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What Is Public Domain?

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the and-such-small-portions dept.

Programming 282

whitefox writes: "The Seattle Times has an interesting article in today's edition on what is public domain. After sharing the experience one software writer had with businesses and people shying away from BitTorrent because they didn't understand the concept of 'public domain,' they take the reader on a tour of how public domain is being defined by groups such as Creative Commons and to the battle of copyright-extensions in Eldred v. Ashcroft."

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282 comments

ACs are fucking scum ! (-1)

L0rdkariya (562469) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687489)

FP !

Re:ACs are fucking scum ! (-1)

Sexual Asspussy (453406) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687566)

un-fucking-stoppable! you're a machine!

keep fighting the good but fundamentally lame fight!!

Re:ACs are fucking scum ! (-1)

L0rdkariya (562469) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687655)

It stems from a hatred of ACs. I can't really explain it. I think ACs are responsible for most of the terrorism in the modern era, though.

Re:ACs are fucking scum ! (-1)

neal n bob (531011) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687651)

clitastic! your ownership of first post is most impressive.

Re:ACs are fucking scum ! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687656)

What is the issue with Anonymous Coward? I don't get it. And what's up with your name, Lord Kariya? Is that like hockey player Paul Kariya? It's just kinda odd...

Re:ACs are fucking scum ! (1, Funny)

(CLiT)sdem (583477) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687779)

If you're looking for a good example of public domain, you need look no further than CmdrTaco's asshole.

Re:ACs are fucking scum ! (-1)

CLIT (581942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687843)

I agree with this post.

It also makes for good spelunking, I suppose.

beats me (-1, Offtopic)

Hall and Oates (575706) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687490)

First CLIT post!

Re:beats me (-1)

CLIT (581942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687785)

The CLIT appreiates your enthusiasm and support.

Keep up the effort to keep AC's away from FP's!

Softwar Assurance gives you open source! (-1)

IAgreeWithThisPost (550896) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687519)

Software Assurance Membership
February 27, 2002

Software Assurance Membership (SAM) is an integrated set of support services and benefits provided to all Enterprise Agreement customers and those Select License customers who have selected the SAM box for one or more product pools on their Select License enrollment. SAM is designed to reduce your costs across the entire product life cycle and to help you make the most of Microsoft® solutions. As Microsoft's relationship with your organization grows, SAM will provide you with customized service tailored to your environment, and help you use Microsoft software to your maximum advantage.

SAM Eligibility Requirements
SAM requires that all of your new license orders are purchased with Software Assurance (SA) for any product pool--Applications, Systems, or Servers--under your enrollment within the Select License. Qualified license holders include:

All new and current Enterprise Agreement (EA) customers.
Select License customers who have selected the Software Assurance Membership (SAM) box for one or more product pools on their Select License enrollment.
SAM Benefit Highlights
SAM participants receive all SA upgrade benefits for licenses enrolled in SA, plus additional benefits such as training, discounts, and partner services. Benefits include:

Training. Instructor-led IT training at a discount, or unique services from our enterprise training channel of nearly 100 Microsoft Certified Technical Education Centers (CTECs) in the U.S. and worldwide.
Partner services. Microsoft Gold Certified Partners will deliver unique service offerings such as technology architecture, implementation services, or discount pricing to SA members.
Windows 2000/Windows XP source code. SA members in the Systems Pool who have purchased at least 1,500 Microsoft Windows® operating system licenses under their Select License enrollment may be eligible to license approximately 95 percent of the Windows 2000/Windows XP source code at no additional fee. This will be offered in selected countries.
Windows Preinstallation Edition (WinPE). WinPE is offered to all SA members in the Systems Pool. It is a tool that can aid deployment, administration, and end-user productivity. WinPE is a version of Windows XP Professional that supports booting off of CD, DVD, PXE (network), or a hard disk drive. It provides a minimal Win32 subsystem for disk configuration, and launching of setup in the full Windows environment. This offering is designed to be used by large corporations to build their own custom deployment solutions.
Software discounts for your employees. The Microsoft Employee Purchase Program (MSEPP) offers exclusive Microsoft software, hardware, and Microsoft Press discounts to employees of SAM customers. MSEPP is designed to assist your employees in extending their workplace desktop to their home PC.

Obvious Headline (1)

peterdaly (123554) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687525)

"Setting online works free doesn't please everyone"

well, duh.

-Pete

Re:Obvious Headline (0, Offtopic)

brejc8 (223089) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687575)

Is it just me or is everyone nowdays trying to make money out of adverts on sig lines?

Come and see hot lego sex [man.ac.uk] . $5.95/month!

A few more of those... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687949)

well, duh.
Well, bash, groff, awk.

Part of copyright should be the right to not (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687538)

It's really that simple. A copyright holder should have the right to completely remove the copyright from their creation, and thus allow others to use it completely and freely without worry about any sort of licensing issues.

Re:Part of copyright should be the right to not (5, Insightful)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687553)

They do.

However, public domain is a larger issue than that, and a very important one. Copyright law was originally drafted for the express purpose of enhancing the public domain, not destroying it, as recent laws have done.

Re:Part of copyright should be the right to not (0, Redundant)

vladedivac (584956) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687998)

yeah, but how are you going to feel when you place, say, a photo out there completely copyright free for use by independent filmmakers, and some guy creates the next multi-million dollar box-office hit with your picture in every scene? ~vlade

Public Yoda? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687554)

Why, I thought this was one of the best scenes in the movie. All my life, I wanted to see Yoda as a real Jedi, rather than just a frail wise old master. This fight was what I have been waiting for from Star Wars for a long time. Finally, you understand that Yoda, although frail physically, has the ability to channel the Force in ways that no other Jedi can, at least as far as we have seen.

I don't think that the fight was in any way a detriment to the character, it actually just enhances his mystique. Besides, the irony of him finishing up bouncing off the walls, only to pick up his cane and hobble around again was *priceless*. What a fucking old green pussy. Hell, *I* could have kicked his wrinkled green....oh no! Yoda?! IEEEEEEE!

Wrong story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687702)

But if you had posted the same comment in this story [slashdot.org] within the first 6 minutes, you would have gotten (Score:5, Interesting) for it.

hidden message (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687576)

Go and sew your wild OATS, Everybody

GNU is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687582)

In a long-expected announcement [kerneltrap.org] , lead HURD developer Roland McGrath admitted, "We are no longer ... developing ... GNU Mach".

This comes as no surprise. The gartner group [gartner.com] predicted a .8 probability that GNU would close up shop within the next 5 years, citing widescale adoption of Windows 2k, as well as competing free licenses such as BSD, artistic, and public domain.

I expect GNU CEO Richard Stalin to resign under heavy pressure within the next 2 months.

the only real public domain: (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687603)

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

Re:the only real public domain: (5, Informative)

dinotrac (18304) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688086)

No. The GPL is expressly and explicitly not public domain.

The GPL grants a limited set of rights in exchange for a defined set of obligations. The copyright holder retains ownership.

Public domain grants nothing. The creator of a public domain work renounces all ownership or, by expiration of rights, loses ownership. Without ownership, you can not impose conditions.

That is what makes the public domain the only truly "free" province of Intellectual Property.

The GPL diverges from the public domain in order to insure certain behaviors that its drafters consider vital to the vitality of free software. They have placed limitations on some freedoms in order to protect others.

Some public domain charts (4, Insightful)

tiltowait (306189) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687604)

When works pass into the public domain [unc.edu]

Growth rate of the public domain [harvard.edu]

Not whoring, at 50, yadda yadda, just thought this may be useful

Re:Some public domain charts (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687846)

Here are some other charts, which might be easier to interpret since their axes are labeled and the models are explained:

"constant authorship per year" model [telepath.com]

"constant authorship per capita per year" model [telepath.com]

Re:Some public domain charts (1)

Neil Watson (60859) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688029)

That's fscking depressing.

great perl news! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687631)

I just read on the german linux site linux.de [linux.de] that former kernel hacker Dieter Von Ostrich has done the impossible - Backreferencing Deterministic regular expressions!

This is great news for perl -- tests with complex regex matching and replacing show a speedup up to 600%, and even simples regexes get a 5-10% boost. Larry Wall has indicated he may incorporate them into perl6, once support for excluded matching is added.

WTG!

MPAA definition of public domain. (3, Funny)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687642)

Anything we want to use is public domain. Anything that that MPAA members make never become public domain.


I wonder when the studios have filed a copyright on a movie, did they list the works that it was based on? If not, maybe some of the movie copyrights can be invalidated -- don't you love irony?

Re:MPAA definition of public domain. (1)

nmos (25822) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687674)

No that only works for patents.

Really? (1)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687721)

I remember in Mattel v. Miller when the attorney for the Miller's tried to have the copyright canceled, Mattel tried to have his ability to practice in Californa revoked.


If I remember correctly, the Miller's attorney argued that since Barbie was on Lili, and Mattel did not list Lili on the copyright application, then the copyright was invalid.

Re:Really? (1)

nmos (25822) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688059)

I looked around a fair bit but I couldn't find any real details on what the Millers' attorney actually argued nor anything about the actual outcome of the case. On the surface this really sounds more like a trademark case than copyright. I have to admit though I'm not sure how copyright works with phisical objects. Is taking a picture of a statue copyright infringment?

Re:MPAA definition of public domain. (1)

unicron (20286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687726)

I find that hard to believe. If I make a movie about a great story in space where some guy has the ability to use "The power" he ends up doing battle with someone named "Dark Power" who, it turns out, is the first guys father, I'm pretty sure I'm in a mountain of trouble. Even though I never referenced Star Wars/stole any names/stole any terms/ I'm still pretty sure I could get sued.

Most movies in some way are based on something else. It's rare you see a completely original idea(The Truman Show, The Matrix, etc.).

Matrix original? (2, Interesting)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687806)

It's rare you see a completely original idea (... The Matrix)

The Matrix was not entirely original. What it didn't borrow from Ghost in the Shell it borrowed from the Christian Bible [config.com] and East Asian wire-fu movies [logophilia.com] (CTHD's predecessors).

Re:Matrix original? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687967)

The Matrix also borrowed form Jean Baudrillard's Simulation and Simulacra [amazon.com]

Re:MPAA definition of public domain. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687820)

Neither The Truman Show nor The Matrix were completely original ideas.

Re:MPAA definition of public domain. (2)

(void*) (113680) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688017)

If I make a movie about a great story in space where some guy has the ability to use "The power" he ends up doing battle with someone named "Dark Power" who, it turns out, is the first guys father, I'm pretty sure I'm in a mountain of trouble.


You mean like this [imdb.com] ? Parodies are acceptable.

Mickey Mouse has fallen into PD despite Bono Act (5, Interesting)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687755)

If not, maybe some of the movie copyrights can be invalidated -- don't you love irony?

Lauren Vanpelt has done the math and found that Mickey Mouse has already fallen into the public domain [asu.edu] due to a faulty copyright notice. (Back then, "© 1929" wasn't enough; it had to be "© 1929 Walt Disney".)

Therefore, because there is a public domain DVD encrypted with CSS, and because the DMCA's circumvention ban (17 USC 1201 [cornell.edu] ) affects only "works protected under this title" (i.e. copyrighted works), DeCSS is now legal if marketed only to decrypt public domain content on DVDs (1201(a)(2); 1201(b)(1)). Good news for Charlie Chaplin DVD [amazon.com] collectors.


Sonny Bono hit that tree, the concept of a vibrant public domain died. [pineight.com]

Re:MPAA definition of public domain. (1)

URoRRuRRR (57117) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687867)

Not ture. Many movies such as "Suddenly, Meet John Doe" have been in the public domain for a while, most of the silent era stuff is too.

So says Ebert in his yil column.

turf wars (3, Insightful)

YanceyAI (192279) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687661)

"The Internet, once lauded as a frontier of freedom and a place for innovation to flourish, has become a battleground in an emerging war over who should own vast swaths of information and the next good idea." This is a nice summary, though I think it oversimplifies the kind of stuff we see from MS, ADTI, MCAA and RIAA.

Also, am I crazy or does BitTorrent sound very promising:

"With BitTorrent, clients automatically mirror files they download, making the publisher's burden almost nothing."

But won't this technology really push cable companies to penalize their customers for downloads?

Re:turf wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687742)

But won't this technology really push cable companies to penalize their customers for downloads?

In the best scenario, this means more sources, and thus the chances of a closer source (by hops, maybe even on your provider's network) is higher. This should reduce costs. At worst, it just spreads the cost around to more people and providers, which could still result in a savings all around.

Re:turf wars (1)

elmegil (12001) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687759)

It may sound promising, but in my experience it don't work for crap. I suppose I may be atypical in that I don't run Internet Exploder as a browser on my windows box, at all, so I haven't updated it in ages upon ages. But 1) Bit Torrent didn't work with netscape at all, and 2) when I tried to use it with Exploder it exploded.

How is this difficult? (2, Interesting)

Hygelac (11040) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687672)

I must be asleep today, but what is so difficult about defining Public Domain? It has to be the simplest form of copy(right|left|middle) there is. The article seemed to bounce all over the place trying to make the issue confusing, but I'm confused about the confusion. ???

Re:How is this difficult? (2)

scott1853 (194884) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687775)

Me too. Maybe it's just me, but if you have a problem with public domain because you can't figure out what it means, then maybe you're too stupid to use it, and people really shouldn't care if you do or don't.

Is there anything wrong with accepting that sometimes people are too stupid to do/understand something? Should anybody really waste time trying to educate them?

Re:How is this difficult? (1)

TheTrunkDr. (516695) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687893)

You'd be amazed at how some corporate types just don't get how some things are just free... free seems like a simple enough concept right?! if you want it, it's yours, simple right... well I remember at one of my old jobs, there was some talk about using linux for some server stuff, and it was decided they'd use it. Well the manager said "alright go out and buy it", we told the manager, "hey it's free we can download and install it." but the manager wanted a paper trail. so we said "alright give use some paper we'll write up a report or whatever." "A receipt" the manager said, "but it's free?!?!" "I'll write up a receipt for you" said one of the guys. "Look just go to the store and buy it guys!" the manager said... so finally we went and we purchased a copy of redhat and the manager was happy that money was spent. some people really just don't get the whole "it's free" when it comes to business stuff.

You answer your own question. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3688078)

what is so difficult about defining Public Domain?

You'd think that it would be simple, but EVEN YOU don't understand it, and you think you do!

It has to be the simplest form of copy(right|left|middle) there is.

This is the point. Public Domain is NOT a form of copyright. Public Domain is the opposite of copyright.

I'm confused about the confusion.

You're confused about much more than that.

I guess this is why the article exists - because even people who think they know what the Public Domain is don't have a clue.

You can't abandon cars or real property (2, Interesting)

coyote-san (38515) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687675)

Why does he think you can put code into the public domain?

You can't abandon a car, you'll eventually be tracked down and made to pay for proper disposal. Same thing with real property - you will be tracked down and hit with cleanup fees for any toxic wastes you left behind.

Is software really any different? Think about it - most software is of no lasting consequence, but some of it can cause a lot of damage (Microsoft Outlook Express, Microsoft IIS, others) before the producer may be tempted to just abandon it and (hopefully) all associated liabilities.

I know we usually compare source code to books, but as some Federal judges like to point out (while denying it the full protection of the First Amendment) it also has an active component. A cookbook can be put into the public domain, but a cookbook doesn't create a fire or health hazard as it attempts to prepare the meals it describes.

Maybe the people uncomfortable with truly public domain software are aware of something that we're missing....

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (0)

BenitoM (571442) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687720)

A cookbook can be put into the public domain, but a cookbook doesn't create a fire or health hazard as it attempts to prepare the meals it describes. Wanna bet? See this story [slashdot.org] A cookbook is a very dangerous thing

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (2, Insightful)

miked50 (466948) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687747)

A cookbook can be put into the public domain, but a cookbook doesn't create a fire or health hazard as it attempts to prepare the meals it describes.


Neither does sourcecode. Someone needs to execute it. Just as somone needs to execute the action of lighting a match/stove/house on fire. Yes bad things can happen, but don't blame the cookbook/sourcecode if you're not careful. It's about time users take responsibility for some of their actions. e.g. Burn down the house while cooking, it's your fault. Send a million viruses because you didn't install anti-virus/used MS Outlook, it's still your fault.

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687798)

Hey, are you comparing toxic waste to MS software? Hmmm, maybe that's *not* a bad comparison.

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (1)

intermodal (534361) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687805)

yes, but if i tell you, "i'm a big hairy ape", am i required to take responsibility for any damage this may have done to big hairy apes by associating their name with the dregs of society such as myself? do you even have to know my name to use the active component of this, which is associating my face with big, hairy apes? no. Speech has an active component just as code does. And I am not required in any way shape or form to put a license or copyright on the statement that I am a big hairy ape. Source code is protected as speech to at least a degree. Speech can cause just as much change in the human mind as a virus can in a computer. Look at Germany in WWII. If speech is protected, code should be protected and permitted to become public domain.

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687865)

WTF? You compare a program to toxic waste? You are not required to use a program you have the right to say no. You can't get away from poisoned water, you have to drink. You cannot compare intellectual property to real property! There are many songs that are traditional, meaning no one owns them and they are part of the public domain. Should the authors be hunted down and made to clean up the lyrics? An idea by itself, is harmless it's what you do with it. You have to actually load the software and run it for any harm to come, a virus being the obvious exception here. If you cut yourself using a steak knife is that ginsu's fault? It seems nobody wants to take any responsibility for their actions any more. Companies don't want to use software, unless they have somebody they can sue if their business model fails. Remember too, your life is not in danger from bad software unless it's powering your heart & lung machine. Any public domain software program would have the source code, not just binaries, anything else would be just a pirated copy. With the source code available, someone would eventually spot the error & correct it. And if you just grab any binary file off the internet and run it without some notion of the possible consequences, you deserve whatever harm comes to your files.

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (2)

SanLouBlues (245548) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687877)

If you own a forest, somebody wanders into it, gets lost and dies is it your fault?
If I right a bs malloc library that occasionally wipes boot sectors and don't force it upon others is it my fault?
And if I abandon my car in my backyard (yes I have a broken down car in my backyard, yes front yards are different) I will not be forced to dispose of it. If I abandon it on a highway I'm imposing upon the owner of the highway. If I give out information I impose upon nobody. That's why apocalyptic visionaries can roam the streets with foreboding sandwich-boards, but yelling fire in a theatre is illegal. Offering vs. forcing.

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (1)

e.a.kendrick (323575) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688080)


One of our local councils in the UK owned a disused quarry. It had filled with water which was very shallow at some points. People often trespassed onto the land and swam in the water. One chap dived off the top of the quarry into a shallow part of the water, thereby breaking his neck. Said UK council was successfully sued for owning the quarry and not fully enclosing it so no-one could enter - they had limited fencing and private property signs (say, some error checking and an EULA).

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (2)

Bouncings (55215) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687884)

To dispose of a car or a house, you have to fire up big machinery, compress the car, buldoze the house, and recycle the raw materials. To dispose of information, you hit the delete button and save yourself $0.25 in storage space.

That's why.

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (1)

beleg777 (551987) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687902)

You can't abandon a car, you'll eventually be tracked down and made to pay for proper disposal. Same thing with real property - you will be tracked down and hit with cleanup fees for any toxic wastes you left behind.

That's completely besides the point. Software doesn't have a "pulic" existance. If no one in particular is currently holding on to it then it ceases to exist. You can't dump you code on the street, you delete it.

A more appropriate question is are you allowed to give away your car? Software that has been put into the pulic domain is essentially software that you are offering to give away. The only real difference is that you don't cease to have the software after giving it away, which there is no real world analogy for. And that makes sense, because source code is knowledge, not property. Treating it like property is just imposing a foreign set of rules on it because we don't know how to treat knowlege that requires work to produce.

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (2)

startled (144833) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687918)

"You can't abandon a car, you'll eventually be tracked down and made to pay for proper disposal. Same thing with real property - you will be tracked down and hit with cleanup fees for any toxic wastes you left behind."

Yes, but I won't be hit with disposal fees if I park my car in my garage. If I leave it in the middle of the street, I will-- but guess what, I don't own the street, and nobody told me I could leave it there indefinitely. If I left the car in some guy's driveway without asking him, he'd have it towed. If I ask my friend if I can leave my car in his garage indefinitely, and he says yes and I do so, that's entirely permissable (and I would be quite shocked if someone tracked me down for disposal fees!).

Similarly, if I break into some guy's server and start offering my source code, he's going to be understandably pissed, and I'll probably be prosecuted. But if I put it up on my server, or someone else's server with permission, that's perfectly fine.

We're quite fucked if it becomes illegal to make source code freely available. If you offer a beginner's C++ tutorial on your site, do you need to have people accept a EULA and/or pay you money if they want to see the "Hello, world" example?

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (2)

curunir (98273) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687986)

Your analogy to cars isn't quite right...we're talking about the creator of the software not the end user. When a car is abandoned, they go after the owner of the car, not the manufacturer. Toyota has no liability for one of their cars that becomes abandoned. The sofware author is the car manufacturer in your analogy, not the car's owner.

Re:You can't abandon cars or real property (2)

MrResistor (120588) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688030)

You can't abandon a car, you'll eventually be tracked down and made to pay for proper disposal.

Not true. I've abandoned my share of cars, and I've never been tracked down and made to pay for it. Why? Because cars are disposed of by junkyards, and junkyards make their money by selling peoples abandoned junk. The city calls up the junkyard and says "Hey, there's an abandoned car over here. Could you please haul it away?" The junkyard sends out it's truck, brings it back to the yard, pulls parts it can sell, crushes the rest to sell as scrap metal.

As far as your real property example, you wouldn't be tracked down for abandoning the property, you'd be tracked down for illegally disposing of toxic waste.

Unless you are comparing software to toxic waste, I don't see how either of these examples has any bearing at all on software.

A better example would be if I write a short story, don't copyright it, and leave copies at various coffee shops. I'm perfectly within my rights to do that. The coffee shop owner might be annoyed at having something else to throw away, but that's the most harm that would possibly be done. People could sit down and read it with their cup of coffee, take it with them when they leave, make copies of it for their friends, put it in an anthology they're putting together, put their own name on it, rewrite it, whatever.

Maybe it's pornographic, or contains dangerous, subversive ideas, but that's the chance you take when you pick up some random peice of paper and start reading it. At least with code you (should) have the opportunity to check it out (by looking at the source code) before it has an opportunity to do damage. Anybody using public domain software where they can't look at the source is a fool, anyway, on the order of someone who goes spelunking without a flashlight.

What is public domain? (1)

sheepab (461960) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687686)

Why...its something like public.com of coarse!!!
Sheesh, you slashdotters are so computer illiterate.

Re:What is public domain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687944)

That's the .com domain.

It'd be .public

Public domain is the natural state of expression (2, Informative)

uncoveror (570620) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687687)

An idea, once expressed belongs to the world, aka, the public domain. Copyright was invented as a way to temporarily allow creative people to profit from expressing their ideas in writing, song, etc. Unfortunately, copyright has become a nearly permanent thing to enrich greedy corporate robber barons at the expense of the public domain, which soon may be a footnote in history Hollywood, the RIAA et al are trying to convince legislators that copyright is a natural right. I sure hope we can stop them, but since we can't grease palms the way the corporations do, it won't be easy.
http://www.dontbuycds.org
http://www.uncov eror.com/radio.htm

FUCK THE RIAA!!! (-1)

GaylordFucker (465080) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687693)

Hillary Rosen is a stupid, hypocritical bitch!!

Confusion should be no real surprise. (1)

kafka93 (243640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687694)

That there are a number of definitions isn't surprising: different people have different definitions of "freedom". The arguments between the GPL and BSD license crowds should serve as enough evidence of that. "Freedom" is a fairly nebulous concept -- if someone's free to use something, are they free to redistribute it? To license it under new terms? To sell it? There's a whole spate of issues involved with making something 'free', and as a result people have wildly different beliefs and expectations as to what their rights are, or should be, when it comes to software.

As a result, of course, the namespace is massively polluted -- the old, already confusing terms of "freeware", "shareware", etc. have been superseded by a plethora of different licenses and different ideals. But that's how life is. The other issue hinted at by the article, though, is quite interesting, and is one often confronted by the (GNU) 'free software' people: there's a preconception that something which is free must necessarily be lower quality, or there must be a 'hidden catch'. It's a very sad thing that people nowadays *expect* to have their freedom restricted; the article is correct when it says that people don't know what to do with their freedom. And, as we see on an increasingly frequent basis, some people are so brainwashed into this way of thinking that they begin to believe that freedom is an intrinsically bad, evil, "viral" thing.

Although RMS is often mocked, one of the great things about the GPL is that it quantifies, in very tangible, legalese-friendly terms, exactly *what it means*. It's put down in fairly clear terms, which can be debated on their own merits but which can be understood by anyone who bothers to spend the time. This serves to specify exactly what's meant by 'freedom' and, arguably equally importantly, it thus provides assistance and reassurance to companies and individuals who might otherwise have legal concerns with using and promoting such 'free software'.

Public Domain (4, Insightful)

Craig Maloney (1104) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687695)

I think I heard about this "Public Domain". It only applies to things that were created before the 20th Century, right? :)

I like this guy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687714)

From his resume:

Computer Interests:

Usability

I hate computers. I have a dream of them being nice to work with some day.

read Digital Copyright (5, Informative)

bluGill (862) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687735)

Jessica Litman [wayne.edu] wrote an excellent book Digital Copyright, which I recomend everyone read.

In the book she references a discussion of copyright lawyers, many of whom hold the opinion that it is not legally possibla to place works in the public domain.

Re:read Digital Copyright (2)

RickHunter (103108) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688062)

Err... Why is it not legally possible to place works in the public domain? I don't think the legal concept of a public domain has been disposed of (though its now impossible for a work to enter it naturally), so why can't I (as a copyright holder) just say "This work is in the public domain"? After all, I own the copyright, don't I? Or do large American media corporations wnat to take that away too?

public domain vs copyright (5, Interesting)

reverse flow reactor (316530) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687739)

The problem with copyright is that is tries to accomplish two things: control distribution and maintain authenticity. These two goals need to be split up so that creative persons may choose to limit one or the other, or both, or neither.

For example, this post. I can care less how much this post is distributed. However, I do care that when it is distributed, it is distributed in verbatum, and that I am not bein misrepresented. I want to be able to control the authenticity of a work (to protect myself from libel and misrepresentation and plagarism, and to allow myself to receive credit for first stating an idea), but I do not want to inhibit the discussion or distribution of this post.

Another example - the ideal academic journal would allow me to maintain authenticity of my writings (so I can be credited with a discovery or recognised as an authority on a topic based on my work), but place no restrictions on the distribution of my academic publications. That way, more people can hear about my ideas and comment on them and build on them and apply those ideas.

Another example - a composer could write a song. Authenticity rights are granted. Distribution rights (or time-limited exclusive commercial distribution) are negotiated with a corporation willing to print CD's and ship them to stores around the world.

Maybe these are just rambling - post your comments below

It's hard to convince people (3, Funny)

Henry V .009 (518000) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687743)

I've been trying to convince the guy who owns the Chevrolet dealership across town that all his vehicles should be public domain, no go yet.

But seriously, copyright is a monopoly granted by the government in order to get people to spend the effort needed to create. Giving away copyrighted stuff to the public domain is charity. Simply charity. The entire free software system is built on the charity of a relatively few hardworking individuals. And while it's not problematic to make a living by leeching off of charity, it's damn hard to do it by provinding the stuff.

Re:It's hard to convince people (2)

peddrenth (575761) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687968)

You what? Do you have no clue whatsoever what copyright law represents?

Everything becomes public domain - that is the default state of ANY information. Copyright law exists to make even more stuff public-domain, simply by giving authors an incentive to write more.

Of course, current US copyright laws don't say that, but then current US copyright laws are illegal. Derive what you like from them, it'll still be wrong.

Secondly, writing something without copyright attached is not "charity" any more than owning a home and not shooting any who approach it is "charity" -- copyright is a gift by the law which an author only need take if they intend to use their monopoly on distribution by attacking others who distribute it.

Thirdly, if you think free software is about charity, I suggest you keep the hell away from free software until you understand it, rather than insulting us with your crippled opinions. People who write free software do not do so out of mercy for those who use it.

Lastly, free software does not exist to provide jobs, it does not exist to provide money, it exists to provide software. If you want a job rehashing the same shit over and over again, go ask microsoft. If you just want the software, programmed once by a handful of people, and left as-is because it already works, that's what free software does. We are not a sweat-shop, we do not exist 'to provide jobs'.

Public Domain is too free for most creative works (4, Interesting)

jcsehak (559709) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687745)

While it may be fine for a piece of code, putting a creative work like a song in the public domain can be dangerous. When I first started releasing my music, I wanted to make it free for people to listen to, copy and change. But I realised: what if the KKK made a propaganda video and wanted to use a song of mine in the soundtrack? If my work was PD, or even released under the EFF's Open Audio License [eff.org] , they'd be able to. Open source purists might argue that people should be allowed to use free work for good and for evil, and that may be alright when your work is an app that converts mp3s to oggs, but with music it's not that simple. If a song of mine was used in a KKK video, not only would it compromise the artisitic integrity of the song, but it would ruin the experience for anyone who heard it first alongside the video. More importantly, my reputation would be shot to hell, because it would be an easy matter for people to assume that I worked alongside the KKK for this project.

Another issue I have is that if I put my songs into the public domain, and Sting, for instance, hears them and likes them (work with me here, it *could* happen), there's nothing to stop him from rerecording them as his own work. Then when I play my own song later on down the road, people would say "Hey, that's a Sting song!" Not only that, but Sting would be free to copyright them, so I would have to get his permission before releasing an album of my own songs! For these reasons, when I wrote the Open Sourse Music License [rootrecords.org] , I kept it as close to the GPL as possible, but included a term to prevent people from displaying a song alonside accompanying video without the author's permission. I was hesitant to include it, but I don't think I had any other choice. If anyone else has any better ideas, let me know.

I fully applaud the Creative Commons, and everything they're doing with it, but for many people releasing your works into the PD can cause a lot more problems than it will solve.

Do NOT convert mp3s to oggs! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687815)

They are both lossy formats. Each encoder will introduce errors and you'll end up with horrible encodings. It doesn't matter if you go ogg -> mp3 or mp3 -> ogg. Either way, it's lossy -> lossy.

Only use a lossless original for a source. In very very very limited cases, you might be able to use a high quality lossy copy, but in general, do NOT do this! If people download oggs which were made from mp3s, they'll come away thinking ogg encoding sucks.

Re:Do NOT convert mp3s to oggs! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687913)

Of course. I just made up a random example for the purposes of my argument. Thanks for making sure I didn't unintentionally mislead people into making crappy-sounding oggs though!

Re:Public Domain is too free for most creative wor (2)

kin_korn_karn (466864) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688028)

I think you gave up all hope of artistic integrity when you allowed people to take your music and remix it and manipulate it even as audio. Once the notes are out of order it's not your vision any more, it's just a blob of media and nobody respects it.

Copyright PROTECTS artistic integrity. It's a horrible thing when this is abused, but hell, I'm a musician, and I don't want anyone chopping my stuff up and making it into their own statement. It's MY statement, not theirs. They can go write something of their own if they have something to say.

What if I went to the city art museum and decided to chop up one of the Picassos and rearrange it because I thought it looked better?

Mozilla users read this about important bug fix!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687754)

mozilla hotfix [adeliesolutions.com]

Mod parent down! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687837)

Too bad my Windows machine is so crash-proof and unaffected by this... but the poor linux users shouldn't accidentally click that.

simple/difficult (1)

intermodal (534361) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687758)

Simple part: public domain = belongs to nobody, cannot be owned, but can be used in any way shape or form by anybody. Difficult part: copyrighted works passing by law into public domain (not willingly) Unfortunately, at the present rate of things, it won't matter for me, because i'll be dead before anything made after the year 1900 becomes public domain...unless of course something gets done about it...

Re:simple/difficult (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687844)

If a work passes into public domain by law, the author has been dead for decades, and his/her body has already decomposed many times over. They don't care either way at that point, so describing their works passing into public domain as happening "not willingly" is... something of a stretch.

Private property rights in US/UK (1)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688040)

the author has been dead for decades, and his/her body has already decomposed many times over. They don't care either way at that point

Part of the common-law concept of private property includes the right to exert control of your property even after you have died, through a "last will and testament." And yes, estates are generally greedier than living authors. (Not that I'm claiming copyrights are property or anything.)

the battle (-1)

foodb4nk (563115) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687761)

seattlewireless.org VS seattlewireless.com . Welcome to the world of non-profit organizations to go to war with a profit company. Lets hope one of them come out on top so that way BIONGO or other big dogs dont take control just quite yet. Its all about the benjamins ~pdiddy said best so let the battle continue on. It is to bad that seattlewireless.org didnt go for profit and make something out of themsleves cause i see that company expanding if they use it properly. seattlewireless.com i have no idea quite yet cause they are new to the area. But i can tell you one thing...>>>they already have my addy and resume for future hotspots or one hell of a WLAN specialist.

Not all bad. (1)

NickRob (575331) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687774)

There are SOME instances where copyright extension works out. Shouldn't Peter Pan have become public domain? I think it's been long enough. Instead every production of Peter Pan pays royalties to an English Children's hospital. You really can't argue against extending that copyright.

More about GOSH's perpetual copyright on Peter Pan (2)

yerricde (125198) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687899)

Shouldn't Peter Pan have become public domain? I think it's been long enough. Instead every production of Peter Pan pays royalties to an English Children's hospital.

Here's some more information [wikipedia.com] on the perpetual copyright on J. M. Barrie's Peter Pan. This copyright is subject to compulsory licensing; royalties go to Great Ormond Street Hospital [gosh.org] . Disney will get a dose of its own medicine when it tries to release Return to Never Land on DVD in Region 2.

This applies only in the United Kingdom. Such a literal perpetual copyright cannot happen in the United States because of the "limited times" clause in the Constitution, Article I, section 8, clause 8. However, this does not stop Congress from declaring: "Resolved, That it is the policy of the Congress of the United States to enact a twenty (20)-year copyright term extension every twenty (20) years," unless Eldred [eldred.cc] convinces the Supremes otherwise.

Yes, you can. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687906)

A handful of examples where a longer copyright helps some noble cause doesn't mean all copyrights should be extended. The money paid to all these extended copyright holders could've gone to charities in far greater amounts if it hadn't been collected by all the copyright holders. But, we'll never know, since people weren't given that option.

Re:Not all bad. (2, Insightful)

jguthrie (57467) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687993)

Actually, yes I can argue against extending that copyright, if it means that I have to extend the copyright of all works of similar vintage.

The problem with the current system is that copyright law serves to un-publish works. You can't make copies of a work because it's protected by copyright, but it's out of print because the publisher (and, make no mistake, the publisher has all of the rights in the current system) has decided that the market for that work isn't large enough to be able to keep it in print.

Working against that are examples of very long-lived works such as To Kill A Mockingbird or "Peter Pan". The vast majority of all works don't have nearly the longevity of "Peter Pan". So, extending the copyright for all of those works simply because one of those works might be continuously in print for many decades leads to works that are long forgotten. We are basically destroying our cultural heritage by not allowing works to fall into the public domain.

The suggestion I once made, that copyright holders be required to periodically pay for copyright in order to keep it, was met with cries that I was trying to prevent people from becoming authors and that I was trying to starve current authors' grandchildren. This idea would allow works like "Peter Pan" to stay in copyright basically forever, (meaning "until the fees aren't paid,") and still become public domain as soon as interest flags sufficiently for it to fall out of print.

The only part of my idea that I have trouble defending is the fact that I'm spending a lot of time thinking about making sure that people can still have access to works that they didn't care enough about when they were first published to keep them in print. Why should anyone care about a zillion B-movies that no one is ever going to re-release?

what's so difficult (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687788)

To me, public domain is just that simple. You're taking a piece of work you did and releasing it to "common knowledge". In the process of doing so, you release ALL rights to such knowledge, even the right to claim "hey, that's my work". If you're a programmer that's bent on signing your name to everything, then you better go GPL or some other bragware license. Giving to public domain is sharing knowledge. There's no reward other than getting a warm fuzzy about giving. If someone was to take a public domain piece of work and sell it for profit, then more power to them. I don't feel sorry for the programmer contributing the free work, I just feel sorry for the poor fool that "buys" public domain knowledge. By the way, it's implied that no warrenty comes with public domain. If there's no one to claim fame, then there's no one to blame. It's common sense, do we really need to write crap like that into law?

public domain fears? (1)

qorkfiend (550713) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687796)

People are wary of the GPL and the public domain - the GPL in particular - because a) it's not backed by anyone, except the programmer, and b) they think there's a catch. Nothing for nothing, the saying goes. Except, under the GPL, you essentially get something for nothing, and to most people, especially businesses, this seems a bit off. It's all because of what people are used to.

The new addition to the public domain from the Internet is the dissemination of knowledge and information. Now, anything published under the GPL and public domain can be can be retreived very quickly and very efficiently - and people are wary.

"Hi, I'm a programmer. Take this, I've spent a year working on it."
"Who are you?"
"A programmer."
"Who do you work for?"
"Uh, no one, I did this myself."
"And you're giving it to me?"
"Yes."
"For free?"
"Yes."

I know I'd be wary if someone walked up to me and offered me some new piece of technology for free. Especially if no one was standing there to say "Oh yeah, I've seen that, and it works great!"

Paying money makes you feel more secure? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687876)

If it costs money, then you'd feel better?

"Hi, I'm a software salesperson. Buy this, it is good."
"Who are you?"
"A salesman."
"Who do you work for?"
"Uh, a company."
"How much does it cost?"
"$99.95"
"Is there a money-back guarantee?"
"Yes."

So clearly, something that costs money, and offers to give money back if you don't like it is better than something that doesn't cost money and thus has no money-back guarantee?

Yes. Psychologically speaking... (2)

MenTaLguY (5483) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688043)

Yes. At least that's the way human psychology works.

We generally assume (it's a survival thing) that nobody acts out of pure altruism.

In the case of the $99.95, the guy is apparently being upfront about his motivations (what he gains from this exchange).

Okay, he might run off and you'll be out $99.95, but he isn't showing any immediate signs of having something more insidious in mind.

The other guy giving stuff away for free, on the other hand, seems to be hiding his true motivations (what he stands to gain) from you.

"What?" "Nothing." "Really?" "You want nothing in exchange?" "I want nothing in exchange." "...REALLY?" "Yes!" "Are you sure...?" "YES!" "Uh... yeah. I ... have to go now..."

We instinctively interpret evasiveness about motivations as a danger signal. We should. It's an important survival mechanism.

If you ever plan on giving away something for free, be darn sure you're either doing this in a subculture where it is normal (and thus there is a reasonable expectation of eventual reciprocation from the group -- e.g. open source circles), or be VERY clear about your motivations up front.

I submit this white powder for your opinion.

Re:public domain fears? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687888)

people are just as wary of MS software too now. No one backs support on that copy of win98. Yes some free resources are available. same as most software of any license. but i cant just call up Microsoft as ask why something is crashing. Unless I pay $35. but i could pay for support for my Open source software to.

software by itself is not very good. (2)

Steveftoth (78419) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687956)

Any random piece of software built today is not very useful without someone who knows how it works. You need insurance on it basically, insurance to update it if there are bugs found, updates to it when the hardware changes, etc. Now, PD software may be free, but you are not getting any insurance from whomever whote it for free. That's why you should be paying for software, for the insurance that someone will update the software for the next generation of technology.

Of course, that falls apart if you don't ever update your technology. Then you don't need new software.

Re:software by itself is not very good. (2)

(void*) (113680) | more than 12 years ago | (#3688051)

That's why you should be paying for software, for the insurance that someone will update the software for the next generation of technology.


To put it explicitly, you should be paying someone to maintaining that software that you rely on. You can choose not to, but then in that case, do it yourself.

Current BitTorrent license (5, Informative)

bramcohen (567675) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687804)

BitTorrent [bitconjurer.org] (which I'm the author of) is currently released under the MIT license. There is a single file in it which is LGPL - if anyone who knows Python hasn't read the code yet and would like to help clean-room that one file I would much appreciate it.

Thankfully, I haven't gotten a single piece of mail pestering me about the license since I switched away from public domain, even though MIT is almost as permissive.

I did do one slightly controversial thing - I capitalized the legal discraimer properly. Usually it's all caps, which I think is ugly and pointless. I did leave the part where it says "AS IS" in caps though.

BitTorrent development, by the way, is proceeding apace. The first mature release, with a finalized protocol and no phoning home on startup to make sure it's still a current version, will probably be released within the next few weeks.

I LOVE IT WIDE! (-1)

CLIT (581942) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687809)

Providing coverage for Klerck and CmderTaco!

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Which license? (1)

TimFreeman (466789) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687863)

The Seattle Times [nwsource.com] link says he put his code into the public domain, but the freshmeat [freshmeat.net] link says the code is subject to the MIT/X consortium license. So what's the issue here?

Re:Which license? (1)

bramcohen (567675) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687958)

It used to be public domain, now it's MIT.

You could go use an old version as a public domain thing if you really wanted to, although those versions are quite immature.

"Public Domain" too dangerous (5, Interesting)

tlambert (566799) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687880)

I would put most of my source code in the Public Domain, if I could.

I can't.

Not "I won't".

I *can't*.

My problem is that, without a license, I can't attach a "hold harmless", or prevent my name being used to sell code derived from it, but of which I personally would not approve.

So to keep rights to my good name, and protect myself (as much as possible) from litigation arising from the use of my gifts to the public, I have to attach the minimum possible license that still gets me these things (the BSD license).

It's not that I *want* to do this, it's that there are no implicit legal protections for the authors of works placed into the public domain.

Without such legal protections, I simply can't *afford* to make the gifts that I want to make to the public.

It's just too dangerous.

-- Terry

Bit Torrent (2, Interesting)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687887)

No offense, but I can see why people would shy away from supporting a product that causes the end user to support the distribution medium of the company in terms of server bandwidth. Not only is is quite possibly a good way to spread viruses, but also it puts undue burden on the customer.

If I had to chose between Visio and Rational Rose (ick on both), but Rational required me to mirror their software on my machine as a distribution medium, I would go with Visio.

Re:Bit Torrent (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3687943)

If it means you get what you want downloaded faster (both in speed and in queue length), then many people would make this sacrifice. More sources = faster downloads. This provides more sources for popular downloads.

Seattle Times (0, Flamebait)

mericet (550554) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687890)

Seattle - Remember who is their likely audience, MS workers, their families...

First Linux is Dying Post (-1)

Stock Quote Troll (583080) | more than 12 years ago | (#3687912)

The following information wanted to be free:

Pro-Linux Stock Slip During Heavy Trading
It is obvious GNU/Linux is causing more economic problems as seen by VA Linux (LNUX), a pro-linux company, their stock is currently down 0.08. An analyst on the street must have seen RMS recently making the open sores community look even worse. It looks like the street has lost confidence in RedHat (RHAT). It is down 0.08. Manufacturing activity grew for a fourth straight month last month , and at a faster pace than the previous month, signs that recovery in the battered sector is gaining strength, an industry group reported today. The report suggests that several leading manufacturing firms removed Linux. They replaced Linux with the more stable and robust Microsoft Windows 2000. This pushed shares of the pro-linux company International Business Machines (IBM) down 1.03.
Another Good Day for America
Luckily Microsoft (MSFT) is up by 1.843. This is obviously good for the economy and our country. Microsoft obviously is against all open sores software and is being rewarded for it's choices.

Deja Vu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3688082)


I knew I had seen this somewhere before; "today's issue" is actually Monday's issue.

There's nothing wrong, really, with two-day-old news... but don't claim that it's fresh.
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