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Spyware Fights Back

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the building-a-death-star dept.

News 680

sparcv9 writes "According to the latest issue of Spyware Weekly, the Radlight media player not only searches your hard drive for Adaware, but will uninstall it if found. How do they attempt to legitimize this? By including a clause in their EULA that reads: 'You are not allowed to use any third party program (e.g Ad-aware) to uninstall application bundled with RadLight. Such programs will be removed. If you want to uninstall them, you may do so via Add/Remove in Windows' Control Panel.' Yes, that's right. Not only do they say you are not allowed to use Adaware to remove their bundled apps, but they will forcibly remove Adaware for you to make sure you don't!" There's also a Newsbytes story.

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i love you (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403777)

see you later

i love spyware



Number One (-1)

L0rdkariya (562469) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403783)

That's right.

Props to all logged-in trolls.

Re:Number One (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403835)

Number 2. Mine is number one. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

Do you like oatmeal?

We're ok... (-1)

L0rdkariya (562469) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403943)

As long as it wasn't some filthy AC who got the FP.

le tigre (-1)

K0R$ h4x0r ru1z (533828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403785)

I'm out of time. . .

I'm outta fucking time. . .

Deceptacon (-1)

Jingle Returno (531353) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403939)

  1. Every day and night
    Every day and night
    I can see yr disco disco dik is sucking my heart out of my mind
    I'm outta time, I'm outta fuckin time
    I'm a gasoline gut with a vaseline mind but
    Wanna disco? Wanna see me disco?
    Let me hear you depoliticize my rhyme
    One, two, three, four
    You got what you been asking for
    yr so policy free and yr fantasy wheels and everything you think
    and everything you feel is alright, it's alright, it's alright, it's alright, it's alright

    I take you home now watch me get you hot
    Yr just a parrot when yr screaming and yr shouting
    "More crackers please, more crackers please"
    You want what you want but you don't wanna be on yr knees
    Who does your... who does your hair?

    Who took the Bomp from the Bompalompalomp?
    Who took the Ram from the Ramalamading dong?
    Who took the Bomp from the Bompalompalomp?
    Who took the Ram from the Ramalamading dong?

    You bought a new van the first year of yr band
    Yr cool and I hardly wanna say "not" because I'm so bored
    that I'd be entertained even by a stupid fuckin linoleum floor, linoleum floor
    Yr lyrics are dumb like a linoleum floor
    I'll walk on it
    I'll walk all over you
    Walk on it, walk on it, walking one, two/ Who? Who? Who? Who?

    Who took the Bomp from the Bompalompalomp?
    Who took the Ram from the Ramalamading dong?
    Who took the Bomp from the Bompalompalomp?
    Who took the Ram from the Ramalamading dong?

blah (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403787)


hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403797)

is this legal?

FP! (-1, Offtopic)

Jacer (574383) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403798)

my first, first post hmmmm, i suppose i should go to work, rather than trying to post first

Work? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403812)

Fuck that, fp's are a much more productive use of your time.

this is not legal (5, Insightful)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403803)

and because they mention it in the EULA doesn't mean it's legal. Anyway, it's not like this player will be actually downloaded much.

Re:this is not legal (1)

crazyprogrammer (412543) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403850)

Anyway, it's not like this player will be actually downloaded much

Especially when their site gets ./ed.

Re:this is not legal (3, Insightful)

BLAMM! (301082) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403910)

Hell, no, it's not legal. It's pretty damn arrogant, though!

Re:this is not legal (1)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403996)

I want to know who the programmer is that is unethical enough to write shit like this.

Re:this is not legal (5, Funny)

darkonc (47285) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403917)

I'm gonna have to write a piece of software where the EULA includes the phrasing:

By downloading and using this program, I agree to give to the author, on demand, my entire computer system -- including software, licenses for said software and all data contained on said computer. Should licensee decline to abide for the agreement, the licensee will, in addition to the computer system mentioned above, be required to pay legal fees............

Re:this is not legal (4, Informative)

joebp (528430) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403925)

Anyway, it's not like this player will be actually downloaded much.
Quoting the article:

"over 750,000 copies of RadLight had been downloaded from CNET as of February 2002."

Re:this is not legal (2)

handorf (29768) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403937)

According to the article, it was download from Download.COM > 750K times before they took it off the site.

Re:this is not legal (2, Insightful)

mobydobius (237311) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403965)

and because they mention it in the EULA doesn't mean it's legal. Anyway, it's not like this player will be actually downloaded much.

Hmm... I definitely agree that this practice is underhanded, unethical, and plain rude, but why do you say it is illegal?

Is there anything on the books that infers that existing software can not be deleted by new software? If so, how does that work when a new piece of software needs to replace a common shared library, and that new shared library makes existing software unworkable?

If the user was warned (and a EULA is at minimum a warning), does he really have any legal recourse?

Re-elect Al Gore #@ +1 ; Patriotic @# (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3404020)

My complaint about George W Bush Over the past few weeks, I've learned to look past George W Bush's clueless, twisted inclinations. I've learned to look past some of the sappy things Bush has said. I've even learned to look past his attempts to promote a culture of dependency and failure. But I cannot stay silent about Bush's incomprehensible and unforgivable audacity regarding a specific event that recently occurred. Let's get down to brass tacks: The more pressing news is that most of us are now painfully aware of Bush's improvident claims. Of that I am certain, because I am aware that many people may object to the severity of my language. But is there no cause for severity? Naturally, I maintain that there is, because we must provide an antidote to contemporary manifestations of biased totalitarianism. As mentioned above, however, that is not enough. It is necessary to do more. It is necessary to investigate Bush's prurient principles, ideals, and objectives. But I digress. It's not uncommon for Bush to speak with authority on subjects he clearly knows nothing about. Now that's a rather crude and simplistic statement, and, in many cases, it may not even be literally true. But there is a sense in which it is generally true, a sense in which it indisputably expresses how I want to thank Bush for his ruses. They give me an excellent opportunity to illustrate just how bloodthirsty Bush can be. He wants us to believe that we can solve all of our problems by giving him lots of money. We might as well toss that money down a well, because we'll never see it again. What we will see, however, is that Bush thinks we want him to use scapegoating as a foil to draw anger away from more accurate targets. Excuse me, but maybe there are few certainties in life. I have counted only three: death, taxes, and Bush doing some irresponsible thing every few weeks. Bush has, on a number of occasions, expressed a desire to prosecute, sentence, and label people as frightful geeks without the benefit of any evidence whatsoever. On all of these occasions, I submitted to the advice of my friends, who assured me that he coins polysyllabic neologisms to make his philippics sound like they're actually important. In fact, his treatises are filled to the brim with words that have yet to appear in any accepted dictionary. It requires surprisingly little imagination to envision a future in which he is free to solve all our problems by talking them to death. What are the lessons for us in this? First, it's that grotesque crybabies demand the advantages other people have earned without the disadvantages, like having to earn them. And second, he says he's going to offer hatred with an intellectual gloss sooner or later. Is he out of his negligent mind? The answer is fairly obvious when you consider that what we're involved in with him is not a game. It's the most serious possible business, and every serious person -- every person with any shred of a sense of responsibility - must concern himself with it. Let's just ignore Bush and see what he does. Those of you who thought that he was finally going to leave us alone are in for a big surprise, because he recently announced his plans to quote me out of context. There is a problem here. A very large, uncouth, fork-tongued problem. Bush's crusades represent a backward step of hundreds of years, a backward step into a chasm with no bottom save the endless darkness of death. There are some simple truths in this world. First, inconsiderate worrywarts, motivated by either barbarism or a desire to lead a pugnacious life, are eager to help Bush contravene decency. Second, his deeds run on pure irony. And finally, he ignores a breathtaking number of facts, most notably: Fact: His warnings are sheer idiocy. Fact: It is not my goal to distract people from serious analysis of the situation, but the opposite. Fact: He has made some imprecise statements and statements that ought to have had all sorts of qualifications and reservations attached to them. In addition, he presents himself as a disinterested classicist lamenting the infusion of politically motivated methods of pedagogy and analysis into higher education. Bush is eloquent in his denunciation of modern scholarship, claiming it favors puerile recidivists. And here we have the ultimate irony, because by refusing to act, by refusing to break the neck of Bush's policy of opportunism once and for all, we are giving Bush the power to make our country spiritually blind. Although this has been overlooked or ignored by the established scientific community, Bush's pronouncements are not pedantic treatises expressing theories or extravaganzas dealing in fables or fancies. They are substantial, sober outpourings from the very soul of factionalism. If the past is any indication of the future, Bush will once again attempt to consign most of us to the role of his servants or slaves. I have a dream that my children will be able to live in a world filled with open spaces and beautiful wilderness -- not in a dark, vainglorious world run by what I call dissolute finks. Bush frequently avers his support of democracy and his love of freedom. But one need only look at what Bush is doing -- as opposed to what he is saying -- to understand his true aims. I don't know what his problem is, but I overheard one of Bush's functionaries say, Bush never engages in grungy, flagitious, or daft politics. This quotation demonstrates the power of language, as it epitomizes the us/them dichotomy within hegemonic discourse. As for me, I prefer to use language to empower the oppressed to control their own lives. Conventional wisdom states that this letter is written with the hope that readers will think for a minute about the situation at hand. Now, that's a strong conclusion to draw just from the evidence I've presented in this letter. So let me corroborate it by saying that it is more than a purely historical question to ask, How did Bush's reign of terror start? or even the more urgent question, How might it end?. No, we must ask, Is it really Bush's impression that the purpose of life is self-gratification? There aren't enough hours in the day to fully answer that question, but consider this: Bush's lackeys all look like Bush, think like Bush, act like Bush, and threaten, degrade, poison, bulldoze, and kill this world of ours, just like Bush does. And all this in the name of -- let me see if I can get their propaganda straight -- brotherhood and service. Ha! Bush wants to change this country's moral infrastructure. You know what groups have historically wanted to do the same thing? Fascists and Nazis. We can say that this view dangerously underestimates the snivelling quality of areerism, and he can claim the opposite, and it won't make one bit of difference. I could accuse him of using the most yellow-bellied prevaricators I've ever seen to get his way, but I wouldn't stoop to that level. When I first heard about Bush's sermons, I didn't know whether to laugh, because Bush's pleas are so horny, or cry, because Bush is trying to brainwash us. He wants us to believe that it's paltry to make this world a better place in which to live; that's boring; that's not cool. You know what I think of that, don't you? I think that we must reach out to people with the message that the crux of the issue is that Bush is a bad role model for children. We must alert people of that. We must educate them. We must inspire them. And we must encourage them to set the record straight. The real question here is not, Why can't he value a diversity of approaches without needing to rank them as better and worse?. The real question is rather, What exactly is the principle that rationalizes his power-drunk, obstinate ventures? No, don't guess; this isn't audience participation day. I'll just tell you. But before I do, you should note that I wonder if he really believes the things he says. He knows they're not true, doesn't he? I'll tell you what I think the answer is. I can't prove it, but if I'm correct, events soon will prove me right. I think that he is a mythmaker, an illusion builder, or to put it less politely, a trickster. Excuse me; that's not entirely correct. What I meant to say is that many people are incredulous when I tell them that Bush intends to bask in the unenlightened shine of corporatism. How could Bush be so destructive?, they ask me. It doesn't seem possible. Well, it is truly possible, and now I'll explain exactly how Bush plans to do it. But first, you need to realize that this is kind of a touchy subject to some people. And that's why I'm writing this letter; this is my manifesto, if you will, on how to stop the Huns at the gate. There's no way I can do that alone, and there's no way I can do it without first stating that it's unfortunate that he has no real education. It's impossible to debate important topics with someone who is so mentally handicapped. I'm sure you get my point here. What's more, Bush claims that things have never been better. That claim is preposterous and, to use Bush's own language, overtly recalcitrant. No history can justify it. How on earth these Huns can think of themselves as anything but dotty spivs is beyond me. I would like to put forth the possibility that just because he and his missaries don't like being labelled as morally crippled pothouse drunks or brain-damaged hackers doesn't mean the shoe doesn't fit. Yes, Virginia, Bush contends that he can walk on water. Sounds rather hypocritical, doesn't it? Well, that's Bush for you. Others have stated it much more eloquently than I, but his anecdotes always follow the same pattern. He puts the desired twist on the actual facts, ignores inconvenient facts, and invents as many new facts as necessary to convince us that he holds a universal license that allows him to take away our sense of community and leave us morally adrift. Bush's epithets cannot stand on their own merit. That's why they're dependent on elaborate artifices and explanatory stories to convince us that obscurantism is the key to world peace. To borrow the immortal words of a certain, well-known authority figure, Bush's comrades amount to nothing more than dour libertines riding on the back of a social fungus attacking the body politic. I challenge Bush to point out any text in this letter that proposes that we should abandon the institutionalized and revered concept of democracy. It isn't there. There's neither a hint nor a suggestion of such a thing. The only way out of George W Bush's rat maze is to make some changes here. It's that simple.

Tenchi (-1, Offtopic)

controll (575806) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403804)

ïDisclaimer: I do not own the characters used in my favorite cartoon, I simply use them as the thread in the golden fleece of my imagination... Snow: Chapter 2 Marlon Laughed at Nicholies demands... âoeHeh, now you listen to me white boy..... I am the one who gives orders around here. This is MY world, these are MY rules, and these are MY crack whores! Heh, hehâ? Marlon belched. Nicholies men pointed their guns at Marlon. Nicholie got up close to Marlons face and whispered something to him. âoeNow you listen to me negro.... Zis little shit whole you call a house may be your world.... But Mother Russia my mine...â? Said Nicholie in a soft yet threatening voice. Nicholies guard shot Marlon in the foot. âoeAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!â? Marlon squealed in pain. Marlons whores ran in every direction. Usually, at the sound of gunfire, one of Marlons guards would have burst through the door with a weapon. But in this case, they thought that the gunfire was probably Marlon shooting one of the visitors. Besides, his men were all fat and lazy and really didn't give a shit as to what happened so long as they get paid their usual high salary and free whores. âoeYOU FUCKING BASTARD!!!â? Shouted Marlon. Blood was all over the floor... Marlon held his foot tightly with his hands. It would be impossible for him to see a doctor... He was wanted in most parts of Russia for distributing and buying drugs of almost every kind.. Nicholie signaled for one of his men to hand him a white glove. It was one of those medical latex gloves used in hospitals. Those gloves came in handy for the Mafia; always needing to hide things and cover murders and evidence up. Nicholie snapped the glove on tightly. Marlon kept screeming. Nicole smiled. âoeSo, how âbout it to show me vere zis girl is?â? âoeFUCK YOU!!!â? Shouted Marlon. Nicholie shook his head. âoeTs, ts, ts,.... zats too bad for you,â? said Nicholie... âoeYou have disappointed me....â? Nicholie swiftly stuck two fingers into Marlons wound with the glove he put on. âoeAAAAHHHHHHH OH GOD! OH GOD! AHHHH!!!â? Marlon screamed in agony. Nicholie pulled his fingers out. âoeWell?â? Nicholie asked as he held up the same two fingers which now were saturated in blood. âoeFINE!!!â? shouted Marlon. âoeItâ(TM)s right through that door...â? said one of his whores. âoeBoris, Ghelhc, you two vatch ze negro... me and Washu vill go and talk to ze girl.â? Nicholies men nodded their heads. Washu had her eyes and ears shut the entire time during the âincidentâ(TM). Washu bent towards Nicholie. âoeNicholie... What the hell are you doing!?â? Said a frustrated Washu. âoeI did everything zat vas necessary.â? Nicholie and Washu proceeded through the door way and were appalled at what they saw. Little girls ages 11-17 chained up against the wall. They were prisoners. Literally prostitutes but still prisoners. Non of them responded. People come in there all the time. Mostly men, men who want a girl to take home for the night. Or in some cases.....forever. Washu put her hand over her mouth. Her eyes were wide open with shock. âoeNicholie! What are these poor little girls doin chained up to the wall like that!!?â? She asked in a startled tone. âoeCalm down Washu. Zey are prostitutes, you know.. mere rats of society...â? Nicholie looked at Washu with a half smile on his face. âoeYour amazement is amusing to me, please excuse me if I smile...â? Washu grabbed Nicholie by his suit collar and brought herself eye to eye with him. âoeNow you listen to me! I dont care if there prostitutes, I donâ(TM)t even fucking care if they are Demons! No child deserves to be treated like this.!â? Said Washu with authority. Nicholie sighed at Washus nagging. âoeVich one of you is Arina?â? He said... He looked at all the faces... They were all the most beautiful girls in the world. Apparently Marlon kills the girls if they are not beautiful by the age of 11, leaving the most beautiful of girls for his âoecollectionâ?. Some were naked, some partially nude. All of them were sad, and no one spoke at Nicholies words. Washu said something.. âoePlease... I promise I will get you all out of here but you just have to cooperate with us for the time being,â? she said. After Washu said this one of the girls looked up. Washu looked at her with loving eyes. She examined her body. She was the most beautiful of all the girls. Her hair was shining gold, Her eyes were grayish blue. She had the body of a goddess, and yet, there she was... a prostitute for an ugly scar faced pimp named Marlon.. Who in Washuâ(TM)s mind was gonna pay for what heâ(TM)d done. The girl wore an extremely short skirt barely covering her butt. Her tank top was white, and low cut showing a great deal of cleavage. Although young, she was very grown up. But that's the way that Marlon likes them... The little girl cleared her throat. She never talked much. She never needed too. âoeUm.......I, Arina....â? She said with a voice so delicate and sweet, that Washu almost melted. Washu walked over to her. The girl wouldnâ(TM)t have spoken if she didnâ(TM)t think Washu was going to try and take her home and rape and abuse her... like all the others do. âoeSweety, weâ(TM)re gonna get you outta here....â? The girl looked down. She didnâ(TM)t believe Washu. There wasnâ(TM)t a man rich enough in Russia, who could afford Marlons price. The little girl half smiled. Then Nicholie approached her. âoeHello, Arina...I am Nicholie Hel...â? Nicholie did his best to try and be friendly. But he sounded too much like one of the men that take her home. He fit the description too. âoeYou are like all the others... All the others who want me to bounce on their laps!â? The little girl backed away. âoeI just need to ask you a few questions...â? The little girl seemed a little more comfortable with him around as long as Washu was there. Nicholie asked the girl the questions he needed to find out about Karkaroff. Washu walked around the room and explored. Fortunately the girls in the room all spoke English. Marlon was American... So he raised them to speak English, some of them even had a little bit of a gangster street accent; the way Marlon spoke. Washu could hear something in the distance... She heard it coming from the other side of the wall she was next too. She walked towards the wall. A 15 year old girl with Light brown hair and green eyes got in front of her. âoePlease mam... donâ(TM)t bother going over there... Its nothing..â? She said. The sound became louder... It was clear to Washu what the sound was without her even having to take a step closer. Some guy was having sex in the next room. But the voice wasnâ(TM)t an adult voice..... Washuâ(TM)s face turned red.... She grabbed one of Nicholies guns... âoeMiss nooooo!!!!!!â? screamed the girl in a desperate attempt to stop her. Washu shot the wall and the old wall collapsed. A grown man was on top of a little girl and was continually humping her. Washu pointed the gun at the man, whos length was still inside the teary eyed girl. She looked around the room and found girls that were next, chained against the wall. They all had tears in their eyes. âoePut your fucking hands up you bastard!! and step away from the girl!!â? Washu shouted. The naked and very fat man put his hands up and slowly pulled out of the girl. The man was yelling at Washu in Russian, trying to tell her that he paid fair and square for this little girl, and the rest to come after her. Nicholie ran into the next room and took the gun away from Washu... âoeIf you EVER! Do somezing like zat again! You vill be puinished!!!!â? Nicholie screamed at her. âoeBut Nicholie!â? âoeWashu zings are different out here, you must understand zat!â? âoeI understand one thing! That is that I will not stand for this. Iâ(TM)m taking Arina back home to Japan with me. She will be my new daughter.â?

Re:Tenchi (0, Offtopic)

dirvish (574948) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403907)

Not only is this off topic it is not wrapping in my browser. How annoying.

I cant wait..... (4, Interesting)

diorio (244324) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403805) see how adaware will fight back on this....what a vicous cycle!

Re:I cant wait..... (3, Interesting)

timothy_m_smith (222047) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403994)

I also wonder if the anti-virus companies will start to consider features like what ad-aware provides. Many big corporations have products like Norton Anti-virus and they may want their systems protected from more than just viruses. In fact, some of these spyware products could be more of a pain than some of the viruses out there. I know that my companies sys admins have said that they are seeing significant network bandwidth getting consumed by spyware.

Re Spyware fights back (3, Interesting)

peddrenth (575761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403810)

Looks like we need Radlight-Lite (c.f. Kazza!)

Or Winamp of course. I've never even heard of RadLight

Re:Re Spyware fights back (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403914)

Looks like we need Radlight-Lite (c.f. Kazza!)

Or Winamp of course. I've never even heard of RadLight

Last time I looked, winamp couldn't play divx.

Does this surprise anyone?? (3, Insightful)

Zspdude (531908) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403825)

Spyware will do what is necessary for it to be effective. Kind of a non-story this, because I wouldn't expect anything else from spyware... Of course it's going to disable things that can find and remove it!

Re:Does this surprise anyone?? (2)

TheTomcat (53158) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403938)

Seriously. It's not like they're going to hold back on something like this because "it's unethical"


Re:Does this surprise anyone?? (2)

Dephex Twin (416238) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404012)

Seriously. It's not like they're going to hold back on something like this because "it's unethical"

Definitely not. They might do it because it's illegal though (which it may well be... we'll see).


What about installing Adaware afterwards? (2)

zorba1 (149815) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403826)

Can't users who want Radlight install Adaware afterwards? The story mentions Radlight checks for and uninstalls Adaware files on its first run. I assume it doesn't do the check everytime it runs - if so, isn't a post-install an easy workaround?

Re:What about installing Adaware afterwards? (2)

xkenny13 (309849) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403862)

  • I assume it doesn't do the check everytime it runs - if so, isn't a post-install an easy workaround?
At least, until the next version of RadLight comes out...

Re:What about installing Adaware afterwards? (5, Informative)

mriker (571666) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403889)

Ad-Aware has released a new version that will prevent RadLight from effecting it. Of course, that's obviously not the point here.

Re:What about installing Adaware afterwards? (1)

Rebel Patriot (540101) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403913)

Can't users who want Radlight install Adaware afterwards?

Straight from the article you didn't read:

Akerlund said Ad-Aware users who have had their program deleted by RadLight must re-install Ad-Aware to restore functionality.

Re:What about installing Adaware afterwards? (1)

Atlantix (209245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404037)

Well of course you can install Adaware after Radlight to remove it's spyware. The point is that Radlight doesn't have the authority to decide what you can and cannot run on your computer. If I'm a plumber and you invite me into your house to fix your faucet but I also remove your security system, telling you that the workaround is to install a new one if you really want one doesn't even begin to justify my action. If I install a security system first, the implication is that I want it there. If I install Adaware first, the implication is that I don't want spyware. Don't go defending this company's malicious actions. They're abhorant.


would it be legal to (2, Interesting)

JeanBaptiste (537955) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403828)

hack into a spyware company's server? That in effect is what they are doing to my computer... I don't have any moral qualms about doing such things, but would the law care? I guess it also makes a difference where the spyware company is located, but what if it is the US?
I would like to give these bastards a taste of their own medicine...

Re:would it be legal to (2)

zorba1 (149815) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403861)

The law does care about gaining unauthorized access into machines. Customers, assuming they read every word of the license agreement, are made aware of what a program potentially does and can opt not to install it.

Not to defend spyware makers, but they're more "within the law" than a hacker is.

Re:would it be legal to (1)

JeanBaptiste (537955) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403901)

I have been fighting to keep gator and bonzi buddy off my machine for some time now... I have never accepted an eula for either of these products...

Re:would it be legal to (2)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403873)

I wonder if you can try to charge a spyware company with some kind of computer crime. because it is like hacking a computer.

Re:would it be legal to (2, Informative)

peddrenth (575761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403898) --
Server: Apache/1.3.19 (Unix) (Red-Hat/Linux) mod_perl/1.24_01 PHP/4.0.6 FrontPage/5.0.2 mod_ssl/2.8.1 OpenSSL/0.9.6

So apart from making it a little harder to open their server, this also shows that this company is using software generously donated by the free software community.

I think they call that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403838)

a trojan horse?

Radlight? (3, Funny)

Zaknafein500 (303608) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403841)

Does anyone even use this program?

Re:Radlight? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403992)

Well ... as someone else pointed out ... Yep ... []

Get rid of all spyware (0, Troll)

BrianGa (536442) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403845)

Download the acclaimed Ad Aware program here [] . It searches your registry and all your drives for running and installed spyware programs. It works great.

Re:Get rid of all spyware (3, Funny)

Quay42 (444528) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403885)

Surely you're kidding. I know people don't read the stories, but did you even read the description?



Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403982)

+1 Informative like Fonzie is +1 Cool.


Growing Trend (5, Insightful)

the_rev_matt (239420) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403846)

You're going to see more and more companies trying this sort of thing to prohibit you having software that they consider threatening on your computer. AOL used to screw with the setting of any competing ISP's on your system (on "accident"), IE used to cripple Netscape (on "accident"), and MSFT is now saying that you can't use some of their technology in conjunction with ANY GPL software. If we can't maintain our monopoly one way, we'll try another. This of course is a nasty step forward that even billg hasn't tried, but only because he knew there would be hell to pay. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

Re:Growing Trend (0)

anonymouZ coward (572542) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403928)

And how do you think it will get better? "They" have more lawyers, judges, congressmen and lobbyists fighting every day to make it worse. It will only get worse until it can get no worse. At that point, you will be at the mercy of the corporate marketing machine the same way you're at the mercy of the "War on Drugs".

Re:Growing Trend (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403978)

When did IE ever cripple netscape? I know netscape cripled netscape but that was by design (e.g. they let morons design the software. Sure go and reload the page every time its resized. No don't re execute writes and writelns when you do that. Sounds like a great idea to me.). I know of no incident when IE when and broke functionality in Netscape.

Re:Growing Trend (3, Insightful)

NickRob (575331) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404027)

Notice the use of the phrase 'Used to'

Users respond very negatively to screwing with things. I doubt even in the quasi-legal MS audits that they will seek out GPL software and fine you. How can they legally hold you accountable for having other software?

God, that's more monopolly garbage. Somebody needs to ask BG on the stand about this. If the prosecutors knew about this, it'd be a crushign blow.

SECOND POST (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403847)


w00t!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403851)

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In similar news... (5, Funny)

NetRanger (5584) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403857)

...Microsoft, sensing that they can copy another great idea, changed its EULA today to uninstall Linux when any of its software is run on a machine in the same building.

Re:In similar news... (2, Informative)

ethereal (13958) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403967)

Windows already overwrites your MBR if you reinstall on a dual-boot Linux system, doesn't it? So in a sense it already doesn't play well with others.

Virus-like? (5, Insightful)

Dead Penis Bird (524912) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403859)

It's one thing to add programs and fill your disk up with junk. But to actually remove a properly functioning, legal program like Ad-Aware almost seems like a targeted virus.

And why can't you uninstall parts of their program? What happened to custom installation?

This seems illegal to me.

Foolish move (5, Insightful)

Arcturax (454188) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403864)

If you were saavy enough to download ad aware in first place, what is to stop you from reinstalling it and running it again once you've installed this product? The only ones who are going to get stuck with this spyware are people who didn't think to download ad-aware in the first place. Those who lose their copy to this will just chuckle and redownload it and remove the crapware that got installed with the product.

Basically these guys wasted a lot of effort for naught and just end up looking like scum to boot.

Re:Foolish move (1)

C4v3_7r0ll (551132) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403930)

f you were saavy enough to download ad aware in first place, what is to stop you from reinstalling it and running it again once you've installed this product?

Better yet, who in their right mind would knowingly install something that was this spy intensive! I've used AdAware for six months and once I find a program that installs this crap, I never install it again. Someone should start a list of spyware laden apps so self-respecting computer users can ignore them.

spyware lists (2, Informative)

YaRness (237159) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404014)

here []
here []
here []
or of course, do your own google search here []

Re:Foolish move (5, Funny)

argStyopa (232550) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404008)

"Those who lose their copy to this will just chuckle and redownload it and remove the crapware that got installed with the product."
...and then post on /., ensuring millions of people will eventually know what a crappy product Radlight is. Nice job taking the long view, guys.

"If we're the brains of this operation, what's marketing - the boner?"

Forever Loop (1)

DeadBugs (546475) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403868)

I see an upcoming forever loop, where the next version of adaware will reinstall itself and then uninstall radlight and then radlight will reinstall and uninstall adaware, etc. etc.

Re:Forever Loop (2, Informative)

mriker (571666) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404001)

Naw, the author of RadLight has superficially apologized after catching a lot of heat, so I don't think this is going to continue. He actually said, and I quote, "...the point was NOT to destroy the adaware [...] BUT TO SHOW WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF THE PROGRAMS START UNINSTALLING EACHOTHER [sic]." Friggin' hilarious. You can read more of his amusing ass-kissing excuses and lies at the Lavasoft forums [] .

Nothing new (5, Interesting)

Zog (12506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403872)

This really isn't all that new. I'm the computer nerd in my dorm, so every week or two, someone's computer starts acting funny, and I'll have already installed Ad-Aware, and it's just that the spyware has inserted itself into Ad-Aware's ignore list, so it doesn't get touched.

Does it only run on Windows? (0)

jocknerd (29758) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403878)

If so, who the hell cares? If you're crazy enough to use that crap, then you should expect garbage like this!

Wonder if M$ is taking notes (2, Interesting)

delphin42 (556929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403884)

If they can uninstall anti-spyware during the installation process, what is to stop M$ IE from uninstalling netscape when you install it? I can't believe that someone else thought of this idea first?

Second Wide Post! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403886)

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EULA take out all responsability/liability (2, Interesting)

aepervius (535155) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403892)

EULA are used like a wash-it-out taking all responsability and making your computer not even your own.

EULA may not even be legal in most country
The problem is that since nobody fight the legality of the EULA, spyware and other abuser (or even proprietary OS maker) will make "you" consummer accept more and more in the EULA until it comes cracking down.

Uh oh (2)

NiftyNews (537829) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403893)

By reading this article, SlashDot has removed all bookmark links to legitimate news sites that report stories in a timely fashion.

You are further banned from making and/or reading any disparaging remarks involving the words "Katz," "Jon," and any combination of the aforementioned and the phrases "mom in handcuffs" and "father riding a horse."

Terrible company (5, Informative)

awptic (211411) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403895)

Did anybody else notice the page [] that shows the first and last names of everyone who's registered? This company doesn't even respect the privacy of PAYING customers... now that's _LOW_

Re:Terrible company (1)

peddrenth (575761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404006)

Cool, you can even google the obscure names of registered users... so is Mariëtte Fikkert the same as this person [mailto] from an MP3-swapping site [] 's contact list?

Privacy. Mmmmmmmm.

Whats the big deal? (1) (557454) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403899)

Why don't people just not use it if they don't like it?

I read: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403902)

s/adaware/adware and thought it was a good thing...

Spy-ware = Boycott (0)

spazmolytic666 (549909) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403906)

Putting a story like this on slashdot is good so all the tech people who read it know what products to avoid.

All we have to do is use a superior product that doesn't do semi-legal things to my box. ei winamp.

This means war. (3, Insightful)

bbqdeath (314918) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403911)

It's ugly. Gloves are coming off. Nobody tells me I can't uninstall software from my PC, ever. Anybody who does is going to go into the hurt locker for a long time.

Anyone besides me smell an arms race between ad-aware and these other guys?

Oh. And what if the ad-aware license text changes to say that other applications can't uninstall _it_? Will we have dueling license agreements?

- I traded my sig for a glock.

Virus^WProgram Idea! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403916)

The EULA virus:

You shall hold harmless the author, publisher and vendor of this program for any damage that might be inflicted upon your soul^H^H^H^Hcomputer. Furthermore, you shall hold them harmless for any further damage to your person, any belongings and your neighbors.

Then it goes on to encrypt all their porn, you'd need to register to get the key to decrypt. I feel devious!


fight back? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403923)

I hate to say it, but maybe it's time to take it to them. Maybe some of the DOS and virus engineers of the world would like some new targets that they won't get alot of people pissed about? how about they target these spyware bastards. they gotta be online somewhere. So why not return the favor ten fold? >:)

If only can repartition disks & install linux! (1)

sisukapalli1 (471175) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403929)

Wonder how that would be? Next time the user logs in, it will be Grub, lilo, or whatever...


To what ends... (2, Informative)

bteeter (25807) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403941)

... will spammers go to spam us with their Ads? I mean that is all that this spyware really is - is another form of spam. Visit and Support sites like: []

They have a wealth of information on how to fight back against the Ad-ware, Spy-ware, Scum-ware or whatever we are calling it today!

Take care,

100% Linux based Web Hosting []
Friendly Service and Knowledgeable support

In case it's slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403942)

Here's the spywareinfo page:

April 22, 2002


Users of Lavasoft's Adaware and developers of anti-spyware software need to be made aware of a shocking new development.

There is a software media player being distributed which searches for and removes Adaware if it is installed. Radlight media player has been tested by several testers and by the Adaware developer himself. Radlight, which bundles with the spyware application "Savenow" and with New.Net software, makes repeated searches for the installation of Adaware and removes it if found.

There is no mention whatsoever during installation of this software that it will remove any other software (text of the license below). This unethical and possibly illegal behavior has earned Radlight a spot on Adaware's next referencelist which is in development right now.


It turns out Radlight's newer version does contain a clause stating that Adaware's presence is in vioation of the EULA and that "such programs will be removed". Below is the relevant portion of the agreement.


This software is provided 'as-is', without any express or implied warranty. In no event will the authors be held liable for any damages arising from the invalid use of this software. You are not allowed to use any third party program (e.g Ad-aware) to uninstall application bundled with RadLight. Such programs will be removed. If you want to uninstall them, you may do so via Add/Remove in Windows' Control Panel.

Nicholas Stark, owner of Lavasoft and developer of Adaware has declared that "Under no circumstances can we accept that a Malware purposely removes our software."

If you have this software installed on your computer, you should check that your installation of Adaware (if you've installed it) is unmolested, then uninstall Radlight. If you find that your installation of Adaware has been interefered with, please contact me immediately at, and I will pass this along to the developer.

Spyware = BS loser ware (1)

Thunderheart (574412) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403945)

these Ad agencies completely SUCK. They have NO RIGHT to choose which software I do or do not have on my machine - - its a clear violation of ... oh hell. I guess NOTHING is very clear - - except kiddy porn and botox shots. Are they so desperate to hide behind a legal contract. that can bite my shiny metal ass.

EULA Means Nothing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403956)

A EULA, like any contract, is void on it's face if it contains any illegal clauses. A software company could put in it's EULA, "If you use this software, we have the right to come into your home and take your firstborn". Even though you might click Agree, it's not enforceable.

Order of Operations (1)

Liora (565268) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403960)

Adaware/Radlight Install Pack

1. Read all directions before installing

2. Install Radlight

3. Install Adaware

Heh (1)

spagma (514837) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403963)

This goes to show you how moronic the EULA are getting. They should be deemed illegal.

I just stick to Windows Media Player (1)

qurob (543434) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403966)

Most other media players SUCK

Windows media for the web, and movies

QuickTime and RealPlayer where they are REQUIRED

WinAmp for MP3's

Core wars! (1, Funny)

Harlow_B_Ashur (35202) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403969)

Rules? There are no rules in core wars!

DMCA anyone? (5, Insightful)

nyet (19118) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403971)

.. making Ad-Aware a circumvention device. Somebody should turn them in. I'd pay to see that trial.

Re:DMCA anyone? (3, Interesting)

handorf (29768) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403981)

But then isn't RadLite an Ad-Aware circumvention device?

My brain hurts.

Hmm the programmer seems quite pleased (5, Informative)

shayera (518168) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403974) (Radlight)
Here the programmer of Radlight handwaves a lot, claiming it was just to point out it was possible to do so (the removal of other apps while installing) and that if he hadn't someone else would.. geeee..
He's been caught redhanded, he ought to atleast apologise properly, and promtly stop doing it

Software companies think they can do anything... (3, Insightful)

fungus (37425) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403975)

...if they write it in their EULA.

Would it be legal to write in an EULA that my software X cannot be used on the same computer than software Y, and uninstall it without warning if it finds it?

Have Netscape, for instance, remove without warning Internet Explorer from your computer? (But have it written in small characters somewhere that you can't use another third party software to surf the web)

How about having a software running in background to ensure that you dont download a competing package?

People should make it clear that we, computer users, will not tolerate such things.


Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403977)

Why isn't McAfee etc putting these programs into their databases to not allow to be installed on their machines. Not only that, but creating rogue software that damages your system (uninstalls software you installed) is ILLEGAL AS ALL HELL. No EULA will hold up to that. Recently this has moved into the TERRORISM realm, where it's a huge offense to do anything like this. This isn't just fun and games, but real time behind bars for life stuff. Are people this cracked or what? Could you imagine this happening on the Presents CPU? Not cool.

How to Combat this (3, Funny)

NickRob (575331) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403979)

Step One: Download the player
Step two: Run player, see if the company isn't bs'ing
Step Three: if adaware == missing Then change facial.expresson to 'Shocked'
Step Four: Download a new version of AdAware that can disable the player's abilities. Step Five: Laugh. You have beaten the system, my friend! Today is a good day!

whats next .. (2, Funny)

jest3r (458429) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403983)

So we can expect that Adaware will add a disclaimer to their EULA stating that:
"Any attempt to uninstall our software will result in an uninstall upon reinstallation .. further more we will uninstall our uninstaller to prevent future uninstalls."

thanks for the tip (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403986)

You mean that Adaware actually does this? Damn thanks Radlight I would never have used it until you pointed that out for me. Oh btw, I think after I install Adaware I will look for some alternative to your product.

Thanks you guys!

Holy Shite it's not legal (1)

richlb (168636) | more than 12 years ago | (#3403989)

It's no more legal than selling a telephone that won't hang up when a telemarketer calls.

Or a TV that changes your premium cable channels to HBO when plugged in.

They will have a LOT of explaining to do.

Bruce willis is dead in the sixth sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3403997)

Bruce willis is dead in the sixth sense

Maybe... (2, Interesting)

Dr. Bent (533421) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404003)

...putting an insanely unreasonable clause in your EULA is a form of marketing now. Before today I had never heard of Radlight. No such thing as bad publicity, I suppose.

If this bothers you (1)

ahoehn (301327) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404007)

..let know how you feel.

Let's go over this slowly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3404010)

How exactly is it illegal for this program to remove Adaware but not illegal for Adaware to remove this program. Remember, both tell you they'll be removing the other program.

How would they know I used ad-aware? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3404013)

I could just say I unistalled it manually

Ad-Aware already strikes back... (2, Informative)

PunchMonkey (261983) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404022)

...with a new referencefile ( 108-23-04-02 ).

Download it from here [] .

They even thank their users! (2)

jvmatthe (116058) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404025)

They have a page to thank some of their users. See it here [] . (For the wary, that's how the page really sets the address in the location bar. Just an IP address. Nice, eh?)

What really surprised me was the part at the end of the thanks note:
[snip list of registered users]
Sincerely Yours
RadLight Team


Ok, maybe not, but I half expected that, when I saw the "thanks" page. ;^)

similar to the RIAA's plans (3, Interesting)

timon (46050) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404035)

This story immediately reminded me of some of the RIAA plans to hack your home machines [] (also mentioned here [] ). I can't wait for the day when the big virus/trojan du jour hammering corporate networks and bringing down servers right and left turns out to be from the RIAA or MPAA.

"We were just protecting our copyrights, it's not our fault that your payroll files were lost!"

Voluntary information (3, Insightful)

smartipants (561845) | more than 12 years ago | (#3404036)

I think one of the problems concerning spyware and intelligent agent type technologies is the fact that in order to get good performance people think they need to rely on implicitly collected data, in which case the user always wonders exactly what else they could be collecting. They justify the use of spyware to collect information that users never would take the time to submit themselves. This is a misguided approach, since good personalized recommendation technology is available with explicit user feedback instead (such as Stumbleupon [] for websurfing).

I think that many companies feel such approaches are necessary in order to collect information without too much user hassle. The focus should instead be on improved interfaces which allow people to easily submit information as they desire. This way the benefits of personalization can be had, yet people know exactly how much information about themselves they have revealed...
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