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2600 Appeal Rejected

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the down-but-not-out dept.

The Courts 273

blankmange writes "Wired is reporting that 2600's appeal has been rejected by a federal appeals court. "The Second Circuit Court of Appeals said in a one-line ruling that it was not going to revisit an earlier decision in which 2600 was found to be unlawfully distributing a DVD-descrambling utility. In January 2000, eight movie studios sued the legendary hacker quarterly for posting the DeCSS.exe utility, which decodes DVDs and allows them to be viewed on a Linux computer." The magazine now has 90 days to file a Supreme Court appeal." The Appeals court did not have to take the case, and they didn't. 2600 can appeal to the Supreme Court, but they don't have to take the case either - it's looking more and more as though Kaplan's ruling will stand.

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First post! (-1)

Cubeman (530448) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541303)

First post!

thats sad (0)

atari2600 (545988) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541307)

But the underdogs will always come out trumps..i mean seriously these companies are not making more money but can't someone make that "legit" - i mean take the Windows Operating system...DVD tools galore.

DECSS is obsolete (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541378)

Now there are much more powerful DVD decripting tools out there.

Monumental Court Decisions (-1, Troll)

CmdrTaco (editor) (564483) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541312)

It seems that this past week has been filled with some really significant appeals court decisions. First the ruling against anti-abortion website and now this. Certainly interesting times we live in.

One thing I find particularly alarming is the lack of public interest in cases such as these. I asked several people today about what they thought of the decision yesterday, and nobody knew what I was talking about. Anyone else feel frustrated by the general ignorance that is all to common in the American public. I mean, this is front page stuff here people, wake up!

Re:Monumental Court Decisions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541330)

their odds of prevailing might be better if they wait until public opinion -- driven by copy-protected CDs, for instance -- is more on their side.

This lack of public opinion was also seen in the recent Yahoo action of opting in all if its users to receive spam. The non present outcry showed, to them at least, that this was okay. If 2600 really does wait for public opinion to increase at all, let alone in their favor, it will be far past the 90 days to file a petition seeking a hearing of certiorari.

Re:Monumental Court Decisions (1, Insightful)

siasl33 (565927) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541352)

Rulers have known for ages. "Keep them entertained, their stomachs full, and control is assured". Move along, nothing to see here....tick...tick...tick.

winux? (3, Funny)

Ruliz Galaxor (568498) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541319)

"the DeCSS.exe utility, which decodes DVDs and allows them to be viewed on a Linux computer."

Now what? an .exe utility which is made for running under _windows_ and then I can view it on a _linux_ computer?
blargh... when you think you're finally done with the windoze thing, they come up with an .exe

Re:winux? (-1)

Drunken Coward (574991) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541342)

At least they don't say DeCSS.exe is a utility used by hackers to pirate DVD's and distribute them over the internet. They got the important part right, that it was designed to enable Linux users to play DVD's.

Re:winux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541540)

Sorry, DeCSS was released on Windows first, and was integrated into point-n-drool GUI "rippers" long before Linux could even properly read the DVD media.

Re:winux? (2)

cscx (541332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541531)

Like it would have made any difference if it was an ELF format? Yeah, DeCSS, the descr... uh, I mean, Linux DVD playing decoder software. =)

and this is a first for Hollywood!!?????? (2, Insightful)

atari2600 (545988) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541320)

From the article

This is hardly the first time that Hollywood and other DMCA proponents have won in court. A federal judge in New Jersey tossed out a case brought by Princeton University computer scientist Ed Felten, who claimed legal threats made by the recording industry unconstitutionally chilled his right to free speech
Is that something that Hollywood would be celebrating - this smells bad - real bad.

Re:and this is a first for Hollywood!!?????? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541489)

well here we are, computer code isnt free speech, video games arent free speech, but threats to sue and corporate donations to politicos are free speech, can anyone else hear the national toilet flush?

HAHA (-1)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541322)

Take that you dirty goat fucking hippies! I will continue to use a real OS with many legal DVD playing programs. DeCSS just dumps 4 gigs worth of *.vob files to your hard drive, tell me how that plays anything.

What a crock of shit (-1, Flamebait)

dh003i (203189) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541327)

The asshole at least owed us more than one line.

What a fucking prick.

Its all a crock of shit. The judges are owned by special interests. They don't represent the constitution or anything other than the new masters views.

A few more fucks to add to my list of people who should have been in the WTC instead of the 10,000 good, decent people who actually died.

OT reply... (0, Offtopic)

Profe55or Booty (540761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541341)

10,000 people? it was less than 3,000.

i'm just trying to figure out how they were estimating 20,000 at first.

and anyway, who says the people in there were good, decent people?

Re:OT reply... (1, Offtopic)

TheOnlyCoolTim (264997) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541364)

i'm just trying to figure out how they were estimating 20,000 at first.

They couldn't be sure how many people had gotten to work yet.


Re:OT reply... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541406)

And who says that they weren't good decent people?

Do you think that they were all evil infidels supporting the satan/american economic system?

They were office workers, programmers, securty guards, bond traders, executives, mail clerks, photographers, artists, electricians, cleaning people, security guards, police officers and firefighters. They were sons, daughters, mommies, daddies, grandparents, husbands and wives.

Maybe not all were the best of people, I can't say. But I can say that they were murdered in cold blood. Nobody who died there did anything to deserve what happened to them.

If you were there, which you probably weren't, you would realize that the buildings (which held about 25,000 people each) came down so fucking fast, that the officials thought there wasn't enough time to clear the buildings.

Seems pretty reasonable to me. I was there. I saw it happen. I was standing outside the Borders bookstore at 5WTC, and I saw the first plane hit the north tower, practically over my head.

WTC Pictures []

Re:OT reply... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541429)

Nobody who died there did anything to deserve what happened to them.

no, i'm pretty sure the hijackers deserved it.

Re:OT reply... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541555)

>>no, i'm pretty sure the hijackers deserved it.

Whoever you are, you're absolutely right. I wan't thinking about those bastards when I wrote that though.

I'm sure that the hijackers are having a great time in Hell []

WTC Photos []

Re:What a crock of shit (1, Offtopic)

tzanger (1575) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541346)

A few more fucks to add to my list of people who should have been in the WTC instead of the 10,000 good, decent people who actually died.

What a barbaric, inhumane thing to say. Of course I don't think I should expect too much from a non-person such as yourself -- you didn't even try to be remotely correct (<3000 died)

Re:What a crock of shit (1, Offtopic)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541448)

How is it barbaric or inhumane? The poster actually implies he wish those people didn't die, and that corrupt public officials would... what is wrong with that? That he was wrong about the death toll is secondary, and rather "nitpicky" imo.

Re:What a crock of shit (1, Offtopic)

dh003i (203189) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541490)

3000 people that we know of. So I overstated things.

So, according to you, its inhuman to wish that -- if someone had to die, as is the case when the World Trade Center gets blown up during working hours -- the people that died were sick evil fucks as opposed to honest good citizens? Corrupt politicians, corrupt judges, rapists, murderers, child-molesters, and other criminals, as opposed to honest law-abiding citizens? The slime of the earth like these fucks at PETA, CC (Christian Coalition), NAMBLA, RIAA, and the MPAA, as opposed to honest law-abiding citizens?

If you say no to this, then you're saying you'd rather have the honest law-abiding citizens be dead.

Of course, your position is you wouldn't wish anything cruel on anyone. Bleeding-heart crap in my opinion, but if that's what you think.

You obviously don't put values on lives; I do. Do you really think that the life of sick fuck's like these pedophile priests, are better than the lives of people like say Colin Powell, an honorable man who fought for his country, and then later for children?

I'm not going to get nitty-gritty about it, but I'll say this much: I'd rather sick evil fucks die than ordinary people. Btw, I hate to use the word evil, b/c I associate it with Christian crap, but "sick evil fuck" is something George Carlin said, so that cleanses it of any religious crap.

Of course, in regards to the WTC, not all 3000 people who died were necessarily law-abiding citizens. But on average, the group was filled with good people.

If the terrorists had targetted a prison where they keep the worst offenders instead of the WTC, I would've been celebrating.

Call me whatever you will. But the fact is, 3000 people were going to die. It's only a matter of who died. The living victims of 9/11 probably wish it wasn't their family members who died -- in other words, wish it was someone else. Do you think they're inhumane too?

The fact is, we all put value on life, whether we want to admit it or not. Everyone values their family first, then friends. Most people value normal citizens over crooks.

Another nice side effect, were it a prison that were bombed instead of the WTC, is that there might not have been a war. GW Bush probably would've been secretly pleased, as would every other politician, had the terrorists somehow lost control of the plane and crashed into a prison (at a time when the gaurds/workers are gone, of course).

At least I have the courage to say what we all think and believe. You're just saying politically correct crap to up your "karma" or whatever.

Re:What a crock of shit (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541380)

Damn, I guess it's still illegal for your to pirate DVDs. That sucks, doesn't it?

2600 cant get no respect (4, Insightful)

checkitout (546879) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541329)

I think a large part of the reason it wasn't allowed for appeal was the great number of protests and courtroom hijinx 2600 brought with them. Its like being the class clown, teachers aren't going to give many favors and would rather send you to the principals office than deal with you directly.

Re:2600 cant get no respect (2, Insightful)

grung0r (538079) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541396)

Had 2600 been prim and proper they wouldn't of won anymore then they did in reality. I don't think they are owed any "favors" as you put it. I think they are owed their right to appeal a unfair ruling made by a judge who was either corrupt or had no idea what he was talking about. I would hope that court rulings aren't based on the conduct of the defendant in court or the "favors" they are owed.

Re:2600 cant get no respect (3, Insightful)

qslack (239825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541425)

I think a large part of the reason it wasn't allowed for appeal was the great number of protests and courtroom hijinx 2600 brought with them. Its like being the class clown, teachers aren't going to give many favors and would rather send you to the principals office than deal with you directly.

If this is the reason, then the judge should be put in jail. Judges are supposed to be impartial rulers of the law. If they are not doing their job, they should be impeached. If they are discriminating against groups of people (in this case, political activists), they should be put in jail for something (I'm sure there's a law regarding this with specific penalties and everything).

Re:2600 cant get no respect (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541454)

I agree, let me add that slahsdot sucks
real bad, so does linux. I pray daily
for slashdot's demize. Fuck you torvalds.

Re:2600 cant get no respect (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541517)

Wow you're sad and desperate.

Re:2600 cant get no respect (5, Insightful)

Seth Finkelstein (90154) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541528)

The "image" battle was a problem way before the appeal level. In the original ruling, the court said [] :

In the final analysis, the dispute between these parties is simply put if not necessarily simply resolved.

Plaintiffs have invested huge sums over the years in producing motion pictures in reliance upon a legal framework that, through the law of copyright, has ensured that they will have the exclusive right to copy and distribute those motion pictures for economic gain. They contend that the advent of new technology should not alter this long established structure.

Defendants, on the other hand, are adherents of a movement that believes that information should be available without charge to anyone clever enough to break into the computer systems or data storage media in which it is located.

Judge Kaplan wasn't exactly shy about his views, no sirreee bob ...

Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project ( []

Re:2600 cant get no respect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541560)

And not exactly correct, either. He makes the illogical assumption that the only possible use for the software is for piracy.

Obvious grammar/misspelling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541333)

2600 AppealS rejected. It's starting to get embarassing. Anyway that's a lot of rejected appeals.

Is this any surprise? (-1, Flamebait)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541339)

Phone phreaking is illegal, tampering with your odometer is illegal, creating and sending virusi is illegal.

Don't you people think that stealing from the DVD playback machine makers' is also illegal?

The Appeals Court thinks so.

Re:Is this any surprise? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541371)

What am I stealing by watching a DVD on my computer?

I bought the hardware - where traditionally all computer royalties lie - as in modems, video adapters, etc. I bought a DVD player expecting to watch a DVD. I couldn't do so because no software supported it for Linux ( I haven't used windows since 95b, when I had to support it on the Destination..)
So I did what I could and used DeCSS to open up the files on the DVD that I bought on the DVD drive that I owned to watch it on an OS that I have. How you relate this to phone phreaking is beyond me. Maybe you should reread your post, and clarify for all of us the genius post that you just made.


Re:Is this any surprise? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541387)

It's a shame it's still illegal for you to pirate DVDs. That sucks, doesn't it?

Re:Is this any surprise? (5, Insightful)

eyegor (148503) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541381)

My car is capable of going over a hundred miles an hour. I can also use it to run over hapless pedestrians. Yet I do neither (at least not on purpose)

I own guns. I'm capable of all sorts of mischief. I choose not to.

I own a baseball bat. I don't attack people with it. Sometimes I even hit baseballs with it.

Decss is a nice tool that I can use to store my favorite DVD on my laptop and watch it when I'm on travel without dragging a bunch of extra stuff around. I don't steal movies on DVD... I certainly could, I chose not to.

Just because you can use a tool that has a legitmate purpose to break the law doesn't mean you will do so.

Plus, who has time to download some sucky dvd rip anyway? Life's too short, I'd rather plunk down the $20 or so and have a nice library. It's retarded to spend all that time stealing a movie then pay big bucks for a writable DVD.

Your laptop could already play DVDs (2)

joneshenry (9497) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541527)

In all probability your laptop already came with some version of Windows which could play the DVDs. It was your choice to wipe it off and replace it with an OS that was incapable of using the hardware. Would it have killed you to have kept Windows in a dual-boot system when you already paid for it in the Windows tax? I read Linux zealots using this logic all the time against FreeBSD exhilarating that the GPL is keeping some driver support from FreeBSD.

I just don't get the sheer obstinancy of some people who seem to think that using computers should be equivalent to Homer Simpson's repeatedly hitting his head against a brick wall. If using Microsoft's products kills you so much why didn't you buy a Mac, a machine that can play DVDs just fine AND whose OS is derived from Unix.

Re:Is this any surprise? (1)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541461)

Funny, I didn't realize that you're allowed to imagine some hypothetical sale, then search for someone that makes such imaginary sales unlikely and call it "stealing".

The Appeals Court doesn't "think". It simpls follows the instructions that were recieved with the bribe money.

Re:Is this any surprise? (1)

xonker (29382) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541487)

Don't you people think that stealing from the DVD playback machine makers' is also illegal?

Excuse me? Where the hell do you get this? Using DeCSS to play a DVD on Linux isn't stealing from anyone. If I have a computer with a DVD drive and I want to play a DVD under Linux it doesn't harm anyone.

Not true (2)

prockcore (543967) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541513)

"If I have a computer with a DVD drive and I want to play a DVD under Linux it doesn't harm anyone."

Not true... you could be hurting yourself and others around you, if that DVD happens to be Tomb Raider or Glitter.

Lawyers (2, Funny)

Banjonardo (98327) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541340)

Ok, lawyers, any chance?

For the Supreme Court, I mean?

Re:Lawyers (1)

apathyruiner (222745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541394)

Going to the Supreme Court could be far worse than not going. What if they also rule against 2600? That's something that'd be hard to over-rule.

Re:Lawyers (1)

Banjonardo (98327) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541423)

That's true; but the publicity might sure help.

I don't know.... better than to leave it as it is, I suppose. If they're gonna lose, might as well lose with style.

No DeCSS? (1)

dacarr (562277) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541345)

OK, fine, 2600 is possibly going to go down. This doesn't mean we can't see DVD's on linux boxen.

Admittedly, it's sad to see such a prestigious (!) publication get the back end of a firebomb....

Re:No DeCSS? (2)

Dimensio (311070) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541350)

Hrmm...firebombs. MPAA. Judge Kaplan's house..., I will not get nasty ideas. I will not get nasty ideas. I will not get nasty ideas...

Well, maybe just Jack Valenti.

DeCSS does not do the job (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541403)

A friend tried to decript a DVD with DeCSS and failed. Eventually he found better tools on the Internet which not only decript better than DeCSS but also remove the macrovision protection.

How to write a DJ Tanner story (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541351)

DJ Tanner was happy. She woke up cheerfully on a Saturday morning. Everything was okay and she realized she had to pee. She went and said "Daddy, I need you to unlock my pajamas." He laughed at her, and told her no. She went and cried in her room. As she was laying down, she felt her diaper fill up with warm urine.I"I'm so glad my daddy made me wear these. They feel so soft and comfortable, and they feel really good when I pee in them." DJ went to ask Danny to change her, but he was so upset at her that he made her wear diapers for the rest of the weekend.

Plagiarist! (-1, Offtopic)

LOTR Troll (544929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541374)

New story, hot off the presses, two posts under this. Also in my journal!

Re:Plagiarist! (-1)

Burritos (535298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541393)

Your story is 90% better than I could ever do. Maybe one day I will sit down and write something in Notepad, don't you know? Glad to read you may include diapers in your next story. Make it a Danny punishing Stephanie or DJ story, and he makes one (or both) of them wear a diaper.

Always open to suggestions.. (-1)

LOTR Troll (544929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541404)

..however, my stories usually just come to me. In other news, the fucking slashfags just knocked me down from -5 karma to -8. Fuckholes. Somebody with a wad of karma and a vendetta is now my enemy. Furthermore, I'm IP banned once again.

Re:Always open to suggestions.. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541546)

I went from -14 to 32. It's called karma whoring.

damn the DeCSS!!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541355)

what difference does it make to them if someone watches their DVDs on a computer with Linux installed or Windoze, or any other stinkin OS!!!

Full House: Weekend Recollection (-1, Offtopic)

LOTR Troll (544929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541360)

TheMonday morning after a weekend spent mostly at the VA Hospital with her mentally crippled sister depressed D.J. slightly. Uncle Joey passes by the unhinged door of D.J.'s room and says "You're sexually harrassing me with your eyes you little bitch, get your fuckin' ass out of bed, it's time for school. Cut It Out! No seriously, don't make me undress you." Uncle Joey departs licking his lips and heading downstairs. D.J. pulls the covers over her head drifts off into a recurrence of events sequence as the audience laugh track plays.

We're now observing the events of Saturday as D.J. is dreaming. D.J. is required by her father to use a specific routine each time her sister Michelle needs medical attention for asthma attacks and immunizations, of course Danny would never bother to to do this for his youngest offspring. However, D.J. does it reasonably well, albeit mostly slower than could be done through legitimate channels. On Saturday afternoon she arrived at the hospital, claiming to be a pre-teen runaway that lives in a dumpster with her retarded sister. As usual, a nurse promptly took the pair to the rear of the children's ward and had them stripped after administering a generic inhaler on Michelle. The nurse Juanita, a middle-aged heavy-set black woman asked with mild compassion "Good looooahhd, why you have this padlock on your puujammas?" D.J. had no reasonable reply, none that wouldn't wind her up in a worse abusive foster home again, so lied and said she did not know. "Don' you worry tho', I gots a pair of bolt cuttahs near the crazy ward, I will be right back yungins." Juanita returned shortly with bolt cutters and cut the lock off of the homemade fabric secure.

Juanita said quickly, "You know the drill" as she surprised the two sisters with a forceful, icy burst from a garden hose; laugh track applauding as the girls squirmed in frozen discomfort. Juanita threw soaps at the girls. Juanita exlaimed in disbelief, "Mercy D.J., you have a mighty serious case of jock itch for a chile of yo' age!" Michelle didn't know what to make of the soap, so bit off a tiny piece. Michelle, like most retards, reacted in a heavily emotional manner to the bitter taste in her mouth as she began to foam, and swallowed most of it on accident. Juanita exlaimed "Good loahhhd," and directed the hose stream square into the tard's open whiney mouth, knocking her onto her naked ass as the laugh track reched climax. D.J. was nearly finished washing herself, and let her idiot-child sibling struggle against Juanita's hose current, bawling as full volume while Juanita chuckled heartily at the reaction she had induced.

D.J. dried herself off and watched Juanita deliver the thick stream of water at Michelle's tiny hindquarters; pushing her along the slick tiled floor with a white nurse's shoe. Several minutes later Juanita dried Michelle off, sat her down on an examination table and administered a Polio immunization. The tard showed signs of discomfort, but was met with a swift slap to the head by Juanita in anticipation. Juanita remarked "Don't you be lettin' that chile cry in this hospital room!" Michelle sat stunned; cross-eyed as the laugh track played. "Time to see what chile welfare can do about a foster home fo' you kids," Juanita said as she left the exam room. D.J. picked up her little sister and snuck past the front desk of the hospital and left the building, bare asses visible through the rear of their hospital gowns as the sequence of occurance faded out with the laugh track playing in the background.

Danny was walking past his daughter's room and noticed that she was still sleeping. Danny took off his leather belt, halved it, placed the folded end in his palm and savagely began to beat his daughter with the buckle end of the belt, screaming "Your Uncle Joey *thwap* told your ass to *thwap* get out of * thwap* bed! You remind me of your dead mother, useless, may she burn in hell! Get out of bed!" Danny Tanner put his belt back on, buckled it, took something out of his pocket wrapped in a Burger King hamburger paper wrapper and threw it at his daugher. "Here's breakfast, be careful of the extra 'surprise' I've included," Danny said as he left in the hall chuckling snidely with the studio audience. D.J. unwrapped a half-eaten BK Whopper that had been in Danny's left pocket for several days and ate it greedily, dabbing at some ketchup on a snotty kleenex that was wrapped with the burger. The scene closes with the credits rolling over a freeze-frame of D.J.'s face immediately after having seen the repulsive kleenex with about a teaspoon worth of yellow phlegm.

Re:Full House: Weekend Recollection (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541369)

Please include diapers in your story!!

Maybe next story! (-1, Offtopic)

LOTR Troll (544929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541382)

I find it sort of funny that this /. article has the brown-and-yellow color scheme.

T-Shirts (4, Informative)

Penguinoflight (517245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541366)

ThinkGeek will sell you a decss t-shirt, and it's not tiny print either. I don't want to be trollish, but it's high time we got some competent judges, or at least another section of judges for tech cases.

Errr. . . . (2)

Com2Kid (142006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541367)

If the supreme court refuses to hear the case do we formaly rebel or something then?

I mean what ARE the options left after both the legislative and the judicial branch have f*cked you in the ass?

Granted it wouldn't be MUCH of a rebelion (well, one way or the other. Not like Nerds / Geeks can agree on anything, getting us all organized would be hell, everybody would start fighting over minor ass stuff), but if we ever did get organized we would rule the world.

(in about ten seconds, heh.)

Somebody else can comment on the irony of the highest potential power being held by people who are unable to get together to use it. ^_^

Re:Errr. . . . Civil disobediance (2)

erroneus (253617) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541408)

Well, yes, civil disobediance is the next step. The problem is that now is not the time. There isn't enough consumer interest in what's going on.

The public is still addicted to the media and buy swallow whatever it feeds them. As long as they get what they think they want it will keep on keepin' on. While it does indeed hurt the public, they haven't felt it yet. Before they allow people to feel the pain of having their rights ripped from their hearts, they have to tie us all down so we can't fight back.

Awareness comes first and unfortunately, we have to wait until something BIG happens. Something big like...oh, say another Columbine-style shooting where the people are apparently driven mad by our freedoms being taken from us. Okay, we will need at least three of those events before people start listening... the first one is "some nut" the next one is a "copy cat" but the third is a "movement."

Re:Errr. . . . Civil disobediance (2)

dangermouse (2242) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541419)

The fuck? No it isn't.

The next step is to elect a new legislature.

And I really don't see how you get from civil disobedience to Columbine. Did you skip out on civics class for crack hits?

I swear, the shit that comes out of geeks' mouths when they start talking politics is appalling.

Re:Errr. . . . Civil disobediance (1)

Com2Kid (142006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541456)

I swear, the shit that comes out of geeks' mouths when they start talking politics is appalling.

What the hell did you expect on slashdot, x-stian conservatives?

(well aside from the trolls that is, they do a pretty darn good x-stian conservative routine. ^_^ )

The next step is to elect a new legislature.

Got that done in Washington State, Maria Cantwell is senator here, unfortunately it is a bit hard to find self made millionaires who are on top of both technological and environmental issues and who are willing to go completely broke just to keep their campaign clean.

If you DO find a large willing pool of such candidates though, by all means convince them to run for office. :)

Re:Errr. . . . Civil disobediance (1)

numbuscus (466708) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541506)

If I remember correctly, Cantwell is an ex-exec of RealNetworks. That would put her in the same corner as the record companies and DMCA lovers. Real has enough clout to get the rights to produce DVD software.

I understand what you're talking about. However, if the record/media companies own all of the networks, etc. what gives you the idea that they will ALLOW anti-DMCA types to play campaign ads on their stations? It's free speech, remember - they can put any voice forward that they wish - and that voice will slowly become more and more an echo of their corporate line.

Re:Errr. . . . Civil disobediance (1)

Com2Kid (142006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541547)

I understand what you're talking about. However, if the record/media companies own all of the networks, etc. what gives you the idea that they will ALLOW anti-DMCA types to play campaign ads on their stations? It's free speech, remember - they can put any voice forward that they wish - and that voice will slowly become more and more an echo of their corporate line.

It is highly unlikely that a candidate will get elected on any sort of anti-DMCA issues, and it is doubtful that a candidate would even air their opinions on the DMCA in public at all.

It is more of one of those things that you kind of have to guesstimate about a candidate.

Well that and Maria Cantwell has also fought against other tech-censorship laws in the past and has a pretty darn good track record as being pro-dothings. :)

She actually made a formal statement today commenting on how dog assed slow one department or another here in Washington State was moving in just making an official plan of action, hehe. I loved that, it is a major gripe of mine that most government bureaucracies take soooo long to even think up of a solution for a problem that by the time that they DO think up of even possible course of action to take in SEEKING a possible course of action, hell, the problem has long since gotten far worse. ^_^

Re:Errr. . . . (1)

zeugma-amp (139862) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541500)

The obvious solution for this, when the courts are completely ignorant, and the politicians have been bought off by Big Media(TM) is to go ahead and code whatever you want and put the programs on servers overseas.

"The internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it.". I can't remember who said it, but it'strue for the most part. National laws are merely annoyances to the locals.

Re:Errr. . . . (1)

Com2Kid (142006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541533)

"The internet sees censorship as damage and routes around it.". I can't remember who said it, but it'strue for the most part. National laws are merely annoyances to the locals.

Well yah, but, err, the feds have this awful habit of working even with overseas police and arresting people, or arresting anybody who lives in America, or arresting anybody who sets foot into America, who has violated any part of the DMCA.

Lovely. . . . just looovely.

Anybody know of a way to exist completely anonymously? No? Damnit. . . . ::sighs:: After that last anon naming service thing went offline (the really really good one that you had to pay for as you go) things have kind of sucked on the online privacy front.

I SOOO need to get rich and donate gobs of money to the EFF. :)

Shhhhh!!! Duh! (3, Funny)

GMontag (42283) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541520)

The first rule of Operation Total Chaos is that we do not talk about Operation Total Chaos.


Huh (-1, Flamebait)

palme999 (82528) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541376)

What a non-news article. I've had more meat at a PETA convention.

Re:Huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541525)

You're talking about Michael here. He cares about your "Rights Online" more than Joselyn Elders cares about the "cheeeldren".

DMCA here to stay? (3, Insightful)

numbuscus (466708) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541379)

While I believe there are a few more cases pending that seek to gut it, I think we may have to get used to living with the DMCA. It's unfortunate, but this is what happens when you live in a society that is ruled by the media industry. With only a few companies controlling 90% of the TV stations and two or three firms taking control of the radio, it's going to take some serious lobbying to stop these types of bills passing. The Internet is the only thing standing between the media giants and their utter control of free speech. If something isn't done to curb this, we may find ourselves in a society not run by a single 'big-brother' State, but instead run by a few giant media groups. Not that they couldn't - at that point - purchase the State, with all of the media at there disposal, they could do anything. And most people would go along with it, because they saw it on TV. I can just here my parents and grandparents now - "Well, so-and-so on channel 2 said it was a good idea. And then I heard the same on channel 7 - and then the newspaper endorsed the idea. So, it must be the way to go..."

Re:DMCA here to stay? (2)

martissimo (515886) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541414)

Well, when you consider the party that Rosen and Valenti threw for their favorite bought and paid for politicans yesterday [] , things certainly don't look promising, at least in the short-term.

I wonder why they didn't invite Boucher to the festivities? Frankly until there are more fair-use advocates like him in congress i will be very worried

Re:DMCA here to stay? (1)

numbuscus (466708) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541460)

Thanks for the link. So, let me get this straight - if you hand a politician $1000 to vote for a bill, that's bribery. But if you throw a huge party, including expensive food, champagne and whatever else - that's lobbying.

This shit has to stop!


numbuscus (466708) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541428)

Ok, what the hell just happened? After posting the previous message, I went back to check out the story about Trent Lott killing a vote in committee today. But the posting was GONE. I then went 'Back' and refreshed, adn it was there? But the URL is

Am I just getting paranoid or is Slashdot being censored? Please, someone explain.


Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541492)

yer just paranoid. its a db issue, i think.

Re:DMCA here to stay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541536)

It's unfortunate, but this is what happens when you live in a society that is ruled by the media industry.

Fucktard moderators, do you really think this is insightful. This has only been repeated on slashdot thousands upon thousands of times. This kid just karma-whored your asses. Idiots.

Michael (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541384)

is a fucking idi0t.

Re:Michael (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541541)

I'll second that. Someone needs to do a Nurnberg type site with Michael's address.

Amazing. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541385)

2000 year old recipe .


HUNZA DIET BREAD is said to beat all fad diets hands down. It's the fastest, healthiest, easiest & no discomfort way to lose weight ...RAPIDLY !!


By Barry Jamison, Special feature writer

Here is a message to all you genius research scientists trying to find a painless way for people to lose weight. It's been done! Not by a
scientist, but..... by a housewife.

Folks it may sound INCREDIBLE ... but this story is 100% TRUE & GENUINE !!
Being hailed here as the NATURAL weight loss method of the century, HUNZA DIET BREAD is rolling out like a juggernaught!


Like most great inventions & breakthroughs in medicine & discoveries of the past,The bread was discovered by accident. Lotte Svenson, wife of a Swedish health researcher, was trying to duplicate a 2,000-year-old, high roughage bread used by the little known civilization of Hunza. The Hunzas were being studied by her husband.

The Hunzas are considered to be the healthiest people on earth.Their bread is the main part of their diet. Lotte was trying to make this bread good tasting so that her children would eat it and benefit healthwise.

She succeeded in coming up with a recipe that was absolutely delicious. Everybody loved it. But, then a startling discovery was made. Just one or two very small pieces of bread would ruin a
person's appetite for 5 or 6 hours!

At first, she became upset at this drawback. But then while talking it over with her husband, Lars, it hit them.... This was not a drawback at all, but a huge benefit!! It was the ultimate weapon in the fight against obesity that researchers have been trying to discover for

Lotte had apparently come up with the first natural and healthy appetite inhibitor... Or was she the first? Could this be a designed bread invented thousands of years ago?

Mr. Svenson is a researcher for a private Swedish Health Institute. He had been studying the Hunzas for years. Now he had some questions that needed answers.

The Hunzas have little food in the winter. Was the bread an ancient discovery of a hunger suppressant which also provided healthful
nourishment to the body during winter months?

The Svensons attribute the powerful appetite inhibiting properties of the bread as such ...

.." Theory 1 is that Lotte, while experimenting with the bread recipe accidentally combined natural food substances which react together to form a natural appetite or hunger inhibitor.

There are also facts being uncovered that support Theory 2 that this bread was designed in ancient times for the express purpose of tiding people over, when food supplies were scarce.

Let's start with the Hunzas who are the healthiest people on earth. I consider their bread to be one of the main reasons for this."

"The Hunzas exist isolated from the rest of the world in the Himalayan Mountains where they live to be 110 to 120 years old. They have no cancer, heart attacks, or other major disorders to speak of. They are active and fit to the very end.

Men father children at 100 years and older. Overweight people are unheard of because they have the perfect weight control system."

Visitors to Hunza all came back with the same description of the Hunza people:

"Hunza men are straight, tall, broad-shouldered,deep-chested, slim-waisted, heavy-legged, and have full heads of hair. Hunza women are straight, tall, slim-waisted, developed bosoms, perfect complexions, and luxuriant hair.
Both men and women have perfect teeth and eyesight even at 100 years and older! They are neat, clean, intelligent and friendly. And you can't find an overweight person.

Hunza women at 80 look no older than North American/European women of mid 60's. Fatigue is virtually unknown. Hunza men over 90 years old repeatedly walk the mountain trail of 65 miles from the town of Gilgit with a full pack and immediately start to work in the fields again!"

I noticed that the Svenson's were exceptionally trim, fit and healthy. Our interview took place in the kitchen with the HUNZA DIET BREAD being prepared for me to taste.

"O.K., now we can continue. So, you feel that the Hunza bread may be "by design" both a hunger suppressant and a super health food?"

Answer: "Yes, but if it is, there's a question, who designed it? Now the Hunzas were originally soldiers of Alexander the Great. This bread may have been designed for the use of his far traveling armies. It would make sense. It's the most compact form of hunger satisfaction and nutrition I know of.

But, further investigation brought about some really wild possibilities. According to traces of Macedonian Heritage this bread could have originated in Egypt over 5,000 years ago. As you know, the Egyptians were capable of doing many things that modern science still cannot duplicate.


Question: "That bread smells delicious. And since we're going to discuss the bread, let's ask the discoverer, Lotte how did it all start?"

Answer: "Well, as I mentioned. Lars had been investigating the Hunzas for many years and was convinced that their bread was one of the major reasons for their good health. So he asked me to see if I could duplicate it and use it at home.

I thought it would be easy at first but it turned into a nightmare.The recipes that visitors to Hunza came back with were either too general or did not turn into bread at all. So, I decided to make a list of all the key food elements in Hunza and began experimenting, trying to come up with a bread that would taste good so that our kids would like it too."

Question: "How long did it take before you were successful?"

Answer: "Oh, after about six months of trial and error I finally hit on a perfect batch one summer morning. Everyone in the family shared some of the bread and raved about how good it was.

With no exaggeration, it was the best bread we had ever tasted. After eating the bread, nobody had an appetite that day and the kids weren't hungry for lunch which was very unusual but we didn't
think much about it at the time.

Then we started to notice that whenever we ate the bread during the day we weren't hungry for our evening meal. It got so that I wouldn't allow anyone to eat the bread unless it was with our
evening meal.

But, then I found that when I served it at dinner, everybody ate a much smaller amount of their meal.

It got to the point that if we were going out to eat or if I was cooking a special dinner, the bread was not allowed for that day. I was even beginning to get upset that my delicious bread had turned into a problem because it devoured everyone's appetite and hunger."

Question: "How long did it take you to realize that what you really had was the all-time weapon against obesity?"

Answer: "You know it was quite a long time. Three or four months. And surprisingly, my husband was involved in obesity research at the time. Also, both of us had trouble with being overweight.

There it was right in front of our noses; but, we were too close to it, to see it ourselves. Then one day we were talking to a friend I grew up with who was telling us that she was taking prescription diet pills to help reduce her appetite.

It hit both of us at once. We jumped up and said.
"Boy, have we got the thing for you!" That was it.

We both were ready to kick ourselves for not seeing it before.

Both my husband and I started using the bread as a weight loss device and began losing weight like crazy, much faster than any weight loss method we ever tried, and, we have tried them all believe me. We then decided to call it HUNZA DIET BREAD."

Now, I like hearing about a diet that's been around for at least 2,000 years. That rings of stability. (At this point Lotte placed the hot bread on a bread board. It looked very appetizing to say the least.) Tell me about the advantages of HUNZA DIET BREAD. I will get a piece, won't I?"

Answer: "Of course, just as soon as it cools a little. There are primary and secondary benefits. The biggest benefit I can think of is that the dieter just doesn't suffer AT ALL! It's such a natural and powerful appetite inhibitor.

This bread satisfies both appetite and hunger. And it does it with only 84 calories (100 calories spread with butter) as effectively as most 1800 calorie full meals.

We define appetite and hunger like this: appetite is mainly the desire you get for food even when you know you're really not hungry. It's that craving in your mouth you get that's known as the cold mouth feeling.

It can also be present even though you've just eaten. Your stomach may be full but you still crave something else. This is the feeling you get with a protein diet. You can stuff yourself with protein until you're ready to bust but the cold mouth craving is still there.

Hunger on the other hand is best described as those pangs of hunger you get or that empty feeling in your stomach that lets you know you really need to eat something rather than simply
wanting to eat for the enjoyment of it.

After a piece or two of HUNZA DIET BREAD you eliminate both appetite and hunger. You feel satisfied and full. And, it lasts depending on the person up to 7 hours. For both of us it lasts 6
to 7 hours."

Question: "What is the secondary benefit?"

Answer: "Well, first of all each piece of HUNZA DIET BREAD is close to being a balanced meal in itself. So right off the bat you don't strip your body of nutrition or give it too much of one thing or too little of another.

Second, not only is the bread nutritional, but it contains some proven good health producing foods of the Hunzas. Also, it is high in roughage or fiber. It passes through your digestive system quickly so the actual absorbed calories are less.You also become very regular eating this bread."

Question: "Lotte, tell me what it's like to eat a piece of the bread, that is, what do you experience yourself?"

Answer: "OK., let's start with the eating. We suggest eating it while it's still warm, with a little butter. It's a heavy bread. I only need one
piece, my husband usually has 2 pieces. Eating it is the first delightful experience you'll have. It tastes better than any bread that we've ever eaten. Along with the taste, being warm makes it truly satisfying to eat.

Now, here's what its like hour by hour after you eat the bread.

Hour 1 and 2. Each minute after you finish eating the bread seems like a build-up of a "fullness" feeling. It's just as though you have kept on eating. You keep getting fuller and fuller. Both your appetite and hunger are very satisfied. You don't crave anything more.

Hour 3. In hour 3 something else happens. The thought of food just doesn't appeal to you. It's not an unpleasant experience, quite the opposite.
But, you don't have a desire for food in any way,shape or form.

Hour 4 and 5. You no longer have a feeling of being stuffed or turned off by the thought of eating but, there's a kind of nothing feeling. You don't want to eat, and you don't crave anything. It's just as I said, a sort of comfortable "nothing" stage.

Hour 6 and 7. Toward the end of the 6th hour you begin to get mildly hungry which then slowly increases into the 6th and 7th hour."

Question: "Now, all that for only the cost of 100 to 200 calories. You can't get that performance out of a 2,000 calorie meal can you?"

Answer: "Right. Now you've got the gist of the whole thing.

Here's another little known thing about standard lunch hours and dinners. Let's say you eat a milkshake, hamburger and french fries for lunch, that's over a 1,000 calories. There's a lot of sugar and salt in that meal.

When you're done the first thing that happens is that your body shoots a large amount of insulin into your system to counteract the sugar. Your blood sugar is lowered and within an hour you feel hungry again and start snacking. On top of that the salt has made you thirsty and you gulp water or soft drinks and retain the fluids with all that salt(sodium) in foods.

On the other hand, if you try a "Weight watchers" lunch, or similar balanced diet, you'd have to eat between 400 to 600 calories of cottage cheese, lean meat, and eggs to feel reasonably full.
But you would not be satisfied and almost immediately you'd be hungry again and need to consume more of the same.

You can't win. There's never been a diet before that exists where you don't suffer in some way."

Question: "Lars, exactly what kind of a program do you go on to lose weight with HUNZA DIET BREAD?"

Answer: "There are many ways to do it. This is another benefit. It's flexible. Here are some typical suggestions. Each piece of bread is
thinly spread with butter for a total of 100 calories.

Plan A: Eat 1 piece every 5 hours of the 16 hours you're awake. That's 3 pieces which total 300 calories. This is the fastest way to lose weight I know of. It works faster for me than any high
protein diet.

Why? You have more energy and burn more calories. Second, the high fiber bread keeps your digestive system regular. Third, your body stays healthy. A healthy body means a properly functioning
metabolic system.

Plan B: Really gorge yourself with the bread. Two pieces every four hours for a total of 8 pieces but only 800 calories. You'll feel full
all day. In fact, I doubt many people could eat this much of the bread.

Plan C: Eat a piece in the morning for breakfast and a piece 3 hours before your dinner and you will eat a great deal less.

Plan D: Eat a piece of HUNZA DIET BREAD, 10 minutes before you eat your regular meal. When we do this we eat only a fraction, such as 1/4 of what we would normally eat. If we wait longer than 10 minutes we don't want to eat at all.

Plan E: Eat the bread at the end of meals that don't fill you up enough, such as low calorie meals. This is a perfect way to use the bread.
You eat a low calorie meal, enjoy it, then eat a piece or two of bread to fill you up. Perfect! No suffering and no urge to snack.

Plan F: Alternate Plan A, B, C, D. We recommend an alternation of the plans, but some people who just want to get the weight off as soon as possible will use Plan A exclusively."

Comment: "Yes, you can really think up all kinds of ways to use the bread. For instance, as a housewife it's harder to diet because you have to prepare food for the family. I eat my bread exactly 2 hours before I am going to prepare a meal. That way when I prepare the meal I am in the 3rd hour where food just doesn't hold any interest for me. No way am I tempted to nibble or taste."

Question: " you all look very healthy. Is it because of the bread?"

Answer: "That's a big part of it. You feel better and look better after you start eating this bread. You know my daughter, besides having a weight problem, also had a mild case of acne, and since she started eating the bread her skin has completely cleared up."

Question: "Lars, how many pounds can you lose a week using this bread?"

Answer: "The exact number of pounds depends on the person's size and metabolic rate. Using the bread I lost 11 pounds and Lotte lost 7 pounds in the first two weeks.

The point is, as I said earlier, that our experience shows that you lose weight faster on this method than any other method that I know exists."... .. AND YOU DO NOT SUFFER .


Question: "That's a lot of weight to lose in such a short period of time. Lotte, I see you're cutting the bread. It's strange to say, it even looks like it would fill you up quickly."

Answer: "You'll soon see for yourself. Take a piece. Spread a little butter on it and enjoy.

I had a piece with butter. The bread was medium brown and it was a heavy bread. It had a very appealing grainy texture and when I spread the butter on the warm piece it melted into the bread and made my mouth water.

I took a bite. The delicious taste of the bread filled my mouth. You could tell that it was hearty, full of substance, chewy, and I could
just tell it was good for you. Perhaps our bodies trigger an instinct that lets us know what's good or bad for us.

White bread gives you an empty feeling like you're biting into cotton compared to this bread. It was indeed the best bread I ever tasted. I devoured two pieces and felt very full and satisfied. I looked at the time. It was 1:25 pm."

Question: "You weren't kidding were you? That bread is out of this world. It just gives you what you crave. I can't put my finger on it."

Answer: "The best part is yet to come. Let me know what you experience by calling us in about 6 hours."

Question: "I'll tell you my appetite is just about gone right now. I see what you mean by the build up effect. I feel like I have just eaten a full 3 course meal. "


We originally felt the best way to make the bread available to the public was to contract with a reputable food processor to prepare and package the bread and then distribute it for us. But that turned out to be unbelievably expensive and the red tape involved in getting a food product on the market wasn't something we wanted to get involved with.


To order a copy, all you have to do is write "HUNZA DIET BREAD" on a piece of paper, include your NAME and EMAIL ADDRESS and send it along with CASH ONLY of USD$20.

SORRY, NO MONEY ORDERS OR CHECKS... CASH ONLY USD$20 or EURO25.... We are in Sweden & the cost of cashing USD checks & money orders are prohibitive- not to mention it takes around 30 days to get
them processed - SO, SORRY AGAIN, BUT CASH ONLY ! USD$20 or EURO25
Australian Dollars = $40
Canadian Dollars = $35
Chinese Yuan = 166
Japanese Yen = 2680
British Pounds = 15
New Zealand Dollars = $50
Taiwan Dollars = 720
Singapore Dollars = $37

PLEASE DO NOT SEND REGISTERED MAIL ..we just do not have the resources to physically attend to the details with collecting huge volumes of registered mail ...all registered mail will be returned


WE WOULD MUCH PREFER TO EMAIL THE ORDERS BACK as it is MUCH LESS WORK FOR US...but If you want it printed and posted back to you - include your postal address must include an EXTRA $5 (ALSO 5 EUROS- OR THE EQUIVALENT IN YOUR CURRENCY)for postage, stationary (envelope) printing & HANDLING.

This is very time consuming for us .... therefore the extra cost... if the extra MONEY is not included we cannot print and post back.

We realise that there are a lot of ripoffs on the internet and you may be a bit sceptical ....but... PLEASE BE ASSURED THAT THIS IS 100% REAL AND GENUINE ... you WILL receive the recipe for the amazing Hunza Diet bread - we promise you will not be disappointed !! Please believe in us - we wont let you down.

P.O.BOX 7020


POSTSCRIPT: At 7:30 p.m. I phoned the Svenson's with the results of my post bread eating hours. It went like clockwork, exactly as they had told me. I wasn't hungry for 6 hours. Their bread really is great. I am truly impressed and am now baking my own HUNZA DIET BREAD. - This is too easy - "a piece of cake, or... I should say ...."a piece of HUNZA DIET BREAD"!!

hack it. (3, Funny)

DarkHelmet (120004) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541400)

The appeal has been denied to 2600...

No wait... the website has been changed...

The ruling has been reversed? Hmmm. I wonder how that could have been done?

Lol, Corley is in deep shit. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541412)

That boy is gonna get sent to prison where he'll be subjected to The Goat Treatment [] . Oh well, he's a criminal and deserves every second of the punishment he's due for.

didn't wired do this too tho? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541416)

i'm not sure how many of you /. readers also read wired, but they also showed the small perl script that also decrypted dvd's in the months after the 2600 issue (i cant remember which volume at the moment). shouldn't they also be tried?

Does anyone remember this.... (3, Informative)

DragonPup (302885) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541417)

Apparently descrambling DVD is encyption As bad as sabotaging airplanes to crash [] . Gives you a idea just how much of a clue these judges have to what these programs do.(Granted, this was pre-9/11, but still)


If you examine the Judges Original ruling (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541422)

He correctly pointed out that disputes over the limits of fair use and copyright lie in Congress's jurisdiction, no the courts. The courts job is to enforce the law and interpret it to a given set of facts. The whole First Amendment argument was incredibly weak anyway. Arguing that DeCSS actually made some sort of statement that was political rather then being a tool used by others too make a political statement was akin to the anarchist arguing that bomb making was protected because his political opinions were. If DMCA tromps on your fair use rights then get your butts out on the campaign circuit, contribute time, money, and sweat to political candidates who will promise to change it. Support those that back your view and fight those that don't. This is an election year kiddies, remember? Every single House member and a third of the senate. Don't give me that blatther about Hollywood ownes them, yada, yada, yada. Individuals vote, in election places, on election day, not dollar, not companies, individuals. So start cranking ou broadsides explaining this issue to the voters, start going door to door, start working campaigns and making contributions and get involved. I've been a political activist for eight years, making connections and getting to know folks, and I tell you that most politicians are desperate for grass roots activists, Go to your local political club, introduce yourself, let the local politician know your computer aware and he may come to you for an opinion on these matters. But don't be percieved as an anarchist. Wash your hair and face, dress nice, dump the rightious indignation and be polite considerate and non dictitorial and give of your own time and money to help them and they will listen. In the end it's the Congress that created this mess and it's in Congress it will need to get fixed. So rant here, but get active in the real world. Or prepare to keep getting run over!

Re:If you examine the Judges Original ruling (1)

Com2Kid (142006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541485)

was akin to the anarchist arguing that bomb making was protected because his political opinions were.

Information on how to make a bomb is perfectly legal though;

Now USING that bomb IS illegal.

People shouldn't pirate movies, but it somebody wants to rip their own DVDs and put'em on their HD, transcode them to MPEG4 for size efficiency, and stream them off of a box running an OS of their choice;

NOBODY, and I repeat, NOBODY should have the right to stop a person from doing that.

If it is within the sanctity of a person's own home and they are NOT harming ANYBODY AT ALL;

then it should be allowed.


The DMCA is equivalent to "outlawing people scratching on their walls because it harms the plaster wall industry".

Or outlawing private citizens owning hatchets because it would harm the lumber industry (they will go down to lumber mills and hack at the lumber and ruin it all, oh nooo!!!!!).

Quite frankly companies should just not release products with piss poor copy protection.

Imagine if Boeing made a plane that totally sucked and crashed into the ground all the time.

And then pushed a law through congress saying that making emergency landings was against the law and that any other plane crashes were obviously the fault of the pilot.

The planes would still be crashing, but Boeing would now have no encouragement to change things (well outside of financial pressure, but with the case of software it is even more limited, especially since there is not a negative effect upon the consumer as there is with airplanes crashing. ^_^ )

Re:If you examine the Judges Original ruling (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541514)

People shouldn't pirate movies, but it somebody wants to rip their own DVDs and put'em on their HD, transcode them to MPEG4 for size efficiency, and stream them off of a box running an OS of their choice;

NOBODY, and I repeat, NOBODY should have the right to stop a person from doing that.

If it is within the sanctity of a person's own home and they are NOT harming ANYBODY AT ALL;

Once again this is an issue of actually figuring out what is what.

When you buy a DVD you are buying a license to view the movie, not own the data on the disc. Or something like that.

Yeah, in a perfect world you should be able todo that. And personally if you want to I think its ok.

What pisses me off are these uber-cool l33t-h4x0rz that waste tons of school bandwidth to pirate 15fps 11khz audio crappy movies. Fuck, go buy a DVD, or do what I do

1. Walk to blockbuster
2. Rent movie for 5 bucks
3. Watch DVD
4. Copy DVD
5. Encode to two CDs [MPEG-1 at around 1.2Mbps]
6. Return DVD

For around 8$ I have a virtually perfect rip [on two CDs] and I don't have to waste tons of bandwidth.


2600's response (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541424)

2600's response is here [] [] basically they claim that they're going to organise a million-geek-march on Washington next month. I doubt that it will make a real difference though.

Neither 2600 nor the EFF have skin in this game (4, Interesting)

joneshenry (9497) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541441)

This case is being lost because the movement headed by the EFF simply does not have the incentive to win it. The American judicial system did not become conservative just yesterday, it has always been so. Just in fairly recent American history the African Americans after centuries of reverses in the legal system were able to persuade the Supreme Court to grant relief. In this case the African Americans simply were interested in winning above all. So they did everything they could to put forward good upstanding representatives such as Rosa Parks and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to represent the face of the movement.

In contrast let's face it, neither 2600 nor EFF are threatened with nonexistence should they lose this case. In fact they are benefitting. Every time the EFF loses a case the movement argues that the solution is to give them more money, this despite a rather suspicious history of the EFF actually being on the wrong side such as the first head of ICAAN being former head of the EFF Esther Dyson. I doubt that 2600 is hurting either from having their name prominently displayed on the Internet news outlets every few weeks.

In this era of dotcom meltdown and competition is it so unlikely that without this controversy 2600 would be threatened with going out of business? What information exactly does 2600 have that's exclusive to them or is even that interesting anymore?

In contrast to the naysayers I think it's pretty clear that the Supreme Court takes seriously the First Amendment, and that is the ONLY reason 2600 even has a chance of getting them to review the case. The Supreme Court has for example repeatedly struck down the attempts by the Federal Government to regulate obscenity on the Internet. The Supreme Court is serious about its duties, too bad 2600 is not.

Legality (1)

NETHED (258016) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541443)

So the software that allows to make copies of DVDs "[]" [] is legal. I do not understand, if I want to COPY movies for myown use, its alright by the MPAA, but as soon as i want to WATCH them without payint the 'MPAA tax', i get sued.

This is frigthening

maybe you guys should wake up (2, Insightful)

Napalmstrike (216916) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541450)

This hardly just ties into the DMCA, and the music and movies industry. It ties into a far larger picture, that of the decaying public trust in the gov't, and worse yet, the courts.

As Americans, we've liked to think of the courts as a neutral element in our politics, one that cannot be so easily swayed by money grubbers and the bands of lawyers and lobbyists they employ. I still remember how commentators noted that perhaps the most serious damage done in the Bush/Gore election was that a large segment of the population quietly lost faith in the judiciary's ability to stay apolitical--that they too can, and will, play political football.

Here, in light of the DMCA, we have seen how campaign contributions have been used to push a bill thru Congress, ultimately affecting a ruling in court, with the aid of their own high-priced lawyers.

So why should you give a damn? Because perfectly legitimate actions are being illegalized! When this happens, people simple don't give a shit about the law. And when people start with that attitude, the law loses authority, and the government's claim to righteousness is eroded.

In the end, everyday hackers like you and me will simply not shit about what's "right." Because we feel that we've been wronged, everything is now fair game. And believe me, vigilante rule, all of this every-man-for-himself mentality that might spew forth--it scares the shit out of me, cuz we might not win.

decss (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541469)

efdtt.c Author: Charles M. Hannum <>
Thanks to Phil Carmody <> for additional tweaks.
Length: 434 bytes (excluding unnecessary newlines)
Usage is: cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob

#define m(i)(x[i]^s[i+84])<<
unsigned char x[5],y,s[2048];main(n){for(read(0,x,5);read(0,s,n= 2048);write(1,s
,n))if(s[y=s[13]%8+20]/16%4==1){i n t i=m(1)17^256+m(0)8,k=m(2)0,j=m(4)17^m(3)9^k
*2-k% 8^8,a=0,c=26;for(s[y]-=16;--c;j*=2)a=a*2^i&am p;1,i=i/2^j&1<<24;for(j=127;++j<n
;c= c>y)c+=y=i^i/8^i>>4^i>>12,i=i>&g t;8^y<<17,a^=a>>14,y=a^a*8^a<<6, a=a>>8^y<<9,k=s
[j],k="7Wo~'G_\216"[k&7]+2^"cr3sf w6v;*k+>/n . [k>>4]*2^k*257/8,s[j]=k^(k&k*2&34)

Utility deCSS.exe (1)

indiigo (121714) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541470)

hahah.... Wired even posted the utility IN THEIR NEWS ARTICLE! Way to go!


linefeed0 (550967) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541479)

Hey, spammers haven't gone away despite perhaps greater and more prolonged efforts... now that they're on our side, we can't lose, right?

Hardly surprised‮(gnitseretnI ,5:erocS) (1)

The Plan 9 Bunny (576615) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541480)

Who amongst us can be surprised by this shit? I don't care what anyone says, 2600 hardly has a good reputation, and the courts have not been kind of them.

SupCo will shit upon them, and perhaps that's all just as well.

Regarding the business of the Million Geek march -- can we come up with something a little fucking original? Why does everyone have to copy the Million Man march? Worthless sods.

Re:Hardly surprised‮(gnitseretnI ,5:erocS) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541537)


Re:Hardly surprised‮(gnitseretnI ,5:erocS) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541542)

Go test elsewhere you bitch. This is for legitimate discussion only.

testing 123‮testing 123 fish (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541545)

this is a test, and well hello there

1.2.3 ‮(lufthgisnI ,5:erocS) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3541564)


My guess is the Supremes probably.... (3, Informative)

apc (193970) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541501)

won't grant certiorari (the appeal). Until the issue comes up again in another circuit, they won't see any reason to rule on it. The Supreme Court takes an incredibly small (about 100) number of cases a year, from the thousands and thousands which make it up to the (13) Circuit Courts of Appeals and (50+DC, PR, etc.) State Supreme Courts. Unless two courts in different parts of the country are in conflict, or the law is clear enough to rule on it now, it just won't be a priority for them-- and it takes 4 justices to decide to hear a case (out of 9).

In a sense, I'm not sure that if I were the EFF that I'd want this to be the case in front of the Supreme Court. Don't get me wrong, I've met Emmanuel Goldstein a couple of times and he's a great guy, but to the non-geek straight world he's a Bad Criminal Hacker, not a journalist. You generally would like to have a case with a more sympathetic client before taking it up to the Supreme Court, which is why the Princeton prof or the Russian programmer writing software for the blind would have been better for us. It's too bad for 2600 if it loses, but it's worse if it loses at the highest possible level and screws up a better chance down the road for the Supreme Court to see just how terrible this law can be. Contrary to popular belief, the Supreme Court doesn't reverse themselves all that often (and the most famous time they did-- Plessy v. Ferguson being overturned by Brown v. Board of Ed of Topeka, took 58 years).

(IAAL, but this is just a prediction. YMMV.)

Re:My guess is the Supremes probably.... (2)

dvdeug (5033) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541519)

(and the most famous time they did-- Plessy v. Ferguson being overturned by Brown v. Board of Ed of Topeka, took 58 years).

But Minersville School Dist. V. Gobitis (1940) was overturned by West Virginia State Bd. of Educ. v. Barnette (1943) in just three years, and unlike Plessy v. Ferguson, this doesn't radically effect whole social systems.

The Librarian of Congress (2)

Henry V .009 (518000) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541518)

Under the DMCA, the Librarian of Congress has the power to declare whether there are substantial non-infringing uses of a decryption technology. Should we be lobbying that person on the side?

Re:The Librarian of Congress (2)

Seth Finkelstein (90154) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541556)

You mean the

"Rulemaking on Exemptions from Prohibition on Circumvention of Technological Measures that Control Access to Copyrighted Works" []

Already happened, and it'll be a while before it can be lobbied again. It only applies to doing circumvention, not to technology.

Take a look at the formal text (I'm mentioned twice! :-) ) at

Recommendation of the Register of Copyrights and Determination of the Librarian of Congress, 65 FR 64555, October 27, 2000 []

For example:

A review of the factors listed in 1201(a)(1)(C) supports the creation of this exemption. Although one can speculate that the availability of technological protection measures that deny access to the lists of blocked websites might be of benefit to the proprietors of filtering software, and might even increase the willingness of those proprietors to make the software available for use by the public, no commenters or witnesses came forward to make such an assertion. No information was presented relating to the use of either the filtering software or the lists of blocked websites for nonprofit archival, preservation and educational purposes. Nor was any information presented relating to whether the circumvention of technological measures preventing access to the lists has had an impact on the market for or value of filtering software or the compilations of objectionable websites contained therein. However, a persuasive case was made that the existence of access control measures has had an adverse effect on criticism and comment, and most likely news reporting, and that the prohibition on circumvention of access control measures will have an adverse effect."

Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project ( []

Digital bluuuues... (1)

Mulletproof (513805) | more than 12 years ago | (#3541534)

Oh, don't worry about all this. It's all going the same way as MP3 anyway. Soon, Spiderman 5 will be easily gotten on Mapster, the online movie sharing source and we'll go through this entire process all over again. It's a battle the DMCA can't win. It won't be long before the damn thing is struck down anyway. It's way too open to interpretation.
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