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RMS Condemns "UnitedLinux" per-seat License

CmdrTaco posted more than 12 years ago | from the its-not-unitedgnulinux-anyway dept.

GNU is Not Unix 749

dep writes "Likening the practice to Windows, Richard M. Stallman has issued a brief statement condemning the per-seat licensing that it appears will be employed in the "UnitedLinux" core distribution. He calls upon developers to refuse to allow their work to be used by such a distribution."

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749 comments

nah, that aint what pisses him off.... (4, Funny)

jeffy124 (453342) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616907)

he's actually pissed it's not called GNU/UnitedLinux

He's just pissed that WANKERS like you... (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616935)

How the FUCK would you know? did you ask him? NO
I didn't think so. you moron fucking slashbot.
You must be a korean, I hate koreans stinky, smelly, greedy koreans!

IShitOnThisPost!

Re:nah, that aint what pisses him off.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3616948)

Mod up this, couse its probely true

Re:nah, that aint what pisses him off.... (0, Troll)

TooTallFourThinking (206334) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617088)

And you know this because you are a close personal friend of RMS? ;)

Will you just leave RMS alone ?! (-1, Flamebait)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616991)



Where were you when RMS started his GNU operation back in MA ?

Where were you when Linux and all the open source community were / are threatened by MS ?

Critters like you always pick on RMS, but none of you ever done even 1% of the stuffs RMS has done for the community.

Shame on you !

Re:Will you just leave RMS alone ?! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617056)

nobody likes the title GNU/Linux, nor uses it, but RMS remains so unneccessarily fanatical about wanting people to call it "GNU/Linux" that it warrants mocking him and making fun of him. Sure he's good for the overall cause, but prepending "GNU/" to everything is just plain silly.

Nobody likes GNU / Linux ?! (5, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617123)



You said:

"nobody likes the title GNU/Linux, nor uses it"

Wait a minute here.

Do you ever use Linux before, or are you just one of those "parrots" that utter whatever others have said ?

Ever heard of Debian ?

Do you know that the Debian distribution calls their Linux "GNU/Linux" ?

It only goes to show how pathetic some of you can really be. None of you have done as much as RMS, and still you pick on that guy just because of the "GNU/Linux" thing.

Tell you something, sonny, nobody is perfect. Not RMS, nor Ghandi or George Washington.

Remember the famous quote :

"Judge not, lest thou be judged"

The way you ( and others like you ) judge RMS is EXACTLY the way others are judging you. The majority of the OSS people may disagree with RMS's stand on "GNU/Linux", but we DO respect what he has done, and we WILL NOT pick on that guy just for the fun of it.

If you are really somebody, show us your stuffs, and let the rest of us judge your worth.

Please stop picking on RMS.

Thank you !

Re:Will you just leave RMS alone ?! (2, Insightful)

TooTallFourThinking (206334) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617151)

He doesn't want to prepend it to everything. He understands the difference between the Linux kernel and the entire system, which he wants to be called GNU/Linux. And I don't mind the name GNU/Linux nor do some other people.

He's got his cause and he's fighting for it. Not that it in itself doesn't warrant mocking. But I still find it inspiring he is sticking to his guns.

shouldn't be judged one's accomplishments only... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617142)

People need to be judged by who they are as an individual. There are plenty of folks in the world who give simply to receive and I have a itch GNU's own RMS may be one of these freaks. DO you know the character type I mean? I've known plenty of altruistic assholes.

Re:Will you just leave RMS alone ?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617155)

People here confuse `freedom` with `ability to infringe (c)`, so they`re confused when someone stands up for true freedom.

Re:nah, that aint what pisses him off.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617008)

Damn - GNU sucks, just like people who love the 'icking license. Give me closed source any time - then you wouldn't get these lame discussions.

...and... (1)

saider (177166) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616914)

Its not GNU/United Linux

-1 Redundant (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3616921)

Re:-1 Redundant (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617089)

You're just burned YOU didn't get FP. Look at the timestamps on the two messages.

Re:...and... (0, Offtopic)

saider (177166) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617133)

That damned preview pane caused me to miss first post. Guess I won't be using *that* feature anymore [Grumbling as I journey down the road to sloppy posts].

second post (-1, Offtopic)

chrysalis (50680) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616916)

yah

In other news... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3616918)

RMS condemns God for not creating humans under the GPL.

Re:In other news... (-1)

negativekarmanow tm (518080) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617137)

LOL

Actually it's more like RMS condemns people for not calling it GNU/GOD

Put ya hands together! (-1)

News For Turds (580751) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616919)

Let's hear it for all da logged in trolls! CLIT! Woohoo!

Ok... Say it with me...

G to da mutha phukken oatse [goatse.cx]
C to da mutha phukken izzzzzzex
HellZ yeah, you know how it is bizznitch

[slashdot.org][slashdot.org]dumbass[slashdot . rg]

dumb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3616920)

If it's released under the GPL then you can't do anything to prevent them from including it, as long as they continue licensing it under GPL.

Early Widener (-1)

CmderTaco (533794) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616923)

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You cant make money... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3616928)

if you dont ask for it.

MAybe someone should knock him down from his ivory tower and let him work for a living, see how the world really works.

Refuse? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3616929)

If the code's been GPL'ed, how are developers going to stop UnitedLinux from using their code?

Re:Refuse? (5, Insightful)

mjh (57755) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617019)

If a violation of the GPL can be shown, then of course developers can stop UL from using their code. And a violation of the GPL would occur if UL is prohibiting re-release of GPL'd code, either in binary or source code form. IOW, if UL requires per-seat licensing on GPL'd code, that is effectively preventing re-release of GPL'd code, and would seem to be a violation of the GPL.

The only question is whether or not UL is violating the GPL. As far as I can tell, they're not, because the thing that requires per-seat licensing is their own code, not GPL'd code... but I haven't looked very hard. If they aren't violating the GPL, then there's no way that a developer can prevent UL from using their GPL'd code without violating the GPL themselves.

But I'm not a lawyer, and I don't really claim to fully understand all the implications of the GPL. This is just the way it seems to me.

$.02.

Re:Refuse? (2)

leandrod (17766) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617021)

> If the code's been GPL'ed, how are developers going to stop UnitedLinux from using their code?

Just by complaining that their software, which was released under the GNU GPL, can’t have its use restricted in any way except as prescribed by the GNU GPL. It’s that simple.

Who cares? (-1, Flamebait)

k98sven (324383) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616930)

Another RMS rant.. is this news?

He should quit bitching.
The GPL does not prohibit packaging GPL software with non-free software.

Re:Who cares? (3, Insightful)

XaXXon (202882) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616956)

The GPL does not prohibit packaging GPL software with non-free software.


What RMS is saying is that UnitedLinux cannot put per-seat (or any other kind) of restrictions on how GPL'd software is used; they can only restrict the non-GPL (and similar license) software. Not saying whether this is good or bad, but if open-source developers were to all use GPL (or compatible) licenses, that a per-seat licensed Linux system would be impossible. This would be a good thing in RMS's mind.

Re:Who cares? (2)

CynicTheHedgehog (261139) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617037)

The source is going to be made freely available. What you're seeing here is licensing for a user-friendly binary distribution. It's just a different licensing scheme--no different than RedHat's Update service and probably very similar to RedHat's corporate licensing schemes.

And don't forget, these companies will also be offering their own desktop distributions that will not be subject to this licensing scheme and will very likely continue to be in the form of downloadable ISOs or FTP installations.

Businesses demand quality and support, and providing that sort of assurance is not cheap. There's a fine line between between the idealogy of "Free" software and just being cheap, and I think RMS has crossed it.

You're God'Dammed Right! (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616972)

RMS should shut the fuck up and move to iceland with the rest of the idealist morons. Hug A Tree, Save a Whale, Suck my Dick!

ego anyone? (1, Insightful)

Tetravus (79831) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616943)

RMS is now actively trying to kill a derivative work that is being distributed under the GPL? The hubris is almost unbelievable. When you release your code under such an open license, you must assume that it will be used for some things that you don't approve of, and hopefully some things that you do approve of. That's just the way it goes...

Re:ego anyone? (5, Insightful)

XaXXon (202882) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616987)

no. no. no. RMS is *not* trying to kill a derivative work being distributed under the GPL. You can't put per-seat restrictions on GPL software. The 'problem', in RMS's eyes, is with the non-GPL software that is also being packaged in UnitedLinux. Those pieces CAN be licensed in a per-seat manner. RMS is saying that if everyone licensed their software under the GPL, then distributions wouldn't be able to have restrictive licenses like this.

Re:ego anyone? (0, Flamebait)

foobar104 (206452) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617055)

RMS is saying that if everyone licensed their software under the GPL, then distributions wouldn't be able to have restrictive licenses like this.

In other words, if everyone licensed their software under the GPL, nobody could make any money selling that software. The software economy would collapse, and hundreds of thousands of people in the US alone would be out of work.

RMS would, evidently, consider this to be a good thing.

Re:ego anyone? (5, Insightful)

ichimunki (194887) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617135)

This is obviously nonsense. First of all, most of the software that he's talking about here is already "free" in the sense of "no incremental cost" to the distribution to include it, much of it licensed using approaches like BSD-style licenses or simply released into the public domain. Those licenses do not prevent the software from being used in this way. If the software were GPLed, it would.

Second, what you say is entirely unproven. The software economy would not necessarily collapse. It might even get a lot better. We don't know yet because it hasn't been tried. Most of the people engaged in writing software for a living do not write software that ends up shrink-wrapped in a box on a retail shelf. Most developers write custom code for complex one-off applications that, even if the code were GPL, probably wouldn't be very useful except to the customer it was written for.

In fact, what we might see is a boom of software employment as companies took major packages and hired developers to add bits and pieces that they felt were valuable for their business. Of course, you're right. No one would make money selling software. They would make money writing it.

Some perspective [Re:ego anyone?] (0, Offtopic)

gnugnugnu (178215) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617148)

And if the MPAA and RIAA were not so overbearing and restrictive in their exploitation of the entertainemnt industry they would be forced to find a new source of revenue. A job is not for life, invalid business models (unlike social services) have no right to protection. You have to keep learning, training and adapting. Some businesses fail (Enron) it is harsh but that's life.

If it is the entertainment industry it is not something most slashdotters would seem to have a problem with but when applied to the Technology industry suddenly people can relate.

RMS cares about propping up what he sees as the invalid software as property business model as much as most slashdotters care about propping up the entertainment industry.

Re:ego anyone? (3, Insightful)

CrosseyedPainless (27978) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616998)

Actually, he's just urging developers to use the GPL. He's not trying to kill anything, or even discourage participation in it.

Surprisingly enough, it seems Slashdot screwed up when they said otherwise. Hard to believe.

Re:ego anyone? (5, Insightful)

EllF (205050) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617022)

RMS is not actively trying to "kill" anything, and he definately isn't tackling something being distributed "under the GPL". He is making a very intelligent point about the non-GPL'd distribution of binaries that UL intends:

"[United Linux] cannot restrict the GPL-covered programs in the system [with per-seat licensing], because that would violate the GNU GPL, but the system also contains non-copylefted programs which are points of vulnerability. Free software developers, please don't let them license YOUR program per seat. Use the GNU GPL!"

That isn't hubris, it's consistency with the same message that RMS has been putting out for as long as I can remember: "Restrictive licensing doesn't respect the non-side-constrained freedom of individuals to do as they see fit with software and source."

Hurray, it's fun to bash RMS, isn't it?

Well that settles it! (5, Funny)

Limburgher (523006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616947)

I guess I'll just have to stick to RedHat, TinyLinux and Lycoris.

Hang on, I was going to do that anyway. . .

Re:Well that settles it! (0, Offtopic)

Darth Yoshi (91228) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617105)

I guess I'll just have to stick to RedHat, TinyLinux and Lycoris.

Is it just me? Or does Lycoris sound like a mouthwash?

Read title carefully (5, Funny)

dmccarty (152630) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616955)

Woah, I read "RMS" and "condoms" and didn't want to read any more about that!

Re:Read title carefully (3, Funny)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616986)

Open Sores Condoms?

Ouch!

I hope... (2)

joestar (225875) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616957)

Mandrake can stay independant regarding United Linux. I know that they are a really open Linux distribution and I hope they can do another United Linux-like with smaller players, but a free and open one. This would create a major and killer alliance.

Stallman = -1, Troll (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3616958)

Oh yes! Hes nothing but a troll! Mod him down to -1 troll!

RMS objecting to the GPL? (0, Interesting)

abh (22332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616963)

IANAL, and I am not a GPL guru either, but how can RMS say that all software should be free, then at the same time, say that what he really means is free unless it is going to be used or distributed by someone he doesn't like?

I find it amusing that RMS and the other GPL zealots want unlimited freedom, unless of course such freedom would result in a choice or course of action that they might disagree with...

Aaron

How would they enforce the license? (1)

Jerry (6400) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616964)

Join the BSA?

FAT CHANCE.

UnitedLinux would not last a week if they follow this route.

Mandrake - stay pat. I'm moving from SuSE to you ASAP! (Look at my sig SuSE, if you think I am bluffing.)

Re:How would they enforce the license? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617047)

Hi, my name is SuSE, I am a linux distrobution, and a company. It gets very busy tyring to do both. I just read this persons signature, and it worries me. If he really wants to leave me then fine, but I hope that he and my friend Mandrake like each other.

Thankfully I've got lots of time to look on Slashdot for weak threats about leaving me for another. This loss of one of my friends shouldn't be too bad, not when other people will be paying me so that I'll be their friend.

Life is good,
keep on Truckin'

Your Friend,
SuSE

He's right... (5, Informative)

Pii (1955) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616967)

I have never commented on anything related to RMS before, but his point is hard to argue with here.

If Caldera and Company want to license support on a per seat basis, that's fine and dandy.

Licensing the software itself on a per seat basis is absurd. It's not their software to begin with.

Go RMS!

Go Away, Caldera!

Re:He's right... (5, Interesting)

motorsabbath (243336) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616996)

Yep - I've never jumped in on an RMS thread before either, but I hafta agree with him here. It's odd that they've banded together to increase market share, and are now flirting with the licensing concept that kept Caldera from getting any market share in the first place.

I hope RedHat and Mandrake and Slack and (insert you distro here) avoid this like the black plague. It's unfortunate, SuSE is a really nice distro. I hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot here.

JB

Re:He's right... (3, Informative)

andyr (78903) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617006)

All United Linux are saying, like Caldera did, is that the binaries will have per-seat licensing.

The source code would, naturally, be freely downloadable, if you want to roll your own.

Cheers, Andy!

Re:He's right... (5, Insightful)

mjh (57755) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617069)

But they can not restrict someone, who gets the source, from re-releasing binaries of the packages, as long as they also include the source. And if they release the binaries, they can not restrict the person who receives those binaries from re-releasing them. This is what the GPL guarantees. That if you get a copy of the code, either in source or binary form, you can give it away. Which means that per-seat licensing of binary GPL'd code is a violation of the GPL since it prevents the receiver of the code from re-releasing that code.

I don't know, but it seems to me that UL are saying that you can't re-release their own code, not the GPL'd code on the system. And if that's the case they're no problem. But if they're restricting the usage of GPL'd software (in either binary or source code form) then that's a violation of the GPL which provides that once you receive code you can give it away.

But, IANAL, so take my opinion as such.

Re:He's right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617042)

I've never commented on RMS before either, but he needs to go away.

If this model works, in that it 'validates' Linux for some (misguided) corporate-types, then it's a good thing.

Re:He's right... (1)

destiney (149922) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617094)


Since when do two wrongs make a right? The fact that Linux is simply better should resolve all validation issues, with misguided individulas or not.

I know three rights equals a left but that's about it...

Surely a step backwards (5, Insightful)

Sunkist (468741) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616978)


If United Linux thinks they can "unseat" RedHat by using a per seat license, they are dead wrong, regardless of what RMS thinks.

Good luck at your going-out-of-business sale, United Linux.

Typical great idea from RMS (-1, Flamebait)

pubjames (468013) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616979)


Yes, that's a great idea! Let's screw up an initiative for OSS companies co-operating together! Linux is the greatest OSS successes of all time. Let's fuck that up! Yes! Let's lock ourselves in little darks rooms and work on GNU/Hurd instead, purely for ideological rahter than practical reasons! Great thinking, RMS!

That man is an idiot sometimes.

He's just taking the wrong angle (1)

kwerle (39371) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616982)

I think they should go for it. More power to them!

'Course they'll go down in flames...

I am REALLY sick of the same old rant... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3616989)

I dunno about anyone else, But where I work, We make sorting software for manufacturing, and on these systems we run linux, and our software on top of it...
When we sell a system, we give em a cd of software and one of the kernel source (and a few other gnu utils we use) but basically we don't give them ANY source to our software...
We sell our software for 20k + as a base price... So now since that company has basically put much more of their software under the gpl compared to what we did, why is RMS going nuts on them compared to going nuts on the hundreds of houses like ours???
I REALLY am ashamed of all of the horrible press RMS puts on MANY newcomers to the open source buisness world. It really would be ok If they were in violation of some license or something, But since he is just complaining about the price? I think thats a little overboard... Then he is calling for "developers", yeah I am sure that if he called on me I would turn to my boss(who is also a good friend of mine) and say "you better give our software away for basically free, and give up any hope of return on the cost of developing these modifications :P" Oh i am sure that would go over well...
- ac

United Gentoo (5, Interesting)

jeffphil (461483) | more than 12 years ago | (#3616992)

From the (now /.'d) Linux and Main article: the companies will allow source to be downloaded, but not binaries.

Isn't that what the `emerge united-linux` command will be for?

I guess Gentoo Linux [gentoo.org] becomes more and more important everyday.

Re:United Gentoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617039)

Well, it would have to be called something else than 'united-linux', as it is trademarked. emerge gnutide-linux maybe ?

what they're doing (1)

Karma Star (549944) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617065)

is the right thing. pay for binaries, get source for free. isn't this what all the major linux vendors do anyhow?

this isn't a big deal. less affluent people will go to cheapbytes.com and purchase a 5 buck cd w/ linux on it, or download the binary from linuxiso.org...

Re:United Gentoo (1)

bpfinn (557273) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617134)

Isn't that what the `emerge united-linux` command will be for?

I think that's what the 'make' command is for.

Jeez... (1)

Indras (515472) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617003)

Even Apple's xServer [hsecomputer.de] has unlimited user license. I think UnitedLinux is going in the wrong direction to be competative.

Gee, what a suprise... (1)

dpaton.net (199423) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617009)

RMS bashing a liscence that isn't GNU/Linux.

yawn

I don't think he's totally wrong, but I'm suprised that the fact that he's against it was newsworthy.

I'll leave the discussion of the politics to the regulars. Meanwhile I'll go back to my OSX box and get some real work done.

-dave

Re:Gee, what a suprise... (1, Insightful)

Rashkae (59673) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617082)

In case it escaped your notice, Slashdot is more a discussion site than a news site. The question is, is it interesting / important enough to the Slashdot crowd to be discussion worthy. I think the number of comments posted by the end of the day will answer that question decisively. RMS is almost always disucussion worthy. :)

developer refusal. (5, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617010)

"...He calls upon developers to refuse to allow their work to be used by such a distribution."

I would refuse to allow my work to be included, but I licensed it under the GPL, so I can't.

Hey, RMS...STFU!!!!!!! (0, Troll)

knewman_1971 (549573) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617014)

Nothing burns my ass more than hypocrisy (ok, maybe a flame about 4 feet high, but I digress...)

"Software should be free". Unless, of course, you employ that free software, and make your own choices about how it generates revenue.

As a disclaimer, I won't be using UnitedLinux. I'm quite happy with my little purple dragon distro. And in point of fact, I happen to think that per-seat licensing is a bad idea for a distro.

But hey, I'm not the one putting it together, so, it's not my call...

i have to say that he's got a point... (1)

mattbland (260913) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617018)

I mean who are they to licence this software. It's not as if they wrote the majority of it anyway. If they want to provide a seperate add on package/ cd/ etc. that they licence fine, but attempting to control a linux distribution in this way is asking for trouble.

Sounds like they're taking business lessons from Monty Burns.

For my next trick they'll licence use of the Sun's ("Sol") radiation under a new "Pay lots of Money" licence. If anyone or anything wishes to use Solar radiation for any purpose they must pay for it :-p

UnitedLinux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617023)

A "UnitedUnix" already exists, it isn't plagued by distributions and it works better than linux... And it's really free, not bound to whatever license or constriction... BSDs...

What the? (1)

rdewalt (13105) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617025)

This looks almost as if the United Linux quorum is looking for a way to get businesses to pay for each copy of Linux installed, in a way that PHB's already understand. "Per Seat License" is not just a term used by windows.

My take on the article is that RMS is seeing this as Restricting Freedom. Perhaps he's right. Perhaps not. I personally feel he's a loony extremist, who sees the world as Pure Freedom or Total Slavery.

However, without more information, I can't tell if the "Per Seat" license covers the 'United Linux' material only, or which. United Linux -needs- to make money. And if a "$50 per seat" license is how they get it, who am I to say its a bad idea. This does not affect me, I don't run any derivative of Linux. (I'm one of those naughty BSD people. boo. hiss.)

I'm starting to percieve RMS as a nutjob right up there with Katz. I've no intention of using the GPL in any of my own works. There are plenty more Licenses out there. Well, that and my work is crap.

Re:What the? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617136)

I've no intention of using the GPL in any of my own works. There are plenty more Licenses out there. Well, that and my work is crap.

If your work is crap, license it under the GPL si it will feel at home.

Re:What the? (3, Interesting)

Ngwenya (147097) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617149)

My take on the article is that RMS is seeing this as Restricting Freedom. Perhaps he's right. Perhaps not. I personally feel he's a loony extremist, who sees the world as Pure Freedom or Total Slavery.

Well, having met him a couple of times, I'd say that he's an idealist and difficult to see eye to eye with. But a loony extremist? No - he's way too sussed for that. He's just someone who's been in the business for so long, he's seen way too many people got screwed over on this altar of intellectual property.

However, without more information, I can't tell if the "Per Seat" license covers the 'United Linux' material only, or which. United Linux -needs- to make money. And if a "$50 per seat" license is how they get it, who am I to say its a bad idea. This does not affect me, I don't run any derivative of Linux. (I'm one of those naughty BSD people. boo. hiss.)

Not naughty at all - there's room for everyone. From what I read about United Linux, there won't be a UL "distribution" - it's more like a compliance statement. That is, write an app and it gets certified for any UL compliant distro. So the per-seat stuff will continue to apply to Caldera, but not necessarily to SuSE, or TurboLinux, or whatever.

I've got to say that I too think the per-seat crap is doomed to die. It's exactly what so many IT departments buy into M$'s pool-based licensing system to avoid! They have to employ more expensive people just to chase down the licenses. Screw that.

Personally, I think the whole UL thing is a good idea - but I still see Red Hat dominant a year or two from now (if they can stay in business :-) )

--Ng

i don't think unitedlinux will see much success (1)

jms258 (569015) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617027)

from what i've read so far, it's going to be a source-only distribution. this makes it considerably more difficult for people to pick up this distribution and see if they like it. RMS is probably right in his assessment of this new licensing policy they have adopted. to me, it seems like suse, connectiva, caldera, and turbolinux are shooting themselves in their collective foot.

How dare they try to make money! (1)

reachinmark (536719) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617033)

I mean really.. just because they are a commercial entity.

And for everyone saying that it will fail just because they introduce per-seat licensing.. isn't it really going to depend on what else they offer to go with it? If per seat licensing gives them enough revenue to offer businesses features and services that no competitor can match.. surely *that* will dictate if they succeed or not.

RMS off base? (4, Insightful)

toupsie (88295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617034)

RMS is griping about a per seat license being charged by the UnitedLinux group. Ok, RMS griping is nothing new, but according to the GPL (as best as I can understand it) as long as the original source code is released with the binaries, UnitedLinux is free to charge a price for their distribution. I have never heard gripes about RedHat or Mandrake selling CDs from RMS. Why should selling binaries with access to the source code be a violation of the GPL? UnitedLinux is not limiting freedom as Microsoft does contrary to the (outrageous) claims of RMS.

What am I missing? Is UnitedLinux truly as evil as Microsoft for selling a standardized binary set with source code on the side? Or is RMS just tired of capitalism?

Binaries not distributable freely? (1)

Bas_Wijnen (523957) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617035)

From the GPL [fsf.org] : You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. In the article UnitedLinux is quoted saying the binaries are not freely distributable. Sounds like a license violation to me... By the way, both links are dead by now.

Uh, no... (5, Informative)

Otter (3800) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617038)

He calls upon developers to refuse to allow their work to be used by such a distribution.

No he doesn't. He calls on developers to use the GPL, so as not to offer distributors a target to make proprietary. Hell, it's only three sentences long -- I'll just quote it:

"'Licensing per seat' perverts the GNU+Linux system into something that respects your freedom as much as Windows," Stallman said. "They cannot restrict the GPL-covered programs in the system that way, because that would violate the GNU GPL, but the system also contains non-copylefted programs which are points of vulnerability. Free software developers, please don't let them license YOUR program per seat. Use the GNU GPL!"

Whether or not you agree with this (he seems to suffer from the Slashbot notion that developers who use a BSD license, for instance, are too stupid to realize they're allowing their code to be relicensed instead of grasping that the point is to offer code for use to whoever wants it), it's not as obviously unreasonable as what the writeup suggests.

cannot restrict the GPL-covered programs (0, Redundant)

DarkVein (5418) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617043)

RMS does not write anything about discouraging developers from allowing UnitedLinux to use their software. He can't. The GPL does not allow that sort of restriction.

UnitedLinux can license seating as they like as a means of revenue. RMS is vocal about his experiences with this sort of licensing and is discouraging users from supporting this endevour under its current licensing.

RMS is a bleeding heart but he fails to be hypocritic.

RMS' philosophy (0, Flamebait)

swagr (244747) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617044)

You're free to use it any way you want, so long as you're using it in a way I want.

Re:RMS' philosophy (2)

Rupert (28001) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617124)

I don't think RMS cares much about uses of software. A more accurate statement of the philosophy would be:

You're free to distribute it any way you want, so long as the people you distribute it to can redistribute it.

Linux and Seat Licenses Don't Mix (2, Interesting)

SirChive (229195) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617046)

The basic concept of Linux does not mix well with the concept of per seat licenses. Businesses often turn to Linux partly because they don't have to mess with licenses and license counts.

Hasn't Caldera been losing buckets of money since they switched to a per seat licensing scheme?

This whole concept of United Linux reeks of desperation. These four companies are going to collaborate on United Linux while continuing to put out their own distros? What a muddle.

Reading about United Linux has done nothing except make me decide to go check out Red Hat again.

UnitedLinux = A Threat To Stallman's Ego (1, Flamebait)

Bowie J. Poag (16898) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617048)



I think it's pretty obvious, the whole reason why RMS is throwing a pissy fit is because UnitedLinux represents a significant loss of control for Stallman. It puts even more distance between GNU and Linux, something he has been trying desparately to glue together in the past couple years. The whole bucket of "lets call Linux GNU/Linux from now on" crap is evidence of this. He thinks the train is leaving the station, so he's going to do everything within his power to get onboard it or slow it down -- That includesd running out infront of the train and laying down on the tracks.

Theres more than one way to "get on a train", unfortunately.

...*splat*...

Cheers,

huh? (4, Insightful)

dirk (87083) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617049)

Okay, so this "per-seat licensing" consists of them not offering the binaries for free download. The source will still be "freely available". You will have to pay to get the binaries, and I would assume once you have the binaries, you can freely get the source. Where exactly is the problem here. this is all abiding by the GPL exactly. Nowhere does it say you cannot sell your software, nor does it say you must give your binaries away for free. It says if someone gets the binaries, the source must be available to them (which in this case it will be). Where exactly is the problem here? Oh wait, it's RMS, so the problem must be someone might make money off of software, so he has to object.

Is there anything that RMS likes? (1)

Tribbles (218927) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617053)

Practically every story I've seen on /. has been "RMS doesn't like X", or "RMS condems Y", or "RMS speaks against Z".

Is there anything that he likes?

Re:Is there anything that RMS likes? (1, Flamebait)

Vodak (119225) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617108)

Yes he does. He likes Slashdot's own John Katz who is also a chronic bitcher.

Re:Is there anything that RMS likes? (2, Funny)

RoadWarriorX (522317) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617110)

I suppose he likes Free Software, right?
D'oh!

Not the standard definition of RMS.... (0, Offtopic)

purpledinoz (573045) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617062)

I thought this story was about Root Mean Squared mathematical function.

Can you people actually read?? (5, Insightful)

MullerMn (526350) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617068)

It's amazing how many people can't be bothered to read 3 paragraph article before spouting off a complete load of shit about it.

If you had read the article you would realise that Stallman, contrary to some of the fights he picks, is actually being quite reasonable here.

What he's saying is that he doesn't approve of the licence, and that authors should beware of licences other than the GPL because they may not protect their work from being kidnapped like this.

Also, it's worth pointing out that in this case Linux and Main went to Stallman for his opinion, he didn't get on a soap box and force it down anyone's throat.

--
Andy

It's just as well (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617073)

I have to say, over the past year, I've given every distribution of linux a try. I used to be a hardcore Slackware user and I still like slack, but I also will use redhat and mandrake depending on the situation. The 4 companies involved in this...let's just say I found multiple problems with their distribution. Caldera has already had problems and angered many of it's users, Suse...I had to get rid of it on my box as well as an attempt to put it on my girlfriend's mom's computer due to speed and errors, not to mention crashes and various other things I don't get from other distros.

What I'm saying is that the companies involved in this united linux are probably doing this as a "last ditch" effort. I say this because I've used each one of them and each one of them didn't work all that well which means if I have problems being a slackware user, I'm sure the less knowledgeable people do. No users = no income and thus drastic measures must be taken.

When this fails we might be a few distros less than we are now bringing us closer to a TRUE standard. What I don't understand though is why can't we actually HAVE a standard? What's so hard about it? As a linux user I'm annoyed at the fact that all of these distributions seem to think they are right. I hate to say this but 90% of the software each of them use they didn't write, so why does it matter what the directory structure is? PICK A @#$% STANDARD!!

In the news article (2)

OS24Ever (245667) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617077)

First, the Rant link is broken.

Second, in the news article link, I found this semi-amsuing:

"The focus of this is obviously on the business customer, because we feel that for Linux to be successful over all, we have to solve the business server issue first,"

Anyone aware of a business server issue? Last I knew we just put the distribution CD of choice in and it installs, not much of an issue on it. If we need stuff, download, compile, install and you're done.

I can read (1)

eTanstaafl (235155) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617083)

Licensing derivatives of the GPL that don't express and require the freedoms of the GPL are nothing more than schemes to harness and steal the creative fruits of the community by those who are only interested in personal profit. Selling support, books, training, consulting are all better ways to go than this. I have to agree with RMS.

Re:I can read (1)

MagusX (132779) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617118)

"require the freedoms"? Is forced freedom still really freedom?

Re:I can read (1)

eTanstaafl (235155) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617145)

Its a License, thats the intent. Every other forces a restriction and directs ownership.

Re:I can read (2)

RocketJeff (46275) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617150)

Obviously you can't read... They aren't 'licensing derivatives of the GPL that don't express and require the freedoms of the GPL'. They can't do that.

What they are doing is licensing the software they wrote under a per-seat license.

You can redistribute/use all of the GPL'd software in United Linux use want without paying a per-seat license, just not the 'propritary' pieces.

RMS = Socialism? (0, Troll)

capitilistpig (582585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617090)

I'm not well versed in the RMS saga, but it seems to me that the man is Socialist to the core. All software is to be owned by the people? I'm hearing echos of Lenin ( who was Communist, but one begats the other).

I can't believe what I'm seeing here.. (5, Informative)

XaXXon (202882) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617101)

I've posted a few replies, hoping that some people would catch on to what the article was actually saying, but these comments I'm reading are VERY disheartening.

We all know that RMS doesn't like non-Free software, where Free means you can modify it, you can use it for any purpose, and you can give original or modified copies to anyone else.

This new UnitedLinux distribution has a per-seat license. This license can only apply to non-GPL (or similar licenses) components. The people who buy UnitedLinux for their commercial needs can still take the GPL components and do whatever they want with them. The non-GPL components, however, cannot be redistributed. This is what RMS doesn't like.

What he's saying is that if everyone would distribute their software under the GPL, this type of (partially) non-free distribution wouldn't be possible.

He is in no way saying that he doesn't like the way his GPL software is being used. He is also not trying to stop other people from distributing GPL software. He's just saying what he's always said: that software should be Free and that non-Free software is bad. Since all the parts of UnitedLinux aren't Free, UnitedLinux is bad.

This isn't necessarily my opinion, I'm just trying to help get across what RMS is trying to say.

RMS #$#@'d in head head as usual ... (3, Funny)

zangdesign (462534) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617106)

If you read the article, they will be in complete compliance with the GPL - they won't make BINARIES available, but SOURCE CODE will be.

As for the proprietary software, something has to be done to ensure that they survive. Otherwise, there will be only two Linux companies, and eventually there will only be IBM.

Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a bad episode of Highlander when I observe the Linux crowd.

People may dislike Redhat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617113)

People may dislike Redhat, all the fanboy reaction to this has been go UnitedLinux, RedHat's in damage control mode.

RedHat however, has really played EXTREMLY fairly in this space. They DO license their stuff, even stuff they create under the GPL. They contribute enourmous amounts back to Linux. They don't play too many games with availability of ISO's of their distributions.

Bravo to Redhat for playing it clean, they've got my money for the forseeable future.

Couldn't see this one a mile away? (1)

essdodson (466448) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617120)

Common, I saw this a mile away. This is the same guy who says that freeware isn't good enough, and that the GNU project won't associate with those who publish freeware, etc... His philosophy is getting old.

Why do I get the feeling... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3617121)

...that RMS has a little timer program on his desktop that pops up every few days to remind him to start yet another pointless pissing match? Honestly, there are times when I read his latest rantings and am reminded of what Robin Williams' character said of a first-rate jerk in GOOD MORNING, VIET NAM, "That man's in more need of a blow job than any white man in history."

Errr.... (1)

00_NOP (559413) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617129)

So my plans for "United Hurd" had better gon the back burner...

now if it was UnitedBSD... (1)

mattbland (260913) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617132)

they'd have a chance. But linux is under the GPL I can't see how they'd have a chance of restricting it.

I can picture the courtroom in my mind already. All it would take is a single coder of a single piece of software included in the distribution to say that he doesn't agree and the case against whoever they were taking to court would be thrown out.

What the? A windows clone? (2, Redundant)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 12 years ago | (#3617143)

I've seen Linux people laugh at MS per-seat licensing, yet now that some stupid Linux distributions do the same. Ah it's not such a big deal, RMS is whining for nothing.

What's wrong with you people? If we wanted a Windows clone we would be using Windows, wouldn't we?

Where have the good old days of free Linux, freedom of expression and powerfull shells gone? Nowadays all we hear about is KDE/GNOME, Redhat/Caldera, etc. and their right to charge for Linux.

Enough is enough and its time for a change.

For once, I stand by RMS and by the GPL.
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