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First Reviews of Mozilla 1.0 Roll In

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the jaundiced-eye-of-the-beholder dept.

Mozilla 860

Since the announcement of Mozilla 1.0's release, at least a few journalists have been quick to turn the beast over and poke its belly. Tina Gasperson's review over at NewsForge makes an interesting contrast to CNET's review; strange how they give a rating that would barely merit a "C-" after describing Mozilla's robustness, standards compliance, speed and convenience features.

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860 comments

Figured I'd swing by (-1)

L0rdkariya (562469) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654391)

for a quick CLIT-dedicated FP.

FIRST ANTI-CLIT POST!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654432)

Because you all fucked me in the ass. And I liked it.

Re:Figured I'd swing by (-1)

CLIT (581942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654434)

And yet again you keep the FP from those AC heathens!

Re:Figured I'd swing by (-1)

L0rdkariya (562469) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654478)

When I want the FP, no heathen AC is going to stop me. The power of the CLIT is just too great.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654395)

fp

zeet

Well, I think it's crap. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654400)

So there.

Oh, and CLIT: lick me.

Nth POST!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654404)

hahahaha!!! I got the Nth post!! I got every post!! hehehe....

This girl rules! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654407)

Don't you think open source software would be more popular if it were advocated by girls [freebsd.org] like this [madchat.org] instead of old guys with beards? What we need are more free software babes [nulldevice.net] like her [nulldevice.net] . This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox [bazza.com] . If we do have to have the old guys with beards, we could at least make sure they are plenty of hot chicks [freebsd.org] too. I mean just look at this girl [madchat.org] ! Doesn't she [madchat.org] make you hard? I know this little hottie [madchat.org] floats my boat!

Join the campaign for more cute [madchat.org] open source babes [bazza.com] today!

Don't forget to watch the video [nulldevice.net] too!!

No, actaully, I wrote the first review (0, Funny)

Limburgher (523006) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654417)

after I downloaded it, in an email to my wife. I ranted and raved about how awesome it is.

Oh, wait, did you mean the first published review?

Re:No, actaully, I wrote the first review (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654541)

he he wow ur fun-e ! 7:-]

I don't get it.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654423)

I looks like Netscape Navigator to me. What's different about it? Honest question.

Re:I don't get it.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654555)

Oh, just a few things:

fast, stable engine "under the hood"
TABBED BROWSING
Useful sidebars (if you like that sort of thing)
skins
a few hundred more things...

In general, Mozilla is faster and more stable than IE (I'm running Mac OS X).

Re:I don't get it.... (-1)

L0rdkariya (562469) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654622)

I have never figured out this browser war thing.
I use IE, and have occassionally tried Netscape, Mozilla, etc.
They crash consistently.
IE loads pages instantly on a fast connection... How is this "Slow" ? Should it load the page before I click the link ?
Find another fight... IE IS JUST BETTER, ACCEPT IT.. Christ.

Just downlaoded it (1, Redundant)

WinDoze (52234) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654425)

There seems to be a glitch with unordered HTML lists where the bullet on the first item appears a line above the first item. Been there all along, but I had kind of hoped it would be fixed by now.

Re:Just downlaoded it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654531)

Did you report the bug or check if it had been reported before?

Re:Just downlaoded it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654574)

Yeh, it's his fault for not reporting that Mozilla can't handle basic HTML. There was no one on the project who did basic Q&A?

Re:Just downlaoded it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654633)

If he's the only person who's ever noticed this bug, yes, it was. Mozilla relies on user bug testing. That's why they release so many builds. QA people can only do so much.

Use it, find out what breaks, report it, fix it.

hahaha (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654426)

CNET on popups:

this function doesn't discriminate, so it may disable pop-ups you actually want to see, such as the video pop-ups on the News.com front door.

Yeah fucking right CNET. Suck it!

Re:hahaha (1)

rleisti (581240) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654556)

Well put. The only good pop-up is a dead pop-up.

Mozilla ain't that great. (-1, Troll)

Anomolous Cow Herd (457746) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654431)

Mozilla is a fine example of everything that is wrong with open-source software. Most of its problems originate from the fact that its developers are hacks (and not in the good sense) who have no experience in a real software development environment. The project has no direction and the concept of "project management" is unknown to the participants. One example of this problem is Mozilla's extremely slow development cycle -- there are no managers to say "this feature must be completed by X date" and consequently it has taken approximately fifty thousand years to produce a 1.0 product.

And Mozilla 1.0 is by no means more polished or finished than a typical closed-source OTS software package -- on the contrary, because Mozilla has no paying customer or management to answer to, the browser suffers from innumerable problems. It's a RAM hog. It's slow. Its default user interface emphasizes form over function. It's slow. It does not support the current generation of Web-related standards. It's slow. (You may have noticed that I seem fixated on Mozilla's slowness. That's because the "final straw" that caused me to vow "never to download this piece of shit again" was related to its slowness. I have a Sun workstation that cost more money than Slashdot earns in a year. On this workstation, Internet Explorer takes x seconds to load, Netscape 4 takes 2x seconds to load, and Mozilla takes 15x (!!) seconds to load. Absolutely unacceptable and proof that most Mozilla developers have never used real UNIX, and certainly can't write good software for it.)

But I think that the most laughable thing of the farse that is the Mozilla project is that no one said "no" to any feature requests. Futhermore, the project is so disorganized that basic web browser functionality was often ignored so that developers could work on their favorite "cool" features. A good example is the mail client. Now I know that Netscape browsers traditionally include a mail client, but development on such a client should not have began until the browser was finished. And by finished I mean that it supports all current-generation Web-related standards. Even today, Mozilla does not support CSS2 features that Internet Explorer had two years ago. And the CSS2 recommendation was released in 1998. I simply don't understand why Mozilla implements a completely custom widget set when it doesn't even support CSS2. If Mozilla were a proper software development project, the team would have created a working, fast, memory-conservative, standards-based browser before any other features were even thought about. The UNIX and Unix-workalike browser market is essentially non-existant, and I can tell you that those of us who use UNIX for real work (as opposed to pirating MP3s and DVDs and other Taco-esque activities) would have appreciated a fast, standards-compliant browser with the Navigator 4.08 GUI and featureset much more than we appreciate the slow, RAM hog piece of unprofessional garbage that Mozilla has taken way too long to produce.

I use Windows, too, of course. (As does everyone. Even Taco. How do you think he plays all of those "l337" Windows-only video games that he always rants about?) And Windows users have even less reason to be impressed with Mozilla, because most of its "features" seem even more unecessary in a Windows environment. For example, the mail client is absolutely useless, because almost all Windows business users use Outlook or Outlook Express. And Gecko violates Windows user interface conventions, making it look more like some college student's "intro to VB let's see all of the cool buttons and colors that I can add to my app" project than an application that is actually intended for use in the real world.

Remember that Windows users make up almost all of the world's web surfers. As a browser, Internet Explorer is superior to Mozilla. No one cares about your colorful GUI or your half-assed mail client if you can't even make a decent browser. You have lost, have a nice day.

Mozilla has also lost on the UNIX platform. Internet Explorer is faster and more standards compliant. Ironically, it's also a much better UNIX application. By the way, did you know that Microsoft includes CDE icons with the IE/UNIX distribution? That's class.

Mozilla similarly fails on Mac OS 9 and X. IE owns that market, too.

All that Mozilla has left is GNU/Linux, and the only reason that it even has that market is that IE hasn't been ported to Linux yet.

The browser is a piece of crap. The project is a failure. The "developers" are embarassments to the open source community. I only hope that, now that 1.0 has finally been released, evreyone can give up on the project and move to another browser. All of you immature hypocritical fucktards seem to think that Microsoft isn't worth supporting because its software is bloated and buggy, right? Well, you should dump Mozilla for the same reason. Mozilla doesn't have the incredible featureset that makes Microsoft products the most popular in the world despite their flaws. If you want to continue to live in your little Linux fantasy-land where I'm sure you still think that Linux is "ready for the desktop" and that any sane consumer cares about your petty philosophical beef with capitalism, move to Konqueror or Opera. Neither of those browser is very good, but they do lack the fetid stink that has followed Mozilla ever since Netscape shat out that awful 4.x source code so many years ago.

Fuck you all.

-- The_Messenger

Re:Mozilla ain't that great. (0, Funny)

neal n bob (531011) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654468)

this should be +5 informative. and +7 anally pleasurable.

Re:Mozilla ain't that great. (1)

sisukapalli1 (471175) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654475)

Holy cow... Holy cow... Why don't you give me some of that whatever that you are smoking?


It's a RAM hog. It's slow. Its default user interface emphasizes form over function. It's slow. It does not support the current generation of Web-related standards. It's slow.


Then use Galeon, based on Mozilla...

S

Re:Mozilla ain't that great. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654481)

Are you a cunt or are you just pretending to be one for a laugh?

Re:Mozilla ain't that great. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654518)

Troll! Whinny loozer troll! Keep your Internet Exploder if it makes you happy to feed Bill the Bandit's bank and ego. Most Free (Libre) browsers are much better and more secure than the microsnot offerings. If you think you are better off with IE, then by all means use it. But until you leave the compound Bill Gates keeps all his hens in for stealing their eggs and frying for supper, don't insult the intelligence of people who have seen the light.

Re:Mozilla ain't that great. (1)

spbriggs (559447) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654648)

>Mozilla is a fine example of everything that is wrong with open-source software.

Hey, lets get those prejudices out the way before we start!

>Most of its problems originate from the fact that its developers are hacks (and not in the good sense)

I think the noun you were looking for was "hacker" not "hack" - in English (as opposed to American) a "hack" is a journalist

> The project has no direction and the concept of "project management" is unknown to the participants.

It also has no half-witted arse-for-a-brain manager who wouldn't know a browser from a bagel introducing pointless features 'cause he read an article that said it would be cool.

> "this feature must be completed by X date"

Such as Bill "this bug be must fixed by ah, whenever" GAtes

> And Mozilla 1.0 is by no means more polished or finished than a typical closed-source OTS software package

Hey Windows 1.0 rocked!

> It's a RAM hog.

Have you seen XP?

> It does not support the current generation of Web-related standards.

Oh right, now you are taking the piss.

> I have a Sun workstation that cost more money than Slashdot earns in a year.

This explains why you like Microsoft. You have more more than sense.

>I can tell you that those of us who use UNIX for real work ... would have appreciated a fast, standards-compliant browser with the Navigator 4.08 GUI

So recompile it. That's what open source is for.

>For example, the mail client is absolutely useless, because almost all Windows business users use Outlook or Outlook Express.

Because they are using MS Exchange - therefore your point is completely OT. Oh and sorry, remind me, which email client is the most efficient distributor of viruses/worms in history?

> As a browser, Internet Explorer is superior to Mozilla.

No, as a proprietory browser IE is Microsoft's anti-competitive leverage tool.

Pre-Empting a Slashdotting (0)

Spad (470073) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654435)

Nulldevice BSDBabe Pic [nulldevice.net]

Newspeak (5, Funny)

Mr Guy (547690) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654439)

From The CNET article [cnet.com] Even stranger, both Mozilla and Netscape outran IE 6 in three of four tests.


From now on, "strange" will be defined as "something you would predict off the top of your head"

Re:Newspeak (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654548)

I agree that it is strange, as IE has access to Microsoft's hidden APIs, whereas Mozilla and Netscape are restricted.

Re:Newspeak (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654560)

Don't the editors really how plainly that shows their biases? I mean, jeez. Why not just start the article of with "IE RULES!!!!!" and end it with "Don't even think about switching!!!"

Reviewer Wrong? (3, Informative)

_Quinn (44979) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654445)

Reviewer: "However, the release notes say you should not use your Netscape profiles, because you could lose your search settings or become the victim of an ever-growing bookmark file that might freeze your system. I've been using Mozilla 1.0 since the release announcement, with my Netscape profile, and haven't experienced these problems. Yet."

Release notes: "Do not share a profile between Netscape and Mozilla builds."

e.g., not in the same directly, not import, yes?

-_Quinn

CNN.com review (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654451)

CNN has a review . To summarize, they give it 10/10. [cnn.com]

MSNBC has a review . They give it 7/10. [msnbc.com]

Re:CNN.com review (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654499)

i can see that some moderator didnt check those links......

-1, troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654506)

did you click the links? the idiot trolled you all

Re:CNN.com review (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654586)

What the hell? Are you an idiot? How do these links have any relevence to the story? ARE THE MODERATORS IDIOTS FOR LABELING THIS GUY'S POST "INFORMATIVE"???

Re:CNN.com review (2)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654604)

MOD PARENT DOWN. It's a TROLL.

The first link is a troll. (Yeah I'll lose karma on this too but moderators, please wait for the parent to get modded down before you kill this post.)

All Links are bad, "-1" down this one. (2)

peterdaly (123554) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654616)

see subject.

I think it's great. (2, Redundant)

gambit3 (463693) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654456)

First open source stuff I've used. I'm running it at home on XP and at work on NT4. Absolutely LOVE the tabs.

I think I finally found what will replace my beloved Netscape 4.7 as my browser of choice.

Re:I think it's great. (4, Funny)

mshiltonj (220311) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654482)

First open source stuff I've used.I'm running it at home on XP and at work on NT4.

Welcome aboard, friend! Now, about that XP...
;-P

Re:I think it's great. (2, Interesting)

baldass_newbie (136609) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654503)

Absolutely LOVE the tabs.

Er, uh, have you tried Opera [opera.com] yet?
They practically invented tabbed browsing.
Not that I don't like Moz, I've had rc3 since its release and I'll download next week when the pipes have cooled.
I've just always thought Opera was a little better than Netscape 4.7. (And hell, at least you had the good sense to stay away from 6.)

Hi! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654459)

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Re:Hi! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654489)

yey I am a pimple faced 13 year old I know how to make the screen realy wide I am cool!

Re:Hi! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654540)

That's good to know. Maybe you should go ahead and do some widening like me.

I do it for the chicks. Ever since I started page widening, I noticed my shaft had become significantly wider in girth as well.

Re:Hi! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654592)

in girth as opposed to what, wider in length? you are a fucking moron, i hope your boyfriend loves you cause noone else does

Re:Hi! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654554)

For one thing, Mozilla doesn't always render Web pages the same way IE does. Why does that matter? Many Web designers have built sites primarily for IE, and those pages look odd in Mozilla

for once the parent is an insiteful comment

Built for IE! (5, Insightful)

hkhanna (559514) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654462)

For one thing, Mozilla doesn't always render Web pages the same way IE does. Why does that matter? Many Web designers have built sites primarily for IE, and those pages look odd in Mozilla.

This is what irks me. The web is supposed to be platform-neutral, not built for IE. Mozilla, IMHO is doing the right thing by not making its browser conform to the skewed standards IE has set. I say let those pages that are "built for IE" look like crap. Sooner or later, Mozilla will gain market share (we hope,) and people will have to begin building web pages that are standards-compliant not IE-compliant. Good job, Mozilla!

Hargun

Re:Built for IE! (2)

mshiltonj (220311) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654500)

I say let those pages that are "built for IE" look like crap. Sooner or later, Mozilla will gain market share (we hope,) and people will have to begin building web pages that are standards-compliant not IE-compliant.

If AOL uses NS7 for its AOL 8.0 client. I'd say that's a safe bet.

Re:Built for IE! (5, Interesting)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654584)

And I've been wondering about Apple. Many web designers still use Macs for web design.

If Apple started to distribute Mozilla as the default browser instead of IE, it would also help Mozilla to gain market share.

If you ask me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654565)

It ceases to be an HTML and becomes an Internet Explorer Document the moment it can't display properly in any other browser.

Re:Built for IE! (2)

ftobin (48814) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654594)

I entirely agree. If you want something to look the same on all sites, use a PDF or PNG. Next we'll have people complaining that they don't get 1024x768 resolution with 16 bit color (among other things, of course) on their cell phone and hence their yahoo.com displays a bit different.

Re:Built for IE! (1)

adamjaskie (310474) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654617)

Yeah, I hate those sites. I have made a few web pages, and, suprize suprize, its not that hard to make it look good in IE and Mozilla, and still look OK in Netscape 4.x. As a matter of fact, if you make the page work in Mozilla, IE can usually handle it. I usually can get by with testing primarily in Mozilla and a little in NS4.

Re:Built for IE! (1)

PipianJ (574459) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654649)

As I've said multiple times, I'm not at all against Mozilla being entirely standards-compliant. My problem lies in the fact that they both interpret the standards differently (Particularly in the case of getting the style attribute text according to the DOM)

Funniest line in the Cnet Review (5, Funny)

vjmurphy (190266) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654470)

"The bad: Incompatible with some sites built for Internet Explorer"

Uh. Well. Duh.

Re:Funniest line in the Cnet Review (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654610)

Uh. Well. Duh.
I can add a few more to those:

Ah. Oh. Ugh. ooof. Bah. Deh. Jiff.

Re:Funniest line in the Cnet Review (2, Informative)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654628)

"The bad: Incompatible with some sites built for Internet Explorer"

The good: CNET realises that those sites were built using nonstandard markup language for IE and it is not some standards-deviation or bug in Mozilla that is causing the problem.

You would think that CNET had competent authors (4, Informative)

akiaki007 (148804) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654491)

But...once you are done with the full review and read "The Good, The Bad..." section...take a look at this.
The bad: Incompatible with some sites built for Internet Explorer; chat client doesn't work with the big commercial IM systems, including ICQ, Yahoo IM, AOL IM, and Windows Messenger.

Last time I checked. ChatZilla was a IRC client, not a friggin chat program to be used with AIM, ICQ, etc. While that would be something nice to add, it's already been done and I don't see why the author would mention this. IRC is much cooler than IM anyhow!

Re:You would think that CNET had competent authors (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654591)

Shhhh! There's already enough lame people on irc, we don't want the masses to know about it!

CNET are M$ whores. (3, Interesting)

crovira (10242) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654494)

Unless you want to read ass-kissing, don't go there.

They can even write pap about desktop Video and FireWire without even mentionning Apple existence.

They're strange that way.

Re:CNET are M$ whores. (4, Insightful)

I Want GNU! (556631) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654558)

Actually, Mozilla had a 7/10 on their rankings, the same thing they gave to IE. And they noted how it was faster than IE. I'd like to see some other evidence of them being "M$ whores." I don't like MS, but I like actual evidence instead of baseless accusations and name callings (The $ in MS is just getting old).

I think that if they considered security as well, Mozilla would beat out IE, but ignoring security and standards (both of which Mozilla beats out IE at) the browsers would be similar.

Maybe it's just me though not wanting to give internet servers capabilities to read my entire hard drive (see jscript.dk).

I like the Mozilla situation with OS X... (1)

PrimeWaveZ (513534) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654496)

With Mozilla being supported in so many ways on OS X, users have so many wonderful options. While I do like some of the things about Mozilla, I personally prefer OmniWeb 4.1b7, and IE 5.1.4 when I need it. However, competition almost never hurts, so everyone needs to keep biting at everyone else's heels. Work for my business!!!

On first glance.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654504)

it uses 3 times the memory space as IE. I thought it was supposed to be more efficient?

FAYBABTUP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654507)

In A.D. 2101
War was beginning.
Captain: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Captain: It's You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your base are belong to us.
Cats: You are on the way to destruction.
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Cats: HA HA HA HA ....
Captain: Take off every 'zig' !!
Captain: You know what you doing.
Captain: Move 'zig'.
Captain: For great justice.

Truly amazing! (3, Insightful)

ciryon (218518) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654511)

I am thrilled beyond words. This is absolutely the best browser I have ever used. I had a tough time deciding which browser to use, but this is it. I especially recommend the Mouse Gesture Add-on [mozdev.org] .

Ciryon

Weird review (1)

abigor (540274) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654521)

So let's see, Mozilla is faster than IE, has a great email client, is skinnable so it will look nice, has tabs, which the reviewer liked, and on and on...but because the chat client is IRC-based, it only gets 7 out of 10?

If one were paranoid, one would almost suspect a conspiracy...or bias.

Re:Weird review (1)

Erik Fish (106896) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654599)

Hey, this IS C|Net we're talking about.

They've always been huge MS shills.

slashdotted already! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654522)

As users, it's easy to forget exactly why we liked computers so much to begin with. We get enmeshed in routine and things get boring. Then one day there's a 1.0 release to review, and surprise of surprises, it's an adventure in discovery that brings back some of the magic. Mozilla 1.0 isn't perfect, but it certainly is a lot of fun packed into one browser.

First, the basics. Mozilla and Netscape mirror each other in ease of installation with an idiot-proof GUI installer. I just downloaded the installer in a tar.gz format. Unpacked into my home directory, the files went into /home/tina/mozilla-installer. I entered the directory, changed to superuser because I want the rest of my family to be able to use Mozilla, too, and typed sh mozilla-installer. The GUI interface came up, and I accepted the default installation directory: /usr/local/mozilla. If you're the only one who uses your computer, you could just install it in /home/your_home/mozilla.
Once I told it where to install, it dutifully downloaded and installed all the files for me automatically, just like Netscape does. The application then opened and pulled in all the settings from Netscape so I didn't have to take time to transfer any bookmarks or set up my mail accounts. However, the release notes say you should not use your Netscape profiles, because you could lose your search settings or become the victim of an ever-growing bookmark file that might freeze your system. I've been using Mozilla 1.0 since the release announcement, with my Netscape profile, and haven't experienced these problems. Yet.

One minor aesthetic point: I liked that Mozilla defaults to the "classic" Netscape look instead of the new theme. If you don't like "classic" or "modern" you can go to Deskmod or mosdev.org to get some new ones.

Using Mozilla to browse Web sites is completely intuitive for anyone who is familiar with browsers. Everything is where it "should" be. Yet browsing for me was a bit uncomfortable because it felt like there was just a bit of a lag opening pages. It could have been my connection, but I opened up Opera just to compare, and the page load times felt much faster -- I didn't feel like I was trying to help pull them up myself like I was with Mozilla. The pages themselves rendered quickly, but there was always a slight lag in seeing the page. That's my only complaint.

Features

It's the features that make Mozilla a standout. I've been using Mozilla for months, but never took time to investigate the features I've heard murmurings about, like tabbed browsing. With this review, though, I started poking around to find out exactly what I could do with the long-awaited official 1.0 Mozilla. I used Mozilla's own recommendations as a guide for the "10 most interesting things" about the browser.

Pipelining

Of all the features, this is the one I care least about. Pipelining allows multiple HTTP requests to be sent out together, instead of each request being sent in turn and not until a reply is received for the previous one. Mozilla says that the "act of pipelining can result in a dramatic improvement in page loading times, especially over high latency connections." Later on in the same document, however, it says that if the pipelining is too long, it can cause "user-perceived delays." Mozilla says it is the only browser that makes use of pipelining.

Tabbed browsing

Tabbed browsing is cool, but it's not unique -- Opera uses this. It can be a bit disconcerting at first if you're used to each window coming up separately. The nicest part about it is that you can see what pages you have open because the tabs are labeled with the page title. If you're like me, you may not have room in the task bar for the identity of each page to be seen; the tabs stay big enough to read easily, up to around 10 pages, depending on your screen resolution.

Pop-up blocking

Of course, being able to control pop-ups is a wonderful feature that every browser should have. Set it and never have to worry about being bombarded with advertisements in new windows sprouting all over your screen faster than you can chase them down and close them. It'd be even greater if it worked all the time -- the popups at some sites still keep popping -- nytimes.com, for example.

Bookmark keywords

This is fun. When you set a bookmark, you can assign a keyword to it, a la Real Names, and type that keyword into your navigation bar instead of the whole URL. What's more, you can set user inputs for your keywords. If you search Google all the time like I do, you can set a Google keyword and add your search terms to it for faster searching. Here's how: Perform a search in the usual way on Google. File the bookmark. Open the bookmark in the bookmark manager and click on "properties." Give it the keyword "Google". In the URL, delete the search term you used and substitute "%s," to indicate "this is where a user input will happen." Save it. Now, when you want to do a quick search on say, takamine acoustics, type "Google takamine acoustic" in the navigation bar and your search comes up automatically. Use any terms you like, and be creative.

User customizability

Mozilla is very, very customizable. So much so that there are even hidden ways to customize. To find out more, type about:config in your navigation bar, and Mozilla will present you with a complete list of all user-configurable parameters. Be careful -- the FAQ warns that you could render Mozilla unusable if you set something incorrectly. See Customizing Mozilla for more information and a useful, well-commented sample preference file that helped me understand exactly what user customization is all about. I didn't mess with this much; I have a feeling this is one of those things programmers will enjoy tweaking much more than all us "just-a-user" kind of people.

Page viewing

Mozilla has some handy page viewing shortcuts for zoom:

Zoom text smaller: Ctrl and -
Zoom text larger: Ctrl and +
These work very well, but not instantly, so don't press Ctrl - 10 times like I did in my impatience.
Mozilla also mentions alternate stylesheets, but after searching the menus and in the help files, I couldn't find any information about this.

Themes and appearance

I've already mentioned themes, and Mozilla recommends that you use different themes to change the look of Mozilla, including getting smaller icons and turning off the text under the icons, a feat that you can accomplish in Netscape without resorting to a different theme. Another thing that seems backward is the fact that you cannot move the toolbars around -- but Mozilla did say that people would tend to judge this 1.0 release not by the standard of a 1.0 release, but by comparing it to commercial browsers. This is one area where Mozilla seems behind -- but moving toolbars around and shrinking icons isn't at the top of my priority list, so I can wait.

Widened Slashdot Pages

I use Linux/Mozilla as my OS/Browser choice and have enjoyed reading slashdot up to now. However I went round to a friends house and saw slashdot on Windows XP/IE 6 - imaging my jealousy when I saw the sumptuous wideness with which IE6 rendered the slashdot pages! In contrast my Linux experience now seemed somehow inferior. It surprised me that slashdot of all places would serve pages that are 'best viewed with IE 6'! Mozilla 1.0 now fixed the "Anorexic pages" bug, and its users can now fully share in the wide page joy.

Built-in chat

Chatzilla is perfectly adequate as an IRC app but nothing spectacular. It's nice to have it included as part of the browser though. You won't get this unless you specify it during the install -- you have to select the "full install" option. Chatzilla is customizable in the same way that the browser is, for instance, you can add a line indicating your IRC nick.

Extensibility

Developers will shine here. Mozilla, in fact, says that its mission is "create open source code that software developers can use to build web applications." As a user, I'm just along for the ride. Mosdev.org is the repository for projects developers are working on to add on to Mozilla. One project that caught my eye is the PlugIn Doc project, which provides instructions for installing and setting up plugins in Mozilla, a task that has proved troublesome for me in the past. Speaking of plugins, when I was browsing around I decided to go to the heavily-java-dependent games.yahoo.com. Mozilla didn't know I had Java already installed, so it sent up the "get the plugin" interface. On a whim I decided to click it and found that Netscape has created a very easy to use plugin locater and installer, at least when it comes to Java for Linux, called the Netscape Plugin Finder Service.

Multiple platforms

Finally, Mozilla developers say it runs on dozens of platforms. I'll take their word for it since I'm only running one.

Verdict

The jury is still out right now. I like it, and for now I'll keep using Mozilla 1.0, probably gradually customizing it to my personal likes. My "perception" of slower loading times may or may not cause me to go back to Netscape 4.77 or Opera. After four years of anticipation by the Open Source community, having Mozilla 1.0 and running it is lots of fun. I'm impressed by Mozilla, but wonder if I'll ever have time to learn all the "tweaks" on this powerful browser created especially for software developers.

it doesn't surprise me that CNET gave a 7 (4, Informative)

peteshaw (99766) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654526)

Think about it. CNET has never strived to achieve a benchmark for impartial reporting, they collect advertising revenue. So one of there biggest caveats is to not piss off 'the industry' as they see it. So they give all these least common denominator reports that don't have any useful information. They just gave a Netscape a review, and gave it the lowest possible score they could justify given that it was faster, more stable, and more W3C compliant than the big IE.


Think I'm wrong? By contrast, PCWeek, eWeek, and lots of other industry rags tend to be more impartial, and will generally call a turd a turd and a gem a gem, not vice versa.


But then there's audience too to calculate in too. I dare say that if Microsoft were to behave nicely and come out with a superier product that was priced fairly, some one here would find something to bitch about.

why is opera so fast? (2, Informative)

JeanBaptiste (537955) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654528)

Not knowing a whole lot about it, it seems that my opera has (speedwise) outperformed both netscape and ie by quite a good margin

Re:why is opera so fast? (2)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654620)

I think the most interesting speed boost in Opera comes from the MDI interface. Opening a new window in Opera is virtually instantaneous. However, opening a new window in IE is akin to opening a new instance of an app.

Also, Opera doesn't require near as much memory as IE does. So if you're on a machine limited on RAM, like my laptop is, then this'll provide a nice speed boost heh.

OK, but not all I wanted (3, Interesting)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654534)

A while ago (M17?) I decided I was going to wait for 1.0 before I switched over to Mozilla.

Since then I fell in love with Opera's gestures and tabbed browsing. I think that Mozilla handles Tabs Awsomly, but that its gestures are kinda lame.

ex: in Opera I can right click hold and mouse wheel to change windows.

and can go foward and back with just the buttons (no motion). In Mozilla I am stuck with holding a button that has another function and moving the mouse, and with my spazzy hand I fail half the time succeed.

Amyway, I like Mozilla but it won't become my browser of choice anytime soon (I predict).

not complying with IE is a "foibles"? (1)

bberg (516819) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654535)

Many Web designers have built sites primarily for IE, and those pages look odd in Mozilla. For example, we struggled with sites that use a technology called positioning to put ads on their pages. In IE, those ads temporarily hide part of the page, then go away. But in our Mozilla tests, the ads sometimes permanently blocked part of the page, and we had to reload the page until we got a different, regular, nonpositioning ad.

Despite these few foibles...



Foibles? just because IE likes to follow its own standard doesn't mean that it IS the standard. I would consider this a "foibles" on IEs part. If a developer is only designing a site for ID (and not for Netscape, for example) they are hurting themselves and their customer. A cross-browser compatibility (otherwise called following a standard) is something that will win you long term costumers who notice your attention to detail.

I can see why a reviewer would compare a new browser to IE, but to consider IE the standard is hardly appropriate.

It has problems with ads. (4, Insightful)

peterdaly (123554) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654536)

For example, we struggled with sites that use a technology called positioning to put ads on their pages. In IE, those ads temporarily hide part of the page, then go away. But in our Mozilla tests, the ads sometimes permanently blocked part of the page, and we had to reload the page until we got a different, regular, nonpositioning ad.

------
The problem is not the browser...but the ad. When will these people wake up? Did you catch that TWO of their few complains centered around use of ads, or features to stop ads? When you turn pop-ups off, it may disable some aspects of cnet.com (news.com?) that you really want to use. Hehe...yeah.

The ads causing a page to be non-function is a good reason to a) stop using the site and b) send the webmaster a poltite message telling them why you will never visit their site again.

-Pete

No STL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654544)

The title summarizes what is wrong with Mozilla. It's why Mozilla is such a bloated piece of NIH.

The (4, Insightful)

Big Stick (318410) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654545)

In the CNET review,

For one thing, Mozilla doesn't always render Web pages the same way IE does. Why does that matter? Many Web designers have built sites primarily for IE, and those pages look odd in Mozilla.

This "criticism" seems to me to be rather absentminded. Specifically building sites for IE is a shortcoming on the developer side. And imagine a browser being criticised for rendering ads, of all things, incorrectly! Go figure. Personally I can't wait to update my RCx.

mentions the good, the bad, but never the ugly (2, Interesting)

Schlemphfer (556732) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654546)

I suppose these were a couple good first-day reviews. I downloaded 1.0 yesterday and played around with it. My impressions were that for casual use, Mozilla's pretty indistinguishable from IE. But there was one thing that caught my attention that I think is of great importance, but wasn't mentioned in either review.


Not to troll, but the front end of Mozilla is ugly as sin. If this browser's going to catch on, what will matter to most mainstream users isn't pipelining, tabbed browsing, or HTML compliance, but the initial first impression of how good it looks. Say what you want about Microsoft, but they hired some standout designers to make IE look gorgeous.


Now I know that the whole point of Mozilla is the underlying technology. But for it to catch on as a browser, it needs to be every bit as pretty as IE. It'll be interesting to see if the Netscape version of 1.0 incorporates a glossy front end. For now, I know which browser I politically favor, but I also know which one I want to look at several times a day. They aren't the same.

Re:mentions the good, the bad, but never the ugly (2, Informative)

NullProg (70833) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654577)

"Edit"
"Preferences"
"Appearance"
"Themes"
"Get New Themes"

Enjoy.

Re:mentions the good, the bad, but never the ugly (2, Interesting)

Platinum Dragon (34829) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654606)

Did you try switching to the Modern theme?

Or take a peek at some of the other available themes [deskmod.com] to find something you like?

Re:mentions the good, the bad, but never the ugly (2)

crawling_chaos (23007) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654613)

I'm running it right now at the office and it looks no worse than any other Win XP application. The window frame and outside controls are all native widgets.

What OS are you running it under?

Re:mentions the good, the bad, but never the ugly (4, Insightful)

SimplyCosmic (15296) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654631)

Alright, I realise what we're talking about is more personal aesthetic tastes than anything else, but I just couldn't believe someone would describe Internet Explorer as "gorgeous".

Functional, yes. Gorgeous, what?

Regardless, if that's the biggest complaint, try any of the smattering of themes available. Now that 1.0 is out, I imagine they'll start growing in number soon, but at least try out Orbit Moz Theme [mozdev.org]

Re:mentions the good, the bad, but never the ugly (4, Insightful)

SurfsUp (11523) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654655)

Not to troll, but the front end of Mozilla is ugly as sin.

You aren't using the classic theme, are you? In my opinion the modern (view/apply theme/modern) looks quite nice. Anyway, the big deal about 1.0 is that the interfaces used by themes are finally stable, so expect the floodgates to open.

Quick Review (2, Funny)

dasmegabyte (267018) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654549)

I like the idea of Mozilla. But a day after installing it, I'm still using IE. Why? IE is more responsive...and that's what's important to me.

I do use it at home sometimes...but only because the wife hates it, and therefore she never checks my pr0n history (heh).

Reviewer need's a lesson in HTML standards (3, Insightful)

Neil Watson (60859) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654559)

From the CNET article:
" Beyond its skins and pop-up-killing abilities, however, Mozilla 1.0 doesn't do much more for the average Web surfer than Internet Explorer does. For one thing, Mozilla doesn't always render Web pages the same way IE does. Why does that matter? Many Web designers have built sites primarily for IE, and those pages look odd in Mozilla. For example, we struggled with sites that use a technology called positioning to put ads on their pages. In IE, those ads temporarily hide part of the page, then go away. But in our Mozilla tests, the ads sometimes permanently blocked part of the page, and we had to reload the page until we got a different, regular, nonpositioning ad."

I seriously doubt this has anything to do with Mozilla. More likely, the web designer used the broken standards of IE and never bothered to test it with other browsers.

What a shock.. (2)

Rombuu (22914) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654562)

...the open source advocacy site likes an open source web browser. Color me surprised.

Re:What a shock.. (4, Insightful)

tempest303 (259600) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654630)

Actually, Linux.com editors seem to say even more nice things about the closed source, commercial Opera than they do any open source browser. I don't think I've read a browser review yet on Linux.com that didn't mention it, so if you're implying bias, go look again.

im wondering (1)

paradesign (561561) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654563)

where are the reviews of the partys? how were they, were there any hotties, or women at all? just wondering cause there was all of the hype leading up to this.

Mozilla in my opinion (0, Flamebait)

Xcrap (583883) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654568)

Its still too slow and bloated and its too little too late.

Come on, its really not worth four years of work. Tabbed browsing was a feature that could be good but other browsers have it too. Other tabbed browsers include Opera, Konqueor 3.1 and even lynx/links ran in mutiple ttys.

But the mozilla project has released something better than their browser, and thats bugzilla. Ive seen open source software that use this have their bugs killed really fast.

Overall, Mozilla its not that great.

my faith restored (4, Insightful)

negativethirsty (555244) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654582)

After becoming an employee of a "microsoft shop" in jan, I've used nothing but m$ and its products for 99% of my development tools(officexp/winxp pro/messenger/vis studio etc) and day to day work.

So I took a chance on the posting yesterday and decided to give Mozilla a whirl. First impression wasn't that great due to the cheese splash screen on launch(which I replaced, and it actually listened to me!). However it didn't take long for me to be converted after that.

Right off the bat, I turned off 90% of pop up adds, imported my IE fav's and even gave it a new look using the themes. i was and still am truely impressed by Mozilla. I can search my bookmarks, a huge deal for me. I can tell Mozilla how to behave...and it seems to actually listen!
After realising how much I liked this new browser I suddenly became very aware of how far the 'net in general has gone down hill since IE's dominace. I realized how my work got further and further away from stds, focused on M$ and how they wanted things done. Most of all I was dissapointed how I had forgotten just how good the net as a whole used to be.
Either way, if the Moz. dev team is listening, thank you. I can once again surf in peace.

first puff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654583)

bummer! having a lameness filter on /. is like having a sh1t filter in the a$$!

C-Nut review is narrow minded (4, Insightful)

d3xt3r (527989) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654590)

This is the type of review that really annoys me. The review spends 10 paragraphs praising Mozilla for it's standards compliance, speed, reliability, etc and then has to go and ruin it all by saying "Good but no IE Killer."

"Mozilla doesn't always render Web pages the same way IE does. Why does that matter? Many Web designers have built sites primarily for IE, and those pages look odd in Mozilla"

What?!? So because a bunch of lazy web "developers" have written IE specific html, we should not just assume this means IE is the better browser? I think this is a really narrow-minded observation. Granted he may be right about the rendering, but it does not mean that Mozilla is not as good as IE.

Seriously, IE simply renders pages more "correctly" because it dominates the market and lazy "developers" have written IE specific code.

I guess this journalist also believes that Windows is superior to Mac OS X because there is more software available for it. Or maybe he just enjoys BSODs. Get real, this is not a fair way to compare browsers.

One last thing... can someone please show me a page link to all these pages that don't render correctly in Mozilla? I use Mozilla exclusively and have not come upon any pages in the last few months that do not work correctly with Mozilla.

Re:C-Nut review is narrow minded (5, Insightful)

nuggz (69912) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654646)

Most people want to use their web browser and see the site as it was written to be seen.

If the browser shows the site nicely, it is a good browser.
If the browser shows a garbled mess it is a bad browser.

You can argue technical correctness all you want, but all most people care about is if it works as intended. The fact that the site isn't written properly doesn't matter to them, just that IE works and Mozilla doesn't.

yes this could be flamebait, but really that is how people think.

Now of only theu could get Mozilla Mail working... (2)

Rob Parkhill (1444) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654596)

Got to admit, Moz 1.0 is pretty sweet. It got a little bit faster with each release, and a lot more stable.

Now if only the Mozilla email bits would work properly. All sorts of issues there. My favorite is Mozilla crashing whenever you try to sign/encrypt any S/MIME message when you are not logged into the certificate manager. Nice.

Skewed speed results! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654601)

IE scores so poorly in the individual tests, yet gets rated perfect overall?

Sounds like the results were tampered with, or the test is greatly flawed.

Here's another (1)

stankyho (172180) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654609)

Here's another review at Evolt [evolt.org] .
Which is also featured here [pirated-sites.com] . They've been Pirated.

only one thing can describe this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654632)



Party Hard


When it's time to party we will party hard
You,
You work all night (all night)
And when you work you don't feel all right
And we, We can't stop feeling all right (all right)
And everything is all right
'Cos we will never listen to your rules (no)
We will never do what others do
Do what we want and we get it from you
Do what we like and we like what we do
So let's get a party going (let's get a party going)
Now it's time to party and we'll party hard (party hard)
Let's get a party going (let's get a party going)
When it's time to party we will always party hard Party hard (party hard, party hard, party hard...)


All right
You,
You break the thing
And when you play you feel all right
But we,
We can't stop feeling all right (all right)
And everything is all right


'Cos we will never listen to your rules (no)
We will never do what others do
Know what we want and we get it from you
We do what we like and we like what we do


So let's get a party going (let's get a party going)
Now it's time to party and we'll party hard (party hard)
Let's get a party going (let's get a party going)
When it's time to party we will always party hard Party hard (party hard, party hard, party hard...)


OH YEAH!!

Who is this clown? (2, Insightful)

Curtman (556920) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654635)

"If you really want to chat on IRC, use an IM such as Trillian instead."

Honestly, why would anyone want to use IRC in and instant messanger? Chatzilla is an IRC client as it should be.

file downloading (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3654639)

I tried downloading a largish file ~75 megs. It choked at 50 megs with mozilla 1.0 every time I tried. However the same file was easily downloaded with IE.

IE 6 gets a C too (4, Informative)

zmokhtar (539671) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654642)

Don't worry to much about the 7 out of 10. They gave IE 6 the same score [cnet.com] .

I wonder (1)

WetCat (558132) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654645)

Why every developer of web browser tries to tie mail client to it. Mail is more attracting as a extension of file manager.
As for Mozilla - it's rather impossible to install it without installing its monstrous mozilla-mail, which I'll never be using any more.

too many bugs for me (1, Troll)

hawkbug (94280) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654647)

I have submitted a few bugs here and there since I first started using Mozilla about 2 years ago. I tried on many different occaisions to use it as my primary email client and web browser on windows - but it just doesn't work for me for 5 reasons:

1) When switching between inboxes on different mail servers it forgets your last selected messages. This is annoying as hell when I have over 1000 messages in both my inboxes. I have reported this bug well over a year ago.

2) You're supposed to be able to type in a "nickname" of somebody in your addressbook just like good old netscape 4.7X when using the mail client. Well, sometimes Mozilla feels like auto completing the email address with the one in your address book, and other times it doesn't work. Annoying to say the least when trying to compose a message.

3) I have a laptop which has an ATI mobile graphics card in it (I'm not sure if this matters) running Windows 2000. When I open Mozilla up, I get little black evenly spaced dots or dashes at random across the URL bar. It only does this in windows, and apparently only on my laptop using the ATI card. I have the latest ATI drivers. This just looks awful, and makes it so I can't even read the URL. This has been the case for the last 2 years, and it ONLY does this with Mozilla, and no other application I have ever used.

4) Mozilla seems to render pages extremely slowly and choppy. What I mean is, if you take it to a page that has a huge select box on it inside a form with over 1000 entries that is showing multiple rows, say 10 for example, the browser freaks out and takes about 15 seconds on my machine to load it. It does some weird stuff in the mean time, like move the box width around, put scroll bars at strange points on the screen, etc.

5) My largest gripe by a mile with Mozilla has to be this - this is non-platform-specific. I've had this happen on Mac OS X, Red Hat Linux, and Windows 98, 2000, and XP. The first instance of the browser I open allows me to type in form fields and type in the URL bar. Open up a second instance of the browser, and you can't type anywhere. My mouse then becomes the only input I have with the screen. I have to completely close mozilla, mail client and all, and restart it to be able to type in the form fields and url bar again. WTF? Oh, and sometimes when I look in the task manager under windows after completely thinking I closed mozilla, I'll still see mozilla.exe running, and have to kill it from the process manager in windows 2000. I can't verify if this happens with a mac or linux, but I do have the typing problems there as well. Isn't this a major thing that other people should have noticed?

So, I'm not trying to rag on the mozilla developers since they are doing a great thing - I just think that these 5 bugs are very major, and should have been fixed well before version 1.0. In my opinion, those 5 things are completely holding Mozilla back from becoming widely used and accepted. I hope they get them fixed before version 1.1 or 2.0.

Surprised? (1)

kalidasa (577403) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654653)

I'd be shocked if they gave it anything higher. It's not a Microsoft product, ipso facto it can't be any good, in C|Net's eyes.

Make Mozilla Cooler in MacOS X 10.1.5 (5, Informative)

toupsie (88295) | more than 12 years ago | (#3654659)

Mozilla is nice on MacOS X but it does not take advantage of the Quartz type smoothing like OmniWeb or Chimera. However, if you install Unsanity's haxie program called Silk [unsanity.com] , it will allow Mozilla (or IE) to use the Quartz text smoothing along with your other Carbon apps. Well worth the download and it doesn't appear to slow down the system -- which I expected. With Quartz text smoothing, MacOS X becomes the most visually appealing, web browsing platform -- which it should be.
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