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Salon on Video Games and Free Speech

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the e-ticket-to-the-slippery-slope dept.

Censorship 283

EyesWideOpen writes: "There is an article at Salon that covers a U.S. District Judge's ruling that computer games don't deserve First Amendment protection. The ruling is in response to The Interactive Digital Software Association's request for the dismissal of an ordinance that requires parental consent before children under 17 can buy or play violent or sexually explicit video games. From the Salon article: 'From his ruling, [US District Judge] Limbaugh appears to believe that no amount of contextual information, or additional narrative, in a game is enough to make it a work of art or expression worthy of the name 'free speech.'' The judge's deliberations were based in part on his review of four games: 'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'."

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An open letter to Hemos from Slashdot users (-1, Offtopic)

TheReverand (95620) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472883)

Dear Hemos,

Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?

See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.

Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.

I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.

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Thankyou for your time.

Re:An open letter to Hemos from Slashdot users (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472906)

According to Microsoft, they can produce much better software than any open source effort. They have claimed that open source software doesn't receive as much scrutiny as their own software does. Make them prove it. Tell them to fix their bugs.

Re:An open letter to Hemos from Slashdot users (-1)

IAgreeWithThisPost (550896) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472910)

preach on brother. I was about set you as foe, as the old +1 long posts workaround still works. But it's just a band aid for a greater problem. It does not stop Ac's or new accounts

Re:An open letter to Hemos from Slashdot users (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472924)

THIS POST LOOKS FINE IN MOZILLA! If you choose to use IE you get the worm! Long live the Lizard!

Mike Cho

MOD PARENT DOWN!!!

Re:An open letter to Hemos from Slashdot users (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472926)

wide pages are boring, I want long pages, really long pages,

are you listening trolls?

Re:An open letter to Hemos from Slashdot users (-1, Offtopic)

mikosullivan (320993) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473029)

Hey, what's your problem? Don't you want breadth to your conversation as well as depth?

(Yes, I'm getting really wide pages too.)

A wide page limerick (-1, Offtopic)

mikosullivan (320993) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473049)

There once was a man from Japan
Whose /. posts did not scan
When people asked why
He would simply reply
Maybe it's because for each posting I suddenly remember the point of what I was trying to say and instead of going back and correcting the post which would involve a lot of editing and retyping and other boring stuff like that I try to fit as many words on the last line as I possibly can.

Re:An open letter to Hemos from Slashdot users (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473028)

We wouldn't need a workaround
if it weren't for fucks like
you widening the pages in the
first place.

Re:An open letter to Hemos from Slashdot users (-1)

Grape Smuggler (569838) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473191)

What kind of dumb-assed logic is that?

BTW, learn how to format your text, retard.

first amendment (3, Informative)

dirvish (574948) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472885)

You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?

Re:first amendment (2, Informative)

Aexia (517457) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472949)

Stores, like movies theatres, may deny access to minors. However, laws cannot mandate that they do so.

Unfortunately, we're living in Amerikkka these days. Computer games? They're just funny pictures on a screen!

And the judge's choice of games is particularly laughable. It's like judging the artistic content of the entire movie industry by the "standards" of Payback, Debbie Does Dallas and Armageddon.

Re:first amendment (1)

jratcliffe (208809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473023)

Sure, laws can prohibit that stores deny access to minors! Car dealerships are prohibited from selling cars to persons under 18 (no right to contract), and gun dealers sure as heck can't just sell Glocks to any 13-year-old that walks in the door. We prohibit stores from engaging in transactions with minors all the time.

Re:first amendment (2)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473064)

Gah? Car dealerships can sell cars to anyone, AFAIK. They just don't WANT to because they can't enforce the contract against minors to the degree that they'd want to. (the minor can return the car for a refund, less wear and tear at any time prior to his majority, IIRC)

I seem to recall a lot of minors in high school owning cars. Typically having to pay cash up front because no one wants to do business with them otherwise, but buying them all the same.

Re:first amendment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473181)

1. car dealerships can sell to anyone they plaease, but anyone under 18 is not obligated by any contract they sign, so unless they paid up front they probably wouldnt.

2. selling guns and selling video games are 2 different things...not being able to buy a gun because you are under age does not restrict your free speech, it is a protection of society issue...i dont know of anyone being killed by a video game purchase (although i guess you could use the cd as a projectile and maime someone)

Re:first amendment (1)

martyn s (444964) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473187)

Well, I think he's talking about the laws which apply to freedom of expression, and not the laws requiring a license to drive.

Re:first amendment (1)

dirvish (574948) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473098)

I would really prefer that there was no law, but as it is minors really don't have any rights and denying them access to some video games probably doesn't violate any laws.

I disagree completely with the judge's ruling that video games don't deserve first amendment protection...that is ridiculous. Video games are unquestionably "a work of art or expression worthy of the name 'free speech.'".

Re:first amendment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473104)

Stores, like movies theatres, may deny access to minors. However, laws cannot mandate that they do so.
>>>>>

Tell that to the judge. Even so, it's not like there isn't precident for protecting minors from things a community deems "obscene" ... You cannot (legally) buy porn as a minor, right?

lame filter angers me (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472999)

first amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
by dirvish (threefs AT 3fingersalute DOT net) on Monday May 06, @05:33PM (#3472885)
(User #first amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
by dirvish (threefs AT 3fingersalute DOT net) on Monday May 06, @05:33PM (#3472885)
(User #574948 Info | http://3fingersalute.net/)
You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:first amendment by Aexia (Score:2) Monday May 06, @05:41PM

nice picks (Score:1)
by Kunta Kinte on Monday May 06, @05:35PM (#3472904)
(User #323399 Info)
'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.

with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Game selection (Score:2, Interesting)
by delphin42 on Monday May 06, @05:36PM (#3472912)
(User #556929 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (Score:2)
by ColGraff (maron1@ m i n dspring.com) on Monday May 06, @05:39PM (#3472944)
(User #454761 Info | http://slashdot.org/~colgraff/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday March 27, @06:24PM)
If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? by FortKnox (Score:1) Monday May 06, @05:43PM

Let me guess.. (Score:1)
by Disevidence (prtford.bigpond@net@au) on Monday May 06, @05:40PM (#3472948)
(User #576586 Info)
The Judge's first name was Rush?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

1 reply beneath your current threshold.

Planescape: Torment (Score:2)
by eddy on Monday May 06, @05:42PM (#3472957)
(User #18759 Info | http://gazonk.org/~eloj/)
Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
by Telastyn on Monday May 06, @05:43PM (#3472969)
(User #206146 Info)
Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.

He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).

IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Lack of Knowledge (Score:2)
by Apreche on Monday May 06, @05:44PM (#3472975)
(User #239272 Info | http://www.rit.edu/~slr2777/)
removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.

I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

not so (Score:2)
by Lord Omlette (ajain@@@digink...com) on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472976)
(User #124579 Info | http://www.omlettesoft.com/)
It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Go ahead and mod me down (Score:2)
by TheReverand on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472982)
(User #95620 Info | http://127.126.125.124/)
Dear Hemos,

Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?

See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.

Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.

I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.

http://www.iamfuckingpissedoffnowgit / /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk / /abcdefmfighyiqxjklmonopqrosoyotuvwxoyqwertyuiov / /sdfghjklqewiuznmbjadzmcloeuirquakndsflksjdflkas / /fskdfasiewurznmcvweroiqewrnamdnzcvuowieramnfkas / /dfhzuxcihskjrnakjzkjcxbviusayrkajsfzxncvizudyri / /bakdnfbzkcvhgiuegriweramdnfzxlcvueirhamdnzkciue / /jranbsdmfzcowierandmfxzncbkjhfabsdifuweajzkxcuw / /erhasdfzxncvkjdfyiuzxcnvsikirkajeajsbdfkzxbuyef / /rahsdjbzcvxmnvcuweyriausdnfzxbcvkwueyrajnbvkjxg / /iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkfbhuie / /asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyhweiua / /dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxnsjkld / /fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgneaksjo / /nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixucoqweiu / /pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznxmbouw / /rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkweruyabz / /bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbiuyqwe / /kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfnbzxcb / /heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeuryaksj / /znkxcvjhwierahsfzkxhhidufhsakjbzxjchiwueryqagsd / /kjhaksdfnbakwreyhaisknfjkzxbcvkoiqwueraskfzxcbk / /nlkwejrasoidjfxzlknvlkwjeroiasudflknzxlkbjeoiru / /slkdjfzxnmvkljdfawienzxveoriuaskdfjzxcmbnkseuri / /kfjlznxcvksjroeijasdklzjfowierqouasdhfzxncbkjhd / /jsdfljkweoriuasdfkjzxmcnvlkjdowuieraksdflkzxjbo / /werklasdnfmzxclkjewoijasdlfknzlkjwoeirqpweoiasd / /kjzxjvwperaksdjfxzweirjaslkdfzxnclvkjweroiasufd / /zxclkjeworijasdflknzlbkoiwuraksjflknxblkwjerois / /jfweknasdkfjzoxijkenraksjdfoizxjvlknwerlkajsdfo / /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk / /abcdefmfighyiqxjklmonopqrosoyotuvwxoyqwertyuiov / /sdfghjklqewiuznmbjadzmcloeuirquakndsflksjdflkas / /fskdfasiewurznmcvweroiqewrnamdnzcvuowieramnfkas / /dfhzuxcihskjrnakjzkjcxbviusayrkajsfzxncvizudyri / /bakdnfbzkcvhgiuegriweramdnfzxlcvueirhamdnzkciue / /jranbsdmfzcowierandmfxzncbkjhfabsdifuweajzkxcuw / /erhasdfzxncvkjdfyiuzxcnvsikirkajeajsbdfkzxbuyef / /rahsdjbzcvxmnvcuweyriausdnfzxbcvkwueyrajnbvkjxg / /iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkfbhuie / /asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyhweiua / /dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxnsjkld / /fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgneaksjo / /nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixucoqweiu / /pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznxmbouw / /rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkweruyabz / /bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbiuyqwe / /kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfnbzxcb / /heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeuryaksj / /fzbxcvkxlkcnvmndskfjwehaiursdfzjxnbjkdfhskdflas / /yroausdfzxmncvskeyiqozsjhfasdfoiwueranmcnzbkjhd / /ueafhksjfwheuirasdjhbzxiuewjhasmdnkfzxciurhaskj / /roiquwermcvkhiruhasdkjfnzxkjyeiuahsdbzxckjvopwe / /uqweuirjhvxzckjhweriuasydfoiqurnmxckvhweruiahdj / /znkxcvjhwierahsfzkxhhidufhsakjbzxjchiwueryqagsd / /kjhaksdfnbakwreyhaisknfjkzxbcvkoiqwueraskfzxcbk / /nlkwejrasoidjfxzlknvlkwjeroiasudflknzxlkbjeoiru / /slkdjfzxnmvkljdfawienzxveoriuaskdfjzxcmbnkseuri / /kfjlznxcvksjroeijasdklzjfowierqouasdhfzxncbkjhd / /jsdfljkweoriuasdfkjzxmcnvlkjdowuieraksdflkzxjbo / /werklasdnfmzxclkjewoijasdlfknzlkjwoeirqpweoiasd / /kjzxjvwperaksdjfxzweirjaslkdfzxnclvkjweroiasufd / /zxclkjeworijasdflknzlbkoiwuraksjflknxblkwjerois / /jfweknasdkfjzoxijkenraksjdfoizxjvlknwerlkaj
Read the rest of this comment...

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

12 replies beneath your current threshold.

574948 Info | http://3fingersalute.net/)
You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:first amendment by Aexia (Score:2) Monday May 06, @05:41PM

nice picks (Score:1)
by Kunta Kinte on Monday May 06, @05:35PM (#3472904)
(User #323399 Info)
'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.

with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Game selection (Score:2, Interesting)
by delphin42 on Monday May 06, @05:36PM (#3472912)
(User #556929 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (Score:2)
by ColGraff (maron1@ m i n dspring.com) on Monday May 06, @05:39PM (#3472944)
(User #454761 Info | http://slashdot.org/~colgraff/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday March 27, @06:24PM)
If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? by FortKnox (Score:1) Monday May 06, @05:43PM

Let me guess.. (Score:1)
by Disevidence (prtford.bigpond@net@au) on Monday May 06, @05:40PM (#3472948)
(User #576586 Info)
The Judge's first name was Rush?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

1 reply beneath your current threshold.

Planescape: Torment (Score:2)
by eddy on Monday May 06, @05:42PM (#3472957)
(User #18759 Info | http://gazonk.org/~eloj/)
Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
by Telastyn on Monday May 06, @05:43PM (#3472969)
(User #206146 Info)
Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.

He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).

IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Lack of Knowledge (Score:2)
by Apreche on Monday May 06, @05:44PM (#3472975)
(User #239272 Info | http://www.rit.edu/~slr2777/)
removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.

I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

not so (Score:2)
by Lord Omlette (ajain@@@digink...com) on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472976)
(User #124579 Info | http://www.omlettesoft.com/)
It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Go ahead and mod me down (Score:2)
by TheReverand on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472982)
(User #95620 Info | http://127.126.125.124/)
Dear Hemos,

Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?

See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.

Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.

I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.

http://www.iamfuckingpissedoffnowgit / /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk / /abcdefmfighyiqxjklmonopqrosoyotuvwxoyqwertyuiov / /sdfghjklqewiuznmbjadzmcloeuirquakndsflksjdflkas / /fskdfasiewurznmcvweroiqewrnamdnzcvuowieramnfkas / /dfhzuxcihskjrnakjzkjcxbviusayrkajsfzxncvizudyri / /bakdnfbzkcvhgiuegriweramdnfzxlcvueirhamdnzkciue / /jranbsdmfzcowierandmfxzncbkjhfabsdifuweajzkxcuw / /erhasdfzxncvkjdfyiuzxcnvsikirkajeajsbdfkzxbuyef / /rahsdjbzcvxmnvcuweyriausdnfzxbcvkwueyrajnbvkjxg / /iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkfbhuie / /asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyhweiua / /dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxnsjkld / /fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgneaksjo / /nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixucoqweiu / /pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznxmbouw / /rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkweruyabz / /bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbiuyqwe / /kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfnbzxcb / /heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeuryaksj / /znkxcvjhwierahsfzkxhhidufhsakjbzxjchiwueryqagsd / /kjhaksdfnbakwreyhaisknfjkzxbcvkoiqwueraskfzxcbk / /nlkwejrasoidjfxzlknvlkwjeroiasudflknzxlkbjeoiru / /slkdjfzxnmvkljdfawienzxveoriuaskdfjzxcmbnkseuri / /kfjlznxcvksjroeijasdklzjfowierqouasdhfzxncbkjhd / /jsdfljkweoriuasdfkjzxmcnvlkjdowuieraksdflkzxjbo / /werklasdnfmzxclkjewoijasdlfknzlkjwoeirqpweoiasd / /kjzxjvwperaksdjfxzweirjaslkdfzxnclvkjweroiasufd / /zxclkjeworijasdflknzlbkoiwuraksjflknxblkwjerois / /jfweknasdkfjzoxijkenraksjdfoizxjvlknwerlkajsdfo / /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk / /abcdefmfighyiqxjklmonopqrosoyotuvwxoyqwertyuiov / /sdfghjklqewiuznmbjadzmcloeuirquakndsflksjdflkas / /fskdfasiewurznmcvweroiqewrnamdnzcvuowieramnfkas / /dfhzuxcihskjrnakjzkjcxbviusayrkajsfzxncvizudyri / /bakdnfbzkcvhgiuegriweramdnfzxlcvueirhamdnzkciue / /jranbsdmfzcowierandmfxzncbkjhfabsdifuweajzkxcuw / /erhasdfzxncvkjdfyiuzxcnvsikirkajeajsbdfkzxbuyef / /rahsdjbzcvxmnvcuweyriausdnfzxbcvkwueyrajnbvkjxg / /iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkfbhuie / /asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyhweiua / /dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxnsjkld / /fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgneaksjo / /nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixucoqweiu / /pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznxmbouw / /rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkweruyabz / /bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbiuyqwe / /kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfnbzxcb / /heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeuryaksj / /fzbxcvkxlkcnvmndskfjwehaiursdfzjxnbjkdfhskdflas / /yroausdfzxmncvskeyiqozsjhfasdfoiwueranmcnzbkjhd / /ueafhksjfwheuirasdjhbzxiuewjhasmdnkfzxciurhaskj / /roiquwermcvkhiruhasdkjfnzxkjyeiuahsdbzxckjvopwe / /uqweuirjhvxzckjhweriuasydfoiqurnmxckvhweruiahdj / /znkxcvjhwierahsfzkxhhidufhsakjbzxjchiwueryqagsd / /kjhaksdfnbakwreyhaisknfjkzxbcvkoiqwueraskfzxcbk / /nlkwejrasoidjfxzlknvlkwjeroiasudflknzxlkbjeoiru / /slkdjfzxnmvkljdfawienzxveoriuaskdfjzxcmbnkseuri / /kfjlznxcvksjroeijasdklzjfowierqouasdhfzxncbkjhd / /jsdfljkweoriuasdfkjzxmcnvlkjdowuieraksdflkzxjbo / /werklasdnfmzxclkjewoijasdlfknzlkjwoeirqpweoiasd / /kjzxjvwperaksdjfxzweirjaslkdfzxnclvkjweroiasufd / /zxclkjeworijasdflknzlbkoiwuraksjflknxblkwjerois / /jfweknasdkfjzoxijkenraksjdfoizxjvlknwerlkaj
Read the rest of this comment...

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

12 replies beneath your current threshold.

first amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
by dirvish (threefs AT 3fingersalute DOT net) on Monday May 06, @05:33PM (#3472885)
(User #574948 Info | http://3fingersalute.net/)
You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:first amendment by Aexia (Score:2) Monday May 06, @05:41PM

nice picks (Score:1)
by Kunta Kinte on Monday May 06, @05:35PM (#3472904)
(User #323399 Info)
'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.

with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Game selection (Score:2, Interesting)
by delphin42 on Monday May 06, @05:36PM (#3472912)
(User #556929 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (Score:2)
by ColGraff (maron1@ m i n dspring.com) on Monday May 06, @05:39PM (#3472944)
(User #454761 Info | http://slashdot.org/~colgraff/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday March 27, @06:24PM)
If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? by FortKnox (Score:1) Monday May 06, @05:43PM

Let me guess.. (Score:1)
by Disevidence (prtford.bigpond@net@au) on Monday May 06, @05:40PM (#3472948)
(User #576586 Info)
The Judge's first name was Rush?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

1 reply beneath your current threshold.

Planescape: Torment (Score:2)
by eddy on Monday May 06, @05:42PM (#3472957)
(User #18759 Info | http://gazonk.org/~eloj/)
Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
by Telastyn on Monday May 06, @05:43PM (#3472969)
(User #206146 Info)
Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.

He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).

IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Lack of Knowledge (Score:2)
by Apreche on Monday May 06, @05:44PM (#3472975)
(User #239272 Info | http://www.rit.edu/~slr2777/)
removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.

I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

not so (Score:2)
by Lord Omlette (ajain@@@digink...com) on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472976)
(User #124579 Info | http://www.omlettesoft.com/)
It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Go ahead and mod me down (Score:2)
by TheReverand on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472982)
(User #95620 Info | http://127.126.125.124/)
Dear Hemos,

Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?

See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.

Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.

I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.

http://www.iamfuckingpissedoffnowgit / /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk / /abcdefmfighyiqxjklmonopqrosoyotuvwxoyqwertyuiov / /sdfghjklqewiuznmbjadzmcloeuirquakndsflksjdflkas / /fskdfasiewurznmcvweroiqewrnamdnzcvuowieramnfkas / /dfhzuxcihskjrnakjzkjcxbviusayrkajsfzxncvizudyri / /bakdnfbzkcvhgiuegriweramdnfzxlcvueirhamdnzkciue / /jranbsdmfzcowierandmfxzncbkjhfabsdifuweajzkxcuw / /erhasdfzxncvkjdfyiuzxcnvsikirkajeajsbdfkzxbuyef / /rahsdjbzcvxmnvcuweyriausdnfzxbcvkwueyrajnbvkjxg / /iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkfbhuie / /asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyhweiua / /dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxnsjkld / /fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgneaksjo / /nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixucoqweiu / /pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznxmbouw / /rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkweruyabz / /bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbiuyqwe / /kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfnbzxcb / /heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeuryaksj / /znkxcvjhwierahsfzkxhhidufhsakjbzxjchiwueryqagsd / /kjhaksdfnbakwreyhaisknfjkzxbcvkoiqwueraskfzxcbk / /nlkwejrasoidjfxzlknvlkwjeroiasudflknzxlkbjeoiru / /slkdjfzxnmvkljdfawienzxveoriuaskdfjzxcmbnkseuri / /kfjlznxcvksjroeijasdklzjfowierqouasdhfzxncbkjhd / /jsdfljkweoriuasdfkjzxmcnvlkjdowuieraksdflkzxjbo / /werklasdnfmzxclkjewoijasdlfknzlkjwoeirqpweoiasd / /kjzxjvwperaksdjfxzweirjaslkdfzxnclvkjweroiasufd / /zxclkjeworijasdflknzlbkoiwuraksjflknxblkwjerois / /jfweknasdkfjzoxijkenraksjdfoizxjvlknwerlkajsdfo / /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk / /abcdefmfighyiqxjklmonopqrosoyotuvwxoyqwertyuiov / /sdfghjklqewiuznmbjadzmcloeuirquakndsflksjdflkas / /fskdfasiewurznmcvweroiqewrnamdnzcvuowieramnfkas / /dfhzuxcihskjrnakjzkjcxbviusayrkajsfzxncvizudyri / /bakdnfbzkcvhgiuegriweramdnfzxlcvueirhamdnzkciue / /jranbsdmfzcowierandmfxzncbkjhfabsdifuweajzkxcuw / /erhasdfzxncvkjdfyiuzxcnvsikirkajeajsbdfkzxbuyef / /rahsdjbzcvxmnvcuweyriausdnfzxbcvkwueyrajnbvkjxg / /iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkfbhuie / /asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyhweiua / /dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxnsjkld / /fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgneaksjo / /nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixucoqweiu / /pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznxmbouw / /rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkweruyabz / /bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbiuyqwe / /kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfnbzxcb / /heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeuryaksj / /fzbxcvkxlkcnvmndskfjwehaiursdfzjxnbjkdfhskdflas / /yroausdfzxmncvskeyiqozsjhfasdfoiwueranmcnzbkjhd / /ueafhksjfwheuirasdjhbzxiuewjhasmdnkfzxciurhaskj / /roiquwermcvkhiruhasdkjfnzxkjyeiuahsdbzxckjvopwe / /uqweuirjhvxzckjhweriuasydfoiqurnmxckvhweruiahdj / /znkxcvjhwierahsfzkxhhidufhsakjbzxjchiwueryqagsd / /kjhaksdfnbakwreyhaisknfjkzxbcvkoiqwueraskfzxcbk / /nlkwejrasoidjfxzlknvlkwjeroiasudflknzxlkbjeoiru / /slkdjfzxnmvkljdfawienzxveoriuaskdfjzxcmbnkseuri / /kfjlznxcvksjroeijasdklzjfowierqouasdhfzxncbkjhd / /jsdfljkweoriuasdfkjzxmcnvlkjdowuieraksdflkzxjbo / /werklasdnfmzxclkjewoijasdlfknzlkjwoeirqpweoiasd / /kjzxjvwperaksdjfxzweirjaslkdfzxnclvkjweroiasufd / /zxclkjeworijasdflknzlbkoiwuraksjflknxblkwjerois / /jfweknasdkfjzoxijkenraksjdfoizxjvlknwerlkaj
Read the rest of this comment...

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12 replies beneath your current threshold.

first amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
by dirvish (threefs AT 3fingersalute DOT net) on Monday May 06, @05:33PM (#3472885)
(User #574948 Info | http://3fingersalute.net/)
You can deny access of violent games to underage people without violating the first amendment can't you?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:first amendment by Aexia (Score:2) Monday May 06, @05:41PM

nice picks (Score:1)
by Kunta Kinte on Monday May 06, @05:35PM (#3472904)
(User #323399 Info)
'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.

with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Game selection (Score:2, Interesting)
by delphin42 on Monday May 06, @05:36PM (#3472912)
(User #556929 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (Score:2)
by ColGraff (maron1@ m i n dspring.com) on Monday May 06, @05:39PM (#3472944)
(User #454761 Info | http://slashdot.org/~colgraff/journal | Last Journal: Wednesday March 27, @06:24PM)
If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? by FortKnox (Score:1) Monday May 06, @05:43PM

Let me guess.. (Score:1)
by Disevidence (prtford.bigpond@net@au) on Monday May 06, @05:40PM (#3472948)
(User #576586 Info)
The Judge's first name was Rush?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

1 reply beneath your current threshold.

Planescape: Torment (Score:2)
by eddy on Monday May 06, @05:42PM (#3472957)
(User #18759 Info | http://gazonk.org/~eloj/)
Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Devil's Advocate (Score:2)
by Telastyn on Monday May 06, @05:43PM (#3472969)
(User #206146 Info)
Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.

He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).

IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Lack of Knowledge (Score:2)
by Apreche on Monday May 06, @05:44PM (#3472975)
(User #239272 Info | http://www.rit.edu/~slr2777/)
removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.

I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

not so (Score:2)
by Lord Omlette (ajain@@@digink...com) on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472976)
(User #124579 Info | http://www.omlettesoft.com/)
It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Go ahead and mod me down (Score:2)
by TheReverand on Monday May 06, @05:45PM (#3472982)
(User #95620 Info | http://127.126.125.124/)
Dear Hemos,

Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?

See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.

Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.

I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.

http://www.iamfuckingpissedoffnowgit / /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk / /abcdefmfighyiqxjklmonopqrosoyotuvwxoyqwertyuiov / /sdfghjklqewiuznmbjadzmcloeuirquakndsflksjdflkas / /fskdfasiewurznmcvweroiqewrnamdnzcvuowieramnfkas / /dfhzuxcihskjrnakjzkjcxbviusayrkajsfzxncvizudyri / /bakdnfbzkcvhgiuegriweramdnfzxlcvueirhamdnzkciue / /jranbsdmfzcowierandmfxzncbkjhfabsdifuweajzkxcuw / /erhasdfzxncvkjdfyiuzxcnvsikirkajeajsbdfkzxbuyef / /rahsdjbzcvxmnvcuweyriausdnfzxbcvkwueyrajnbvkjxg / /iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkfbhuie / /asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyhweiua / /dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxnsjkld / /fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgneaksjo / /nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixucoqweiu / /pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznxmbouw / /rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkweruyabz / /bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbiuyqwe / /kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfnbzxcb / /heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeuryaksj / /znkxcvjhwierahsfzkxhhidufhsakjbzxjchiwueryqagsd / /kjhaksdfnbakwreyhaisknfjkzxbcvkoiqwueraskfzxcbk / /nlkwejrasoidjfxzlknvlkwjeroiasudflknzxlkbjeoiru / /slkdjfzxnmvkljdfawienzxveoriuaskdfjzxcmbnkseuri / /kfjlznxcvksjroeijasdklzjfowierqouasdhfzxncbkjhd / /jsdfljkweoriuasdfkjzxmcnvlkjdowuieraksdflkzxjbo / /werklasdnfmzxclkjewoijasdlfknzlkjwoeirqpweoiasd / /kjzxjvwperaksdjfxzweirjaslkdfzxnclvkjweroiasufd / /zxclkjeworijasdflknzlbkoiwuraksjflknxblkwjerois / /jfweknasdkfjzoxijkenraksjdfoizxjvlknwerlkajsdfo / /ooieiabdcdjsvbkeldfogjhiyeeejkagclmieooionoepdk / /abcdefmfighyiqxjklmonopqrosoyotuvwxoyqwertyuiov / /sdfghjklqewiuznmbjadzmcloeuirquakndsflksjdflkas / /fskdfasiewurznmcvweroiqewrnamdnzcvuowieramnfkas / /dfhzuxcihskjrnakjzkjcxbviusayrkajsfzxncvizudyri / /bakdnfbzkcvhgiuegriweramdnfzxlcvueirhamdnzkciue / /jranbsdmfzcowierandmfxzncbkjhfabsdifuweajzkxcuw / /erhasdfzxncvkjdfyiuzxcnvsikirkajeajsbdfkzxbuyef / /rahsdjbzcvxmnvcuweyriausdnfzxbcvkwueyrajnbvkjxg / /iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkfbhuie / /asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyhweiua / /dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxnsjkld / /fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgneaksjo / /nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixucoqweiu / /pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznxmbouw / /rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkweruyabz / /bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbiuyqwe / /kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfnbzxcb / /heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeuryaksj / /fzbxcvkxlkcnvmndskfjwehaiursdfzjxnbjkdfhskdflas / /yroausdfzxmncvskeyiqozsjhfasdfoiwueranmcnzbkjhd / /ueafhksjfwheuirasdjhbzxiuewjhasmdnkfzxciurhaskj / /roiquwermcvkhiruhasdkjfnzxkjyeiuahsdbzxckjvopwe / /uqweuirjhvxzckjhweriuasydfoiqurnmxckvhweruiahdj / /znkxcvjhwierahsfzkxhhidufhsakjbzxjchiwueryqagsd / /kjhaksdfnbakwreyhaisknfjkzxbcvkoiqwueraskfzxcbk / /nlkwejrasoidjfxzlknvlkwjeroiasudflknzxlkbjeoiru / /slkdjfzxnmvkljdfawienzxveoriuaskdfjzxcmbnkseuri / /kfjlznxcvksjroeijasdklzjfowierqouasdhfzxncbkjhd / /jsdfljkweoriuasdfkjzxmcnvlkjdowuieraksdflkzxjbo / /werklasdnfmzxclkjewoijasdlfknzlkjwoeirqpweoiasd / /kjzxjvwperaksdjfxzweirjaslkdfzxnclvkjweroiasufd / /zxclkjeworijasdflknzlbkoiwuraksjflknxblkwjerois / /jfweknasdkfjzoxijkenraksjdfoizxjvlknwerlkaj
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12 replies beneath your current threshold.

Fair and well informed (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473108)

I personally believe the judge was fair and informed. This can be seen by his
A. Wrong use of 2 of the titles
"Mortal Combat" and "Resident of Evil Creek"
B. Only looked at 4 titles.
The judge didn't play the games. He was shown video clips ( More likely to be the gory ones such as a MK Fatality ) and of the games he did see all 4 were basically the Gory ones in the industry. He didn't see Final Fantasy. He didn't see Metal of Honor. He didn't see any of the other more robust and story/plot/idealistic driven games.

This is similar to judging all movies value as Free Speech based on

Nightmare on Elm St.
Halloween
Friday the 13th
Texas Chainsaw Massacre

Anybody can see how ridiculous a judgement based on such a small set of evidence is. However, I do believe that the Gaming industry should have done a better job. Why didn't he see anything else?!? Why did he only see the "plots"

Weee! (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472886)

Take that you commie fags! Hey that reminds me of a Charlie Daniels song... Uneasy Rider.

I missed three in a row :( (-1)

IAgreeWithThisPost (550896) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472890)

linuz zealots are my hoes.

PWP are shit. Kill all PWP trolls

Re:I missed three in a row :( (-1)

anonymous cowfart (576665) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473065)

I Agree With This Post

Let the whining begin! (0)

The Turd Report (527733) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472903)

Start bitching about how this means that no one will be able to buy Tetris if this is alloewd to happen below.

nice picks (5, Funny)

Kunta Kinte (323399) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472904)

'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'.

with that list I'm suprised he didn't make video games illegal.

Game selection (4, Interesting)

delphin42 (556929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472912)

Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.

Re:Game selection (1)

kpansky (577361) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473022)

From the looks of it, a rather narrow cross-section of games were taken in order to ensure a victory. If you just selected pornographic movies and "Slaughterhouse", presented them before a judge and asked, "Should these be protected as free speech as guaranteed by the first amendment?" the judge would most likely respond negatively since they have very little redeeming qualities.

However, if you also placed movies like "Schindler's List" or any other movie that obviously does contain content that is easily recognized as protected speech in the sampling as well, the judge would be compelled to answer affirmatively.

This seems to be case that was decided on too narrow a sampling to be applied broadly without impeding on the usage of first amendment rights. It wont set a precedent by being upheld on appeal (as long as the defense doesn't screw the pooch).

"vilolent or sexually explicit" (5, Interesting)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473083)

At least read the slashdot tagline!

...an ordinance that requires parental consent before children under 17 can buy or play violent or sexually explicit video games...

Final Fantasy whatever is neither violent nor sexually explicit. Neither is Black and White. Nor Myst. Nor Civilization. Nor any of the other games that were mentioned to defend "video games" as protected speech.

Doom, Mortal Kombat, and Resident Evil are famous games for their violence. And they're also all three lacking in *speech*. They're great marvels of techonlogy (for their times) and gameplay (for even now, in some ways), but they're not necessarily worthy of judicial protection.

The ruling isn't saying "all games aren't speech." It's saying "game's aren't always protected speech."

Heck, I mean--NO form of expression is always protected speech. If I slander someone in a song, I'm still civilly / criminally liable. If I write a novel that's sexually evocative, I'm still regulated as porn.

I for one and quite happy with "mature" video games being regulated as "adult content." Especially when the law rests on the permission of the parents, who in my day were the ones actually purchasing the games anyway.

Re:"vilolent or sexually explicit" (1)

Hamshrew (20248) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473140)

Planescape: Torment.

Violent, RPG, TONS of plot, a work of art, sexual situations... that would be good.

Re:"vilolent or sexually explicit" (1)

qslack (239825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473165)

Final Fantasy whatever is neither violent nor sexually explicit. Neither is Black and White. Nor Myst. Nor Civilization. Nor any of the other games that were mentioned to defend "video games" as protected speech.

Final Fantasy isn't violent? Last time I checked, and I've been playing the series since FF6 (US) first came out, your objective is to kill. Kill. Kill. At first it might seem like an innocent journey into a cave, but you suddenly find your screen twirling into oblivion as battle music begins playing.

THEN THE KILLING STARTS. In all of my playing, I've been forced to fight little girls (Relm), old men (Strago), mothers and royalty (Queen Alexandra), octupi (Octos), bumblebees (FF4/J), young female ninjas (Yuffie), dogs (Red XIII), etc. How can you say that Final Fantasy is not a bloody, murderous game?

:)

hey recipe troll (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472919)

I need a good cous cous salad type recipe.

Can you hook it up?

COUS COUS COMPLIMENTS OF RECIPETROLL (-1)

RecipeTroll (572375) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473174)

COUS COUS WITH GARBANZO BEANS, PRUNES AND ALMONDS
RecipeTroll likes to serve the Candied Butternut Squash atop the couscous.


1/4 cup olive oil
4 cups chopped onions
1 15-ounce can garbanzo beans (chickpeas), drained
1 cup chopped pitted prunes (about 6 ounces)
3 cups canned low-salt chicken broth
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
2 cups couscous (about 12 ounces)
1/3 cup chopped fresh mint
1/2 cup slivered almonds, toasted


Heat oil in heavy large pot over medium-high heat. Add onions and sauté until very tender and beginning to brown, about 25 minutes. Add garbanzo beans and prunes and stir 1 minute. Add broth and cinnamon and bring to boil. Mix in couscous. Cover pot; remove from heat. Let stand 15 minutes.
Using fork, fluff couscous. Mix in mint and half of almonds. Season with salt and pepper. Mound couscous in bowl. Sprinkle with remaining almonds.


Makes 6 servings.

Check out the KKK homepage. Notice the meta-tags (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472920)

html
head
meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
title New Page 1 /title
meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0"
meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document"
/head

frameset rows="163,*"
frame name="banner" scrolling="no" noresize target="contents" src="new_page_4.htm"
frameset cols="168,*"
frame name="contents" target="main" src="intro.htm"
frame name="main" src="hhhhhhhhhello.htm" target="_top"
/frameset
noframes
body

p This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them. /p

/body
/noframes
/frameset

/html

If you've ever played a _Resident Evil_ game... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472927)

... you need to read fridays Penny Arcade [penny-arcade.com] . Its about time someone started thinking of the "prior to zombie infestation time" on resident evil games (or any kind of game that requires odd keys and combinations to move around). Think about it. The lab in which the infestation starts happens to be the one in the deepest part of the installation that requires finding keys scattered all over the base, and, if you worked in that lab, you'd have to leave for work 2 hours early to get all the keys to get in. Honestly, what kind of scientist would put up with such an overly secure work environment? What if something goes wrong? Get out? Hardly!!
Well, I guess that would explain why the infestation started in that lab. No one had enough time to get out, nor had enough time to get in there to destroy it before it got out of control. I'd think that if I had a lab that ran overly exotic and extremely dangerous experiments under the radar of the local government, I'd use a little more planning....

Not just RE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472959)

That's a problem in most games out there today. It comes from two different forces duking it out during the design of the game itself, realism and playability. Like the invisible hand pushes supply and demand around in economic thought, the game developer must push the point between those two competing forces.

Every time I, or someone I know, works on a game we see those tradeoffs. Sure, you could require the character to pee after drinking, with stat drops if they hold it for too long... but that sucks away playability. Sure, you could require them to drink in the first place, but who wants to deal with finding food and water all the time? Notice how most RPG's dropped that, while that was the standard in the 80's. Most RPG's now have food be an extra health bonus, like the fighting games from the 80's.

If we want to take this to an extreme, look at death. Most games give the player 'lives', while some really do make you restore from a saved game if you die. Some games allow you to take a few bullets before you die, while others such as Rainbow Six drop you after a well-placed bullet to the head, hero or not.

So do you set up the secret underground research facility as realistic running system with all the details that not every player will appriciate, or do you scatter keys about in an unrealistic fashion to create tension and challenge for the player?

Re:If you've ever played a _Resident Evil_ game... (1)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473100)

Yeah, this was a complaint that my friends and I used to have about Marathon on the Mac back in the mid-90's. Buttons would be placed on pillars and would _have_ to be _shot_ from afar just to be triggered.

We joked about people not wanting to go to use the fax machine because it would involve jumping around in hard vacuum, shooting and switches and avoiding pools of molten metal that didn't even have goddamn safety rails.

I don't really buy that they're necessary elements for an interesting game. Max Payne had a fairly realistic environment and was alright. OTOH, I remember OSHA being a deadly villain in Hard Hat Mack ;)

Sex (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472930)

# /usr/bin/bash
mknod penis 459043 545
mount vagina
cat /dev/semen > vagaina
umount vagina

Re:Sex (-1)

anonymous cowfart (576665) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473147)

Is that geek for "take off clothes, put dick in, blow load, take dick out"

Whatever it is, it's lame.

Just another repeat, folks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472932)

Move on. Nothing (new) to see here.

Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (4, Interesting)

ColGraff (454761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472944)

If this judge had reviewed, say, System Shock 2, or even Half-Life, he might have had a higher opinion of computer gaming. Heck, even Starcraft would have gone a long way towards convincing the judge that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book, and should be entitled to the same rights. So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?

Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472965)

...that games can be as legitimate a story-telling format as any book

How true this is!
Honestly, take a "choose your own adventure" book to the extreme, change the medium, and you have video games.

Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (3, Informative)

Aexia (517457) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473021)

So where did he get the idea to review these specific games?

The four games were on a tape of excerpts submitted by the county of St. Louis(which passed the law). So it's likely all redeeming elements were excised so as to make the games appear as horrible as possible.

I think it's highly questionable he "reviewed" or briefly played the games at all. He couldn't even get the names of the games correctly. "Resident of Evil Creek"? It'd almost be laughable if this wasn't such an important issue.

Re:Did he talk to any "game-literate" people? (2)

Wise Dragon (71071) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473068)

The county gave him those games because those are the games they want to censor.

And frankly, this ruling isn't all that important. It's certain not to last more than a few years in today's political climate.

It should, however, be a wake-up call to game developers. How about less gratuitous violence and more plot? How about more social commentary?

Let me guess.. (2, Funny)

Disevidence (576586) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472948)

The Judge's first name was Rush?

Re:Let me guess.. (0)

Zonekeeper (458060) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472979)

Oh do NOT go there. Just DON'T.

Re:Let me guess.. (2)

malibucreek (253318) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473095)

Actuall, the judge is Rush's brother, I believe. The Limbaughs have been a prominent family in Missouri for some time. It's where Rush spent his early years, on the dole, divorcing wives.

Gee, I consider Rush's show offensive and without social merit--does that mean Rush has no First Amendment rights, too?

Re:Let me guess.. (2)

einstein (10761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473106)

nope, but they are cousins. seriously.
---

Re:Let me guess.. (2, Informative)

Kheldarstl (543640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473110)

No Actually Stephen, Rush's uncle

http://rosecity.net/rush/rushtour.html#briefs

And to quote from the above website...

"Rush's uncle, Stephen N. Limbaugh, Sr. is a federal judge appointed by Ronald Reagan and his first cousin, Stephen N. Limbaugh, Jr. sits on the Missouri Supreme Court."
The Judge in this article is Stephen Limbaugh Sr.

Planescape: Torment (2)

eddy (18759) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472957)

Beyond IF, this title [wischik.com] alone should be able to shoot down insane rulings like this one.

Game selection (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472958)

Who picked the games for the court to review? Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil? How about Final Fantasy X (or just about any other RPG)? Black and White and Medal of Honor were mentioned in the review, but there are tons of games with a lot more content than Mortal Kombat.

Hon shong tr011 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472966)



Tr011 Tr011 Tr011 S*x

Devil's Advocate (2)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472969)

Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.

He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).

IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.

Lack of Knowledge (5, Insightful)

Apreche (239272) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472975)

removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.

I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.

not so (2)

Lord Omlette (124579) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472976)

It was "Resident of Evil Creek". Get it right.

Go ahead and mod me down (-1, Troll)

TheReverand (95620) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472982)

Dear Hemos,

Stop censoring me. I only speak the truth.
Please fix the page widening bug. I am prepared to
sacrifice this account to protest against your "it's
not my fault" attitude. You're happy enough to include
workarounds to fix bugs in Mozilla, why not IE?

See, it was fine so long as only -1 accounts widened
pages. Unfortunately, the behaviour of your co-editor
Michael Simms means we have to browse at -1 to see the
truth, as opposed to what you want us to see.

Just think what would happen if everyone had your
attitude... No workarounds, no interoperability... The
Internet would cease to function. Now grow up or fuck
off.

I am waiting to be modslapped. Those in favour who dare, mod this up as a protest against Hemos' childish behaviour.

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Thankyou for your time.

Re:Go ahead and mod me down (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473050)

Gotta Admin, it's an annoying bug. But the real trick is could it be exploited to do something else unintentionally?

Can't say I support the use of vulgarity though. Especially when clever computer-related terms can relay the same fsck'ing informating without using the word fuck. I mean, how many times do people have to use the word fuck, just to prove a fucking point.

i'm anonymous and i don't give a shiite!

Re:Go ahead and mod me down (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473074)

Damn and I just used my last mod point - too bad I hadnt seen you first, asshole.

Re:Go ahead and mod me down (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473085)

You accuse Hemos of childish behavior and then you have your wonderfully adult page widening crap. It is dickheads like you that make me glad I use a Mac. The bug doesn't exist with the Mac version of IE. Thank god.

Devil's Advocate (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3472990)

Perhaps the judge merely meant/intended by law that games should not explicitly get free speech protection just because they are games. The 4 games listed are pretty thin on plot, storyline and certain types of artistry. The artistry that is shown isn't speech so much as trademarkable/copyrightable "feel" and characters.
He also might believe simply that the speech of games is irrelevant to *his case*. After all, people are free to film porn, but are not free to display it on network TV (in america) or even sell it to minors (in america).
IMO I hope this is struck down with great prejudice by higher courts, as IMO the above mentioned limiting vs minors does as much harm as help and it would be foolish to carry that to more genres.

Score 5, Informative! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472991)

How To Handle A Troll

(Must I? Can I wear gloves? Which brand of disinfectant do you use to clean up and prevent infection Debra? Inquiring minds and all that...SimiMike)

The MOST important rule for handling trolls is not to feed them. You might say, "I don't feed them!" But most of us do even when we don't think we are. So here are some rules for how to not feed the trolls.

1. Learn first to recognize the troll. They are the ones who post flame bait to start a controversy. Generally a search for their posts (such as AOL's QUICK SEARCH, will show they have no other posts or only similar flame bait. Sometimes they have 2 or 3 flamers suddenly on a board...all beginning at the same time, often supporting the other screenname...too stupid to know people will know they are one person of trollbuddies. They are the ones who have the same thing being said to them over and over and over. They are the ones pretending to not understand, or twisting posts in order to continue their trolling dialog. Do not imagine that YOUR response will be the one that will help them to GET IT. Not even if you roll them in glue and punt them into the Clue Dumpster* will they GET IT. They do not want to GET IT, they want to GET YOU. Don't be troll food.

+

N 2

Note: some may need the Clue Landfill... the dumpster just won't be enough.

2. When you realize they are a troll, do not respond to personal comments from them. This is how they hook you back into feeding them! Yea though they toss them to you like gumdrops leading to the witch's ginger bread house, ignore them! Like my buddy says, "Trolls (like Bad Farts) ONLY go away when completely and utterly ignored and no one posts anything on any of their posts...any "fanning of the fumes" just gets them all happy to offend all over again ."

3. Learn to ignore them. You can do it. If you can't, learn to use the filters so you don't even have to SEE their posts. Its quite refreshing, knowing they are starving.

4. Be prepared for them to change names and take a fresh run. Learn to use AOL search to find out if this NEW troll has ever posted before, or if this new troll is a fungus offshoot of the old troll everyone caught on to. Add these new trolls to the filter list.

5. Like my buddy said, "ignore them or they will keep coming, and coming and coming (sounds like a bad porno movie, doesn't it?)" ... frankly a bad porno movie is generally more cerebrally stimulating than a troll.

6. If you simply CANNOT stand to not respond on occasions, make your response low calorie. Remember the ignore buttons and pass them out:

I've seen this judge in person (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3472995)

And he is indeed related to Rush Limbaugh. The judge is Der Fuhrer's cousin or something. He gave a lecture at this "Good Government Day" event they had in Jeff City. It was sinister and nerdy all at once, much like all lawyers.

Lack of Knowledge (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473000)

removes your right to judge. I mean seriously. If you aren't an expert or at least very knowledgeable about literature you really don't have a right to say which books are better than others. I'm not saying that you don't have the right to an opinion and a right to voice that opinion. What I'm saying is that if you aren't knowledgeable about something, then your judgement isn't valid.
This is why we are having such trouble with laws regarding software, video games, etc. The lawyers, judges, and other people with the power to make decisions aren't knowledgeable enough to make well informed decisions. I mean you got a guy who play 4 very violent games with an extreme lack of plot and then decided games weren't art. Try getting a judge who's played games since he was 2. Someone who knows. When people who were alive before computers retire and the next generation comes into power I'm sure we wont have these stupid problems anymore, because people with power to decide will be more knowledgeable.
I would also like to see if this judge would make the same decision after playing through Final Fantasy 6 or Chrono Trigger.
The smart thing to do is not always the right thing to do. If you do the right thing, you are damn smart. -Me

Fair and well informed (5, Insightful)

shawnmelliott (515892) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473006)

I personally believe the judge was fair and informed. This can be seen by his
A. Wrong use of 2 of the titles
"Mortal Combat" and "Resident of Evil Creek"
B. Only looked at 4 titles.

The judge didn't play the games. He was shown video clips ( More likely to be the gory ones such as a MK Fatality ) and of the games he did see all 4 were basically the Gory ones in the industry. He didn't see Final Fantasy. He didn't see Metal of Honor. He didn't see any of the other more robust and story/plot/idealistic driven games.

This is similar to judging all movies value as Free Speech based on
Nightmare on Elm St.
Halloween
Friday the 13th
Texas Chainsaw Massacre

Anybody can see how ridiculous a judgement based on such a small set of evidence is. However, I do believe that the Gaming industry should have done a better job. Why didn't he see anything else?!? Why did he only see the "plots" of specific games and not a showing of those games themselves including cut-scenes. gameplay and the likes?

The judge missed key things that make it ART (2)

Kymermosst (33885) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473007)

The level design, the method of expression, the ambience portrayed, the textures that make it realistic. The levels in say... Doom, are akin to sculpture. Each one is the product of creative process.

That makes it art, and therefore freely expressable.

However... limiting access to kids under 17... we already limit alcohol, cigarettes, porno mags, music, voting, etc. If anything, sometimes this is warranted. Most kids could get their parents to buy one of those games, anyway.

Games not art? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473008)

Tell that to the art team....

Every good game has an art team.

Video Games and children's books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473009)

If anyone ever remembers the old choose your own adventure books they will find that video games are similar, just they happen to be more interactive with pictures and sound. They happen to be children's books which also are forms of free speach.

So does that mean if I make an interactive game/book it isn't a form of free speach, even if it just about Spot and how he can run, jump, play, mow down thousands of evil super nazis from the world Zenarkdjoijfe 13?

SECRET INFORMATION (use rot13 to decode) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473011)



... lbh arrq gb ernq sevqnlf Craal Nepnqr [craal-nepnqr.pbz].
Vgf nobhg gvzr fbzrbar fgnegrq guvaxvat bs gur cevbe gb mbzovr
vasrfgngvba gvzr" ba erfvqrag rivy tnzrf (be nal xvaq bs tnzr
gung erdhverf bqq xrlf naq pbzovangvbaf gb zbir nebhaq). Guvax
nobhg vg. Gur yno va juvpu gur vasrfgngvba fgnegf unccraf gb
or gur bar va gur qrrcrfg cneg bs gur vafgnyyngvba gung erdhverf
svaqvat xrlf fpnggrerq nyy bire gur onfr, naq, vs lbh jbexrq
va gung yno, lbh'q unir gb yrnir sbe jbex 2 ubhef rneyl gb trg
nyy gur xrlf gb trg va. Ubarfgyl, jung xvaq bs fpvragvfg jbhyq
chg hc jvgu fhpu na bireyl frpher jbex raivebazrag? Jung vs
fbzrguvat tbrf jebat? Trg bhg? Uneqyl!!
Jryy, V thrff gung jbhyq rkcynva jul gur vasrfgngvba fgnegrq
va gung yno. Ab bar unq rabhtu gvzr gb trg bhg, abe unq rabhtu
gvzr gb trg va gurer gb qrfgebl vg orsber vg tbg bhg bs pbageby.
V'q guvax gung vs V unq n yno gung ena bireyl rkbgvp naq rkgerzryl
qnatrebhf rkcrevzragf haqre gur enqne bs gur ybpny tbireazrag,
V'q hfr n yvggyr zber cynaavat....

People who don't get it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473012)

This kind of thing really annoys me. A ruling by a guy who has, in all likelyhood never played a video game in his life. He probably thinks that kids should all play baseball, listen to the adventures of the green hornet on the radio, and read a good book for entertainment, like kids did in his day. Except it's not his day any more and he's really pissed off.

Dont get me wrong, I enjoy playing all forms of sports, and I spend way too much money on books, but I also grew up playing video games, and I'm not going to stop. Maybe instead of banning the video games, we need to get the parents to smarten up a bit. I think if parents took a little more responsibility and interest in what their kids are doing, then a lot of these dumb problems would solve themselves. Video game makes (for the most part) clearly label their titles M for mature (just like an R rated movie), but it is up to the individual parent to decide what is right for their child, not some judge who can't understand the new mediums of technology properly.

Frogger (1)

Kizzle (555439) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473013)

Maybe we can finally get frogger banned now. All those cars trying to kill a poor innocent frog. No child should be exposed to that.

Not To Be A Troll but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473014)

I agree with the judgement, I mean if parents are going to let a computer raise their kids they might as well no what the kids are being raised on. And if the parents don't want to look I guess someone should force them.

Even so I think this will be about as worth while to enforce as the seat belt law.

What the fuck (2, Interesting)

WeaselGod (145056) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473015)

Maybe we should judge all mediums by some of the worst representations.

Maybe movies shouldn't be protected because all of those actions thrillers just have violence.

Maybe books shouldn't be protected because all those romance novels are just softcore porn.

Maybe music shouldn't be protected because all that gangster rap just talks about killing cops.

What the hell is wrong with people. Sure there are games that have no decent content, but there are also games like black and white, sim city, etc that actually have redeeming value. I don't think most games should be banned from kids, regardless, or more precisely because of their content. If I didn't have video games to vent my frustration with when I was younger I might have vented in a far more destructive manner. Give me the violent games, god knows the sims aren't going to keep me from being frustrated with the stupidity of this judge.

I know why! (-1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473034)

The judge couldn't have picked shittier games to review before making a ruling. However, most games with "plots" (i use the term loosely) are pretty stupid. Most games don't even come close to narrative. Maybe "interactive fictionlike" games such as Zork games or hitchiker's guide to the galaxy deserve First Amendment rights, but Doom? No way.

On a side note, there was a big push in the 70's to get pinball machines out of pool halls and gambling dens. Before, they were regulated like slot machines (games of chance) and banned in most cities. Here's [unl.edu] a link to that.

More secret info! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473036)



ONAARE Frpgvba: Tnzrf naq Qrzbf (6)

ANZR
onaare - cevag ynetr onaare ba cevagre

FLABCFVF
/hfe/tnzrf/onaare [ -ja ] zrffntr ...

QRFPEVCGVBA
Onaare cevagf n ynetr, uvtu dhnyvgl onaare ba gur fgnaqneq bhgchg. Vs gur zrffntr vf bzvggrq, vg cebzcgf sbe naq ernqf bar yvar bs vgf fgnaqneq vachg. Vs -j vf tvira, gur bhgchg vf fpehapurq qbja sebz n jvqgu bs 132 gb a , fhvgnoyr sbe n aneebj grezvany. Vs a vf bzvggrq, vg qrsnhygf gb 8

He played these games, eh? (5, Funny)

qslack (239825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473038)

The article mentions that he made his decision after playing 4 games. I can see why he thinks the way he does.

I offer this as an example of what probably happened to him while he was playing.

JudgeLimbaugh: Hello kids, I am a federal district judge. I'm just playing...

JudgeLimbaugh was shot in the head by TEH_CS_MASTAR with M4A1

JudgeLimbaugh: Sorry, can we just pause the game for a second so you all can help me with...

JudgeLimbaugh was slapped by hahaUsukk (admin)
JudgeLimbaugh was slapped by hahaUsukk (admin)
JudgeLimbaugh was slapped by hahaUsukk (admin)
JudgeLimbaugh was slapped by hahaUsukk (admin)
JudgeLimbaugh was slapped by hahaUsukk (admin)
JudgeLimbaugh was slapped by hahaUsukk (admin)

JudgeLimbaugh: Anyway, as I was saying...I am trying to decide whether free speech should...

Jenny17F: d00d i duncare abut free speach, do u got ne free beer? im only 14 so...thxd00d!!11

JudgeLimbaugh: Do these games have ANY artistic value whatsoever?

iaml33t: articistic value? no but i fukked mona lisa once!1111

Jenny17F: d00d relly? thats cool. UR THE MAN1111111

Re:He played these games, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473176)

Thats fuckin funny.

Games as speech (2, Interesting)

Mr. Shiny And New (525071) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473041)

I'd agree that most games are not speech. But come on, just because they AREN'T doesn't mean they can't be. Just the other day I was in a game store and I found a game that tells Bible stories and stuff. It's some kind of first-person-shooter or something, where the character has to make moral decisions and fight the good fight against the evil, fallen angels. You can't tell me that THAT game is not speech.

Unenforcable claptrap (2)

GMFTatsujin (239569) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473048)

So kids can't buy or play over-17-rated games without a parent's permission?

My response: Click.

So I can't use a peice of software without first reading and agreeing to the EULA?

My response: Click.

Sure, I'll warrant I'm over 17 to get into a nudie site. Click. As it happens, I *am* over 17, but really the question becomes, *how do they know?*

I mean, that's beside the more primary question of "why should they care."

Judgements like this are a load of horse-hockey, made, ironically, in order to present a political/ethical/whateverical statement. Just like the first amendment allows us regular folk to do.

It's a question that will escalate up the ranks, probably ending up with some bullshit congressional hearing or other, in which it is decided that all people over 18 with children will be implanted with authorization chips that activate the software. It'll be part of signing the baby out of the newborn wing of the hospital - just sign this birth certificate - by the way, you may feel some initial discomfort.

Ironically, the under-17 crowd that has children, such as you might find in just about any broken-down central urban district (and, here's the scary bit, *elsewhere too*), will be utterly helpless coming from either direction. Fortunately, they don't count, and the program to discourage voting proceeds according to schedule. Activate phase 3.

And it doesn't help at all that the judge has a name like Limbaugh. Like *that's* not a dead giveaway.

Great googley-moogley.
GMFTatsujin

um... point? (2)

eclectric (528520) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473054)

Since when did the creative angle have anything to do with first amendment protection? The SC has long deemed it appropriate for limits to be placed on movies, television and radio. Why not video games?

Secret Terrorist Information! (Rot13) (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473057)



Maybe we should judge all mediums by some of the worst representations.

Maybe movies shouldn't be protected because all of those actions thrillers just have violence.

Maybe books shouldn't be protected because all those romance novels are just softcore porn.

Maybe music shouldn't be protected because all that gangster rap just talks about killing cops.

What the hell is wrong with people. Sure there are games that have no decent content, but there are also games like black and white, sim city, etc that actually have redeeming value. I don't think most games should be banned from kids, regardless, or more precisely because of their content. If I didn't have video games to vent my frustration with when I was younger I might have vented in a far more destructive manner. Give me the violent games, god knows the sims aren't going to keep me from being frustrated with the stupidity of this judge.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Re:Secret Terrorist Information! (Rot13) (2)

ciole (211179) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473143)

Maybe music shouldn't be protected because all that gangster rap just talks about killing cops.

Maybe this is a troll, but i'll bite.

This line stands out from all your other examples, because this is precisely why certain rap should be protected.

Rating Movies (1)

cthrall (19889) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473059)

So do we also think all ages should be able to watch R-rated movies?

Re:Rating Movies (2)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473105)

I don't think the government or anyone besides the parents should have any say in whether they do or not. So to answer your question depending on just what the circumstances are yes yes I do. In other cases no they should not. But the government should get the *hell* out of the choice. :)

Re:Rating Movies (1)

timothy (36799) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473170)

cthrall asked: "So do we also think all ages should be able to watch R-rated movies?"

I don't think there should be state-regulated age limits on viewing R-rated movies; I don't think people should take seriously the pat and often misguided rating that some industry group happens to apply to a particular movie. It's just lazy thinking. (Some movies branded with a big fat R are perfectly fine IMO for children old enough to reason, whether or not 365 days have passed since they were legally eligible to drive in most parts of the U.S. Speaking of which, those driving-age laws ...) Where are the alternate rating services, so that ratings could be used as tools of choice rather than denial? Now if a *theater* wants to cut out a portion of their paying audience to satisfy their own (serious, or just smarmy) sense of morality, Fine -- their decision to make.

That doesn't mean that children should be encouraged or required to watch a particular movie no matter what it's rated. I thought the (PG-13) Indiana Jones & Temple of Doom was pretty gruesome. Similarly, games should be up to the household mores and rules that a particular child lives within. If a 14-year-old has a job at which she works to save money so she can play at being a tank commander because she likes to provide alternate endings to historical battles ... great. Her call. There are a lot of games I think are at best morally ambiguous no matter *what* age the player, but it isn't (and shouldn't be) my right to declare them verboten to anyone else.

timothy

A wide page limerick (-1, Offtopic)

mikosullivan (320993) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473071)

There once was a man from New Glup
Whose /. posts wouldn't mod up
When people asked why
He would simply reply
Maybe it's because for each posting I suddenly remember the point of what I was trying to say and instead of going back and correcting the post which would involve a lot of editing and retyping and other boring stuff like that I try to fit as many words on the last line to really fill it up.

Off-topic!!!???? (1)

mikosullivan (320993) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473132)

Well shoot, it was on-topic when the page was broken. :-(

There ought to be a law (1)

Anti-Microsoft Troll (577475) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473076)

Now all we need is a law prohibiting minors from using any variant of Windows. After all, it has been established that Windows is written and distrubted in violation of antitrust laws. And if video games aren't "speech," an operating system sure isn't.

Microsoft dosent want you to know this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473078)

Copyrighted vs "Free Speech" (1)

redtoade (51167) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473080)

I don't understand.

How can it be considered "free speech," if it's copyrighted? I don't get how the software companies can hide behind the first amendment to produce the game, but then discard this argument after we purchase the game. If I were to say that MY rights to do what I want with the software are being infringed by THEIR copyrights, they would say that the game ISN'T free speech. Somebody explain this apparent hypocrisy to me please.

I brought this up before... [slashdot.org]

The Judge Wore Some Very Restrictive Blinders (5, Interesting)

guttentag (313541) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473089)

The judge's deliberations were based in part on his review of four games: 'Fear Effect,' 'Doom,' 'Mortal Kombat' and 'Resident Evil'."
That's a very specific subset of the computer game industry. Mortal Kombat may not have any political statements to make, but many other games do. Take Grand Theft Auto 3: it may be a very violent game, but it works a lot of social and political criticism into the commercials.

"My Zaibatsu Monstrosity can even cross rivers! So far I've only hit a few puddles in the parking lot, but it's good to know that it's there. Besides, I'm a mom, not a conservationist."

It touches on gun control, child labor and other issues that companies or political action committees would rather not have pumped into the ears of teenage consumers.

Could Ford pull GTA3 off the shelves by claiming it unfairly portrays its Explorer line? Could the NRA block the release of GTA4 by complaining it doesn't like the game's portrayal of gun owners?

How far does this go? What about games like Sim City? Could the mayor of a major city sue EA for defamation of character (by teaching people that his style of city-management doesn't work)?

Re:The Judge Wore Some Very Restrictive Blinders (1)

qslack (239825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473118)

The important thing about this case is that the judge is saving the children.

Ford, the NRA, mayors, etc. suing won't save the children. If the children aren't in danger, then you keep your free speech rights. If children might be hurt in any way, perceived or truthfully, then the judge always finds a way around first amendment rights.

As artistically valuble as movies (1)

Enzondio (110173) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473115)

I fail to see how anyone could claim that something like the the Final Fantasy Series (The newer ones moreso than the original) could be seen as less artistic than film.

It's sad, really... (2)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473116)

I think all this hooplah over video game violence is a reflection of the quality of parenting here in the USA.

could be worse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473125)

let's just be thankful he didn't review daikatana. That would have made outlaw games altogether.

Good thing the judge didn't see Grand Theft Auto 3 (1)

Kargan (250092) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473126)

Not only is there a storyline which could possibly have warranted the "art" tag but I think it would have affected the outcome of the decision alone!

Just a few seconds of drug-taking, whore-mongering and cop-slaughtering could have given it a different spin...

Judge: "Now, what are you doing there?"

Player: "Well, this is a prostitute getting in my car. See how my cash is going down, now? Once she finishes her business and gets out of the car again, I'm going to bludgeon her with a bat and take my money back. Cool, huh???"

This ties in well with the Jesse Ventura thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473139)

If Jessee Ventura is going to make campaign video games, then one can presume they have a political message, and are protected by first ammendment rights.

Nice to see free speech defended... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473149)

Whoops [foxnews.com] guess he doesn't count. (nor the voice [cbsnews.com] of those who voted Le Pen)

Okay, great ruling. Now define "game" please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473156)

Thank you, I'm here all week.

sexually explicit games? (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473157)

does this mean I have to give up my copy of Super Salad Tosser 2: Goatse's Revenge?

Contact the Judge (1)

dirvish (574948) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473178)

Does anyone have any contact info for the judge so we can tell him what we think?

Graham Nelson would probably disagree. (2)

dwlemon (11672) | more than 12 years ago | (#3473183)

It is possible to make the argument that the 'plot' and 'characters' in video games are only there to sell which is really just a board game: Push the right keys in the right order at the right time, and you win.

Just because you take some free speech -- and I'm not just talking music, artwork and gore; I mean also the written word such as in interactive fiction -- and add a push-the-button interface, it does not undermine the aspects of the work that make it free speech in the first place.

Perhaps this judge would like to try playing through 'Curses.' Judge Limbaugh, can you read and write?

Judge Limbaugh - Enemy of the State (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3473189)

Keep in mind that this is the same bonehead who declared junk faxes legal [slashdot.org] .

Yep, relative of Rush Limbaugh.
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