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330 comments

Frist prost! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3735893)

FP bitches!

u r teh sux (-1)

News For Turds (580751) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736007)

I hereby claim this FP in the name of the CLIT. ACs have no rights, therefore all posts by ACs are null and void.


Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard
v 02.00

Table of Contents
1. Overview
2. DHCP
3. DNS
4. IP Address Support
5. Suggest IP Address (Autonet)
6. NetWare Support
a. Supported Versions
b. NDS Multiple Tree Support
c. NetWare 5 Support
d. No Novell Print Path
e. No NDS volumes
f. Support for NDS localities
7. Device Discovery
a. Gateway
b. Multi-homed Machines
c. 0.0.0.0 IP Addresses
d. Class A Subnet Masks
8. Driver Support
a. License Acceptance
b. Have Disk Support
c. HP Driver Updates
9. IPX Port Monitor and Data Corruption
10. Printer Names
11. Printer Share Name
12. Error Messages
13. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows 95/98
14. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows NT 4.0

1. Overview
This Read Me file contains last-minute product information for the Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard for Windows 95/ 98 and Windows NT.

2. DHCP
If you try to change just the subnet mask on an HP JetDirect print server that has
been configured via DHCP, you will get an error message while using the Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard. Once a JetDirect print server has been manually
configured, it will store the IP address, subnet mask and default gateway statically
instead of trying to obtain them dynamically. Allowing a static change only to the
subnet mask would cause DHCP-configured IP conflicts in the future. For more information
on this subject, see the HP JetDirect documentation.

3. DNS
In a DNS environment, the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard will
automatically set up the port with the host name rather than the IP address. If you have
a DNS environment that allows Host lookup by IP, but not the reverse lookup, the printer
will never print a page. We consider this environment to be an invalid DNS environment.
To fix the port without changing the DNS environment, view Properties for the printer.
Select the ports tab. Select the port that is in use for that printer. Click Configure
Port. Change the host name to the correct IP address.

4. IP Address Support
Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard do not support class D IP address. Class D IP
addresses are those addresses with the form of 224.xx.yy.zz

All addresses of the form 127.xx.yy.zz are reserved for loopback testing. They are not valid IP
to be used to configure device on the network.

5. Suggest IP Address (Autonet)
The algorithm for obtaining the IP address for the "Suggest Settings..." button is
derived from the Internet Draft DHC-IPV4-AUTOCONFIG by R. Troll entitled "Automatically
Choosing an IP Address in an Ad-Hoc IPv4 Network". The algorithm for generating the IP
address is to randomly generate an address in the 169.254.x.x reserved address range,
then determine if it is in use on the network. If it is in use, generate another address
in the range. Repeat until an address is generated that is not in use. The resulting
address is not intended for use on the Internet. Microsoft uses a similar scheme for
determining an IP address on Windows 98 and Windows 2000 when the system is in an environment
that doesn't have a DHCP or bootp server, and the system is configured to dynamically
determine and IP address.

6. NetWare Support
a. Supported Versions
The supported versions of NetWare are: 3.11, 3.12, 3.2, 4.11, 4.2. For Novell
queue creation, you must be logged into a Novell bindery or NDS server using a Novell
supplied client requester. See www.novell.com for client updates.
b. NDS Multiple Tree Support
The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard only provides support for the NDS
tree the user is currently logged into. If a different tree is desired you must quit
the application, change your login to the desired tree and rerun the application.
c. NetWare 5.0 Support
If NetWare 5 is configured for IPX, and an IPX connection is being used on the client,
the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard can be used to create an NDS print
queue. If NetWare 5 is configured for TCP/IP and a TCP/IP connection is being used on
the client, the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard can be used to create
an IP print path. If the client on which the application is being run has an IPX
connection to the NetWare 5 server, and the client is logged in, an NDS queue server
print path will be recommended. If IPX is not in use but TCP/IP is, a TCP/IP print
path will be recommended. In order to create NDS queues, an IPX connection with a
login must be present.
d. No Novell Print Path
The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard relies upon several DLLs that ship
with the Novell Client for 95 and NT. The application will look for these DLLs and
the associated entry points within them. If any of the necessary DLLs are missing,
or if they do not have the needed entry points (perhaps an old version), a Novell
print path will not be available although other supported print paths will be. If a
Novell print path is not available when you think one should be, try upgrading your
Novell client software to a newer version.

e. No NDS volumes shown in NetWare 4.11
There is a known problem reading the list of available NDS volumes in NetWare 4.11 with
service pack prior to version 7. This problem has been seen in cases were the user
logs into an NDS context that is at a lower level than the available volumes. The solution
is to install the NetWare 4 Support Pack 7 or upgrade to NetWare 4.2.

f. Support for NDS localities
The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard cannot recognize localities in the
NDS context.

7. Device Discovery
a. Gateway
Discovery performance will be very slow if your client PC does not have a gateway
configured. To configure a gateway, choose "Network" in the Control Panel, and then
look at Properties for the TCP/IP protocol. An input should appear for entering a
gateway address. See the online help for a more information on TCP/IP and gateways.
b. Multi-homed Machines
Multi-homed machines are not supported. In a multi-homed machine, it is not possible
to distinguish between multiple devices with the same IP address. A multi-homed
machine is a computer with more than one network connection. It is possible for two
or more devices on different networks to have the same IP address. A multi-homed
machine would see both devices and there would be no guarantee that you are
configuring the correct device. In this case, either disable all but the correct
network card, or configure the HP JetDirect print server from another PC that is on
the correct network and has only one network card. This problem may also occur on
PCs that contains both a network card and a dial-up adapter.
c. 0.0.0.0 IP Addresses
Assuming that an IP address is not assigned, a JetDirect-connected printer will have
an IP address of "0.0.0.0" for approximately 2 minutes after a factory reset. After
2 minutes the IP address will automatically be assigned "192.0.0.192". Attempts to
configure a "0.0.0.0" device through an IP print path will fail. You must wait until
the HP JetDirect device has a non-zero IP address before attempting to configure it.
d. Class A Subnet Masks
If the machine running the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard has an IP
subnet mask of "255.0.0.0" (which is known as a "Class A" subnet mask), device
discovery will suffer a significant performance degradation. To improve discovery
performance you must change your subnet mask to a non-Class A subnet mask.

8. Driver Support
a. License Support
Some drivers require the acceptance of a license. When installing a driver, if a
dialog appears that requests acceptance of a license, you must approve the license
before the application will continue. Failure to approve the license will result in
the application hanging.
b. Have Disk Support
To support new printers or drivers, the "Have Disk" button can be utilized during
driver installation. For the "Have Disk" functionality to work, the media must
contain an "inf" file (e.g. filename.inf). Some driver updates available on the
World Wide Web are in the form of self-extracting archives and are not in a format
that "Have Disk" can utilize. In this case, install the driver before running the
Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard.
c. HP Driver Updates
Hewlett-Packard driver updates can be found on the World Wide Web at:
www.hp.com/go/support
NOTE: This URL is subject to change.

9. IPX Port Monitor and Data Corruption
Some printers may experience data corruption when used with the Hewlett-Packard IPX
Port monitor under Windows NT. These errors may be corrected either by installing an
appropriate hot fix for NT or by installing Service Pack 4 from Microsoft.

10. Printer Names
When naming a printer within the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard you
must enter a name in English that conforms to the Microsoft Printer Naming rules
(i.e. what would be accepted in the Microsoft Add Printer wizard). If a localized name
is required, assign the printer name in English and finish the install. Then open the
printer folder from the Control Panel and select the desired printer. Select "Rename"
from the File menu and rename the printer with a localized name.

11. Printer Share Name
Spaces are not allowed for naming printer shared name.

12. Error Messages
Error writing to for : The system cannot write to the specified file.

This error message may appear when attempting to print a test page or during regular
use. It usually means the printer is out of paper or unavailable. Check the printer
and make sure it is plugged in, has paper, etc. If you were running the Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard when this occurred, there is no need to rerun the
application. Simply locate the printer in the printer folder and right mouse click on
it. Choose "Properties" and select to print a test page. If you have corrected the
error condition, a test page should now print.

Driver cannot install. Must run printer's setup program.

When installing certain HP printers (see tables below under #11 and #12), the Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard may not be able to install the driver. You will receive an
error message stating that you need to run the printer's setup program. The Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard may create the printer in the printer's folder despite this error.
The installed printer will not function properly. After the wizard exits, run the setup
program that comes with the printer. You may have to identify the printer as existing on a
local port such as LPT1. Install the printer using this setup program. Now delete both
printers from the printer folder (the printer created by the HP wizard and the printer created
by the printer's setup program). Run the HP wizard a second time. This time choose existing
drivers. You will see two similar printer strings. One will be from the first HP wizard
install and one from the printer's setup install. Choose one. If the wizard exists
successfully you chose the proper driver. If the installation fails, rerun the wizard and
this time choose the other driver. Finally, check to make sure the printer created is the
default printer. This can be accomplished by right mouse clicking on the printer in the
printer's folder and seeing if "Set As Default" is checked.

13. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows 95/98
Some HP printer drivers do not install correctly using the printer .INF file and the
"Have Disk..." option. These drivers and the behaviors that they exhibit are listed
below, along with directions to install these drivers properly.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8100
Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive a "Spool 32" error.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8000
Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive a "Spool 32" error.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

Printer Model: HP Mopier 320
Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 4050
Behavior: PCL 5e driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 5e driver.

Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet 4500
Behavior: Postscript driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling
them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the
printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the Postscript
driver.

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2500C
Behavior: The DeskJet 2500C driver will not install. The user will receive an error message
telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5M
Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: PCL Standard, PCL Enhanced,
Postscript. The user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup
program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
Solution:
The drivers for the HP LaserJet 5M can not be installed with the "Install Network
Printer Wizard." Please use JetAdmin or Web JetAdmin to install this printer and drivers.

Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet
Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: HP Color LaserJet, HP Color LaserJet
5/5M (CLJ5FR), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M (HP). The user will receive an error message
telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet 5
Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: HP Color LaserJet, HP Color LaserJet
5/5M (CLJ5FR), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M (HP), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M Postscript. The
user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup program that came
with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 6P
Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: PCL Standard, PCL Enhanced,
Postscript. The user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup
program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 6L
Behavior: The PCL Standard will not install properly. The user will receive an error message
telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP OfficeJet Pro 1170C
Behavior: The OfficeJet Pro 1170C driver will not install properly. The user will receive an
error message telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and
then to run the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 1120
Behavior: There is a port monitor error right after installing the printer. The printer supplied
driver is not supported
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

14. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows NT 4.0
Some HP printer drivers do not install correctly using the printer .INF file and the "Have Disk..." option. These drivers and the behaviors that they exhibit are listed below, along with directions to install these drivers properly.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8100
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 6 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5000
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 5 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 4050
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 5 and PCL 6
client drivers.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 2100
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL and Poscript
client drivers.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 6L
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5P
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5L
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5
Behavior: Driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them to run
the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer
again.
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5Si Mopier
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 895C
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 890
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 870
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2000C
Behavior: Driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2500C
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP OfficeJet Pro 1170C
Behavior: No inf file that describe printer drivers.
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

Printer Model: HP CopyJet
Behavior: No inf file that describe printer drivers.
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

Copyright 1999 Hewlett-Packard Co. All Rights Reserved.

I think not. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3736033)

FP does not stand for "Fudge Packer".

You people at CLIT need to realize this. Since you all are flaming homosexuals, you obviously don't really mean FP, therefore this post is still in posession of AC's worldwide.

SUCK IT CLIT

OSS and the Collapse of Enron (-1)

returnofthe_spork (552824) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735894)

Recently, in one of the worst financial disasters in history, the energy giant Enron went bankrupt. In the aftermath, thousands of Americans lost their jobs and retirement savings, while millions more lost all faith in the economic system of this fine country. Why did this happen? The Liberal Media was quick to jump all over the executives of Enron, making outrageous claims they had stolen millions of dollars, and the employees of Anderson Accounting, another innocent firm caught in the economic turmoil and mud-slinging. I hope to dispel these libelous myths and reveal what really happened...

It all starts back in 1991, when I, fresh out of college, got a job in the IT department at Enron. I was basically an intern, fetching coffee for the sysadmins who took care of all the machines. Eventually though, I proved my worth to management, and quickly started moving up the ladder. By 1997, I was the Head System Administrator for Enron Corporation.

Everything was going fine until 1999, when a new Operating System [linux.com] started making waves in the industry. Now, being a seasoned veteran, I usually know how to spot buzzwords and fads, but this time I let myself be deceived. I started frequenting web-sites like SlashDot [slashdot.org] , and soon I was espousing the "virtues" of Open-Source to anyone who would listen to me. I was a total GNU-head, even being stupid enough to buy software that was available for free! [redhat.com]

It wasn't long before I was submitting the necessary paperwork to management to switch all Enron's computer systems to Open-Source Software. I had visions in my head of being a hero, of saving my company millions of dollars on software licenses alone. Little did I know what havoc I had just wreaked on a company and a country that had been so kind to me.

By mid 2001, the planning was complete, and we started the switch-over to Open-Source. We had planned to move all the company's servers, Suns and IBMs, along with a test-bed of 25% of the desktops, to Linux. The problems started immediately. From botched installs that required reinstall after reinstall to undocumented half-assed clones of popular commercial software [openoffice.org] , we experienced all kinds of disasters. The unlucky employees who had gotten their desktops switched to Linux couldn't do simple things like open Microsoft Word documents or read floppy disks. Due to some bug in MySQL, the financial database servers which had previously run the unbreakable Oracle managed to lose millions of dollars in a matter of minutes. It was a complete meltdown.

When the dust had settled, there was no need for my bosses to fire me. There was no Enron left to work for. Linux and Open-Source Software had completely destroyed one of the strongest corporations on Earth in a short time. Luckily there have been no charges pressed against me yet. I can only hope that those reading this can learn from my mistake; I know I have. The moral of the story: Open-Source Software is an economic disaster waiting to happen. [yahoo.com] Don't use it!

Re:OSS and the Collapse of Enron (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3735922)

Own up. You're shit and you know you are.

HellZ yeah (-1)

News For Turds (580751) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735896)

Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard
v 02.00

Table of Contents
1. Overview
2. DHCP
3. DNS
4. IP Address Support
5. Suggest IP Address (Autonet)
6. NetWare Support
a. Supported Versions
b. NDS Multiple Tree Support
c. NetWare 5 Support
d. No Novell Print Path
e. No NDS volumes
f. Support for NDS localities
7. Device Discovery
a. Gateway
b. Multi-homed Machines
c. 0.0.0.0 IP Addresses
d. Class A Subnet Masks
8. Driver Support
a. License Acceptance
b. Have Disk Support
c. HP Driver Updates
9. IPX Port Monitor and Data Corruption
10. Printer Names
11. Printer Share Name
12. Error Messages
13. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows 95/98
14. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows NT 4.0

1. Overview
This Read Me file contains last-minute product information for the Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard for Windows 95/ 98 and Windows NT.

2. DHCP
If you try to change just the subnet mask on an HP JetDirect print server that has
been configured via DHCP, you will get an error message while using the Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard. Once a JetDirect print server has been manually
configured, it will store the IP address, subnet mask and default gateway statically
instead of trying to obtain them dynamically. Allowing a static change only to the
subnet mask would cause DHCP-configured IP conflicts in the future. For more information
on this subject, see the HP JetDirect documentation.

3. DNS
In a DNS environment, the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard will
automatically set up the port with the host name rather than the IP address. If you have
a DNS environment that allows Host lookup by IP, but not the reverse lookup, the printer
will never print a page. We consider this environment to be an invalid DNS environment.
To fix the port without changing the DNS environment, view Properties for the printer.
Select the ports tab. Select the port that is in use for that printer. Click Configure
Port. Change the host name to the correct IP address.

4. IP Address Support
Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard do not support class D IP address. Class D IP
addresses are those addresses with the form of 224.xx.yy.zz

All addresses of the form 127.xx.yy.zz are reserved for loopback testing. They are not valid IP
to be used to configure device on the network.

5. Suggest IP Address (Autonet)
The algorithm for obtaining the IP address for the "Suggest Settings..." button is
derived from the Internet Draft DHC-IPV4-AUTOCONFIG by R. Troll entitled "Automatically
Choosing an IP Address in an Ad-Hoc IPv4 Network". The algorithm for generating the IP
address is to randomly generate an address in the 169.254.x.x reserved address range,
then determine if it is in use on the network. If it is in use, generate another address
in the range. Repeat until an address is generated that is not in use. The resulting
address is not intended for use on the Internet. Microsoft uses a similar scheme for
determining an IP address on Windows 98 and Windows 2000 when the system is in an environment
that doesn't have a DHCP or bootp server, and the system is configured to dynamically
determine and IP address.

6. NetWare Support
a. Supported Versions
The supported versions of NetWare are: 3.11, 3.12, 3.2, 4.11, 4.2. For Novell
queue creation, you must be logged into a Novell bindery or NDS server using a Novell
supplied client requester. See www.novell.com for client updates.
b. NDS Multiple Tree Support
The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard only provides support for the NDS
tree the user is currently logged into. If a different tree is desired you must quit
the application, change your login to the desired tree and rerun the application.
c. NetWare 5.0 Support
If NetWare 5 is configured for IPX, and an IPX connection is being used on the client,
the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard can be used to create an NDS print
queue. If NetWare 5 is configured for TCP/IP and a TCP/IP connection is being used on
the client, the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard can be used to create
an IP print path. If the client on which the application is being run has an IPX
connection to the NetWare 5 server, and the client is logged in, an NDS queue server
print path will be recommended. If IPX is not in use but TCP/IP is, a TCP/IP print
path will be recommended. In order to create NDS queues, an IPX connection with a
login must be present.
d. No Novell Print Path
The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard relies upon several DLLs that ship
with the Novell Client for 95 and NT. The application will look for these DLLs and
the associated entry points within them. If any of the necessary DLLs are missing,
or if they do not have the needed entry points (perhaps an old version), a Novell
print path will not be available although other supported print paths will be. If a
Novell print path is not available when you think one should be, try upgrading your
Novell client software to a newer version.

e. No NDS volumes shown in NetWare 4.11
There is a known problem reading the list of available NDS volumes in NetWare 4.11 with
service pack prior to version 7. This problem has been seen in cases were the user
logs into an NDS context that is at a lower level than the available volumes. The solution
is to install the NetWare 4 Support Pack 7 or upgrade to NetWare 4.2.

f. Support for NDS localities
The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard cannot recognize localities in the
NDS context.

7. Device Discovery
a. Gateway
Discovery performance will be very slow if your client PC does not have a gateway
configured. To configure a gateway, choose "Network" in the Control Panel, and then
look at Properties for the TCP/IP protocol. An input should appear for entering a
gateway address. See the online help for a more information on TCP/IP and gateways.
b. Multi-homed Machines
Multi-homed machines are not supported. In a multi-homed machine, it is not possible
to distinguish between multiple devices with the same IP address. A multi-homed
machine is a computer with more than one network connection. It is possible for two
or more devices on different networks to have the same IP address. A multi-homed
machine would see both devices and there would be no guarantee that you are
configuring the correct device. In this case, either disable all but the correct
network card, or configure the HP JetDirect print server from another PC that is on
the correct network and has only one network card. This problem may also occur on
PCs that contains both a network card and a dial-up adapter.
c. 0.0.0.0 IP Addresses
Assuming that an IP address is not assigned, a JetDirect-connected printer will have
an IP address of "0.0.0.0" for approximately 2 minutes after a factory reset. After
2 minutes the IP address will automatically be assigned "192.0.0.192". Attempts to
configure a "0.0.0.0" device through an IP print path will fail. You must wait until
the HP JetDirect device has a non-zero IP address before attempting to configure it.
d. Class A Subnet Masks
If the machine running the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard has an IP
subnet mask of "255.0.0.0" (which is known as a "Class A" subnet mask), device
discovery will suffer a significant performance degradation. To improve discovery
performance you must change your subnet mask to a non-Class A subnet mask.

8. Driver Support
a. License Support
Some drivers require the acceptance of a license. When installing a driver, if a
dialog appears that requests acceptance of a license, you must approve the license
before the application will continue. Failure to approve the license will result in
the application hanging.
b. Have Disk Support
To support new printers or drivers, the "Have Disk" button can be utilized during
driver installation. For the "Have Disk" functionality to work, the media must
contain an "inf" file (e.g. filename.inf). Some driver updates available on the
World Wide Web are in the form of self-extracting archives and are not in a format
that "Have Disk" can utilize. In this case, install the driver before running the
Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard.
c. HP Driver Updates
Hewlett-Packard driver updates can be found on the World Wide Web at:
www.hp.com/go/support
NOTE: This URL is subject to change.

9. IPX Port Monitor and Data Corruption
Some printers may experience data corruption when used with the Hewlett-Packard IPX
Port monitor under Windows NT. These errors may be corrected either by installing an
appropriate hot fix for NT or by installing Service Pack 4 from Microsoft.

10. Printer Names
When naming a printer within the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard you
must enter a name in English that conforms to the Microsoft Printer Naming rules
(i.e. what would be accepted in the Microsoft Add Printer wizard). If a localized name
is required, assign the printer name in English and finish the install. Then open the
printer folder from the Control Panel and select the desired printer. Select "Rename"
from the File menu and rename the printer with a localized name.

11. Printer Share Name
Spaces are not allowed for naming printer shared name.

12. Error Messages
Error writing to for : The system cannot write to the specified file.

This error message may appear when attempting to print a test page or during regular
use. It usually means the printer is out of paper or unavailable. Check the printer
and make sure it is plugged in, has paper, etc. If you were running the Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard when this occurred, there is no need to rerun the
application. Simply locate the printer in the printer folder and right mouse click on
it. Choose "Properties" and select to print a test page. If you have corrected the
error condition, a test page should now print.

Driver cannot install. Must run printer's setup program.

When installing certain HP printers (see tables below under #11 and #12), the Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard may not be able to install the driver. You will receive an
error message stating that you need to run the printer's setup program. The Hewlett-Packard
Install Network Printer wizard may create the printer in the printer's folder despite this error.
The installed printer will not function properly. After the wizard exits, run the setup
program that comes with the printer. You may have to identify the printer as existing on a
local port such as LPT1. Install the printer using this setup program. Now delete both
printers from the printer folder (the printer created by the HP wizard and the printer created
by the printer's setup program). Run the HP wizard a second time. This time choose existing
drivers. You will see two similar printer strings. One will be from the first HP wizard
install and one from the printer's setup install. Choose one. If the wizard exists
successfully you chose the proper driver. If the installation fails, rerun the wizard and
this time choose the other driver. Finally, check to make sure the printer created is the
default printer. This can be accomplished by right mouse clicking on the printer in the
printer's folder and seeing if "Set As Default" is checked.

13. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows 95/98
Some HP printer drivers do not install correctly using the printer .INF file and the
"Have Disk..." option. These drivers and the behaviors that they exhibit are listed
below, along with directions to install these drivers properly.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8100
Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive a "Spool 32" error.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8000
Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive a "Spool 32" error.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

Printer Model: HP Mopier 320
Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 4050
Behavior: PCL 5e driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 5e driver.

Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet 4500
Behavior: Postscript driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling
them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the
printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the Postscript
driver.

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2500C
Behavior: The DeskJet 2500C driver will not install. The user will receive an error message
telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5M
Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: PCL Standard, PCL Enhanced,
Postscript. The user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup
program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
Solution:
The drivers for the HP LaserJet 5M can not be installed with the "Install Network
Printer Wizard." Please use JetAdmin or Web JetAdmin to install this printer and drivers.

Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet
Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: HP Color LaserJet, HP Color LaserJet
5/5M (CLJ5FR), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M (HP). The user will receive an error message
telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet 5
Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: HP Color LaserJet, HP Color LaserJet
5/5M (CLJ5FR), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M (HP), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M Postscript. The
user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup program that came
with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 6P
Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: PCL Standard, PCL Enhanced,
Postscript. The user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup
program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 6L
Behavior: The PCL Standard will not install properly. The user will receive an error message
telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP OfficeJet Pro 1170C
Behavior: The OfficeJet Pro 1170C driver will not install properly. The user will receive an
error message telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and
then to run the printer installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 1120
Behavior: There is a port monitor error right after installing the printer. The printer supplied
driver is not supported
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.
2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

14. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows NT 4.0
Some HP printer drivers do not install correctly using the printer .INF file and the "Have Disk..." option. These drivers and the behaviors that they exhibit are listed below, along with directions to install these drivers properly.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8100
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 6 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5000
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 5 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 4050
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 5 and PCL 6
client drivers.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 2100
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL and Poscript
client drivers.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 6L
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5P
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5L
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5
Behavior: Driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them to run
the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer
again.
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5Si Mopier
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 895C
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 890
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 870
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2000C
Behavior: Driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
installer again.
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2500C
Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
Solution:
1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
manually

Printer Model: HP OfficeJet Pro 1170C
Behavior: No inf file that describe printer drivers.
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

Printer Model: HP CopyJet
Behavior: No inf file that describe printer drivers.
Solution:
1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

Copyright 1999 Hewlett-Packard Co. All Rights Reserved.

Obliatory Movie Reference (3, Funny)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735904)

"I guess I'll have to go buy the White Album again."

Re:Obliatory Movie Reference (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3736156)

Yeah, really. Philips "developed" this technology. I think not.

Cool to see Philips designing some new standards (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3735914)

With all the new pushes towards something to replace the CD, I'm glad to see Philips involved again. They did well with the CD and this sounds like somethingt really useful and worth an upgrade as oppose to things like DataPlay.
-N

Only a couple of weeks before MIB II... (0, Offtopic)

Akardam (186995) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735919)

... you KNOW this has to be a marketing ploy :)

Cool tech though, by all means.

Poker nightmare (5, Funny)

Johnso (520335) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735923)

Imagine getting drunk, playing cards with your friends, and accidentally placing your pr0n collection as ante instead of a quarter...

Re:Poker nightmare (4, Funny)

Servo5678 (468237) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735958)

Imagine getting drunk, playing cards with your friends, and accidentally placing your pr0n collection as ante instead of a quarter...

Actually, that might be a convenient way to bet.

"I'll see your $5 and raise you my pr0n stash..."

Re:Poker nightmare (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3735982)

> accidentally placing your pr0n collection as ante instead of a quarter...

At 1.2gb apiece, you mean my pr0n collection instead of a dozen or so quarters =D

Re:Poker nightmare (5, Funny)

BoBaBrain (215786) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736162)

Imagine getting drunk, playing cards with your friends, and accidentally placing your pr0n collection as ante instead of a quarter...


I doubt you could lose...

You wouldn't get much use from over 1G pr0n unless you had a great hand. :P

Put a case around it! (3, Interesting)

Nanite (220404) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735930)

I hope they put a case around it ala minidisc. It's so hard to keep your CDs unscratched as it is, a tiny disc will only make it harder.

N

Re:Put a case around it! (1)

pi radians (170660) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736133)

Not only that, but MiniDiscs have minor shock absorbing mechanisms in those cases. And they work really REALLY well.

Re:Put a case around it! (2)

paradesign (561561) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736167)

the DATAPLAY does come in case. my buddys dad recieved a sample one, and it looks just like a mini minidisk. its literally the size of a bottle cap. truly cool

more pr0n!!! (0, Redundant)

siliconwafer (446697) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735932)

Sweet. I can fit 1000 of these things in my bed-side stand, vs 30 CD's. And they hold more too. More pr0n!!

Tech Support nightmare... (4, Funny)

InspectorZero (471161) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735935)

I'd hate to work in tech support after this technology starts proliferating...

Instead of: "The cup holder on my computer is broken!"

It will become: "The coin slot on my computer ate my quarter! I was just trying to pay for my Amazon order in cash..."

Re:Tech Support nightmare... (1)

MadKeithV (102058) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735991)

[I]"The coin slot on my computer ate my quarter! I was just trying to pay for my Amazon order in cash..."[/I]

Wouldn't 25c only be sufficient for micro-payments at UberNapster though? I'd think Amazon would be charging at least $250 for shipping by the time this tech is finally really available ;)

Great (1)

KingKire64 (321470) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735946)

SO with this new technology replaces the CD the RIAA will charge 30$ a one of these becuase its a new techonogy. And I think i have a hard time not losing my CDs now... Just wait. I dont know about paying for a HighEnd program that costs like 500$-2000$ that comes on 3 or 4 coin sized CDs? If you ever needed to back up that would be the case.

Cost of New Media (0)

six bands (253046) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735954)

While it sounds great I can only wonder about how long it will take before this technology is affordable enough for the average user. And does any IT company out there stop and think that there is such a thing as too small?

Irony... (0, Offtopic)

H0NGK0NGPH00EY (210370) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735955)

Okay, yes this is somewhat offtopic, but am I the only one who is seeing this story text render all screwy with Mozilla (the words "demonstrating a prototype" are all mashed over the top of each other), but appear just fine in IE? I would think that if any site were to be sure to render properly in Mozilla, it would be /. Or maybe it's just my comp. I did find it amusing, though.

Re:Irony... (1)

galaga79 (307346) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736095)

It's probably just you, I use Mozilla 1.0 and it renders fine for me. I have yet to encounter any rendering problems with Mozilla.

The article is sketchy on details (0)

dmarien (523922) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735962)

But it seems like there are a lot of new ventures into the storage device market... I wonder when all the dust settles which one will be adopted the quickest. My bet, is that it'll be the one with fewer moving parts, and the highest seek rate... sounds like IBM, but the dust is far from being settled....

Re:The article is sketchy on details (1)

lennart78 (515598) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736011)

The fewer moving parts, the better.
I haven't yet met a portable audio device that plays CD's and is shock-proof (even though they try very hard to convince you they are...)
Probably the same for the portable video devices that will undoubtly emerge in the near future.

Sweet As... (1, Informative)

WellHungYungWun (580730) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735964)

This will be a wonderful tool for our business. We store a lot of items on cd media, and our vault is filling up at an incredible rate. We use several medium's to back up our data, but some clients require their data be kept on cd's to avoid having to buy a 4000 dollar dlt drive if they need some of the data. We could save a lot of room if we used this instead. I am all for it, since the 3" discs didn't quite work out the way Sony wanted. Hoorah!

Needs A Lot of Work (1)

txtger (216161) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735968)

It seems like the idea still needs a whole lot of work. I mean, yes, it gets lots of cool points for having coin sized discs...but how do you carry them around. I have problems finding cds...what do you do about things that are even smaller. And, how do you carry them around and still take advantage of the tiny size. It seems having a disc clanging around in your pocket with your change would be a bit tough on it...and it seems that putting it in a nice firm jewel case would up the size a good bit. Does anyone know how they plan to take care of problems like that?

and another one bites ... (1, Insightful)

hummer357 (545850) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735969)

this is probably like all those other "new standards" ...

anyone remember the data minidisk ? dataplay ? dvd+r ? countless others?

let's hope this one gets cheap, medium fast, and marketed *very* quickly.

yeah right...

coin sized? (3, Insightful)

phyr (586855) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735971)

why must new techology always like to be smaller. Instead of fitting twice as much on a coin sized cd why not fit a lot more Gb on a regular sized CD?

Re:coin sized? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3735994)

Read the article. The idea is to stuff 27GB on a cd-sized disc.

Re:coin sized? (1)

Snard (61584) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736029)

why must new techology always like to be smaller. Instead of fitting twice as much on a coin sized cd why not fit a lot more Gb on a regular sized CD?

By this logic, we should all be using 8" hard-shell floppy disks today, which hold multiple megabytes of data. :-)

But I do understand your point about making things so small as to be harder to handle or easier to lose. Maybe they could have gone for the ~3" form factor instead.

Re:coin sized? (0, Redundant)

ptomblin (1378) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736103)

Why not fit a lot more Gb on a regular sized CD?

They did that once. It's called "DVD".

Yeah, Why? (3, Funny)

Karpe (1147) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736139)

I agree! Why don't they keep the 12cm format, allowing people to put GBs of data on it? Can you imagine? You could put a whole movie on MPEG-2 format in such a disk! Perhaps, you could even put extra material, let's say, making ofs, commentaries, etc. They could even create double layered media, allowing for larger capacity. These versatile disks (let's call them DVDs, for Digital Video/Versatil Disk, for now) would be really cool. I would certainly by one!

Too fscking small (1)

Tyler Eaves (344284) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735972)

1, How can we read the labels?
2. How hard will they be to keep track of?
3. What happends to liner notes?

Still, interesting idea. But why not make cd-sized discs that could hold 20-50 CD's worth of information? That'd be what.... 0.2 LOC? (Library of Congress)

Re:Too fscking small (2)

Peyna (14792) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735988)

Yeah, I have enough trouble keeping track of cds, the smaller they get, the more likely I am going to be to forget them and suck them up in the vacuum or something.

Re:Too fscking small (1)

AlgUSF (238240) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736014)

RTFA (Article), they are planning on making regular CD sized ones that hold 72GB. I guess when windows ZE comes out we will be ready...

Home Pr0n? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3735974)

So if you make a homemade pr0n of you and your girlfriend, instead of having to worry about accidentally returning it to the video store instead of the rental video, you NOW have to worry about accidentally giving someone your disc instead of that quarter you had in your pocket!

;-)

creating the market (1)

Smelly Jeffrey (583520) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735975)

It takes a lot of money to develop and market a mini-drive for devices," Craig said.
"The advantage for Philips is that they have been in the market for years," Craig said.

Am i reading this right? Philips has been in the market for mini-drive devices for years?

Re:creating the market (2, Informative)

getha (97821) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735995)

I think he means the market for optical data storage in general... Seeing as Philips was the one inventing the CD, this seems about right...

Re:creating the market (1)

pboulang (16954) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736045)

They helped pioneer the original CD, thus have beeen in the market for years. This time it is just smaller.

Eh... (4, Insightful)

Paradoxish (545066) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735986)

The technology is pretty damn cool, but it's like every other bit of cool technology we hear about - more than likely it'll take years before it's in wide-spread use. In this case, I don't really see the point though. A DVD can hold much more information and because of that my DVD drive is good for playing discs that contain movies, lots of media, games, regular CDs, whatever. There's no reason to add another (smaller) data storage format to the PC... ...and in the case of other consumer-level products that might use this: what's the point? The main use for CDs right now is to hold audio, but the vast majority of artists can't even fill a CD with music. So, really, what's the point? (by the way, I AM aware that the technology is cool, I just think that making a tiny disc that doesn't offer any real storage advantage was a poor choice to make use of it)

Wrong! DVD's aren't as big (2)

Malc (1751) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736148)

"I don't really see the point [...]. A DVD can hold much more information"

Did you bother reading the article? Or, do you actually understand the DVDs that you seem so fond of?

This mini CD can hold 27GB of data. DVDs are much smaller [dvddemystified.com] , as well as being four times the diameter. The biggest DVDs (dual-layer, dual-sided), which I doubt you see very often, are just over half the capacity.

Top worries about small drives (4, Funny)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735993)

On the one side, this is cool as hell. On the other side, what about...

  • Honey, get the Ex-Lax - your daughter has swallowed her Pokemon Music disk again!
  • No, I'm looking looking for spare change in the seat cushions, I'm looking for my Nirvana CD.
  • 1300 MB of storage space...and they still split all the Queen songs I really want across 3 CD's.
  • Ah, now to drink a nice Mountain Dew and listen to my music - shit, I just used my CD instead of a quarter.
  • AOL CD's are now air dropped over your house instead of the mail - their small size lets them flutter down like little, shiny snowflakes.
  • Ever have a problem when you're lying naked on your money, and you accidently get a dime stuck in the crack of your ass? This is much worse.
  • The CD's aren't just the size of a postage stamp - they become the postage stamp.
  • 650 MB Gameboy Advance games - no, wait, that's a good thing. (Seriously - imagine putting Final Fantasy VIII on one of those suckers...Hand held Selphie lovin'.)


Just some ideas.

Re:Top worries about small drives (1)

Drizzten (459420) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736115)

AOL CD's are now air dropped over your house instead of the mail - their small size lets them flutter down like little, shiny snowflakes.

But think of the fun that could be had with batting practice!

*WACK! WACK! WACK!*

Re:Top worries about small drives (1, Insightful)

Lord_Slepnir (585350) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736125)

Ever have a problem when you're lying naked on your money, and you accidently get a dime stuck in the crack of your ass? This is much worse.

If you have a problem with that, then the dime (or CD) is the least of your problems.

Re:Top worries about small drives (2, Funny)

eric2hill (33085) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736131)

Ack! I read "Ever have a problem when you're lying naked on your money..." as "Ever have a problem when you're lying naked on your monkey..." and nearly spit Dew all over my monitor!

Re:Top worries about small drives (1)

Johnso (520335) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736141)

Hand held Selphie lovin'

My self lovin' already involves holding something in my hand...

hm... (1)

dmarien (523922) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735996)

"The advantage for Philips is that they have been in the market for years..."

Really? The only thing that comes to mind when i hear their name are their high quality electric shavers :) Wonder if they could be benifited from having a 3 cm wide CD that holds 1 GB of data :)

Beyond 2000... (1)

fetus (322414) | more than 11 years ago | (#3735997)

Only a prototype? YEARS ago, on Beyond 2000, i saw a demo of this technology.. and only now they have come up with a prototype? I guess it's called Beyond 2000 for a reason...

I just wanna do backups! (5, Insightful)

DNAGuy (131264) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736001)

Can somebody please just come up with a convenient, inexpensive storage medium that allows me to back up these giant (~100GB) hard drives. I haven't had a decent backup medium in years and the commercial stuff is far too expensive for the average consumer.

Re:I just wanna do backups! (2)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736044)

How about... another hard drive in a removable drive cage?

They're convenient and inexpensive, and about the only consumer-friendly way of backing up. I'm sure you can find hot-swappable IDE drive cages, or just reboot.

Re:I just wanna do backups! (2)

Neil Watson (60859) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736121)

A hard drive is not a safe backup medium. Hard drives fail. They are also vulnerable to shock, cosmic waves and magnetic fields. The life span of data stored on a hard drive that is not connected to a computer is not long. Even magnetic tapes suffer from this.

Large, non volatile mediums are definitely needed. DVD's may be a good start but, commercial squabbling has prevented a universal standard from emerging.

Re:I just wanna do backups! (2)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736126)

Or Firewire/USB kits - I've seen those going for about $60 (USB) to $100 (Firewire). I plan on doing that for my OS X backups.

Re:I just wanna do backups! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3736056)

How about another hard drive? Any new technology backup medium you're looking for will surely cost more than that.

Data size and cost.... (2)

MosesJones (55544) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736004)


At what stage will these advances in data storage become pointless. Getting a HD that can store 100Gb is possible today. These advances mean that today we can store 14 or so DVD movies on a single drive, in future, and we are only talking 10 years here. You will be able to store "Blockbusters" entire collection on your hard-drive.

So there must come a point where financially there is no reason to buy a bigger drive because consumers cannot use it up.

Now big business and the military will always be able to use it up. As will scientists and universities. But for the consumer this is talking about the day where your MP3 player stores millions of albums and is the size of a credit card... question is "how will you plug in the headphones"

No; Speed and Noise (1)

Pooh22 (145970) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736102)

I agree, size doesn't matter too much anymore soon. Of course people will keep dreaming up bigger things to store and games will probably keep coming on multiple discs.

But the most important things these days is bandwidth, there are now two major bottlenecks in a PC: from CPU to RAM and from RAM to permanent (random access) storage.

Also, as discs make more noise when they spin faster and people want ever more quiet PCs, the experienced noise of storage devices will most likely be a more important factor than how much it can store.

And probably energy consumption for portable devices...

You can never have enough disk space (2)

falser (11170) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736116)

So there must come a point where financially there is no reason to buy a bigger drive because consumers cannot use it up.

That would seem to make sense, but in my experience it's simply not true. No matter how unbelievably enormous my hard drives seem when I get them, over time I really have no trouble filling them up.

My theory is that (a power user's) disk usage scales proportionally with the amount of available disk space. You get a new drive, and fill it up with less 'compressed' data - like using lossless codec instead of MP3, and >1GB DivX files instead of 500MB ones. Install more games in "FULL" rather than playing off the CD's. And use duplicate disks in RAID for backups.

Re:Data size and cost.... (1)

Drizzten (459420) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736152)

...there must come a point where financially there is no reason to buy a bigger drive because consumers cannot use it up.

*insert Bill Gate's memory quote here*

If for no other reason at all, that extra space will be filled with bloated software.

How do you label them? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3736016)

I have a hard enough time fitting a listing of the contents on regular sized CDs. Will these new coin sized CDs come with a match sized marker and a magnifying glass?

-Sorry about the anon posting

This will be another ZIP/LS-120 drive (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3736022)

Too little, too late. It's not a big enough capacity to replace CD's for storage while a much bigger format (DVD) is getting ready to take hold. ZIP drives faced this. They had greater capacity than floppy disks, but with CD's taking hold, they seemed like a waste to many people. Sure, they sold quite a few, but their window was bigger and their capacity were still 80x bigger than floppies. This, however, is twice the capacity as a CD? Not enough. If you want to make something, make it atleast comparable to DVD in capacity. I don't think most people really care that much about physical size when it comes to removable media.

Re:This will be another ZIP/LS-120 drive -- NOT! (2, Insightful)

scharkalvin (72228) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736138)

Oh size DOES matter. You can't fit a 5.25" disk in a digicam, and the 3.5" disks make for a bulky mess (Sony's CD digicam is a little to big to fit in your pocket). With a coin size disk they will work nicely in the average pocket size digicam. I think the disk will have to be enclosed in a little plastic case (about the size of a compact flash or smart media card) or they will get lost in your pocket and damaged.

Get the big picture (2)

aardwolf64 (160070) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736023)

News.com had a link that points to related stories, in case you want the bigger picture.

Located here [com.com] , it contains a story from May 2002 (when they were first getting the technology ready).

So I guess a cd sized one would hold 16 gig? (1, Redundant)

Microsift (223381) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736032)

Assuming there's a direct relationship between surface area and memory capacity. so this is nit even a two-fold improvement over DVD (I think a dual layered DVD holds about 9.4G of data).

The unsung blue LED (2)

L. VeGas (580015) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736037)

It's the development of the cost-efficient blue LED that is responsible for the blue laser. It's development is also responsible for the massive, low-power, groovy LED video displays in Vegas, NY, Tokyo, etc.

Re:The unsung blue LED (2, Interesting)

hagardtroll (562208) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736169)

Does this mean that Ultra-violet LEDs will be tbe next big leap in technology?

Microdrive killer? (4, Insightful)

Fulcrum of Evil (560260) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736043)

If there things cost less than $20, they'd totally wipe out the microdrive niche for high-end cameras - who cares if each picture takes 20MB when i've got 5 of these in my pocket.

Re:Microdrive killer? (2)

red_dragon (1761) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736104)

Not necessarily. Who's saying that they won't be producing these discs inside CompactFlash cards? This might actually help pump up the storage capacity of microdrives.

Re:Microdrive killer? (1)

forged (206127) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736132)

That will be even more true when the computer drives for these discs will become mainstream. And who cares if the media is rewritable or not: if it's cheap enough, a write-once solution for archiving photos makes perfect sense.

Look what the price for blank CD's is nowadays. Very low.... I buy mine in bulk (50 at a time) and I don't care anymore if I make a few coasters along the way !

Form factor (3, Insightful)

fruey (563914) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736052)

I have seen a lot of people talking about losing these mini blu-ray CDs and all that, but what they are really for is for PDAs and cameras. The 5" form factor of current optical discs (CD and DVD) is perfect. Much smaller and they would be a lot harder to handle. Remember CD singles on 3" discs? They stopped that pretty fast and went back to 5" discs with 3" of nothing. Wish I still had some of my CD-singles though, bet they'll be worth a bit soon.

The credit card form factor is better for rescue CDs, in your wallet for those times when the server won't boot at a client's place. These are just for PDAs and cameras and maybe walkman jukeboxes, once they are burnable for cheap of course.

It would seem that a lot of you missed the point that the form factor is just "cool" so they're mentioning it, but of course this will scale up to high capacity optical 5" discs, each fitting the contents of the British Library AND the library of congress...

Or how about using these discs inside old 3.5" disc cases? That would make them easy to handle and should they be RW it would be a bonus.

If they can fit that much... (1)

intermodal (534361) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736062)

why not use the same technology to mass produce a recordable 5 1/4 inch (or so) media that I can do my backups on without having to break my archives into a series of CD's? If they mass produce it quickly and make it inexpensive enough, the proliferation will give them a huge jump on their market share. Still, if they want my business, it'll have to run in Linux...

You have to extrapolate (1)

frascone (466844) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736064)


Ok, they came out with coin sized disks. That's only a marketing ploy. There are too many problems related to having small disks (just read the first 50 or so responses).

But, imagine how much data they'd be able to store on CD sized media with the density they are using on a coin sized disk . . . now *that* is interesting!

Finally! (2, Interesting)

MImeKillEr (445828) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736074)

A (hopefully) cheap way for me to back up my data without having to resort to SAN or tape.. The article mentions that they're hoping to get standard-size discs to store upto 27GB of data... I could back up my home system on just *3* CDs!

Of course, given the price of DVD writers initially, I'd expect these to be quite pricey when they first come out.

I didn't see any mention of backwards-compatibility with current devices. Imagine burning 27GB of MP3s (or .wavs to play in the non-MP3 car stereo) only to find out that your favorite player can't read it....

Mmmmm Storage (2, Interesting)

OzPhIsH (560038) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736083)

God, this is the kind of new technology that makes me giddy!! Imagine the things that could benefit from tiny mass storage devices. Imagine your digital music player that holds 1000 MB instead of a paltry 64 or 128. A digital camera that holds hundreds of high-resolution photos instead of 30 or so. Sure, these aren't new ideas, but they'll be so much BETTER with this tech. Remember in MIB when he's got the enitre Elvis collection on one of those tiny disc's? That could become a reality in the not so distant future. The possibilites of a cheap, portable, mass storage medium has me drooling. I have a few questions though.
How much? Just how expensive will devices based on this technology be?
Standard? There appears to be a lot of key companies in this "Blu-Ray" group. Does that mean consumers can expect a standard medium, or are there going to be 5 different manufacturer versions that we need to check compatability agaist.
When? When will these devices become available to the public? Or, more likely, how long will it take for the 'How Much' question to be answered with 'cheap enough for your average consumer'.
Re-Writability? Are these devices write once, or can the be re-written several times over? I've been waiting for the difinitive floppy disk replacement for a long time. Zip hasnt cut it. Super-disc hasn't cut it. But cheap portable 1 gig storage? Yeah, now you got me interested.

Re:Mmmmm Storage (2)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736149)

"I've been waiting for the difinitive floppy disk replacement for a long time. Zip hasnt cut it. Super-disc hasn't cut it. But cheap portable 1 gig storage? Yeah, now you got me interested."

I am also interested ... but get this: "Optical drives and discs are less expensive than the flash memory typically used in portable devices today. The low cost of the discs makes the format more appealing to consumers than removable flash memory cards, but adding a new storage technology to devices is expensive, according to Gartner analyst Mary Craig. "It takes a lot of money to develop and market a mini-drive for devices," Craig said. "

Basically, I'm wondering (after reading the article:)
- How costly is the drive itself?
- How costly are the discs?
- Is it read/write/rewrite?
- How fast is it?

The article seems to imply that it's "expsnsive, but less expensive than flash memory."

I was considering buying a digital camera in the next weeks, but is it worth waiting a year or more for devices with better (and perhaps faster, lower power requirement) storage?

Minidisc? (4, Insightful)

Christianfreak (100697) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736087)

This looks pretty cool but one has to wonder if it will make it or if it will go the way of the minidisc [minidisc.com] . I guess the market will decide, but right now CD's are pretty entrenched (even with the MP3 players that are out now).

And I have trouble finding my keys... (2)

peterdaly (123554) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736091)

I can't find my keys, and they expect me to be able to manage these?

Portable Storage is kind of like other portable devices, there is a size that is too small. The super small Motorola flip-phone? Too small for me, I'd lose or break it.

What might make more sense a a group of these in a cd-player magazine type configuration. It's big enough to keep track of, and holds a crapload of info. Not small enough to fall in between your couch cushions never to be seen again. Just think of how much change you find behind, or beside the driver seat in your car. I can wash my car every couple weeks with what rolls out of my pockets.

-Pete

I've seen this before ... (2, Redundant)

jkujawa (56195) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736094)

"This little sucker is going to replace CDs. Looks like I'm going to have to buy the White Album again." (Men in Black)

Cell phone recorders? (1)

1WingedAngel (575467) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736098)

The prototype drive measures just 5.6 by 3.4 by 0.75cm--suitable for use in portable devices such as digital cameras, handhelds and cell phones--but the company is continuing to work to shrink the drive.

Two things :

(1) Make excellent conversation recorders once the recording devices get small enough.

(2) Now I can set my cell phone ringer to say : "Excuse me sir, but you have a phone call." in CD-quality butler-style .WAV action.

Tim
---
I guess I should start calling my cell phone Jeeves.

standards (2)

liquidsin (398151) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736109)

It's good to see that they used a standard measurement for size (a US quarter) but how about the standard 'Libraries of Congress' instead of this 'two cds' crap. Who the hell knows how much a cd holds, anyways???

Standared Sized CDs... (1)

LordYUK (552359) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736113)

"The group is pushing a new blue-laser format for standard-sized CDs, which will increase their capacity to 27GB"

THAT will be cool... 120 gig HD on about 5 CD's...

hehehe :)

SeaQuest DSV... (1)

InspectorZero (471161) | more than 11 years ago | (#3736124)

Is anyone else reminded of the discs they used on SeaQuest? Those were about this size, but they came in mini-disc style cases. I love it when technology catches up with SF predictions.

In some ways, we'll never catch up to SeaQuest, though. I don't imagine there are many hackers who look like Jonathan Brandis [imdb.com] , for instance.
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