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XP Service Pack Does the Impossible

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the sworn-testimony-may-have-slight-inaccuracies dept.

Microsoft 633

Peyna writes "This article over at C|net discusses the upcoming Microsoft Windows XP service pack, which will contain the normal bug fixes, but more importantly, will make XP more modular, allowing you to override their default products. I assume this means Internet Explorer and possibly some other apps as well."

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First Microsoft Post (-1)

Whistler's Mother (539004) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578744)

PROPS to All the Logged in Trolls

It's the information age, all right. Your systems overflow with data about customers, sales, production, employees, business partners, the competition, and your Web site. Collecting the data was easy. Getting it to flow throughout your business and into the hands of people who need it--that is today's challenge. And it's your challenge to work out.

Imagine what your company would look like if you could provide an information infrastructure that tied data, applications, and systems together all the way from code to client. Imagine:

Seamless access to important data anytime, anyplace, and on any device.
The free flow of information from customer to employee to partner--and back again.
Streamlined operations where mundane tasks are handled automatically and knowledge workers focus on turning opportunities into success.
Now that would be an information revolution.


With .NET-connected software from Microsoft, the revolution is upon us. A comprehensive set of tools, servers, and applications, Microsoft® .NET delivers everything you need to build, deploy, and manage XML Web services. Based on industry-standard protocols--including XML, SOAP, WSDL, and UDDI--XML Web services provide a simple, powerful way to tie together legacy code and systems written in any programming language.

Because they are reusable and programmable, XML Web services built on .NET enable you to take advantage of the flexibility of the Internet. You can also turn isolated data stores and proprietary applications into a single, tightly integrated whole that unlocks the value of past IT investments and lays the groundwork for future information technologies.

Develop Rapidly
Microsoft Visual Studio® .NET is a comprehensive tool set for rapidly building and integrating XML Web services. The Microsoft .NET Framework provides a complete programming model for building, deploying, and running XML Web services and applications. Two important technologies sit at the heart of the .NET Framework:

Common language runtime
.NET class libraries
Common Language Runtime
The execution engine for all .NET-connected software, the common language runtime handles code management, language integration, and security. With support for more than 20 languages, the common language runtime opens the door to rapid development by allowing objects and applications written in different languages to communicate with each other.

.NET Class Libraries
.NET class libraries speed time to market by enabling developers to implement rich application features with just a few lines of code.

Streamline Deployment
Equally important, the .NET Framework provides a simplified deployment model that supports implementation of fully compiled applications and eliminates the DLL versioning issues that have plagued enterprise application rollout efforts in the past. With the .NET Framework, you can deploy applications simply by copying files to a disk.

Security features of the .NET Framework--including evidence-based security, code access security, and role-based security--help eliminate the flawed code that still stands as one of the greatest threats to corporate data integrity. Powerful authentication, authorization, and cryptographic routines give you granular control over data access at every level.

Because .NET is supported by leading technology consultants, developers, and service organizations around the world, you have the option of developing solutions in-house, calling on Microsoft Consulting Services, or working with any of the more than 1 million experts trained as Microsoft Certified Partners.

Manage Efficiently
One thing that hasn't changed in today's economy is the need for rock-solid infrastructure. The newest member of the Windows Server family--Microsoft Windows .NET Server, now in Beta 3 release--has new features to better connect your enterprise.

Microsoft .NET Enterprise Servers are the fastest way to integrate, manage, and Web-enable your business. With industry-leading support for standards like EDI, XML, and SOAP, and a comprehensive library of more than 100 adapters for popular customer relationship management (CRM), enterprise resource planning (ERP), and other applications, Microsoft BizTalk® Server 2002 ensures flexibility and interoperability. Enterprise Applications Integration (EAI) through BizTalk Server helps you integrate with legacy applications and automate processes. The powerful Web-based development and execution environment inherent to BizTalk Server integrates loosely coupled, long-running business processes both within and between businesses.

BizTalk Server is the choice of global enterprises like Ford Motor Co., which has selected BizTalk Server to integrate its eHub project. eHub is a corporatewide, internal and external integration platform that allows Ford to exchange information seamlessly and instantly both within its organization and with its suppliers.

Microsoft Mobile Information Server 2001 provides a secure foundation for connecting workers in the field and on the factory floor using mobile devices such as smart phones and Pocket PCs. Build, deploy, and maintain sophisticated mobile Web applications using the Microsoft Mobile Internet Toolkit, which is tightly integrated with the Visual Studio .NET design environment.

Use XML Web Services to Run Your Business Better
With a seamless information infrastructure in place, you reap a broad range of tangible benefits offered by .NET -connected software. Using .NET Enterprise Servers and Microsoft Office XP Web Components, you can deliver advanced business analysis tools that empower your employees to make intelligent, strategic decisions based on a clear reading of up-to-the-minute business conditions.

By providing a clear path from code to client, XML Web services built on .NET enable you to tie mobile devices to important corporate data, wherever it resides and whenever employees and partners need it.

Finally (1, Redundant)

flewp (458359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578748)

Now maybe I'll consider installing XP, since it won't be so damned bloated, and I can choose what I want.

Still bloated (5, Informative)

TheVidiot (549995) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578791)

Oh, it's still bloated. IE, OE, Messenger, etcetera aren't uninstalled, most likely because XP still depends on their DLLs. It seems like you could accomplish nearly the same thing by deleting the relevant icons from the Start menu...

Re:Still bloated (2, Informative)

flewp (458359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578862)

Arrrgh, you're right. It appears that it just "hides" the middleware (IE, oe, etc) from the user.
Another note, one will not be able to use a version of XP with a stolen key to get the update, and since I refuse to pay for XP, I wouldn't be able to upgrade, so it's a moot point anyway. (Not sure how they'd know ALL the stolen/hacked keys, but I'm guessing they know of a few of the larger warez releases.)

Re:Finally (3, Funny)

coryboehne (244614) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578878)

Not to mention that it's build 2600 :)

On a serious note, I wonder why they did'nt do this a long time ago (read windows 95, or first anti-trust lawsuit) it seems that it would have saved them a great deal of headaches.

What about progress?! (1)

itomato (91092) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578923)

If they had, they wouldn't be where they are today.

do you want to pay for crap you do not want? (1)

Lewis Mettler, Esq. (553022) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578902)

Do you really want to pay for something you have said you do not want?

Under the States' remedy you would get a discount of $50 or more.

Finally...NOT (2)

pythorlh (236755) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578938)

Actually, the article says that it will be just as bloated as before, but you won't necessarily see it all. This is the smallest step MS could make in the right direction, but its not big enough. The ability to actually remove the various components, not just hide them, for both OEMs and consumers, that is what I'm waiting for.

Modular? (1)

MikeLRoy (246462) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578749)

As in, you can remove all of windows as one big module?

First Post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578753)

Alright!

Re:First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578937)

Dork!

Fear ??? (0, Troll)

C0vardeAn0nim0 (232451) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578754)

fear of law suits billy ?

in other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578756)

I saw some pigs just fly past my window...

Microsoft lied? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578758)

I thought they said this was unpossible!

Re:Microsoft lied? (1)

Palmguy (574518) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578844)

They said it!

They can't do that (0, Redundant)

mobets (101759) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578760)

But XP needs Internet Explorer! It won't work without it.

might morphen power windows (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578762)

I picture bill gates as the left leg of the giant cat robot thingy.

f1r5t p05t!!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578763)

1 0wnz j00!

Re:f1r5t p05t!!!! (-1)

Whistler's Mother (539004) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578785)

You don't own shit.. Die AC

Re:f1r5t p05t!!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578804)

congratulations on the first 10th post.

Slashdot requires you to wait 20 seconds between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.

It's been 13 seconds since you hit 'reply'!

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* Please choose 'formkeys' for the category!
Thank you.

And all this time... (0, Troll)

Black Aardvark House (541204) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578764)

Some of the more significant changes, such as those allowing consumers and PC makers to override Microsoft's default products, are a direct response to the continuing antitrust case against the Redmond, Wash.-based company.

...they swore they were doing nothing wrong.

This service pack almost sounds like an admission of guilt to me. Are they doing this out of goodwill...or fear?

first (0, Offtopic)

kalamashaka (231165) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578765)

wakilisha kenya

Now there's a shock..... (4, Funny)

8127972 (73495) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578766)

Windows is actually modular enough to allow people to add their own apps. I'm amazed!

The next thing Microsoft will tell me is that the sky is blue.

No, just the screen is blue ;-) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578809)

No, just the screen is blue ;-)

Re:No, just the screen is blue ;-) (-1)

Forsh (572618) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578887)

BSoD is old as shit...you must suck at configuring your computer, Dumbass.

And what else does it do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578767)

Piracy prevention, perhaps?

Linsux (-1)

Forsh (572618) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578769)

LINUX IS NOT A RELIGION. I just want all you zealots to know that. An OS is a tool.
Use whatever gets the job done.

Modularized Windows (1)

Changer2002 (577488) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578772)

Insert mandatory joke involving jackets and hell freezing over.

First Post. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578773)

First post.

tarting new threads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578774)

Please try to keep posts on topic.

ry to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.

XP makeover highlights antitrust tweaks (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578777)

Microsoft is finalizing a major makeover for Windows XP that's intended to make it easier for consumers to choose third-party software over Microsoft's own products.
Within the next few weeks, the software giant plans to begin testing Service Pack 1 for Windows XP, the first major update to the operating system, which was launched in October.

Some of the more significant changes, such as those allowing consumers and PC makers to override Microsoft's default products, are a direct response to the continuing antitrust case against the Redmond, Wash.-based company.

The service pack will ship this summer to PC makers and will be available as a free download from the company's Web site. As previously reported, the service pack will contain bug fixes, tweaks and compatibility updates, as have similar releases for previous versions of Windows.

Microsoft executives this week said that other new changes in Service Pack 1 will comply with a November settlement that Microsoft agreed upon with the Justice Department and nine states. Nine other states and the District of Columbia are continuing with the antitrust litigation. U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly, who is overseeing the remedy portion of the trial, has not yet approved the settlement.

Among the changes is a new control that will allow PC makers or consumers to replace Microsoft software with third-party applications from Microsoft's competitors, such as AOL Time Warner and RealNetworks.

Under the Justice Department settlement, Microsoft must allow consumers or PC makers to hide user access to five pieces of so-called middleware: Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger and Microsoft's version of the Java Virtual Machine.

Once the service pack is installed, a new icon will be visible on Windows XP's Program Menu, under "Windows Update" for setting program access and defaults. On new PCs, the icon will also be displayed on the Start Menu. The "Set Programs Access and Defaults" control also will appear as the fourth option under the Windows Control Panel.

Four options for altering Windows
The control offers four different choices for changing the Windows desktop and Start Menu: "Computer Manufacturer Configuration," "Microsoft Windows," "Non-Microsoft" and "Custom."

The first of the four options is designed to restore the middleware configuration back to the default setting chosen by the PC maker. It will have little impact on existing Windows XP users when upgrading. PC makers have the choice of installing Microsoft or third-party middleware, and they also have the option of hiding access to Microsoft middleware.

Several PC makers have already indicated that they would consider swapping out Microsoft middleware, such as Windows Media Player or Windows Messenger, for competing software. But many are still evaluating their options.

The "Microsoft Windows" setting allows access to all of the software giant's middleware and makes each piece of software the default option; none is hidden.

"But if the (PC maker) or the user has put anything else on the PC, that can register in the user interface," said Jim Cullinan, lead project manager for Windows XP. "We are not choosing to hide any other programs. If you have Netscape and Opera (browsers) on there, they will have icons on the desktop or the Start Menu--wherever they already are--but it will just make IE the default."

The "Non-Microsoft" software option allows users to choose middleware from competitors as their default choices.

"If you have five different browsers on the PC and four of them are non-Microsoft, those four will appear there and you will have a choice to pick the default," Cullinan said. But for the choices to appear, software developers must write programs "so that they can register here," he said. When no third-party middleware installed, Microsoft software would appear in the list.

The final option, "Custom," lists all the middleware installed in the five different categories. "You can check a default and hide or show every single one," Cullinan said. "This is basically where the consumer can go and configure their PC any way they want."

During the beta process, Microsoft plans to work with software developers to make sure their products can take advantage of the user interface changes, Cullinan said.

"We're telling software developers how to register for this (user interface)," Cullinan said. "Second, we're showing them how to be the default in every occasion. Third we're telling them how to adhere to the user's choice to hide their technology. We expect those companies to do one and two, but they're not required to do No. 3."

Some state trustbusters and Microsoft's chief rivals have complained that the changes being made to Windows XP do not go far enough to ensure a level playing field in the computer software market. Critics say Microsoft is hiding access to its programs, but the fundamental code is still installed on the PC. If the code is still there, developers could take advantage of it over other middleware, they charge. In the case of Microsoft's Internet Explorer, a U.S. Court of Appeals determined that Microsoft "commingled" code in this way for anticompetitive purposes.

Widespread test release
In an unusual move, Microsoft plans a widespread test release of the service pack. The company anticipates that more than 10,000 people will have access to this test release. Typically, only a few thousand people would test a service pack before its release.

"This certainly isn't what I would call the typical service pack," said Gartner analyst Michael Silver. "Microsoft is trying to pack a lot of things in there. Certainly the (Justice Department) settlement is a big part of it."

While the changes designed to comply with the Justice Department settlement are the most visible, Microsoft plans to include other new features for the service pack.

As part of its Trustworthy Computing initiative and a nearly two-month security analysis of Windows XP and Windows 2000 code, the software giant will include a number of security fixes in the service pack.

Microsoft also will do away with the pop-up box that urges users to sign up for .Net Passport, the company's online authentication service. During recent testimony in Microsoft's antitrust trial, critics charged that the company used the persistent reminders to sign up as a way to quickly build membership for Passport and to give it a competitive advantage over other similar authentication programs.

Microsoft also plans to offer as an option support for its forthcoming .Net Web services initiative.

"We are going to include .Net Framework as an optional component, so that a (PC maker) has the option to include it on their PCs," Cullinan said.

Microsoft released .Net Framework for download earlier this spring using XP's Windows Update feature. The software giant is adding it to the service pack "because we've heard from customers and developers who are now building applications for the .Net Framework as part of Visual Studio.Net," Cullinan said. "They wanted it sooner than later."

Biting the hand that pirates it
Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site.

"Basically we're freezing their computer where it is," Cullinan said. "We're not preventing them from using it, but obviously one of the benefits of having a license is keeping your PC updated."

As previously reported, Service Pack 1 also will include support for Mira wireless devices. PC makers also will get updates supporting Tablet PC software and Freestyle, a new XP interface for accessing the operating systems' digital media features using a remote control. These will not be available to consumers.

The update will broaden Windows hardware support in other areas. Microsoft released drivers supporting USB 2.0 for download in February. USB 2.0 support will be part of the update. Microsoft also plans on fixes based on the Windows XP error reporting tool, which allows users to submit a bug report following a crash. That has led to over 40 fixes for software and hardware. One update will fix a problem between an Nvidia graphics card driver and the Windows XP operating system that led to fatal crashes.

Microsoft also plans to introduce an update to Windows Messenger with the release of Service Pack 1. "In order for Windows Messenger to be hidden and removed, we had to make changes, and that's manifested in (version) 4.7," Cullinan said. "Also there have been some security issues (in Windows Messenger), and those will be addressed also."

In a related move, Microsoft is also simultaneously putting the finishing touches on Windows 2000 Service Pack 3, which is in final beta testing before release. That service pack is expected to be released ahead of the service pack for Windows XP, Cullinan said.

What the?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578778)

I thought this was impossible! Microsoft said so!!

First post! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578779)

Woohooo!!!

I'ss about time M$ windows becomes more modular

Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary? (0, Insightful)

Pave Low (566880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578780)

Saying "XP Service Pack Does the Impossible" is neither informative or helpful.

Why can't you use any space to actually tell what the story is?

Using tabloid headlines to take cheapshots is just sad and pathetic, really.

Re:Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary? (1)

rackhamh (217889) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578822)

Microsoft claimed that modular Windows was impossible. This has been reported on extensively.

Therefore, this service pack achieves the impossible. Makes sense to me .

Re:Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary? (2, Interesting)

Pave Low (566880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578870)

Does this Service Pack raise the dead? What about walking on water? Does it do cold fusion? Because all those things are "impossible" to achieve to. So without any context, the title is meaningless.

Re:Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578833)

Well this is all fine and dandy.....you know what this has done? This has allowed a new door for fucking RealOne to take over your system. You think Microsoft is bad, just wait till you have to go and CHANGE the settings everytime you install a new browser from some rogue company (ie any that hates MS). You think its bad now, just wait till every crap software company and their uncle will be forcing THEIR choice into the default settings. I can just imagine Kazaa plugging into everything as well as downloading an ad-ware worm onto your system. This just sucks. This is what "choice" gets you.

Re:Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary? (1)

Pave Low (566880) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578834)

to the mod who marked this as troll:
having an actual opinion that diverges from slashbot dogma is not a troll.

I was making an honest and on topic comment about this story.

Mod points are not for you to mark down opinions you don't like.

Re:Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary? (5, Informative)

darien (180561) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578884)

Well, I thought it was quite funny.

But, as several commentators have already pointed out, this isn't really modularising Windows at all - MS have been using the word "hide", which strongly suggests that all their stuff will be installed, it just won't have icons (rather like NetMeeting in XP).

So far so redundant.

But I was interested in the bit at the end of the article where it mentions "freezing" copies that have been activated with a known pirate key. I thought most pirate copies of XP were the corporate edition, that doesn't need activating, and should therefore be indistinguishable from legit copies? Or do they really mean the Product Key, which you enter when you install Windows? In which case, what's to stop you simply changing it in the registry - or, very worst case, simply finding a working Product Key on the net and reinstalling? Still far far easier and cheaper than going out and buying XP.

Re:Please Can you Stop the Headline as Commentary? (-1)

Forsh (572618) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578926)

They are slashdork lunsux zealots who refer to microsoft as M$, what do you expect? They have no respect, and dont really care what anyone thinks. As long as they are slobbing Torvalds dick things are ok at slashdot.

Uhhh..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578782)

What on Earth?

Is this the result of a court order, or is Microsoft actually trying to do something about their (bad) reputation as a psychotic monopolistic company?

In other news.... (1)

qurob (543434) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578783)


Ford's releasing a kit for its newest Taurus allows you to easily install a Toyota or other competitors engine or transmission!

Re:In other news.... (1)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578894)

Engine swaps used to be routine before computers took over cars. Go to your local dirt track and see what I mean :)

:slashdot redneck:

does this mean they are losing? (1)

fuqqer (545069) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578786)

Does it mean they're losing their case against State ATTY's General? I hope so.

djmax WHen will ie be open source like molizza (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578787)

Ms is evil They will never open source anything

Well at least I can run kde on osx!!!!!!!!!!

Now for office (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578788)

We all know they did it to please the courts but now if there was a modular version of office that allowed us to rip the windows part out of the bottem.

Excellent (1)

psycht (233176) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578792)

This is what I've been waiting for. I didn't install Win2k till the serivce packs came out. Now i can feel more comfortable with installing XP when the service pack comes out.

Makes it more modular? (2, Interesting)

RossyB (28685) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578795)

I'm sure a read a story this morning which said they were only 'hidden', not removed.

So, are the core IE executables/DLLs actually deleted from the disk? Or are the just disabled?

Re:Makes it more modular? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578906)

I don't think either happens. There was a funny bit in the story as told by AP:

"In a demonstration of its redesign for The Associated Press, Microsoft deleted all its Internet Explorer icons from one of the company's laptop computers, which preventing the Web browser from starting, then restored the icons later."

WOW! Either the MS guys are much better at BS than I thought, or the AP guys reporting in this tech issue are clueless. Possibly Both.

This isn't what they said was "impossible" (1)

jlower (174474) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578802)

They're allowing some of their apps to be hidden or made not the default, not removed completely.

Less is more... (2, Interesting)

Mattcelt (454751) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578803)

It amazes me how incredibly clever Microsoft is as they twist words. They go by the letter of the law, not the spirit, and we all suffer.

This is a very enlightening article, I think:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/254 23.html

I honestly wish I were clever enough to use their own tactics against them, but looking at how difficult the courts have made it, it seems impossible. How do we keep them from doing this to us over and over again?

Re:Windows debugger is, er, buggy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578915)

In an advisory issued yesterday, Microsoft admitted the authentication mechanism for the debugging facility is flawed in a way that allows unauthorised programs to gain access to the debugger. If they obtain access either directly to a console or through a terminal session, crackers might be able to run code of their choice. Microsoft suggests a few possibilities might include "deleting data, adding accounts with administrative access, or reconfiguring the system" (isn't all this built into XP anyway? - Ed). http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/25407.html MS preps all-new warez busting antitrust complying XP SP1. Isn't that clever? The OEMs ship Microsoft's middleware, which is then used by Microsoft to generate revenue opportunities for Microsoft. Microsoft does not pay them, because as all of this stuff is a part of the operating system, they have to pay Microsoft instead. But if they want to substitute alternative middleware, then here lies an opportunity for them to offset some of the cost of the MS Windows licence by demanding money from the suppliers of that middleware. We accept that they're obviously going to have to have a good reason for swapping out the MS middleware, and that this is likely to be money-related, but it's nice that Redmond is coming up with simple, direct ideas as to how this could work. Our friends in the Norse will be dead impressed, we feel sure. And one last thing readers who're no better than they should be should bear in mind about SP1. Microsoft is going to engineer it so that it won't work on a widely-warezed activation key, which as we recall escaped form a large friend of Microsoft beginning with D. It would appear that Microsoft does not intend application of SP1 to vape systems installed using that key, but simply to freeze them where they are, and to block their ability to use Windows Update. Microsoft has used service packs to disable installations it deemed pirated in the past, and we'd guess it's decided not to do this because it might hit legit systems by mistake, or generate adverse publicity from innocent victims. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25423.html

Re:Less is more... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578936)


How do we keep them from doing this to us over and over again?

Uhm... don't use their products?

Modular my *ss - Lets talk about Mira :-) (5, Informative)

gamorck (151734) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578806)

It sounds to me like the update is really just allowing Windows to be shipped with third party applications links on the desktop. I guess Microsofts packaging tools used to remove these links (which would suck no doubt) and part of SP1 will change that "functionality".

As for it making Windows more modular - thats a load of crap. I love how the editors and the submitters around here intentionally embelish just so they can get more pageviews and comments. Oh well I guess they suceeded today... :-)

Whats really going to rock in SP1 for XP is the new Mira technology stuff. If you dont know what that is - I suggest you cruise on over to http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/mira_preview. asp and take a long hard look at some of the cool shit MS is doing.

J

Re:Modular my *ss - Lets talk about Mira :-) (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578916)

Microsoft invents remote display over wireless ethernet. News at 11.

"allow consumers or PC makers to hide...IE" (1)

Jammer@CMH (117977) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578807)

This service pack complies [com.com] with the November settlement.

Quoting:

Among the changes is a new control that will allow PC makers or consumers to replace Microsoft software with third-party applications from Microsoft's competitors, such as AOL Time Warner and RealNetworks.

Under the Justice Department settlement, Microsoft must allow consumers or PC makers to hide user access to five pieces of so-called middleware: Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger and Microsoft's version of the Java Virtual Machine.

Fascinating.

assume? (1)

npietraniec (519210) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578808)


I assume this means Internet Explorer and possibly some other apps as well.


When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.

More info... (2, Informative)

flipflapflopflup (311459) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578811)

This [theregister.co.uk] Register article has some more info on exactly what is in the update.

It mentions are which components are replaceable:

IE,

Outlook Express,

Messenger,

Windows Media Player

JVM.

There will be 4 configuration options: (from the article)"You can have the Microsoft option, the original machine configuration (i.e. what the OEM decided it would ship you, but this is going to be most obviously applicable to new machines shipped by OEMs post-SP1 release), a non-Microsoft option that allows you to substitute non-Microsoft middleware, and custom configuration."

Who cares? MS will override your prefs anyway. (-1)

Subject Line Troll (581198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578941)

n/m

Hey!!! (1)

eyegor (148503) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578812)

Wait a minute... didn't the Micro$oft guys just testify under oath that this couldn't be done?

I'll bet they're holding lotteries in the Federal Pen right now to see who gets to be Bill Gate's boyfriend.

Re:Hey!!! (3, Funny)

donnacha (161610) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578846)


I'll bet they're holding lotteries in the Federal Pen right now to see who gets to be Bill Gate's boyfriend.

Kinda useful, then, the way he rocks back and forth.

Re:Hey!!! (1)

billybob (18401) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578917)

didn't the Micro$oft guys just testify under oath that this couldn't be done?

No. This is not going to remove IE or anything else made by MS from windows. It will just allow PC makers to change the defaults through a standard interface.

It isn't anything you can't do now. (5, Interesting)

the-banker (169258) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578813)

This SP does NOT make Windows more modular. It simply is a convenient interface to override default applications.

You can't uninstall IE or its libraries - they still will load on startup. What you can do is associate URLs to Moz or whatever.

This can all be done now, just not very conveniently for the average user. All the SP adds is a Control Panel applet to facilitate the association changing.

Marc

Re:It isn't anything you can't do now. (2, Interesting)

DarkDust (239124) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578881)

ACK... simply hiding IE and other things is not the same as removing them. Windoze XP does NOT get modular by tweaking some Registry entries about what program to use as default.

It's a very clever move by MS do release this SP as many people really will believe MS is moving in the right direction with this while they're in fact standing still.

I doubt we'll see any really modular Windows ever, and even if we do than surely not because of MS changing their mind but because they are forced by the DoJ... let's see how the trial turns out.

Re:It isn't anything you can't do now. (1)

David_Bloom (578245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578919)

I know that Microsoft is known for making programs that seem to have unneccesarily large filesizes, but I doubt that a 40MB patch - even from Microsoft - would only add a small Control Panel applet.

IE? I doubt it, but... (1)

David_Bloom (578245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578814)

I don't think it will actually allow you to remove IE, but, rather, make Windows more flexible in letting you choose your browser in more situations. Windows Help and stuff will still need to be rendered by IE, so components of it will probably always be a part of Windows. It is a step in the right direction, but, IMHO, it isn't as great as you might think it will be.

Microsoft are bad (-1)

Big Dogs Cock (539391) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578819)

I said Microsoft are bad. Mod me up.

What else lurks in the Service Pack? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578824)

Hmmmm? Media Player/Keystroke Logger? IE/ISeeU? THE DEVIL THE DEVIL THE WITCHES

beth i hear u callin....

Biting the hand that pirates it (3, Redundant)

donnacha (161610) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578826)


From the Cnet article [com.com] :

Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site.

"Basically we're freezing their computer where it is," Cullinan said. "We're not preventing them from using it, but obviously one of the benefits of having a license is keeping your PC updated."

Not that any /.ers would use pirated software, but interesting nonetheless

This has nothing to do about being modular (2, Interesting)

Bravid98 (171307) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578838)

This service pack will do nothing to make windows modular, it simply will allow the user to change the default program associated with a file extension simpler. It does not remove any MS software from Windows. The default program thing isn't anything spectacular, I'm more interested in the part that says that XP won't bug you until you sign up for passport. That right now has to be the biggest pain related to XP, the damn thing just won't go away!

Modular Windows - fakeware? (0)

Whatthehellever (93572) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578841)

ZDNet is reporting that SP1 will hide the icons, but not get rid of the apps. Is this true? Windows is still useless if it keeps all the bloatware apps loaded into memory.

Could this keep Mozilla OUT??? (5, Interesting)

dr_funk (7465) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578843)

According to this [theregister.co.uk] article, XP SP1 doesn't remove the apps, it just hides them. One of the FEATURES of the middleware hiding app is that other programs need to register themselves through a new API to be the default web browser or email client or media player etc... My question is will the API documentation have the same "Anti-OpenSource" clauses that MS has grown so fond of recently??? Would this prevent Mozilla from being the default browser??

And if you're using a warez copy of Win XP (2, Informative)

HeUnique (187) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578845)

You really don't want to upgrade, since the new SP1 will make your WinXP unusable, as MS knows about illegal keys (like the one which escaped from a company who are good friends of MS and their name starts with D) (thats according to the-register)...

Re:And if you're using a warez copy of Win XP (1)

GeckoX (259575) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578875)

Wrong, rtfa please.
If you had you'd see that it will NOT make these versions unuseable. Rather, you will just not be able to install the update at all.

Wrong. (2, Insightful)

billybob (18401) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578888)

"Basically we're freezing their computer where it is," Cullinan said. "We're not preventing them from using it, but obviously one of the benefits of having a license is keeping your PC updated."

You still be able to use your current pirated version just fine. The upgrade will not disable it from working. It's just that it won't let you upgrade.

Dont post FUD

Re:And if you're using a warez copy of Win XP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578943)

should have done this [kuro5hin.org]

forced sale remains in effect (2, Insightful)

Lewis Mettler, Esq. (553022) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578849)

Removing some icons or suggesting that consumers can select other software is deceptive at best.

The fake settlement still permits Microsoft to force the sale of Microsoft branded products and in fact continue to force their use.

Read the part of the fake settlement where it talks about the OS being able to trigger Microsoft branded middlewear should special file formats or data not be supported by alternative products. And, who do you think provides that data?

Besides, with CNet new policy on censorship (also discussed on my web site), they are not to be trusted anyway.

No more updates for pirates (1, Troll)

wik (10258) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578851)

Microsoft has made a horrible mistake in this update. It disables further updates/patches for users who run XP with pirated activation numbers. I think this is horribly irresponsible, because the people who pirate are probably never going to pay for the full product. As a result, not only will they suffer from not having security udpates, but the rest of the internet will suffer from their vulnerable machines when the next Code Red comes around.

Personally, I do not run unlicensed software, but the people I know who do pirate software are more than willing to run a vulnerable machine, rather than pay money to keep from being a public nuisance.

Re:No more updates for pirates (3, Insightful)

mblase (200735) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578909)

I think this is horribly irresponsible, because the people who pirate are probably never going to pay for the full product.

So, what, MS is morally obligated to give their software away for free to keep the Internet secure? Please. The problem with Code Red wasn't software pirates, it was (and is) ordinary users who either don't know enough to keep their bug patches up-to-date, or don't care. If pirates were the only reason viruses spread on the Internet, we wouldn't even have a problem.

MS preps all-new warez busting antitrust complying (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578854)

MS preps all-new warez busting antitrust complying XP SP1

Microsoft's 'Seattlement' Service Pack for Windows XP is to go into testing within the next few weeks, and will ship later this year. The company doesn't usually make a big marketing deal of Service Packs, but for legal compliance reasons WinXP SP1 is special, so it's been taking some journalists through what's in it, how it will work and how it will comply.

In order to meet the terms of the MS-DoJ antitrust settlement, Microsoft has to make it possible for PC manufacturers and users to be able to hide various pieces of middleware that are incorporated in XP. The dissenting states, as you're no doubt aware, have been pushing for more radical "rip 'em out" measures, but if the judge doesn't grant these and approves the MS-DoJ deal instead, XP SP1 is what you're going to get.

The software covered here is IE, Outlook Express, Messenger, Windows Media Player and Microsoft's Java Virtual Machine, and there will be four configuration options made available via a new control mechanism. You can have the Microsoft option, the original machine configuration (i.e. what the OEM decided it would ship you, but this is going to be most obviously applicable to new machines shipped by OEMs post-SP1 release), a non-Microsoft option that allows you to substitute non-Microsoft middleware, and custom configuration.

So far, so simple, but it gets interesting, if we pick a little at what Microsoft's Jim Cullinan has been telling people. Joe Wilcox from CNET, for example:

"If you have five different browsers on the PC and four of them are non-Microsoft, those four will appear there and you will have a choice to pick the default," Cullinan said. But software developers must write programs "so that they can register here" for the choices to appear. In the case where there is no third- party middleware installed, Microsoft software would appear in the list.

Unless we're gravely mistaken, this points to a characteristically Microsoft-ish implementation of the apparently simple task of shoving Microsoft software into the background somewhere and installing Navigator, Opera or Mozilla instead. "We're telling software developers how to register for this," Cullinan went on, so, in order to get themselves in on the grand middleware add/remove express, Microsoft's rivals are going to have to join what sounds rather like a Microsoft mini-developer program, participate in the SP1 beta and for all we know have the APIs related to the new control system disclosed to them. Does the new control system count as a new mini-UI, one wonders?

Gordon Bennett, as we say this side of the pond. And the apparent addition of some kind of new extra-special subset of and/or parallel structure to the add-remove system is just plain weird. For chrissake, you may wonder, why can't they just...? Or just...? We know we do.

It gets odder still, and more decidedly Microsoft-ish. The estimable Ted Bridis of AP has a nugget from Mr C that suggests a new tilting of the scales, as revenue-hungry PC manufacturers sit their oppressive bums on the one side.

"It also [writes Ted] could provide new revenue sources for hard-hit computer makers in a dour economy by encouraging software rivals to pay to distribute their own tools over Microsoft's wares." Cullinan explains: "These guys are going to pay OEMs (computer makers) to put it on there, and OEMs are going to take money or whatever it takes."

Isn't that clever? The OEMs ship Microsoft's middleware, which is then used by Microsoft to generate revenue opportunities for Microsoft. Microsoft does not pay them, because as all of this stuff is a part of the operating system, they have to pay Microsoft instead. But if they want to substitute alternative middleware, then here lies an opportunity for them to offset some of the cost of the MS Windows licence by demanding money from the suppliers of that middleware. We accept that they're obviously going to have to have a good reason for swapping out the MS middleware, and that this is likely to be money-related, but it's nice that Redmond is coming up with simple, direct ideas as to how this could work. Our friends in the Norse will be dead impressed, we feel sure.

Other highlights. SP1 will include USB 2.0 support, and Mira, Freestyle and Tablet PC support. It'll be about 40 megs, downloadable or for sale on CD for shipping costs, which will be sub-$10. It would, it occurs to us, make sense for the likes of Real, AOL and Sun to ship it, or at least the reconfiguration aspects of it, along with their own software, so we encourage them now to ask Microsoft if they can, and then tell us what the response is.

And one last thing readers who're no better than they should be should bear in mind about SP1. Microsoft is going to engineer it so that it won't work on a widely-warezed activation key, which as we recall escaped form a large friend of Microsoft beginning with D. It would appear that Microsoft does not intend application of SP1 to vape systems installed using that key, but simply to freeze them where they are, and to block their ability to use Windows Update. Microsoft has used service packs to disable installations it deemed pirated in the past, and we'd guess it's decided not to do this because it might hit legit systems by mistake, or generate adverse publicity from innocent victims.

Disabling Windows Update access does however up the ante, as it'll at least make it more difficult for readers who're no better than they should be to get hold of updates and patches. Long term it is also logical for Microsoft to try to make this impossible, not just difficult, so it's an area worth watching. And lastly, Microsoft is no doubt aware of considerably more compromised keys for XP than just the one, so we'd actually be surprised if it was just the D one that got nuked in SP1. You have been warned. (Well no, not you but this guy you know, OK?)

what's the big deal? (5, Informative)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578855)

All this does is HIDE the icons for internet explorer and outlook express and windows media player.

I can already do that. Tweak UI does it. And as for file associations, who here thinks that if you accidentally start up windows media player even after this service pack, that it will still redo all your file associations without asking...

This is not a plea of guilt on Microsoft's part, hell this supports their case, they aren't removing anything, they are just hiding it (since of course, windows would stop functioning if you removed it)...

The 3rd parties are still screwed (1)

sacremon (244448) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578857)

As mentioned in The Register article, 3rd party apps will appear as choices if they are coded so that they interface with XP to appear as choices. They will not automatically appear just because they are installed; it will require some registration with MS to have the app appear as a choice, perhaps even having to use some shared library from MS.

This is too funny (1)

zaqattack911 (532040) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578864)

I find it a little amusing that MS needs to hire a team of programmers to "HIDE" the MS middleware that'll be installed with Windows XP.

OOOoooo.. a fancy ass little control panel option to trash icons for IE MSN , and outlook. 700megs later, we have people with so much crap on the HD who are oblivious to whats installed.

Another thing... MS claims they have "locked" a WinXP installation to the hardware. If I get a new PC... does that mean I can't uninstall from my old PC, and reinstall on the other? or what if I swap a harddisk?
Someone please fill me in here.

--Me

Win2k SP3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578868)

Will M$ still release SP3 for Win2k, or are they going to do a WinNT 4 SP7 on us? If SP3 is released will it allow IE and WMP to be removed?

MS isn't really the problem.... (2)

mblase (200735) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578873)

I use Yahoo! Messenger all the time on my PC. I like it, I use it, it gives me handy access to my account there.

But it's annoying because YM uses IE as its HTML rendering engine. If I uninstalled IE completely, YM wouldn't work. HomeSite has (or at least, had) similar problems; it advertised "experimental" Gecko integration, but I never did get it to work. If I wanted to preview my pages without launching a browser, IE needs to be installed.

Other third-party apps do the same thing, because IE's engine is so easy for them to integrate. It's not my fault they rely entirely on MS's browser to make their application work, but there you are.

So we keep IE installed and just deal with the memory bloat. I don't use IE anymore except for browser testing, not since Mozilla became so friendly and I convinced Windows to make it the default browser for everything. (This took some time.) But it'd be nice if third-party apps didn't agree with MS that the browser is an "integrated" part of the OS.

Let's stop all the "now I can install XP" comments (2, Informative)

PanBanger (465405) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578874)

The article mentions that:

"Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site."

This means that the CD you have in your cube with XP written on it with a Sharpie will not take the service pack.

Other than the security issues this service pack claims to rectify, seems like issues that the average slashdot reader can solve his/herself. I mean, do we really need help making Netscape the default rather than I.E.?

Re:Let's stop all the "now I can install XP" comme (2, Flamebait)

mccalli (323026) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578922)

service pack claims to rectify...issues that the average slashdot reader can solve his/herself. I mean, do we really need help making Netscape the default rather than I.E.?

Yes.

You see, you might think that setting Netscape to launch when you click on a hyperlink or double-click an HTML file means you've set the default. What I call setting the default is having the OS itself decide that when an app has programmatically requested an HTML-rendering component, it gets that component from Netscape and not from IE.

No user intervention can achieve that right now. Not even by a Slashdotter.

Cheers,
Ian

What about Windows 2000? (2)

edgrale (216858) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578879)


What about Windows 2000 Service Pack 3? Will it allow me to choose to uninstall the software that was mentioned?

If the answer is no, then why is it not possible?
Clearly it _CAN_ be done.

So that's what they call it now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3578883)

I didn't know that breaking an OS into a million little peices was called 'modular' these days.

Just a ploy? (2)

interiot (50685) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578885)

Is this a ploy so they can say things like "Only 2% of the users actually removed IE"?

Other apps use IE within themselves using IE's API. Until there is a generalized API that will allow Netscape/Opera/etc. to work in the same places IE does now, such a feature is mostly useless.

I can imagine MS may want to shorten that statement down to "this feature is mostly useless".

Dang it........ (2)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578886)

the service pack willnot install on those Corprate versions that were floating around becasue MS locked out that Product ID key.

to bad for those that have it......

What about the EULA? (5, Interesting)

toupsie (88295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578889)

While this is a welcomed change for Microsoft to open up their operating system and play nice with third party companies, what has Microsoft done with the EULA for SP1? That is the real reason not to use XP -- not because it doesn't play nice with RealAudio. The XP EULA is affront to an individual's right to cpu privacy.

Now that Pirates cant upgrade to SP2... (2)

Zo0ok (209803) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578903)

...I wonder how many people currently running a pirated version of XP will reconsider and actually BUY XP to be able to apply the service pack.

My guess: probably fewer than those who will switch to a free OS ;)

The idea with those select versions of the OS is that no key should be required anywhere. Large organisations cannot call Microsoft every time the upgrade or reinstall a computer.

And for those who didnt read the article and runs a pirated version of XP: M$ says 90% of you wont be able to upgrade to SP1...

Register Article is More Interesting (5, Informative)

donnacha (161610) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578910)


Don't know why /. chose to use the Cnet story to highlight this subject, there's a more interesting article [theregus.com] over at The Reg [theregus.com] .

Modular? or new File Associations UI? (1)

simetra (155655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578912)

It sounds more like they made the file associations interface more end-user-friendly. I don't think it's ever been the case that any 3rd party apps were prohibited from running.

No more updates for me?? (0)

override11 (516715) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578913)


"People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site."
Can you say windowsupdate.kazaa.com ? :)


A tad worried (4, Insightful)

MarvinMouse (323641) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578920)

"The control offers four different choices for changing the Windows desktop and Start Menu: "Computer Manufacturer Configuration," "Microsoft Windows," "Non-Microsoft" and "Custom."

When I change my setting to Non-Microsoft, will microsoft know? If so, will I not get updates for certain things because I am "Non-Microsoft"? Why does the system need to know that the program is "Non-Microsoft"

(I am not trying to flamebait or troll, just stating my worries considering previous Microsoft practices.)

Uhhh... (2, Insightful)

blixel (158224) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578932)

From the article: Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site.

Any bets on how long it takes for a crack to appear for the Service Pack? Or new ISO's of Windows XP with the Service Pack already applied?

I can see it now.. (5, Funny)

MongooseCN (139203) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578939)

Please select the default browser you would like to use:
  • Netscape

Please press OK to continue.

This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. No changes will be saved.

Middleware (1)

Petronius (515525) | more than 12 years ago | (#3578947)

Under the Justice Department settlement, Microsoft must allow consumers or PC makers to hide user access to five pieces of so-called middleware: Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger and Microsoft's version of the Java Virtual Machine.

Why are they calling this middleware???
am I the only one to get irritated by this?
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