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Preview of Mac OS X 10.2

pudge posted more than 12 years ago | from the jaguars-are-really-just-short-leopards dept.

OS X 94

andrew writes "Some developers have written to the USA Register to share some of the changes and new features in the Mac OS X 10.2 beta released at WWDC (codenamed Jaguar). The story outlines some performance enhancements as well as changes to both Finder and Dock; there are a few screenshots as well." Update: 05/13 22:22 GMT by P : More screen shots! Zo0ok writes "Think Secret has a bunch of screenshots and a description of new features in Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar)."

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Dweezil sez: (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3509839)

shoogagoogagunga (shoogagoogagooga)

os X has stagnated already! (-1, Troll)

tps12 (105590) | more than 12 years ago | (#3509859)

Man, this is bleak. OS X 10.0 was the first revolutionary change in the Mac OS since the transition from a flat filesystem to a hierarchical one (system 2? I'm not sure). 10.1 was a bug fix. Now with 10.2 it's back to minor interface tweaks. It is sad that OS X appears to have stopped developping. At least it gives Lin*x desktops another GUI to emulate...since M$ stopped innovating in '95, and GTKDE have pretty much got the Windows clone down to a science, it will give the OSS guys something to do. I guess I was just hoping that we would finally get out of the rut we've been in for a decade or so.

:(

Re:os X has stagnated already! (1)

Green Light (32766) | more than 12 years ago | (#3509939)

I guess that you didn't read the article. This release is about PERFORMANCE!

From what everyone is saying (at least those who have used it), performance is incredibly snappy. This is what OS X users have been waiting for.

Re:os X has stagnated already! (1)

benh57 (525452) | more than 12 years ago | (#3509984)

The article is crap. He doesn't even mention the best features of 10.2. (like quartz extreme)

Re:os X has stagnated already! (3, Informative)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510633)

I think it's worth noting, though, that almost no Macs purchased in the last year or two can use Quartz Extreme to its fullest potential because that requires 32mb VRAM.

Apparently performance improvements go way, way beyond Quartz Extreme since reports are saying the system's fast even on G3 iMacs with minimal VRAM.

D

Re:os X has stagnated already! (4, Informative)

spicyjeff (6305) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510983)

Actually those Quartz Extreme facts are not quite right, here are the hard requirements:


AGP 2x or faster
ATI Radeon or better
nVidia GeForce2 or better


If you have those your 10.2 install will use Quartz extreme. However, 32mb VRAM is recommended for optimal performance. If you don't have 32mb some of the more complicated features might be disabled or scaled back.

Re:os X has stagnated already! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3511976)

Does this include PCI Radeon though?

Re:os X has stagnated already! (2)

spicyjeff (6305) | more than 12 years ago | (#3513405)

No, it does not include PCI cards. They must be AGP 2x or faster.

Re:os X has stagnated already! (2)

phyxeld (558628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514211)

So my new ibook (that fedex should be delivering in the next few hours) with an AGP 2x 8mb ATI RAGE Mobility 128 is not included? Wah!!

I can deal with the current speed of Quartz; I just hope the new version doesn't run slower on machines with older (yet still shipping!) video cards.

Re:os X has stagnated already! (3, Informative)

spicyjeff (6305) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514550)

Don't worry it won't, I've seen it with my own eyes on old hardware and it is indeed faster. The only bad thing I've seen so far is that its due "late summer".

Re:os X has stagnated already! (1)

Alan Partridge (516639) | more than 12 years ago | (#3511595)

I'm not sure that that's fair. My machine is a G4 450 dual with a Radeon 32MB. This was a stock item, almost 2 years ago and cost me around £1900 direct from Apple. IIRC, the BTO upgrade from the Rage 128 to the Radeon was around £100, and available on ALL G4s (including the Cube). If you bought a G4 in the last 2 years and DIDN'T get a decent video accelerator then it's YOUR fault.

Re:os X has stagnated already! (5, Informative)

d0n quix0te (304783) | more than 12 years ago | (#3509956)

Not! A lot of the action in Jaguar is going to be behind the scenes. the Reg article only focuses on the Finder/Dock because these guys are classic (OS 9) freaks who are more concerned about form (looks) than function.

Here's a better preview of Jaguar
http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/

To summarize here are some of the big changes in Jaguar

Architecture: BSD 4.4, CUPS, PAM, POSIX additions, GCC 3

Networking: Rendezvous (ZeroConf), IPSEC, IPv6, Exchange Support (this is a biggie)

FileSystem: Active Directory, Open Directory, seamless SMB support (client/server)

Media: Full MPEG-4 support, AAC audio, 5.1 support. ISMA 1.0 support.

Universal Access: Boatload of innovation here.

Quartz Extreme: Full OpenGL compositing of movies and pix and text.

Apps: Upgraded Mail (exchange support), semantics based Mail filtering. iChat, Systemwide Database, new AddressBook, Sherlock 3

Inkwell: The best handwriting recognition in the world (from Newton) comes to OS X

User Interface improvements: Integrated find in the Finder. Find by name and find by text in a finder window. This is huge! Quickdraw text over Quartz. Many, many finder tweaks bringing it on par with OS 9 experience and imho way beyond.
And of course, a speed boost through and through.

Also, I am sure Steve is going to demo some more new features at Macworld NY. I am sure there is going to be a lot of surprises at that show.

BSD 3.4 vrs 4.4? (2, Interesting)

Bwanazulia (126541) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510353)

It has been asked a few times and maybe some /.ers can finally put it to bed. What can we expect with 10.2 coming inline with BSD 4.4? Features? Unix Tools? Bash? What?

Re:os X has stagnated already! (1)

usr122122121 (563560) | more than 12 years ago | (#3512166)

Inkwell: The best handwriting recognition in the world (from Newton) comes to OS X
I sure hope they fixed it up a bit first...
There was a really funny T-Shirt about Newtons messing up handwriting...
Rather than misquoting, does anyone know what I'm talking about who can share?

Re:os X has stagnated already! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3512710)

fuck off you ignorant cunt

Re: Handwriting recognition jokes (1)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | more than 12 years ago | (#3527918)

Doonesbury used to really rip on the Newton. Maybe you could find an old strip.


Not quite a Newton, but Newton inspired. Ratbert wanted to be Dilbert's PDA. Write on his tummy, and his handwriting recognition would see the phrase, and he'd remember it. Dilbert picked him up, started scribbling. Ratbert reads it "Weave me a cone, yew cupid bat".


And actually the later Newton's were much better at it, from what I remember.

Code name, Jaguar (code name, asshole) (-1, Troll)

Laplace (143876) | more than 12 years ago | (#3509985)

Check out the story further down on the apple.slashdot.org main page, in particular this link [macthis.org] . Are the Apple people assholes or what?

Re:Code name, Jaguar (code name, asshole) (0, Offtopic)

LeapingGnomeArs (561240) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510016)

Exactly why are they assholes? Sounds to me like the people that signed an agreement and then violated it are assholes.

I wish I could mod this down (0, Troll)

kwerle (39371) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510149)

As troll, ignorant, redundant.

Re:I wish I could mod this down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3510220)

Very well, I'd be happy to mod you down, as you've added nothing to this discussion.

some notes I had (5, Informative)

jeffehobbs (419930) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510156)


The Good:

Hey, those are some nice cursors!

The install process has an "archive and install" option which presumably backs up your old "System" folder and puts a nice new fresh one in there. That's nice.

The "optimization" phase of the install has a percentage meter now instead of vague indeterminate values.

First impression after install: It's f-a-s-t. Very, very fast.

The dock is missing the stripes, and it looks much better that way.

The Eject key now pops up a translucent eject key icon like brightness and volume.

Flurry is a standard "Screen Effect" now. Not a screen saver, mind you; a "Screen Effect".

The new Address Book is very nice looking, works well. In a thoughtful nod to outside the US, there's lots of different ways to display address info depending on what your country's conventions are.

The "BlackLight-esque" reverse gamma effect is greyscale, very creepy in a "Tales From The Darkside" way, but cooler than "Blacklight", as all the blue doesn't have it's gamma values reverse to ugly orange.

It's not as creepy as "ZoomView" which lets you zoom the screen way, way big. It's a neat effect though. I thought it was going to be more vector scaling, but it's a raster scale.

Speaking of smooth raster scaling, the Finder? Sm-o-o-o-th. The new window scaling open/close animation is awesome -- it makes me feel like I live in the future.

"Enable Access For Assistive Devices"? What's that?Sounds interesting.

They have finally admitted that AppleTalk can only be used on one network port at a time, i.e. if you've set it to AirPort, your machine won't show up on the Ethernet AppleTalk network.

Icon scaling now shows what the pixel count of the scaling value you've set is (32x32, 48x48, 128x128, etc.); very nice, this was one of my complaints from the public beta. The idea that my icons might be 49x49 was keeping me up at night.

"Snap to Grid" gently glides any dropped icons into grid position.

Software Update keeps a tidy list of what you've installed.

There's a forward button in the Finder.

Finder spring loaded folders' icon pop "open" when you hover a file over them.

Mail.app (1.2v517) is very, very nice. It's got the rules of Eudora and the junk mail filters of Entourage plus it's neatly integrated with iChat. This is the Mail.app version that I hope will win your heart, like it's won mine.

iChat looks ok to me, I dunno, I don't use IM that much. Maybe this will change that. It's sure got a nice icon and lots of options.

Disc Copy now mounts images concurrently.

Apple System Profiler and Print Center are now pretty lil' Cocoa things.

The Bad (glaring problems that remain from 10.1.x):

The built-in spell check dictionary is still fairly inadequate. There's lots of words missing.

The system boots from a cold start faster than 10.1.4, but still not what I'd call "fast".

The Ugly (problems specific to 10.2 preview that seem likely be fixed upon actual release):

There are some odd junk graphics and redraw problems that appear when you wiggle windows around or drag parts of them offscreen. No doubt this is the "EXTREME!!!" part of Quartz Extreme. I kid Quartz Extreme, I really do.

Energy Saver powers down the monitor but won't power it up so much.

Some 3rd party apps just refuse to work.

In short: "Awesome work Apple!" This is going to be a kick ass release.

~jeff

Great report, thanks! (2)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510607)

What third-party applications haven't worked for you?

That seemed like the only probematical part of the report, so it got me curious.

D

Re:some notes I had (1)

MrMiyagi (141580) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510685)

Hey,

What system are you running on? My guess is that you're using Quartz extreme on a pretty heavy duty computer. I wonder if there will be similar speed updates for

Re:some notes I had (2)

sg3000 (87992) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510979)

Thanks for the details.

How does it run compared to Mac OS 9?

Re:some notes I had (1)

dwaxman (530475) | more than 12 years ago | (#3511129)

Your review is pretty easy to follow and interesting but I am left to wonder how it will compare on my Macintosh. What are you running on?

Does Jaguar do this? (1)

lprimak (538633) | more than 12 years ago | (#3511333)

When the ScreenLock is activated, can I finally log in as another user? ala XP or ala Linux virtual screen. This is the only thing missing from the "Perfect" version of MacOS X? still?

Mail needs threads! (2)

SeanAhern (25764) | more than 12 years ago | (#3512301)

The one thing that will keep Mail.app from being my default mail program is the absence of threads. Add that, and I'm there, dude.

Re:Mail needs threads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3514488)

I think you may be making the switch then... I believe threaded messages has been added.

Re:Mail needs threads! (1)

tupps (43964) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514754)

Which part of the mail app doesn't use threads?

I know I can read my mail while it is checking/indexing my mail.

It seems to read mail accounts a little slower than Eudora though.

Re:Mail needs threads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3517634)

You are an eediot. Although, I made the same mistake at first, too. I wonder what that makes me.

Threads where (2, Informative)

SeanAhern (25764) | more than 12 years ago | (#3518324)

I don't mean a multithreaded app.

I mean tracking the threads of an email conversation.

Re:some notes I had (2)

hysterion (231229) | more than 12 years ago | (#3512588)

  • Mail.app (1.2v517) is very, very nice. It's got the rules of Eudora and the junk mail filters of Entourage plus it's neatly integrated with iChat. This is the Mail.app version that I hope will win your heart, like it's won mine.
The Mail.app that will win my heart is the one that will be a MailAndNews.app. Save a newsgroup reply in an imap mailbox with drag'n'drop! if ever there was a place where integration can be useful, this is it.

Why are Mozilla and mutt/pine/emacs the only (free, OS X) ones to understand it?

Re:some notes I had (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3514123)

Why are Mozilla and mutt/pine/emacs the only (free, OS X) ones to understand it?

Evolution doesn't run under XDarwin I take it?
(I don't know, thats why I ask)

Re:some notes I had (4, Insightful)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 12 years ago | (#3512724)

The system boots from a cold start faster than 10.1.4, but still not what I'd call "fast".

Why do people (it seems particularly prevalent in Mac users) have this obsession with boot times ? I can understand why back in the days of MacOS Classic and regular reboots why it would have been an issue, but why are people rebooting their OS X boxes often enough for it to be of anything more than curiosity value ? Is it just an "old habits die hard" thing causing you to reboot so often ?

Re:some notes I had (1)

twiztidlojik (522383) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514559)

I have no clue. I've not rebooted my powerbook for several months now, and it runs fine. I've probably screwed up the /etc/rc file so it does prebinding at startup or something odd, long and arduous like that. Come to think of it, I need to defragment my HD.

But, back on topic, try booting from OS 8.1 from a RAM disk. Superspeedyzoomfast! Or, you could just run the darwin layer at startup and get a very fast startup speed.

Re:some notes I had (1)

dadragon (177695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514645)

why are people rebooting their OS X boxes often enough for it to be of anything more than curiosity value ? Is it just an "old habits die hard" thing causing you to reboot so often ?

I use a laptop. I regularly shut it down, or put it to sleep, but when plugged in (usually only on weekends) it's never shut down.

You should, however compare the times it takes OS9 to come out of sleep to OSX.

Re:some notes I had (2)

doooras (543177) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514988)

I've had my iBook(500) running almost continuously since I bought it last September. The ONLY time I have rebooted was to install the 10.1 update. The damn thing is like a rock. Eight months without even a hint of a problem. I wish I could say that about my XP and SuSE 7.2 boxen.

Re:some notes I had (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3519643)

I wish I could say that about my XP and SuSE 7.2 boxen

boxes

Re:some notes I had (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3522164)

OS 9? Try OS 7.0.1 on a PowerBook 100.
Instant. No perceptible delay. Add in
ClarisWorks 1.0, and you can even turn off
the hard disk most of the time. Ahh, those were
the days back in high school...

Re:some notes I had (1)

Erik K. Veland (574016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3515347)

Perhaps some people have frequent power-failures? That happened to me once, but then I figured: Heck, I'll try this thing called outside, that sounds promising.

Re:some notes I had (1)

ChristTrekker (91442) | more than 12 years ago | (#3522783)

System instability is not the only reason to restart a system. Many people like to conserve power, as well. If the machine has a good sleep mode, this is probably not an issue.

Re:some notes I had (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3515663)

spell checking in X is horrid. for example it misses when i mispell the as teh. This seems like it should be a simple thing to improve. It also would be nice if the spelling libray was truly system wide. Its stupid that when i add a new word to my libray within Mail.app it isnt avalibe to textedit.

I want one of those macs.. but.. (2, Offtopic)

josepha48 (13953) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510597)

At this point I just can't justify a new computer. I have 3 pcs and a laptop as it is, and need to get rid of at least 1. If I don't get laid off and the company I am working for does not go out of business and my pay cut (everyone got one) turns into a pay raise then maybe.

I played with a Mac G4 with the wide flat screen and opened up the iMovie and it was attached to a camera and it was dreamy! The picture was at least 640x480 and there were no skips or bumps. The screen was awesome, but probably not good enough for gamers, but I don't care I don't do games. It looked like it would be really great for dvd movies too.

Sounds great to me! (1, Redundant)

AtaruMoroboshi (522293) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510651)


This sounds great! I use OS X as much as I can on my 500/66 g3 ibook with 256mb ram, though I do boot to 9 to use Logic Audio, Reaktor, and tons of virtual instruments.

My father runs a desktop publishing company and relies purely on macs. He has three on his desk even (including a cube and an ancient and upgraded power computing clone), and he sure likes to bitch about some of X. Font management is his #1 concern. And Mail.app is his #2.

He uses X on an 700 mhz G3 iMac, the other 7 macs are using OS 9.

Apple is doing amazing things these days. Let's hope the dual 1.4 gighertz G4s with fast DDRAM aren't just rumors!

.

Hey, I downloaded the Developers preview (1)

dcstimm (556797) | more than 12 years ago | (#3510959)

I downloaded the developers preview and it had problems with my PC geforce 2 mx (that works fine in 10.1 and 9.2. It will boot up and once it loads the background (or Quartz Extreme) they screen will turn grey. Even when I load the CD1 of the install cds it does the same thing. I had to put my old ATI video card back in. my Pc geforce 2 is a PNY Verto MX400 from compusa, it worked beautifuly with out flashing.. I hope this problem gets fixed. But its amazing!!!

Re:Hey, I downloaded the Developers preview (1)

Jack Auf (323064) | more than 12 years ago | (#3511410)

I downloaded the developers preview

From where exactly? I have an ADC membership and I can't find it on the site. Care to provide a link? (Or did you find it on a Carracho server somewhere ;-)

Re:Hey, I downloaded the Developers preview (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3511616)

I found it on Irc

Re:Hey, I downloaded the Developers preview (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3514152)

It's time to re-format the US government and re-install Democracy 1.0. The current installation is corrupt.

I agree with the sentiment, but I feel compelled to point out that the U.S. is not, and never has been, a democracy. The mere fact that you have to register to vote makes it not a democracy, and our representative system makes it more so. We are a republic, and a shitty one at that.

Imho, we need to install Socialism-OS-X, with a open-source core and a pretty interface. No need for dualboot -- we'll be wiping the facism partition clean.

Speed boosts? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3511587)

Anyone tried it on one of the earlier titanium powerbooks, the ones with only 16mb video memory? The new 'suggested system requirements' say 32 so I was curious if there is still such an 'enormous speed boost' and if all of the great things are still there to gain even on a 'non-suggested' computer.

Re:Speed boosts? (1)

Krach42 (227798) | more than 12 years ago | (#3542130)

I'm using it right now on my 500MHz PowerBook with a 16MB ATI Radeon.

It works great

10.2? (0)

Japanese Fuckslut (554887) | more than 12 years ago | (#3511686)

To the best of my knowledge, Apple has only presented this release as "Jaguar", "the next major release of Mac OS X". Nowhere have they stated "10.2". And I think it's premature to assume Apple will name it thus, since they might be able to better justify charging for a 10.5 release.

Personally, I hope they go with .2 rather than the rather arbitary ".5", but I suspect Apple will go with the latter.

Shows how much you know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3516143)

It's refered to as 10.2 everywhere, including apple's own site.

Bzzt wrong ... (2)

SteveM (11242) | more than 12 years ago | (#3516437)

Where exactly on Apple's site is it referred to as Mac OSX v10.2?

Steve M

how is non-extreme performance? (4, Interesting)

jfruhlinger (470035) | more than 12 years ago | (#3511708)

For anyone out there who has previewed 10.2 on a computer w/out adequate video hardware to support Quartz Extreme: have you noticed any slowdown compared to 10.1.x? I have a 450 MHz DP w/ 384 MB of RAM and an older video card; once I upgraded from 128 MB of RAM, OS X's UI became fast enough for my taste (tho I know others are grumpy about it). I'm drooling over all the 10.2 features but I don't want my experience to get any slower -- but keeping steady is OK!

jf

Re:how is non-extreme performance? (4, Informative)

bhamm (553532) | more than 12 years ago | (#3516999)

the speed is just fine.. I've got a PowerBook G4 550 with 512MB Ram and 16MB of video... and 10.2 (dev release) is indeed faster. Everything is faster, and it's not even beta yet. Remember, I (as many others) don't meet the 'suggested' video requirements for QE, but I'm telling you that my PowerBook now runs at speeds equivalent to OS9 without having full support for QE.. I was very pleasantly suprised, I wasn't expecting it to run so well with it being a dev release, and it will no doubt be even better at release... very exciting.. dont worry.. =) bri

It's great! (2, Informative)

ReblMonkey (579089) | more than 12 years ago | (#3521453)

The speed boost I've received by installing 10.2 can very well be described as amazing. I'm on a G3/450 with the oldskool 16MB Rage 128 running the new 10.2 developer release, and everything is unarguably faster for me. I don't know about this whole "Quartz Extreme" thing, but if must be pretty damn cool if I could get such a speed boost even without it being active (because my graphics card is so outdated).

This can only get better and better. A few 3rd party apps don't run, but the speed! Oh the speed!

imac issue (2, Insightful)

liloconf (560960) | more than 12 years ago | (#3513422)

I'm worried about this 10.2 release, everyone says its going to be great but I'm sitting here with my just bought old school imac g3/700 with its 16 meg video and 256 of ram, and am worried. Quartz extreme doesn't look like its going to run on my computer and I'm just wondering what happened to the OS updates that would make things run faster, not slower? My 3 pc's have been with me since win 98 and are all running XP with no slow down at all. I expect new games or graphics apps are the things I need to upgrade for not an OS release one month after I get my computer. When someone drops 2 grand on a computer With all the bells and whistles it should be OS upgradeable for years, or hell at least one.

Re:imac issue (2, Insightful)

Ster (556540) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514278)

Quoth liloconf
...My 3 pc's have been with me since win 98 and are all running XP with no slow down at all...

Come on now: no slowdown? I find that hard to believe. I admin a lab on my college campus, and we had a line of computers that came with 98SE or NT4. Of course, the university ordered them with NT, and of course we overwrote that with 98 so we could game! Eventually the university decided to standardize on XP Pro.
We tried the upgrade on the machines we had 98 on: it didn't go well. We had to upgrade the RAM on them to 256 to get reasonable stability without hitting swap every few minutes. Even then, the speed was not pretty.
So, I kind of doubt that your machines run XP without slowdowns, without upgrades.

Just my 2 cents,
-Ster

Re:imac issue (1)

jchristopher (198929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514282)

When someone drops 2 grand on a computer With all the bells and whistles it should be OS upgradeable for years, or hell at least one.

I'm not trying to flame you, but maybe now you understand why it's important to buy a computer with a socketed processor and a PCI/AGP slot?

Re:imac issue (1)

Shisha (145964) | more than 12 years ago | (#3520850)

I'm a x86 computer owner, but I don't think the upgrade philosophy works very well any more. There are just way too many improvements in too short time to justify modular computers.

e.g.
1, Want a new graphics card? But your motherboard can only do 4x AGP. That's not good enough...

2, Got old Pentium II processor? Like the sound of Pentium 4? Well sorry it won't fit into socket A... btw. thats about equivalent of upgrading from G3 to G4 processors

3, RAM, OK upgrading RAM is easy and arguably helps most, but ... you can do that with PC, iMac, iBook or laptop.

So in the end I think that modular design makes only sense for computers where you are likely to add 2nd sound card, TV card, SCSI card etc... If you have to upgrade motherboard, CPU, graphics, then you might as well get a new comp, and put the old one under the stairs to be mp3 / internet access server, or give it to your sister, girlfriend, housemate... New computer will be quiter (fans not worn out yet) and with guarantee.

Re:imac issue (1)

adrianm (100624) | more than 12 years ago | (#3535916)

I think the whole upgradability thing is a bit of a myth particularly with regard to processor. I have three home built systems under my desk 2 of them I cannot upgrade - they no longer make processors that will fit!!! And the third which I could upgrade I am unlikely too as I cant afford the cost hit. Yes, I upgrade memory. Yes, I can upgrade the Graphics but strangely never had - perhaps I am too mean but the cards in these machine were state of the art when I bought them - I cant just throw them away.

Re:imac issue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3515754)

If your iMac doesn't do the cut for Quartz extreme (it needs hardware T&L in the graphics card. 32 MB VRAM are just RECOMMENDED, so 16 MB Radeons for example will do mostly fine) it will run at least as fast as it used to (using the current graphics engine). Probably faster, as Quartz extreme isn't by far going to be the only optimization to the OS.

Hope that helps.

Re:imac issue, is not an issue at all (1)

geethree (38366) | more than 12 years ago | (#3516379)

I'm using OS 10.1.4 on a G3/400 iMac (2001) and I have to tell you that it rocks! If 10.2 offers better performance than what I'm getting now, I'll be very happy...

However... to make it do so, I bumped the RAM to 1gig and replaced the 10gig HD with a 120gig Western Digital 7200rpm drive. Maxing out the RAM and replacing the HD with a 7200rpm one made a _WORLD_ of difference in boot time as well as application performance.

For those that whine that their G3's and older G4's won't be 'fast enough', I offer that if you tweek them a bit, you will see performance that will make you smile. It's the best money I've spent yet.

--geethree

Re:imac issue (1)

bhamm (553532) | more than 12 years ago | (#3518657)

first.. Quartz Extreme isn't fully fully supported on my laptop either, but the dev release of 10.2 runs noticeably faster than 10.1.x, and this isn't even public beta yet. Jaguar will run better on your Mac than 10.1.x does, even without full support of QE.

secondly, if you expect that your G3 iMac 700 introduced in July of last year is supposed to somehow run the release of Jaguar comparable to other Macs also available last month (G4 tower, TiBook).. I can't really say much to that.

I'm not knocking your 700 iMac G3, it's a snappy box (probably as fast as my 550 PowerBook G4), and will likely run 10.2 just fine. If 10.2 (and later) was priority for you though, buying a G4 would've given you a longer lifespan, as I'm sure you are aware..

bri

What I want to see... (2, Insightful)

dadragon (177695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514070)

OS X.2 looks REALLY cool, but there is one thing that will probably never change. It's not a technical issue, but business practices at Apple.

They still sell "North American English" versions of their computers all over the continent. That's not so bad, until the speach recognition doesn't recognise "schedule" and "zed", to name a few.

It also doesn't know "colour", "realise", or "flavour" to name a few.

It would be quite easy for Apple to sell "US English" in the USA, and "International English" in Canada.

So why not?

Re:What I want to see... (1)

dadragon (177695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514081)

It also doesn't know "colour", "realise", or "flavour" to name a few.

Here I'm talking about the spell checker, not the speech recognition.

Re:What I want to see... (1)

twiztidlojik (522383) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514578)

Erm, try changing the languages. There's probably an international english dictionary for built in spellcheck floating around somewhere.

Re:What I want to see... (1)

dadragon (177695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514666)

Actually, I set the language to "British", which is close enough for my tastes, but I'm in Canada, we mix American and British spellings.

Anyhoo, It doesn't affect the spell checker or speech synthesis. Just the UI.

Maybe I can find the CA dictionary somewhere, I know ispell and aspell have one.

Re:What I want to see... (1)

inkswamp (233692) | more than 12 years ago | (#3521415)

This wouldn't be a problem if Canadians would stop pretending to be Europeans! ;^)

(I'm not trying to bait you--I have lots of Canadian friends and give them a hard time about that.)

I agree with you, BTW. Apple shouldn't make their "North American English" so U.S.-centric. The good thing is that they seem far more receptive to consumer comments nowadays than they ever have. I'll bet it would be worth your time to submit this suggestion to them. Apple has made no secret of the fact that they take great pride in the international capabilities of the Mac OS. It could very well be that not many people at Apple realize that Canadians incorporate so many British-isms into their parlance. I live near the border so it's obvious to me, but maybe it's not to a company much further away.

--Rick

Re:What I want to see... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3528158)

That's not so bad, until the speach recognition doesn't recognise "schedule" and "zed"

At least it recognizes "speech."

how do i burn a dmg on a pc? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3514445)

suppose for a moment that someone accidentally happened to find Jag_Dev_Seed_CD_1.dmg somewhere and downloaded it.

furthermore, suppose that they have an ibook only, with no mac cd-r. they do however have a few pc's with cd-r capabilities.

how would one go about burning a disk image to make a bootable cd? is it even safe to copy a disk image to a pc?

just , you know...asking. for a friend. yeah...

Re:how do i burn a dmg on a pc? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3514616)

You would first insert your thumbs into your ass. Then, you would run around, screaming "I've got my thumb up my ass!" After this, you would proceed to take your father up the ass and scream "Daddy! It feels so good! Yes! Oh! God!" After this, you would insert your arm up to the shoulder inside your mother's pussy, and then a Jag_Dev_Seed_CD_1 CD would come out. You would then proceed to shove every single PC up your ass and then take a picture and submit it to goatse.cx [goatse.cx] . This wouldn't help, but then I could see what stupid fuck would be gullible to ask for warezing directions on slashdot and then follow the directions of an AC. You stupid fuck.

Re:how do i burn a dmg on a pc? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3523002)

HELP ME PLEEEEAAAASSSEE! i tried following yor directions butt they dont work. if your going to try to help you shuld write better dude!! what a crapppy group this is you dont even say which arm to shove!!! you stink dude.

Re:how do i burn a dmg on a pc? (1)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514954)

One would attempt to burn it as an ISO image on a PC. Depending on the competence of the person who ripped it, it might work.

Re:how do i burn a dmg on a pc? (1)

ReblMonkey (579089) | more than 12 years ago | (#3521472)

The DMG burns as a "Disc Image" in Toast. (Which is how, um, my friend told me he burned it) I think it would follow that trying to burn it as an ISO might just be a good bet.

Re:how do i burn a dmg on a pc? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3527631)

open disk image, choose 'convert image'. choose dvd/cd format.

allow the conversion.

rename to whatever.iso

transfer to pc.

brn using nero. tada, bootable fucking jaguar cd.

worked beautifully.

i love me...i'm neat.

Inkwell (1)

jpellino (202698) | more than 12 years ago | (#3514707)

I'd sell my soul (or what's left of it after 16 years of parochial education) for a stylus that has something in it that makes the iBook trackpad think it's my finger.

Who's going to lug a tablet around just to have handwriting recogntion? If we can get by with graffiti on a teenie input space, perhaps we can get by with Inkwell if we had a stylus that can write on the area of a typical apple trackpad.

is this pie in the sky or within the realm...?

(yikes - i see now even my 1400's trackpad is about the size of the palm m1xx series lcd...)

Does It Allow For Remapping of CapsLock Key? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3515767)

I am in Apple's target market. I am a long-time Unix user. I appreciate quality! I lust after their laptops. But I just can't buy one, yet.

This is because I can't use their laptops' keyboards. I need the key to the left of the 'A' to be a Ctrl key. This is not just a want; it is a genuine need based upon ergonomic reasons.

Apple's cost to satisfy my keyboard desires is small: re-design their laptops to use USB keyboards just like the rest of their line. Unfortunately for all unix users, Apple hasn't done this yet. Their laptops still use the ADB keyboards, which are horribly broken-by-design. ADB keyboards are a vestage of the old insanely-bad input devices days, when Apple didn't have an industrial-strength unix core. Apple has been ignoring unix users' requests [google.com] for a usable keyboard for a very long time, so I don't expect them to change their ways, even though they now have a unix OS.

Apple: Please fix your laptop keyboards! Please re-design your laptop motherboards to use a modern up-to-date USB keyboard, to go along with your robust and mature modern up-to-date unix OS!!

Note: is is now possible to use the keyboard with Debian GNU/Linux [debian.org] , but as of yet, Apple has not made it possible for unix old-timers to use with OSX.

My standard rant follows:

Apple Laptop Keyboards are Unacceptable to Unix Users

Apple designs horrible keyboards. ADB keyboards (which are still used on all of Apple's laptops) are unusable to unix users who need a Ctrl key to the left of the 'A'.

Proper Keyboard Design

  • When a key is pressed, the keyboard sends a keyPress event.
  • When a key is released, the keyboard sends a keyRelease event.
  • Each key is assigned a different keycode.
Nothing more, nothing less.

ADB Keyboard Mis-design

  • When the key to the left of the 'A' (CapsLock) is pressed, the ADB keyboard sends both a keyPress event and a keyRelease event.
  • When the CapsLock key is then released, the ADB keyboard sends NO events.
  • When the CapsLock key is next pressed, the ADB keyboard sends NO events.
  • When the CapsLock key is then released, the ADB keyboard sends both a keyPress event and a keyRelease event.
  • The above cycle repeats over and over.
This is WRONG ! Apple's ADB keyboards are broken by design.

Unix Users Cannot Use Apple's ADB Keyboards

What this means is that unix users who need the key to the left of the 'A' to be a Ctrl key cannot use Apple ADB keyboards. You can easily reprogram the CapsLock key to be a Ctrl key and get rid of the badness of the CapsLock key, but you can't get the required goodness of the Ctrl key to the left of the 'A'.

Apple Loses Sales to Unix Users

All Apple laptops have the horrible broken-by-design ADB keyboards which are unusable to unix users. I want to buy an Apple laptop, but I cannot and will not until Apple builds input devices usable by unix users.

troll alert (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3516149)

I'm a long term Unix user (12 years all up) and I've had a power mac g4 for two years. Nothing you say above is true.

Why not just hack the keyboard circuity? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3516897)

It can't be that hard to cut a few tracks and rewire the keys. You sound desperate. Can't quite relate to your emotion myself, but good luck.

remember to post the instructions here.

Code names (0)

Asterax (522761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3516110)

I thought the code name Jaguar was for the new Quicktime 6, which is having problems (put nicely, without all the swearing) being released. Your saying Mac OS X 10.2 was also named Jaguar?

Re:Code names (1)

Niherlas (171927) | more than 12 years ago | (#3517670)

Nope - Jaguar's been the code-name for the pending OS X update for quite some time now. QuickTime 6 is to be integrated into the Jaguar release (and is being held by licensing issues)

Jaguar may be 10.5 (1)

Shadowmist (57488) | more than 12 years ago | (#3568596)

I'm suspecting that Apple is promoting the heck on this relese for a very good reason. It probably will not be released as 10.2 instead, sold as 10.5.

Tradiitionally.5 OS upgrades from Apple have never been free. (7.5, 8.5, etc.)

Any details on IPSec? (2)

staplin (78853) | more than 12 years ago | (#3516907)

Has anyone who's seen the preview comment on IPSec?

Do we get a lickable Cocoa interface, or is it dependent on the command line?

if they released it for PC (1)

excaliborg (579457) | more than 12 years ago | (#3519659)

i would buy it.

Re:if they released it for PC (1)

Paradise Pete (33184) | more than 12 years ago | (#3522978)

if they released it for PC i would buy it.

They should release an X Box OS X.
That's Ten, not X. No, the other one. That one's an X.

Re:if they released it for PC (1)

boyko (575916) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541553)

Unfortunately, the MacOS is likely to remain proprietary - the Mac simply wouldn't find a great market out there without the support of vendors.

There *is* Darwin for Intel - but since you can't actually run the Aqua interface, it's more like "yet-another-freeBSD" for the PC.

Why not try Linux? They're doing wonderful things with that nowadays.

Brian.

Firewire Booting (1)

ZorchKoala (579470) | more than 12 years ago | (#3520149)

I have a BUSlink firewire hard disk (not the most spectacular of toys), and it does not show up as a bootable drive under 10.1.x. Is there any indication that the bootability of my poor storage device might change with the release of that which we call Jaguar?

Re:Firewire Booting (1)

ZorchKoala (579470) | more than 12 years ago | (#3532725)

I find myself in a position to answer my own quiestion:
The problem is not with my drive, but with my machine, a PowerBook G3, which is not of the New World Architecture which allows for such things as firewire booting.

The installation log log (which is viewable as installation occurs, a thing I didn't know until just recently, although it may have been there in pre-Jaguar installers) very kindly told me that the OS I installed onto my firewire drive would not boot on Old World Machines. Then it gave me a lollipop and waddled off to finish installing.

I think I knew this before, but promptly forgot in the hopes that something might have changed.

It hasn't, but I now know that I can plug my Jaguar-loaded drive into any New World (iMac and newer) machine I come across, and boot into pre-releasey goodness.

-Zorch.

Quartz Extreme and PDF (4, Interesting)

sg3000 (87992) | more than 12 years ago | (#3523266)

Anybody care to comment on how Quartz Extreme will affect PDF performance, particularly viewing PDFs in Adobe Acrobat? I've noticed that under X, scrolling performance is just plain terrible.

Here's a comparison with the same 12 page PDF (a report from RHK on Internet bandwidth versus revenue for 2002 -- hey, I'm at work, you know! But the document is two columns, in color, and has plenty of charts)

800 MHz Dell Latitude (Windows 2000. 256 MB RAM, Acrobat Reader 5.0, scrolling on the internal LCD): 50 seconds

667 MHz PowerBook G4 (512 MB memory, Mac OS 10.1.4, Acrobat 5.0, scrolling on LCD, but with a second monitor connected): about 8.5 minutes.

Note that during this time, the Windows computer is scrolling the document fast enough that the text is blurry, and I didn't notice appreciable popup of the images, so it looked reasonably smooth.

Under Mac OS X, the scrolling was so slow, that I had to switch to the click-lock function on my mouse because my index finger got tired. Generally, the page would stop rendering about half-way through until the previous page completely disappeared off the screen. I don't recall Mac OS 9 being this bad.

Launching Classic and running Acrobat 4.0 on the same PowerBook, I got these results: scrolling on the internal CD (and this time, playing a MP3 in iTunes): 2.5 minutes.

Is this just Adobe making a crappy port of Acrobat to Mac OS X? Is it a lack of hardware acceleration? Is it a Carbon problem? At this point, I don't care what's causing the problem, but the performance just stinks and it makes OS X look bad.

Re:Quartz Extreme and PDF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3530305)

try the scroll test in preview, that will answer one of your questions.

MacOSX under consideration by the many? (1)

POds (241854) | more than 12 years ago | (#3528490)

MacOS X is definatly an OS a lot of people are going to consider switching too in the comming years...

For me, i love the Unix command line, and i am quite fond of BSD after being frustrated with Linux and its complexities...

BSD to me is a little more simplier (i like OpenBSD) and i love the small footprint of it. I dont live on Open Source operating systems, i use Windows mostly, because its freak'n easy and i dont have to screw arround to get my internal modem to work, or printing and so forth.

I would love to get an Amiga, however, they prolly wont be that usable for me until OS5 and thats WAY off :).

If i was looking to get a new computer in the comming year, i would seriously consider MacOSX as other geeks quite like me will also do. This is mainly due to the Unix Structure that i have come to admir(i love bash) and also Apples infomous user friendlyness.

It looks like to me this is a seriously powerful OS and one that is going to take the Geek community by storm. Hopfuly with time, average consumers will catch on!

Limerick (1)

TonyMillion (545370) | more than 12 years ago | (#3532179)

Apple said, "here's what we'll do", "We'll release OS ten point two", "The graphics are faster", "cos thats what you asked fer", If they're not then I think I will sue.

MultiLingual... (2)

sasha328 (203458) | more than 12 years ago | (#3548657)

I've just been told by a source at an Apple sales partner that the old languages covered by WorldScript will now again be featured in OSX. Previously only Japanese and (Chinese?) were included, but now the Eastern European and Middle Eastern languages will also be included. I hope this does not mean we still have to buy localised versions of the applications because they usually were twice as much as normal apps.
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