny)

bonzoesc (155812) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398479)

What, ATI's annual driver release not good? Say it isn't so!

...

Wait a second, this is ATI we're talking about. They're even worse than Creative with drivers, I swear. There was a time when I had to switch between three sets of ATI drivers for Half-Life, UT, and Quake 3, each switch requiring two 3-minute reboots in Windows 98.

The only way to use the TV functions on any ATI card is with an external program. I recommend DScaler [sourceforge.net], which does some fancy processing to the signal to make it look good enough to eat (unless it's squid day on Iron Chef).

virtualdub (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398490)

Ever hear of virtualdub? Its the best video capturing software there is. The linux commies should enjoy it because its also open source. For viewing mpeg2 find some program called sthsdvd, it was written by some chinese guy but its free of bullshit and works great.

Re:Don't buy it! Drivers STINK (1)

seann (307009) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398580)

You blatently missed the "Custom" capture setting that you can, "customeize".

This is not a troll.

Try capturing to stright DivX or some jazzy jeff alternative.

get a second tv... (2)

SethJohnson (112166) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398626)



Hey. Sometimes the technical daredevil solution is not the best one. I'm speaking from the position of someone who has spent countless hours and weekends on projects like the one you attempted to provide some video (porn?) over your home network for your 'GF' (Gay Friend?).

Granted, your ambitions may have been cheated by ATI's laziness in leveraging some half-assed package provided my microsoft. But even if it had worked, do you really need your computer AND your girlfriend's computer wasting CPU cycles on encoding and decoding video files and tying up your home network with all that data? The lowtech approach of running coax or whatever in parallel with your ethernet cables and plugging it into a seperate TV set might be a more reliable and easier-to-implement solution.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not mocking your project. It just echoes some of the technological boondoggles I've sucked myself into.

How is the Linux support? (5, Insightful)

j09824 (572485) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398400)

Are all the features available from Linux? Are the drivers open source, or are they semi-closed, like nVidia's? How good is OpenGL performance on Linux?

Re:How is the Linux support? (2, Informative)

fwankypoo (58987) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398520)

I'm not sure how much suppor there is for the video capture features of the card under Linux right now. However, ATI releases all the specs to their cards so that people like the DRI project can develop drivers for them (which is much cooler IMHO than NVidia's closed drivers). So, while it may take longer for the drivers to mature, they will most likely be free software.

A little off your question...
I've seen a few people complaining about their AIW Radeon's, etc. I just have to say that (owning an AIW 7500) the drivers are much more mature than what they talk about. I've had no problems using the capture functions, no problems with any game (D3D or OpenGL) and it DOES encode to non-proprietary formats (MPEG2, AVI, etc) to allow for editing w/out conversion.

The quality is fantastic (I can't wait till I get somewhere where I have reception). I recommend getting one of these card if TV+good 3D acceleration is your bag.

Re:How is the Linux support? (2, Informative)

eimaj (35726) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398525)

Unfortunately there is no OpenGL support [sourceforge.net] for the 8500 under Linux.

I was disappointed that ATI doesn't appear to be willing to fund 8500 development through Tungsten Graphics [tungstengraphics.com] like they did a few years ago [rageunderground.com] (when TG was called Precision Insight).

I was just in the market to buy and new card, and as much as I wanted an ATI, I ended up buying a GeForce3. I don't like that NVidia's stuff is a closed binary implementation, but at least they take the Linux market seriously enough to support it.

Re:How is the Linux support? (2, Informative)

eimaj (35726) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398542)

I just remembered, it is possible to buy [xig.com] OpenGL support for the 8500, but the driver costs as much as my GeForce3 did. :P

"competitive" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398402)

meaning your frame rate will suck with the latest games.

Review written by a student. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398406)

Start paragraph with declarative sentence of the subject of said paragraph. Add filler. End paragraph with summary of paragraph. Repeat. And repeat and repeat and repeat.

Glad THEY aren't charging a subscription.

300 mhz DDR? (0, Redundant)

doubtless (267357) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398411)

Powered by a 240MHz. Radeon 8500 GPU and 190MHz. DDR RAM (380MHz.), the 8500DV proved to be both a well-rounded, and well-endowed, graphics and video solution

I wonder why the post says 300MHz DDR RAM.. another editing mistake?

Abouts Review (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398421)

http://pediatrics.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm ?site=http://www.guysex.com">Abouts Review

Includes some info on its Linux Support!

Useful in X? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398425)

Is this sort of hardware useful to someone using Linux and X Window System?
Or is this primarily something for hardcore MS Windows gamers?

I suspect that unless you use Windows and play a lot of computer games, this
video hardware would not be too useful. It seems overkill for X, where a plain
old MGA based 2D card is primo for speed and clarity. Very few 3D cards look
good under X. And they get hot enough to fry bacon. I don't see the point in adding
all that extra heat to the inside of your case unless you are going to make good
use of it.

Abouts Review! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398433)

Abouts Review

Includes info on its GNU/Linux Support!
(Summary)
OGL Works under Linux
Only support DirectShow (M$), so no capture in GNU/Linux.

Ads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398450)

If I subscribe to Slashdot will I be able to filter these advertisement stories?

Port all the ATI apps to linux ... (1)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398452)

... and give me linux drivers and I'd buy one. I'd keep my nVidia(s) around, in the same case, for games though. The video editing would be nice and worth the cash.

Trade-In Program (2, Informative)

jimmcq (88033) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398455)

You can get up to $150 off a All-In-Wonder Radeon 8500 128MB AGP through ATI's Trade-Up Program [ati.com].

Basically if you order the card through them you get an instant $50 rebate... Then when you send in an old ATI card or even a different brand of graphic card, they will send you a $100 rebate.

Helvetian Military Sword (1)

distributed.karma (566687) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398469)

Somehow 'Swiss Army Knife' sounds a bit mundane these days. And we all know that 'Swiss Army Chainsaw' already exists and has more blades than Larry Wall can count. Therefore, I propose the term SwissCard for this beauty. (Something under that name is already being made by Victorinox, but I rest assured none of the /.ers care about IP SchmIP issues.)

Please stop posting minor product announcements as (1, Redundant)

captaineo (87164) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398477)

Slashdot editors - Please stop posting minor product announcements as news items. There are lots of other sites that do a better job of covering this kind of thing. Please keep it to "Stuff that matters."

What about a Digital broadcast TV Tuner? (1)

BenJeremy (181303) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398478)

Man, I'm getting a bit sick of waiting on ATI... the AIW Radion 8500 is the same as my original All-in-Wonder from 1996 with a new graphics chip plugged in.

ATI promised DTV a couple of years ago and has yet to deliver on the promise. Why deal with flaky drivers and questionable benchmark tactics when I can just get a TV wonder that does EVERYTHING the AIW adds and have the FREEDOM of selecting whatever graphics powerhouse card I want?

Meanwhile, NVidia has pretty much caught up to ATI in the All-In-Wonder type packaging with the Personal Cinema-based cards and fluid VIVO support. With an external tuner, NVidia can even potentially deliver DTV as a retro-fit.

Ugh. ATI disappointed me way too many times for me to ever get excited about their products again. Sadly, my first ever PC video card was an ATI EGA Wonder in 1988 (hooked up to a Mono TTL monitor simulating EGA with 16 shades of grey)... I still have it in a doorstop somewhere around here.

I forgot to mention MPEG2 in hardware!! (1)

BenJeremy (181303) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398512)

Another nice feature would be a GOOD MPEG2 *ENCODER* in hardware, available for video in encoding AND firewire encoding as well. Not software, and not quarter frame - full 720x480 30fps encoding at high quality for seamless editing. This is what I REALLY need for a complete home video suite.

My current set up consists of a 60gb 7200rpm drive (data), 30gb drive (OS and software), TV Wonder for basic VIVO and PVR fucntionality, Firewire card for my Digital8 camcorder, 20in monitor (ancient Nanao Flexscan), and a DVD-ROM drive running on a 1ghz P3 with 512MB RAM. The addition of a good MPEG2 encoder that can handle real-time capture of the DV stream into full-frame MPEG2 would be perfect.

Re:What about a Digital broadcast TV Tuner? (3, Insightful)

-tji (139690) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398561)

I agree.. This NTSC tuner merits a big yawn for me.

DTV makes more sense for PVR functions. The data is already compressed digital. All you have to do it save it to disk. And, the quality is leaps and bounds better than our 50 year old NTSC standard.

It's about time they got on board with DTV. I would be the first in line to buy one.

Is the resolution limited to 800x600 for AIW? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3398484)

I know the 64 meg version of 8500 aiw was limited to 800x600 while you could get 1024x768 with the 64 meg aiw 7500(while using both tv and monitor). I tried the 7500 aiw, but was dissapointed with the display when watching dvd's on my 17".

I'm thinking about matrox's g450 dual head, as I can run this [directfb.org], while I cannot do so with the latest ati radeon.

So what happens with 64MB? (3, Interesting)

erroneus (253617) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398488)

Okay maybe I'll get modded down -2 fricken-moron for this...

...but what is wrong with the 64MB version? Does it go into swap space or something?

Re:So what happens with 64MB? (1)

Wordplay (54438) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398637)

In the sense that it'll use your system memory via AGP, pretty much. Performance-wise, it's pretty analogous to going to HD swap from system RAM, though not quite as drastic of a performance difference.

Geo

doody list (1)

jchristopher (198929) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398506)

I've still never forgiven ATI for not bothering to write drivers for Windows 2000 that supported dual display for their Rage Pro/Mobility series of cards, thus stranding thousands of folks with laptops with ATI video built in.

ATI says it's Microsoft's fault (yet somehow Nvidia figured it out).

This is a great feature, especially for laptops, since you can run PowerPoint on one screen and your notes on the other.

ATI seems to have a nice history of never/rarely providing driver updates once they release a new chipset. This is incredibly dumb - the Rage Mobility M1 is still used in brand new, shipping systems, yet the drivers for Windows 2000 are like 18 months old, feature-wise!

Thus, they make my "never buy again" doody-list. Next laptop will have Nvidia.

Why I don't buy ATI (1)

The Pi-Guy (529892) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398517)

HEH. Long story, but I'll make it short.

4 years ago, I was buying a "new" PC. Given the choice between the less expensive nVidia and the more expensive ATI, I stuck with the brand I had heard of (never heard of nVidia before) and went with the ATI. Wrong choice. It was an ATI Rage 64 or something, I forget, Rage LT PRO, I think it was. There was NO hardware 3D OGL acceleration, and minimal D3D. Out rolled a new DX release, and out rolls a buggy as hell uncertified driver. It took them like 10 releases to get it right, and they still didn't have hardware support. Under Linux, the situation was somewhat better - the opensource drivers used acceleration, and I got a lot better frame rates. But it would lock all IO on the box until I telnetted in and chvt'd on occasion - and sometimes it wouldn't even let me telnet!

So the point I'm trying to make is, for your own good, don't buy it. Not flamebait, but just wait until you see the EXACT CARD in the EXACT BOX you're getting running the EXACT SOFTWARE you're gonna run. For your own sake.

--joshua

ATI? Yuck. (3, Informative)

topham (32406) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398544)

Aside from it taking me 3 months to get my ATI card working as it SHOULD...

(All-in-Wonder Rage 128) I finally can get the TV-tuner working and watch TV while I use dual monitors.

Never did figure out HOW I GOT IT WORKING.
(This under Win2K)

ATI drivers *SUCK*. Their DVD support SUCKS (I have a standalone MPEG2 decoder card, I've had it since I was using a Pentium 166, it has always played DVDs flawlessly.) On my Pentium III ATI's DVD support glitches now and then.

I was better off under W95 with my Pentium 166, & creative Labs decoder.

I will not consider an ATI card again until they improve their driver support and pull their head out of their ass. (Mpeg2 encoding should be done in hardware, it takes a Pentium III to do it in software, and you can't do much else...)

Better comparison... (1)

McVeigh (145742) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398569)

is available at Anandtech here [anandtech.com] it compares the AIW 8500DV (with gets the editors choice award)it also has similar offerings from Matrox and Nividia, if you want to see whats out there.

TV Out Quality? (1)

wahay (12517) | more than 11 years ago | (#3398663)

I'm looking for a card with decent TV out. I want to watch all this cool video I've encoded on a real TV where the women in my life won't complain. Has anyone seen any sort of review coverage of the quality of TV outs on cards like the 8500 (or some nice Geforce?). I know the sharpness will never be great, but if geometry (trapezoid, pincushion) and scaling (overscan!) can work, that would be good enough for me.
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