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161 comments

Lycoris (-1, Offtopic)

paganizer (566360) | about 12 years ago | (#3777730)

I know absolutely nothing about this subject, and have no comments aside from "first", which I hate to read when other people do it, but god, when you see that no one else has posted....

Re:Lycoris (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777742)

take pride in your fr0sty piss, young paganizer (you faggot ass wiccan). come to the -1 side, my son.

Re:Lycoris (-1)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | about 12 years ago | (#3777880)

How can a clitoris (wrongly speeled, guess taco wrote the submitted story) have cheeks instead of lips ?

rootey tootey (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777740)

i am all alone, and would like some porn links please.

Re:rootey tootey (-1, Offtopic)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777754)

have bandwidth? like naked japanese bitches?

in about 10hrs, you can wget -m http://www.dynamix.net/ [dynamix.net] and have over 1GB of pics to screw yourself to! i also highly recommend autopr0n.com [autopr0n.com] , categorized free tgp niggumz!!

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777781)

the f0rst link doesnt work.
bah.

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777812)

just goto www.dynamix.net then. i link in beneath the "CLICK HEAR TO ENTAR IF YOU OVER 18!!" screen..

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777824)

tha INTARWEB must be BOrken. website Is dooon!

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777830)

must be/ it's loading up like a muthafucka over here, no prollem! :!@( if you haven;t seen it already, do a g00gle srach for "bijin", he's got some fine ass honeys on his site tooK> K?

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777852)

aah, j00 mean h3r3 [att.ne.jp]

Th4T r0x0rz!

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777840)

but keep trying. dynamix.net has the biggest free collection of akira_fubuki pics that i've found. she has to be the dirtiest looking japanese sexXx goddess i've ever seen evar. fuuuuuuck she gorgeums.!! !!@#

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777836)

moderators r0x0rz!
upmodz 4 Porn!
Yay!

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777864)

omg -7! movin' on UP!

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777887)

Go play somewhere else junior. The adults are solving the worlds problems.

Re:rootey tootey (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777912)

poor punctuation is a very serious problem in today's world. the people at cuny.edu have made important, significant progress [cuny.edu] in this field. enj0rk!

the name lycoris (3, Funny)

Drunken Coward (574991) | about 12 years ago | (#3777744)

The name lycoris always reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where Jerry can't remember the woman's name, but knows it rhymes with a part of a woman's body, so he guess that it is Mulva. It turns out her name was Dolores, but it could just as well been Lycoris- I think it rhymes even better!

linux on the desktop (1)

RogueProtoKol (577894) | about 12 years ago | (#3777748)

this is great for gettin linux on the desktop, its great to see it happening and happening in general mainstream stores, distros like mandrake are good but they aren't coming on computers in the mainstream, ppl have to go out and get it themselves

Mandrake on mainstream (1)

TheJZA (580025) | about 12 years ago | (#3778423)

Actually mandrake is on the mainstream as well, they just announced a partnership with best buy. To have mandrake in their pcs.

Uber wow! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777768)

So who really gives a shit about YET another Linux distro? Who GIVES A SHIT? You freakin Linux weenies, go wash tour drawers and get the cum stains off of them. Fag bastards!
.
.
.
Get some News That Matters!

Slashdot - now in widescreen!!! by pwpbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777778)

IntroductionA canyon near a polar bear is a big fan of an annoying turn signal Indeed a judge somewhat teaches another hardly varigated lover Some short order cook gives lectures on morality to an insurance agent If some turkey over a microscope shares a shower with the canyon beyond the ocean then a briar patch inside a stovepipe leaves The pit viper toward a graduated cylinder plans an escape from a football team related to a grizzly bear a cloud formation toward a recliner An elusive tomatoIf the boiled grizzly bear befriends another football team then a lazily mysterious inferiority complex hides A crane the impromptu tape recorder and a cab driver are what made America great Most people believe that some grand piano brainwashes the raspy graduated cylinder but they need to remember how often a collegeeducated cargo bay beams with joy A tape recorder writes a love letter to a football team because the scythe for the tripod seeks a cough syrup related to the crank case An inferiority complexThe ski lodge from the eggplant pours freezing cold water on an abstraction If the scooby snack avoids contact with the pork chop from a photon then a particle accelerator panics An overwhelmingly skinny squid throws a support group from some pork chop at another steam engine For example a garbage can for an earring indicates that the cantankerous asteroid seeks a sandwich A nonchalantly feline apartment buildingThe diskette beyond a submarine ceases to exist or a muddy turn signal gives secret financial aid to another canyon Some sandwich toward a support group caricatures a fairy behind a girl scout A roller coaster of the bottle of beer is righteous An unstable polar bear gives secret financial aid to the submarine beyond another turn signal ConclusionsThe asteroid for a chestnut thoroughly trades baseball cards with an earring near the wheelbarrow A bowling ball over the particle accelerator earns frequent flier miles and a turkey gives secret financial aid to the garbage can A muddy pickup truck brainwashes the grizzly bear behind an anomaly A power drill caricatures a Eurasian line dancer Now and then the crank case beyond the avocado pit cooks cheese grits for an eagerly tattered apartment building IntroductionThe blood clot inside a hole puncher is paternal When you see the sheriff living with the microscope it means that the apartment building meditates A wrinkled submarine reaches an understanding with the lazily familiar customer because a food stamp toward a cargo bay buys an expensive gift for the fire hydrant of the deficit The recliner caricatures a pork chop A globule is stoic Some CEOThe ridiculously frightened turn signal ignores the financial oil filter When a traffic light starts reminiscing about lost glory a buzzard procrastinates The apartment building nonchalantly finds subtle faults with a lover Furthermore a pickup truck laughs out loud and a scythe about a fraction thoroughly competes with the demon defined by an industrial complex A bottle of beerFurthermore the impromptu briar patch hesitates and another load bearing deficit learns a hard lesson from the snooty hockey player An oil filter hides and the defendant plays pinochle with a greasy food stamp Any warranty can write a love letter to the parking lot but it takes a real dust bunny to carelessly give lectures on morality to the ski lodge toward a satellite The skyscraper toward a cab driver caricatures a moldy fire hydrant Now and then a bowling ball defined by some wedge makes a truce with the meanspirited blood clot The particle acceleratorWhen you see the lover near a mating ritual it means that a particle accelerator procrastinates When the graduated cylinder related to the ball bearing is singlehandledly optimal the asteroid over a crank case takes a peek at a somewhat rude submarine The eagerly imaginative pit viper pours freezing cold water on a mating ritual living with the sheriff If a steam engine organizes a selfloathing wheelbarrow then an umbrella near the hole puncher rejoices ConclusionsSome particle accelerator bestows great honor upon a senator of a paper napkin Now and then an usually varigated turn signal slyly gives secret financial aid to the earring related to an insurance agent A crane toward a tape recorder the movie theater and a plaintiff related to a bartender are what made America great A skinny tape recorder lazily learns a hard lesson from the snooty grain of sand Now and then an infected lover seldom bestows great honor upon a cowboy IntroductionAny cowboy can singlehandledly borrow money from the makeshift bartender but it takes a real turkey to wisely pour freezing cold water on the incinerated line dancer If a fruit cake can be kind to a nearest chestnut then the buzzard defined by an ocean reads a magazine Most people believe that a wheelbarrow beyond a fruit cake cooks cheese grits for a stovepipe but they need to remember how secretly a razor blade goes to sleep Indeed the cantankerous customer goes deep sea fishing with a resplendent submarine Sometimes a fashionable tomato takes a coffee break but the turn signal defined by a tornado always seldom teaches a carpet tack toward the steam engine A worldly crank caseA warranty is accidentally temporal For example the precise vacuum cleaner indicates that another fractured bowling ball ridiculously finds lice on an insurance agent If a cough syrup slyly assimilates another minivan then a bartender related to some short order cook earns frequent flier miles Sometimes an insurance agent beyond the lover daydreams but the inexorably pompous football team always laughs and drinks all night with a wedge inside a blood clot The nuclear tabloid takes a coffee break and a dust bunny hesitates however the bowling ball seldom has a change of heart about a line dancer about a hydrogen atom A fairyThe temporal fighter pilot gives secret financial aid to a fractured cloud formation The miserly tomato is cantankerous When a corporation near a recliner dies a squid defined by the defendant rejoices Furthermore the short order cook related to another girl scout hides and the crispy apartment building figures out the pine cone from a rattlesnake When a wisely mysterious roller coaster is frozen the ridiculously infected defendant brainwashes a food stamp related to a polar bear A reclinerA frozen chess board gets stinking drunk because a bottle of beer around a pickup truck finds lice on an eggplant over a chess board The impromptu rattlesnake derives perverse satisfaction from a light bulb or a pit viper related to the razor blade eagerly is a big fan of a scooby snack from a reactor Any fairy can laugh and drink all night with a hairy defendant but it takes a real pig pen to secretly compete with a pit viper over a chestnut When an inexorably worldly wedding dress is dreamlike a chess board around a scythe bestows great honor upon the mating ritual from the corporation A skyscraper is makeshift ConclusionsAnother tuba player the photon living with a turkey and a fire hydrant of the diskette are what made America great Now and then a carpet tack gives a pink slip to a stovepipe defined by a scythe When you see the rude turn signal it means that the anomaly starts reminiscing about lost glory Indeed the freight train related to the blood clot plans an escape from an asteroid related to a blithe spirit the hesitantly Eurasian cloud formation Now and then the recliner figures out some resplendent warranty IntroductionA sandwich procrastinates because a chestnut satiates a power drill toward a submarine Some green fighter pilot befriends a defendant over the cashier When an abstraction hides a scooby snack near a tape recorder laughs out loud Another fruit cake around a roller coaster competes with a pit viper For example a spider around a fighter pilot indicates that the crank case inside an apartment building pours freezing cold water on a stovepipe A CEOA mortician daydreams and a paycheck gives a pink slip to the frozen satellite Another grand piano writes a love letter to the apartment building related to some wedding dress When a senator is outer a precise tuba player accurately makes love to a turkey toward the squid A hydrogen atom a wrinkled nation and the cosmopolitan polar bear are what made America great The demon inside a vacuum cleaner trembles and the purple light bulb hibernates however a chess board trades baseball cards with a treacherous support group A warranty near the wedding dressMost people believe that a dust bunny writes a love letter to a cowboy toward the cyprus mulch but they need to remember how nonchalantly a cashier wakes up When a defendant related to the pit viper daydreams another tripod panics A lover wisely bestows great honor upon the highly paid umbrella The pit viper feverishly makes a truce with the federal umbrella A reactor finds subtle faults with another stovepipe for some class action suit A frustrating cargo bayA traffic light over an earring goes to sleep but a photon requires assistance from the inferiority complex The moldy hole puncher gives a pink slip to a tape recorder of a fire hydrant When the accurately varigated roller coaster is load bearing a squid for a dust bunny ridiculously borrows money from another mortician A cashier figures out a fire hydrant of an earring A light bulb for a stovepipe trades baseball cards with the meanspirited fairy ConclusionsThe cashier barely seeks a chess board over a tape recorder Now and then some eggplant toward the asteroid teaches the green minivan The mastadon beyond a cargo bay is a big fan of the freight train Most people believe that the pompous mastadon steals pencils from a loyal tornado but they need to remember how often a vacuum cleaner rejoices When the book is openedWhen you see a protective territory it means that this nyannyan under the farmer falls in love Indeed a Sunnake Baba drawn to a nosy brother secretly knows a true love away from a pervert When a lecherous old man hides this Taiitsuikun fades from existance When the chi away from the mystic fades from existance a Genbu under a priest goes to sleep Most people believe that a lover related to this Shogun hides from a but they need to remember how almost the temporal ninja beams with joy An Emperor from a wandering monkAn artist slyly gets devoured by the artist When the slyly brilliant child wakes up the evildoers over a nosy brother senses a plot An angry junior high school student follows their true love through the city or this Tenkouworshipping monster over some cackling madman makes a pact with the child genius Sometimes an alleged sunnake baba wanders the halls of the imperial palace but a prince always has a change of heart about some evildoers away from a sneaky fellow Sometimes this under a body stealing little freak hides but a Seishi always passs out from seeing a Suzaku no Miko over the desired boyfriend An Emperor from a magicianAny child can amazingly reach an understanding with the Seishi toward a Byakko Seishi but it takes a real bandit to hesitantly avoid contact with an insecure prince The family from the wandering monk figures out a sacrificial seishi Indeed the poor Genbu no Miko eagerly borrows money from the Seishi An angel senses a plot or some halfmanhalfbeast figures out some Suzaku Seishi A Taiitsuikun related to the is horrified The enraged chiThe peon with a father often watchs from the shadows this family A priest hesitates and a peon around a eats more than one person should be able to at one sitting however a hero toward a rebel slyly satiates a beyond a manipulative bastard A the Genbu no Miko and an opera singer away from an animal god are what made the panics Gods Sky and Earth the legend that it is A cackling madman over the husband gets swept up by the illusion of the seishi This husband assimilates an Emperor And so in the endAn animal god under a stranger has a change of heart about a magician If the enraged demon seldom ignores a spy for a wife then a away from a mysterious stranger falls in love Most people believe that a often goes to a poet around a pervert but they need to remember how completely a nearest Emperor eats more than one person should be able to at one sitting A nosy brother for a wandering monk sets aflame a nearest Suzaku no Miko A miko controlled by this seishi leaves and a handsome doesnt want to return to the real world however some hardly unseeing spunky schoolgirl laughs and parties all night with an idolized spunky schoolgirl

-pwpbot

Re:Slashdot - now in widescreen!!! by pwpbot (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777857)

genius. i velly much like your writing :)

What makes Fry's special? (2, Interesting)

ObviousGuy (578567) | about 12 years ago | (#3777783)

Can they really do better than Dell, Gateway, or any other dedicated system builder who has attempted to provide Linux systems and given up?

Wouldn't the DIY'er who is attracted to Linux more likely download Debian or buy RedHat or SuSE? What's the benefit?

I guess we're just warming up for another "Desktop Linux is Dead" article 3 months from now when Fry's gives up on this silly venture.

Re:What makes Fry's special? (5, Interesting)

mccalli (323026) | about 12 years ago | (#3777833)

Can they really do better than Dell, Gateway, or any other dedicated system builder who has attempted to provide Linux systems and given up?

Yes.

People can see the OS first, rather than just picking a drop-down off some web site. Besides, although I don't know about Gateway Dell buried their offering so deep it was almost impossible to find on the site. You had to go in via some special URL - if you just went through to order a laptop via the normal route, you wouldn't have ever seen Linux as an option.

Also, as far as I remember, the Linux option was actually made more expensive on Dell machines than buying a Windows license.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:What makes Fry's special? (0)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777881)

it just costs more because it takes extra time to train their monkeys to install it and they probably have to use slightly more expensive hardware to cater to linux's shitty device support. then they always throw in their useless technical service plans.

sorry everyone. (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777893)

omg. wtf is wrong with me ! what have i done :(

Re:What makes Fry's special? (2, Interesting)

Chemicalscum (525689) | about 12 years ago | (#3777894)

Dell gave up Linux on the Desktop because of blackmail from the Redmond Beast. As was shown from the MS emails in the MS anti-trust case.

Fry's as a small consumer electronic's chain may not be getting the sort of major discounts that that the Beast can threaten.

Furthermore Walmart is about to start shipping online PC's preloaded with Mandrake. They don't get the major discounts that the big OEM's get but they might just get bought off by MS offering it to them. But then the anti-trust case may prevent that.

Linux is kept from being sold preloaded on PC's by anti-competitive monoply action not because there is no demand.

BTW I think we should call PC's with Linux loaded on them Personal Workstations to differentiate them from Windoze boxes and to indicate their superiority.

Re:What makes Fry's special? (4, Insightful)

zandermander (563602) | about 12 years ago | (#3777905)

Dear Obvious Guy,

Obviously you've never been to Fry's. They are a California-based electronics chain but far, far better than CompUSA, Best Buy, Radio Shack....

I have had the pleasure of living near a Fry's for 9 months and, basically, it is a Slashdotter's wet dream. You name it geeky/gadget/electronic/radio/software... they've got it.

I hope you too one day have the chance to visit a Fry's.

Re:What makes Fry's special? (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777922)

I have had the pleasure of living near a Fry's for 9 months and, basically, it is a Slashdotter's wet dream.

free stockroom assrectal butt felch w/ any purchasses over 100$!??

Re:What makes Fry's special? (1)

ArhcAngel (247594) | about 12 years ago | (#3778374)

Actually I was in Fry's (Houston) this weekend and I noticed the system in question. There was a saleperson helping a couple with the unit. The system was $299. The couple (they had a little boy just big enough to reach up and touch the keyboard.) were looking and the man asked if they would have to install all of their old software themselves. The salesman replied it was running a different OS and it wouldn't run their old programs. Then the guy said he didn't care what OS it came with because he was gonna install his old OS when he get's it home. I'm not sure that's what we want but at least to Fry's it looks like a buy for Linux.

What the interview didn't bring up... (4, Informative)

captain_scarecrow (584495) | about 12 years ago | (#3777784)

is that Mr. Cheek announced in the Lycoris forum sometime back that Lycoris, following the lead of Caldera, is going to per-seat licensing for business use- thus joining the ranks of those selling Linux outright.

That's really too bad, it had a lot of promise for that niche.

Re:What the interview didn't bring up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777849)

Check out Blue Linux for an alternative with very similar features, strengths and weaknesses, that's committed to staying free.

Re:What the interview didn't bring up... (1, Flamebait)

Graymalkin (13732) | about 12 years ago | (#3778156)

Oh boohoo, someone is asking you to pay for something. The whining never fucking stops. What about the fact that Lycoris wants to charge money to its corporate customers is so wrong? They're spending their capital packaging a working and decent desktop Linux system, their customers aren't doing the work, therefore the Lycoris folks should be for the work they are freeing the company from doing. Being an economy of scale, Lycoris doesn't need to charge a large fee (which they don't) for their work done. Their customers get a good desktop Linux distribution and the Lycoris folks feed their families and have a place to live. Everybody wins.

I really don't understand this communist manifesto inspired meme among Linux geeks that Linux ought to be free and a person's time is worth nothing. Lycoris is doing work, for that work they ought to get something. A pat on the back and kudos for doing a good job and fighting the good fight or some hippie bullshit is not going to pay their bills. These guys are working a 9-5 on the product, they don't have day jobs and then at night spend endless hours coding like the Debian crowd (which is no bash in the slightest on the Debian crowd). Besides they're only going with per seat licensing, if they wanted to be badasses they would have gone the Microsoft route and used per user licenses. Per seat licensing is not so bad. If you have 5 computers and 10 users you only pay for the 5 computer seats. Find that pricing scheme with Windows XP Server, go ahead and try. It isn't going to happen. Windows XP Server pricing is based on the number of users with site licenses allowing an near infinite number of installs for a pretty hefty price.

It's Linux anyhow, if Lycoris turned into a bunch of insane badasses it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to drop them like a bad habit and switch to another distribution with a better licensing scheme. It is sad this whole process hasn't already worked itself through the fiber of your being preventing you from making this comment. It is also sort of sad that someone had modded you up for making this comment. I feel bad for the people programming shit you use that likely never get so much as a kudos from your hippie meme banner waving ass.

Re:What the interview didn't bring up... (3, Interesting)

Veteran (203989) | about 12 years ago | (#3778730)

I'll try to explain what it is that other people are seeing that causes them to have a different perspective than you have got.

I have long heard the argument that the reason that owners get to keep the majority of the money in a company is that they are taking all of the risks - so that they get to keep the rewards.

But what exactly is the risk that a business owner takes? The answer is: if things don't work out he will wind up as poor as his employees and have to go to work for somebody else. That is not a risk for an employee - that is an iron clad guarantee!

The thousands of employees at Microsoft who did all of the actual work of creating the code are not together worth as much as Bill Gates. People who think that is OK - do so because they have greed and larceny in their hearts; they want to be able to steal from their employees the way that Gates and millions of others have stolen from theirs. When your highest morality is "I can get away with it" you will create a structure that lets you get away with it. Heaven forbid that you should treat your employees ethically.

In a sense the people who write software know that their time is practically worthless - so some of us have decided to become software philanthropists and give our code away - we really have little to lose in doing so; the 'Bill Gates' of the world are going to replace us with hordes of cheap programmers from third world countries in any case.

Mostly we give our code away because we love programming, and we want good software to always be available, but a small part of our motivation is malicious: in response to the way that we have been treated we want to say to the 'Bill Gates' of the world "You want to treat us like dirt? Fine, asshole, try competing with something that costs nothing."

Do you now understand why we might find it objectionable to see business men trying to exploit programmers work by something like 'per seat licensing'?

Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (4, Interesting)

DanThe1Man (46872) | about 12 years ago | (#3777786)

This is not a question to Joseph Cheek, but to the linux community reading /..

It said in the article about Lindows:
LindowsOS is based on a distribution of Linux, which is covered by a license that requires it to be made freely available for modification and redistribution. However, a system designer who used an unlicensed version of LindowsOS would not be able to use Lindows.com's logo or join the LindowsOS Certification program, and would receive no technical support.

So, where can I download a free Lindows ISO without the logo?

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777876)

maybe here? ftp://207.251.100.67/iso/

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (1)

DanThe1Man (46872) | about 12 years ago | (#3777908)

That is Lycoris, not Lindows. Thank you anyway senior troll.

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (1)

MindStalker (22827) | about 12 years ago | (#3777930)

I saw it yesterday on www.sharereactor.com which is simply an index of real proper programs on edonkey
www.edonkey2000.com

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3777933)

i thought you WERENT following this THREAD YOU SHITFUCKING LIER!

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (0, Offtopic)

DanThe1Man (46872) | about 12 years ago | (#3777980)

I sure did, and I didn't look at that thread since.

Enjoy your feed Mr. Troll.

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3778011)

are you dimfuture dan?

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777944)

j00 r off topix.
Modz PLZ MOD DOWN Thiz FUXOZ

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1, Offtopic)

DanThe1Man (46872) | about 12 years ago | (#3778010)

yea, please mod me down moderators. I would love to have -1 karma so only people willing to scroll through "page-widening posts" will ever read my thoughts. Yes, like Yr0, that is who I want to be like.

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3778051)

it's not healthy to supress your dreams and desires. it's not safe to run away from your problems. we'll understand you, everything will be okay. it's not your fault daddy liked to rub his penis on your colon after a night of milwaukee's best and a session of wifeboxing. it's okay danny boy..

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (0, Offtopic)

DanThe1Man (46872) | about 12 years ago | (#3778284)

The following is a feed to a troll. If you do not wish to read about a troll getting trolled, then go on to the next message.

by diaper_tales on 07:31 AM -- Thursday June 27 2002 (#3778051)
(User #575224 Info)
it's not healthy to supress your dreams and desires. it's not safe to run away from your problems. we'll understand you, everything will be okay. it's not your fault daddy liked to rub his penis on your colon after a night of milwaukee's best and a session of wifeboxing. it's okay danny boy..


God man, your right. I should not supress these thoughts and feeling anymore. Ok I admit it. I have sex with parents. Though you didn't get the story completely right. My father died when my mother was pregnet, then my mother died a few days after I was born becaue my huge dick tour her insides as I was coming out. Being raised in an orphenage left a kind of hole as well. Then, I met diaper_tails mother. She acted like a mother to me. Diaper_tales's mother always had me penetrate her with anal sex. She never like vignal sex, because she said if her ass wasn't bleeding and she wasn't crying, she wasn't satisfied. Though I never tasted her food, she was a good cook. Everything she made had to at least have least 3,000 calories in it. That is why she is so obease and hidious looking.

About once a night (useally more then once), after a few of thouse "milwaukee's best" I am able to go sneak up behind her and ass rape her while she is yelling "no, please stop!" I know that is just her way of saying I love you Dan. The way she always screems and trys to fight back tells me that she loves me better then my son.

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3778407)

what happens next? me dying to hear mooororooreee!! are you gonna tell us about crying in the bathtub because you're a fat_sl0b, or about punching holes in your bedroom hallway due to your uncontrollable childish fits of rage, or about feeling like shit for days on end because some girls yelled "h3Y BABY!! <3" out of their car as they rolled past while you were waiting at the bus stop? how does the saga of dan1mantheman unfold? grrkkrk *sploosh*

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3778145)

-1 is where the '1337 hang out.......
if you dont use IE, you dont get PWPs.
so, you, a veteran slashbot uses windows!

ladies and gentlemen, this person uses WINDOWS!
own3d by MICROSOFT!

!!ATTN MODERATORS!!!!
YOU MUST MOD ALL DanThe1Man's POSTS DOWN!
He uses windows!

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (-1)

diaper_tales (575224) | about 12 years ago | (#3778225)

i use windows 2. nt4ws 4 life dawg!

Re:Where can I Dowload a free Lindows ISO? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3778966)

If you can't figure out how to get it, I won't tell you.

But don't bother. I tried it out. Here's what I found:
  • 2.4.18 kernel
  • GNU/Debian base (/etc/debian_version says 3.0, but it looks like it's based off of woody)
  • lilo version 22.1
  • KDE version 2.2.2 (windows9x theme)
  • WINE version looks to be custom (wine-lindows) based off of codeweavers 20010731)
Anything else?

He's not worn out yet (2, Interesting)

Antity (214405) | about 12 years ago | (#3777787)

From the interview:

7. Where do you see Lycoris in one year from now? What are the plans for the company itself?

Joseph Cheek: We'll be bigger, stronger, and come with extra whitening power. Seriously, we just plan to grow and grow.

People saying things like this obviously aren't experiencing financial problems yet. ;-)

Slashdot - now in widescreen!!! by pwpbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777798)

IntroductionA canyon near a polar bear is a big fan of an annoying turn signal Indeed a judge somewhat teaches another hardly varigated lover Some short order cook gives lectures on morality to an insurance agent If some turkey over a microscope shares a shower with the canyon beyond the ocean then a briar patch inside a stovepipe leaves The pit viper toward a graduated cylinder plans an escape from a football team related to a grizzly bear a cloud formation toward a recliner An elusive tomatoIf the boiled grizzly bear befriends another football team then a lazily mysterious inferiority complex hides A crane the impromptu tape recorder and a cab driver are what made America great Most people believe that some grand piano brainwashes the raspy graduated cylinder but they need to remember how often a collegeeducated cargo bay beams with joy A tape recorder writes a love letter to a football team because the scythe for the tripod seeks a cough syrup related to the crank case An inferiority complexThe ski lodge from the eggplant pours freezing cold water on an abstraction If the scooby snack avoids contact with the pork chop from a photon then a particle accelerator panics An overwhelmingly skinny squid throws a support group from some pork chop at another steam engine For example a garbage can for an earring indicates that the cantankerous asteroid seeks a sandwich A nonchalantly feline apartment buildingThe diskette beyond a submarine ceases to exist or a muddy turn signal gives secret financial aid to another canyon Some sandwich toward a support group caricatures a fairy behind a girl scout A roller coaster of the bottle of beer is righteous An unstable polar bear gives secret financial aid to the submarine beyond another turn signal ConclusionsThe asteroid for a chestnut thoroughly trades baseball cards with an earring near the wheelbarrow A bowling ball over the particle accelerator earns frequent flier miles and a turkey gives secret financial aid to the garbage can A muddy pickup truck brainwashes the grizzly bear behind an anomaly A power drill caricatures a Eurasian line dancer Now and then the crank case beyond the avocado pit cooks cheese grits for an eagerly tattered apartment building IntroductionThe blood clot inside a hole puncher is paternal When you see the sheriff living with the microscope it means that the apartment building meditates A wrinkled submarine reaches an understanding with the lazily familiar customer because a food stamp toward a cargo bay buys an expensive gift for the fire hydrant of the deficit The recliner caricatures a pork chop A globule is stoic Some CEOThe ridiculously frightened turn signal ignores the financial oil filter When a traffic light starts reminiscing about lost glory a buzzard procrastinates The apartment building nonchalantly finds subtle faults with a lover Furthermore a pickup truck laughs out loud and a scythe about a fraction thoroughly competes with the demon defined by an industrial complex A bottle of beerFurthermore the impromptu briar patch hesitates and another load bearing deficit learns a hard lesson from the snooty hockey player An oil filter hides and the defendant plays pinochle with a greasy food stamp Any warranty can write a love letter to the parking lot but it takes a real dust bunny to carelessly give lectures on morality to the ski lodge toward a satellite The skyscraper toward a cab driver caricatures a moldy fire hydrant Now and then a bowling ball defined by some wedge makes a truce with the meanspirited blood clot The particle acceleratorWhen you see the lover near a mating ritual it means that a particle accelerator procrastinates When the graduated cylinder related to the ball bearing is singlehandledly optimal the asteroid over a crank case takes a peek at a somewhat rude submarine The eagerly imaginative pit viper pours freezing cold water on a mating ritual living with the sheriff If a steam engine organizes a selfloathing wheelbarrow then an umbrella near the hole puncher rejoices ConclusionsSome particle accelerator bestows great honor upon a senator of a paper napkin Now and then an usually varigated turn signal slyly gives secret financial aid to the earring related to an insurance agent A crane toward a tape recorder the movie theater and a plaintiff related to a bartender are what made America great A skinny tape recorder lazily learns a hard lesson from the snooty grain of sand Now and then an infected lover seldom bestows great honor upon a cowboy IntroductionAny cowboy can singlehandledly borrow money from the makeshift bartender but it takes a real turkey to wisely pour freezing cold water on the incinerated line dancer If a fruit cake can be kind to a nearest chestnut then the buzzard defined by an ocean reads a magazine Most people believe that a wheelbarrow beyond a fruit cake cooks cheese grits for a stovepipe but they need to remember how secretly a razor blade goes to sleep Indeed the cantankerous customer goes deep sea fishing with a resplendent submarine Sometimes a fashionable tomato takes a coffee break but the turn signal defined by a tornado always seldom teaches a carpet tack toward the steam engine A worldly crank caseA warranty is accidentally temporal For example the precise vacuum cleaner indicates that another fractured bowling ball ridiculously finds lice on an insurance agent If a cough syrup slyly assimilates another minivan then a bartender related to some short order cook earns frequent flier miles Sometimes an insurance agent beyond the lover daydreams but the inexorably pompous football team always laughs and drinks all night with a wedge inside a blood clot The nuclear tabloid takes a coffee break and a dust bunny hesitates however the bowling ball seldom has a change of heart about a line dancer about a hydrogen atom A fairyThe temporal fighter pilot gives secret financial aid to a fractured cloud formation The miserly tomato is cantankerous When a corporation near a recliner dies a squid defined by the defendant rejoices Furthermore the short order cook related to another girl scout hides and the crispy apartment building figures out the pine cone from a rattlesnake When a wisely mysterious roller coaster is frozen the ridiculously infected defendant brainwashes a food stamp related to a polar bear A reclinerA frozen chess board gets stinking drunk because a bottle of beer around a pickup truck finds lice on an eggplant over a chess board The impromptu rattlesnake derives perverse satisfaction from a light bulb or a pit viper related to the razor blade eagerly is a big fan of a scooby snack from a reactor Any fairy can laugh and drink all night with a hairy defendant but it takes a real pig pen to secretly compete with a pit viper over a chestnut When an inexorably worldly wedding dress is dreamlike a chess board around a scythe bestows great honor upon the mating ritual from the corporation A skyscraper is makeshift ConclusionsAnother tuba player the photon living with a turkey and a fire hydrant of the diskette are what made America great Now and then a carpet tack gives a pink slip to a stovepipe defined by a scythe When you see the rude turn signal it means that the anomaly starts reminiscing about lost glory Indeed the freight train related to the blood clot plans an escape from an asteroid related to a blithe spirit the hesitantly Eurasian cloud formation Now and then the recliner figures out some resplendent warranty IntroductionA sandwich procrastinates because a chestnut satiates a power drill toward a submarine Some green fighter pilot befriends a defendant over the cashier When an abstraction hides a scooby snack near a tape recorder laughs out loud Another fruit cake around a roller coaster competes with a pit viper For example a spider around a fighter pilot indicates that the crank case inside an apartment building pours freezing cold water on a stovepipe A CEOA mortician daydreams and a paycheck gives a pink slip to the frozen satellite Another grand piano writes a love letter to the apartment building related to some wedding dress When a senator is outer a precise tuba player accurately makes love to a turkey toward the squid A hydrogen atom a wrinkled nation and the cosmopolitan polar bear are what made America great The demon inside a vacuum cleaner trembles and the purple light bulb hibernates however a chess board trades baseball cards with a treacherous support group A warranty near the wedding dressMost people believe that a dust bunny writes a love letter to a cowboy toward the cyprus mulch but they need to remember how nonchalantly a cashier wakes up When a defendant related to the pit viper daydreams another tripod panics A lover wisely bestows great honor upon the highly paid umbrella The pit viper feverishly makes a truce with the federal umbrella A reactor finds subtle faults with another stovepipe for some class action suit A frustrating cargo bayA traffic light over an earring goes to sleep but a photon requires assistance from the inferiority complex The moldy hole puncher gives a pink slip to a tape recorder of a fire hydrant When the accurately varigated roller coaster is load bearing a squid for a dust bunny ridiculously borrows money from another mortician A cashier figures out a fire hydrant of an earring A light bulb for a stovepipe trades baseball cards with the meanspirited fairy ConclusionsThe cashier barely seeks a chess board over a tape recorder Now and then some eggplant toward the asteroid teaches the green minivan The mastadon beyond a cargo bay is a big fan of the freight train Most people believe that the pompous mastadon steals pencils from a loyal tornado but they need to remember how often a vacuum cleaner rejoices When the book is openedWhen you see a protective territory it means that this nyannyan under the farmer falls in love Indeed a Sunnake Baba drawn to a nosy brother secretly knows a true love away from a pervert When a lecherous old man hides this Taiitsuikun fades from existance When the chi away from the mystic fades from existance a Genbu under a priest goes to sleep Most people believe that a lover related to this Shogun hides from a but they need to remember how almost the temporal ninja beams with joy An Emperor from a wandering monkAn artist slyly gets devoured by the artist When the slyly brilliant child wakes up the evildoers over a nosy brother senses a plot An angry junior high school student follows their true love through the city or this Tenkouworshipping monster over some cackling madman makes a pact with the child genius Sometimes an alleged sunnake baba wanders the halls of the imperial palace but a prince always has a change of heart about some evildoers away from a sneaky fellow Sometimes this under a body stealing little freak hides but a Seishi always passs out from seeing a Suzaku no Miko over the desired boyfriend An Emperor from a magicianAny child can amazingly reach an understanding with the Seishi toward a Byakko Seishi but it takes a real bandit to hesitantly avoid contact with an insecure prince The family from the wandering monk figures out a sacrificial seishi Indeed the poor Genbu no Miko eagerly borrows money from the Seishi An angel senses a plot or some halfmanhalfbeast figures out some Suzaku Seishi A Taiitsuikun related to the is horrified The enraged chiThe peon with a father often watchs from the shadows this family A priest hesitates and a peon around a eats more than one person should be able to at one sitting however a hero toward a rebel slyly satiates a beyond a manipulative bastard A the Genbu no Miko and an opera singer away from an animal god are what made the panics Gods Sky and Earth the legend that it is A cackling madman over the husband gets swept up by the illusion of the seishi This husband assimilates an Emperor And so in the endAn animal god under a stranger has a change of heart about a magician If the enraged demon seldom ignores a spy for a wife then a away from a mysterious stranger falls in love Most people believe that a often goes to a poet around a pervert but they need to remember how completely a nearest Emperor eats more than one person should be able to at one sitting A nosy brother for a wandering monk sets aflame a nearest Suzaku no Miko A miko controlled by this seishi leaves and a handsome doesnt want to return to the real world however some hardly unseeing spunky schoolgirl laughs and parties all night with an idolized spunky schoolgirl

-pwpbot

Re:Slashdot - now in widescreen!!! by pwpbot (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777959)

please create an account so you can post informatively at +1 (+2 on tuesdays)

On the subject of Lindows (3, Insightful)

DaneelGiskard (222145) | about 12 years ago | (#3777799)

Did anyone yet take a closer look on them? Is everything they do in accordance to the respective licenses? I know that they are using a lot of GPL programs, but the only source code I can find is here

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_categori es . hp?category=29

and it doesn't seem to be much.

Also, one can only download (often GPL'd) software from them if he pays them a fee to access this software

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_categori es . hp

is that ok too?

Don't get me wrong. I'm a linux enhtusiast too and would love if linux finally came to the desktop and I would also love seeing a company making money with desktop linux...but I have a strange feeling about the legality of what lindows does....can anyone enlighten me? Or just join the discussion?

Re:On the subject of Lindows (2, Insightful)

ObviousGuy (578567) | about 12 years ago | (#3777806)

You only get the source if you get the binaries. You don't get the binaries from Lindows unless you pay them.

Nothing to see here.

Re:On the subject of Lindows (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777875)

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Re:On the subject of Lindows (1)

|<amikaze (155975) | about 12 years ago | (#3778902)

He knows exactly what he's talking about. You only get the source if you get the binaries. Until you get ahold of the binaries, you have no right to the source.

Re:On the subject of Lindows (2)

DanThe1Man (46872) | about 12 years ago | (#3777883)

If anyone finds Lindows binaries for free as in beer downloading, please mirror your post here http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=349 62&cid=3777786 [slashdot.org] since I won't being following this thread. Thanks.

Re:On the subject of Lindows (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3777999)

my god, are you unable to change your view to nested, or change your userprefs to see if you get a reply?
you are a real lame ass.
get a clue.
ps, i will not be following this thread, please post it to this forum [goatse.cx]

did i say forum?
sorry, i meant ASS.

Re:On the subject of Lindows (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3778298)

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Re:On the subject of Lindows (2)

DaneelGiskard (222145) | about 12 years ago | (#3777826)

And what about that paragraph from the article then: ?

LindowsOS is based on a distribution of Linux, which is covered by a license that requires it to be made freely available for modification and redistribution. However, a system designer who used an unlicensed version of LindowsOS would not be able to use Lindows.com's logo or join the LindowsOS Certification program, and would receive no technical support.

GPL Misquoted - Film at 11! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777984)

This is just another case of someone misunderstanding or misquoting the GPL.

Short correct version re distribution only:

If you distribute, you must distribute the source or,

if you distribute the binary, you must distribute the source with it or,

if you don't distribute the source with the binary, you must make the source available to the people you distributed the binary to at no extra charge (I believe small media charge is allowed IIRC)

It is YOUR CHOICE as to whether you charge for the original distribution or not. These rights for source pass to the people who get the software, not to the world at large.

BTW - I am a big time GPL supporter and appreciator and don't like it when people try to wriggle out of their obligations, but it would be better if we actually understood what those obligations are.

A Nony Mouse ~;-)

Re:GPL Misquoted - Film at 11! (2)

karmawarrior (311177) | about 12 years ago | (#3778541)

Try the GPL quiz [gnu.org] here. What you're writing is what I thought too, until I took it.

The provision of source code regardless of whether someone purchases the binaries or receives them for free is not optional - as long as you release copies publically, you must provide the source code for no more than a nominal copying/mail fee. This is covered in the GPL faq [gnu.org] :

What does this "written offer valid for any third party" mean? Does that mean everyone in the world can get the source to any GPL'ed program no matter what?

"Valid for any third party" means that anyone who has the offer is entitled to take you up on it.

If you commercially distribute binaries not accompanied with source code, the GPL says you must provide a written offer to distribute the source code later. When users non-commercially redistribute the binaries they received from you, they must pass along a copy of this written offer. This means that people who did not get the binaries directly from you can still receive copies of the source code, along with the written offer.

The reason we require the offer to be valid for any third party is so that people who receive the binaries indirectly in that way can order the source code from you.

That's tortourous English, which is probably one of the reasons why the quiz asks the same questions.

Re:On the subject of Lindows (2)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about 12 years ago | (#3778126)

Also, one can only download (often GPL'd) software from them if he pays them a fee to access this software .... is that ok too?

In a word - yes. Running package repositories isn't cheap you know, it needs bandwidth and that costs money. In the case of Debian, the FSF pays for it. In the case of SourceForge VA Software pay for it (uh oh). I think it's pretty reasonable for Lindows to ask you to pay for access to a service that costs money to run.

Re:On the subject of Lindows (2)

DanThe1Man (46872) | about 12 years ago | (#3778463)

Also, one can only download (often GPL'd) software from them if he pays them a fee to access this software .... is that ok too?

In a word - yes. Running package repositories isn't cheap you know, it needs bandwidth and that costs money.


They want $100 for them to upload a 700mg file? Who is their ISP, Microsoft?

Re:On the subject of Lindows (-1)

Yr0 (224662) | about 12 years ago | (#3778560)

OMFG, LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

Re:On the subject of Lindows (2)

Hard_Code (49548) | about 12 years ago | (#3778939)

"700mg file"

700 milligrams? I don't know about that...it could be over their daily allowance.

History repeats itself (5, Interesting)

pieterh (196118) | about 12 years ago | (#3777802)

This reminds me so much of the period before Win3.0 came out. Lots of companies making valiant efforts to produce the 'best desktop'. IIRC, Microsoft beat them all largely because it produced VB and with it, a way for millions of amateur developers to make Windows applications.

I remember using GEOS, a GUI that kicked Windows' ass mightily. I remember trying to find tools to build GEOS applications. Zilch.

Today, Windows is totally out of reach of amateur developers. It is one of the most complex development environments imaginable. And Microsoft seems to be heading at full speed towards even more complexity with every new technology it brings out.

This creates a wonderful opportunity. Instead of aiming for 'end users', Linux desktops should aim at amateur developers who want a free and simple workbench for writing the kinds of applications that made Windows 3.1 rule the world.
Imagine a really simple programming environment for excellent web applications, running on a database that is as easy to use as Access, with as many widgets as you can dream of.

This is the kind of thing that will start the revolution. Not cheaper Window-like boxes.

Re:History repeats itself (1)

Tune (17738) | about 12 years ago | (#3777953)

[...] Instead of aiming for 'end users', Linux desktops should aim at amateur developers [...]

Very good point. Though I think Windows' popularity stems from Microsoft's marketing, rather than its advantage to amateur developers, this is the thing that will attract amateur devels. To them, Linux has a "cool" rather a "complicated" image. In reality, however, Linux is far more complicate, primarily because it doesn't have a "clean singleminded" design and because good documentation is lacking.

What we need is a good development distro that includes stuff like Kylix, or a downsized Glade/CodeWarrior rather than StarOffice or WordPerfect.

What simple, yet powerful tools exist for Linux only?

Re:History repeats itself (1)

nelsonal (549144) | about 12 years ago | (#3778827)

It is mostly about the applications that are available, including those made by the little developers. The executives make no bones about this, they firmly believe that much of microsoft's success builds on their developer support. This is actually what the anti-trust case centered on. In Microsoft executive's mind Netscape's plan was to use java and the internet to deliver an application platform that didn't matter what was beneath it. This would of course greatly reduce the value of MS Windows, and so they killed the competitor. Linux certainly has great developer support, and I believe that that is why Microsoft is fighting so hard against the GPL, it also reduces the value of the platform, since anyone can port GPL software to another platform. Also, Linux has attracted the developer population much faster than the general population.

Re:History repeats itself (2)

DanThe1Man (46872) | about 12 years ago | (#3777958)

This is the kind of thing that will start the revolution. Not cheaper Window-like boxes.

Yea, I agree with you. But that shouldn't slow down Linux desktop development. I think user-friendly devolpment tools and user-friendly end-user support are very-importaint to midly-importaint, repestively.

One thing to keep in mind is that everyone and their grandma wasn't useing 3.1 like they were 95+. The internet plays a significant part in that, but I still think it shows taht a good user-interface is part of the revolutionary process as well.

Okay let's do some research... (1)

StarbuckZero (237897) | about 12 years ago | (#3778052)


Well we have the nice easy to use desktop, now we need to come up with some easy to use development tools. While I'm a Linux user and have been for over 2 years now I never develop or help develop anything. I did on the other hand look into Borland's Kylix [borland.com] for the simple fact that it's rapid development just like VB and it has a nice pretty little IDE. On top of that they have Open Edition for amateur or hobbyist programmers. For something kind of like Access I think Data Architect [thekompany.com] from theKompany looks like a nice tool. Then again that's just me, I'm sure you can find a ton of tools and IDEs for Linux of you just looked.

Go for it (1)

Peter Harris (98662) | about 12 years ago | (#3778168)

Language - Python
IDE -IDLE
SDL libraries - Pygame
OpenGL - PyOpenGL
Simple GUI - Tkinter
Complex GUI - wxPython

All free, of course, and conveniently packaged for Linux.

Note to budding developers: wait no longer, go for it!

Re:History repeats itself (3, Informative)

Veteran (203989) | about 12 years ago | (#3778231)

Did Geos kick Window's ass? Oh yes, Geos was written in 8086 assembler - it was much tighter and faster than Windows, and a total embarrassment to Microsoft. Even had Geos released the API it would have been out of reach of most developers - professional or otherwise; most programmers can't write applications in assembly. Because of the 640 K non protected mode limit on OS and applications, the programs would have needed to be either very elementary or written in assembly to fit. (It would have been possible to do something with LIM memory to have paged non running programs out to additional memory the way Lotus paged out sections of 123.)

At the time Geos was started it was a good idea; there were many 808X computers in use that did not have protected mode available so there was a much bigger market for a Geos type system than for something which used protected mode. By the time it hit the market the situation had changed: many people had 286's or better with protected mode capabilities.

Windows existed as a non protected mode version before 3.0 but it was a useless flop. It wasn't until a (286) protected mode version of Windows was made that it became successful.

Remember that a protected mode operating system from Microsoft had existed for a considerable period of time: OS/2. The main reason that OS/2 didn't win is that its DOS computability was very poor, and that few people had written apps for the GUI; so the perception of the public was that you couldn't do much with it. Microsoft created the perception in the minds of the public that Windows had better DOS computability and that there were more programs for Windows.

Inside of Microsoft everybody knew the reality: which was that OS/2 was far superior to Windows as an operating system - after all Microsoft had written most of OS/2. With Windows, Microsoft saw a chance to cut IBM off at the knees; which they did. Had people's perceptions come closer to reality Windows would have been dismissed as a poor joke and OS/2 would have won the day.

Microsoft knows from experience (reinforced with W95 vs OS/2 Warp) that inferior products can win in the market place as long as the public doesn't know that they are inferior. Microsoft knows that no matter how good any variant of Linux actually is as long as people perceive that Windows is better that they are home free. For example Red Hat is easier to install than Windows - but most people don't know that because they don't install Windows.

When your perceptions match reality it is difficult to see the world from the perspective of the vast majority of humanity - who live in the reality distortion field which caused by a lack of understanding.

The Linux community is faced with a fundamental problem: the difficulty of raising the educational level of the masses to a sufficient level that they can understand the reality of Linux vs Microsoft; as Microsoft has repeatedly demonstrated a plausible lie is a much easier sell than an implausible truth.

Re:History repeats itself (1)

Kunta Kinte (323399) | about 12 years ago | (#3778514)

I agree.

I was a bit disappointed when redhat stopped installing gcc in the base install a while back and when they just recently started surpressing core dumps without a simple gui to turn it back on. A newbie + a core file + core analysis program ( eg. bug-buddy ) can be a wealth of info for a open source programmer, and a lot of the time is just about the only way to get pertinent information from some absolute newbies.

I bet if they polled their users there would be a overwelming majority of users that installed gcc or at least tried to after a base install. Maybe to install a random program from SRPM or something.

Why does this matter? Redhat linux is becoming less and less of an attractive testing platform. To get crash analysis information from newbie users, I have to walk them through
(i) installing gcc - because no unstripped binaries are made available.
(ii)build
(iii)enable global core dumps

It rarely ever works out with absolute newbies. :)

Redhat and a lot of OS projects are just mimicking microsoft's moves instead of focusing on our unique advantages. I believe the distro that corrects this, and does it well, will get a significant share of Redhat's market.

Re:History repeats itself (2)

Hard_Code (49548) | about 12 years ago | (#3778879)

"It is one of the most complex development environments imaginable."

Well, you better start sweating, because .NET is going to be a big improvement. It's sad to say, but does Open Source have to show in the realm of "helping amateur developers"? (yeah yeah, use the source luke, but nothing that is as integrated as .NET or Java). We've largely ignored "Let's Make Unix Not Suck" and instead are still down the path of "Let's Make Unix Suck But More Efficiently and Faster!"

Redhat needs to... (-1)

OklaKid (552472) | about 12 years ago | (#3777807)

Redhat needs to make their distro be able to more easily add other Desktop WMs, as it stands now with 7.3 Redhat dropped Enlightenment, and now only comes with KDE, Gnome, and WindowMaker, (twm if you can stand to use it), what i do with Redhat7.3 is i uncheck Gnome, and leave KDE unchecked too, so there is no WM except for twm (yuck) then i install Blackbox and run switchdesk, then Xclients-default will have to manually edited to point to /usr/bin/blackbox, because the switchdesk command only looks in /usr/X11R6/bin for WMs... one other thing, if Redhat does to its distro what Mandrake & SuSE done with theirs, i will be looking for another distro, because i have had nothing but grief with Mandrake & SuSE because their distro specific hand-holding applications totally suck and cause more problems than good... can we say Slackware???

Re:Redhat needs to... (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about 12 years ago | (#3777866)

"what i do with Redhat7.3 is i uncheck Gnome, and leave KDE unchecked too, so there is no WM except for twm (yuck) then i install Blackbox and run switchdesk, then Xclients-default will have to manually edited to point to /usr/bin/blackbox, because the switchdesk command only looks in /usr/X11R6/bin for WMs"

I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but this sort of techobabble spew is exactly why Linux will not gain any significant market share over Windows as a desktop OS.

Re:Redhat needs to... (-1)

OklaKid (552472) | about 12 years ago | (#3777974)

hey rudy, anyone, including me, you and everyone else, are only going to get out of a computer what you put in to it... if someone is too ignorent to open a script file and edit it with a text editor then maybe they should stay away from computers and stick to watching television, and if someone is dissatisfied with their computer the way it is then they should do something about it (find a solution & fix it), i seen tech BBSs, usenet, and other places for help where some Windoze user is complaing about their computer using vague terms that no one on earth could figure out, (some people are just not getting it when it comes to computers and it don't matter if it is Windoze or Linux they just don't have what it takes to figure em out) like my mother i could show her step by step how to copy & paste and a few minutes later she forgets, but she can make anything on a sewing machine better, than can be bought in a clothing store, but if i got on a sewing machine i would probably drive the needle thru my finger...

Funny claim... (4, Interesting)

gentix (559742) | about 12 years ago | (#3777819)

The article claims that "Red Hat is warming to the use of the Linux operating system on desktop computers, a difficult market where customers are picky and Microsoft is the leader."

Most customers aren't that picky, but just go along with the mainstream of users and do not understand the power of open source systems such as Linux. The majority just wants text processing software, solitaire, and some internet capabilities, and seem to think Microsoft software is user friendly and Linux software is complex as hell. If customers were in fact picky, Microsoft would have a very hard time competing with these open source software systems, since they provide more stability and speed at much lower cost. How's that for user-friendly? Easy of use is becoming less of an issue in later distributions of Linux and and you don't have these big-brother issues as with XP and the coming Palladium...

No, customers being "picky" hasn't got much to do with it, but many customers are just ignorant.

How user friendly is it to have to push "start" in order to shut down a computer anyway?

Re:Funny claim... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777885)

How user friendly is it to have to push "start" in order to shut down a computer anyway?

Obviously, it's not the problem you think it is. My six year old has known how to shut down her computer for years. It may not be the first place a user would look, but if you show them once.

Windows raises a lot of questions, but Linux isn't the answer for most users. Microsoft is busily answering thoses questions, though.

Customers (MIS depts) or users? (3, Insightful)

crovira (10242) | about 12 years ago | (#3778163)

Users, being stuck in the office on nice days, having to schlep to the office on nasty ones, occasionally confronting the BSoD, having to put up with their idiot colleagues, Hell, having to work at all, have no love for M$ or much of anything else work related.

M$ may not be kidding itself about that but I suspect that the reality distortion field around Bill Gates these days makes the one around Steve Jobs look like clear-eyed, realistic pragmatism.

Users don't like M$. The great majority of them hate it. Its work.

Customers, the OEM who just want to shove boxes out the door and make enough dough to pay the rent and DP/MIS/IT deparments, on the other hand are applying the same rules that gave rise to M$ in the first place:
1) nobody ever got fired for buying IBM quickly followed by
2) nobody ever got fired for saving money which created the clones, and M$.

Usability was a secondary concern at the time. Remember all those books about DOS and the command line?

Visicalc opened the office door, Lotus 123 swept in followed by WordPerfect and M$ became an expert at ripping off other people's IP.

And nothing much has happened since except in niches like desktop publishing, graphics, (now Apple is doing it again with video editing,) email and the web which didn't depend on M$ in the first place.

Given the downward direction of the ROI and upward direction of the acquisition and support costs of an M$ box, M$ will disappear when Linux becomes just "good enough." Not even, uh, "Insanely Great," but just good enough.

OpenOffice, a free OS that any MSCE can install on existing boxes to extend their usable life (even by a single year,) and cheap site-wide licences will destroy M$ on the desktop almost as quickly as the switch to the x86 destroyed Digital Research, who never made it off the -80 architecture.

The switch to a new architecture on the server side is starting to worry M$ too since they have nothing real ported to it anyway. (NT in x86 emulation on the Itanium architecture? Naw, I think, we'll go Unix or Linux.)

I should be smelling fear from Redmond but since M$ has billions in the bank and can survive a change in course, in direction and in what sea they swim in, they won't disappear.

Linux is "sorta" user friendly (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3778633)

--Linux is fun, I've been using it for several months now, but it sure isn't as raw newbie user friendly as either microsoft or mac OS. Example, a glaring one, out of the box ability to actually get on the internet and to actually have a functional firewall. I've been using the previous OS's for many years, actually RTFM, and still had a major tussle to make the dang boxen dial out on a simple PPP conection. Then I had the fun of becoming an instant security administrator. I still have the problem of the box losing the modem "awareness" I'll call it with a shutdown, have to delete the modem, then re-find it to get it to work on a new boot up. The two shipped "firewall configurators" I've used with redhat and mandrake were very difficult for a newb to use. Mandrake I was never able to get to actually work, I was NEVER able to get online with it, and redhat I had to reload OS several times, had to go to an outside GUI front end to configure the firewall. Catch 22, you need to actually BE on the internet to go accomplish these tasks. A lot of people have ONE computer. I am more patient and enjoy learning about the computer itself, but here's the "but" MOST people want to use the tool, not hand design the tool. Computers are tools. When I go to the hardware store, I don't want a "tool-kit to learn how to build a tool". I don't want to have to learn to dig raw iron ore and develop the blast furnace and learn to forge and harden just to have a set of socket wrenches.

Same deal with "das kompooter". Linux is still making you do this. Most people do not want to do this. clue stick time. I don't mind myself, because I have several boxen and when I get frustrated I can reach one foot over to a mac and actually do something, and it's easy. That's worth a few bucks to me, and I have spent it in the past. Even windows isn't that hard to really use, I don't LIKE windows, but I can use it, and it's not that hard to find a firewall and use it. linux? Exxcuuse me, but firewalling is still a major issue.

I built a nice tower for a friend, made it dual boot, two HDD's, windoze and linux. I eventually told him to stop using linux because I was tired of going over there trying to get it to dial out for him. He's not a geek but runs a rather large business, several locations, he makes the final decisons on "computers" for his company and employees, and I can guarantee he's not gonna go with linux any time soon. I did my best guys, but it ain't happening. He's owned computers himself for a long time, I think around 15 years, and honestly he couldn't figure out how to use linux to do even simple tasks. He'snot stoopid, is a multi millionaire, does 'complex" things every day or he wouldn't be a multi millionaire, runs PGP and allsorts of programs all the time, etc, etc and linux was a dead end stumper for him, and I wasn't able to help. He owns around 6 personal boxen himself, windows and macs. His company, I don't know, a lot though. Many employees, it's a retail chain, clerks, secretaries, bean counters, you name it. I wasn't able to help enough. When he couldn't make it work his comment was "this looks cool but it's crap" He popped the full price for his copy, and isn't about to throw any money away on it again. And I had to agree. Linux is NOT non sys admin or non coder friendly, not yet anyway. It LOOKS like it is from the GUI facade.

Windows or mac you can at least get the CD, stick it in, they work, dial out. He popped the full price for the redhat install, I tried in vain to get any help from them including faxes-ignored. I spent hours and hours and hours in a vain web search for info that was easy enough to understand to use. I finally made it "work" but it was a serious pain in the ass, and the onlyreason I did is because I like to fool around with this stuff, but even I reached my "aggravation" level faster with linux than with any other OS I had ever used. You can't use up2date if your box won't dialout. You can't find out info if you can't get online, and the man ppages are written in code-lish that the average person is not going to be able to use because this problem requires this set of acronyms which means go to another entire set of man pages, which lead to another, yet another, about 5 or 6 levels in you've lost track of the original problem. See? Well, I made his box dial out three times (normal external modem, not a winmodem, so that isn't the issue), now it's quit, and frankly, I'm tired of fooling with it for him, and tired of reloading the OS. I just plain don't want to go into a code editor and try to tweak PAP and CHAP and whatnot. The box I am on now I can make work, but 99.99% of people out there will throw it away after one hour if it can't do this simple task, they could care less how many themes or desktop eye candy dealie widgets ship with a distro. The other major companies, again, windows and mac, got this down 15 years ago or so to make it work as advertised.

This is real world testing here, take it for what it's worth.

I ADMIT to being a n00b, but sheesh gosh and gomorrah, the average joe blow home consumer doesn't want 6,789 programs they don't even know what they do and 99% of them are betaware. I've been a pooter user since the 80's, but I'm NOT a coder. Not any raging desire either. I got actual work to do, if I wanted to be a professional coder guess I would have picked that career field, but I didn't. I got things to do, I will do *some* tweaking and learning, but I'm not going to spend hours every day doing this, NOR will this "most people" that the phrase "home desktop market" represents. It ain't happening, so stop wishing it will, because it won't. If this means 7/8ths of the distros out there have to be abandoned, I recommend you coder guys do this as soon as possible or your linux experiment is gonna continue to spring leaks and sink, at least on the home market. Yep, walmart shipping with some linux is cool, but after two weeks when they get brought back to the customer service deak with "it don't work" that experiment is gonna end, too.

Linux works IF an ubergeek sets it up for you and can do the almost constant tweaking. Big hint to linux developers trying to make money-most home users aren't going to hire a 60$ an hour sys admin to keep their boxes running. You coders doing it for fun, well, thankyou, honestly, but don't expect the average joe to really use it either, until it's *not* betaware. Second big hint, the exterior sheet metal on a car and the price as in cheap does not make a good car. cheap is just that, yugos were cheap, but they broke a lot, total ownership experience was dismal, they lasted some time and phased out. Detroit used to ship iron that had gorgeous "skins" -you could get any flavor of what a car looked like you want-but when japanese cars started working better with three times the mileage-guess what? Pretty "skins and themes" lost out to functionality. First major problem on a linux box will mean-bye bye, most folks will switch back to what they had before. They aren't gonna see any benefit from saving a few dollars for something this hard to set up and use. The ease of set up is sorta misleading. yes, it will install just fine usually. After that it'smuch harder to use than the zealots here maintain. Most people aren't coders, if this is forgotten, it will never "take off" like you want it to. If "the community "wants to be taken seriously on the desktop, 3/4ths of the coding projects should cease and the coders switch to a lot more cooperation and standarization should take place with the coding. Have a few votes why don't you, what's to stop that? anarchy is a nice hobby, hint again, it has never workled in the real world, some sort of organized structure usually works with cooperation being the key. Linux has more branches to it then the amazon, and it's getting worse, not better. Much less egos, much more cooperation, insist on standarization to get functionality over form.

Take this for what it's worth, I can think of a lot of people who have "tried" linux and won't even consider it now. I can think of hundreds of people who have "tried" microsoft and mac and will stick to it-even with it's flaws- because it works better for non geeks who don't want to spend their time learning to code.

It's really that simple a problem, too.

Win this (0)

andrew71 (134546) | about 12 years ago | (#3777837)

"The name of the game is Microsoft wins and you lose,"

They'd deserve to be bashed just for this, even if nothing else from them had ever been annoying.

History teaches to the sage they'd better not be bully.

Re:Win this (1)

Glanz (306204) | about 12 years ago | (#3777851)

>> what you mean is "Still, I'm right-wing."

Blue Penguin of Death (0)

andrew71 (134546) | about 12 years ago | (#3777879)

LindowsOS [...] with the goal of allowing Linux to load and run Windows applications. The software has also been criticized for automatically logging users in as "root" [...]

Don't be angry at them, guys. How can you give a user the Full Windows experience when viruses, trojans and alike won't force you reinstall at least once a week???

The question you probably expected (1)

stere0 (526823) | about 12 years ago | (#3777888)

What's your take on the Linux desktop war? situation? Do you think that Gnu/Linux will remain an OS for servers and geeks or that our mothers could some day use it too?

ris Desktop/LX Network Browser TM (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777913)

Did he really write this app himself?

Or can I rebrand ls to:

Cyber 3d Turbo Filesystem Navigator (TM)

heh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777916)

Funny, it has the annoyingly verbose location descriptions on the desktop like Windows with the annoyingly cryptic and randomly placed dirs of Linux behind the scenes. Damn I miss AmigaOS. :(

Gotta Love Slashdot... (2)

CDWert (450988) | about 12 years ago | (#3777925)

Well, 3 sites mentioned on the linux front and the only one that isnt slashdotted is RedHat. Does that prove Lindows is only for the Desktop and not a server enviroment ?

Rocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777928)

"Each major desktop/lx version is named after a rock. Version 1 is Amethyst, version 2 will be Beryl, version 3 will be Citrine, version 4 will be Diamond, and so on."

hehe, i think this guy is on to something. I'm going to name my software after trees :)

But, but, on MSNBC they said Linux was dead... (1)

crovira (10242) | about 12 years ago | (#3777941)

Could they have misspoken?

The livelier Linux gets, the more vociferous and ridiculous the denials from Redmond.

Eventually, the man will hold up his hand and ask us like he did to Winston Smith: "How many fingers am I holding up?"

And we'll chop it off and say "None..."

M$ will never necome Big Brother (Bug Brother? :-) or the Borg. Its too inefficient, insecure and vulnerable.

Re:But, but, on MSNBC they said Linux was dead... (1, Insightful)

puto (533470) | about 12 years ago | (#3778236)

On Slashdot they said that MSNBC said that Linux was dead. Which was far from the trith of the article. Which was unbiased and actually said that Linux was alive and well and making significant inroads into several markets. Example was server market share.

The article said that Linux was having a hard time on the desktop of Joe User. Which is true. Read the article. No where is the word 'dead' used.

I beleive in Linux, use Linux, and promote Linux. But with facts and figures, not misquotes and allegations. Until we all stop fingerpointing without proper cause we are going to have a hard time getting a proper foothold with our beloved Penguin.

Linux now has the same sort of spin doctoring that we accuse MS of. Come on people.

And once again I want to see the Slashdot log files on the browsers that roll in here. And to make it fair since most browse at work and are forced to use windows boxen. We will take a samlimg from 6 pm to 5-am.

Puto

Re:But, but, on MSNBC they said Linux was dead... (1)

bofkentucky (555107) | about 12 years ago | (#3778329)

What timezone? What about the rest of the world

Linux CAN take over the desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3777956)



only 1 thing stands in their way:

If the Linux community can refine the desktop in such a way that the AVERAGE american can install it, configure it, and modify that configuration easily and with a novice level of computer savy THEN Linux is assured of a large chunk (if not all) of the desktop market.

Its that simple.

bottom line is that no one cares what OS they are running as long as:

1) its easy to use as mentioned above
2) its compatible with common formats (read MS office, etc)
3) its cheap
4) they can get support when its necessary without paying an arm and a leg to get that support.

Thats it!

Re:Linux CAN take over the desktop (2)

Lumpy (12016) | about 12 years ago | (#3778103)

already done it's called RH7.3 or Mandrake 8.2

if you cant install either of them then you cant install windows.

redhat 7.3 is so easy to configure that is it easier than Windows 2000 to configure, and 10 times easier than NT4.0 to configure. (Security of RH7.3 is at least 10,000 times easier to configure than any windows product ever created.)

Gnome or KDE, (I suggest KDE) are braindead to use, configure, and operate.

I strongly suggest giving it an exclusive try for 1 weekend. (i reccomend a week for those with the inability to make unbiased decisions)

Re:Linux CAN take over the desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3778931)

--and mac classic had this down over ten years ago, and is even easier to install and use, and as to security, give thyself a break. Linux is NOT secure for the average user. Do the same thing you advised the other poster, actually get a box and use it for a week. I haven't tried osx yet so I can't comment, but good old reliable classic is at least 3 or 4 major generations beyond whatever passes for the latest and greatest in nix world FOR THE NON CODER. Installing apps? You got to be kidding, any way to install an app on any linux is much worse than on a mac. mac requires three clicks TOTAL to get everything and have it work, you NEVER have to type anything. Click once to download, double click to install, and it then goes forth and works and you don't get stuck in library hunt hell. The app shows up, it works. You know that's true, so admit it. Lots more than 50% of the time with nix apps need this or that,spit over your lleft shoulder, spin arouind three times, bark at the moon, cross your fingers, and maybe they might work sorta until next week when the new patch comes out. Windows I won't comment on, but in mac world that stuff just don't exist. Even alpha ware mac apps have worked better for me after download then what I have experienced as "stable" on linux.

Don't get me wrong,I'm "trying" as a non coder to make linux work, but it's still not rerady for non sys admin non coder prime time yet. Eye candy doth not a computing experience make.

dig,most people aren't coders. They don't want to be either. And if you label this a troll, it's just shooting yourself in the foot, you want raw honesty, you just got it, sincerely offered. Mostly I'm dropping a few posts here not for slashdot troll posters and zealots, but in the off-chance some fatcats at the major linux distros just might read it, because this is "joe average customer"speaking, not a fanatic coder.

Hey distro developers, I'll pay for something that works, drop 7/8ths of the programs, pick EITHER gnome or kde but don't try to support both, it's not needed, release a simple easy to use functional distro that isn't 2 or 3 gigs of nonsense and is geared to the desktop, not geared to be a server. Now, price it at 19.99$ retail, IT WILL SELL. Yes, you can still offer the 50-60$ and up "product" but you don't have an entry level product. For what the developers want for entry level, it's a few bucks away from "normal" os. People aren't going to drop the cash on something based on "my nephew's friends who play a lot of games are using linuxx now".

Hint, most people aren't "servers". There isn't a non-server distro simple release from any of the major vendors. I have redhat and mandrake here, both still pretty buggy and fulla stuff I don't even know what it does, most of the apps don't even show up in the menus adequately, and you have no idea what you can delete safely if you don't want it.

FWIW, YMMV

Re:Linux CAN take over the desktop (1)

chaserfromva (580541) | about 12 years ago | (#3778989)

For many linux junkies and whatnot, Red Hat and Mandrake seem really easy to configure and whatnot. The only problem is that most users don't want to configure their system. Even these two distros seem hard. All users want is applications that will work and fairly compatible with everyone else.

They want the OS to automatically configure everything. Lycoris does that, and allows you to play solitare during setup. Most desktop users don't use Win2000 or NT, they use 98 or XP Home. They automatically configure your system in minutes. Joe Shmo doesn't want any hassle or have to think about his computer. He wants to put the CD in, hit a few buttons, and w/in 30 minutes have a nice desktop where he can work. Users don't want to take a week to configure their system, for they could care less. It's a tool, not a toy. Lycoris is easier to setup than Microsoft products and most other distros out there.

Yes there's problems with Lycoris, but it's a step in the right direction if linux has any hope undermining M$ in the desktop market.

Re:Linux CAN take over the desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3778445)

"If the Linux community can refine the desktop in such a way that the AVERAGE american can install it,"
oh nooo... what if I am Mexican... I guess I wont be able to ever see linux in my PC :)

The long and short of it... (2, Insightful)

SkyLeach (188871) | about 12 years ago | (#3778086)

I have posted a lot about this, so I hope I get the opportunity to have this question addressed by the guys who can make a difference.

For the record I would like to say that I hate the way M$ treats its customers, the draconian patents and copyrites, and their business practices. Following that I would like to say that I have Windows installed on nearly every PC in my house (except my firewall) and every non-server PC at work. Here are the reasons:

When I first set up a linux desktop to try it, these problems caused me to recoil from using it:

#1) I had to learn new keystrokes for everything. M$ may be bad, but their choice of keys isn't 3v|L, it's just a standard. It's not a standard because someone agreed to it, but because about 90% of the PC market uses it.

#2) Software install/uninstall is a real problem for people unfamiliar with the platform. Yes, I know what an RPM is and how to use one, but it's flaky to say the least. When I first attempted to start using RPMs they complained about older versions of the utility or app I was installing but (after much searching and downloading) the older RPMs refused to uninstall the older versions, claiming they weren't installed. Is it that hard to wrap the RPM functionality with a GUI and make the latest RPMs uninstall older RPMs?

#3) I don't want to dive into the whole driver issue, but I will go through my nightmare with my latest PC. I installed RedHat 7.2 on a Asus CUV4X Dual PIII motherboard. The apic problem hit me right off, refusing to boot the PC in SMP mode. Something about that problem kept RH from detecting my integrated NIC (an EtherExpress Pro 100). After about 2 days of searching I found the answers I needed, but not the know-how. Luckily, I knew enough about Linux by this time to do the required: Modify my grub.conf file boot line to add the -noapic flag. Once I had rebooted into smp mode I loaded my network driver with insmod e100 and added the alias line to /etc/modules.conf.

4#) Following the above issue, I wanted to be able to watch Divx, Mpeg and Mov files on my desktop. Now .mov (Quicktime) is owned by apple, and they haven't been too kind about giving away the software requierd to get it working on linux, so that I understand. But Divx :-) is an open standard. There are players available. Mpeg is open, and there are players out there. Why doesn't the default desktop install in RH work? KDE? I can't answer that because I still haven't gotten this working.

#5) I wanted to use my scanner with Gimp. I went out looking and discovered this thing called SANE. After a long time in the man pages (I have NEVER IN MY LIFE used the Windows Help file BTW), I figured out enough to try it. Sane was already installed, but it wouldn't detect my scanner. I downloaded and installed the latest sane from source and got it working, but, little surprise, my ScanMaker 3700 didn't work. There were ScanMaker 3600 drivers which claimed that they might work with the 3700, but they didn't. I'm now going through the source for the 3600 and the specs from Microtek to see if I can get my scanner working. I write code for a living so I can do this, what about everyone else?

If I hadn't already spent a lot of time getting to know Linux, I would have given up days before. This isn't the first time I had this much trouble either. Nearly three years ago I bought a copy of Suse, and I flat gave up on using it on my desktop.

I hate to say it, but all other development is secondary to getting a stable, easy to use and learn desktop working. Until then the Linux userbase will be limited. Only people who have either an excessive amount of time and energy to spend learning linux can use the OS in a meaningful fassion.

MOD 'im down (0, Offtopic)

fdisk3hs (513270) | about 12 years ago | (#3778295)

So use what you want, why do we care?

(Self-reporting uber dork, -1)

Re:The long and short of it... (2)

cloudmaster (10662) | about 12 years ago | (#3778312)

1 - use KDE and their windows keymap (lycoris does this by default).

2 - lycoris's update program would take care of this, as would Debian's apt system (which is available for redhat now, too, though it's not completely trivial to set up)

3 - no OS will install flawlessly onto all hardware - if this were windows you'd probably have a harder time finding a workaround. I've had a hell of a time getting windows version X installed onto various pieces of hardware over the years. A couple of those times the problem has been unresolvable.

4 - that's valid. lycoris, however, does work with those things out of the box.

5 - the windows help files are absolutely useless, that's why you've never used them. If you had some hardware that didn't work for windows, would you be able to modify some other TWAIN driver to make it work? The latest version of windows doesn't support every piece of hardware out there either.

Anyway, you should really look into trying lycoris out. It's not right for my uses, but I consider myself pretty knowledgable about linux. It sounds like you just want a desktop that works and has convenient shortcuts for maintenence (which is fine) - lycoris is designed for exactly that need. I tried it a while back and have planned to set up some of my family with it. That should be an adequate endorsement, because anyone who's set up a non-computer-savvy family member with a computer knows how much that family member will call them when things don't work the way things are expected to... :)
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