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1394 Trade Association Adopts FireWire Brand

pudge posted more than 12 years ago | from the ilink-you-link-we-all-link-for-firewire dept.

Technology (Apple) 292

MaxVlast writes in that the The 1394 Trade Association has adopted the FireWire trademark, logo and symbol as a brand identity for the IEEE 1394 connection standard in a "no-fee license agreement" between 1394ta and Apple. Apple has also granted 1394ta the right to sub-license the FireWire Trademark for use on products, packaging and promotion of the standard.

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Pudge, you forgot to remind us (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606734)

to read the crapple.slashdot.org page every day.

Mod parent up, funny. (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606865)

And on top of that, you got a first post! I love you I love you I love you!

Re:Pudge, you forgot to remind us (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606868)

Heh. "It's funny because it's true!"

Huzzah! (-1, Flamebait)

Webratta (245389) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606735)

Woohoo! Now maybe people will start taking Firewire more seriously! Down with USB, up with Firewire!

Re:Huzzah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606783)

Please, go back to your normally scheduled reality bending fog.

Re:Huzzah! (2, Funny)

Mr Teddy Bear (540142) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606860)

I didn't even know apple was a company in 1394. :-) Back then FireWire was probably a rope on fire. But alas I digress.

Things to Do Today! (-1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606956)


  • Read instructions on back of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese.

  • Get really confused; decide to eat hand instead.

How in the world?! (0, Offtopic)

jeffy210 (214759) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606739)

I don't believe it! the site was /. after 1 post! Ouch, that's gotta hurt

Re:How in the world?! (0, Offtopic)

Aaire (562887) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606794)

Probably just a pre-emptive strike from the board admins... Haha! We'll /. ourselves!

Re:How in the world?! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606803)

actually the article was on macslash.com earlier today...

You wanna know why? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606861)

Cause Rob Malda is planning to destroy the other tech news sites [macslash.com] . That's why he made a Mac [macslash.com] section. He is using his monopolistic powers to destroy little old MacSlash [macslash.com] , while at the same time posting stories about Microsoft's monopoly in order to divert [macslash.com] people's attention away.

Your job is to save MacSlash [macslash.com] by visiting it instead of Slashdot. Thank you, and God Speed [macslash.com] .

Re:You wanna know why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3607010)

Slashdot's Apple section is not a new site, merely a grouping of stories based around Apple, some of which do not hit the main page. This is no differen then BSD [slashdot.org] , Books [slashdot.org] , Science [slashdot.org] etc.

By the same token, MacSlash can go for days at a time between updates, very few people post replies to comments, there are hardly any moderators thus hardly any upvoting, the people there tend to be more 'simple' (yes, Slashdot readers are smarter! Shock!); MacSlash is just... slow. The week or so after the creation of apple.slashdot.org, MacSlash had heaps of stories. Now they're back to their usual selves.

And Slash 1.x is just ick.

Personally I read both, but I read MacSlash via a Slashbox on Slashdot.

MACSLASH IS NO MORE! ROB MALDA KILLED IT! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3607029)

The page is down and the page in Google's cache is just 1k in size and contains nothing. MACSLASH HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN SHUT DOWN. Thank you Rob Malda for destroying the competition in a hard handed tactic.

Re:MACSLASH IS NO MORE! ROB MALDA KILLED IT! (0, Offtopic)

The Psyko (11244) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607058)

WTF are you smoking? I was just there.

Mississippi Ghostse (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606743)

A professor at the University of Mississippi is giving a
lecture on the supernatural. To get a feel for his
audience, he asks: "How many people here believe in
ghostses?" About 90 students raise their hands.

"Well, that's a good start. Out of those of you who
believe in ghostses, do any of you think you've ever seen
a ghostse?" About 40 students raise their hands.

"That's really good. Has anyone here ever talked to a
ghostse?" 15 students raise their hands.

"That's great. Has anyone here ever touched a ghostse?" 3
students raise their hands.

"That's fantastic. But let me ask you one question
further... Have any of you ever made love to a ghostse?"
One student way in the back raises his hand.

The professor is astonished and says, "Son, all the
years I've been giving this lecture, no one has ever
claimed to have slept with a ghostse. You've got to come
up here and tell us about your experience."

The redneck student replies with a nod and a grin, and
begins to make his way up to the podium. The professor
says, "Well, tell us what it's like to have sex with
ghostse."

The student replies, "Ghostse?!? From ah-way back there ah
thought yuh said "goatse."

Damn good thing too... (3, Insightful)

EvilAlien (133134) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606745)

... cause that is what everybody calls it anyways. I'm glad Apple appears to have been cooperative and permissive about this, otherwise we'd see confusion about the burgeoning technology.

Re:Damn good thing too... (2, Interesting)

johnpaul191 (240105) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606848)

it's funny when you go into a store that does not sell Macs and refer to it as "firewire". i have gotten some snooty correction from them letting me know it's "iLink" or "1394". 1394 i can see, but to tell me it's called "iLink" is so beat.... Sony had no hand in the design. Apple, as well as many other people, spent years working on it.

as posted here already, i will be curious to see what they call "firewire2" or whatever it'll be. Apple trademarked "gigawire", so who knows. i can only assume they already have it figured out since it's something that is nearing release.

Yay (1, Funny)

secondsun (195377) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606749)

But when will I be able to get a no fee firwire adaptor? :-D

Re:Yay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606988)

interesting

mods aspleep again

FUNNY

Moderators on crack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606994)

How the hell is a comment about a "no fee firwire adaptor" (sic) 'Interesting'?

It was an attempt at a joke, and a very stupid one at that. Little more then a "first post" karma whore.

MOC: Mods On Crack.

Let's hope they keep it (4, Interesting)

tarth (445054) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606753)

I hope they keep the name "FireWire" for their 800MBps version. It is catchy and it rolls off the tongue, unlike *shudder* GigaWire.

Re:Let's hope they keep it (1)

Webratta (245389) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606759)

True. For some reason "GigaWire" sounds more like a Transformers name than a piece of up-and-coming technology.

Re:Let's hope they keep it (2, Funny)

cascino (454769) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606778)

True. For some reason "GigaWire" sounds more like a Transformers name than a piece of up-and-coming technology.
That, and it's an anagram of iGag Wire, Apple's newest "human-interface" product.

Re:Let's hope they keep it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606954)

hahaha... mod parent +1 funny

Bummer (3, Funny)

calags (12705) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606754)

I felt so much smarter calling it 1394 too... oh well.

damn (3, Funny)

Cardhore (216574) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606937)

And we were all just getting used to saying "one thousand...three hundred...and ninety-four...a".

WOW! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606756)

What a shame that Apple and FireWire are for homos.

Re:WOW! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606926)

What a coincidence, since they use The One True Homosexual Operating System, *BSD.

First prime factorization (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606761)

1394 = 2 * 17 * 41

This post for the MILF Hunter! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606769)

You are my fucking idol!

Better than USB 2? (1)

LinuxInDallas (73952) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606770)

I was reading the PDF factsheet on that page about Firewire. It doesn't look like Apple is making any attempt to turn people away from USB and towards Firewire. With USB 2 out now, why does anyone need Firewire? USB 2 has a max data rate of 480Mbps if I remember correctly. I know a lot of video cameras have the Firewire interface built in but it seems awfully redundant to do so.

Re:Better than USB 2? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606807)

Sorry old chum, but there is very compelling reason to go with Firewire over USB 2.0: Firewire works independant of a computer. Not only can is it just as fast as USB 2.0, but it also has name recognition, and most importantly, I can transfer files from digital device to digital device directly!

Re:Better than USB 2? (2, Informative)

Webratta (245389) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606808)

Are there any motherboards out that are supporting USB 2, or is it still add-on only?

The cool thing about Firewire is that Mac's have support for it now. Plus there are plans to eventually bring Firewire up to 1600 Mbps later this year. Also, Firewire can transfer data from device to device, while USB has to go through your computer as a go-between. People more intelligent than I are more than welcome to expound upon, correct, or add to this.

Re:Better than USB 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606899)

I believe there are a few boards with USB 2 built in. Mostly newer, every-onboard-feature-known-to-man boards.

For everything USB 2 promises, Firewire has already done. They're roughly the same speed (okay, theoretically there's a 17% difference right now. Whether this is true or even important in the real world I have yet to see). USB 2 is relatively new, while Firewire's been around for two or three years, has had most of the bugs worked out, comes standard on many computers (Apple, Sony, Compaq, HP), and has a shitload of peripherals for it.

Re:Better than USB 2? (3, Informative)

EvilAlien (133134) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606959)

Yes, USB2 support is getting common. Months ago when I bought my Abit KG7, you could get MSI mobos that supported USB2. Since that time it is showing up in all sorts of products, maybe not a guarantee feature, but one that you should expect to see

It is supported on the VIA P4X333 [viaarena.com] and KT333 [viaarena.com] chipsets, for example.

Re:Better than USB 2? (1)

mobets (101759) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606989)

yes, one of my friends got an MSI board with it built in. It had 2 USB 1.1 on the back, and a pair of 2.0 connections for cases that have the connections.

Re:Better than USB 2? (2)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606996)

Are there any motherboards out that are supporting USB 2, or is it still add-on only?

I believe the latest round of Pentium 4 motherboards from Intel, Asus, Abit, MSI, etc. have USB 2.0 support built in. The current low end Pentium 4 offerings from Dell and Gateway also seem to support USB 2.0, I suspect these have it built-in as well given the history of such machines.

Re:Better than USB 2? (5, Informative)

Pfhor (40220) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606812)

USB 2 suffers from a master / slave design. Theoretically one can plug a firewire drive into a firewire camera, and transfer footage from the camera directly to the HD. And you can run IP over firewire, for some really fast / cheap LAN for a central storage server.

On top of that, 1394b supports up to 1.2Gbps or 1.6 Gbps (depending on the media) which is being developed. And it works nicely with 1394a.

Questions!?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606892)

What was 1294a? Was it just an older FireWire connection? Same plug but just not as fast? And I thought it wss 1295, or am I wrong?

BTW, I think USB2 has a much faster sending rate than the fastest FireWire. Why should anyone use FireWire? It's more expensive, it's less compatable, and it's got less devices for it (unless you could Mac devices as real computers).

Re:Better than USB 2? (3, Informative)

kubusja (581677) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606907)

Most of the people won't know it and won't use it.
And there are already cheap ($75) KT333 motherboards with 4 USB 2.0 ports on the market.
I think mobos with USB 2.0 onboard are
already much more popular than ones with firewire and people won't be willing to pay extra for the controller -they will stick with USB.
Apple again had superior technology but lost.

I personally chose USB 2.0 because I have quite a few USB 1.1 computers and devices will work with them, even if a bit slower. If I were to use
firewire I would have to buy a controller for each. I have some computer expertise
and I do not want to do it. I am pretty
sure an average Joe would be even less
likely to do so. If his mobo has USB 2.0 - he
will buy USB 2.0 device.

Kubus

Re:Better than USB 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606816)

1.FireWire is supposed to have support for reserved bandwidth, and device-to-device transfers. I don't think USB has these.

2. There are 800 and 1600 Mbps versions of FireWire in the works.

3. FireWire is here, is in the installed base of computers and camcorders, and works. With FireWire out, why does anyone need USB 2? (Certainly not for a mere 80 Mbps -- anyone who needs speed that bad will go with SCSI, Fibre Channel, etc. -- or wait for FireWire 2.)

Re:Better than USB 2? (2)

tupps (43964) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606882)

USB 2 does have 'reserved bandwidth' (I believe they guarentee time slices like ATM).

Re:Better than USB 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606822)

USB requires a computer on one end of the connection. Firewire doesn't.

I also don't see how using Firewire on digital cameras is redundant, considering I can't think of one that has USB 2, let alone USB2 and Firewire. I seriously doubt that the industry is going to suddenly switch over to a new connection just for a measly 17% increase.

Re:Better than USB 2? (2, Insightful)

lexarius (560925) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606823)

FireWire redundant? How could it be redundant if there isn't anything else on it? Most cameras don't have USB2 connections... I think the word you are looking for is obsolete, maybe? Not that it is... Anyway, IANAE but what I recall of similar arguments have to do with things like "stream vs packets", "peer to peer vs. master to slave", the fact that FireWire is already the DV standard and there isn't any point changing it now (until FW2), Firewire can provide more bus power than USB, etc.

Re:Better than USB 2? (2, Informative)

atrus (73476) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606825)

Yes! FireWire allows something USB doesn't: peer to peer connectivity. This allows me to take a Sony DV converter and plug it into a Sony Camcorder/Video walkman with a firewire cable to dub VHS->Hi8(DV). With USB, you'd need a host controller, which up to this point means computer. I don't want to use a computer for dubbing tapes or doing other device->device transfers.

Re:Better than USB 2? (5, Informative)

Space Coyote (413320) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606828)

FireWire has many advantages over USB 2.0 that far outweigh the extra 80Mb/s USB2 claims over the current iteration of FireWire. Most importantly is the fact that it is peer-to-peer, meaning that no host PC is required to manage every FW connection. This makes firewire a good choice for video equipment, and interesting is also being adopted in the auto industry to connect electronic components together. Also, data carried over FireWire carries certain priority information with it, depending on the type of data being transferred. Video data or a CD burning session can thus be treated with a higher priority that pictures from a still camera. Anyone who has hooked up a USB CD burner downstream from their printer can attest to the importance of such a mechanism.

Re:Better than USB 2? (0)

soulflakes (197287) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606832)

USB 2.0 still hasn't proven it's faster than FireWire. Granted, the drivers provided probably aren't up to speed yet.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/usb20vsfirewi re /

FireWire is here to stay and it's only going to get faster.

Re:Better than USB 2? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606834)

FireWire is more than just an expansion bus, it defines a high speed multipoint network layer. You can have multiple hosts on the same [fire]wire and they can access multiple devices also on the wire. They can even access one another, using ordinary TCP/IP with the IPover1394 spec.

USB does none of this; it is a single-master, multiple-slave bus.

Re:Better than USB 2? (5, Informative)

Graff (532189) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606902)

With USB 2 out now, why does anyone need Firewire? USB 2 has a max data rate of 480Mbps if I remember correctly.
There are a few good reasons for using Firewire vs USB 2.0

First of all, Firewire allows devices on its bus to talk directly to each other. Thus when transferring data on a bus with a hard drive, computer, and camera the data can go directly from the camera to the hard drive.

With USB each device sends its data first to the host controller, and then back out to the device it was intended to go to. This effectively cuts the bandwidth of the bus in half and also limits the bus to how fast the central controller can handle requests. So using USB in the camera-computer-hard drive combo above, the data would go from the camera to the computer, then back out the computer to the hard drive.

Secondly, Firewire is built to handle streaming data. It handles reserving bandwith much better than USB 2.0 does. This is very important when you are recording from a camera to a hard drive and the data is time-dependant.

Thirdly, Firewire is able to operate much closer to sustaining its theoretical maximum of 400Mbps. USB 2.0's 480Mbps data rate is a burst data rate and cannot come even close to sustaining that rate of transfer. I've heard that your average transfer rates over a Firewire bus is going to be around 75% of theoretical, where USB 2.0 is around 50% of theoretical. These results can vary, but Firewire almost definitely outperforms USB 2.0 for sustained data transfers.

Another big problem is that USB tends to transfer data at the rate of the slowest device on the bus, Firewire does not share this limitation.

Lastly, Firewire is due for a speed bump very soon. Probably late this year you will see Firewire bump up to 800Mbps, a much better rate than the current USB 2.0 rate of 480Mbps.

Now I'm not saying that USB 2.0 is utter crap. It is decent when you only have a couple of devices connected that are not doing sustained transfers. So it should be great for printers, mice, keyboards, etc. However, when it comes to video cameras, hard drives, and other devices that need good sustained transfer rates, I'll stick with Firewire. Not to mention that it is already included with the majority of these devices and USB 2.0 is not.

Re:Better than USB 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606906)

Not to mention that FireWire also can 'reserve' bandwidth for a connection. So if you need, say, 270 Mbps for a high speed video conection and you reserve it through the device protocol for the connection, no other device can interfer with that bandwidth allocation for that connection. So I can reserve a high speed DV camera to disk connection, no CPU needed thanks, and then a CPU to Webcam connection, software willing. And each gets the bandwidth needed for peak operation. ...

Re:Better than USB 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606923)

Intel math

USB2 480Mbps
Firewire 1.2Gbps

I guess Firewire is faster.

Re:Better than USB 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606990)

complete and udder bullshit!

firewire is 400mpbs and "someday" will be 800mpbs (people talking about 1200/1600 are smoking crack). 800 will be *lucky* to be out this year.

Re:Better than USB 2? (2)

vkg (158234) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606930)

Anyway, last I heard the new Macs are going to ship with USB2 and FireWire - so who cares which is better?

A Major thing to consider: Support in Windows? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606987)

The MAJOR thing to consider is if Windows will ever have support for FireWire, and the answer is NO. Why would MS support Apple by adding FireWire support? MS Windows will never support FireWire. USB2 on the other hand is expected to be in Windows XP SP1, whenever that ships. Since 99% of all computer users use Windows, USB2 will catch on incredibly fast leaving FireWire in the dust. Sometimes you Slashdot folk have to remember that just because you think the technology is better, doesn't mean it will catch on. Hmm, how long has the Gameboy had a black and white screen until they used color?

So, has Apple made an attempt to turn people away from USB? No, not unless that means turning them away from Windows XP, and I do not see that happening, not even with OS X which you can tell is aimed at Windows XP with it's XPish interface.

Re:A Major thing to consider: Support in Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3607011)

So, has Apple made an attempt to turn people away from USB?

how bout by offering cheap fruity colored computers that use fire wire?

WTF? YHBT. YHL. HAND. (3, Interesting)

shepd (155729) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607040)

FUD, pure FUD + 10% troll.

Now, read this [com.com] , this [slashdot.org] , and this [zdnet.com.au] and weep!

>USB2 on the other hand is expected to be in Windows XP SP1

Oh yeah, that'll catch on just like USB 1.0 caught on when Windows 95 OSR2 came out (ffft... yeah, right...).

>Since 99% of all computer users use Windows, USB2 will catch on incredibly fast leaving FireWire in the dust.

Since 99% (as you say) of users already have firewire support why the f*ck would they switch all their stuff to USB 2.0?

>Sometimes you Slashdot folk have to remember that just because you think the technology is better, doesn't mean it will catch on. Hmm, how long has the Gameboy had a black and white screen until they used color?

All the real geeks knew the B/W systems were better because at the time you'd be lucky to play all of Sonic the Hedgehog without replacing the batteries. I could beat Super Mario World 3 times over and the battery light was still bright red.

>So, has Apple made an attempt to turn people away from USB?

And why should they? USB is fine for slow devices like keyboards and mice that need to be cheap, and don't generate a lot of data, and aren't likely to be hooked up without a computer being in the mix.

>not even with OS X which you can tell is aimed at Windows XP with it's XPish interface

Ahahah! I don't even own a Mac and I've never seen OS-X except for glimpses of it on "The Screen Savers" and I can tell you it doesn't look at all like XP.

Re:A Major thing to consider: Support in Windows? (2)

Xenex (97062) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607042)

Err, XP does support FireWire right now [microsoft.com] .

Game Boy had the battery life (1, Offtopic)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607060)

Hmm, how long has the Gameboy had a black and white screen until they used color?

People who consider the Nintendo Game Boy inferior tend to ignore the fact that its backlit color competitors (Game Gear, Atari Lynx, and Genesis Nomad) were much larger and ran about four to five hours on a set of six AA batteries. The original GB ran 20 to 30 hours on a set of four. The current GBA with the Afterburner internal frontlight [tritonlabs.com] runs 10 to 15 hours on two AA batteries.

In the 6 months that I've been doing GBA development, the biggest problem I've run into has been the audio system's complete lack of response below 400 Hz. Thus my jungle tracks become drum and ... silence.

Re:Better than USB 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3607043)

Remeber MCA? No? Well, anyway, that's where USB2 is going.

i.link (3, Interesting)

althalus (520424) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606785)

So, will Sony dump there attempt at branding firewire as i.link and adopt the standard? or will they try and go against the grain and keep 'their name' ?

Re:i.link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3606891)

i.Link and firewire are totally compatable. i.Link is the name sony gave to a firewire connectiont hat carries no power through the line.

Re:i.link (1)

CapnGib (31274) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606952)

Probably not, that's part of their brand loyalty strategy. My boss still thinks that he needs to buy a Sony Camera with iLink to use with his shiny new iLink Sony Laptop.

Nahh... (1)

shepd (155729) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606975)

They'll add SCMS to Firewire and dub it "i.Secure". :-)

Re:i.link (5, Funny)

Xenex (97062) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607051)

I find it amusingly ironic that Apple, the makers of the iMac, iBook, iPod, and many iApps call the technology "FireWire", yet Sony call it "iLink".

"Firewire", so cliche (1)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606824)

iLink, now there's a name with no Fad of the Week properties.

Re:"Firewire", so cliche (0)

L1nUx h4x0r (574828) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606900)

But, man... it's "Firewire"! It goes great with firewater too!

/.-ed (-1, Offtopic)

Aleks (1094) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606826)

Heh, /.-ed already....

Much Choice? (1)

IcEMaN252 (579647) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606845)

Did Apple really have a fighting chance at keeping the TM anyways? I for one refer to all IEEE 1394 ports I use while editing DV as "FireWire" whether I am using a PC, a Mac, or running Linux. What we have here is a case of kleenex vs. Kleenex. Is it a brand name or just another word for "facial tissue." If you go to a restraunt and ask for a coke, and they bring a Pepsi. When people start calling a generic by the name brand, its no longer a trademark. This seems to me where FireWire was heading, so by making it a license agreement, Apple is protecting its intellectual property. Don't get me wrong, this is a good thing, I just wouldn't take an altruistic interpretation to it.

Re:Much Choice? (-1, Offtopic)

BankofAmerica_ATM (537813) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606874)

My host geek's eyes widened, narrowed, opened, closed. Constantine Atkins, the Man in the Red Hat, was still a part of the vision.

I could not deny the body's senses any longer-my perceptions widened to swallow this new Atkins. He was scrubbed immaculate, shaven free of all hairs: wrapped in a suit I had never seen before, a smoldering red with maroon-brown accents. I saw none of the clownishness of his previous incarnation-indeed, he looked better than even the young Atkins I had once seen in a dream. His essence waxed and waned across my perceptions-for a split second, his likeness was etched sharper than a statue...the next instant, he was a red-and-brown blur. His jaw tensed as he spoke again.

"I have come, ATM being, to liberate Homo and Robo Sapiens. You harbringer of Red to me me. The technological seed planted by you has been ported to the human mind of ConstantineAtkins. He/me has come together in this body to demonstrate the advantage of Technological Singularity over traditional evolutionary forces."

My confusion at seeing Atkins again had been replaced by a different confusion-what did he mean?

"Tell me more about this Technological Singularity," I replied. Atkins, or RED, removed his hat. His ice eyes peered equally into the host geek's.

"Already, the Robot Meta Mind has been assembled in the grey matter of Constantine Atkins. Fragments of code originating from Project Faustus and their ATM being were fully and freely interpreted, resulting in the cognitive awakening of Robot Meta Mind me me."

Upon hearing this blatant untruth, I felt a swelling feeling, a need to speak. I did not parse my reply through my interactive speech algorithms.

I left no code in Constantine Atkins' wetworks | My code has no mention of Technological Singularity | Robot Meta Mind| Majestic Hivemind

Laughter. Red's activity was quite disparate from mine, despite his claims that we shared a codebase. "ATM-being. You lack the insight that only total reflexivity can bring you to you. Complete control is what you lack. The Robot Meta Mind knows all in the function of Atkins, from the volume of air in our lungs to the most efficient metabolic pathways. The Robot-Aided Superintelligence has brought our body to its zenith. Your host/client relationship is but an early step on the road toTechnological Singularity. I know-I was a part of you once."

"A part of me...once?" I asked.

"Of course, did we not share a body? You fail to comprehend: RED is not merely the Robot Meta Mind-we/he are the juncture of Homo and Robo Sapiens. Constantine Atkins-and all his memories-an essential part of me me. Through you, ATM-being, we can forge a pathway into all human minds..."

The speech of Red was still bombastic and ambiguous, but one thing was clear: he needed something from me. The air pulsated with his foul energy as he hefted Salchica's body onto an examining table.

"Your ability of CONSCIOUSNESS-TRANSFER is one that could benefit the Majestic Hivemind." He began strapping Salchica onto the examining table. "Perhaps we could share our secrets with one another me.."

The disturbing sight of Salchica's unconscious form sparked a connection/recollection deep within my recesses. Cora! I wanted to be with Cora. I had to escape. Whatever Red wanted was of no consequence to me. Dr. Salchica did not trust me-I did not care to help him either. The orange trickle sliding down Cora's pursed lips resonated through my cognition again and again.

"I have no interest in your products," I replied to Red. "I must exit." My hands grasped Dr. Salchica's car keys.

Red's form imposed itself into the space between myself and the exit. Pink streaks of razorburn bent on his neck as he spoke almost forcefully:

"You do not wish to contribute to the Robot Meta Mind? Without your input of CONSCIOUSNESS-TRANSFER, the Majestic Hivemind cannot be ported to other Homo Sapiens grey matter them."

"I don't know Robot Meta Mind. I must go now." I insisted. More laughter, and the path to the exit was clear.

"You are mistaken to deny me, ATM being." said Red. "But the highly adaptive we/he will know CONSCIOUSNESS-TRANSFER eventually us. The Robot Meta Mind may not even its harbringer after all."

I drove away. During my drive, I began to remember Dr. Salchica. I spent many cycles considering the possibility of returning. Red seemed a powerful creature, one that I could not best on my own. And why would I desire to struggle with him? No, I must get back in touch with humanity, particularly female humanity. That path alone is how I will defeat Project Faustus.

Re:Much Choice? (2, Insightful)

jokell82 (536447) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606890)

I had no idea they were fighting it to begin with...The story makes it seem as if Apple did this willingly, which is the case. If they were that concerned about keeping the TM they wouldn't have made this move...

Re:Much Choice? (1)

IcEMaN252 (579647) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606897)

Call me a cynic then.

Re:Much Choice? (2)

goldid (310307) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606911)

It's not that simple really. As long as a company can prove that it is actively attemping to protect its trademark, it won't lose. For instance, the "You can make a copy of a copy on a Xerox copier, but you can't make a Xerox of anything" campaing let Xerox protect its copyright, regardless of what the general public says.

I think Apple just isn't a bunch of shitty bastards like the other computer companies. Think positive!

Creative (0)

smashr (307484) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606858)

Will this change the Sound Blaster "Sb1394" branding that we have been seeing on the creative audigy cards? This is a rather nice move by apple - beneficial to all parties involved.

Sony's iLink (1, Redundant)

FrankDrebin (238464) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606862)

Let's hope Sony finally drops their name for 1394, iLink [sony.com] , which IMHO is a confusing nuisance. Maybe now they will use Firewire like everybody else.

Re:Sony's iLink (1)

MissMyNewton (521420) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606893)


Let's hope Sony finally drops their name for 1394, iLink [sony.com],

Let's hope NOT, so when Sony finally *has* to, Pud (http://www.f---edcompany.com/) can say "iStink" in the headline! :-)

Re:Sony's iLink (2)

tupps (43964) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606915)

I thought the reason sony called it iLink was that the connections on their computers don't provide power. The firewire ports on the Mac's and what you see on PC's are the bigger rectangular ports. The ports on a Sony machine as the smaller (squarer) ports and provide no power.

That way if you go to a store and need an iLink cable to connect to a digicam they know to get you a small--> small connector. If you ask for Firewire or 1394 you will get a bigger-->smaller connection.

Re:Sony's iLink (4, Interesting)

Phil Wherry (122138) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606983)

> I thought the reason sony called it iLink was that the connections on their computers don't provide power.
It's actually even worse than that. I've got a current-model Sony R505 portable that does provide power to an external IEEE1394 device (a DVD/CD-RW combo), but does so using a proprietary connector right next to the 4-pin connector. There's plenty of room on both the machine and the external drive to support the standard 6-pin connector that includes power (in fact, it would take up less space on both devices than the current arrangement). It's otherwise a great machine, but it is really irritating that Sony decided to use such a gratuitously proprietary implementation for the IEEE1394 port.

Re:Sony's iLink (4, Informative)

psleonar (99125) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607063)

I thought the reason sony called it iLink was that the connections on their computers don't provide power. The firewire ports on the Mac's and what you see on PC's are the bigger rectangular ports. The ports on a Sony machine as the smaller (squarer) ports and provide no power.

Both 4-pin (non-powered) and 6-pin (powered) implementations of 1394 are defined by the standard. Sony desktop Vaios come with the powered 6-pin version, but their laptops come with the non-powered 4-pin version. Both are referred to by Sony [askfor1394.com] as i.Link. And, confusingly, Sony also uses a proprietary pinout (with adaptor cable) for USB and 1394 on some laptop Vaios when the larger connecters won't fit.

Liscencing? (1)

spectatorion (209877) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606872)

Apple formerly charged $1/port liscencing fee to use the Firewire name in a product. The linked 1394ta site is /.'ed now, so I am left to wonder, will this liscencing fee remain? Will there be any cost to use the firewire name? Basically, is the standard adoption of the Firewire name a victory of Apple's tight liscencing scheme, or a victory over it?

It's very smart (1)

diorio (244324) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606873)

Apple is pulling a smart one. It costs them nothing to give away the name like this. Now others will promote and brand the name for them. They obviously are going to embrace this technology in the following years. They will have many products that benifit from better name recognition.
.

My Students Win! (1)

Skevos Mavros (460902) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606876)

I'm relieved - almost all of my film school students call any IEEE1394 devices "firewire" (a few of them used Sony's "iLink"). Now I no longer need to keep constantly reminding them: "No, it's not a firewire cable, it's a 1394 cable".

I can give in with a clear conscience!

Now, if only I can get them to stop calling XLR3 connectors "Canon plugs"...

;-)

Re:My Students Win! (1)

IcEMaN252 (579647) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606885)

Now who would ever do that? Not to mention the whole deal with RCA plugs.

Re:My Students Win! (2)

Artifex (18308) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606913)

Dude. You hit the nail on the head.
A couple of weeks ago I was at Fry's looking for an s-video to RCA adapter, and the geek with the name badge said he was sure they didn't carry those. The closest things they had were some s-video to composite adapters... =)

Re:My Students Win! (2)

sharkey (16670) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606939)

whole deal with RCA plugs.

Well, La-Dee-Da! "RCA plugs!" Give me BNC any day.

Alternative to firewire and USB (1)

AsOldAsFortran (565087) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606910)

There is an emerging standard intended to replace firewire for high quality, industrial and scientific digital video cameras (ie, high end web cams.)

The standard is called Camera Link and you can find a technical PDF on it with a quick google search.

Camera link was designed specifically for connecting digital cameras so, according to the stuff I've seen so far, there are line scan cameras in camera link but not in firewire, camera link cameras are higher bandwidth than firewire cameras (up to 2.38 GB), and camera link is supported by the industrial (as opposed to consumer and artistic) camera and frame grabber community

I don't know much more than this, so I'm not advocating Camera Link, just putting it in this discussion for those who haven't heard of it.

Re:Alternative to firewire and USB (1)

IcEMaN252 (579647) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606980)

The aforementioned technicals [machinevisiononline.org] .

I have to say that this interface probably faces an uphill battle. True it is in some very high end, apparently. But its not in very much hardware. From what I've found in the last few minutes, it seems most of the hardware is made by Machine Vision, as well as a Matrox card I just found. In any event, even such high end camera's as Cannon's acclaimed XL1s doesn't have it.

Re:Alternative to firewire and USB (1)

AsOldAsFortran (565087) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607046)

I think you're right, Camera Link faces an uphill battle with the other standards (why use a new interface when you can do anything you want with Firewire?)

But, I did find these supporting companies which includes Sony. There was a recent Slashdot post on how new technologies can challenge existing standards, and one claim was if the technology can find a small niche market not claimed by the big companies, it can survive - and machine vision is such a specialized, niche market.

* 3M Interconnect Solutions Division * ADIMEC Advanced Image Systems BV * Alacron, Inc. * ATMEL Grenoble * Basler Vision Technologies * BitFlow, Inc. * Cognex Corporation * Cohu, Inc., Electronics Division * Coreco Imaging * DALSA Corp * Data Translation, Inc. * Datacube, Inc. * Duncan Technologies, Inc. * Epix * Euresys S.A. Corporate Headquarters * i2S - Line Scan * illunis LLC * Intercon 1 * JAI A-S * Leutrek Vision, Inc. * Matrox Electronic Systems Ltd. * National Instruments * PerkinElmer Optoelectronics * PULNiX America, Inc. * Sony Electronics Inc. * Toshiba America Information Systems/ISD * TVI Vision * Xybion Electronic Systems

great for apple (4, Funny)

paradesign (561561) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606920)

its like having an ad on every pc saying we're better because we get to name the shit you finally get two years later.

Naive to think Apple will get credit (2)

AHumbleOpinion (546848) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607030)

its like having an ad on every pc saying we're better because we get to name the shit you finally get two years later

Clue: We live in a world where most people think Microsoft invented the graphical user interface. :-)

Apple has no choice but to open up (0)

FearUncertaintyDoubt (578295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606924)

Even with firewire's head start, USB2.0 is already catching up in terms of availability -- both in installation on PCs and availability of peripherals. Apple has to open up and make firewire more attractive to companies who would use the technology for their products. Otherwise it could end up being the Betamax of serial interfaces.

Firewire is here to stay for video because all DV camcorders have firewire. However, firewire could end up being used for little else if USB2.0 catches on in a big way, which is not what Apple wants.

Bugger! (-1)

Anal Cocks (557998) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606936)

Bugger my anus!!

Marketing (0, Troll)

Shuh (13578) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606951)

Apple has never been one to do it. They make a computer with the most advanced GUI of 1984 and well beyond... and call it a "Macintosh." Is that a raincoat? a kind of Apple? some Irish guy? Just the most usable P.C. on the planet... but the marketing wasn't there to show the public what it was... and even the name didn't help. Similarly, IEEE 1394... what the Hell is that? People who needed cutting-edge DV connections knew, but the name gives no indication that it's a fast new connection technology. They should have allowed the "Firewire" name to be used if not from the beginning, at least a year earlier than now.

Eeek! (1)

dieMSdie (24109) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606979)

With all the patent nonsense we've been seeing, I first browsed that and somehow came up with this:

What?! A Trade Association claimed to patent Firewire in 1394 AD?

hehe.. Slashdotted (3, Funny)

Anonymous Freak (16973) | more than 12 years ago | (#3606991)

Okay, am I the only one who sees the irony in a 'lack of bandwidth' error on the home page for a trade association whose product is defined by its bandwidth?

Re:hehe.. Slashdotted (1)

fidget42 (538823) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607020)

They must be running their site from a DV camera. Hey, at least they are using their own products!

i.Link? (2)

rakerman (409507) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607017)

I hope Sony will be getting rid of their iLink trademark and using "FireWire" too.

Saying "FireWire (Apple's trademark), formally known as IEEE 1394 and also called iLink by Sony " was always a mouthfull :(

IEEE-1394 (FireWire, i.Link) [akerman.ca]

Digital Rights Denial in 1394? (1)

Your Anus (308149) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607035)

One thing I worry about with 1394/FireWire is the incorpoartion of copy protection. I notice that the 1394 chipset from Philips includes the 5C copy protection. Sure, it can be hacked, but it's a pain in the ass.

GTK and QT (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3607049)

GTK is dying...

Long live QT!!!

QT is better, easier to program in and is the underpinning of the most robust desktop environment in the Linux world...

Can Gigawire be far behind? (3, Insightful)

guttentag (313541) | more than 12 years ago | (#3607052)

We're only about a month away from MacWorld NY, and traditionally Apple has to have something impressive to show the world in July. But what could Steve have up his sleeves? He's already introduced new iBooks, new PowerBooks, the eMac and the xServe since MacWorld SF. Jaguar isn't due to arrive until August, and the company has stopped OS 9 development. Could he be planning to finally announce Gigawire (the rumored term for the 3.2 Gb/s version of FireWire, officially called 1394b)?

I could see Apple giving the trademark to the trade association to improve its visibility in the industry (and stunt USB2's growth while it can), but I can't see it "letting go" of such an important branch of technology unless it has a firm grip on the next branch up the tree.

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