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KaZaA Collapses

Hemos posted more than 12 years ago | from the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it dept.

The Internet 373

MikeKD writes "according to SFGate, KaZaA has announced that it will fold due to the cost of defending itself against the RIAA & MPAA. The timing is notable since on Monday, Altnet (owned by Brillant Digital) announced plans for "sponsored listings in peer-to-peer search" on its "separate [and] secure P2P resource-sharing network"."

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373 comments

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First post. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571080)

I apologize for not doing this logged in. But it's your own damn fault for not getting it first, you lazy asshole.

Newsflash! (2, Insightful)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571086)

Being on the Internet does not make one immune to copyright laws!

In a similar vein (1)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571108)

Why run away to Vanuatu if there's nothing wrong with what you're doing?

Because it is clearly an illegal operation and they are simply taking it offshore to make it more difficult to sue. I gotta side with the plaintiffs here, it really does seem to be a shell game.

Re:In a similar vein (3, Informative)

plumby (179557) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571202)

Just because you're right doesn't mean that you aren't going to lose in court. See the McLibel [mcspotlight.org] case for a demonstration of this. If someone else has enough money and you don't, then you are almost definitely going to either lose the case, or are going to end up settling out of court because you can't afford to carry on. It's nothing to do with right or wrong.

I'm not claiming that Kazaa are right, but their moving to Vanuatu proves nothing.

Re:Newsflash! (3, Interesting)

Pogue Mahone (265053) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571120)

But whose copyright laws do you have to obey?

Re:Newsflash! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571128)

Frankly, I'd prefer the country of the copyright holder's choice.

Re:Newsflash! (2, Insightful)

cyborch (524661) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571178)

I'd prefer the country where the copyright holder resides. Otherwise people who stole from me ought to have their hands cut off (some middle eastern law)...

Why should copyright holders have the right to go against the laws of their country and use the laws of any foreign country? The fact that their copyrighted material is available internationally should hardly make the copyright holder choose which law to use...

Re:Newsflash! (2)

GutBomb (541585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571200)

it would be unfortunate that if i were to make some copyrighted material in the US and then be forced to move to taiwan.

Re:Newsflash! (1)

JonnyCalcutta (524825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571187)

I choose Moldavia then, since copyright infringment carries a mandatory death sentence. Or Afganistan where I can set up my own kangaroo court. Or my private island nation of Baronga where I am the law! Or in international waters where I can do what I want.
Hopefully you get the picture.

Re:Newsflash! (2, Insightful)

ranulf (182665) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571214)

But whose copyright laws do you have to obey?

This new idea of being able to choose where to sue for copyright infringement seems very wrong to me. Surely the idea is that every citizen in any country should be responsible to keep to the laws in their country, and suffer the penalties imposed by their country when they break them.

Ralf.

KaZaa != KaZaa (4, Interesting)

spacefight (577141) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571087)

Aren't the dutch representatives (the ones beeing sued) not the owner of the software (and with it, the newtork) any longer? Well why should RIAA & Friends sue them any longer? Why didn't they already filed suit against Sherman Networks in OZ? Or does anyone know if they alleged them already for copyright infridgement (lol)?

Re:KaZaa != KaZaa (1)

Beliskner (566513) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571173)

OK, balloon's gone up. Let's quit bitchin' and get that open source Russian Kazaa client and build an open source Kazaa server, maybe merge it with Gnutella or Freenet. Kazaa is closer to true P2P than Napster was. I think in the meantime a quick change in your HOSTS file stating Kazaa's login server IP address is in Russia someplace.

Re:KaZaa != KaZaa (2)

HeUnique (187) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571184)

it's a hacked version of kazaa media desktop, not open source implementation.

Re:KaZaa != KaZaa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571247)

giFT: Internet File Transfer [sourceforge.net] is a P2P software. The idea is similiar to FastTrack and the system seems to be stable.

Most of the time the network only has about 130 people online however, as opposed to the masses of KaZaa.

KAAaaZooOozooooOmmM (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571088)

KaaaAaZZzAaaaaaaaamMmmMMm.

Try to catch me ... (4, Interesting)

CyberQ (304799) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571090)

It seems "only" the company has to give up. The system will live on - in a more exotic location:

The Web site and the software behind it are now owned by a privately held firm called Sharman Networks, based in Vanuatu, an island in the Pacific.

This promises to be an interesting legal battle, esp. for jurisdiction and enforcement of any rulings. The question is: Will the servers be moved to Vanuatu as well?

Re:Try to catch me ... (3, Insightful)

spacefight (577141) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571097)

Which servers? The supernodes (which holds up the net IIRC) are the users themself. Or are you talking about the DRM stuff (which nobody is interested in..)?

Re:Try to catch me ... (1)

GnomeKing (564248) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571179)

The servers which give the user their initial contact?

IIRC, unlike some other networks, kazaa users connect to one server to retrieve a list of alternate nodes to connect to

Vanuatu and Banking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571166)

Heh! Last time I checked, Vanuatu had no extradition treaties with major countries and totally safe banking for any kinda money you don't want people to be able to take via lawsuits etc.

In fact as of about 4 years ago, it was a major offshore banking nation.

We knew Sharman Networks were kinda scummy, but at least they are smart scum...fearless and inventive ;*)

Re:Try to catch me ... (1)

trumpetplayer (520581) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571225)

> It seems "only" the company has to give up. The system will live on - in a more exotic location

Sure, as it was supposed to happen to Napster.

Re:Try to catch me ... (2, Funny)

walkern (235600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571287)

Vanuatu is trying to clean up it's banking system which has been used for offshore havens for all sorts of monies that should have been taxed. It's not really a surprise that a company trying to evade legal action would hide there. The lengths companies will go to to provide free pr0n and mp3z to people never ceases to amaze me :)

oh well (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571092)

guess i'll have to get my movies and porn somewhere else, it's not like there's a lack of choices

Re:oh well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571239)

Eventually there maybe though.

Re:oh well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571277)

not really, true P2P, things like freenet will be very very hard to stop unless you violate your lovely free speach get out of jail free card, i wish we had that in the UK...

Heyyoooo (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571096)

I am one of the first people who posted very early.


Regarding the Kazaa,
I will miss them.
:)

Someone actually uses Kazaa?? (3, Interesting)

Mindjiver (71) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571098)

Why would anyone wanna use Kazaa when you could use DirectConnect?

Re:Someone actually uses Kazaa?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571141)

Because Directconnect is sloooowwwww.

Mike

Re:Someone actually uses Kazaa?? (3, Interesting)

AngryAndDrunk (574308) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571142)

How do you search for files on DirectConnect?

I admit that I've barely looked at it (I'm not exactly a huge p2p user anyway), but from what I saw the whole idea is that you connect directly to (a group of) computer(s), then see what's being shared on them.

So, how do I find a specific song/video/document/whatever? Do you really have to connect to every computer on the network in turn, hoping that what you're after will be on them? Or is it only intended for people who don't particularly care what they find, as long as they find something?

Re:Someone actually uses Kazaa?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571207)

you can serch using direct connect. that's what the bigass SEARCH text box is for right at the top of the window :)

Re:Someone actually uses Kazaa?? (2)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571203)

Question: Does it work in Linux? If it does, I might give it a shot

Re:Someone actually uses Kazaa?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571223)

it works in Linux, but youll need qt3
http://dc.ketelhot.de

Re:Someone actually uses Kazaa?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571313)

http://www.winmx.com the only "piratesearchenginesoftware" I've ever used and it seems to be up still =)

NOOOooo !! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571099)

I haven't finished downloading Star Wars yet !!

So???? (3, Informative)

Newer Guy (520108) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571101)

"The collapse of Kazaa, however, is not expected to slow trading activity on the company's network, one of the most popular file-sharing sites in the world. Kazaa said it has sold the network to another firm that the music and film industry has not sued yet. " They sold off all their assets and now they're cashing out. Big deal.

HEHE (2)

Em Emalb (452530) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571102)

"Kazaa said it has sold the network to another firm that the music and film industry has not sued yet."

Just give them time, just give them a little time and they will have sued every one in the entire world :P

Re:HEHE (1)

GnomeKing (564248) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571117)

this is, of course, the RIAA's plan to take over the world

I just wonder which will win when the RIAA and microsoft battle it out for the post of supreme dictator of the world

Cheers! (2, Funny)

mqduck (232646) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571107)

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but I'm gonna bet that I'm not the only one who is unhappy about the legality of it, but excited that KaZaa might crash and burn.

Long live Gnutella [gnutella.com] !

-Jeff

Re:Cheers! (1)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571191)

Too bad Gnutella sucks. Is it possible to download file from multiple sources simultaneously? How much stuff is there when compared to Kazaa/FastTrack? After using Gnutella, it seems that there's not as much content and you can only download file from one source at a time.

Re:Cheers! (3, Informative)

GutBomb (541585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571218)

when kazaa users switch to gnutella after the kazaa network dies (eventually those login servers will go bye bye) they will bring thier files with them. In turn, gnutella will have the same file selection as kazaa. and many gnutella clients allow you to download from multiple sources.

Re:Cheers! (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571307)

Exactly what I was thinking!

Join the crusade and convert those spyware-ridden Kazaa users to the Light Side of the Force and show them the delights of Open Source Gnutella Clients.

Re:Cheers! (4, Informative)

Gibbys Box of Trix (176568) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571331)

many gnutella clients allow you to download from multiple sources.

Which, specifically? If I like it, then this Kazaa user will bring all his files to Gnutella.

My experiences of Gnutella recently (using Limewire) have been that there are few files, most of which you can't even begin to download (file unavailable, retrying in 10..9..8..7..etc), when you are lucky enough to get one, it's incomplete, or not what it says it is. It's okay for music, but even then doesn't have the selection that's available on Kazaa.

Compare and contrast to Kazaa from which I have recently got RTCW, Spiderman (movie and game), Fifa World Cup 2002, Freedom Force, Jedi Knight II, and am currently getting GTA3.

Gnutella is okay... (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571302)

Yes GNUcleus allows you to download from different sources simultaneously. Works okay *if* of course the file is offered by more than one host. And *that* is not very often so.

The content is okay if you like Pr0n, what is annoying is that the names given to the files are not accurate at all and sometimes you wind up downloading a movie you already have.
For music, I mostly don't have too exotic tastes (well, and I buy the CD's anyway) so it works out quite fine. My sister is more an alternative music fan, and she seems happy. At least, I saw her burn several CD's lately with downloaded covers from the net and all. So the selection must not be too bad. Of course, the more users we get, the better.

Who cares (1)

C0DE (578705) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571116)

The new WinMX v3.1 is a lot better than any filesharing program there is right now. They recently added lots of new features to make file searching and downloading more efficient. I won't miss Kazaa. (Although it's sad the MPAA & RIAA are getting their way.)

überlaw (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571122)

money == überlaw :(

"In a related story... (4, Interesting)

Soulslayer (21435) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571123)

...Spy Software companies and makers of other beneficial consumer products wholly unrelated to virus software announce that they expect a downturn in profits and expect to lay off 75% of personnel."

Seriously folks, is this really a bad thing?

P2P software is a nice idea, but I would be more interested in them if they were more user controllable. I'd much rather have a P2P network comprised solely of individuals that I trust than to be connected to a sea of people do not know eating my bandwidth searching for things I do not have and do not want.

Give me a P2P solution that allows me to selectively authorize requests to my system and communicate only with those other people that I wish to communicate with. A mini P2P between myself and my friends.

Re:"In a related story... (1)

bankman (136859) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571188)

That should be simple enough: Hack on one of the Open Source Napster servers (e.g. OpenNap) and implement a reasonably secure authentication mechanism. Run this server and grant access rights to people you trust.

Alternatively, start blocking requests on your firewall, just kidding :-)

In case you only have a small number of trusted people that you want to share files with, build a VPN and use a central file server. Or you could just setup the required number of ssh accounts.

Pure P2P networks like Gnutella rely on each user dedicating a certain amount of bandwidth to form an ad-hoc backbone to route queries and balance the load. It is therefore unavoidable to allow unwanted traffic. That's not nice, but you don't have to become a part of it if you don't want to.

I am not an expert, but I think it would be quite difficult to layer a personalized trust model on top of the current P2P models like Gnutella. Any ideas?

Re:"In a related story... (1)

k-zed (92087) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571231)

AFAIK, a p2p solution called 'Direct Connect' (homepage: here [neo-modus.com] ) supports 'private hubs': I think this is just what you wanted. A problem is that the original software package is windows-only; but of course, there are some linux ports available. The system itself is quite elegant, works nicely and has everything you would expect from a good p2p package, however I recall hearing that some windows implementations use Visual Basic, which is just plain wrong.

Re:"In a related story... (1)

Soulslayer (21435) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571283)

Ah Excellent. If it behaves as you describe this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

I will have to check it and it's Linux ports out later.

Re:"In a related story... (1)

cyborch (524661) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571193)

Give me a P2P solution that allows me to selectively authorize requests to my system and communicate only with those other people that I wish to communicate with.

Is that not exactly what DirectConnect does?

(I haven't used any of these products so I do not know for sure, but AFAIK DirectConnect has hubs that the maintainer sets some requirements on which people who want to join have to meet.)

Re:"In a related story... (2, Insightful)

Rinikusu (28164) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571208)

Um.. how about using FTP?

Re:"In a related story... (1)

Soulslayer (21435) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571291)

See my above comment.

I want something more freeform than Client-Server applications like FTP, but more controllable than raw open P2P. Direct Connect mentioned by the above folks sounds more along the lines of what I was looking for, but I have yet to try it as I am at work currently.

Re:"In a related story... (3, Insightful)

GutBomb (541585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571233)

ummm, it's called FTP. set up an ftp server, give the address out to your friends, and have them set up ftps and give the address to you. simple. if you want to chat, fire up an icq/irc...

Re:"In a related story... (1)

Soulslayer (21435) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571275)

Sure FTP is no biggie for me to setup.

However this makes everyone reliant on one persons server or fragments the file sharing into a bunch of small FTP servers running on seperate machines with seperate logins and seperate maintainers.

You can use your same argument to say why the hell do we have P2P services in the first place? It can all be replicated by Clinet-Server systems.

What it comes down to is a nice clean GUI interface to a series of distributed files amongst a group or small group of friends has usuability and bandwidth advantages that centralized systems do not.

Now with the friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend sort of free form P2P you start getting a bit unweildy.

The best way I can describe what I am talking about is something akin to the differences between IRC, AIM, and ICQ.

IRC is the central server password protected access sort of model (private channels and varying levels of user control). (FTP)

AIM is the free for all anyone can bug anyone else at any time way of things. (Full on P2P)

ICQ has some minor permissions setup for individual person to person chat. You set whether you want anyone in the world to talk to you or only people that you authorize. (Small Group P2P)

Re:"In a related story... (1)

NeoSkandranon (515696) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571290)

You can chat on Ka[a]za[a]? I honestly had no idea. I bet all four people who did chat on there will miss that.

hell with 'em (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571126)

they were crap, and pulled all kinds of fucky tricks like spyware...

good riddance.

Truly Amazing (3, Insightful)

matrim99 (123693) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571129)

It never ceases to amaze me that the major record companies don't see *free advertising* when it's in front of their faces. Those folks who pirate content and don't end up buying that content wouldn't have purchased it in the first place, so there is no net loss. Those who would have purchased the content that they download can access a wider variety of content online, and will end up purchasing more. MP3 quality is a far cry from CD quality, afterall.

Just look at what videotapes did for the movie industry (and when VHS/Beta first came out, the movie industry feared that these would kill the movie industry). They took the technology that they feared, ran with it, and ended up making MORE $ from video sales than from the box office.

Re:Truly Amazing (1)

Zeddicus_Z (214454) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571138)

Of course, the only reason VHS makes the studios money is because they get a licensing cut for each video sold. Doesn't apply to Kazaa, because *no-one* makes money.

Now, if you'd likened the current situation to one where Hollywood had a monopoly on P2P file sharing, then your analogy would have made more sense.

It's not really about free ads, though (2, Insightful)

e-gold (36755) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571162)

And IMO it's not even about their experience with VHS time-shifting and video sales making them more money after they complained, as you correctly pointed out. (Of course, they also get a tax on blank media, still, for some reason...)

I think the real conflict is about control. Control of artists, users, and any possible bottlenecks between them are therefore a GOOD thing, to the RIAA, because that's control and they fear losing control even more than losing money -- even if it would lead to a better product for consumers (or better compensation-levels for musicians, who must also be controlled).
JMR

(My opinions only, nobody else wants 'em anyway.)

Re:Truly Amazing (5, Insightful)

TheAJofOZ (215260) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571189)

MP3 quality is a far cry from CD quality, afterall.

Well, not really. On a good quality sound system, MP3 is a far cry from CD quality - on an average sound system to average people, it's pretty much the same. I suspect that a very large majority of people would fail blind tests judging between MP3s and CDs playing on their own sound system. Heck, most people would fail when played on a top quality sound system - they listen to Britney Spears for goodness sake! :)

Re:Truly Amazing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571261)

they listen to Britney Spears for goodness sake! :)

Her music may suck, but DAMN is she hot. Nice job with the implants honey. Those Pepsi commercials are tasty.

Re:Truly Amazing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571301)

I think using Britney as an advertising tool has worked wonders... I'm horny as hell, and for some reason I feel the need to drink a Pepsi...

Re:Truly Amazing (1)

weird mehgny (549321) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571284)

MP3 quality is a far cry from CD quality

Depends. While I am no audiophile, I can't hear the difference between 320kbps MP3:s and the sound straight from the CD. If there is a difference, it probably depends on differences in the volume settings...

The issue is of course that 95% of all MP3:s on P2P networks are horrible quality 128kbps MP3:s... I know some networks are better in this department, Kazaa doesn't even let you search for 320kbps MP3:s! If anything, that could actually be a reason for the RIAA to keep off it... people can't get the CD quality music anyway.

Anyone know how a 128kbps MP3 compares to an analog tape recording?

On a partially unrelated note, I think you who are audiophiles should check out FLAC [sourceforge.net] which provides lossless sound compression at something like a 50% file compression rate. Now that's an alternative if you like to conveniently store music on your hard drive but don't want to lose quality in some CD->MP3 or CD->OGG conversion...

How? (2)

Mr_Silver (213637) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571133)

How can Kazaa continue? I was always led to believe that it wasn't true peer-to-peer as you had to sign onto their servers.

Surely if they go down, then all the clients will have nowhere to connect and hence not be able to locate other people connected on it. Unlike Gnutella in which each user maintains a list of nodes and tries all of them until it finds one connected in which to pull off other nodes.

This would also explain why the need to "log on" to kazaa and why it's relativily (compaired to Gnutella) fast to find the nodes.

Or am I missing something?

Re:How? (2)

evilviper (135110) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571293)

How can Kazaa continue?


KaZaA is sort of peer-to-peer... Before KaZaA decided to shaft Morpheus users, there were open source clones out there. The reason these clones no longer work is that KaZaA began sending clients a key, and if you didn't have that key you couldn't communicate with other users that did. So, in that respect, KaZaA going down would be a good thing.

As far as a central server being used to get the list of hosts... I believe you are correct that it won't use it's cached list.

In response to your sluightly dergoatory mention of Gnutella, I can tell you that it would take only fairly minor changes to the Gnutella servants out there to make it much much better than KaZaA... But it seem Gnutella programers don't impliment the obvious for whatever reason.

This is the Dutch Kazaa, NOT the Vanuatu one (3, Informative)

Zeddicus_Z (214454) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571134)

Kazaa no longer owns the client or the website. It sold them to a Vanuatan based company called Sharman Networks (originally thought to be based in Australia.)

So, basically, Kazaa BV sold the application to Sharman to sidestep the lawsuits. Action failes and Kazaa BV goes down anyway.

I spose they've just put Sharman on notice.

Interesting (2)

jchawk (127686) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571137)

If the people running this do decide to thumb their noses at everyone, move the servers to this island and continue to do what they'd like, they better not live in the US, because they are still liable and will be hauled into court.

So the owners better move with the equipment if this is the route they are planning on taking.

*no where in the article did it say these things, this is just a hypothetical situation*

It's a shame... (3, Insightful)

DarkDust (239124) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571144)

...that "organizations" (they act more like companies like MS, don't they ?) like RIAA and MPAA are able to force other companies out of business simply by filing lawsuits until the company in question is running out of money.

And it's a shame that no one stops those a******s at RIAA and MPAA. They both have far too much power at their hands and play us consumers for a sucker...

Their pricy hands even reach us here in Europe... scary thing.

In-depth coverage in LA times article (3, Informative)

Seth Finkelstein (90154) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571147)

That story was the AP breaking-news version. There's much more detail in the LA times version [trb.com] , which discusses the litigation in more depth. Particularly notable (money, money, money ...):

Lawyers for another defendant, Streamcast Networks Inc., which launched the Morpheus file-sharing network, voiced a similar complaint. Morpheus' main law firm, Palo Alto-based Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, told the court it intends to withdraw from the case because Streamcast can't afford to pay the bills. ...

Legal fees are running high in the case not only because it's extremely important to some of the world's largest media companies but also because it involves several of California's biggest law firms. ...

Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]

my life is a joke (4, Funny)

clinko (232501) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571150)

My life is a joke... I spent the last few weeks writing a p2p program.

Just finished, at 5 a.m. Guess I don't want to get sued

It was fun while it lasted...

Re:my life is a joke (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571248)

Just release it anonymously. Or move to the cayman islands. I hear the weather is nice there.

Re:my life is a joke (1)

Organic_Info (208739) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571318)

I once made Removable HDD's used by the UK M.O.D. does that mean I'm liable to be sued by people have been on the receiving end of the UK military - err no I don't think so.

I see you point though - lifes getting pretty stupid at the moment.
.

Shouldn't the RIAA &co get slamed (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571151)

Surly there's a country somewhere where this kind of activity (suing someone until they break, even though you might not have a leg to stand on) is illegal.
Isn't this equivalent to racketeering or something.

Re:Shouldn't the RIAA &co get slamed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571220)

Uhm, heh, no, that isn't racketeering. You'd have a hard time making this illegal. A big company suing a little company should be made illegal - is basically are saying. Not only would large corporations lobby that one to death, it wouldn't even make sense. Then you'd have someone in the MPAA (or RIAA) start up a small company and do something just to get TiVo (or other company that is hated by MPAA/RIAA) to sue them. It wouldn't even make sense. Come on though, do you really think that there is only a little bit of piracy on KaZaa, gnutella, ... Hell, I bet every IRC network has just as many people using it to pirate as they do for its "intended" purpose.

Re:Shouldn't the RIAA &co get slamed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571292)

Hell, I bet every IRC network has just as many people using it to pirate as they do for its "intended" purpose.

You know, there's just something so impersonal about P2P. With FTP and IRC it seemed like you had a closer relationship with your fellow copyright infringers. There was no feeling like going into an FTP stash and finding a huge motherload of goods to keep you occupied. With P2P networks you need to search for stuff, try downloading it from multiple people who have shitty connections, etc. Eventually you may get it, sometimes you don't. Good hacked FTP sites on DS-3's were always better.

Not quite what i said (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571316)

A big company repeadly sueing lots of little companies, and if they loose the case, they keep sueing until the little company is no more.

Also theres the ' Not only would large corporations lobby that one to death' issue this is why i said racketeering, not only are they focusing on potential threats to there power in companies and individuals, but also governments ( and not doing to bad a job by the looks of the DMCA)

As for piracy, remember the good old days of tapes, now how many of your tapes were coppied from mates etc.... Piracy is a poor excuse.
What the RIAA want is market controle, the ability to create 'Stars', and to a large extent sway the market they are selling to to fit the model they want to use. i.e.
take

1 Shit song, but a bit hummable (must be owned by the label)

1 or more Prity bird[s], (helps if they can't sing that well, and will sign anytthing to get there face on T.V.)

2-3 months of promotion, try to push for kids T.V., make the 'Band?' appear to be popular (buy this record or you'll have no friends should work).

Keep on the boil for a few months, or untill people realise that the birds can't sing, and the song is shit.

Sue anyone trying to free music from your grasps untill they die a horrible death.

Doh... (1)

CharonX (522492) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571153)

and I was looking forward so much to be part of Brillant Digitals altnet :p But humor aside - since the software and the side are owned by another company they will have to sue them too to completely shut down the KaZaA network, right?

Software is not to blame (3, Interesting)

jukal (523582) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571157)

If I create a system which enables people to share files, how do I violate anyones copyright?

And if it does violate something, where is the magic line: why could not for example usenet news be considered as similar system then? It can be used as an organized tool for sharing copyrighted material. Should server admins start making sure that no copyrighted material is posted - and if yes, how do you make this possible? In my opinion, this Kazaa case is exactly similar.

They can keep running Kazaa and it's future breed into bankcruptcy, but it will not solve anything. They are just playing cat'n'mouse. Someday, they will notice that mice fuck much more, kill one, and you have a dozen new. Someday, they will realise that they have to affect something else, this something else is in "peoples mind" and is the reason why Kazaas are created.

How far do you want to extend this argument? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571206)

Ok, how about I create a website which allows people to submit houses that are worth breaking into and also lets other people search for those houses in their area. It'll provide the address, approximate value of stealable goods, what the security is like and times when the occupants aren't home. And because it's submitted by the users, the company isn't liable by your logic.

Would YOU like YOUR house on there? No? Didn't think so.

The law is being infringed and the buck has to stop somewhere, either the company is punished or the users are punished. I say the people who are profiting from the theft of intellectual property (through banners) should be punished. This is similar to the police targetting drug dealers instead of users.

And yes I am aware that legitimate artists use P2P to distribute their work ... perhaps they should try mp3.com

And no, I'm not a troll, but I suspect that the illegal-mp3-downloading moderators will think otherwise.

Re:How far do you want to extend this argument? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571273)

There's a minor problem with your argument. If someone comes and takes my CD player then I no longer have a CD player. If someone comes and downloads my song from someone it is still there in the exact form. Someone else can come along and download it. Nobody is losing anything. Complaining that downloading a song from someone is "stealing" is as ridiculous as calling skipping advertisements on network TV or cable "stealing". Guess what, I'm not going to go out and buy the fucking Afroman CD just to listen to that "Cause I got high" song but I will grab the 128kbps mp3 just for the hell of it to listen to once in awhile and add to my collection. This is strange economics the RIAA/MPAA is trying to cash in on... by someone copying a song that means they did not sell a copy. They don't take into effect that you wouldn't have bought that copy anyway and that they didn't lose anything. They've gained free advertising. Radio stations allow users to steal music all the time. I could sit here all day and tape songs off the radio... should I go to jail?

Re:How far do you want to extend this argument? (3, Insightful)

jukal (523582) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571281)

>Ok, how about I create a website which allows people to submit houses that are worth breaking into and also lets other people

Yes, go ahead, I think you should have all the right to do it. Your system could be used to post anything, for example the best clip from your porn collection. It could be also used to post stolen credit card IDs, or a picture of you and your dog doing something kinky.

Still. THE SOFTWARE IS NOT TO BLAME. Software does NOT know whether the data posted there is criminal or not. The people who post it do know it. People are to blame, the people who break into houses, sell the goods, or other stolen information such as credit card data, or house key info.

Even how hard it is to catch these individuals, you cannot start blaming sunpoints for stealing you copyright.

Your argument is void.

Re:How far do you want to extend this argument? (1)

Organic_Info (208739) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571309)

"Ok, how about I create a website which allows people to submit houses that are worth breaking into and also lets other people search for those houses in their area. "

Fine I'll just go and sue you, the creators of html and the internet for aiding those with criminal intent - err hold on wouldn't those with criminal intent do it any way with or without the tool who cares lets go sue some ass.

Actually a hammer can be used to aid breaking into a house, maybe I should go and sue some of those criminal tool companies.

:p

Interesting strategy (5, Interesting)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571159)

I'm actually quite taken with Kazaa's strategy. It seems like they're just going to keep "selling" the name and technology to own of their own subsidiaries or spin-offs, then fold whatever part of the company is currently being sued.

Of course, it's a scam, and the [MP|RI]AA can just pursue the new owner... who can just sell on the name and technology, and fold. They'll have to actually go after the owners personally, which is a completely different proposition.

I'm not exactly enamoured with Kazaa (gnutella for me, thanks), but I think they've hit on the only possible defence to the "litagate them into submission" tactics that the [MP|RI]AA are increasingly turning to. However, it's yet another indicator that if you want to start an innovative business, don't do it inthe USA, or in anywhere with strong treaties with the USA. That part is very sad.

Re:Interesting strategy (5, Insightful)

mshiltonj (220311) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571215)

... yet another indicator that if you want to start an innovative business, don't do it inthe USA, or in anywhere with strong treaties with the USA.

I mostly agree.

If you clarify by saying "innovative and disruptive" business, then I think you are 100% correct. You can be innovative, but you can't disrupt revenue streams of larger corporations.

Innovation may be tolerated, depending on circumstances. Disruptive technology will be eliminated at all costs.

Re:Interesting strategy (1)

Salsaman (141471) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571289)

And people still wonder why there is a recession in the US...

Oh no.. (5, Funny)

mumblestheclown (569987) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571160)

where will I get my spyware from now?

*THEIR* network? I don't think so. (1)

caveman (7893) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571161)

the Altnet Resource Network, a resource-sharing network that aggregates under-utilized computing resources to reduce bandwidth, processing and storage costs for large enterprise companies, Web sites and digital content companies.

Would this be the Alt.Net spyware [cnn.com] that the Kazaa stuff installed?

We have a word for that in the UK, or rather a lot of words. We call it the Computer Misuse Act [hmso.gov.uk]

Couldn't Happen To A Nicer Company (Execpt M$!) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3571167)

Good riddens to bad rubbish, Kazaa has hurt both its users and the record compainys, spy ware and piracy, now lets c how many friends they have left.

But even Microsoft do not pirate mp3s

Hey (1)

Treeluvinhippy (545814) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571174)

Maybe now Morphous has a chance to get back on the FastTrack again.

Kazaa folds, but lives on. (4, Insightful)

hkmwbz (531650) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571181)

From the article:
"The Web site and the software behind it are now owned by a privately held firm called Sharman Networks, based in Vanuatu, an island in the Pacific."
This was presented as if it was something new. Far from it, Sharman Networks bought up Kazza a long time ago. I actually thought Kazaa was part of Sharman Networks (and not based in the Netherlands). In any case, as the article also states, it won't affect the network.

Sadly.

It is a waste to have to use a specific client to access this network. When I saw the "subject" of the story I thought for a moment that this would be a great time to open up the FastTrack network and remove the authentication.

But it looks like the network and client software were never in danger here, and that they can continue the centralized authentication system.

It looks like this is basically a non-event, as it has no effect what so ever, unless I've missed something.

Sadly.

good riddance (1)

erichj (445099) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571182)

personally i am glad that kazaa is leaving. people are always quick to point out that it's the sharing of information that makes the net work, but they never make the distinction between information and illegal distribution of software.

Parasites deserve to go under (2, Informative)

Dynamoo (527749) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571199)

These people not only steal other peoples music, but the scumware that gets installed onto your PC steals commissions from website operators.

Check out scumware.com [scumware.com] and Parasiteware [parasiteware.com] for more info on these. Another case for AdAware!

More in-depth article at CNET (4, Informative)

silvaran (214334) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571244)

CNet has a longer article with quotes from testimony, etc. @ Kazaa, Morpheus legal case collapsing [com.com] .

Don't worry, our hands are clean! (0, Troll)

BaconLT (555713) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571253)

It always makes me laugh, how hundreds of thousands of users will use p2p software for uses they know are illegal, but whenever lawsuits like this happen, they act so surprised!

Don't get me wrong, I use it just the same as you do: downloading music and software I'm not planning on paying for. Sometimes it's just to try the software and music out, but it's still software and music piracy. I don't agree with the copyright laws, but I know it's true.

Just because a lot of people break the law, it does not CHANGE the law. The best way to fix a law that stinks is to help to make a change. Breaking it in rebellion and not accepting the consequenses makes you no better than a riotous mob or a child caught stealing in the candy store who throws a tantrum.

I'm not even saying that the lawsuit has a solid base to stand on, nor am I saying that it's fair how they'll run companies like KaZaA out of business... All I'm saying is, "don't act so damn surprised! you're stealing!"

Bah (0)

weird mehgny (549321) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571255)

If you're going to trade files, trade directly with your friends. It's faster and more reliable...

And besides, copying files for private purposes is not illegal AFAIK, at least not where I live, so giving a copy of the latest Britney Spears (yeah right) album to a dude of yours probably isn't illegal no matter the case.

bye bye kazaa (3, Informative)

hopey (172229) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571265)

this works for me: [fsf.org]
mldokey open source edonkey client for most unix platforms.

hopey

Kazaa without Authentication? (2)

Slashamatic (553801) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571320)

In my understanding, Kazaa relies on user/client authentication by a server. This will ensure that the client is the one that is full of spyware etc. However, it was determined during the Morpheus collapse that if there was no logon server, the older Morpheus client could contuinue (it was just a one-time lock out in the registry that prevented the client from continuing).

Is this true? Regrettably, Gnutella doesn't seem to be as effective for P2P, so it would be good if Kazaa clients can continue. In particular, it is plagued by tar-pits, that is people setting themselves up as supernodes or for unlimited uploading without having adequte processing power or bandwidth.

We should sue them (1)

Ilgaz (86384) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571321)

Because of thinking all of us are morons...

geez

Do the RIAA/MPAA really stand a chance? (2, Interesting)

miffo.swe (547642) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571330)

I for one dont think so. First of all Kazaa, Morpheus, Bearshare etc is one of a wast number of ways to get illegal content from the internet. FTP, Friends, IRC, SMB shares, Usenet, maillists with ftp addresess sent out etc. etc. The dont stand a chance to close down much. Especially since they havent got a fixed target. They try to get the biggest players down but there are quickly someone else there to fill the gap. How can you shut gnutella? Shut bearshare and then someone else sets up a hosts cache in tanzania, uzbekistan or perhaps write the ip with laser on the moon where noone have jurisdiction.

They are fitghting a loosing battle and hsould rather think about how they can make money on this. To shut filesharing down is probably not possible.

How appropriate... (1)

radiashun (220050) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571333)

"You can kill me, but two more will take my place."

Seriously, if they released the code to something like Kazaa people could just modify that code a bit, close it up, and overrun the RIAA with court cases.

copyright violation eh? (2)

shd99004 (317968) | more than 12 years ago | (#3571338)

Filesharing tools doesn't violate copyrights.
People violate copyrights.
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