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hello (-1, Offtopic)

Graspee_Leemoor (302316) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487038)

first post for ibm

Mod Parent UP! +5 FP! (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487066)

I bow to your first posting skills.


DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487041)

FP, this one is for all the logged in Trolls!

Suck my porkrind (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487047)

oats get you oats

hey you (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487048)

cock my suck

shit, if i had read the article, i'd be saying something +1 insightful

I'll tell ya how... (5, Funny)

swordboy (472941) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487054)

They waited until the very last second and then squeezed their bid in.


Re:I'll tell ya how... (5, Funny)

Bouncings (55215) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487116)

Microsoft didn't use the "Buy It Now" button?

Important Note: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487056)

We still are plagued with Jews! When will someone come out with a jew killin' robot?

Re:Important Note: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487120)

I thought the Palestinians had that covered?!

Let me introduce.... (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487127)

The Jew-a-Nater its a Jew killing machine, it slices, it dices, it juliennes, it can even deep fry! This fabulous piece of technology is available to you now for this introductory low price of three payments of $19.95! Imagine you're very own holocause machine for those cost of a cheap mexican hooker! ACT NOW!

This is a subject (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487061)

This is a post.

I read this article... (4, Interesting)

Marx_Mrvelous (532372) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487064)

It did seem very interesting. The article mentions that IBM is still loking for something to "light the fire" and produce large amounts of revenue... maybe hey don't need an internal change, but an external one; businesses realizeing the power and cost savings of open-source software and switching back to big blue.

Re:I read this article... (3, Informative)

diggem (74763) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487315)

maybe [t]hey don't need an internal change, but an external one;

But really they've already made an internal change. By embracing Linux and opensource. 2-3 years ago I had heard rumors of IBM revamping AIX to be more like Linux. Whether that's actually happened I don't know, but I see plenty of evidence which says they've certainly embraced Linux itself, as well as opensource. They've pushed the 'stick all your linux on our mainframe' for a while. I can only imagine the internal changes that took place to go from closed and proprietary to open. You won't see MS doing that any time soon.

Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (3, Flamebait)

outofthezone (576651) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487065)

What the hell are you talking about? Major open-source components? Which? Last I checked, (I have the Websphere Studio download sitting here, right from IBM's partner site - and I see nothing about open source anything. Is java open source? Or XML?

Open Standards and open-source are 2 different things, and hell - Java isn't an open standard, nor is it open source in the truest sense. What a bunch of bullshit propaganda. Go Microsoft.

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487094)

What webserver does WebSphere use?

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (2, Informative)

Gurft (108790) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487097)

umm Websphere is based on Apache Webserver... which last time I checked was one of the largest opensource projects EVER

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487121)

and the windows tcp stack is 'based' on BSD, but that doesn't make Windows open source either.

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487149)

Not the complete truth -- WebSphere distributes with Apache, but it's really just a Servlet engine.

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (1)

Egoine (22800) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487193)

Not the complete truth either.

Websphere is much more than a servlet engine:

EJB,JNDI,JDBC,Remote manageability,clustering,and so on and so forth. Apache is a core part of it, even if you can use iPlanet if you want to replace apache.

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487235)

The EJB and clustering support in Websphere is not open source either.

Closed source parts:

Servlet Engine



JDBC pooling


Open source parts:

Web server (Apache) assuming they're using Apache.

XML (xerces, xalan)

Kind of funny that anyone is clueless enough to think that WebSphere is open source.

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (1)

Egoine (22800) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487272)

>Kind of funny that anyone is clueless enough to think that WebSphere is open source.

?? who thinks that?

"...which has *major* open source **components**"

BTW, it also uses stuff from jakarta for JSP (at least in v3.5)

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (1)

mikolas (223480) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487321)

As I recall, the XML parts also originate from IBM, they donated those to Apache XML project.

The JSP compiler is Jasper by the way. But all the enterprise level functionality is closed source.

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (2, Informative)

EvilAlien (133134) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487135)

At least it can be argued that IBM is a proponent and supporter of Open Source:

JFS [] - a filesystem is a pretty major component of a server, don't you think?.

developerWorks: Open Source Projects [] - many more toys for development

Meanwhile, other major vendors jump on the bandwagon with comparitively little (Sun, SGI's XFS which is not open but at least the distribute Linux clue, and HP are on the Linux bandwagon) to none (Microsoft). BEA is one of Sun's happy little Sun ONE minions. Meanwhile, Microsoft continues to be a joke for large projects. Go Microsoft indeed.

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (2, Informative)

jmauro (32523) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487155)

XFS is as open as JFS. Get the complete source, GPL'ed even, at

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (3, Informative)

pwagland (472537) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487177)

What the hell are you talking about? Major open-source components? Which? Last I checked, (I have the Websphere Studio download sitting here, right from IBM's partner site - and I see nothing about open source anything. Is java open source? Or XML?
Sadly, they are true, have a look at what is included with WebSphere:
  • Apache
  • XAlan
  • Xerces
Having said this, I agree that the opensource bit is a little overstated, since the major part of WebSphere is not opensource at all, but how would it get onto /. if they didn't mention opensource! :-)

Re:Websphere, Open Source, WTF? (1)

irix (22687) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487290)

Umm, WebSphere Studio != WebSphere Application Server [] , which is what they are talking about.

WAS includes an IBM version of Apache [] , but the main component is the J2EE [] application server, which AFAIK doesn't contain any open source components.

Thanks for coming out, though.

Microsofts secret. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487069)

Re:Microsofts secret. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487208)

Please educate yourself. []

Re:Microsofts secret. (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487286)

Well you also have This [] Which clearly shows running Linux and Apache. Also the march survey [] shows several hosts at the bottom which run linux.. but this page seems to be broken, perhaps covered up in embarassment.

I wonder... (4, Funny)

Mrdzone (562353) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487071)

what they are going to do with the old hardware. I can see it now your very own piece of ebay right at your house!

Re:I wonder... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487220)

They are auctioning it off, of course!

what? (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487072)

"DemonBrew wrote to us with a new article in Business2 how IBM best MSFT, Sun, BEA Systems to win the contract for the new eBay. Cool part is that it's based on Websphere, which has major open source components. "

that would sort of make sense.
bested Sun and BEA Systems to win....
do you guys even read this stuff?

Re:what? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487242)

That is proper english. Read a book by a good author, dolt.

Re:what? (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487322)

Ok, maybe I'm just stupid, I haven't ruled that out, but that doesn't look anything like a proper sentence to me.

Then again, I had to cancel my Mad magazine subscription when they got too highbrow.

There was no need to insult me, cunt.

IBM is making a gamble here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487075)

if they take away Sun's marketshare, Java will become non-free (as in beer) and IBM will have to shell out a huge amount of money or make a long and risky switch to .NOT

Re:IBM is making a gamble here (1)

MaxwellStreet (148915) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487264)

The moment Sun makes java not free (as in beer), its huge developer base gets sliced in half. There's no way they're foolish enough to try to make people pay just to use java.

They said "bake-off" (4, Insightful)

Pituritus Ani (247728) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487076)

in the second paragraph. I guess the lawsuit from Pillsbury will be rolling in any minute now.

I also found this amusing (emphasis mine):

eBay confirms that it was dazzled by IBM's expertise with the
open-standard Java programming language . . .

While Java could be called "open," compared with, say, the Windows API, I don't believe Sun has turned control over the language specification to a standards body.

Re:They said "bake-off" (3, Interesting)

geekoid (135745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487089)

Actually they did, but then SUN found out they couldn't control the body, so they took it back.

Re:They said "bake-off" (3, Informative)

AJWM (19027) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487118)

To be more precise, SUN found out that the body was already in Microsoft's pocket, so they took it back.

Have you heard of? (5, Informative)

md17 (68506) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487108)

JCP - Java Community Process []
To take right from their website:

The JCP is the way the Java platform evolves. It's an open organization of international Java developers and licensees whose charter is to develop and revise Java technology specifications, reference implementations, and technology compatibility kits. Both Java technology and the JCP were originally created by Sun Microsystems, however, the JCP has evolved from the informal process that Sun used beginning in 1995, to a formalized process overseen by representatives from many organizations across the Java community.

Come on people, do your research before you blab this stuff.

Re:Have you heard of? (2)

Pituritus Ani (247728) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487125)

So an independent organization can publish a Java language specification without Sun's blessing? Thanks for edifying me.

Re:They said "bake-off" (2)

AJWM (19027) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487128)

While the Java trademark and JVM are still Sun-controlled, the various Java APIs are standardized by a community process which in fact tends to be dominated by IBM.

This _Is_ Your Father's IBM, Only Smarter (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487077)

How a former has-been kicked its old habits, got open-source religion, and regained its status as one of the biggest, baddest tech companies on earth.

It was one of the most high-profile technology deals to come up for grabs in years, and IBM didn't seem to stand a chance. Last summer Web auctioneer eBay (EBAY) kicked off a ferocious bidding war for the contract to provide software to power the next version of its website. Microsoft (MSFT) already provided eBay with key technologies, and CEO Steve Ballmer was constantly on the phone to eBay boss Meg Whitman, pleading his company's case and dangling the possibility of free ads and promotions on Microsoft's MSN network. BEA Systems (BEAS) -- the market leader in the Web application server software that eBay was looking for -- was also in there pitching. BEA was teamed up with Sun Microsystems (SUNW), another IBM rival with long-standing ties to eBay. Sun chief Scott McNealy was calling Whitman too. IBM, for all its talk of e-business, didn't even count eBay as a customer.

But Big Blue had some heavy artillery of its own in Willy Chiu, a computer scientist who runs its high-volume website lab and is routinely called in to sway important customers. "I have not met a single competitive situation where I have not won," he boasts. After a grueling four-month bake-off in which the contestants had to meet eBay's strenuous performance requirements, IBM won: eBay went with IBM's WebSphere software.

Alfred Chuang, the CEO of BEA, still fumes over the loss, charging that the only reason IBM won was that it sweetened its bid with promises of co-marketing and other deals with eBay. "We don't pay our customers," he huffs. But the real key to IBM's victory was much more prosaic and ultimately much more ominous for its rivals. eBay confirms that it was dazzled by IBM's expertise with the open-standard Java programming language and the power Java offered in a world of ever-increasing technological complexity. That's particularly telling given that BEA's partner, Sun, invented Java.

Winning the contract, worth tens of millions of dollars in its initial phase, proved that IBM's e-business savvy extended beyond the captive data centers of its traditional corporate customers and gave IBM a big-time victory in the Silicon Valley backyard of its fiercest enemies. More fundamentally, it illuminated one of the most crucial and overlooked transformations wrought during the celebrated nine-year run of Louis Gerstner, who stepped down as CEO on March 1. In its long-ago heyday, IBM ruled the U.S. tech industry by creating a stubbornly closed, proprietary environment; now it is building open-standards technologies like Java and the Linux operating system into everything it makes -- and finding that customers like eBay are hungry for such technologies' capacity to simplify today's baroque, networked computing world.

In fact, open-standards technologies are powering many of the most remarked-upon aspects of IBM's resurgence under Gerstner. They fuel the explosion of IBM's services business by making it easier for IBM consultants to stitch together varied hardware and software systems. Last June, IBM's revenues from services such as systems integration, product support, consulting, and website hosting surpassed computer hardware revenues for the first time in the company's 91-year history. And while software -- now almost entirely open-standards-compatible -- accounted for just 15 percent of IBM's revenues in 2001, it contributed a third of gross profits. Not surprisingly, everyone from Hewlett-Packard (HWP) to storage giant EMC is trying to copy IBM's services-and-software strategy. Indeed, that's what is behind HP's pending merger with Compaq (CPQ).

But for all of its progress, IBM is still looking for the spark that will ignite companywide revenue growth. Profits grew faster than revenues under Gerstner because of some deft financial engineering. (Gerstner made the numbers with the help of an overfunded pension and massive share-buyback programs.) Last year, IBM's revenues fell 3 percent to $86 billion, while profits fell 5 percent -- albeit during a year of double-digit declines for most of the company's competitors -- to $7.7 billion. As shareholders become less forgiving of accounting acrobatics, new CEO Sam Palmisano will be under increasing pressure to deliver real top-line growth.

Luckily for Palmisano, he has inherited an organization that is poised to do just that. Whether it was prescient or providential, IBM has shifted toward software and services just as competition on the hardware side of the industry has smashed margins to almost nothing. At the same time, the complexity of running a networked business is driving chief information officers everywhere to seek the comforting hand of IT services providers such as IBM. Big Blue's strategy boils down to this: Instead of trying to lock in customers with proprietary technology, it now tries to lock them in with irreplaceable IT services. Open-source technologies are the fountain that feeds that strategy, and they are leading IBM back to a position it enjoyed during its glory days: high-tech domination.

In one of the sleek, blond-wood conference rooms at IBM's Z-shaped headquarters in Armonk, N.Y., a slight, elfin man with curly gray hair is recounting how IBM discovered that open-standards fountain. "Once we decided we were embracing the Internet, and that our job was to help our customers integrate all their business processes and help them connect to all their employees, customers, and partners, how the hell do you do that?" IBM technology strategist Irving Wladawsky-Berger asks. "You need an open platform."

It's difficult to overstate just how startling an admission that is, coming from a top executive at a company once famous for both a strict adherence to closed platforms and a towering "not-invented-here" arrogance born of its long tradition of engineering breakthroughs. Historically, IBM software worked best with IBM hardware; that's how the company maintained its lock on customers. But in 1995, two years into Gerstner's tenure, IBM was a beaten company. The massive layoffs and cumulative $16 billion in losses from the early 1990s still weighed on IBM. The Internet had exploded onto the scene, and customers were desperate to tie all their discordant computer systems together and to link them to those at other companies. Something had to change. When Java came along that year, it seemed to be just what Big Blue needed. Java, a programming language, had the virtue of being able to create software that could run on any computer operating system.

The official acceptance of Java and open standards triggered furious debates within the company. At the time, Java was seen as some TV set-top-box experiment (which is what it was originally designed for). "The reaction was that we were going to bet the business on something that does not exist," recalls Scott Hebner, WebSphere's marketing chief. In 1997, Wladawsky-Berger was part of an e-business strategy group that included Hebner, current hardware chief Bill Zeitler, and software chief Steve Mills; they observed that the railroad, automobile, and telecom industries really didn't take off until the various players agreed on underlying standards (such as what gauge railroad track to use or where to put the gearshift in a car). Was the relatively young IT industry any different? In their view, the move to the Internet was the beginning of an industrywide effort to standardize on a common open platform. Java, with all its flexibility, would be crucial to that effort. "If the technology is right for the marketplace," Wladawsky-Berger notes, "companies that do not accept it become an asterisk of history." Hebner explains Java's importance in more concrete terms: "Why would I ever write my applications to a locked-in operating system when I can write to an open platform? Why would I try to create my own gauge?"

That thinking went into developing IBM's new WebSphere software, which was built completely around Java. Even though Java was originally oriented more toward devices such as PCs or set-top boxes, IBM helped make it the standard for enterprise and Web servers. In fact, last year was the first time an annual survey of 10,000 IBM customers found that those customers preferred working with systems centered on Java rather than Windows. As Hebner explains it, "There is a whole new market for building applications on the network, and to do that, you need software that is network-savvy." What IBM is trying to do, he says, is "build an operating system for the Internet."

That ambition goes well beyond Java. In the hardware arena, every server and mainframe that IBM sells has been compatible with the Linux open-source operating system since last year. Linux vastly expands certain capabilities of a mainframe; for instance, a single mainframe running on Linux can do the work of thousands of servers. This is opening up a whole new market for the death-defying IBM mainframe, which last year generated double-digit sales growth for the first time in a decade. The surge boosted sales of complementary products such as database software and storage systems. IBM is also incorporating Web services, another set of hot open-source technologies, into its software.

Adopting open technologies has enabled IBM to advance its products much faster than if it had insisted on developing everything itself -- because these technologies benefit from the input and talents of the larger software community. In turn, because of the company's formidable market clout, IBM's embrace of open systems has given a giant boost to the open-source movement. "They have legitimized Linux and open-source to the CIO/CEO buyer," says Matthew Szulik, CEO of Linux software firm Red Hat (RHAT). Avery Lyford, CEO of Linuxcare, another Linux software company, likens IBM's adoption of open-source to "a papal blessing."

Not everyone holds such charitable views. "I think IBM is the same as in the 1970s," says Shahin Khan, Sun's chief competitive officer. "A company basically interested in gaining control of information technology from its customers." He charges that Java and Linux are nothing more than "convenient vehicles for IBM to put together its disparate product lines." But integrating those product lines, he maintains, is not simply a matter of dusting them with a little open-source code. It actually requires some reconfiguration of the underlying hardware. And since doing all of that is complicated, Khan says, "IBM's solution is to sell professional services. The only way to make sense of IBM's disparate products is to hire 200 people from IBM Global Services. "As Oracle (ORCL) CEO Larry Ellison put it to an audience of software developers in December, IBM's sales pitch is basically: "Hey, whatever you got, this morass, this briar patch of computing, we'll just take it over and we'll raise your prices."

Even Gerstner and Palmisano would agree that open systems have helped IBM's services business and, thus, the company's overall position in the tech universe. Open-source technologies allow IBM to tie together heterogeneous computer networks and offer that capability as a service. Indeed, IBM in effect seems to be transforming itself into a gigantic, diversified consulting company called IBM Global Services (which, incidentally, Palmisano helped create). The 150,000 Global Services consultants will furnish customers with whatever technology they want, even from competitors. But you can be sure they will push IBM products first. Today, 60 percent of IBM's sales to large customers include some bundling of hardware, software, and services.

"Today we bundle deals and bring everything IBM offers to the table, and in many cases leave our competitors in the wings with nothing to do," says IBM salesman Mark Edson. IBM also is doing an extremely good job of piggybacking on the sales efforts of other enterprise software companies, such as Siebel Systems and PeopleSoft. Last year such joint sales programs (with more than 9,000 partners) brought in $3 billion in new revenues to IBM -- a fourfold increase from the year before.

IBM's attack-from-all-angles approach, the company believes, is grinding down its rivals. Sitting in his office in Somers, N.Y., one recent morning, Lou D'Ambrosio, head of sales for IBM's software group, reads from an e-mail he received at 9:08 a.m. from a BEA sales executive. "Hello, Lou. Based on the success I am seeing IBM have in the marketplace, I would like to be part of the IBM team." D'Ambrosio says he's getting about 15 such pleas a month from rival salespeople. "Two years ago, I was lucky to get five," he says. IBM's momentum is also apparent in the latest market-share figures: IBM is closing in on Oracle in database software, on BEA in Web server applications software, on EMC in storage, and on Sun in Unix servers. Competitors dispute some of those figures, but it is clear that IBM is gaining ground on long-standing market leaders.

Obviously, all of IBM's sales efforts would be in vain if they were not backed by competitive technology. Here is where the $5 billion that IBM spends each year on research and development comes in handy. IBM scientists were the first to champion the company's moves to Java and Linux, and they continue to push into new areas such as advanced storage systems, self-healing networks, grid computing, and Web-mining software. (See "The Next Big Blue Things.") In 2001, IBM filed a record 3,411 patent applications, making it the country's top patent filer for the ninth year in a row.

Sun's Khan says IBM can brag all it wants about its research, but software developers stitching together enterprise applications today really have only two choices for a development platform: the Sun-invented Java and Microsoft's .Net. "IBM does not have a party of its own," Khan says, so it is attending Sun's. Those are fighting words to Wladawsky-Berger, who clearly doesn't regard Sun as being in IBM's league -- or in Microsoft's either. "For Sun to say when it comes to software you have two choices, Microsoft and Sun, is like saying when it comes to world powers you have two choices, the U.S. and Tajikistan." Then he pauses: "Maybe I am not being fair -- the U.S. and Romania."

For all his dismissiveness, Wladawsky-Berger knows that IBM's open-source approach faces potential pitfalls. IBM still has a lot of work to do to get outside developers to rally around its products. For instance, there are many times more independent programmers who know how to work with Oracle databases than with IBM's competing software. IBM must also guard against fueling suspicions -- which people like Khan are only too happy to fan -- that it isn't an open-source purist. In one Web services standards body, for example, IBM has indicated it wants to be able to get royalties for any intellectual property it contributes. That runs counter to the open-source spirit, and if IBM is ever perceived to be trying to control the movement for its own commercial edge, the company will face trouble winning crucial support from developers.

There's a final long-term danger that IBM must be wary of. The endgame of all open-standards technology is a world where tying together disparate hardware and software becomes much easier, almost automatic. With these technologies, says Steven Milunovich, head of Merrill Lynch's technology research team, "much of what now requires a complex IT services market becomes more open and easier to do. So you don't need IBM to do it for you." That day may be years away. For now, IBM's open-source strategy has positioned it to regain some of the dominance it enjoyed decades ago. This time, though, it must keep its pride in check. "You have to be very sensitive to the fact the Internet is bigger than your own company," Wladawsky-Berger acknowledges. "Open-source is bigger than IBM."

Open standard? (1, Redundant)

km790816 (78280) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487080)

"IBM's expertise with the open-standard Java programming language..."

Open standard? Did I read this wrong?

Re:Open standard? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487105)

No you didn't read this wrong.

However ANYONE can make a Java Virtual Machine.

In that regard it is open.

great news for online shoppers (0, Interesting)

tps12 (105590) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487082)

This is great news for everyone, especially those of us in the Free Source community. While Linux has become a houshold verb, nearly rivalling other obscure operating systems such as the Macintosh and BeOS in user fervency, there has failed to be much of a dent made in the online auction community.

True story, I was unable to leave feedback (for non-ebayers: feedback is what you leave for people, usually a letter grade) using Galeon. I had to do it from work with my IE browser. This is too much to ask of the average desktop user, but Linux is definitely on the right track.

Not to mention the countless bugs, often resulting in lost orders or user fraud and credit card and identity theft, in the core ebay software. Once the next generation ebay is submitted to peer review, we will see an eradication of these bugs, just as we have seen in the Linux kernel 2.4.

I give ebay A++++++++ great site!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The new grammar (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487156)

Linux has become a houshold verb

And BTW, it's "bested" (past tense), not "best"

Re:great news for online shoppers (3, Informative)

synx (29979) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487159)

I wish I had mod points, I'd mod this -1 has no clue.

The ebay software/business logic is highly proprietary and difficult to understand. The story is how IBM sold ebay to use their software which is based on open source technology including apache, linux. Then of course there is java which isnt open source, but "open standard" (ymmv).

Anyways, peer review of complex business logic by people who don't understand it won't help nothing.

Re:great news for online shoppers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487259)


Re:great news for online shoppers (1)

delta407 (518868) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487182)

While Linux has become a houshold verb, nearly rivalling other obscure operating systems

This is great! Linux is almost caught up to other obscure operating systems! Great job, guys!

But... I'm not so sure about the household verb thing. "Eat your mashed potatoes, or I'll go Linux on your a__!" just doesn't seem all that common. The open-source community really needs to work together on this one, but with a little help and corporate cash I think we can pull this off.

Re:great news for online shoppers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487202)

I'm not so sure about the household verb thing. "Eat your mashed potatoes, or I'll go Linux on your a__!"

So "apeshit" is a verb? Nice move. "To shit an ape."

Re:great news for online shoppers (-1, Offtopic)

CmdrTaco (troll) (578383) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487223)

Linux has become a houshold verb

I linuxed today.

I will linux some more when I get home.

Tomorrow, I will linux again.

Re:great news for online shoppers (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487230)

It is nice to be in the fantasy land and read one thing and remember another. There is nothing in the article that says that IBM will use any open software. They will use WebSphere and most likely DB2. You will NEVER see the code in the open. WAKE UP!

Java makes Microsoft weak... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487090)

...and makes everyone else stronger!

Java has revolutionized this industry by providing a means for developers to write software that works on all platforms, without any strings attached. Of course this is very bad for Microsoft because it directly threatens their near-monopoly with Windows. The Java momentum is very strong, and will only get stronger as Microsoft continues to try to thwart its efforts.

Re:Java makes Microsoft weak... (-1)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487188)

I guess shite performance and security issues aren't really strings.


IBM sniped (0, Redundant)

mochan_s (536939) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487092)

IBM must have sniped to win the ebay bid.

Good to consumers... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487100)

IBM once had big embrace on proprietory software looks at open standards. What does it mean? Do IBM compete with its own proprietory software. No! Not at all!! .. This should be considered as industry trend and not to be considered as threat to someone. The best way to that someone is to be with industry trend to avoid being sidelined. Hope you agree...

Don't worry. (0, Interesting)

Anti-Microsoft Troll (577475) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487107)

MS wanted to have eBay run on its software, but there were so many security holes in it, people were winning auctions that had closed years ago.

I beta tested Microsoft's software for eBay and managed to hack in bids that won auctions for that guy' kidney, Elian's raft, and that girder from the World Trade Center. There are no "invalid auctions" when the thing's running Microsoft's swiss cheese software.

Nifty Manuevering (1)

huckda (398277) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487110)

IBM with their infinite wisdom
(KNOWING what happens when you create proprietary systems), came up with the greatest resolution.
Coupled with their hardware know-how, why is anyone surprised that they won the bid due to eBay's high-load testing?

IBM is heading back towards BIG BLUENESS..even if only one meager step at a time...and to incorporate OpenSource novel!

Open Standard and Java (5, Insightful)

pridkett (2666) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487132)

There has been a fair number of posts about whether or not Java is really an "Open-Standard". The first thing to remember is where this article originates, Business 2.0.

Taking that into account, Java is an open standard. Are there other compilers for Java? Yes. Are there multiple interpreters for Java? Yes. Is the standard published on how it works? Yes (Addison-Wesely publishes several books on it). So, for the average intended reader of business 2.0, Java is an open standard.

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but something doesn't have to be controlled by an [] international [] standards [] organization [] to [] be [] open [] .

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go prepare for flames as I've posted something that people are going to have problems with.

Re:Open Standard and Java (-1, Offtopic)

pohl (872) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487180)

for the love of pete mod that post Insightful.

Re:Open Standard and Java (2)

delta407 (518868) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487217)

Correct, something does not have to be controlled by an international standards organization to be open. However, when it is controlled by one company that acts like a four-year-old that doesn't want to share, then it is not open.

Just because there are other compilers and interpreters does not make it an open standard. Does WINE make the Windows API an open standard? Does Samba make SMB/CIFS an open standard? Microsoft is comparable to Sun -- they made this, it's their stuff, they can do whatever they darn well please.

Re:Open Standard and Java (2)

pridkett (2666) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487260)

With regards to CIFS it's controlled by SNIA [] . You can find the spec at ndex.html [] .

It's Microsoft's extensions that make it a problem. Someone more knowledgeable might want to clear this up a little better than I can.

Re:Open Standard and Java (1)

Kingpin (40003) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487287)

..controlled by one company that acts like a four-year-old that doesn't want to share..

Uh, define share? Allow bastardized versions like J# or J++ to pollute the API? Allow the community to partake in the specification? The Java Community Process is nothing but this. Java is free to implement according to the specifications directed by Sun - this goes for runtime environment as well as core libraries. There are completely open source efforts that do this, there are other companies like IBM that do this as well. What is it that you so lack? What are you afraid of? That Sun is going to pull the plug? That cannot happen.

Your examples suck at best. Parts of the Win32 API have never been published, CIFS was reverse engineered by the Samba gang. There are fully public complete specifications for both VMs and langauge implementation available. Same goes for architectural designs, eg. EJB containers.

Re:Open Standard and Java (-1, Offtopic)

dimator (71399) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487236)

How to get moderated to high heaven

Rule #1: Include something like "I'm probably going to get flamed for this"

Rule #2: Include something to the effect of "my opinion is unique. if you don't mod me up, you're just a /. sheep, following the crowd."

Rule #3: Moderators love links [] .

Too bad for ebay... (1)

r0nc0 (566295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487138)

... they must have been dazzled by IBM's total bs when it comes to sales. I've worked on many recent projects where IBM has been pushing WebSphere really really hard. Some of it is interesting stuff, other parts of it is real crap. But then I suppose I could say that about any technology. And then there's IBM Global Services... It's a great win for J2EE, but it's too bad for eBay.

Slashdot celebrates IBM winning a project? (0, Flamebait)

vkg (158234) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487145)

WTF? It's all over, folks - it's not that the dot sold out, it's just that the old folks have won. Open source, ruled by Apple and IBM.

Why is this news? Answer: it isn't. What it is is lame. The buzz has worn off, and it's back to business as usual.

Re:Slashdot celebrates IBM winning a project? (-1, Offtopic)

vkg (158234) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487213)

Yo! Moderators! This is NOT flamebait. It may be controversial, but why is /. covering this as if it mattered?.


Re:Slashdot celebrates IBM winning a project? (0, Offtopic)

zsmooth (12005) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487250)

All you have to do is say "I'LL SEE YOU IN METAMOD!" and the moderators get all scared and stuff and mod you back up.

What you don't see at walmart (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487153)

Is this []

stepping outside for a bit (-1, Troll)

tps12 (105590) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487158)

I'm going to go get some air. If anyone needs me, just leave a message. Should be back within an hour or two. I just have to swing by the grocery store, maybe pick up some brewskies, you know.

Could really use a good picture of Gandalf looking stoned. It's for my wallpaper, thanks.

MODERATORS: I am using my +1 bonus here, deliberately, for maximum exposure. Obviously, it would therefore be pointless to moderate it down. Instead, moderate another helpful post'll be doing the whole community a favor.

MODERATORS (-1, Offtopic)

tps12 (105590) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487178)

MODERATORS: Thank you for ignoring my humble request.

Okay, I'm out. I don't have my cell on me, so you'll just have to leave a message. If it's an emergency, call the grocery store and page me.

Cowards.... (0, Troll)

alexborges (313924) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487167)

Id bet that a


Might have proven much cheaper/better than the crappy websphere (ive tested it, used it and hate it).

Re:Cowards.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487191)

Id bet that you are a FUCKING+RETARD

Re:Cowards.... (2)

alen (225700) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487216)

Are you insane? Ebay uses Oracle to run it's database. You really think that MYSQL can handle a database that size with so many users at once?

Re:Cowards.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487243)

MySQL selection queries are fast enough, and the database is cheap enough (free as opposed to millions of dollars for an Oracle solution). I think you're the insane one.

Re:Cowards.... (2)

alen (225700) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487318)

And how large is your database? How many users connect to it? To how many sites do you replicate it to? How many transactions does it process?

MYSQL isn't even a relational DB. How is it going to run Ebay?

Re:Cowards.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487300)

With the InnoDB back end for MySQL, it probably can. See this [] site

Re:Cowards.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487246)

you twunt.

i'm sure it works fine for ur stamp collection webiste tho'.

Stop the Crack! (-1, Troll)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487313)

Hello Pro-Linux troll,

Are you crazy? Since when was MySQL enterprise software? You might as well have suggested that they use MS Access. Personally I wouldn't even use MySQL to hold a database of 25 e-mail addresses; it just might buckle under the load! And you're thinking e-bay? That's a good one. PHP too, wow. Why not just suggest that people type in their own SQL queries while they're at it?

Re:Cowards.... (1)

brooks_talley (86840) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487320)

That may be the funniest thing I've ever read.

PHP is pretty decent. Apache is top notch. MySQL is a joke, as far as databases go. It's maybe on par with MS Access as far as scalability.

Can't you just see the headlines? "Ebay's new site: 2,000,000 lines of code, $5,000,000 in hardware and networking infrastructure, no stored procedures, no database fault tolerance, no referential integrity!"


I've Said It Before... (0, Funny)

pnatural (59329) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487170)

And I'll say it again:

Java is to code as music is to country.

'nuff said.

Re:I've Said It Before... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3487232)

What's even funnier about that is that you messed up your own joke.

Re:I've Said It Before... (2)

david duncan scott (206421) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487249)

Huh? I'm not arguing, just don't get it.

My first thought was that it was a shot at Java and country music, but that would be "Java:code::country:music". Then I thought, well, maybe the reference to "country" is really to "country music", indicating that Java is a superset of code just as music is a superset of country music. Or maybe Java is patriotic...

I give up. Not 'nuff said, apparently.

Yeah... (4, Funny)

NickRob (575331) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487172)

But did they meet the reserve? They might be bragging and lose again.

Closing Quote (4, Interesting)

Etcetera (14711) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487176)

I really like the closing quote from the article:
"Open-source is bigger than IBM."

Hey, any additional fodder for my efforts to convince my boss to move over to completely open-source technologies is fine with me! It's really heartening to hear a company like IBM say that though. More reinforcement that this paradigm is here to stay, and isn't just some sort of post-modern fad.

major kudos (1) (557454) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487186)

I don't know about everyone else, but I for one am very exited about this.

Java isn't my prefered language, but it seems to me like this kind of deal can have a big impact in the industry to promote open standards. With a BIG player like ebay getting rid of asp for java, and probably saving a pritty penny in the process, perhaps M$ will have more reason to re-evaluate thier game plan.

Deep Thoughts... (0, Offtopic)

mosdef (575471) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487196)

Does IBM's move to Java pose a threat to Windows? Tell us. []

The beat of them? (1)

OpenSourcerer (515213) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487197)

how IBM best MSFT, Sun, BEA Systems to win the contract
beat best besten?

old saying (1)

k2enemy (555744) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487201)

with the tech job market the way it is, whoever made the desicion was obviously following the saying "nobody gets fired for buying ibm."

Tomorrow's News Headlines: (5, Funny)

dbretton (242493) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487222)

IBM Cited In Massive Online Scam
Reuters, Inc.

Ebay (, NSDQ: EBAY), the world's largest online auction site, is reporting that it has been hoodwinked in an internet scam, involving International Business Machines (IBM), Inc.
"They promised us all of these great services, and even showed us pictures and everything", claims Dave Hubnard, Ebay's CTO.
"It looked so, perfect. They responded to all of our emails quickly and professionally. I really don't know what happened. They even sniped in at the last minute with an ultra-low bid."
Shocked and bewildered, Ebay employees are uncertain when, or if, they will ever see the new services promised to them by IBM.
Attempted telephone calls to IBM headquarters were returned with a "disconnected service" answer.
Just hours before the deal was closed, IBM had the address of its corporate headquarters changed to a PO Box address in the sourthern section of Jacksonville, FL.

'Down for maintainance' (1)

Chicane-UK (455253) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487227)

Hm.. wonder now if they wont be 'down for maintainance' for a few hours some mornings now? I know that it works out at like 1am or somthing in the USA, but its right slap bang mid morning for UK eBayers... can really balls up your auctions :)

IBM controlling future of java? (3, Interesting)

The-Dork (470891) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487238)

Its interesting to see the existence of Java being linked to IBM more than Sun these days.
What with IBM having the fastest java compiler Jikes [] ,
a Java-base development environment VisualAge [] ,
some stellar java development at DeveloperWorks [] ,
and talks of IBM acquiring Sun []

Well, now I'm conflicted . . . (2, Interesting)

Selanit (192811) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487251)

On the one hand, Ebay's backend is now based on some very cool, open source technology.

On the other hand, they use Microsoft Passport [] , which raises a whole bunch of privacy and security [] issues.

Are they good or evil? Seems more like a shade of grey to me.

Re:Well, now I'm conflicted . . . (1)

enjo13 (444114) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487279)

I don't understand your logic. How can you be "good" for embracing open source??

Its quite simple, companies are embracing open standards and open source software because it makes the most business sense. They want to reduce their costs while increasing their utility... certain open source projects tend to do just that.

Ebays choice of technology does not make them good or evil, they are simply doing what they think is best for their company.. period. The concept of 'good' and 'evil' corporations is almost a laughable one.

Now we can only imagine (5, Funny)

alen (225700) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487253)

that if MS would have won the bid we would have had something in windows to let us bid and list auctions on ebay automatically. Ebay make a nice tool called mister lister to bulk upload your auctions. It could have become part of the next version of windows. Now MS will have to build it's own auction site from scratch and integrate it into windows.

Websphere is crap (1)

tbien (28401) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487276)

Sorry, but I had to work with versions from 3.02
to 4.x and it is really bad. We replaced it with
jBoss/ Jetty which is simply the better solution.

In the time you need to generate a Websphere
EJB jar, I can build, deploy the same EJBs on
jBoss and even run all 40 jUnit tests.

Bidding on the contract (5, Funny)

brer_rabbit (195413) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487294)

Ebay Computer Contract
Item # 4886798269

Category: Computers: Contracts

Currently: $12,378,462
Quantity: 1
First bid: US $10
# of bids: 3

Seller (Rating): Ebay (999999999)

High bid: IBM (10)


You are bidding on a contract for providing software and hardware to power the next generation of e-bidding monstrosi-sites...

Does anyone remember... (1)

raddan (519638) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487296)

Taligent, the company that was created between IBM, Apple, and Motorola in the early 90's - tied with Rhapsody - with the goal of creating a an open platform? I thought that IBM was in the openness game waaaay before Java (???).

They also offered to sell PCs on EBay (2)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 12 years ago | (#3487317)

IBM will sell equipment on EBay as a normal vendor, thus adding thousands of listings to EBay's site.

I suspect this is not a coincidence.

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