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KPNQwest Files for Bankruptcy

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the ride-the-light dept.

The Almighty Buck 189

ives writes "Today KPNQwest filed for bankruptcy. KPNQwest owns the most important fibre backbone in Europe. Apparently they are not planning on switching off their network, but without maintenance it will probably slowly degrade. The official press release can be found here."

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no backbone? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3618946)

Does that mean they're spineless?

bah-dum ching!

Katz sux balls (-1)

News For Turds (580751) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619111)

The Empire Stumbles
Posted by JonKatz on Tuesday May 28, @09:30AM
from the why-Star-Wars-got-unseated-by-the-kids dept.
We saw a cultural and generational coup d'etat this month, at least in cinematic terms -- if we were watching. Star Wars was challenged by millions of rebellious kids, who decided to choose a new kind of myth. The next generation unseated its elders -- as is the right of every generation - and is making its own culture, moving away from ours. In doing so, these kids balked at mega-hype, rediscovered earnestness, simplicity, the love story, some patriotism, punctured a billion-dollar balloon, and maybe even sparked a (relative) movement away from whorish sellouts, back to simpler story-telling. I, for one, sure hope so.

The evidence: In its first four days, Star Wars: Episode 2 -- Attack of the Clones sold nearly $117 million worth of tickets. When Spider-man opened two weeks earlier, it earned $115 million in just three days. Not only that, but the nerd-arachnoid drama earned another $48 million in box office during the weekend George Lucas' elephantine epic opened. And it shows no signs of slowing down. Spider-man is now on track to massacre Star Wars, perhaps out-earning it in the early days of the summer by as much as $100 million, if projected patterns continue. What happened? You can hardly call Clones a failure, but seeing it seems as much a reflex as a choice. And the grosses are below expectations, where as Spider-man is re-defining what a mega-hit movie is. I think Lucas and his movies have outgrown their audience, losing relevance to the young, the real avatars of culture, and are suffocating under their own enormous inertia and weight.

The late mythologist Joseph Campbell (who helped Lucas craft the Skywalker/Vader saga) wrote in The Elements of Myth that the hero-journey -- the often rebellious trek far from loved ones and home, finds a great teacher, battles evil forces in the world -- is inherent in every great myth, from cave-dweller's tales to Tolkien to Star Wars. It's certainly central to the story of Peter Parker, an unhappy and awkward kid who overnight goes from suffering at a nasty Queens high school to soaring over Manhattan's skyscrapers in search of the Green Goblin (this movie's Dark Side rep). In fact, every great myth has a lonely hero, a masked villain or two, and thinly-disguised spiritual choices between forces of good (God/a.k.a. The Force) or Evil (the literal Dark Side of the universe which shows up, Campbell wrote, in paintings that are thousands of years old.)

Why is Spider-Man's version surprisingly drubbing Lucas's, when he's cornered the global franchise on cinematic myth-marketing and he's one of the master cinematic marketers and hype-meisters of all time?

Several possible reasons. The Spider-Man saga is a simple love/adventure story, much like the first Star Wars, which didn't take itself nearly as seriously as the pompous sequels, pre-quels and tie-ins hatched at Lucas's secret ranch. In Spider-man, a nerd feels powerless, gets bitten by the bug, becomes powerful, goes on to confront great evil (and doesn't get the girl). Luke Skywalker, too, was powerless and trapped when we first met him. Then he met Obi-Wan, got in touch with the Force, went soaring around the universe to battle evil -- and didn't get the girl, either. Since the audience and industry expectations of Spider-Man were lower, the movie could afford to be looser, jokier -- more human. But poor George Lucas had dug himself a monstrous hole.

Simply because it's new (on film, at least) , Spider-Man arrives shrouded in less hype than Star Wars. When George Lucas decided to resuscitate his epic after a nearly generation-long respite, he could have chosen at least somewhat of a classier route and put some limits on the marketing that now engulfs big movies. Instead he acted like Jabba the Hutt, gorging on every dollar he could get. The producers of Lord Of The Rings curbed the marketing and toy tie-ins with corporations peddling food and dolls to kids out of respect for Tolkien. That makes Lucas, who showed no such restraint, all the more hypocritical and pretentious - polluting the series with trolls, Ewoks, aliens, soldiers, Jar-Jar Binks and his goofy patois, and all their inevitable action figures, light sabres, T-shirts and soda-cup representations.

Lucas created a brilliant film saga, then undercut it by demonstrating that there were few limits -- maybe no limits -- on what he would do to make still more money. The message to kids especially was follow the Force, but rake in the cash.

A franchise like Star Wars ought to be allowed to -- and can afford to -- retain some of its dignity and still make tens of millions. The movies make a fortune in their own right, a common experience that transcends reviews and tie-ins. When is enough enough? Lucas crossed the line, and cheapened his movies.

He also neglected to bone up on Campbell's books on the power and elements of myth. Spider-man is a simple love story about teen-aged angst: a kid almost anybody can relate to is suddenly transformed by a great power, grapples touchingly and hilariously to come to terms with that, and confronts a single bad guy and vanquishes him, though not without cost. Sound familiar? It ought to. That was more or less the feeling, despite the Imperial Death Star, of the original Star Wars. Spider-man was a cartoon myth -- part of the once-brilliant Marvel Comics factory, balm to nerds of the time -- and the movie doesn't forget its roots in the dialogue, plotting or action.

But what is Attack of the Clones about? The Skywalker genealogy? The Empire's evil origins? The birth of the Empire's Troopers? The rise and fall of the Queen of Naboo and her tormented lover and complex offspring? Trade unions and their relationship to the Galaxy? Legislative bodies and their place in galactic history? Lucas approaches the life and times of Darth Vader in much the same way biographer Robert Caro explores the life and times of ex-president LBJ (his latest book that's 1,300 pages long -- and that's just one volume of a projected four). Do we really care precisely how Anakin Skywalker got pissed off and turned to the Dark Side? Or would we -- especially the youngest among us -- be happy to see Yoda flashing his light-saber around and doing his Jackie Chan imitation?

Spider-Man is interesting on other levels, too. It's a very New York movie, set in working-class Queens and amidst the spires of Manhattan. It is unabashedly domestic and patriotic, even as Star Wars is pointedly other-worldly in tone and feel. Consider the Spider-man scene where New Yorkers cheer our hero from the Queensborough Bridge. It's heavy-handed but interesting. The movie ends with Spider-man draped around an American flag on a skyscraper not far from where the World Trade Center Towers used to stand. Holed up in his California cocoon, Lucas seemed to fall out of touch with post-9/11 America. He had too much genealogy to worry about. But the producers of Spider-Man, with a few last-minute adjustments, read it right. Star Wars was conceived in an era when Harrison Ford's Han Solo perfectly typified a generation's disenchantment with government and politics. Peter Parker has a different view, and so do the millions of kids making his movie a smash.

Attack Of The Clones is a cautionary tale, all right, but perhaps not the one Lucas intended. The real lesson is, if you're trying to make great movies aimed primarily at the young, avoid pomposity, self-indulgence and too much self-reference. Keep the story simple, clear and touching. Remember that movies mirror life. Films like this are about love, loss, conflict and fantasy. Spider-Man keeps that very much in mind. Attack Of The Clones seems to have forgotten it. That's why kids are flocking repeatedly to a new variety of myth, unseating the reigning one.

I'm not sure that's such a great plan (3, Interesting)

Clue4All (580842) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618949)

How are they going to pay for the lines or electricity that their network runs on, to say nothing of maintenance?

Re:I'm not sure that's such a great plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3618968)

My Linux desktop contains less than 3% GNU software.


Re:I'm not sure that's such a great plan (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619072)

thats great it means he is 97% hetero

Re:I'm not sure that's such a great plan (-1)

CLIT (581942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619277)

Big fucking deal.

My Windows desktop contains 0% GNU software.

Re:I'm not sure that's such a great plan (4, Funny)

L. VeGas (580015) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618985)

They have a really, really big UPS.

Re:I'm not sure that's such a great plan (4, Funny)

Luyseyal (3154) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619225)

Yeah, they found the instructions on slashdot.

Re:I'm not sure that's such a great plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619155)

Bankruptcy is the process that allows them to pay these essential vendors.

First Post!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3618951)

Dedicated to the BSD trolls!

US Buyout? (4, Interesting)

TibbonZero (571809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618959)

Perhaps some US company that is looking to expand it's presence overseas (Like AOL) might buy the backbone. Just a possiblity

Re:US Buyout? (1)

KinkyClown (574788) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618987)

I hope not...

Re:US Buyout? (3, Funny)

zangdesign (462534) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619214)

Yeah, but then we could say

"All your wireless-base belong to U.S."

OK, it was lame. Just don't throw any lutefisk.

Re:US Buyout? (2)

smcavoy (114157) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618989)

Don't they have laws protecting telecom stuff?
i.e. Europe's major backbone shouldn't be held by an american company...

Re:US Buyout? (2, Informative)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619257)

Why not?

A Euopean company just bought America's second largest beer brewing and distributing company?

In a Free Market, you should be able to buy whatever you want as long as you meet the terms the Regulators establish.

In a case of an American company buying a European backbone, they would have to meet the terms of both the EU and the US FCC and FTC.


Subject Line Troll (581198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619064)


Re:US Buyout? (2)

digitalunity (19107) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619071)

Didn't AOL/Time Warner just post the single biggest losing quarter in American corporate history? I doubt they have enough money even if they wanted to.

Re:US Buyout? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619078)

Didn't AOL/Time Warner just post the single biggest losing quarter in American corporate history? I doubt they have enough money even if they wanted to.

Nope, they took a goodwill write-off. They didn't actually lose any money, it was just over-inflated stock valuation.

Re:US Buyout? (2)

dark_panda (177006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619167)

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I seem to remember seeing some news stories on this, and one of the reasons they seemed to have lost so much was a change in some of the generally accepted accounting methods used. That's apparently why a lot of businesses are seeming to posting larger losses than you'd expect to see. According to the same news broadcasts, the anamoly should fix itself up within a quarter or two.

Of course, IANAAccountant, but I seem to remember seeing at least one or two stories on this, and I believe AOL was mentioned. FWIW.


Hacker might have hostile takeover :) (1)

TibbonZero (571809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619092)

Perhaps the Hackers over there will have a 'hostile takeover' of the backbone, not like anyone will really notice for a while....

BTW, when is it going to be an unmanned backbone? That's when the crazyness will start...

Re:US Buyout? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619097)

In fact, KPNQwest was set up by a Dutch and an American company. It is the American company Qwest that is now letting it pop.

Re:US Buyout? (1)

theNote (319197) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619118)

If the bankruptcy laws in Europe are like the ones in the US you probably won't see this happen.

To buy a bankrupt company, you must for all intents and puropses buy its debt.

You also won't see anyone be able to buy up the fiber at a bargain price, because the shareholders will want to get as much money out of it as possible. (Remember the @HOME fiasco?)

Re:US Buyout? (1, Informative)

ebmedia (527536) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619193)

From [] :
According to media reports the carriers AT&T, Cable & Wireless and the Spanish company Telefonica are interested in taking over the net. Allegedly, AT&T has already made an offer of 200 million US dollars.

Re:US Buyout? - full story here (2, Informative)

luna1ix (549450) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619232)

Heise's summary [] in english.

Re:US Buyout? (5, Insightful)

j7953 (457666) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619236)

The problem is, they're losing money on the backbone. According to several articles I've read, they're far from using its full capacity. That's why they ran out of money, after all. KPNQwest probably already did look for new investors, and obviously didn't find any. (Yes, it probably is cheaper to buy the network in a few weeks instead of investing now, but on the other hand in a few weeks the customers will already be operating via other providers, so the KPNQwest network will be even less profitable by then.)

Parts of the network may be valueable to companies that already have an infrastructure in Europe and are looking to expand certain parts of it, but I very much doubt that any company will buy the whole backbone.

How to Make Money (0, Flamebait)

ThOr101 (515492) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618962)

They should have done the American thing, and just spied on all of their customers, and then sold the personal information to the highest bidder.

Re:How to Make Money (2)

WolfWithoutAClause (162946) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618978)

They should have done the American thing, and just spied on all of their customers, and then sold the personal information to the highest bidder.

Perhaps that's why/how they're keeping the network up. ;-)

Re:How to Make Money (2)

Shade, The (252176) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619174)

Fortunately that's illegal in the EU. Mostly. A US company could still take the info and sell it to other US companies.

Some one will pick it up for them (1)

Pi Kapp 142 (582241) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618964)

There is too much moola to be lost if no one does.

Shit (4, Interesting)

KinkyClown (574788) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618966)

This is weird: I have to read this first on a foreign website! I am Dutch myself...

No maintenance? (4, Interesting)

sniepre (517796) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618969)

I have a strong suspicion, that lack of maintenance is not the primary danger that the network would face, but rather the fact that if anyone chooses to own the network up, or do some *experimental routing* that there is nothing that would be done about it!

Hacker paradise! :D

Who is next. (2, Interesting)

BagOBones (574735) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618970)

I keep hearing about all this unused fiber here in canada.. Wonder how much money is being lost on it.. I don't think any of the companies here will go under, most of the fiber is owned by large divers telacom /cable companies here..

Obvious answor (4, Funny)

Graspee_Leemoor (302316) | more than 12 years ago | (#3618976)

They should sell the network on ebay. I bid $1!


Re:Obvious answor (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3618995)

I bid $2

Re:Obvious answor (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619038)

After some consideration, I bid 3 dollars.

Re:Obvious answor (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619061)

For any bid of n dollars , I immediately bid n+1 dollars. winner is me!

Re:Obvious answor (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619213)

I bid n+1+ 3 Nikquatoo: a giant stone coin used by the ancient Intundi, a South Pacific islander tribe.

Re:Obvious answor (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619062)

I see youre $3 and i bid $4!

Re:Obvious answor (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619080)

Touche, I bid $5!

Re:Obvious answor (2)

JordanH (75307) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619114)

I bid 100 quatloos for the newcomers.

Re:Obvious answor (1)

grytpype (53367) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619276)

How much for your women? We want to buy them! How much for the little girl? Ah ha hah ha! [Sorry if that's not exactly right, but it's been awhile since I've seen that movie...]


Subject Line Troll (581198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619161)


It belongs to me ! (1)

Krapangor (533950) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619306)

$7 !
Well, that's really a bargain.

Re:Obvious answor (1)

jmt(tm) (197664) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619203)

According to some information [] at the german news service Heise [] , the operational costs for the ring are at about 1millionUSD per day.

You probably want to reconsider your bid?:-)

As mentioned in previous posts, Heise [] has in depth coverage of the story, mostly german, but there is always a (...) fish [] .

Re:Obvious answor (1)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619282)

He could buy it on eBay, get an assload of low interest credit cards, buy a bunch of shit at Corporate CC rates, file for Federal Bankruptcy protection, give the stuff he bought to friends and family, pay himself a million dollars, resign and let the creditors fight for the remains, and then get a job as a corprate restructuing CEO/CFO.

Sounds like time for a Government bailout to me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3618984)

So is the EU going to let the largest fibre backbone go belly up? Not... So, I'm thinking that the government(s) may end up nationalizing this (is it still called nationalizing if it's a pan-governmental entity?)

Re:Sounds like time for a Government bailout to me (1)

KinkyClown (574788) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619005)

I do not think that the Dutch government is going to take it over. The company has a dept that is extremely large. The gorvernment shouldn't intervene; we live in a democracy we do not have a communist party.

Who's next? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3618986)

VA Software?

backbones going bust (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3618993)

We need companies with thick spines to own the internet backbones - we don't want them to break!

More will come. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3618998)

The vast majority of ALL IT-related businesses has no substansial income and will follow them sooner or later (when the VC money is used up).

There are a lot of companies out there who seems to have mistaken venture capital money for wellfare.

Hmm, my DSL is still working... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619001)

yup, I'm able to post.

The new Dark Fiber problem.... (2)

vkg (158234) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619011)

ooops.... we went bust... sorry about your bandwidth.....

Now if only they would take Qwest with them!

Re:The new Dark Fiber problem.... (5, Funny)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619036)

If only you knew the power of the Dark Fiber...

Chris Mattern

Re:The new Dark Fiber problem.... (1)

coryboehne (244614) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619129)

The power of the dark comes from the same source as the power of the light.

Re:The new Dark Fiber problem.... (1)

rmadmin (532701) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619181)

Yes yes.. *BEGS* PLEASE OH PLEASE TAKE QWEST WITH THEM!!! I hate dealing with that company. Takes 3 months to get a T1 across town.... Takes 3 minutes for me to configure the router..... Thats just uhm... wrong?

dumbass question (4, Insightful)

JeanBaptiste (537955) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619012)

Is this in any way related to the evil phone company (errr... monopoly) here in America that is called Qwest?

Re:dumbass question (4, Informative)

buckeyeguy (525140) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619157)

Yes, Qwest is 47% owner of KPNQ. Probably won't have a noticeable effect on Q, as Q is having its own problems [] right now.

Re:dumbass question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619170)

qwest has 47% stake in KPNQwest

No shit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619021)

I thought digging down fiber for huge amount of money and wire it to every damn house and then almost not charge for it's use was good business!

Gosh, are there lots of clueless people in this tech-industry or what.

Wake up people, there are no "new economy", just the old one. If you have greater expenses than income you _will_ go out of business.

When did it _have_ maintenance? (2, Interesting)

mfago (514801) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619029)

"... without maintenance it will probably slowly degrade..."
From experience, KPNQuest has been slacking off for quite some time. Someone please just put them out of their misery and try to clean up the mess.

i think (2, Informative)

paradesign (561561) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619035)

in one last burst they should have the worlds largest lan party on it. largest as in it would be physically the size of the fibre network. if only for records sake.

Hrmm... (1)

hatter3bdev (533135) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619039)

I wonder when microsoft is going to jump in and "save the day" :-/

Re:Hrmm... (1)

coryboehne (244614) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619112)

There can be no doubt that it is possible they could do that, the money is'nt really a problem at all, the real question that applies to this is: does microsoft want a fiber line in europe? I'm not sure of the answer, and I would like to know.

oh... I wouldn't say that. (1)

MenTaLguY (5483) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619165)

Maybe you _don't_ want to know...

Not a big surprise (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619050)

Most companies that use linux go bankrupt, it's known as the 'open-source factor' as soon as a company switches to linux the staff of that company begin spending all their time having homosexual orgies in the bathroom. Within 5 years they are all dead from aids.

Not a surprise at all.

Re:Not a big surprise (1)

puckhead (241973) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619166)

the staff of that company begin spending all their time having homosexual orgies in the bathroom.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.


Subject Line Troll (581198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619195)


This post is for peace (-1)

cmdr_shithead (527909) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619052)

No More War!

Good afternoon (-1)

CmderTaco (533794) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619055)

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More coverage (5, Informative)

moonbender (547943) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619065)

There's an in-depth article available in English from the German [] newsticker. Read it here [] .
There's also a brief article on The Register [] available here [] .

Just thought I'd add a few tidbits since the news post doesn't actually link to any objective press coverage, company press releases are usually not the best way to inform oneself.


Subject Line Troll (581198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619180)


Sweet Techno (0)

imta11 (129979) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619066)

Their flash programs test your bandwith while playine some euro-tech. I get 200k.

Could be AT&T (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619077)

According to this report [] , AT&T is looking at them..

Logical / Idiocy (1)

coryboehne (244614) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619098)

Why is it that a company that can charge virtually anything they want to for their services (as they are THE provider) chooses to charge an insufficent amount, thereby ensuring bankruptcy? Idiocy? Surely!

Re:Logical / Idiocy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619119)

The purpose was to put the network infrastructure in place for Echelon 2

WHAT! (2)

clinko (232501) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619106)

But this internet thing will continue to balloon forever!!!

It'll make money like crazy!

That company didn't have a good marketing plan. See, my company is going to make money off of the internet with "web banners" because that's where the real money is!

What? noone looks at banners???

oh shit.

The most interesting thing I found ... (0, Offtopic)

jkujawa (56195) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619113)

... in that story is that there is a town in the Netherlands called Hoofddorp.


The fact that there is a town named Hoofddorp made my entire day. Hoofddorp. It's impossible to say without smiling. H00fdd0rp. It's a floor topping and a dessert polish! H00FDD0RP!

Re:The most interesting thing I found ... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619134)

You really should get out more often.

Re:The most interesting thing I found ... (1)

bigjocker (113512) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619261)

What really made my day was somebody named jkujawa ... :)

Re:The most interesting thing I found ... (1)

TheBrownShow (454945) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619283)

Thank you for pointing that out and making my day as well. HAH!

Too bad ./ can't buy it (1)

TibbonZero (571809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619116)

Too bad ./ and it's network can't buy it. That would be a pretty awesome thing for them to have. Somewhat useless if it wasn't really utilized, but cool.

Perhaps all the european ./er routed though there they could really pound sites when they are first posted about

They probably *will* switch off the network (4, Informative)

j7953 (457666) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619153)

Where did you get that quote from about them not planning to switch it off? Here's a quote from the press release:

The Company is working with its customers to facilitate the implementation of contingency plans, should the current situation result in instablility or a total shut-down of the KPNQwest EuroRings network.

Since this is from their own press release, of course they don't just write "we'll stop operating," but that's pretty much what the above quote says they're expecting to happen.

If you look for some more neutral information than their own press release, you might be interested in this heise online article [] (yes, it's an English article).

KPNQwest (KQIPQ) relationship to Qwest? (Q) (1)

gatekeep (122108) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619175)

Can anyone explain how the two companies are related? Which is a subsidiary of which?

Re:KPNQwest (KQIPQ) relationship to Qwest? (Q) (2)

buckeyeguy (525140) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619218)

Here, read up on it. []

In short, KPNQ was a joint venture between KPN and Qwest. Each of them owns a substantial minority share in the company. Don't know about KPN, but Qwest is a vastly bigger concern than KPNQ is.

Corporate bankruptcy in a nutshell (5, Informative)

schnell (163007) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619187)

Some people have posted asking about how they're going to pay for keeping their network up, but that most likely isn't an issue, since you don't have to be *out* of money to file for bankruptcy. What they're trying to do by declaring bankruptcy is buy some time to find additional buyers. I'm not sure whether the rules in the EU are the same, but here's how it works in the US:

In the US, the two most common bankruptcy options are to file under Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 of the US bankruptcy code. Chapter 7 filings are what you do when you realize you've irrevocably screwed the pooch, and there's just no way you are ever going to make it. Ch. 7 means you've cashed your check, game over - your assets will be liquidated (sold) to scrounge up whatever cash possible for the companies you owe money to. Everybody goes home, then the earth is sown with salt under your company headquarters.

Chapter 11, however - this is what I presume they're using the European equivalent of - means you think you can turn things around, but you can't do it just yet or you can't do it because your existing debts are too big. You can declare a Ch. 11 bankruptcy when you've still got lots of cash - that's to keep things up and running while you work out a plan to pay back your existing debts.

There's a good side and a bad side for companies filing Ch. 11 - the good side is you get to keep on going, and you don't have to pay back any debts you ran up before you filed! Most of the time, courts will rule that the companies that provide you with critical services (like power, fiber, leases, etc.) can't shut you off during your bankruptcy, even though you've just (potentially) stiffed them for zillions of dollars. This is likely what KPN is doing.

The down side is that you no longer control your company - the courts do. And they pay lots of attention to what your creditors (those folks you stiffed) ask for. Your job is to come up with a plan to pay those creditors back over time for a reasonable amount (anywhere from 10% to 80% of your orginal debt, most likely). If your creditors don't like the plan, or think that they'd get more money back by shutting you down and liquidating assets than allowing you to live and try to pay them back, they can get the courts to probably shut you down. Also, don't forget that your credit is now hosed.

So ... I wouldn't worry about KPN's lights going off anytime soon. They probably filed the EU equivalent of Ch. 11 while they had plenty of cash in the bank to keep it running while they look for someone to buy their assets (probably the only chance they have of satisfying their creditors).

Cost of Bandwidth? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619202)

Would someone be kind enough to explain to me why bandwidth costs so much? Is there someone making an unbelievable profit or is it really so expensive that my bandwidth should be capped and I should be charged per gigabyte downloaded?

letting it explode (4, Interesting)

LinuxGeek8 (184023) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619217)

It's just that KPN and Qwest do not want to invest much more money in KPNQwest.
So the plan might be to just let it explode, buy the remaining assets, and start a new company.

That's a likely scenario here in Holland.
It is what happened to DAF (trucks) and other companies.
They go broke, and in the same time they start a new company with the bought assets of the old one.
Your debts are cleared, and the tax accountants aren't wanting money from you anymore.

Still I expect it would cost money to buy the assets, so if they really do not want to invest anything in that network anymore, it makes my story just a wild guess.

It's logical (2)

Halo1 (136547) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619233)

They say in their press release:

The efforts to try and sell certain non-critical assets in order to secure sufficient cash proceeds to meet the ongoing obligations of the company have not been successful. This situation is not expected to change over the next 24 hours.

Now why would this be? Let's see:
  1. the The EU has just banned spam []
  2. Qwest is the biggest spam source [] on the net

Qwest simply saw its European spam hosting plans go down the drain and called it a day... Hey, maybe those spamsupporters were right after all about the guideline being bad for the economy and all *g*

Network going out at 16:30 UTC. (3, Interesting)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619234)

I've read on this [] finnish news site that KPNQwests network will be/was shut down at 17:30 BTC, and since they are currently in daylight savings time, that should mean 16:30 UTC. The article states that the source is at [] , however, I couldn't find the information in there right away.

In article, they also mention that the KPN's British offices will be/was shut down around midday. I'm not sure on whether this means today (Friday) or tomorrow (Saturday). Probably today, which meant that the network went down like four hours ago..

Re:Network going out at 16:30 UTC. (4, Informative)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619263)

Ah. I found the information. However, I cannot provide a direct link, because they use unique user ID's in the URL. You can find the article at by clicking the bit about KPNQwest right at the front page and then checking on the "related articles". Here are the most important bits pasted:

Europe's largest fibre optic network operator, KPNQwest, is set to shut down its entire operations at 17.30 (BST) today after the collapse of rescue talks with potential buyers and banks.

The source said that employees in the UK office have been informed they will not be receiving any redundancy packages and are currently being instructed on how to appeal to the government to reclaim what they are owed.

A second source close to the situation confirmed the details. At 11:55 (BST), the source told "Try ringing any phone in the office in five minutes and you won't get an answer."

However, the article later states that

A spokesman from KPNQwest denied the allegation. He said: "That (network shutdown) is not happening today. The holding company KPNQwest NV has filed for bankruptcy as have five subsidiaries in the Netherlands. A number of other divisions of the company including the UK have filed for protection from creditors.

So, I probably should have tried to find the source article a bit more vigorously before posting...

good riddance (2, Interesting)

dunkelfalke (91624) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619240)

kpnqwest provided the backbone to a quite big german hoster - strato. i can remember that strato had failures twice a week and they always blamed kpnqwest and kpnqwest said they will get better... they didn't really.

too bad for the employees, tho.

The Register says: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619248)

the RIAA as made an offer for the backbone. The article [] mentions that this is their power grab at the media dollars of the uk. There is also an anonymous source linking the deal to Microsoft.

... not only the fibre network is affected. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3619256)

Rumors are that maybe even the network will be shut down within the following days as it costs abour a million dollars per day to keep it running. But that's just a small part of the picture.

KPNQwest also operates a couple of data centres - and one of them is providing all technical facilities for hosting about a third of germany's web sites for Strato [] .

Strato is considering [] to either buy the affected data centre or to plan an alliance with Cisco, IBM, Microsoft and Cable&Wireless to provide new technical facilities for their hosting business.

Strato received quite some bad press when one of their storage units unexpectedly shut down last year and it took almost a week [] to have their websites up and running (breaking their 99% uptime guarantee) - so right now, competitors are ligning up to take their customers as it isn't clear if KPNQwest's network will be working over the weekend and what plans have been made to ensure the availability of the Strato-websites.

I don't understand it. (1)

PineGreen (446635) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619260)

Surely, a company that provides vital services for so many businesses has a lot of customers (by virtue of providing vital services to many businesses). So how can they go banckrupt?

Can't they just raise prices if they cannot operate at the current levels? If their services are vital, people will pay (or switch to another carrier, but this is another matter)

(ok, i don't understand economy very well, but could someone please explain it?)

Old news... (1)

Tauvix (97917) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619269)

I read this a week ago on The Register [] . And while it wasn't the actual filing of bankruptcy, it was certianly the beginning of the process.

Underground ... (1)

Jobe_br (27348) | more than 12 years ago | (#3619289)

How long is it going to take for an "underground" to form that taps into these fiber networks that are being abandoned by telecoms? Is there a precedent for this? Abandoned phone networks, abandoned power distribution grids? I understand that many of these backbones need very, very expensive equipment to "light 'em up," but it would seem that it would only be a matter of time before a sort of "private" 'Net was started using these abandoned fiber runs (both in Europe and in the US ... only 3% or so of American fiber is being used, right?)
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