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Apple Drops Mac OS 9

pudge posted more than 12 years ago | from the bah-humbug-foo dept.

OS 9 675

Eugenia Loli writes "MacCentral has the up-to-the-minute updates on the Apple WorldWide Developer Conference. The first big news is that Apple drops Mac OS 9. 'It's time to drop OS 9,' Steve Jobs said. 'We can do things in X that we just can't do in 9... a hundred percent of what we're doing is X only. [...] Mac OS 9 isn't dead for our customers, but it is for developers. Today we say goodbye to Mac OS 9 for all future development,' said Jobs." We all expected this to happen sooner or later, more sooner than later. There's been no new Apple development for Mac OS 9 in some time; only maintenance updates. But I won't stop Mac OS 9 development. You can't stop me! Muahahahaha! Update: 05/06 18:31 GMT by P : More news from WWDC continues to roll in.Eugenia Loli writes "Probably the really big news is with Jaguar, the codename for Mac OS X 10.2. There is handwriting recognition technology that will be recognized by any application that uses text. Apple also introduced Quartz Extreme, which takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards, and combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. 'Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL.' It requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM. It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of 'the other guys.'"

Update: 05/06 18:46 GMT by P : An anonymous user writes: "Apple is releasing Mac OS X Rackmount Servers. Also releasing AIM-compatible messaging called iChat; you can create buddy lists of anyone on the local network, and you can use your mac.com username to log in to it."

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fp (-1, Offtopic)

The Turd Report (527733) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471223)

Foist Proast, Beotches!

Holy Crap! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471224)

I realize now that Apple truly sucks donkey 'nads!

Heh. (0, Troll)

hism (561757) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471225)

About time.

That sucks (0)

thePredator (220152) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471226)

That sucks, OS 9 was the greatest OS apple released ever, so much faster then the slow ass OS X, plus the GUI was better, no stupid Dock, It sure will be missed by me....

Re:That sucks (2, Informative)

MissMyNewton (521420) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471251)

slow ass OS X

Guess you didn't read yet:

Quartz Extreme: Takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards. Combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. "Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL." Requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM.

There *IS* a caveat:

It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. AGP 2x and 32MB video RAM are required for this new technology. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of "the other guys."

Two years ahead of the "other guys" (1)

drwav (577314) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471508)

ok, so OS X 10.2 is gonna be mad fast if you have a nice graphics card because everything is going to be rendered in hardware (e.g. those transparancies, and drop shadows and other eye candy that my mac OS X using associate is always raving about... yes I'm am PC user) however this is going to force some people to either buy new hardware or just never upgrade... this is something that just doesn't happen nearly as often on the PC side (I've seen Windows 2000 run on an ancient P 133, I'm sure a lot of you have seen even worse than that). Apple may be the first when it comes to graphical speed (and even them I've very skeptical) but they are dead last in Legacy Support...

and they are first in screwing their customers... even worse than Microsoft screws people...

If I'm worng... please set me straight.

Re:That sucks (1)

feloneous cat (564318) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471468)

That sucks, OS 9 was the greatest OS apple released ever, so much faster then the slow ass OS X, plus the GUI was better, no stupid Dock, It sure will be missed by me....

Except that OS 9's ability to kill apps only worked (at best) 50% of the time and badly behaved programs could tie up the machine and the TCP/IP stack was dreadfully slow and the lack of preemption pretty much killed a lot of things.

Other than that, it was like having a razor blade slicing your eyeball. And no, I'm not a troll, in fact I'm on the Developer list.

OS/9 had its day in the sun. It was a setting sun and everyone knew it. Time to move on sparky to bigger and better things...

you are gay (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471235)

this is the "you are gay" first post

stupid moderators (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471299)

OK, this is an "anonymous" post that starts at 0.
nobody in his right mind would vote it up.
the default threshold is 1 so most people will never see this post.

so why the fuck do you waste your mod point to mod it down instead of using your mod point to mod a good comment up??
don't you realise you're a retard?

Re:stupid moderators (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471413)

the default threshold is 1 so most people will never see this post.
So why is there a configurable threshhold? For people to make their own decisions for themselves. Not you. Jerk.

so why the fuck do you waste your mod point to mod it down instead of using your mod point to mod a good comment up??
Moderation is blind to results, it only cares about the process. You'll note that there isn't a "+1 More people should be able to see this post" moderation.

don't you realise you're a retard?
No.

Pirst Fost baby! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471238)

mods on crack!

Rendezvous sounds interesting... open standard too (5, Interesting)

arson1 (527855) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471240)

Rendezvous. Dynamic IP discovery. Lets computers "dynamically discover each other and share them." Proposing as a new industry standard. Jobs cited example of multiple Macs working at home sharing MP3 files with iTunes between multiple computers. Demonstrated example of MP3 files streaming over AirPort. Works with any IP-ready device; built into Jaguar and will also be offered as an open industry standard that can be built into specific devices.

It's called zeroconf (5, Informative)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471418)

The IETF zeroconf working group [ietf.org] , led by Apple's Stuart Cheshire, has been working on this for a while.

Re:Rendezvous sounds interesting... open standard (0, Offtopic)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471491)

kick ass, no more SMB!!!!!!!!

Oh Happy Day (2)

actappan (144541) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471244)

I for one am glad - both as a developer having to support to highly divergent platforms, and as a unix head who's had to work with the classic OS. I like OS X. It's unix (almost) my mom could use. There's a lot to be said for that.

Re:Oh Happy Day (1)

Karma Sink (229208) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471303)

Out of curiousity, do you consider it (almost) UNIX, or something that your mom could (almost) use? I couldn't tell where that (almost) was supposed to go...

Update from WWDC (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471247)

Two more news from MacWorld:

Inkwell: Handwriting recognition technology. Recognized by any application that uses text, even basic UNIX applications like Terminal.

Quartz Extreme: Takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards. Combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. "Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL." Requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM. It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. AGP 2x and 32MB video RAM are required for this new technology. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of "the other guys."

It is funny if you think that Apple STILL SELLS the Classic iMacs for $1000, that only have 16 MB of graphics RAM.

Re:Update from WWDC (2)

jht (5006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471480)

That's actually pretty interesting. If 32MB RAM has to be ON the video card, a lot of machines that run OS X 10.1.x just fine are SOL when it comes to taking advantage of Quartz Extreme. But if the relevant spec is a fairly modern 2x AGP video card, and it's allowed to steal memory via the AGP bus, then that's not so much of a problem. But until last week, the state-of-the-art TiBook (for instance) had an ATI Radeon Mobility with only 16MB onboard RAM.

I know - I have one. It'll suck if Quartz Extreme won't take advantage of my TiBook.

you are so gay (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471248)

and that's all I have to say
you are gay

sooo gay....

Really Bad idea. (1)

blankley (17828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471250)

This is a really bad idea for Apple. I support a large number of Mac people, and they just aren't moving to OS X. They're buying imacs and asking me how to boot it to OS 9 by default. Apple, once again, shooting themselves in the foot.

Really Good Idea (2, Insightful)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471320)

All he said is whats been happening since 9.1 came out, Apple has stopped devloping the OS 7-8-9 code base and are going to move everything to OS X.

Since Oct 2000, there were only 2 minor updates to OS 9 anyway.

Just because they arn't going to develop for OS 9 anymore doesn't mean OS 9 that's installed is going to stop working.

Tough Shit. (5, Insightful)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471331)

I knew a lot of Windows users who said the same thing when Win95 came out. I knew a few who held onto Win 3.11 like some sort of retarded obsessive high-school crush until it simply no longer worked anymore. They whined, they complained, but, eventually, they were forced to run Win9x. And, guess what? They found out what everyone else did: Win 3.11 sucked. Win95 was better. Win98 was even better.

MacOS 9 sucked. MacOS X is better. The next release should suck even less. That's how these things work. You can whine about it all you want, but whining never turned the tides of progress (if it did, slashdot would be trend-setting.)

- A.P.

Re:Tough Shit. (1)

blankley (17828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471482)

I don't know about you, but I've still got to support 3.11 installs...

Re:Tough Shit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471484)


Win98 was even better.

Not really.

Re:Tough Shit. (3, Funny)

cpeterso (19082) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471505)


but what about Windows XP? I have not found any compelling reason to switch from Windows 2000 to Windows XP. The only reason I have even considered it is the ClearType font blurring and the fact that the Start button and scroll bars "hit areas" actually extend to the edge of the screen, making them easier to click. This is very advanced technology, I think.. ;-)

Re:Really Bad idea. (2)

gwernol (167574) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471344)

I support a large number of Mac people, and they just aren't moving to OS X.

The question is: why aren't they moving? The answers I've most often heard are:

1) Not enough applications on X yet.
2) Not enough hardware drivers on X yet.
3) Don't like the UI

Killing development of 9 is the best way Apple can incent third party software developers to address issues 1 and 2, which is exactly why this is a good move, IMHO. There's not much they can do about 3, but most Mac users I know who have tried both actually find Mac OS X works fine for them. YMMV.

Re:Really Bad idea. (1)

blankley (17828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471438)

The question is: why aren't they moving? The answers I've most often heard are:
1) Not enough applications on X yet.
2) Not enough hardware drivers on X yet.
3) Don't like the UI

No. 3. Definitely No. 3.

Re:Really Bad idea. (2)

Strog (129969) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471353)

When they start want to use the latest software they will want to start making OS X the default. Good thing it is so easy to change. Forced change isn't good but at least they can focus on OS X and make it better.

Re:Really Bad idea. (2)

Riskable (19437) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471355)

I support a large number of Mac people, and they just aren't moving to OS X.

You see, that's just the problem Apple is dealing with here. People aren't adopting Mac OS X fast enough. In order for them to really kick butt they need to get Mac OS into the hands of more people (so more developers will create software, so more people will switch, etc--it's a vicious circle).

Besides, they're not telling people they can't use Mac OS 9 anymore, they're telling the developers. It's all part of the master plan... and it does more good than bad. So what's the problem?

About time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471257)

So when are they going to start supporting DOS?

Buy new every two (1)

Protozoa (19702) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471260)

A new macintosh purchased just two years ago is now out of style. Thanks, Steve.

Re:Buy new every two (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471327)

My iMac is more than two years old and run OSX just fine. Try it.

Re:Buy new every two (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471346)

How so?

My 4 and a half year old Mac is still running OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.1.4 just fine.

I doubt that when I go home tonight, OS 9 won't run.

Re:Buy new every two (1)

mookie-blaylock (522933) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471441)

You don't fear the reality distortion field enough. Not only will OS9 not run tonight, your computer will melt down unless you boot into 10.1.4 and make an iMovie about how great OS X is. :)

Re:Buy new every two (1)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471380)

Actually, A new macintosh purchased just two years ago is now old.

Re:Buy new every two (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471391)

How about my iBook purchased two months ago that has only 8MB of vram on its 2xAGP card?

That means the single biggest performance boost in Jaguar (OpenGL/Quartz Extreme) won't be supported.

I gave up most hope on my beige G3 long ago... but it's nearly 4 years old now. I only get the spinning beach ball when I have more than three or four apps open... ;)

Re:Buy new every two (1)

stubblehead (565808) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471405)

That's unfair - you can still buy OS X and install it separately. The machines that aren't supported to run OS X are pre-G3's, which are long before 2 years ago. Plus, this move was announced a long time ago - it just wasn't definitly defined by a date. It's not the hardware that's outdated, it's the software. And the developers were given the heads-up years ago, not last week. If you don't change with the world, you'll be sitting alone as it passes by.

Makes sense (5, Interesting)

gwernol (167574) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471262)

This makes huge sense for Apple: their future is Mac OS X and the company has been saying this for some time. I'm glad they are making the cut now, still relatively early in the new OS's life cycle. This will help push developers onto the new platform; in turn this is good for end users because the applications they need to run are more likely to appear on Mac OS X.

And again it shows that Apple are able to make gutsey decisions and lead the market rather than follow it. Whatever you think of the relative merits of X vs. 9, this is the kind of bleeding-edge decision making that Apple needs if it is to differentiate itself from the Windows platform.

Re:Makes sense (1)

UnanimousCoward (9841) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471394)

I'm happy that I'm getting cut off at the knees in terms of Apple printing solutions using my HP JetDirect--now, I'll be looking at Yellow Dog, something that I've been procrastinating doing...

Re:Makes sense (1, Insightful)

mrroot (543673) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471500)

OK, I've got Karma to burn.

As a fun experiment I replaced "Apple" with "Microsoft" and "OS X" with ".Net". The result shows just how hypocritical slashdot visitors are when it comes to Microsoft vs how much they praise Apple/Linux/Whoever for the same thing...

This makes huge sense for Microsoft: their future is .Net and the company has been saying this for some time. I'm glad they are making the cut now, still relatively early in .Net's life cycle. This will help push developers onto the new platform; in turn this is good for end users because the applications they need to run are more likely to appear on .Net.

And again it shows that Microsoft are able to make gutsey decisions and lead the market rather than follow it. Whatever you think of the relative merits of .Net vs. traditional COM applications, this is the kind of bleeding-edge decision making that Microsoft needs if it is to differentiate itself from the other platforms.

Ethernet (1)

FozzTexx (186554) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471264)

Now how am I going to be able to use the KNE110TX in my Beige G3? Kingston only made drivers for OS9, and OSX doesn't see it for some reason.

Ditch it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471352)

Kingston hasn't updated any of their drivers for those cards. I don't think they MAKE ethernet cards anymore.

Go with Asante instead.

Not quite as good as 9.x yet (4, Insightful)

ericdano (113424) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471265)

A lot of things still don't work as well as 9.x yet. For example, a USB laser printer I got for my G4 Cube. It takes longer for it to print under OS X than in 9.2.

Then there are programs I used everyday, MUSIC programs, like Finale and Digital Performer, that don't work (Performer) in OS X or are buggy (Finale).

I mean, it's great that they want to move to OS X. It's a great OS. I love running it. I just can't get all the things I need to work on it yet. And, if memory serves me, didn't Apple support System 7.X for a long time after System 8 came out? And when they switched to Power PC Chips from Motorola 680XX chips. We had FAT (68K/PPC) programs for like years.

What is the big rush Steve?

Re:Not quite as good as 9.x yet (5, Insightful)

gwernol (167574) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471389)

A lot of things still don't work as well as 9.x yet. For example, a USB laser printer I got for my G4 Cube. It takes longer for it to print under OS X than in 9.2.
Then there are programs I used everyday, MUSIC programs, like Finale and Digital Performer, that don't work (Performer) in OS X or are buggy (Finale).


Well the biggest incentive for a developer to port their software to Mac OS X is that Mac OS 9 isn't going to be developed in the future. So their revnue streams dry up if they don't make the leap to the new OS. I'm sure this move is primarily aimed at getting more third party software to X, so it should address your concern.

I mean, it's great that they want to move to OS X. It's a great OS. I love running it. I just can't get all the things I need to work on it yet. And, if memory serves me, didn't Apple support System 7.X for a long time after System 8 came out? And when they switched to Power PC Chips from Motorola 680XX chips. We had FAT (68K/PPC) programs for like years.

Apple haven't announced they will stop supporting 9. I would guess (no inside info) that they'll support it for years to come. They've just announced they won't be developing it any further. That means no more releases of 9.x except for bug fixes. This is exactly what happened with the shift from 7.x to 8.x: they continued to support 7.x but didn't release any version after 7.6 (if that's the right number).

What is the big rush Steve?

Don't forget this was announced at the developer's conference. The venue is significant. It's Apple's way of telling its third party developers that it is time to port your software to Mac OS X.

Re:Not quite as good as 9.x yet (2)

tshak (173364) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471395)

The problem is always motivated. Personally, I believe that apps likes Performer and Finale have had ample time to get "up to par" and as you've mentioned are not there yet. I think a lot of this complaicency is due to the "our customers haven't really upgraded yet" mentality. Once Jobs says OS 9 is done, you better believe software vendors will put more resources into OS X. Personally, I think this is a great move. I'm a PC guy, and there's been similar problems (especially with hardware) in the music/video arena with Win2K and XP. I'm debating switching my "media machine" to a G4, however, I really want to run OS X. I'll end up going with whichever OS get's their act together.

Re:Not quite as good as 9.x yet (1)

ignorant_newbie (104175) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471396)

this post looks somehow familiar...

Re:Not quite as good as 9.x yet (5, Insightful)

dhovis (303725) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471412)

This is a developer conference, not a user conference. The point is that all Apple developers should be targetting OS X now. If you want to target OS 9 as well, you can use Carbon, but Apple no longer wants developers using the Classic APIs. Porting from Classic -> Carbon is not trivial, but it is not a huge job either.

Apple will continue to update OS 9 a little, but no new features should be expected, only the occational bugfix and updates to CarbonLib so that OS 9/X compatibility will be maintained.

I expect that classic will become an optional install (not by default) sometime in 2003 and it will probably be wiped out all together by 2005.

Also, FWIW, OS 8 was going to be OS 7.7 but Apple decided to call it OS 8. There were not that many changes. It was certainly nowhere near the OS 9 to OS X shift.

Re:Not quite as good as 9.x yet (1)

DebianDog (472284) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471451)

Another way of looking at your point...

What better way of forcing companies who create Mac programs to make an OSX version.

I will NOT buy OS9 programs since I refuse to use it. I like and trust Unix. Granted I do not have $$$ invested in OS 9 so I cannot feel the pain in your wallet. Hopefully the upgrade won't be too expensive.

Rush? It has been almost 2 years!!!

Re:Not quite as good as 9.x yet (1)

hazehead (316081) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471466)

At least your printer works at all... i got a cheapie Epson that still isn't supported under OSX. I love burning 40MB of ram just to boot Acrobat under classic so I can print pdfs.

Have to agree with the decision tho. The difference between OS9-X and 68K-PPC is that you (allegedly) can run all your apps under OSX's emulation so everything is already backwards compatible.

The MacOS is dead...Long Live the MacOS (0)

BobWeiner (83404) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471268)

Well, I can't say that I am going to shed a tear and lament the passing of MacOS 9. It was good for its day, but MacOS X is here to stay.

Bob [pcweenies.com]

how about the source (1, Interesting)

RealisticWeb.com (557454) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471271)

In my opinion, if they have completely stoped development, why don't they start releasing some source code for older versions of the OS? That would really get the OSS community involved!

Re:how about the source (2)

colmore (56499) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471335)

i think they'd prefer to have the OSS community working on OSX

So sad to see it go... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471282)

...ah, the unprotected memory. The cooperative multitasking. The first one taught me to never make off-by-one errors in CodeWarrior (it also, by proxy, taught me all about MacsBug). The second taught me never to FTP things while typing in a telnet window.

Yeah, I'll sure miss Pre-X MacOS...

*nix marches on (3, Insightful)

guacamolefoo (577448) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471285)

Some Apple users may feel abandoned by this news, but it is obviously not unexpected. I suggest a little grief-counseling for the truly bereaved, but I'd bet that there are a lot of people out there who would actually consider buying a Mac now that wouldn't have dreamed it a year or so ago.

OS X brings Apple into a larger community and out of isolation. It may take some time for all of this to become apparent, but I think it is pretty obvious that everyone involved (Apple evangelists, *nix evangelists) will be better off with this move.

Guac-foo.

It is about time (1)

rogerl (143996) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471287)

It is about time...

Good-bye and good riddance.

Rest in Peace, MacOS 9 (2, Informative)

murr (214674) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471289)

I've programmed in classic MacOS for 17 years, and I've actually contributed to MacOS 9. However, I upgraded my home Mac when 10.1 came out and never looked back.

MacOS 9 had a great existence, but MacOS X is superior in every way.

...you're our only hope. (1)

petej (36394) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471290)

Quick, someone needs to write a petition to open-source Mac OS 9! And then we can put Beowulf clustering into Mac OS 9 and...

Oh, nevermind.

Re:...you're our only hope. (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471414)

I already have one, it's in a magic box, see? But no fair looking for hidden wires or anything!

Regards,
Madison Priest

A little too quick! (0)

SpamJunkie (557825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471291)

As usual slashdot couldn't resist posting this before getting all the facts straight - or getting all the facts at all. Here are two other portions of the still-live announcement that would have been worth waiting for:

"Rendezvous. Dynamic IP discovery. Lets computers "dynamically discover each other and share them." Proposing as a new industry standard. Jobs cited example of multiple Macs working at home sharing MP3 files with iTunes between multiple computers. Demonstrated example of MP3 files streaming over AirPort. Works with any IP-ready device; built into Jaguar and will also be offered as an open industry standard that can be built into specific devices."

and

"Quartz Extreme: Takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards. Combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. "Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL." Requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM."

Does this really impact developers? (2)

RatOmeter (468015) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471293)

As stated, 'twas gonna happen sooner or later. My thinking is that the notification of OS 9 being shelved is of only passing interest, as it is passe' itself.

OTOH, being an embedded systems developer, I know the havoc that can be caused by a vendor pulling a platform from under your feet. Are there actually any (commercial) developers who will be adversely affected by this? Does anyone really care that it's on its way out?

My own opinion is that OS X has so many advantages that it's a hands-down winner 'twixt the two.

Shine on, OS X!

Re:Does this really impact developers? (5, Interesting)

MouseR (3264) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471472)

Dropping OS 9 has big implications on developers.

For our Mac version of the product, we had just decided (last week!) to drop support for Mac OS 8.6. Carbon on 8.6 was a major pain.

By going 9-up only, it'll spare us about 4 weeks testing.

Now that Apple itself is dropping support for Mac OS 9, it'll be easier on us to talk about dropping 8.6 support.

We'll continue supporting Mac OS 9 for this release, but for the next release, we'll have ample munitions to entirely drop classic Mac OSes. That ought to trim the application code by about 10%, and accelerate the runtime because of all the IF X switches in the code.

Might not sound like that big of a deal, but when your networking stack checks, at runtime, which layer you're using (Mac TCP for 8.6, OpenTransport for 8.6 up to X, and BSD for X), this really adds up. Let alone all the Classic vs AQUA UI tweaks.

Out of curiosity, I just grepped our sources for this specific runtime switch. There are 87 occurences of it!

Comments. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471306)

the comments on the past several stories have been far too narrow, and consequently exceeding difficult to read.

Would some brave troll please expand these pages to a more acceptable width?

Gutsy move (2)

colmore (56499) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471308)

I'm very impressed by Apples willingness to sacrifice backwards compatibility to make a better platform.

It's a risky move on a business level, but on an engineering level, it makes a lot of sense. I just have to hope that good design will beat questionable marketing.

Re:Gutsy move (2)

Kamel Jockey (409856) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471366)

... willingness to sacrifice backwards compatibility to make a better platform.

It's not the first time they did this... remember when they switched from the 68xxx series CPU to the PowerPC based CPU? That was quite gutsy as well as they had to use emulation to support the old 68xxx for quite some time after those machines ceased production.

I wonder if anyone is masochistic enough to attempt run an old 68xxx application in emulation mode in OS9 while running that under classic mode in OSX :)

Re:Gutsy move (1)

DavidSJ (454284) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471461)

I do it all the time. Works fine.

Developing? (-1, Flamebait)

client32 (316110) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471309)

Why are you developing for Mac in the first place?

Great Category (5, Funny)

waldoj (8229) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471311)

You might want to rethink that new Mac OS 9 [slashdot.org] category, then, huh?

:)

-Waldo Jaquith

Re:Great Category? (your an idiot) (0)

trolliamnot (575631) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471382)

What are you stupid? You can't expect them to remove it on an annocment like that. There will still be the odd news on it now and then. Wow, you are a real idiot. I can't believe you can even type. Jesus. WHat the heck is wrong with you?

Re:Great Category (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471449)

There's still a BeOS and an Amiga category.

Ironic isn't it? (1)

Twister002 (537605) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471312)

If MS had just announced that they weren't going to develop for the Windows 98 and NT platforms anymore, this comment board would be filled with people yelling about their decision and how typical of MS it was.

Oh wait, they've already done that.

Press Vs. Developers (1)

redragon (161901) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471314)

The press (and Journalism types everywhere for that matter) are going to snort and scream about this one for a while, and they have reason, they seem to be the only ones waiting for major applications.

However, developers (I) on the other hand should be leaping with joy. Seems every time I've talked to someone about doing a port of an application, they want MacOS 9 and X support, and honestly as cool as Carbon can be, I'd rather be using C++ and Cocoa (Obj-C) with all the cool stuff that only MacOS X does.

About time they've done this. Despite some of the speed issues associated with MacOS X, it just doesn't have the baggage that MacOS 9.X and previous had.

`Bout dang time.

Finally! (5, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471328)

At last, we can say goodbye to what Mac developers knew as the Mess Inside. It's one of those great moments in programming, like when you could finally stop worrying about supporting the 16-bit x86 version of your code.

Down inside, the original MacOS was a lot like DOS - single-application, single thread, and no memory protection. Over the years, multiple applications were retrofitted to the thing, resulting in a horrible mess. CPU dispatching was the worst part. "Cooperative multitasking" wasn't enough. But instead of putting a real scheduler, all sorts of "tasks" (timer tasks, vertical blanking interval tasks, system tasks, deferred tasks, multiprocessor tasks, Open Transport tasks, etc.) were added over time. Each of these had a different set of restrictions on what it could do. It would have been far simpler to put in a real CPU dispatcher early on.

Better late than never, I suppose.

A Proposal: (-1, Offtopic)

dupper (470576) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471334)

"x>9": an emoticon denoting the extreme pain induced by a Jobsian freak's rant.

Thank you for your time.

Re:A Proposal: (0)

dupper (470576) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471409)

Let me translate, you god-damned moderator on crack: X is more than (connoting better than) 9, posted to an article on Apple's OS9 being completely phased out by Aplle's OSX.

You may not realise this, but a false "-1 offtopic" can really hurt a guy.

Re:A Proposal: (0, Offtopic)

Mr. Neutron (3115) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471502)

You may not realise this, but a false "-1 offtopic" can really hurt a guy.

"Offtopic" really means "What you said, while inarguably related to the story, was clever or irreverant in a way I, the moderator, find unsettling."
Haven't you figured that out yet?

Why the icon? (5, Interesting)

SuperguyA1 (90398) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471338)

O.K. Moderators have your fun with me, but I can't help but comment on the new OS 9 icon where the only story under the topic is the end of OS9. Wouldn't this be better placed under Apple:)

Evil of Slashdot! (0)

SpamJunkie (557825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471371)

Like the bully it is slashdot has now ruined the fun for the rest of us. Maccentral has been slashdotted - no more live reporting for anyone.

Oh God, how I hate thee, Slashdot.

Apple drops Mac OS (1)

poleshifter (461440) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471373)

The Macintosh is finally dead.

Long live NeXT!

Once Apple realizes that the PowerPC has no change of catching up with Intel/AMD, they will have to abandon that too.

This will moving things along (1)

theCat (36907) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471385)

Apple has had to split support and development across 2 Mac OS, as have many of their 3rd party developers. Now, there is one platform again. Developers who have been slow to support OSX will now have to move their asses or drop the Mac. Some will of course do that latter. It will be interesting to see what remains.

"Muahahahaha!" (2, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471393)

But
I won't stop Mac OS 9 development. You can't stop me! Muahahahaha!

You're mad! Mad, I say, mad!

BTW, how long till the first OS-9 emulator hits the fan? ;)

Re:"Muahahahaha!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471457)

And what do you think Classic.app is?

Re:"Muahahahaha!" (1)

ZerothAngel (219206) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471506)

BTW, how long till the first OS-9 emulator hits the fan? ;)
Classic, you mean? :)

One rather ballsy note from Jobs (4, Interesting)

eXtro (258933) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471411)

Jobs spoke about including peer-to-peer networking in the next full release of MacOS X and even included sharing MP3 as an example of how it could be used. Speaking technically thats a minor thing, there are many applications that are capable of doing this, such as LimeWire. Not many companies are willing to include this as a feature though, its too risky with both the MPAA and RIAA convinced peer-to-peer is evil.


Apple seems to be taunting them on purpose, consider their "Rip. Mix. Burn." ads. Gateway payed Apple the sincerest form of flattery with their later ad campaign, but still Apple was the first to stick their neck out.

Great. My iBook just went old. (0, Flamebait)

Lars -1 (308687) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471419)

This is just great. Suddenly my 2 months old iBook just became a lot older. The iBook will be 6 months old when Jaguar comes out. And already they are not supporting it's graphics card with the new feature...

Way to go, apple.

Lars

ATTBI. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471421)

I wonder if this will spur ATTBI to officially support MacOSX. As of right now, they will only support users booting into MacOS 9 first then doing the troubleshooting there.

Fucking morons. Saying that ATTBI doesn't support it because they have not done enough testing...

TCP/IP set to ethernet/dhcp and use IE. How fucking hard could it possibly be?

Good coverage at Spymac (3, Interesting)

gwernol (167574) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471427)

For good minute-by-minute coverage of the keynote, commit HTTP to Apple Confidential [spymac.com] . The latest news (as I post this) is iChat a new Apple IM client built into the 10.2 release of Mac OS X. I know the lead engineer on that project and I expect it will be pretty sweet.

goodbye beige (5, Funny)

tps12 (105590) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471429)

Since OS 9 is no longer being supported, and OS X is not supported on any of the beige (or black, for Powerbooks) Macs, I guess the era began with the Ugly Yellow Box is finally at an end.

With it go some of the things that Mac users have come to love about their quirky boxes...high quality (but expensive) parts, Easter Eggs, strange homebrew interfaces (ADB, anyone?), tiny screens, humorous error messages that convey no information...everything that at one point made Apple Apple.

Well, I don't like it. You can have your protected memory. And while you're at it, you can remember to take your preemptive multitasking, too. We Mac users have always maintained that that kind of stuff just isn't needed for the home user, and I stand by it, even if Steve Jobs won't.

Call me crazy, but I appreciate an intuitive interface; yeah, that's right: intuitive. Since when does it make sense for "Shut Down" to be classified under a little picture of an Apple? How is your average Joe or Jane going to find it there, when it clearly should be labelled "Special". There was a time when the Apple icon was reserved for "Chooser" and "Calculator", but that time has come to pass.

Not to mention the new "brushed metal" appearance of the Apple CD player. Once upon a time, a user could choose (yes, remember choice?) from an extensive handful of horrid, non-standard color schemes for the late, great Apple CD Audio Player.

So let's raise our glasses in honor of Mac OS 1-9, the interface we hated to love for so many years. And let us launch off our Holiday Rockets in honor of Steven Jobs, our own great Lincoln, liberating the slaves of the antebellum command line. And raise too our voices, for tonight we give thanks where none thanks have dared yet go.

Thank you, Macintosh, for everything. The Last Mac Purist,

Gee, Thanks! (5, Insightful)

TotallyUseless (157895) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471434)

A. Next time, wait till the keynote is over, dont just post the first thing that happens and then have to go back and keep updating the article. There is always lots of interesting stuff said in the keynotes, no point jumping the gun.

B. Thanks for getting the maccentral.com link hammered halfway through the keynote. I always enjoy having my keynote newspage refreshing session destroyed by a few million of the unwashed slashdot masses, half of whom are probably just trying to read the article to find trolling material. This ties back to A. in that if you had waited to post this till after the keynote, those of us that *really* care would have been able to finish getting updates about the keynote before the link was trampled.

Mod me down, I don't care. I'm frustrated.

Woo Hoo, Spring Loaded Folders is all I wanted. (2)

thaigan (197773) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471436)

I'm thrilled to see spring loaded folders coming back!

Byebye iBooks (1)

stew77 (412272) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471443)

As their "Quartz Extreme" requires 32MB video RAM, Apple will have a hard time selling their iBooks...


Other than that: Wasn't AGP supposed to allow the GPU to access system RAM as well, albeit slower?

Re:Byebye iBooks (2)

Kenja (541830) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471465)

Yes that is in fact what AGP can do. However this was to store textures not to be used as display memory.

Rack Mounted Server May 14th! (1)

rschroeder (186919) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471444)

About Damn Time!

Thieves (0)

I.T.R.A.R.K. (533627) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471446)

"'We can do things in X that we just can't do in 9..."

Like steal from the Open Source community, no doubt.

so SLOW (1)

jchristopher (198929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471448)

It's still so damn slow! OSX is clearly far more stable and versatile than OS 9, but OS 9 puts it to shame with it's speed. OS X is very slow to respond to mouse clicks and redraws.

What exactly is the problem here? An OS doesn't have to be slow to be stable (Both Be and Windows 2000 are very snappy, even on "entry level" hardware.)

The main problem here is that a $1000 PC runs Windows 2000 lightning fast, and a $1000 Mac with OSX is very slow. They have to address this!

Jump out in front, Steve (2)

hndrcks (39873) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471452)

OS-X is based on a lot of open-source code. Time for payback! Open-source the OS9 code (and its predecessors)!

BTW, guys, I like the 'Aqua' slash theme... but won't you get sued [slashdot.org] ?

Rack Mount Servers! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471462)

but no details until Tues, May 14.

Will classic apps still run in classic environment (1)

thaigan (197773) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471473)

Will classic apps still run in classic environment?
How long until the classic compatibility layer is no longer functional?
Did anybody hear any specifics?

Dammit! (3, Interesting)

jchristopher (198929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471492)

It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of 'the other guys.'"

WTF is that?!? The iBook, a machine they are selling RIGHT NOW does not meet those specs. So basically their current 'entry level' model is never going to have accelerated video? This is ridiculous.

I had one, it was so slow that I sold it. This video driver issue is probably the reason why.

Macs last longer than PCs, huh? How long is an iBook with no video acceleration going to be able to keep up with OS X? Apparently by "two years ahead", Steve means "you'll need the machine we'll be selling two years from now to keep up with the OS we're selling today".

It's not the biggest news..... (1)

BlameFate (564908) | more than 12 years ago | (#3471499)

The biggest news is this :

Jaguar Server: Net Install and Net Boot support. Every single server can install off of that. Built in Open Directory (LDAP). Server-optimized Java Virtual Machine.

Jobs: "A week from tomorrow there'll be some news on the server front." May 14th: Apple introducing a dedicated server, rack mount model.

Apple Big Iron

MacOS 9 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3471501)

I never liked OS9because I could not play my favorite game, DOOM. I can play it on Linus however. It is a fun game in which you run through a maze and shoot evil monsters and bad humans. And the humans say "hey! Hey!" in slo- motion when you shoot them. They are fat and scary. Also there are pink demon monsters that look like the one in that bugs bunny cartoon. DOOM is my favorite game and I p;lay it on my Linus beowulf clusters exclusivveley.

There hasn't been any other game like DOOM ever, where you are running through a maze shooting things. DOOOM was the last kind of game in whichyou did that because people who make game s are super smart and they are always thinking of new things to program in to the games. It is a very scary game DOOOm, the best one ever!
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