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Lameness filter encountered. (-1, Offtopic)

trollercoaster (250101) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496002)


Your comment violated the "postercomment" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition. Comment aborted.

Downgrade from Mandrake to RedHat? (3, Interesting)

DrXym (126579) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496011)

Mandrake comes with so many extra packages that I reckon anyone who moves over to Red Hat will wonder what the hell they were thinking.


The one place RH probably beats Mandrake is in polish, in the UI and the packages but it's still a major sacrifice.

Re:Downgrade from Mandrake to RedHat? (0, Redundant)

grahamm (8844) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496035)

As does SuSE, or does RH7.3 have as much as the 7 CDs (or 1 DVD) of SuSE 8.0?

Re:Downgrade from Mandrake to RedHat? (3, Interesting)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496051)

what the heck does Mandrake offer that RH does not?

I would not trust my Server to a draketool, they are clunky unintigrated programs that have bad interfaces.

if anyone has better total package, it is Suse, though the problems with CD-R setup and ZAxisMapping in the XF86 file are anoying, as are the problems with sax....though I have not tried 8.0, sounds like it still has some bumps in it.

Re:Downgrade from Mandrake to RedHat? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496118)

Tell me if you could configure most the servers (Samba, Squid, local dns, ftp/web, mail, news) in about 1/2 hr on Red Hat? Oh wait, I ask too many configurations. How about just to configure Samba to share printer with Winbloze in 3 minutes. Try that on Red Hat and let me know.

Cheers!

Re:Downgrade from Mandrake to RedHat? (1)

rmadmin (532701) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496184)

I agree, all of my production servers have RH 7.x on them. From the few times I've used MDK I've felt it was a cheap OS. Just didn't seem like it would take a beating. Then again, I never liked RedHat due to its bloat. Anyways, to make a long story short, who has more market share in the server market? Probably RedHat. Does Mandrake have a certification? Sure, but you don't hear about it as much as RHCE. Anyways, Even though I've never been the greatest fan of RedHat (I'm a slack kiddie, I admit it!), Its one of the original three distrobutions I grew up with, so I'm going to trust it over Mandrake.

I like it that... (-1, Offtopic)

5.11Climber (578513) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496012)

"Previous users of Windows are not eligible for a rebate." Makes me feel like there is some justice in the world after all.

Re:I like it that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496054)

Does this mean that if you previously used Windows but upgraded to a competitor's Linux that you are also ineligible for the rebate?

Re:I like it that... (1)

Guido69 (513067) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496103)

I'm sorry, but that type of thinking will only hurt Linux in the end.

I, for one, am sad to see RH stooping like this. We don't need infighting among Linux distros right now. Plenty of time for that when Linux as a whole gains a bit more market share. To me, this looks like RH giving up on pushing Linux as a desktop OS for the masses and just focusing on becoming another Monoplisoft.

Instead, RH *should* be targeting previous Windows users. That would be true justice. Fact is, they have way more to gain by trying to convert Windows users.

linux opinion piece (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496015)

Was I the only one who broke into a scream of terror when I looked at this month's copy of Personal Computer World? There, staring out from a free CD-Rom on the cover was the program from hell, and all you needed to do to let it take over your PC was double click a couple of times and kiss goodbye to your sanity.

The nasty piece of digital scurf in question is known as Linux and there are plenty of sad types who will tell you it is the future of personal computing. Do not fall for this bizarre line in geek thinking.

Even Personal Computer World, after making it so easy to enter the twilight zone without a return ticket, saw fit to enter a few caveats in the fine print. Linux, it said, came with a serious health warning. Don't even think about it, the magazine said, unless you are technically proficient and have backed up all your PC files beforehand.

Yes, but we know what the average PC user is like. He never reads the words, he just slings in the CD-Rom, clicks on the install icon, and hopes for the best. And if you are now looking at a blank screen with a few impenetrable commands where you once had a working PC, then all I can say is: "You have only yourself to blame."

Linux, for the uninitiated, is a version of that old computer donkey known as Unix. If you need to run big computer Unix tasks then it is, I am told, not a bad solution at all. Equally, if you believe there is no point in doing easily something you can achieve the long way round, it is doubtless the way to go.

Imagine a tougher version of MS-Dos - where the commands are even harder to memorise and less forgiving of errors - and you are starting to get there. And if you want to cheat a little, you can put on a pseudo-graphical front end and - bingo - you might just manage to turn a modern Windows NT-capable PC into a passable imitation of Windows 3.1 circa 1992.

However, to read some publications, you might think that Microsoft's Bill Gates is quivering in his boots at the idea that Linux will do what IBM and Apple never managed to achieve - kick Windows off the everyday desktop. Really? Well, no. Linux is flavour of the month with the geek community for two reasons - it's free, and it's not from Microsoft.

For a certain breed of bug-eyed computer user, that really is all you need. Trivial details such as usability, the lack of decent everyday software, and the plain fact that, when things go wrong, you are on your own are not setbacks to Linux addicts. These are the very reasons why they like the wretched thing - because it sets them apart from the mainstream of tedious, ordinary users who just use PCs to get on with the job.

Personal computers seem to have attracted some strange and obsessive people along the way to becoming common or garden information tools. If Linux hadn't been invented by a Finnish student a few years back, something equally strange and esoteric would have appeared to take its place.

Computer geeks despise simple, common standards. Gates is the object of their hate simply because he won the operating-system war. If Apple or IBM had come out on top, the people now buzzing so excitedly around Linux would have treated them to the hate mail they reserve for Gates today.

Fads like Linux are diversionary characters in a digital freak show on the sidelines of modern information technology. Finding them on the cover disks of mainstream magazines says more about the novelty value of computer journalism than the real issues facing those trying to make tomorrow's PCs a sight better than the ones we use today.

The idea that great developments in personal computing will be invented in some dismal student bedroom in Helsinki might make nice bedtime reading for people who dream in hexa-decimal. But if all you want is a computer that you can aspire to understand, chuck that blasted CD-Rom in the bin right now.

Go Away! (-1, Offtopic)

5.11Climber (578513) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496023)

You already said this once and that was enough!

Re:Go Away! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496038)

Thank you for your insightful reply to my post. Did you enjoy the opinion piece ? Did you agree with it ? Did you know YHBT? YHL. HAND.

Cheap shot (-1, Flamebait)

bildstorm (129924) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496024)

If I ever needed an excuse to avoid Red Hat again, well, this takes the cake.

I find it sad that you can upgrade from other professional Linux platforms with $10 off, but not from Windows or anything else. It seems to me that Red Hat is taking a cheap shot at the other companies.

Of course, $10 off doesn't mean much to me here in Finland. So, it just seems they're solidifying their market, which is the US market. I think I'll stick with SuSE for now.

Re:Cheap shot (1)

00_NOP (559413) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496142)

I find it sad that you can upgrade from other professional Linux platforms with $10 off, but not from Windows or anything else. It seems to me that Red Hat is taking a cheap shot at the other companies.

This is business, not charity. Face facts - it is in RH's interests for the other companies to exit the market.

As for Windows, the behemoth is not going to be killed for $10!

Makes sense to me..... (5, Insightful)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496175)

Part of what you pay for when you buy a Redhat box is installation support. Users of other distros are less likely to make use of that support as they are already at least somewhat knowledgable about Linux, thus it's less costly for Redhat to provide to those users.

People migrating from Windows would be more likely to use that support.

(For what it's worth I'm a Mandrake user. I got my Mandrake CD from a local cheap CD burner, donated some money to Mandrake online and purchased Ximian Red Carpet premium service and I'm happy with all of it. I just see cost related reasons why Redhat would do this for people owning Linux and not Windows).

Re:Cheap shot (3, Insightful)

Stoutlimb (143245) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496221)

Well, that could be. If a company starts offering advantages to customers to switch, and these advantages have nothing to do with the quality of the product or service offered, such as cash rebates, they abdicate themselves a certain moral high ground. In my opinion anyways, uneducated as that may be.

But what do I know!

Upgrade!? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496027)

Upgrading to Red Hat is like upgrading to Windows.

Competitive ugrade from Windows makes more sense (5, Insightful)

shaldannon (752) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496028)

The whole point (usually) of offering competitive upgrades is to get someone to switch to your product, but in this case, I think it would be better to make that offer to Windows users (e.g., send in your authorized Windows media and key with a purchase of Red Hat Linux and we'll pay you the cost of the Microsoft tax) than it does to compete with other Linux vendors. This kind of internecine fighting is what let Micrsoft get a foot in the door on UNIX to begin with. The last thing we need is fragmentation and infighting in the Linux space.

Re:Competitive ugrade from Windows makes more sens (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496066)

what fragmentation? this is one linux company trying to take the market of another one.

this is not infighting the same way that the Unixes did it.

besides, Unix will never regain the market it once had until all the Unix companies are using Linux...a united front against MS.

Re:Competitive ugrade from Windows makes more sens (2)

shaldannon (752) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496127)

not infighting yet...but this being a market system, it won't be long before others do it too. Why do you think there are, say, more than one car company offering 0.0% rates? Why do you figure that when one airline lowers its rates, many others do too? Why do you think that when WordPerfect still existed, both it and Microsoft were offering competitive upgrades from the other's products?

If I have the choice between Mandrake at $40 and Red Hat at $40 and Red Hat offers a $10 discount. and (for whatever reason) I'm not going to download the iso from someplace, doesn't it make more sense to go with the Red Hat offering?

Other companies in this market are going to see it, and I have no doubt that there will be some pricing adjustments. The nice thing about a "Competitive upgrade" pricing model is that you get to charge full price and then, if someone takes the time and effort to prove that they are switching, give a refund. This is nicer than a straight price cut because you get full price for most of the software you sell, while giving the illusion that it is cheaper.

Re:Competitive ugrade from Windows makes more sens (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496210)

I know that...and this is all good, but there will neve be the kind of lock out infighting that the old Unix market experienced in the early 80's.

cutting off the coattails (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496031)

that you rode on to become phony PayPer LieSense funny mony billyunheirs.

being a greed/fear based corepirate megasloth IS more importaNT than being decent folks. eye gas we gnu that.

0, you've got to be .kidding (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496060)

to say that you .gnu that these fuds were just selfish moneysucks wearing borrowed tuxes would be astonishing. we all loved the fedorites write up until VA lairy weNT kode blew greedmonger, taking komandooer tahoe with him.

RedHat Installer (2, Interesting)

mixbsd (574131) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496032)

As someone who tried to upgrade from RH5.2 to RH7, but couldn't because the stupid installer did weird things to my hardware (ie. switch off my monitor) I doubt I'm going to upgrade to any version of Linux soon. SuSE did it to me too, but at least FreeBSD's installer didn't do that. Anyone else had that problem?

Re:RedHat Installer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496065)

You tried to upgrade over two versions all at once? Ever tried that with any other OS and seen it work flawlessly?

Re:RedHat Installer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496138)

Um.. Debian

Upgrade 5.2-7.x (2)

shaldannon (752) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496079)

I'm thinking that the installers probably had trouble with such an archaic OS :)

I've been on the Red Hat upgrade path since 4.2, and in my experience, any time you want to move up a major revision number, your best bet is to back up anything you want to keep, wipe the disk, repartition, make a clean install, and restore from backup. I'm not sure what changed between the 4.x and 5.x series, but between 5.x and 6.x, they changed network config stuff, apache's location (iirc), the default window manager, and a bunch of other stuff. The 6.x to 7.x change was fairly radical too. They moved all the networking stuff to xinetd, moved the wm to Sawfish and Ximian, moved apache (again), switched to openSSH, etc.

Saints? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496034)

Sometimes the naiveness of the younger slashdot readers are quite funny :)

These companies are in the business of making money just like any other company, like coca-cola, microsoft or GM.

The value they see in open source are the free labour they get from it, nothing else.

Ofcause they want to take customers from each others, did you expect something else? :)

Re:Saints? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496074)

Don't forget the Redhat hostile takeover of postresql from Great bridge (who went out of business soon after), they just took the software and renamed it Redhat DB, interresting way of making business.

i'll stick with mandrake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496036)

i tried red hat 7.2 wasn't all that impressed with it as a desktop OS. But I would use it on a server way before I use Mandrake. But I guess what I'm sayin is pretty obvoius too so just ignore me

This I don't like (1)

RazzleFrog (537054) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496037)

I realize that Redhat is a business but this seems a little underhanded. What is more important to them - encouraging Windows users to "upgrade" to RedHat or taking existing customers away from other distributors.

I personally use SuSE on my notebook and Slackware on my mail server. There is something about RedHat that makes me think that they would like to be the next evil empire.

Re:This I don't like (3, Insightful)

NicolaiBSD (460297) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496119)

> What is more important to them - encouraging Windows users to "upgrade" to RedHat or taking existing customers away from other distributors

Neither. They're in business to make money selling an OS based on an open source kernel. They need as many customers as they can get. Apparently they think it's easier to get people already using Linux to switch to RedHat than to get Microsoft windows users to switch. I think that makes sense. It's not unethical, certainly not compared to some of the tricks other companies in this business use (think Microsoft, Larry Ellison).

Re:This I don't like (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496143)

"There is something about RedHat that makes me think that they would like to be the next evil empire."

I would argue that there is something about you (RazzleFrog) that makes you see any dominant market power as evil. Some people like to go with the big dog for all of the benefits, and others like to express something about themselves by supporting an underdog.

Linux users fit into the "supporting an underdog" camp, which (in my estimation) is why the bigger Red Hat gets, the more "evil" they seem to many linux users.

Re:This I don't like (2, Insightful)

lateral (523650) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496217)

What is more important to them - encouraging Windows users to "upgrade" to RedHat or taking existing customers away from other distributors

I would guess that what is most important to them is still being around in five years time.

RedHat has repeatedly stated that most of their business comes from replacing other forms of *NIX, NOT Windows. This is entirely in keeping with that idea. In the short term the biggest threat to RedHat is not MS but other distributions because they are the people competing in *exactly* the same arena. This looks to me like an open source business behaving like a business, good news for the commercial future of Linux.

L

$10 off of what? (-1)

Serial Troller (556155) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496040)

I paid $0 to install RedHat* -- they're going to send me a free $10 bill? Cool!

* which sucks monkey dong, BTW; get Debian or something else unless you enjoy the instability you've come to know and love with Windows.

Mandrake is crap . . . (1)

Vardamir (266484) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496048)

SuSE is pretty damn good, but Mandrake has always been damn near as problematic as Windows. For my main workstation, I always use Redhat, simply because it is the most compliant of distributions. It doesn't always have the features that SuSE does, but in the end, Redhat gets the job done for me.

Re:Mandrake is crap . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496203)

Hello !

If RedHat "complies" with hardware, that's because they make the manufacturers pay for it,
which is only commercial and not better than Microsoft. One of the biggest reason to user Linux, contradictory with RedHat, then.

And the real compatibility is the *same* in all
distributions, SuSE being even a lot better than Redhat. A friend of me has SuSE and I was surprised by the big list of supported TV cards.

But if you speak "serious" as you seem to say, then the most "serious", professionnal distribution is *Debian*.

Conclusion, there is something for everyone, from begginner (Mandrake, SuSE) to professionnal use (SuSE, Debian) and experts (Debian) and this is good...

BTW to answer prescisely to your assumption I had
to try Mandrake (latest version) and it was very good. It was like SuSE was 2-3 years ago "very good but not totally mature", while SuSE is now "mature" (Everything works perfectly)

Re:Mandrake is NOT crap . . . (2, Interesting)

dbucher (199847) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496226)

Hello !

If RedHat "complies" with hardware, that's because they make the manufacturers pay for it,
which is only commercial and not better than Microsoft. One of the biggest reason to use Linux, contradictory with RedHat, then.

And the real compatibility is the *same* in all distributions, SuSE being even a lot better than Redhat. A friend of me has SuSE and I was surprised by the big list of supported TV cards.

But if you speak about "serious" use, as you seem to say, then the most "serious", professionnal distribution is *Debian*.

Conclusion, there is something for everyone, from begginner (Mandrake, SuSE) to professionnal use (SuSE, Debian) and experts (Debian) and this is good...

BTW to answer prescisely to your assumption I had to try Mandrake (latest version) and it was very good. It was like SuSE was 2-3 years ago "very good but not totally mature", while SuSE is now "mature" (Everything works perfectly)

Why not windows??? (1)

Dukebytes (525932) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496050)

"Previous users of Windows are not eligible for a rebate."

Is it me - or is that really a bad idea... Why wouldn't you let someone upgrade from windows to RH and give them 10 bucks off.

The only thing that I can think of is they don't want the pressure from M$ that something like that would bring????

Re:Why not windows??? (3, Interesting)

erasmus_ (119185) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496081)

What kind of pressure can MS possibly exert if RH were to extend the rebate to Win OS users as well? MS can influence plenty of partners/customers, such as content providers, OEMs, and schools (not anti-MS necessarily, just saying that they do have a great deal of influence), but what can they do to a Linux company?

IANAL, but I can offer upgrades from anything I want for a product - in fact MS has frequently offered discounts for competitive upgrades. Eg from Notes to Exchange, or WordPerfect Suite to Office.

So I think the real reason for this move is clearly to win over current Linux users, not those of Windows. And as someone pointed out, this will hardly grow the market overall, but perhaps might do something for RH's revenue.

Hmmm (2, Insightful)

Apreche (239272) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496052)

The fact that there are so many different flavors of linux has its pros and cons which we all know about. But why are they competing against each other? The open source community should be one group of like minded people fighting to make open source a viable alternative to closed source, and making it recognized as such to a large number of people. RedHat should try letting people upgrade from windows to RedHat for free. People who are already using Mandrake or SuSe know what RedHat is like and choose their current distro for reasons such as better hardware compatability, better packages, etc. They aren't going to switch to RedHat. I switched out of RedHat to Mandrake. And I'm planning on trying out SuSe.

Re:Hmmm (1)

LostSinner (546906) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496204)

RedHat (and all the other distros) do let you upgrade from Windows for free... it's called going out and downloading it.

Only $10?!? (1, Flamebait)

madirish2600 (149913) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496055)

When was the last time you compared the price of RH with other distros? Ten bucks is a pretty sorry incentive for what ammounts to little less than pretty red packaging and some stickers :(

Re:Only $10?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496094)

When did RedHat start costing $200 for the Professional version. That is incredibly expensive for a product that you can download for free. They aren't going to get much business with what they have going on there.

Re:Only $10?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496222)

RH give away sticker!!!!!

dude....I am definatly going over there since SUSE (I heared) is not shipping them with 8.0

What's the Incentive? (2, Flamebait)

CynicTheHedgehog (261139) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496056)

I paid $80 for SuSE. I don't have to do that with RedHat--the ISOs are already free. Why would I want to switch? Obviously I have compelling reasons to use SuSE, or I wouldn't have forked over $80. Dumb move by RedHat in my opinion--just gives me one less reason to use their distro.

Re:What's the Incentive? (2)

rnd() (118781) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496202)

please share with us your compelling reasons for using Suse. I tried it 2 years ago and I didn't like it as much as RH or Mandrake. I'm interested to know what is so great about it that makes you willing to put down $80 for it.

Why I still get annoyed with Redhat during install (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496062)

The KDE desktop environment is always disabled by default in the custom installation but the GNOME one isn't-- I think this is true for all installation paths.
People switched to Mandrake essentially because of this (the attention they give to KDE) and because of the attention Mandrake gives to the 'extras' that give their workstation installation a ton of stuff people can play with after a first install.
Redhat needs to put KDE at the same level as GNOME and include an extras option that installs itself easily with all those little fun/useful appliations (like kvirc) that make a new user's experience so much more enjoyable.

Re:Why I still get annoyed with Redhat during inst (2)

ZaMoose (24734) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496109)

Ummmmmm, no. If you do a "Custom" install (i.e., not "Server", "Workstation", etc.), then you are given the choice of KDE, GNOME or both (as well as wm, fvwm, and E, if they float your boat) to install. When you are prompted for your X Configuration at the end of the install, you can choose your default resolution, whether to boot into graphical mode (gdm) by default, and whether to use KDE or GNOME as your default GUI. So cut the FUD.

"Disabled". Hah. All you need to do is check a bloody checkbox in your package selection.

I just sownloaded the 7.3 iso's. . . (3, Funny)

Limburgher (523006) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496063)

If I send them my download logs and a pdf copy of my SuSE installation guide, do I get my $10?

What if I download the iso's a second time? :)P

Windows Rebate (2, Insightful)

jadenjahner (529182) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496072)

It would make more sense to offer the rebate to current Windows users, since Red Hat needs to gain users from Windows, not from another distro. Red Hat is realizing their market slip even more to Mandrake and SuSE, but they should all be fighting to increase the Linux desktop market, notover current users. Chances are, the person already tried Red Hat, so they will not go back to it from SuSE, or even Mandrake, for that matter. Perhaps Red Hat forsees the Desktop market slowing for Linux.

Re:Windows Rebate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496088)

They will not get users from windows anyway, but they are lusing users to Mandrake and SuSe.

Breakfast (-1)

Guns n' Roses Troll (207208) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496078)

My breakfast is the other half of the large meatball and sausage sub with roasted peppers I had for lunch yesterday. I left it in a desk drawer here at work. Luckily the janitors and mice didn't nibble on it too bad.

Admission (0)

ThePlague (30616) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496080)

Isn't offering the rebate to current users of other Linux distros and not to Windows users a tacit admission that the only way they can increase their base is by converting present users rather than introducing new? Basically they are saying that the total Linux market share is as big as it's going to get, so the only way to increase their own is by having people within that subset switch to their own distro. So begins the feeding frenzy!

Upgrade (2, Funny)

xactoguy (555443) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496083)

What??? You mean I can't upgrade Win XP Pro to RedHat 7.3? Is it because Win XP sucks so bad that they don't even want to let the non-l33t people come up? ;)

Why I Won't Use RedHat (Even Though It's Good) (2, Interesting)

danro (544913) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496085)

I won't use Redhat, or for that matter any linux distribution based in the US. It doesn't matter if they are good (and Redhat is) or if they offer me a rebate, or even a free boxed set.

The reason I won't is that I don't trust people like the senator from Disney (Hollings).
I think there is a real chance that oss will be outlawed or at least restricted in nasty ways in the US in the next five years.
Especially if Linux makes a dent in the desktop market. (Microsoft isn't widly known for it's scruples... and it they start losing serious money and marketshare they might be tempted to side with the **AA's.)
And I don't want my distribution to go down in flames because of a bought-and-paid-for law.

So I'll stick to European distributions. (As if my sig didn't give that away already...)
At least until such a time as the US lawmakers get their shit together.

Re:Why I Won't Use RedHat (Even Though It's Good) (2, Informative)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496128)

RH has offices in England, and if you think that the other Linux companies will not offer an easy upgrade path if RH is ever put out of business by such a law, you are crazy.

RH has such a big hunk of the market that all the distros would be fighing for the market.

Re:Why I Won't Use RedHat (Even Though It's Good) (3, Insightful)

jaavaaguru (261551) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496218)

Go Mandrake today!

Any which distro do you think Mandrake is based on? Are you not slightly worried that if RH goes down, then a lot of the development work that made mandrake what it is today, will also cease - therefore there will be less of the cool advances that RH made?

Anyway, if the company goes down, their software won't it's open and free. You can still install an up-to-date Kernel, a new version of Gnome or KDE, and whatever else you like on it. It's not like what would happen if MS stopped producing Windows updates.

why? (2, Flamebait)

GutBomb (541585) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496087)

Why suse and mandrake. The two biggest desktop oriented linux distros cen be "upgraded" to the ... desktop sufficient at best RedHat? Almost osunds as bad as "upgrading" my debian to Windows 3.1

Re:why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496113)

I still remember when the DOS 6.2 installer found the OS/2 partition and suggested an upgrade to DOS :-)

great news (-1, Troll)

tps12 (105590) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496105)

Before modding me down based on the subject, please consider my ideas. I think you'll find that I'm actually in agreement with the greater geek community.

Now, one thing that the Linux community has been battling for a while now is what exactly "Linux" is. We all know the answer: it is a kernel, or a microkernel to be more precise, which combined with the GNU macrokernel is an entire operating system. Add in X and you have a distro[bution]. Simple, really.

But America doesn't get it. When you say Linux, they want to know the stock symbol and the CEO. I know we have all read Linus's great rant "The Cathedral and the Bizarre," but the fact is, when it comes to winning over the Windoze crowd, what we lack is a single representative for our movement. There is a lot of wasted effort as companies like Red Hat and Mandrake invest billions annually attempting to make Linux remotely usable for the average user. If one of these companies could be absorbed into the other, or just defeated in the market, then we'd see a much healthier Linux product that can finally compete with Windows.

Again, apologies for not repeating the slashbot "party line," but I guess I will just have to take a chance with the karma.

Re:great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496162)

Linux is NOT a microkernel, BY DEFINITION. It's a monolithic kernel - all device drivers reside in the same memory space. Plus, it's crap at message-passing, which is what microkernels (except Mach, the single worst microkernel ever) usually do well.

Re:great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496167)

Isn't "Cathedral & Bazzar" Eric Raymond not Linus?

Re:great news (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496168)

Linux is not a microkernel, infact Linus HATES microkernels, the simplicity of the parts requires a lot of complexity in the communication.

Linux is a monolithik kernel.

Re:great news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496189)

Linus didn't write The Cathedral and the Bizarre, Linux isn't a microkernel based system, it's a monolithic kernel, RedHat and Mandrake are far from billion dollar companies, and competition is healthy.

In a word, NO.

NO! No! no! NO! (2)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496212)

What we need is to stop fighting amongst ourselves and start promoting our products. At one point in time each Linux dist will specialise in a certain market and can customise its distro for that market then we will have OSS for all.

Re:great news (1)

mrscorpio (265337) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496224)

That's exactly the mentality that Microsoft, and to some extent Apple, WANT you to have.

It is a good thing to have many different flavors of the same thing! You can pretty much get almost all the same software working pretty easily on Red Hat, Mandrake, SuSE, Slackware, Debian, etc. They all have different "proprietary" features that interest different people. Maybe you like Mandrake because it bundles a DVD player or its xyzdrake-type programs. Maybe you like Red Hat because you can go to Barnes and Noble and buy a book about it, rather than relying on online documentation. Maybe you like Yast in SuSE. Maybe you like Debian's security-oriented mindset and don't need USB, so the 2.2 kernel is fine. Linux distros don't have to fall in the trap of being all things to all people, but instead can concentrate on doing a few things very well.

Most of the world feels that there is only one OS (and company) for x86 hardware, and this severely hinders competition and innovation. Don't force the Linux community to follow the same conventions, because then there's no reason for an alternative in the first place.

Chris

Re:great news (1)

grylnsmn (460178) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496227)

I know we have all read Linus's great rant "The Cathedral and the Bizarre,"

Linus didn't write "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", Eric S. Raymond [tuxedo.org] did. Linus is not very involved in the politics of Open Source. He's said many times that he doesn't WANT to be.

But America doesn't get it. When you say Linux, they want to know the stock symbol and the CEO.

No, America doesn't want to know the stock symbol, et al. Most Americans (who have heard of Linux) think of it as a single product, not a company. The thing that they don't understand is that it is a single product with multiple manufacturers/distributors.

Enlightenment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496108)

I will only use redhat when Enlightenment becomes the default manager again....till then its debian...

Wow, that sounds like a great deal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496112)

I've got a better one. How about Red Hat pays me $10 to keep using their distro after displaying such underhanded business practices, and I won't switch to Suse or Mandrake. Now I know why my friend calls Red Hat the M$ of the Linux world.

wait one cotten-pickin moment here (2, Insightful)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496115)

all you people complain about competition with MS (and yes, I agree with you on that) but then you turn around and you hurang RH for competeing!!

you have got to be consistent here, what does competition do? it puts weaker companies out of business and lets the creme rise to the top. one good thing about the Linux world is that there will always be competition as the GPL provides everyone with the same code and a lock out is impossable.

there is nothing wrong with what RH is doing.

About the window rebate (1)

dmouritsendk (321667) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496117)

Redhat obviously feels that getting rid of that big bloaty pile off poo of a OS is enough of a reward for the user.

No Windows Rebate No Surprise (1, Troll)

hooded1 (89250) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496123)

Many people here on slashdot don't seem to understand that linux CANNOT compete with Windows on the desktop market. MS has been in this business for a long time. They have spent billions of dollars on research and public opinion polls. They know what the people want more than any linux distro does. The best linux can do is to copy them, steal their ideas. I imagine that the people at Redhat have realized this and thus aren't trying to go for the windows population, instead they go for people who they know already use linux.

always there to remind me (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496125)

Everytime I install RH, I am reminded why I choose to use SuSE instead.

what's with all the similar user #'s? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496130)

why are all the user #'s so close together? very interesting... i'd guess someone (or some company...) got a whole bunch and has a bit of an agenda here. stay tuned...

Re:what's with all the similar user #'s? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496152)

those are post numbers numbnuts

Better than any Slashdot poll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496134)

Red Hat's rebate offer is better than any
Slashdot opinion poll wrt to market share.
What other reason would Red Hat have to offer
such a rebate than that SuSE and Mandrake
take away too much market share from them in
the US ?

I think this is a good sign... (1)

NNKK (218503) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496135)

I think this is a good sign. It shows that Red Hat thinks there's enough of an installed base of Linux servers and desktops that there's room for some direct competition between major distributions.

Though I do think a rebate for previous users of Windows might have been a good idea.

(Personaly, I'm not fond of Red Hat, but I'm not fond of Mandrake or SuSE either.)

Great Money Making Opportunity!!! (1)

toupsie (88295) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496141)

Since I download ISOs of Mandrake, burn 'em and install them, I can just call up RedHat and see if they will give me $10 for each set of RedHat 7.3 ISOs I download instead. Nothing better than watching a price war over a free operating system.

Windows users incentives to switch to Linux (3, Informative)

dkh2 (29130) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496146)

  1. No BSOD
  2. You typically only HAVE to reboot to switch kernels. No reboot just because you upgraded a package
  3. You can remove the internet browser and not break the OS
  4. Upgrades tend to be free
  5. Technical support does not cost $50USD/instance and $9.95/minute plus long distance charges

Need I go on?

Re:Windows users incentives to switch to Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496179)

On the other hand, MS has substancial income because they charge for their products. In turn they can spend 4 billion dollars yearly just on research and development to deliver usable products witch hairy student obviously can't deliver.

Re:Windows users incentives to switch to Linux (2)

Peyna (14792) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496199)

You almost made a valid statement, sir troll. It's too bad you can't spell or it might carry a little more weight. The hair student thing was a bit uncalled for as well.

Microsoft might have all that money to spend on R&D, but that doesn't mean it is well spent or used. Look at the money to US Government wastes on projects and R&D, and it doesn't always result in anything good. They put a lot of money into security and what not, but it doesn't seem to work. Having more money to work with can give you an advantage, but only if you use it wisely.

Re:Windows users incentives to switch to Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496225)

Excause me for not speaking English nativly, is that a crime asshole?

Something for nothing (1)

sehryan (412731) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496150)

So does this mean if I download the version for free, they will give me ten bucks?

Re:Something for nothing (2)

GutBomb (541585) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496183)

of course not

and to further clarify, you mus have the retail version of the "competing" distro to qualify. downloading a mandrake ISO is not enough to get the rebate.

Eligibility (3, Interesting)

jaavaaguru (261551) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496164)

Previous users of Windows ARE eligible for upgrades, if they also used Mandrake or SUSE. It's not just ANY users of Mandrake and SUSE though - it's only those who have purchased a retail copy of the OS, in a box, with a manual. RedHat might give me $10 back for purchasing RedHAt 7.3 after purchasing Mandrake 8.2, but I'm saving even more money by not buying either. In the UK, you could buy Windows 98 for less than the price of these two OSs and the rebate. Just goes to show it's not easy to please everyone :-)

Re:Eligibility (3, Insightful)

Peyna (14792) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496181)

Or you download the RedHat ISOs and not pay anyone but the media manufacturer? I think that might be the 'cheapest' way if all you are considering is money.

Bad Tactic (1, Flamebait)

spineboy (22918) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496166)

Red Hat,like all companies, needs to make money - so you can't blame them. However this is a very short sighted tactic that will be bad for them and Linux in the long run. Stealing marketshare from other *nix distributions shows poor judgement, eventhough they seem to be your main competitor.
In order to gain marketshare, Linux must acquire NEW users, and avoid infighting. Having 3 or 4 distribs or 2 or more desktops is the best way to promote competition and to ensure fitness.
We must promote ourselves...Why? - because more people using Linux = more people writing/improving software.
The main reason I see that people don't switch to Linux is that they're scared to try it and screw up their system. Just show someone your desktop!!!!! Use it in front of them Let them play around on it..Install it on one of their old computers that they don't use.
Linux isn't hard it's just different...

Have to pay the bills.... (4, Insightful)

NetJunkie (56134) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496176)

Stealing customers? Underhanded business practices? WTF?!

People. Red Hat is in business to make money. That's it. Nothing more. If you really think any of the commercial Linux distros have their top priority at promoting open source you are crazy.

My guess is that people aren't jumping from Windows to Linux as well as people had hoped. So, in that case, how do you expand your market share? Easy. You get more people on your distro than other distros. Makes sense to me. Then once you get them on your distro hopefully they'll keep buying YOUR upgrades. Competitive upgrades have been around a LONG time. I think it's a smart move for Red Hat to do this.

Bills have to get paid. Employees have to eat. That's the way things work.

Re:Have to pay the bills.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3496206)

Agreed, but what Linux companies really should be doing is to upgrade their business-models to something realistic instead of:

1: Write free software
2: Give it away
3: /*FIXME: What to do here?*/
4: Profit!

screw all linux companies! (4, Funny)

President Chimp Toe (552720) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496182)

Oh, how my trollish side comes out whenever i log onto slashdot......

1. Buy SuSe 7.3

2. Buy redhat, and get $10 dollar rebate.

3. Return both, pocketing yourself a whopping 10 dollars

easy money...

This is Business (1)

cdjfelton (569462) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496208)

Come on! This is business, not morning public television kids. Red Hat, Mandrake, and SuSE are all competition. And offering a rebate is hardly underhanded. What you crying about is that you don't want distros be real businesses. Plus, it is pretty pathetic that people will use this as a sour grapes platform for (insert your favorite distro here). It is terrible to see people stoop to lying just for their favorite distro with comments like "Red Hat is the M$ of the Linux world". Red Hat is where it is today because they have made the right moves at the right times. Why is their success such a lightning rod to some losers?

Don't bitch, just download the ISOs (1)

FIRESTORM_v1 (567651) | more than 11 years ago | (#3496223)

I am tired of hearing people bitch about Redhat v. Mandrake v. Suse v. Caldera v. LFS v. whatever...

If you aren't sure of something, download the ISOs burn them to CD, try it out on a box that is not a critical box, and have at! If you like it then great, build a more critical box and install it there. if not, then fdisk the HD and try some other distro! It's not windows for crying out loud so you can try whatever you want!.

Personally, I run RedHat but I like Mandrake because it is a little more user-friendly then RH is but that doesn't mean that I am All-Redhat. It depends on what you're going to do with it..

If you're REALLY tired of all these distros then why not try Linux From Scratch.. (hehe talk about stripped down) http://www.linuxfromscratch.org
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