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SuSE Denies UnitedLinux Per-Seat License Model

CmdrTaco posted more than 12 years ago | from the plot-thickens dept.

SuSE 193

m0RpHeus writes "According to Linux Today, SuSE is denying per seat licensing for United Linux. `We really don't plan any per-seat licensing for UnitedLinux,' said SuSE's US Director of Sales Holger Dyroff. UnitedLinux, it seems is divided on this issue."

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hmmm (0, Offtopic)

rickms (535706) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637693)

Am I the only scared one here? Already contradicting each other?

STOP A MOMENT YOU NIGGER TERRORIST! (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637703)

Caught you red handed you silly nigger terrorist!

Please don't blow up our buildings!

Re:hmmm (1)

robburt (139183) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637768)

I'm thinking that they've moved a little fast on this whole thing. Obviously they were trying to get to market quickly, but I'm thinking they should be a little more "United" before stepping into the press.

You DIRTY Tampon (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637798)

This post is '0wn3d' by TT and the CLIT
take your silly "UNITED" Negro ass elsewhere

I-Really-Am-John-Katz

Re:hmmm (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637977)

Why? As far as I understood it, they just agree to develop the core distribution together. Then every company will bring it out under its own name with a "Powered by UnitedLinux" sticker. Nobody ever said that they agreed on details like prices or whether they'ld do per-seat licensing for their individual distributions or not.

Re:hmmm (1)

AndyElf (23331) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638072)

...and Caldera will charge a per-seat.

I have question please (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3638034)

hello, welcome to me. what is the lunix and how i install it on my windows? there is croaetion lunix?

Re:hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3638111)

Why are all slashdot users against suse?

Doom... (2)

MaxVlast (103795) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637697)

This doesn't seem to be going very well. Is it me, or does any sort of combined Linux effort seem doomed to die on the rocks of licensing issues? When you have gangs of people obsessed with ephemeral issues, it's easy to get stuck on them forever.

Doom... and Death (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637725)

Face it linux is on its deathbed, it's only a matter of time till all the linux kernel developers go to work for Mac's OS:X and with all the political infighting going on I don't blame them.

Re:Doom... (-1)

perl_god (578135) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637726)

Is it me, or does any sort of combined Linux effort seem doomed to die on the rocks of licensing issues?

I think you are a little narrow in your perspective; the plain truth is that any business effort
which involves Open Source in any capacity is doomed to a lonely, painful demise.

IMHO.

Re:Doom... (4, Insightful)

robburt (139183) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637796)

This really reminds me of the "Green Day" special that I watched the other night. The band had it's roots in "Real" punk rock, with the street kids an whatnot coming to the Berkley shows (Gilman St), but as soon as they decided to bank on their talent (which was becming apparent), the community turned it's back on them.

I see a similar situation here, and I have to say that I really do feel for the decision makers in this area. I mean, everyone has come to see RedHat as "bad" b/c they decided to make a profit on "free" software. It's got to be tough to decide where to draw the line. Do you really want to alienate an entire user group?

Re:Doom... (1, Insightful)

Clue4All (580842) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637838)

I think you almost hit the nail on the head with this one. Four Linux companies that haven't done anything in a long time (Caldera, TurboLinux? Are they kidding??) are ganging up to try to take on RedHat, but the fact remains that they're still four dying companies. I'm really not sure what they're trying to accomplish with this initiative, but it looks like a last-ditch effort on the way out, which is really a shame because SuSE was almost sustaining a business and I had high hopes for it, even if I'm a Mandrake fan, myself.

not so sure (2)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638041)

Look at the contributors-- Caldera, Conectiva, Turbolinux, and SuSE. Of these contributors, Caldera seems to see per seat licensing currently as part of its revenue plan, while the other companies are ones that live off OEM contracts and consulting fees.

It is not at all surprising that Caldera would want per-seat licensing while the other ones would not. But look at it this way-- if UnitedLinux is to do well, it must be able to compete on the low and high ends and this means that per-seat licensing is a bad idea (but per-seat support contracts, OTOH, are a really good idea).

My suspicion is that per-seat licensing will not happen with United Linux, and that Caldera will either drop out, go out of business, or change their business model.

Other rumors/misunderstandings? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637706)

Can they also confirm/deny that there is, in fact, no giant corporation behind them (say providing global support services) that is trying to gain a significant foothold in the Linux world?

There's a word for poeple who think that everyone is out to get them: perceptive.

Hmmm (2, Redundant)

cdrudge (68377) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637709)

Seems that UnitedLinux is already divided.

Momma Said Make IT Wide! (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637749)

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Re:Hmmm Get serious (2, Interesting)

justsomebody (525308) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637849)

Divided, yes. LSB standard is not standard for Complete Linux distribution, it's more a set of needs to be LSB compliant >> gcc, kernel, xfree.
Have a lower layer defined and upper layer will get more uniform as it was. Every

Any company can extend LSB to its own potential, main thing is that basic layer defined by LSB stays the same.

Same as puting gnome in LSB, YES you can. Being LSB compatible means being LSB compatible.

Read LSB specs and then after that you'll see where you got it wrong. Also read pdf on UL site, you'll realize that they already inteded to make separated distributions. LSB does never defines per-seat licensing. Per-seat licensing is company choice. example Lindows

It should be useful for people to realise that united linux (all 4 companys) is just the first one to accept LSB standard. They don't define what LSB standard is. So instead of "United Linux compatible", "LSB v.X.x compatible" would be more preffered and acceptable.

Re:Hmmm (1)

jsse (254124) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637877)

Seems that UnitedLinux is already divided.

No, there'll be UnitedLinux-Caldera, UnitedLinux-Conectiva, UnitedLinux-SuSE, and UnitedLinux-TurboLinux; each with per-seat, per-processor, per-user, and free-as-in-beer-but-only-come-with-source license.

Miror (0, Funny)

Alan_Thicke (553655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637711)

Here is a mirror. [ulta.com]

Re:Miror (-1)

Burritos (535298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637732)

hello, how did you get rid of slashdot ads without getting rid of slashdot story icons?

i get it! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637716)

UnitedLinux is divided! HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH moo HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH hee-haw.

"Divided Linux" is a better name (0, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637717)

That didnt take long to happen... Though we all saw it coming..

Re:"Divided Linux" is a better name (1)

JordanH (75307) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637904)

Anyone could have predicted this. Think about it, had the UnitedLinux partners all insisted on per-seat licensing, then some new distro would pop up that takes the UnitedLinux base with no per-seat licensing.

I guess I'm a little surprised that it happened so fast. My guess is that SuSE was never really on board with the per-seat charge in the first place.

Hello the Linux (-1)

Burritos (535298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637718)

Hello I'd like to learn more about the "Linux"

I heard you can say 'grep' and 'crontab' or something?

How to use it for free... (3, Funny)

alapalaya (561911) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637720)

per-seat licensing

Don't sit down while using it, remove the seats from the pc room, and you're done! :)


No Choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637745)

They have no choice but to unite. This is what must happen in hard times. It will happen.

Re:No Choice (1)

alapalaya (561911) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637850)

They have no choice but to unite. This is what must happen in hard drives. It will happen.

If you change you post in this way it's perfect for the article about the IBM & Hitachi.... :)

Re:How to use it for free... (4, Funny)

Bios_Hakr (68586) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637892)

Even better, replace the seats with chairs...Nice comfy ones.

Re:How to use it for free... (1)

TonyZahn (534930) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638063)

Unfortunately, you can't remove the seats from the techies, and knowing the physiche (sp?) of the average Slashdotter, there's going to be some big licenses...

That's too bad (2)

Burgundy Advocate (313960) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637727)

I'm serious.

SuSE, with UnitedLinux, had an innovative idea for selling Linux. They are within their legal bounds, and I see nothing wrong with a company taking full advantage of the GPL.

I guess this is just one more Linux company that's headed for the scrap heap. If they could have gained some respectability among business (which seemed to be their plan) they might have been able to earn money and succeed.

And really, who better than SuSE to lead the next wave of the revolution? Ah well... *sigh*

Re:That's too bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637968)

They are within their legal bounds

No one is claiming Caldera is violating their legal rights with the per-seat/no source thing. The complaint has nothing to do with legality, the complaint is that they are treating their customers poorly, and this is a bad decision from a customer service and relations standpoint.

SUSE has already *gained* respectability among businesses. If you remember, yesterday there was an article on slashdot explaining how SUSE (through IBM) had gotten a massive contract to run linux on all the german government's webservers.

In my opinion, instituting painful, irritating license terms that make it more of a hassle and more expensive for businesses to use your product is *not* a way to gain "respectability" among businesses. In my opinion, unless you're Microsoft (in which case people will put up with anything you do), per-seat licensing is a good way to gain a reputation among businesses as a spoiled child. It also does not seem that denying your customers the right to download and make free copies of your binaries when your competitors (*who offer a near identical product*) do, is not a good way to appear "respectable" or appealing to businesses.

There is no way that the caldera/unitedlinux freaky licensing terms are in any way a sane business decision.

-- super ugly ultraman

Damn... (2)

ImaLamer (260199) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637731)

So many jokes to make and I can't seem to think of a great one.

So make your own...

UnitedLinux ______divided_______________!

Re:Damn... (-1)

Burritos (535298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637751)

I hate oral sex.

Re:Damn... (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637763)

Thats because you're working with the wrong end!

Re:Damn... (-1)

Burritos (535298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637783)

Sir, do you have a penis flower?

Re:Damn... (1)

grahamlee (522375) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637765)

It seems that Sham 69 (famous sarf Lahndan punk band) were wrong when they said "If the distros are United / They will never be divided".
Also, it seems strange that SuSE want in on a UnitedLinux project...it means removing rc.config

Re:Damn... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637824)

Who the heck is Sham 69? Lahndan punk? No wonder United Linux is in trouble... it's the Geek Reality Distortion Field. You know, the same one that makes you think a socialist like Ralph Nader would give you MORE freedom.

Re:Damn... (1)

jdavidb (449077) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638052)

the Geek Reality Distortion Field. You know, the same one that makes you think a socialist like Ralph Nader would give you MORE freedom.

A quote like that makes me wish you'd posted as yourself so I could add you to my friends list.

Re:Damn... (1, Funny)

HiQ (159108) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637810)


cat unitedlinux > /div/null

Re:Damn... (1)

caca_phony (465655) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637907)

cat unitedlinux > /div/null

I don't get it. Is this some joke about The LSB and having a directory called /div? Are you playing stupid? Are you trying to repeat a Unix joke you once heard, while knowing nothing about Unix? Have I just been trolled? I just don't get it.

Re:Damn... (1)

HiQ (159108) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638003)

Lighten up, t'was only a small joke, but it doesn't get any better if I explain it. And no, I'm not stupid (and certainly don't like being called that); I do know a thing or two about Unix.
The abbriviation of 'divide' is 'div', which looks a bit like 'dev'. It also looks like UnitedLinux is already on destruction course. These things combined...get it?

Re:Damn... (1)

JordanH (75307) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637887)

UntiedLinux!

Re:Damn... (3, Interesting)

jdavidb (449077) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638026)

Hey, I made it first. :)

Communications (2)

southpolesammy (150094) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637733)

I wonder if SuSe obtained the permission of the UL team members to issue this statement. If not, sounds like the UnitedLinux project has some communication problems at the least, and possibly some larger problems looming on the horizon.

I know if I had issued a statement like this without consulting my team members first that there would be hell to pay, but we'll see.

Re:Communications (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637744)

man you guys are fucking dumb.. united linux has
nothing to do with whether a distribution is
licensed "per seat" it's just a bunch of stuff that
will be included in all member distributions.

Re:Communications (4, Informative)

ctid (449118) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637874)

Judging from what the United Linux partners have said, there wouldn't be any restriction on SuSE saying this. As far as I understand, SuSE, Caldera and the rest will sell distros which are "powered" by United Linux. The idea being, presumably, that software updates/packages for one UL-based distro will be compatible with all UL-based distros. However, the companies will all have independent contents, pricing, marketing etc. Therefore, SuSE is just saying what their pricing approach will be. What SuSE chooses to say about selling their UL-powered distro is no business of the other partners.

Re:Communications (2)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637961)

Someone mod this up- there are a lot of cornfused slashkiddiez in the house, and this may be just what they need!

Thank you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3638027)

Thank you! Congratulations on being the one post in this thread so far to say what the article summary *SHOULD* have.

Moderators, could the parent post be bumped to +5? It would clear out some of the less relevant flames around here

Sith lord Love (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637742)

Did n't Caldera try this before and no one bought into it? if I were united linux I would anadon this idea quickly

F00t in mouth dissease? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637758)

long livid the ill eagle KingDumb, the naykid furor is 300 billyun in debt.

Doesn't "plan" (1)

Penguinoflight (517245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637761)

He said he didn't "Plan" to do per seat licencing, but he didn't say he DIDN'T plan to. Basically he's just saying what we want to hear now.

Re:Doesn't "plan" (1)

thefogger (455551) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638028)

He said he didn't "Plan" to do per seat licencing, but he didn't say he DIDN'T plan to

Is there something in this sentence that doesn't make sense?

He said he didn't plan but he didn't say he didn't plan? What did he plan to say that they didn't want to do, but didn't?

Slashdotted already (0)

Hellkitten (574820) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637762)

Does anyone have the text, or a mirror?

Too lazy too try google cache

Re:Slashdotted already (1, Redundant)

HiQ (159108) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637797)

Don't think so, bet here you go:

By Brian Proffitt,
Managing Editor, Linux Today

Representatives from SuSE Linux are anxious to help clear the air about some misunderstandings they feel have arisen around recent news regarding UnitedLinux. And to accomplish this, they have revealed plans for a developer's release of the new distribution.

UnitedLinux, a joint enterprise-oriented distrbution that will be created from the combined resources of Caldera, Conectiva, SuSE, and TurboLinux, was announced last week to the Linux community at large. Most of the reactions from industry analysts and community notables has been a wait and see approach. Some, however, have taken some strong exceptions to what they perceive UnitedLinux is trying to accomplish.

One of the most prevalent concerns is the alledged implementation of a per-seat licensing policy for UnitedLinux. According to SuSE, nothing could be further from the truth, at least as far as SuSE is concerned.

"We really don't plan any per-seat licensing for UnitedLinux," said SuSE's US Director of Sales Holger Dyroff. While he could not speak for the other companies within the UnitedLinux consortium, Dyroff was emphatic that such a major shift in licesning policy was never in the works for their products released under the UnitedLinux banner.

Under the agreement signed by the companies last week, each of the four distribution firms will contribute skills, manpower, and other resources to the development of a single UnitedLinux distrbution, which will then be marketed and released separately by each individual company. Each release will be branded by the individual companies, and will carry a "Powered by UnitedLinux" logo.

From some media reports, early statements from Caldera indicated that they were considering a per-seat license model for their UnitedLinux products and that perhaps other members of the consortium were considering this model as well. Given the separate marketing and sales structure each company has, it is entirely possible that any of the firms involved could use a per-seat license model, though no one in the consortium has made a formal statement regarding this possibility.

According to statements made by the consortium, the source code for the product would be made available under the GPL, though the binaries would not. This raised speculation that a per-seat licensing arrangement was in the works, particularly when no details were given on just how that source code would be distributed.

Dyroff acknowledged that no mention was made at the time of last week's announcement regarding the source code or development access to the UnitedLinux distribution, but he told Linux Today this afternoon that plans were indeed in the works to provide access to the distro for developers.

"We plan on having a downloadable developer's version as well," he stated. "We are absolutely committed to working with the community to produce this product under the GPL."

Currently, none of SuSE's products have a per-seat license arrangement, though the SuSE Maintenance utility (similar to the Red Hat Network) that is integral to the SuSE product does have a per-seat fee arrangement, Dyroff explained. The company has no plans to change this approach when they released their co-branded UnitedLinux enterprise product.

Bradley Kuhn, Executive Director of the Free Software Foundation, who spoke strongly against a per-seat license model from UnitedLinux in media interviews last week, was interested to learn that SuSE was not planning on engaging in per-seat licensing. But, he was quick to add that this did not change the FSF's main concerns regarding UnitedLinux.

Kuhn stated that the FSF has long been concerned with the distribution companies' approach to free software. "Every one of these GNU/Linux companies have been including non-free software with their releases of GNU/Linux," he said, "It's a wrong-headed approach to mix free and non-free software."

Citing SuSE's own YaST application as an example, Kuhn said that the inclusion of software such as this completely negated the value of distribution. He feels the market is bearing the FSF out, too. "Users don't want this non-free software in their distros."

Dyroff and SuSE is engaged in a bit of damage control with respect to other areas surrounding UnitedLinux.

Because the product is targeted solely to the enterprise, Dyroff lamented, many people are under the impression that SuSE will be abandoning its desktop product line. Dyroff reiterated statements he made last week to the media that while they won't be within the UnitedLinux line, SuSE plans on maintaining releases of their SuSE Personal and SuSE Professional editions and stressed that SuSE has absolutely no plans to give up on their desktop models.

Re:Slashdotted already (2, Informative)

Penguinoflight (517245) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637802)

Here's the Google Cache [216.239.39.100]

Per seat licensing - not a RedHat killer (1)

illsleydc (208922) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637775)

Out in the competitive market and company who places major restrictions on their products which their competitors don't won't last long.

UnitedLinux is a group of companies commoditising a shared distro. Some of them will add stuff requiring per-seat licensing. Some won't. Buy the one you want, don't buy the one you don't want. They'll get the message pretty quickly. Remember none of these guys have a monopoly, they can't just change licensing terms and have eneryone swallow it like Microsoft (come to think of it, even they can't do that all the time!)

Ransom Love's Brain Bites Again (4, Interesting)

peterdaly (123554) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637779)

As I said in a post to the previous related slashdot discussion; Ransom Love doesn't understand Open Source PR. His mouth gets the Open Source community to hate him each time he opens it in public. Different spin on his previous "no binaries!" comment and nobody would be upset.

Ransom Love does not understand Open Source PR, and it would be better for everyone if he were not so press-hungry. SUSE has a much better spin on essentially the same facts, and understand the Open Source community is not just a place to leech code from in order to turn a buck. SUSE understands to give/take relationship, Calera, specifically Rasom Love doesn't get it.

Next time you read a quote from Ransom love, understand two things:
1. He doesn't speak for his partners (SUSE/Turbo Linux in this case), even though he will make is sound like he is.
2. He doesn't understand Open Source PR and will be needlessly sticking his foot in his mouth...that's just what he does.

-Pete

Are YOU looking for a superior LINUX? (-1)

DonkeyHote (521235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637821)

Are YOU looking for a superior LINUX? Tried all those 'other' distros? then I've got the linux for you!

It's called OpenBSD! don't let the name fool you it's really linux is wolfs clothing! Be the first one on your block to have it installed! Be the talk of all the nerds, GET OpenBSD Today!

Re:Are YOU looking for a superior LINUX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3638013)

<retard clapping>

kode blew infractions (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637781)

taking lessons from the head FUDgePackers [trustworthycomputing.com] eye gas? time to call in WayGoner & FUDstorm. all the wwworld's a stage/fright.

UnitedLinux is Dying (1, Offtopic)

isa-kuruption (317695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637782)

Just kidding...

one has to wonder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637792)

Considering the UnitedLinux website also says there'll be no source with the alpha and beta versions, maybe whomever made the website was a little confused?

Ransom Love (-1, Troll)

OSSTwitSpotter (570888) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637793)

Ransom Love (chairman of Caledra) made the original statement about per seat licencing. Its clear from his previous activities that this man is a moron and doesn't seem to understand how GPL works.

This is just SuSe putting right Love's blunder.

Re:Ransom Love (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637827)

Funny thing is that RL was the first on the scene with a major commercial Linux. He could have been
as big as Red Hat. He could have been a contender. But he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

More misunderstandings... (5, Informative)

pointwood (14018) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637808)

UnitedLinux is the base distro. Suse, Caldera, etc. are going to be *basing* their distro on that. They are not going to release a UnitedLinux distro. They will release a distro, "Powered by UnitedLinux. Each company can decide their licensing terms themselves.

If Caldera wants to put some extra propritary software in their distro and use per seat licensing, then they are free to do that. Suse has just said that they will not be doing that.

UnitedLinux is IMHO a good thing! They are using and selling free software - they aren't breaking any licenses or anything like that. They are *the good guys* trying to earn a bit of money to stay in business. Is that such a bad thing?

Re:More misunderstandings... (1)

Arethan (223197) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637903)

Someone Mod this parent up!
Someone is finally talking with some sense, instead of waving their arms and shouting without reading any of the facts. Again, mod the parent up!

Re:More misunderstandings... (2)

TRACK-YOUR-POSITION (553878) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638112)

But is UnitedLinux itself based solely on free software? Can I make my own United Linux compliant distro, or is that protected by trademark? It's all unclear to me.

Re:More misunderstandings... (2)

joestar (225875) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638117)

Please read http://news.com.com/2008-1082-929697.html

CNET:
So UnitedLinux will remain an open-source project?

CEO of Caldera:
Absolutely. The only difference is that the UnitedLinux binaries will not be freely distributed. People will be able to download the source code and compile their own binaries, but they will not be able to use the UnitedLinux brand.

Merging free-software and proprietary software is already a shame, but here we are a step higher!

How is this divided? (3, Insightful)

jaaron (551839) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637809)

Okay, maybe someone pointed this out already, but how is this divided? UnitedLinux is NOT ONE distribution. It's a standard base that several distros will be based on. Just because Caldera doesn't understand the market and wants to compete with Red Hat using per seat licenses doesn't mean that SuSE, TurboLinux, Conectiva, and any others who join in the future have to follow this madness. They will STILL be SEPERATE distributions each with their own licenses and quirks. They'll just have some common components that will allow interoperability. This wouldn't be news if so many people would just quit jumping to conclusions about this project before much information is available.

UnitedLinux or MS Linux? (1)

m0rph3us0 (549631) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637815)

Doesn't per-seat licensing seem to go against the whole of the GNU/Linux spirit.

I mean its one thing to charge for support, thats fine by me. But, why should support cost more if your mail server supports 5 users or 5000 users?

From what I understand UnitedLinux is just a standardization of where things are located and the init style, and possibly a different installer for each distriubtion. So, it essence they would be charging for support, and not development.

Per-seat licensing seems silly to me. It makes me think of email support for Exchange, where the email you send to Microsoft for support actually counts against your daily licensed limit for Emails sent through the MTA.

Re:UnitedLinux or MS Linux? (2)

nuggz (69912) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637987)

But, why should support cost more if your mail server supports 5 users or 5000 users

Because having support for a 5000 user system is more valuable, so people will pay more.
Because a 5000 user system is more complicated, or at least larger. More to go wrong, higher likliehood, not as easy to recover.

I believe the per seat licensing refers to computers with UL installed, not the number of clients connected to a server.

Progress (1)

KingKire64 (321470) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637817)

Well it looks like everyone is looking at this as the beginning of the end for UL. But to me it looks like they are actually working on this. Ive seen plenty of Open Source project announced and nothing is really done with them. Its good to see they seem fiarly serious about this. There is going to be problems. My only worry is that becuase Suse is the biggest of the distros they will try to throw their wieght around.

Feel free to mod me down

Per Seat never worked for SCO (1)

Neil Watson (60859) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637818)

If anyone, Caldear should know that a per seat license model cannot work. SCO Unix used that model and Caldera ended up buying them on the cheap.

Differences between Linux distributions (2, Interesting)

joestar (225875) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637820)

It's funny to see the different approaches of Linux distributors to solve the issue "how to make money with a free product".

Red Hat bases everything on their strong image and the fact that they are #1. They base most their business on services while remaining very open-source-spirit oriented.

MandrakeSoft, which more and more appears to be now #2 in term of installed user base, is the biggest defender of Free Software after Debian. They sell boxes, and start to offer business-orieted services such as Red Hat does, but they also had a great idea: they offer extra services to their users (individuals & enterprises) with the Mandrake Club which provides them many subscriptions and a good income.

SuSE, Caldera, TurboLinux... Their deep wish would actually be sell their products "a la Microsoft" with one license per seat, without providing ISO images and so on. They actually have a very "proprietary" ideal, so they try to offer a not too bad image to the Linux community while acting against its ideals in reality.

In my opinion, Red Hat is lucky because they can stay open and make real business, MandrakeSoft is *extremely* innovative in inventing a real business model for Free Software while being a fervent defender of its rules. And SuSE, Caldera... didn't understand anything to Linux/Free Software and are going to be banned by the Linux community, and see their revenues decrease.

Re:Differences between Linux distributions (1)

nervlord1 (529523) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637891)

im geniuenlyl asking, not claiming your wrong, how do you KNOW mandrake is making money, we can take a guess with redhat, but mandrake?

Re:Differences between Linux distributions (2)

joestar (225875) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638023)

Because their results are available publicly on their website. They aren't profitable yet but their income has increased much the last year, and their expenses have been reduced significantly.
Just have a look at: http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/investors/news letter [mandrakesoft.com]

Re:Differences between Linux distributions (3, Informative)

Tester (591) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637899)

MandrakeSoft, which more and more appears to be now #2 in term of installed user base, is the biggest defender of Free Software after Debian.

May I say bulls**t... I'd like to remind you of how Mandrake came to be.. They where RedHat+KDE ans why didnt RH already integrate KDE? Because it was based on non-free software.

There are in my opinion only two major distribution that are true defenders of Free Software, RedHat and Debian. (Well, there's also Gentoo, but its in a class of its own).

Mandrake is just like TurboLinux, Suse and Caldera... They are doing nothing innovative, they are just trying to survive because they didnt move fast enough out of the "sell boxes" market.. Which was also rh's market a few years back (but they moved to offer much more because its a fairly limited market.

In my opinion, Red Hat is lucky because they can stay open and make real business, MandrakeSoft is *extremely* innovative in inventing a real business model for Free Software while being a fervent defender of its rules.

RedHat is not lucky, they are very very good. They have gone from one profitable business model to another when the market changed. They have been very well managed since the beginning and that's the reason they are #1. As for Mandrake, they tried to follow in RedHat footsteps, but following is never a good idea... So at least after a few years, out of desesparation they tried that Club thing.. Its corporate charity, its not a business model!

Caldera and TurboLinux are already almost dead... And Suse, if they dont play well, they will follow. Here at work, we had a bunch of Suse fans who just said "Suse 8.0 sucks, its the worst linux distro that I have seen in years"...

Now for innovation, see Gentoo and Debian
For good business, see Redhat
The rest is crap

Re:Differences between Linux distributions (2, Informative)

Caligari (180276) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637982)

Add Slackware to the list of "defenders" of Free Software. Slackware is one of the oldest and most secure distros around, and still going strong.

Re:Differences between Linux distributions (3, Informative)

joestar (225875) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638008)

>May I say bulls**t... I'd like to remind you of how Mandrake >came to be.. They where RedHat+KDE ans why didnt RH >already integrate KDE? Because it was based on non-free >software.

It was because Red Hat has started to finance GNOME before, and they wanted to kill KDE/Qt at the time. And can I remind you that Red Hat included KDE/Qt early in 1999 _long time before Qt became GPLed?

>There are in my opinion only two major distribution that are >true defenders of Free Software, RedHat and Debian.

Red Hat patents...

>Mandrake is just like TurboLinux, Suse and Caldera... They >are doing nothing innovative, they are just trying to survive >because they didnt move fast enough out of the "sell boxes" >market.. Which was also rh's market a few years back (but >they moved to offer much more because its a fairly limited >market.

Mandrake is the most innovative Linux distribution for a long time: they have introduced many new great tools such as remote updates, the best Linux installer available, security levels, automatic hardware configurator, and so many things. Most those things have been introduced in Linux distros after Mandrake started to introduce them.

I want to remind you that Mandrake started from nothing (not even a company) three years ago, long time after SuSE and Red Hat, and now they are #2, with more users than SuSE + Caldera + Turbo Linux. It's not financial power to market their product, they don't have.

YET MICROSOFT HAS $41 BIL. DOES LINUX HAVE THAT? (-1)

Subject Line Troll (581198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637900)

A HREF="f/?a=1 x f

Re:Differences between Linux distributions (2)

Baki (72515) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638043)

Others have solved the issue "how to make money with a free product" even better: Not to try to make money at all, but to spread the distribution freely just as the kernel itself is developed: as volunteers that give it away. For example Slackware, Gentoo etc.

Gross Generalizations (5, Insightful)

Carnage4Life (106069) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638080)

SuSE, Caldera, TurboLinux... Their deep wish would actually be sell their products "a la Microsoft" with one license per seat, without providing ISO images and so on. They actually have a very "proprietary" ideal, so they try to offer a not too bad image to the Linux community while acting against its ideals in reality.

I don't work for SuSe but consider it rather slanderous (or is that libelous) for you to claim that they are trying to get a free ride out of the Linux community and usurp the GPL by being proprietary when they have explicitly stated that this is not the case. I can believe that Caldera would be in support of per seat licensing since this doesn't differ much from how Ransom Love has described his business plans but to simply paint other companies that contribute to the Open Source community with the same brush because they want to provide a Linux Standard is extremely unkind.

In my opinion, Red Hat is lucky because they can stay open and make real business, MandrakeSoft is *extremely* innovative in inventing a real business model for Free Software while being a fervent defender of its rules. And SuSE, Caldera... didn't understand anything to Linux/Free Software and are going to be banned by the Linux community, and see their revenues decrease.

It is rather sad that such a glorified troll is currently rated +5. All the companies you mention are trying to make money while giving you Free Software. Quite frankly, people like you are the ones that give Slashdot a bad name and make it seem like the Open Source community is a bunch of unfriendly freeloaders.

By the way, most reckonings indicate that MandrakeSoft is just barely doing well [slashdot.org] and although Red Hat's financials are good, they are one of the few software-based company to be able to make a living off of Free Software. Even then they've been on the ropes a bit, I don't see why people should begrudge others for trying to find a way to provide Free Software and still make a living or is it that you'd prefer that all the companies you just besmirched created proprietary software?

How to create a profitable business from Free Software is still a black art and in many cases may be impossible but while we are still trying to figure that out I don't think that it is fair to malign the people who are simply trying to make a living while contributing to Free Software.

Re:Gross Generalizations (1)

ryepup (522994) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638144)

How to create a profitable business from Free Software is still a black art

Isn't offering support and configuring the way to make money off free software? I was under the impression that a lot of RedHat's income came from support contracts.

Re:Differences between Linux distributions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3638085)

You know what? I'm really tired about people complaining about "Company X does not offer ISO images of their linux distribution, so they go against Linux ideals". Which are the linux ideals? I really doubt one of the ideals is to offer ISO images of everything. Someone explain to me, please.

There is no perfect distribution, RedHat puts everything under /usr (7.1 does that) creating a big mess, Mandrake installer is visually the ugliest thing I've ever seen (in my personal opinion), Suse has it's own configuration file (rc.config) and so on. You are free to choose, but saying that because they don't offer an ISO image of the distribution or because they try to make money is going against Linux ideals is just plain wrong. If that were true, then the only real and good Linux distribution should be Debian, everything else is going against "ideals".

United or divided they fall (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637833)

This is no big issue. There is currently only one Linux distribution competing in the buinsess space, which has a clear track record on licensing and community respect and that is Red Hat. The players who are part of the United&Divided Linux effort are mostly small time players who seem bent on trying to lock in their customers with proprietary extensions.

Before more 'Divided Linux' posts start ... (3, Informative)

jaaron (551839) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637835)

This has nothing to do with the UnitedLinux Group being 'divided.' If you would actually READ their website, you'd understand that they are still SEPERATE companies and will still have SEPERATE products each with their own licenses and 'added value' content. The amount of FUD being spread about this project before it even really starts simply amazes me. Can we at least wait until there is actually a product out before passing judgement? Most of the bad press has nothing to do with SuSE, TurboLinux, or Conectiva, but is instead based on Caldera's plans. Don't mix up Ransom Love's messed up business ideas for the UnitedLinux business plan. They're seperate.

I FEEL BAD THAT NO ONE HAS RESPONDED TO YOU POST. (-1)

Subject Line Troll (581198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637941)

A HREF="f/?a=1 x f

Not so united after all? (0, Redundant)

blalor (3119) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637876)

Heh. I guess UnitedLinux isn't so united after all, eh?

per-seat licensing is a killer (2, Informative)

tclark (140640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637882)

Per-seat licensing of a Linux product seems like an obvious marketing suicide attempt. As an admin, one of the big attractions of Linux is freedom from licensing worries. Given the easy licensing optiona available from Red Hat, Debian, et al., I think a United Linux-based distro would have to offer some unbelievable added value in their distro to get me to buy it.

Re:per-seat licensing is a killer (2)

ctid (449118) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637956)

Didn't you read the article? The point is that the United Linux partners are free to choose their own pricing model. Caldera want to do per-seat licensing. This article says that SuSE don't want to do that. There's nothing about United Linux that requires per-seat licensing. It's the decision of each partner how they want to charge.

in fud wee trust? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3637889)

never mind those L00ftwafter .comm0KazzIE freedumb paddlers. there can be only one naykid furor. get used buy IT. just FEEl the momeNTdumb

What is the *aim* of UnitedLinux (2, Interesting)

Nomad7674 (453223) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637894)

OK, I took a week or so off for a vacation and seem to have walked into a new firestorm of information here. I have read most of the UnitedLinux articles referenced at Slashdot and am still somewhat in the dark here.

Can someone tell me what the *intended*aim* of UnitedLinux:
1. To provide a standard "base Linux" to compete with RedHat?
2. To provide a single Linux to be distributed by all members?
3. To provide a single group for all communication/development outside of sales?
4. To provide a single face for customers (i.e. only marketting)?

It sounds like others in this thread are similarly confused. Course, that may be because the members of "United Linux" are a little confused on the aim themselves.

I humbly await enlightenment. ;-)

Re:What is the *aim* of UnitedLinux (3, Informative)

jaaron (551839) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638068)

I'm not part of UnitedLinux, but this is my take: UnitedLinux is a brand. It is a consortium of several companies, current Caldera, SuSE, Conectiva, and TurboLinux. These, and any other future member companies/organizations, will each produce their own distribution under the UnitedLinux brand, i.e.- there will be SuSE United Linux, and Conectiva United Linux, etc. All these UnitedLinux branded distros will adhere to a set of standards defined by United Linux (ie- the member distros). These standards will include the Linux Standard Base, kernel release, libraries, filesystem layout, etc. Each distro will then take this UnitedLinux base system and add their own specialties to it. The UnitedLinux base system alone (not SuSE United Linux, or Conectiva's United Linux, just the base) should be a properly working system, but without a lot of bells and whistles. Just the basic foundation for a distro. It will be distributed in source format at least. Because all these UnitedLinux member distros are based on the same core, applications should the same on any of them. This makes development easier since ISV's don't need to target four or five different distros. This is a good thing. The resulting "aim" of UnitedLinux is then to provide a standard base that is really implemented by several major distributions. It's not necessarily to target RedHat. RedHat can join UnitedLinux, and they may, who knows? But the real purpose is to provide some standards across distros so that it's easier to develop for and consquently market Linux. Sorry this is so long, but so many people seem to misunderstand UnitedLinux.

Re:What is the *aim* of UnitedLinux (1)

thefogger (455551) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638084)

1) Yes.

2-4) Sort of. They won't release a UnitedLinux Distribution but the companies will distribute their products with a "powered by UnitedLinux". Packages from the different distros will be interchangeable. A package for e.g. Mandrake Linux will work on SuSE and Turbolinux too.

The article title may as well be... (1)

gamorck (151734) | more than 12 years ago | (#3637950)

"SuSE denies attempting to turn a profit in an effort to save their dying business. Story at 11."

Translation: Could anybody really blame them for trying if they were going to do that? They aren't going to be around much longer otherwise...

J

Starting to really disagree with the FSF (4, Insightful)

drew_kime (303965) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638030)

[Bradley] Kuhn [Executive Director of the Free Software Foundation] stated that the FSF has long been concerned with the distribution companies' approach to free software. "Every one of these GNU/Linux companies have been including non-free software with their releases of GNU/Linux," he said, "It's a wrong-headed approach to mix free and non-free software."

Citing SuSE's own YaST application as an example, Kuhn said that the inclusion of software such as this completely negated the value of distribution. He feels the market is bearing the FSF out, too. "Users don't want this non-free software in their distros."

The official line from the FSF is that the "correct" way to make money off of free software is by charging for the services surrounding it. That used to include charging someone to install and configure systems. Isn't that what YaST does?

It's starting to seem like all the "services" that can be profitably charged for can eventually be automated. Once these services become programs, suddenly it's no longer OK to charge for them.

If the FSF got its wish and non-free software could never be shipped or used alongside Free software, the companies charging for services would have no incentive to automate these services. One of the selling points of Free software is that it doesn't require as much service. Barring non-free software from working with Free software provides a disincentive to automation.

why compete? (1)

prisen (578061) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638040)

While I understand that there is a multi-million-dollar market for Linux, why make such a competition out of it? The basis for the OS, the code, the meat - is open source, as we all know, and it's not "owned" by any one person or company, or anyone at all. IMO, these organizations that package distros do just that - they take something that already exists (Linux and thousands of other packages for individual peices of software), make it pretty (I'll continue on that in a moment), and put it on a store shelf. Good, I applaud this. I think, however, that some of these companies may have lost sight of what is being paid for -- not the actual OS or its accompanying software, but the printed documentation, the tech support (which seems to be becoming less and less these days), and the pretty installer that makes it all happen. Back to a per-seat license scheme -- this screams Microsoft at me, and I don't think that this is the way anyone intended Linux to be. If I get printed documentation for every license that I purchase, that's one way to go, but I think that kind of makes the per-seat scheme void. In a per-seat situation I'd just be licensing that pretty installer. For the moment, I think "Redhat vs. " is a bad idea. I think that effort could be better focused on development of software. Thoughts?

Re:why compete? (1)

prisen (578061) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638049)

...ehh, that was "Redhat vs. (collaberation of several Linux distribution companies)"

Who's the freeloader? (1, Troll)

jav1231 (539129) | more than 12 years ago | (#3638100)

Here's an analogy for you: Linus, RMS, and the FSF purchase a field (think Woodstock). They decide to make this field freely available to the masses. It's a sort of park where you're free to come have parties, camp, throw festivals, improve it if you like. Entrance is free, though vendors are welcome to sell cokes, snacks, rent chairs etc. Soon groups from all over the world are coming to use the park. They each kind of congregate in their respective areas but mix and mingle to share ideas on occasion. Then along comes a biker group (sorry, I like bikers but I had to think of something somewhat daunting). They decide to carve out a chunk of the park and setup camp. Everyone is intrigued and at first the bikers mix and mingle and get good ideas and share good ideas. Everyone else is interested in the neat happenings in the biker area and some decide to go check it out. Ah! But the bikers have setup gate and are charging a cover for their festivities. Some pay the cover, but most decide it's not really worth it. Others protest that the spirit of the park has been broken. The bikers claim that the other users are just a bunch of freeloaders and they should expect that with all the money spent on beer, food, and the band that the users should expect to pay something. Sound familiar? What the bikers, we'll call them The Caldera Gang, don't understand is that THEY have freeloaded on the property to start with. They've taken advantage of this free concept and decided to carve out a proprietary niche there. Now they've created this consortium, in an effort to get the groups closest to them to band with them. This would make their section of the park larger without them having to really give up much. They send some of their people over to help these new members and vice versa. The bikers just assumed that the members of the consortium would all agree to this cover charge. Ah! But will they? Apparently not. Now it appears that at least one of the new member groups doesn't want a ticket booth on their section of the park. >
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