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DotGNU Meet-a-thon

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the good-gnus dept.

GNU is Not Unix 157

Gopal.V writes "It's time for the Quarterly DotGNU IRC Meet-a-thon. As usual, we'll be having it on #dotgnu on irc.openprojects.net. We will be discussing the current state of DotGNU, where we've gone and where we should be headed. Anyone who is interested should join us. In particular, we are not only looking for developers to be involved in this meet, but also potential DotGNU users. We are very interested in addressing any questions/input from anyone who will one day use our framework. So come one, come all. The last meet was a lot of fun and we expect this this IRC meet will be even better than the last. Again, the IRC meet is taking place on: Server: irc.openprojects.net, Channel: #dotgnu. The meeting will run for a 36 hour period from 22:00 UTC Saturday 29 July 2002 until 10:00 UTC Monday 31 July. Every 4 hours will be an official meet time, when the major DotGNU members will be online. Most discussions will revolve round DotGNU projects and other issues concerning freedom in the new MS initiatives like .NET , and Palladium." I think this announcement may be slightly wrong on the times since it disagrees with the post to the email list; but this is posted as submitted.

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157 comments

PIXY MISA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3792936)

Magical showtime!

Re:PIXY MISA (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 11 years ago | (#3792961)

*** #Lsd: Cannot join #Lsd: (+k) Channel key required.
*** vDbot (lipstick@dialup-209.247.140.110.Dial1.SanJose1.Le vel3.net) has joined channel #|VD|
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*** Deri`gym is now known as Deri`biking
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*** Mode change "+l 20" for channel #|vD| by ChanServ

Mrs John (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3792937)

A surge of adrenaline raced through my body at the sound of her voice. I
couldn't remember whether the hose I was holding started soaking the my
trousers before or after it slipped from my hand and fell dancing down to the grass. It had to have been before I supposed, because the arc of water was rising no higher than my ankle before falling back down directly on the laces of my tennis shoe. It couldn't possibly have drenched my trousers, and the bottom of my shirt I noticed, from where it lay now. It was odd, I remember thinking, how my senses slowly returned one at a time, like someone walking through a house and clicking on lamps. The cold, clinging feeling of the pants leg. The warmth of the August sun on my forehead. The tickle on my cheek as a bead of sweat overcame the friction of skin and a peach-fuzz growth on my cheek and tumbled down my face. The smells of flowers in the garden, and freshly mown grass, and a faint taste of chlorine from the pool next door. And the symphony of summer afternoon sounds; of the water cascading off my tennis shoe; of the rustle of the short trees and bushes in the garden; of a car driving by; of birds chirping; of the splash and laughter from the pool. Each sound distinct, and perfectly clear, as if it were isolated from all others. And the voice, the sound of a voice. My mind raced to collect itself. I remember straining to remember the voice, and why it seemed so damned important right now. My sight at last caught up and resynchronized with my other senses and everything finally fell into place. I remember stupidly jerking my head around in a futile hope that it was all just a dream...that it wasn't true at all. But as I twisted my head to the left, there was Lisa Dobbins, and Kate, and Deborah sunning themselves in lounge chairs by the side of their pool, their young firm breasts scarcely concealed under tight bikini tops. Turning my head back around to examine my soaked clothing
I found my rock hard cock just where I left it, securely in the grip of my
right hand. And finally turning my head slowly again up and to the right to
look at owner of the voice, her eyes wide and lips parted.

Although I'd have a hard time ever convincing anyone of it, I honestly didn't
know about Lisa Dobbins' swimming pool when I offered to water old Mrs.
Johnson's garden on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. I took on the job of watering Mrs. Johnson's yard after reading an ad she'd posted at the campus employment office. "Watering and light garden work. Three hours a week. $3.00/Hr." Our family had known Mrs. Johnson for years, and I remembered her giving my brothers and I quarters and cokes when we'd cut her grass in the summertime. She had an enormous garden beside her house that took up a lot big enough to build another house on comfortably, and I guessed that with her husband passing away several years ago, and with her getting older, probably in her early sixties by now, the place was just getting to be too much for her to handle on her own. She seemed very pleased when I knocked on her door and explained I'd come in response to her ad. She gave me a coke and explained what was to be done in the yard and pressed me for information about my brothers and family. When I'd finished my first day of work she tried to pay me, but I refused, explaining that I was happy to do the work for free. She persisted for a time, but eventually gave in and snapped three limp one-dollar bills back into her change purse. I'd always liked old Mrs. Johnson.

It wasn't until several weeks later that I heard the girl's laughing voices, mixed with the sounds of splashing and Top 40 blasting on the radio, come drift over the hedge. It took a minute of searching before I found a bare spot in the tall dense bushes and peeked through to find the source of the sounds. Mrs. Johnson's garden sat half way up a large steep hill, and looking down across two adjacent yards I saw the pool. When I saw Lisa Dobbins dancing in a bikini next to the pool my cock sprang up so fast and hard I thought it would rip out the fly of my jeans. Describing Lisa as hot was like saying the Rocky Mountains were a bunch of bumps on the ground. She was more than hot, she was unbelievable. She was the first girl in my class at Rivermont Junior High to develop, and she had, hands down, the largest, firmest set of breasts in the entire school. And she knew it too. She was always wearing tight sweaters or blouses with the buttons undone just enough to expose an edge of her lacy white bras. I soiled boxes of tissues that year, and the next, and the next after that fantasizing about Lisa.

Now that it was summer, Lisa was at the pool nearly every afternoon that I
worked in Mrs. Johnson's yard. It was maybe the fourth or fifth time I spied
on her from behind the hedge that my hand, almost beyond my control, unzipped my pants. The thrill of jerking myself off outdoors, that someone might see me, combined with the sensation of the breeze blowing over my naked shaft and the sight of Lisa's huge tits bouncing to the beat of the music was indescribable. I spurted my hot cum into the hedges then stuffed myself quickly back into my pants, looking all around to make sure no one saw me. I guess I'd grown overly confident and less cautious as the summer crept on, and now...

"What in the world..." the voice had said. I looked Mrs. Johnson's surprised expression, and started to follow her gaze until I realized she was staring at the stiff rod of flesh protruding from my hips, then looked quickly back up to study her face. I didn't see what I'd expected. Her eyes and the corners of her lips were smiling through the look of shock on her face, and I relaxed slightly. She seemed to hear the music at that moment and her eyes broke away from my penis for a moment to look up through the bare spot in the hedge. Her face took on a look of understanding as her eyes returned to my cock, still wrapped in my fingers I realized, then back to my face.

"Put that thing away," she instructed in mock severity, "and come on inside so we can dry those clothes."

Still frozen, I watched her turn and start back towards the house. She was
still quite active for a woman of her age. Not fat, but 'thickening,' and her
hair made up in a kind of pageboy style almost touching her shoulders was still dark through the streaks of gray. The creases framing her quick blue eyes described a face that had laughed far more than scowled. Was it my imagination, or were her hips swaying as she walked up the steps to the back porch? I remember thinking it odd how my penis stiffened anew as she paused at the back door to look back at me and wave me inside. I realized stupidly that I was still standing there with a fountain of water pouring down over my left tennis shoe and my cock still clutched in my hand. I quickly stuffed myself back into my pants as my brain scrambled to decide what to do. I could simply walk home and change clothes, but the thought of walking in waterlogged shoes and half-soaked clothes was not appealing. On the other hand, having to go inside her house, and look her in the face again made me redden with shame.

Don't just stand here....do something, I thought to myself. I walked over to
the side of the house and turned off the hose, stood up straight, looked at
the back door, then looked at the gate that led to the sidewalk. What the
hell, I thought, she's already seen me like this, and I do need to dry out my
clothes, and....I started at the realization that my cock was still straining
against the fabric of my jeans. I turned and headed up the back porch steps.

As the back door closed behind me Mrs. Johnson called from somewhere in the house, "Don't go tracking water all through my house. Take your clothes off in the kitchen. I'm coming with a basket." I hesitated for a moment then started removing my clothes, stripping all the way down to my underwear and placing the clothes in a single heap on the tile floor of the kitchen. I was somewhat relieved to discover my prick was calming down slightly and no longer pushing out the front of my underwear. She had her air conditioner running and I shivered briefly as goose bumps erupted all over my body.

I heard her footsteps a second before she appeared in the doorway holding a plastic laundry basket in front of her. She stopped a few feet in front of me and set the basket down next to my pile of wet clothes. I bent down to put the clothes in the basket and detected a scent of perfume that, much to my horror, triggered another erection. I let my eyes dance over her body as I stood back up straight. Painted toenail showing through a pair of sturdy, practical sandals; pants made out of a dark blue elastic material, spandex perhaps, that was loose around her ankles but stretched tighter around her large thighs and ample, rounded hips; a white, button-down blouse, the kind you don't tuck in, that hung straight down around her hips and, like the pants, got tighter the higher you looked; the buttons of the blouse straining to contain two enormous, pillowy breasts; a chin of soft tan flesh; full lips painted bright red (had she had lipstick on before?); and bright blue eyes, not sharp and quick, but soft and glassy.

"Those too," she demanded, nodding towards my underwear, "they're wet too."
She noticed the hesitation in my face and added, "It's not like I haven't seen your thing before."

Her lips parted slightly and her head moved almost imperceptibly, her face
straining with controlled excitement.

I hooked my thumbs under the waistband of my shorts and pulled them forward to clear my full erection, and then balanced awkwardly first on one foot and then the other as I pulled them completely off and added them to the damp pile in the laundry basket. Standing there naked, fully exposed to her lustful gaze, felt like that first time I'd masturbated in the garden. My senses were fully aroused.

"Wait right here," she said picking up the basket and walking out of the
kitchen. "I'll bring you a towel." When she'd left the room I reached down
and started stroking my penis, trying to visualize Lisa Dobbins' breasts
moving to the beat of the music, but finding my thoughts returning again and again to blue stretch pants and wondering what lay behind the straining buttons of the white cotton blouse. I pulled my hand away when I heard the sound of the drier starting and seated myself at the kitchen table. That would at least provide me partial concealment. She walked back into the kitchen carrying a towel and bathrobe with a large floral print. She draped the bathrobe over the back of one of the chairs and stepped around behind me.

"Let's get you dried off," she said unfolding the towel and draping it over my shoulders. She started rubbing my skin with the towel and the scent of her perfume sent a thrill down to my loins again.

"Thanks. I uh, I can..." I attempted.

"Stand up so I can get all of you," she urged.

So much for concealment. I slid the chair back and stood facing her as she
moved the towel over my chest and arms. I obeyed when she told me to raise my arms over my head so she could dry my sides. She moved the towel around to my back with her right hand and encircled the other side of my body with her left so that she could use both hands on the towel to dry my back. This awkward embrace pressed our bodies together blanketing my throbbing shaft between my hips and her ample white cotton covered stomach. Her body pressed up and down against mine as she strained to move the towel up and down my back reaching as far up my back as she could and then back down towards my buttocks. My cock strained, as if it could grow any larger or harder, as the up and down motion of her body rubbed against me.

Finishing with my back, Mrs. Johnson leaned back slightly and brought her arms back around to the front. She started to bend over to dry my legs, but
letting out a groan of discomfort, decided instead to get down on her knees in front of me. Once in place she started working the towel over my feet and ankles, alternating between my legs while moving slowly up past my knees. I had let my hands drop back down to my sides but felt awkward so returned them back over my head. This felt even more awkward, so I crossed my arms across my chest, which didn't feel any less awkward, and finally just allowed them to dangle at my sides again.

"Spread your legs," she asked?

"Pardon," I replied?

"Your legs, I need to get in here," she explained pressing her towel-covered hands on the insides of my upper thigh.

I spread my legs as requested, and she continued her work up my legs, brushing my balls a couple of times with the towel as she worked. At last she came to the last part that needed drying. She cupped my balls with one hand and roughly toweled my cock with the other.

"Well," she sighed, wadding the towel up and setting it down on the floor
beside her while leaning back to admire her work. She looked up at me and at last let a smile replace the business-like look on her face. She wet one half of her bottom lip with her tongue as her eyes turned back down to examine my cock.

"I see you've developed into quite a young man," she said teasingly. "Those naughty girls next door seem to have worked you into quite a frenzy. I guess I....disturbed you before you had a chance to cum."

"Well I..." I started. Her use of the word, "cum" caught me completely off
guard. Hearing her say it sent a thrill of excitement through me and my cock twitched once uncontrollably. "Well I wasn't really....uh...I mean."

"It's ok," she laughed. "Masturbation is a perfectly natural act. Goodness
knows I do it often enough now that Henry's...." her voice trailed off and
there was a far away look in her eyes for an instant. Her eyes sharpened
again as quickly as they'd drifted off, "Anyway, the point is we all
masturbate silly, it's nothing to be ashamed of."

"Well yeah, it's...well it's not like I couldn't have...you know...sex if I
wanted....with a girl I mean," I stuttered, embarrassed more now that I couldn't seem to form words than the fact that I was standing in naked in Mrs. Johnson's kitchen while she was staring at my stiff cock. Mrs. Johnson's eyes lit up in amused excitement, and I wondered if she could tell that I'd never had sex with a girl before.

"Well of course, silly. It looks like you're still all worked up over those
girls, wouldn't you like to finish masturbating now?"

"Well...uh...yeah, I guess," I said not quite believing I was saying this. Jerk
off in front of Mrs. Johnson? I couldn't believe I was even considering this,
and yet the excitement of it nearly caused my hips to start rocking back and forth on their own.

"Well go ahead," she prodded grinning broadly.

I closed my eyes and slowly moved my hand down and gripped my swollen organ. Slowly and awkwardly I started moving my fingers up and down the shaft and soon the last shreds of embarrassment were replaced by lust and desire.

"Oh, that's nice," Mrs. Johnson whispered, her broad smile dissolving into
lusty concentration as she watched me work my cock in and out of my hand.
"Those girls down at the pool are so cute, don't you think? And that one, the one who lives there. She's got really big boobs. My bedroom window looks out over that pool, and do you know that sometimes at night she goes swimming by herself completely naked. She really has very lovely boobs."

The thought of Lisa Dobbins skinny dipping, the water dripping off her large firm tips and tiny pink nipples, caused my hand to start moving faster as I drew in a quick, sharp breath. Oddly I couldn't seem to hold the vision of her in my mind. My thoughts kept creeping back to...I opened my eyes.

"Feel good," she asked? Mrs. Johnson had moved from kneeling on the floor to sitting, with her legs extended fully out and slightly parted. She was
leaning back on one arm with her head resting on that shoulder, while her
other hand was moving in a large, lazy triangle from her breast, down her
stomach, between her legs, and back up to her other breast.

"Oh Mrs. Johnson," I sighed.

"My name is Sandi," she replied with a deeper, sultry voice.

We continued watching each other. My strokes continued fairly regularly. She was touching herself more forcefully now, squeezing her breasts roughly and rubbing harder between her legs as her hand continued tracing a triangle on her flesh.

"Would you like....would you like to put your penis in my mouth," she asked, looking up hopefully in my eyes.

Again the unexpected words sent a thrill through my stomach and I nearly
dropped my hot sticky load all over her kitchen floor.

"Oh yeah, yes Sandi, please," I begged.

She lost no time in scrambling to her knees before me. Her hands felt soft
and warm as they closed around my balls and the base of my shaft while my own reached out and started stroking her hair. Her lips closed over the very tip of my cock and I could feel her tongue lapping up the pre-cum.

"Ummm, I haven't tasted a man's cum in so long," she said, and then sucked more than half my cock into her mouth in one quick movement.

I have no idea how I managed not to cum fully in her mouth at that instant.
The heat of her mouth sent chills through my body. I could feel her tongue
pressing against the bottom of my shaft as her head bobbed back and forth, driving my throbbing cock again and again into the silky moisture of her mouth. Her hands squeezed and tugged expertly on the base of my cock and my balls. My excitement accelerated madly and I found myself grabbing her hair and thrusting my hips back and forth. As the tension peaked and I felt myself slipping past the point of no return I remember trying to pull back to avoid cumming in her mouth. The thought of all that hot sticky goo gushing into her mouth seemed somehow dirty and wrong. I thought that I at least ought to warn her, but all I could manage was a guttural animal grunt as I let go of her hair and my cock began to spasm uncontrollably. My orgasm doubled in intensity when I noticed that instead of reeling back in disgust, Sandi pressed her face harder into me and used her hands to milk every last drop of cum from my cock and balls.

I stood still for a moment, feeling the chill on my skin as the perspiration
evaporated from my body. Sandi continued sucking and licking my cock clean as my mind replayed the instant of orgasm. When Sandi paused in her work, I bent over and helped her to stand up. She immediately pressed her body tightly against me, wrapping her arms around me in a tight embrace, and tilting her face up towards mine. I leaned my head down and kissed her lips, lightly at first but more forcefully as she returned the kiss. She pressed her body even more tightly against mine as her lips parted and her tongue probed tentatively into my mouth. My tongue played briefly with hers, then slipped past the threshold of our lips and into the silky, moist warmth of her mouth. I was startled and excited to discover the taste of my cum in her mouth.

She pulled back and led me by the hand down a narrow hallway into her bedroom.
The sight of her bedroom renewed my excitement in a way that's hard to
describe. The room was just what you'd expect to see in your grandmother's house. White lace doilies covering the tops of her dresser, night tables, and a small round table set against the wall. Pictures in small frames, small ceramic figurines, and simple clay pots of houseplants atop the doilies. A crocheted afghan was folded neatly atop a patchwork quilt covering an enormous four-poster bed. I pressed her head down onto a starched white pillowcase with the lace-covered edges and continued kissing her mouth and face. My hands started moving over her body, lustily drinking in the soft mounds under her blouse and full, mature hips.

I unbuttoned her blouse slowly, sucking and kissing each new patch of soft
pale skin. When the last button fell away, I worked my way back up her torso, pausing a long time to fondle her enormous breasts through the sturdy fabric of a bra obviously built for functionality rather than style. I returned to her mouth, once again probing deeply with my tongue as I rolled her on her side towards me and started working the hooks of her bra. When the last hook gave way, I pushed her back down on her back and went back to exploring her chest with my mouth and hands. With long lingering touches and kisses I slowly moved the cups of her bra up and over her large soft tits. Concentrating on one at a time, I scooped it up into my hands, pushing the nipples up to my mouth. Her nipples were huge and surrounded by the dark oval of her equally large areolas. I spent a long time sucking, licking and gently biting her nipples as she moaned in delight and offered suggestions.

"Oh yessss....ummm....suck it harder...harder.....oh yes....now the other.....oh that's so good."

My erection, which had never completely gone away was complete again, and as I moved around her body, first on one side, then on top of her, then the other side, I found myself pressing and rubbing my cock against her hips and legs and down between her legs still covered by the blue stretch pants. I returned again to her mouth, kissing and sucking her lips, our tongues playing together in her mouth, then mine, and then hers again. My fingers continued to explore her body with all the excitement of a kid in a candy store, slowly moving under the waistband of her pants, feeling her large loose ass, and descending ever closer to the treasure between her legs. With each new probe I pushed her pants an inch further down over her hips until at last I was fondling the soft patch of fine hairs.

She let out a very deep, long moan as my fingers gently touched and probed her pussy.

"Ummm, ohhh...yes, rub there...oh yessss...that feels sooo good."

We stopped briefly to finish removing her clothing. She wrapped her arms
around my neck and we kissed deeply as we fell back down on the mattress. She pulled her face back and looked into my eyes.

"Would you like to kiss me between my legs," she asked?

I nodded eagerly.

"Why don't you turn around and get on top of me then," she suggested, "that way you can put penis back in my mouth while you kiss my vagina." The sounds of her words, so technical, like the lectures on human reproduction I'd endured in school, combined with the innocence of the room and the fact that this was Mrs. Johnson drove me out of my mind with lust. In an instant I was on top of her licking and sucking her pussy while the sensations of her mouth and teeth on my cock and balls drove me again to the brink of orgasm.

"Oh yes, ohh yess," she moaned, moving her mouth away from my cock. "Turn around, quickly, turn around and fuck me."

I quickly repositioned myself on top of her and our lips locked together and
we tasted each others mouths anew. When I had trouble finding the right spot with the end of my cock, she guided me inside of her with her hands. I sank deeply into her soft warm flesh and started moving slowly in and out.

"Fuck me harder, please baby....oh gawd your penis feels soooo good....fuck me faster...harder....suck my nipples."

I humped her furiously, pinching and sucking her nipples, and then exploded inside her.

I carried out my gardening, and other, duties at Mrs. Johnson's house with
great enthusiasm throughout the remainder of that summer before heading off to college. Sandi introduced me to a variety of new experiences, and we enjoyed a very satisfying, intimate, and loving relationship for several more summers.

GPL: Intellectual Theft? (-1, Troll)

egg troll (515396) | more than 11 years ago | (#3792938)

Hello,

Consulting for several large companies, I'd always done my work on Windows. Recently however, a top online investment firm asked us to do some work using Linux. The concept of having access to source code was very appealing to us, as we'd be able to modify the kernel to meet our exacting standards which we're unable to do with Microsoft's products.

Although we met several technical challenges along the way (specifically, Linux's lack of Token Ring support and the fact that we were unable to defrag its ext2 file system), all in all the process went smoothly. Everyone was very pleased with Linux, and we were considering using it for a great deal of future internal projects.

So you can imagine our suprise when we were informed by a lawyer that we would be required to publish our source code for others to use. It was brought to our attention that Linux is copyrighted under something called the GPL, or the Gnu Protective License. Part of this license states that any changes to the kernel are to be made freely available. Unfortunately for us, this meant that the great deal of time and money we spent "touching up" Linux to work for this investment firm would now be available at no cost to our competitors.

Furthermore, after reviewing this GPL our lawyers advised us that any products compiled with GPL'ed tools - such as gcc - would also have to its source code released. This was simply unacceptable.

Although we had planned for no one outside of this company to ever use, let alone see the source code, we were now put in a difficult position. We could either give away our hard work, or come up with another solution. Although it was tought to do, there really was no option: We had to rewrite the code, from scratch, for Windows 2000.

I think the biggest thing keeping Linux from being truly competitive with Microsoft is this GPL. Its draconian requirements virtually guarentee that no business will ever be able to use it. After my experience with Linux, I won't be recommending it to any of my associates. I may reconsider if Linux switches its license to something a little more fair, such as Microsoft's "Shared Source". Until then its attempts to socialize the software market will insure it remains only a bit player.

Thank you for your time.

Re:GPL: Intellectual Theft? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793325)

You are so right. the GPL is a joke

Re:GPL: Intellectual Theft? (0, Troll)

0ki (546472) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793550)

GPL is only good for coding public utilities like Apache,Samba etc. There is no way to sustain a private buisness using GPL where you need to share your code unless you can strong arm competition like Red Hat does (forced RPM binary packages...) and charge $750 for a certification program where there is no market for Linux Sys admins (yes it's true go troll Hotjobs or monster.com the only Linux Admin jobs are at rackspace.com the rest are intense development jobs a RHCE would be useless for.

offtopic but.... (0, Offtopic)

idontneedanickname (570477) | more than 11 years ago | (#3792957)

did anyone notice the M$ .NET banner at the top?

Re:offtopic but.... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3792973)

I didn't see ANY banners, troll.

(fuck 20 seconds)

Did you think of the trolls? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3792958)

So come one, come all. The last meet was a lot of fun and we expect this this IRC meet will be even better than the last.

I don't think so.

new MS initiatives like .NET (1)

scotlewis (45960) | more than 11 years ago | (#3792960)

New MS initiatives like .NET? Since when is .NET new? Last I heard, dotGNU had been created as a Free Software alternative to .NET.

Re:new MS initiatives like .NET (1)

0ki (546472) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793536)

No they are trying to implement C#. Which will never happen. They will be forever chasing standards Microsoft creates just like the .doc format or API's that wine tries to emulate.

screw linux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3792968)

screw, screw, screw...

For those wondering what dotgnu is... (4, Insightful)

User 956 (568564) | more than 11 years ago | (#3792969)

IIRC, I read that DotGNU [dotgnu.org] will enable you to run your C# programs on the free GNU/Linux operating system using exclusively free software. With DotGNU [dotgnu.org], you will be able to use C# if you wish, without surrendering your freedom to study, share, change, and generally control all the software that you use.

This is, of course a boon, however it is worthless without some soft of workaround for Microsoft's Palladium scheme [theregister.co.uk]:

Microsoft's "Palladium certification scheme will rip the guts out of the GPL. That is, the minute I begin tinkering with my software, my ability to interface with the Great PKI in the Sky will be broken. I'll have a Linux box with a GPL, all right; but if I exercise the license in any meaningful way I'll render my system 'unauthorized for Palladium' and lose business. So instead, I imagine I'll be turning to my vendor for support, updates, modifications and patches. And I'll be dependent on them for support services at whatever price they can wheedle out of me because I dare not lose my Palladium authorization. I wonder if the cost of ownership of an open-source system will actually be lower than the cost of a proprietary system under such circumstances."

Re:For those wondering what dotgnu is... (1)

cyborch (524661) | more than 11 years ago | (#3792985)

Enough with the Palladium scheme already!
Every OSS news is not about the Palladium scheme! Let us discuss the dotGNU meet-a-thon in stead of Palladium for a second, please!

Again presenting other's words as your own (2, Interesting)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793213)

Why do people keep modding up this troll?
Ripped off from [gnu.org]

Stallman added: "Mono will enable you to run your C# programs on the free GNU/Linux operating system using exclusively free software. With Mono, you will be able to use C# if you wish, without surrendering your freedom to study, share, change, and generally control all the software that you use."

Did you even see the link to the site in his post? (0)

Jonathan Swift (586050) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793230)

WTF are you talking about? He said "I read that...." and then put a GIANT FUCKING LINK to DotGNU (the site where the Stallman interview is). Quit karma-whoring and do something useful.

Re:Did you even see the link to the site in his po (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793254)

The stallman interview isn't even fucking about dotgnu. You stole stallman's words and put in a few hyperlinks. I don't give a fuck about karma, I've had 50 ever since the cap was put in, I'm just sick of seeing a troll abuse the system. Anyone who mods you down as anything but overrated is going to get slapped in metamod because the message looks insightful and ontopic, they won't realize you are a fucking poser, stealing other people's words because you are too lame to write anything interesting yourself.

Re:Did you even see the link to the site in his po (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793299)

The stallman interview isn't even fucking about dotgnu. You stole stallman's words and put in a few hyperlinks.

Tell that to Richard Stallman: [gnu.org]
Richard M. Stallman, founder of the GNU project and president of the Free
Software Foundation, said: "With Mono and DotGNU, we hope to provide a
good alternative to all of .NET, one that will respect your freedom, and
your privacy. You will be able to use the facilities of Mono and DotGNU
either with, or without, the Internet, and using servers of your choice."

I didn't rip anything off, chief. Sorry. (1)

User 956 (568564) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793252)

If you would, please note the proper citation, and the link to DotGNU.ORG.

Mods, please mod this idiot down as a troll, as he's just wasting others' karma. Thanks.

Re:I didn't rip anything off, chief. Sorry. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793370)

Actually you did. I read it right off the link that he posted, you basically took a sentence from the page and altered it to reflect DotGNU rather than Mono. You're not a very good liar, are you?

Re:I didn't rip anything off, chief. Sorry. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793387)

Actually you did. I read it right off the link that he posted, you basically took a sentence from the page and altered it to reflect DotGNU rather than Mono.

It has nothing to do with dotgnu? Maybe you should learn how to read [gnu.org]. That message was also sent to the dotgnu mailing list, which you SIGN UP FOR AT dotgnu.org. Since he didn't have a direct link to his EMAIL INBOX, he linked dotgnu.org. I think it's time to unbunch your panties, and move on with your life.

Re:Again presenting other's words as your own (2)

GutBomb (541585) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793588)

it's not ripped off. He just excercised the rights afforded to him by the GPL. he even included a link to the "source". remember, information wants to be free!

Re:For those wondering what dotgnu is... (1)

hachete (473378) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793379)

I think that MS cannot - and does not - have the resources alone to manage sort of PK infrastructure required of this system to work. I don't think they realise the *network* issues involved in managing the PK authentication of x million users trying to authenticate against every damn piece of documentation/application that you will/might use. A billion documents? A million applications? Given either the latency of the net or the sluggishness/crapness of MS servers/system and the fact that they will try and do this over HTTP, the whole system will die. Juarez - the system originator - says that it will take a 100 million machines sold before the system takes hold. I think the system will be unsatisfactory before it gets to that limit. I've used passport and it's crap; I expect nothing less of the new authentication system. Joe Public will get pissed if they can't listen to Emninen's latest song without a microseconds' blink and I think the system that M$ will use to support palladium *will* tank. History is with me here; MS has never run a satisfactory public service. Period.

I think the only way to do this properly is to design and run a PK infrastructure with the help of a public body such as the W3C or IETF, who should be involved in designing and maintaining a PK support infrastructure. Much like the X500 directory system but directed solely at PK management. We should be there to *help* M$ in their quest to help their customers. Of course, we should do this to help ourselves.

Therefore, quid pro quo, if the management system is owned/managed/run by the public domain, the Palladium system should be commoditized i.e have an open API, and any apps that the system wil run, should be signed against *any* publicly trusted body. Maybe even the GNU project - or even Slash - can become such a body.

Remember, Paladium is at the "bluesky" stage: we should get in there and get what *we* the unwashed want. Is the EFF involved? Juarez says they're open to *everyone*. We should at least take advantage of that rather than endless threads whinging about it.

Essentially, we should design something which embraces and extends Palladium. A neat reversal, no?

I wonder (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3792983)

How many of them will DOTbathe before coming out? Probably none.

Maybe they'll be able to help me out at the meet. (-1, Troll)

Jonathan Swift (586050) | more than 11 years ago | (#3792984)

Maybe the people at the DotGNU meet will be able to help me out. You see, I use GNU/Linux and can't get a girlfriend, no matter what I do. From what I can tell, not too many of you have girlfriends either; I must make it clear right now that I do not want advice from you. I am seeking the advice of those who have consentual, regular, heterosexual intercourse with a well adjusted woman.

You may be wondering why I placed so many restrictions on the type of sexual intercourse. Being a GNU/Linux user, I can get all the men I want, but my ass hurts from years of anal sex. I am tired of pillow-biting. I have met women at Linux User Groups (LUGs) but they didnt want sex the way I wanted it - they brought their strap on and rode my chute like the men did. The date would end with her taking me to a gay bar and selling my ass to a drunk and bearded kernel hacker.

I am convinced, therefore, that I need to meet women that do not use GNU/Linux.

I have tried dating regular women, but find it hard to make conversation. I was surprised that regular women do not give a shit about Free Software or the Microsoft monopoly which leaves me with nothing to discuss. Some women tried to talk about the weather, but I don't keep up with the weather from my mums' basement.

I have had some success, I dated one girl several times. She picked me up from home, mum liked her. I am sure dad would have too, but he left us soon after I installed Slackware on the family computer. I can still hear him crying and see him moping around the house, saying "I knew he was different; I could handle a gay son, but this .... a fucking GNU/Linux hippy". He sounded so defeated. She wanted to go to the beach, but my skin is not adjusted to the sun and my skin peels while at the beach. This was not a turn on for her and when she came back to my mum's basement that night we were going to have sex but the raw skin was too much for her.

Going out at night for a meal can be difficult too; all restaurants refuse to serve smelly GNU/Linux hippies. The only place we can go for food is the McDonald's drive through, but she doesnt like waiting in her car in the heat of the day when I tend to smell the most. She doesn't like the stares she gets from the drive through staff.

I could go on, but I won't. I seek advice.

Re:Maybe they'll be able to help me out at the mee (-1)

Anonymous Pancake (458864) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793068)

switch to BSD. BSD people are mostly heterosexual and the women enjoy regular sex. BSD also happens to be a better OS. If you want to go all out, use sun hardware and solaris. Women are especially attracted to the sexy blue boxes of quality sun hardware.

Sun users are generally clean cut, sanitary, and shave, I would suggest you start there.

I have a dual headed machine! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793001)

Slashdot on one monitor
Goatse.cx on the other!

oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793008)

Oh boy!

While visiting openprojects.net on IRC, not only do you get to chat with your friends, you get free lilo spam!

That's right, free lilo spam! Greatest thing there is! The man who wants to enjoy a hobby, and have _you_ pay for it!

Take a look at :

http://www.lilofree.net and http://liloaid.ecce.co.uk/ and others!

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (1, Flamebait)

Juhaa (588855) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793157)

I know you're trolling.

But, If not for Lilo, you would not have an OPN. The dude works real hard to keep the networking running optimal. I don't think someone who spends so much time providing such great service to this community should be spoken of like that. If you dont like his wallops turn them off, you know how to do it right?

OPN is a great network, not only that it's the main gathering place for a number of big support groups (eg: Debian). Lilo keeps the network safe, clean and secure.

BTW: I know the idiot in UK who's being going around making anti-semetic statments about Lilo, he used to be an IrcOP on OPN, but got kicked out. The kid is a real sore (him and his sister), I wouldn't be suprised if you were him or those sites are his.

What have you done for the community lately?

lilo is replaceable (1)

multiview (124831) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793272)

lilo is asking for personal donations. he is asking OPN users to pay his car loan. no thanks.

lilo is replaceable.

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793320)

lilo may have initiated OPN, but it was made possible by many people. While lilo has the right to sit and spam us on OPN, it is quite lame. The funds you donate to OPN go to pay for lilo's rent and utilities... that is, when there are enough donations and he's not living out of a box.

I used to respect lilo for what he had done. Now I've lost most of that respect. Come on lilo... get a job and shut up already.

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (1)

Juhaa (588855) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793382)

Please mod down my parent post above, I now believe [slashdot.org] that Lilo is all that the ppl here say he is. I take back anything nice I have said about him. But Lilo should not be the cause of you not supporting OPN. OPN could exist without Lilo.

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793433)

Thats exactly the point. Lilo doesnt believe that OPN could exist without him. When he makes his notices he believes it is for the good of OPN, because as he sees it, OPN == him.

In the past few weeks, several servers have delinked and quite a few of his staff has quit, fed up with his behaviour. He doesnt care. He's willing to hurt OPN (losing servers and knowledgable and useful members of staff) for his own ends.

In short, you cannot support OPN without supporting lilo, because he will destroy it before he lets anyone else have it. If you want to support the Open Source/Free Software community, support OFTC [oftc.net] - its small but growing, and run by people who are a darn sight more competent and professional than lilo.

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793452)

I should also mention that hes also driven several large channels away in the past few weeks. Infact, it got so bad that several days ago he had some kind of breakdown, acting like a child in a temper tantrum, broadcasting all kinds of stupid shit onto the wallops announcements. It should be interesting to see what OPN is like when it has no channels and only a handful of servers left.

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793461)

I don't believe this is true. Lilo is very respectable individual. We have the largest support channels on all of our community, starting with our huge Debian channels and their sister channels. Many other distributions support us, including Mandrake and Redhat. We have made a forum that is troll free and flood free. If I have to unlink a few hosts that are havens for trolls, I think that's for the better. We believe OPN is one of very few IRC networks that works and it's all cause of lilo's dedication and the team that he assembled.

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793520)

By "haven for trolls" do you mean "the whole continent of Australasia"? Because thats what happened - all the Australian servers quit. The sponsors of the servers got fed up with lilo using the servers they donated for Open Source development for his own personal gain.

Honestly, I respect what lilo has done in building up OPN to what it is, but he is taking things to extremes at which I draw the line. His eventual plan is to set up a non profit organisation of which he will be an employee - this will allow him to (a) trick companies into paying him to sit on IRC all day (if he even worked on the ircd code or something I might find this acceptable, but he doesnt) and (b) get those donations tax free. In short, he is (and I quote from KainX.org [kainx.org], "using the resources controlled and managed by a domestic non-profit organization for personal gain, an activity prohibited by the laws of both the United States and the state of Texas in which PDPC is incorporated, not to mention in direct violation of the very articles of incorporation he himself filed with the Secretary of State's office in Texas."

Lilo is using his position to sponge off the Open Source community. It is no wonder that he is unwilling to give up his power, and is willing to destroy OPN to keep it. Open your eyes.

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793317)

It is official; netsplit.de [netsplit.de] confirms: OPN [openprojects.net] is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered OPN community when netsplit.de confirmed that OPN market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. This news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. OPN is collapsing in complete disarray.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict OPN's future. The hand writing is on the wall: OPN faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for OPN because OPN is dying. Things are looking very bad for OPN. As many of us are already aware, OPN continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

In the past month, OPN has lost 3 servers. With the current count of 29 servers, it will logically be 9 months until there are no servers remaining at all. Obviously, the network will probably survive slightly longer than this; it may even drag on for a whole extra year, crawling along like an undead corpse.

Network operator lilo also faces a bleak future. With his rapidly deteriorating financial situation and crucial position to the running and future of the network, it is only a matter of weeks before he is forced to leave and OPN descends into anarchy and chaos without a leader.

Fact: OPN is dying

Re:oh boy! OpenProjects.net, the spam network! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793422)

I disagree, Rob Levin is one of the best people in the software industry at the moment. He has been with OPN from the start (It IS pet project).

The man created online irc based support, he is as innovative as RMS or ESR. He is of that calibre and he wrote excellent code while working for us on lineo.

If you feel otherwise, I suggest you visit us on OPN (irc.openprojects.net) and join my service channel (#openprojects) and speak with one of us or with lilo himself.

Thank you.

Having done a little bit of testing (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793023)

with a MS .NET SOAP service. The example code they provide looks good from a language perspective, but that's half the picture.

If you look at the ASP.Net examples on devnet, you'll see lots of examples with 100 lines of HTML and 600+ lines of code. Even though the new IIS is .NET enabled and everything else. Do people think it's a good idea to have 600+ lines of code in an ASP page? Having done quite a bit of coding with ASP using VB and Javascript, pages with more than 200 lines of code don't scale well. Those with ASP web development experience will tell you, compile it into a com and use it that way.

So why is it that MS devnet examples continue to say copy this example (w/ 600+ lines of code) and you're ready to deploy an web application? How is that supposed to make web development faster, more reliable and safer? Given all the nice new features of C#, why don't their examples encourage good coding practices? Like making generic reusable objects to encapsulate a piece of business logic and reduce the amount of code in an ASP page. Now it might be that some where MS encourages people to practice better coding habits, but I've yet to see one in the 200+ pages on .NET SOAP services documentation.

Re:Having done a little bit of testing (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793178)

linksplzkthxbye

Ada supported on DOT GNU? (1)

Juhaa (588855) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793048)

I totally respect anyone's decisions on what to target new development on - it is your business.

It is a shame that COBOL has Fujitsu to develop COBOL.NET but that Ada has no such large corporate to perform this sort of work. Without such a sponsor it is hard to see how Ada gets out of the catch22 of: User: "Why use Ada when it doesn't support feature X?" Vendor: "Why support feature X when there is no user demand?"

Perhaps there is some hope in the 'DotGNU' project. The item that interested me in the FAQ for this is:

"1.17 Will C and C++ be supported in DotGNU?

Code which is written in C or C++ can be used with DotGNU, *if* it is distributed with DotGNU or otherwise installed like you normally install software. However you cannot use C or C++ to implement webservice programs that are meant to run in the Secure Execution Environment (SEE), like it will be possible with e.g. Java, Ada, C# and Perl - at least not until someone solves the difficult issues of compiling C to some kind of portable intermediate representation in such a way that the Secure Execution Environment can efficiently verify that the program is not trying to do something malicious."
Would you like to see Ada support in DotGNU?

Re:Ada supported on DOT GNU? (2)

XBL (305578) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793211)

Well, this is a surprising post. The thing about Ada is that the main point of it is the compilers and environments that are available for it (usually a lot of $ too). I really don't think people would care about running Ada on a .NET type platform.

At my job, we are switching away from Ada to Java. Enough said.

Re:Ada supported on DOT GNU? (1)

Juhaa (588855) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793263)

I dont agree with you there. Ada is strongly ingrained in the gov infrastructure. There are a large amount of work done by the gov that is still being done with Ada, and not only gov, but most of the larger scientific corporations. I don't feel Java would replace them anytime soon.

A lot of people care about Ada, a lot more than Java ( I believe, from the amount of SN with respect to Java).

Re:Ada supported on DOT GNU? (2)

XBL (305578) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793331)

Yeah, but switching from existing Ada implementations to Ada on dotWhatever might as well be switching to a whole new language/platform.

Microsoft had to change VB and JScript quite a bit to work with .NET. The same would need to happen with Ada, though to a lesser exent. Just that little bit of change would probably panic existing Ada developers (not to mention using the whole new package system).

As Microsoft says, C# is the best language to use for .NET. I don't think Ada would provide any advantages.

Don't get me wrong, it would be cool to see Ada for dotGNU, but I highly doubt many would care beyond just some academics :-/

Re:Ada supported on DOT GNU? (More the merrier) (1)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793453)

Well our compiler is sort of a plugin API for developing new compiler .. it wouldn't be too tough :-)

Very misguided (2)

--daz-- (139799) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793050)

Fighting .NET is stupid. .NET is a great technology, it's an ECMA standard.

I understand the fear of Hailstorm/MyServices (which is now dead, MS gave up on it), Palladium, etc.

It seems that the project leaders here are misinformed since they seem to think that .NET == MyServices == Palladium which is not the case.

Support Mono, not dotGNU!

Re:Very misguided (1)

kingkade (584184) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793084)

Why do you say mono is better than dotgnu?
aren't they both trying to develop a c# compiler and a web service as well as the exact same framework libs as MS architecture on top of the open .net bytecode spec?
just asking :)

Re:Very misguided (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793085)

Slashdot readers uninformed about .NET? Really?

Re:Very misguided (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793126)

Actually, some of us have just looked at and researched .NET, decided it is inferior technology to the alternatives, decided it is not useful, decided we don't want to use it, and are currently fighting it because Microsoft has a way of getting usage of their technologies realistically mandatory in those instances where those technologies are not rejected by the market.

I just don't like .NET and don't want to use it. Is that so bad?

Re:Very misguided (1)

cyborch (524661) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793135)

Support Mono, not dotGNU!

Why is that? does dotGNU have something that Mono is missing? if so, what?

Re:Very misguided (1)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793248)

Well DotGNU cannot be compared to Mono ... Compare DotGNU Portable.Net (which is the C# runtime/compiler/libs) to Mono ...

DotGNU is much bigger !!

Re:Very misguided (1)

cyborch (524661) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793432)

ehhmmm... my .NET knowledge is very limited, could you spell it out for me a little? what is there to .NET besides the runtime environment + compiler + libs?

Well, only parts are submitted to ECMA (2)

Cardinal (311) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793206)

Fighting .NET is stupid. .NET is a great technology, it's an ECMA standard.

Hardly. The only parts that have been submitted to the ECMA are C# [www.ecma.ch] and the CLI [www.ecma.ch]. Everything else, all the parts that provide the .NET functionality are another matter entirely.

Re:Well, only parts are submitted to ECMA (1)

cyborch (524661) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793491)

well... like java all the libraries are going to flucturate wildly for at least a couple of versions... so there is really no point in submitting anything a language spec (that of C#) and the CLI to ECMA, is there?

Re:Very misguided (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793292)

> it's an ECMA standard

Mono does not support ECMA standards ... DotGNU does

> Support Mono, not dotGNU!

Why support Mono and make money for Ximian ?

"posted as submitted?" (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793054)

Or, you could, you know, actually FIND OUT the correct time before posting to thousands of Slashdot readers.

I guess that would require too much effort. Much better to let every interested person figure it out for themselves.

Sheesh.

Miguel ITcaca, professional wetback (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793102)

Oooh Jose, what eeez that smell? Eeet smells like a wetback, no?

yours,
Miguel ITcaca [206.244.69.51]

Fight, and Innovate (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793143)

1. I think it's great that they are trying to prevent MS from taking over the web; they or others should also watch out for Palladium.

2. The Free Software community will never really beat MS if it always tries to catch up with them. It should innovate on a large scale, visions for a free web etc, so that the industry and MS will be busy trying to catch up.

In Case It's Slashdotted (+2, Informative) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793150)

DotGNU Meet-a-thon
Posted by michael on Saturday June 29, @04:15PM
from the good-gnus dept.
Gopal.V writes "It's time for the Quarterly DotGNU IRC Meet-a-thon. As usual, we'll be having it on #dotgnu on irc.openprojects.net. We will be discussing the current state of DotGNU, where we've gone and where we should be headed. Anyone who is interested should join us. In particular, we are not only looking for developers to be involved in this meet, but also potential DotGNU users. We are very interested in addressing any questions/input from anyone who will one day use our framework. So come one, come all. The last meet was a lot of fun and we expect this this IRC meet will be even better than the last. Again, the IRC meet is taking place on: Server: irc.openprojects.net, Channel: #dotgnu. The meeting will run for a 36 hour period from 22:00 UTC Saturday 29 July 2002 until 10:00 UTC Monday 31 July. Every 4 hours will be an official meet time, when the major DotGNU members will be online. Most discussions will revolve round DotGNU projects and other issues concerning freedom in the new MS initiatives like .NET , and Palladium." I think this announcement may be slightly wrong on the times since it disagrees with the post to the email list; but this is posted as submitted.

This isn't a subject (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793162)

This isn't a post.

Attention trolls! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793168)

Any more posts that are score -1, Troll will be reported to the FBI. It's time to grow up.

-CmdrTaco

DotGNU Meeting Times (2)

rhysweatherley (193588) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793169)

The times should have been "10:00 UTC Saturday 29th July until 22:00 UTC Sunday 30th July". Sorry for any confusion. Please join us on irc.openprojects.net#dotgnu, any time this weekend.

Re:DotGNU Meeting Times (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793221)

Uh, the current month is June. Is it next month or this weekend?

Re:DotGNU Meeting Times (2)

rhysweatherley (193588) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793261)

I really should drink caffeine *before* posting to Slashdot at 7:30am. It is this month. Sorry (again) for the confusion.

I'm disappointed with their choice of OPN (4, Informative)

Clue4All (580842) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793173)

I'm especially disappointed with Rob Levin, but at the same time, I'm proud of OFTC.net which is turning out to be a worthy replacement for OpenProjects. Once again, people have demonstrated the Internet's abilitity to route around greed the same way it routes around damage.

For those who aren't up to scratch with IRC history, Rob Levin is the founder of OpenProjects, a successful forum for Open Source developers. However, recently he was sacked from his workplace. Despite being offered employment in his area and worldwide, he has refused them on grounds of "being too good" and has instead taken the easy way out and pilfered the OpenProjects funds to maintain his $150,000 per annum income. Levin is now nothing more than an opportunist who is exploiting the goodwill of sponsors and the community, misrepresenting his own personal keep-me-rich charity as an Open Source fund, despite never having contributed a single line of code to any Open project. Recently, he's taken to abusing volunteers and developers on the IRC network, threatening to shut them down or "K-Line" (permanent ban) them from the network unless they conform with his views and contribute to his salary, in effect trying to milk them for money. He also knows exactly what people with resources to donate want to hear and is often able to sweet-talk money out of companies and individuals who want to assist the Open Source community.

Note that I have nothing but respect for the other OpenProjects staff members, particularly their ircd coders. I hope that they will be successful in ejecting LILO from the team before he runs OpenProjects onto the rocks. After all, the network is every bit their property and the property of the bandwidth sponsorors as it is of this corrupt and misguided individual.

In the meantime, I welcome you to #Mandrake and #kernelnewbies on irc.oftc.net!

I'm disappointed with your dismissal of OPN (2)

Cardinal (311) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793225)

You have every right to disagree with Rob Levin's behavior. Lots of people do [printf.net]. But how does this have anything to do with the decision to use OPN for what it is intended for?

If you consider it a successful forum for Open Source developers, and you have nothing but respect for the other staffers, I don't understand why there is cause to discourage the use of OPN.

Re:I'm disappointed with your dismissal of OPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793247)

Their service sucks and is regularly unusable too, BTW. Does that count?

Re:I'm disappointed with your dismissal of OPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793253)

As a troll, yes. But not much more than that.

Re:I'm disappointed with your dismissal of OPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793316)

Indeed. I've found OPN to be quite reliable. And I've found the Catalyst principle to be quite a refreshing change from the average IRC network.

Re:I'm disappointed with their choice of OPN (2, Informative)

lilo (106287) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793234)


I'm sorry to see this sort of comment. It contains a number of untruths. I've recently been trolled a fair amount on OPN for asking for help to stay afloat while I finished setting up a nonprofit corporation to run OPN and to work on other community related projects. The economy has not been kind to me and to some others as well.

Some people are annoyed that I've used global notices. Well, they're pretty annoying, so I can understand their viewpoint.

Some people are irritated that I've asked for voluntary help, personally (not on behalf of OPN or the nonprofit) from the users. I'm sorry they feel that way, but am glad that some of the users have managed to do things like help me keep my apartment.

Nobody is trying to eject me from OPN other than some trolls and some folks who are listening without asking a lot of questions about what they're hearing. All I'll say at this point is something I've said on OPN: rumor, innuendo and ridicule can destroy reputations and ruin good work. If someone tells you something about another person, ask them how they know it and who told them. Go to the original sources; if there are no original sources, think about why the person has none to provide. Think about what people tell you and look for inconsistencies. Anyone's reputation can be damaged by distortions and untruths.

If you want to find out what I've been talking about lately, look here [sargasso.net] and here [sargasso.net]. If you're reading about this here, chances are you have not used OPN and I would appreciate your NOT using the PayPal button on that site. Any help I'm asking for, I'm asking from OPN users who know my work, who want to help and who have the means to do so without hurting themselves.

Thanks,

Rob Levin

Re:I'm disappointed with their choice of OPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793337)

Is it true you once worked in a porn shop?

Re:I'm disappointed with their choice of OPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793361)

You misspelled "pr0n," l4m3r

Re:I'm disappointed with their choice of OPN (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793306)

Clue4All wrote: Recently, [Rob Levin, aka: "lilo" has] taken to abusing volunteers and developers on the IRC network, threatening to shut them down or "K-Line" (permanent ban) them from the network unless they conform with his views and contribute to his salary, ...

Stuff and nonsense.

Lilo and the other staff on OPN have finally taken to quieting and channel-banning people who simply will not shut the fsck up--people who continually and repeatedly pollute channels with off-topic rants about How Evil Rob Levin Is. Personally, I'm surprised even the tolerant staff of OPN have been as patient with this crap as they have.

There have been petitions created both for and against lilo. I couldn't help but notice that the "against" petition has been allowed to run un-molested. The first "for" petition, however, was mercilessly pelted with garbage. Like the never-ending channel pollution the anti-lilo people have been perpetrating on OPN itself, this as much as anything tells me all I need to know about these people.

My support for lilo and OPN derives not so much from my agreement with what lilo's doing as much as my opposition to the anti-lilo faction, strictly as a result of their behaviour. They have proven themselves to be utter jerks--people who will go to any lengths to "prove" their point, including attempting to shove it down the throats of people who don't agree with them.

LILO YOU ARE ASTROTURFING /. (1)

Juhaa (588855) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793366)

Lilo,

I've supported you in my previous comments, but this from you? I just compaired this comment with your own logged in comment below. I think you are Astrotufing any anti-Lilo comments here, and I found that childish.

Look LILO, whatever you are doing here doesn't help your cause. I really respected you and what you did for OPN, but this is just too childish.

I've been analayzing comments posted in support of you with regard to your own comments posted as Lilo -- logged into slashdot. And from the grammar used, from the way the sentenses were used, from the way certain words are made bold, it is highly likely that you are posting all these comments pretending to be some AC supporting you. Shame on you Lilo. I thought you were cool. But this is ridiculas and completely unprofessional.

A person of your age should not care about all the trolls who post these comments and try to flood your network. YOU ARE THE CAUSE OF YOUR TROLLS. If you stopped adding fire and salt to those flames they would have stopped long ago, do you see people trolling this bad about others who have similar positions as you?

Frankly you owe ppl an explaination and an apology.

Sick of it.

Re:LILO YOU ARE ASTROTURFING /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793388)

Juhaa, you wouldn't be referring to the AC comments such as the "stuff and nonsense" one, would you? Because if you are, you're barking up the wrong tree. I am the AC that made those comments--as well as a number of other AC postings. Most of them, perhaps. I don't have a /. "account."

If you care to ask me personally, look for JSeymour on OPN. I'm not lilo. I'm not even staff.

You really should have a care with thowing unfounded accusations about, you know.

Re:LILO YOU ARE ASTROTURFING /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793444)

:: JSeymour is not on IRC
: whowas for jseymour
address lilo@lilo.staff.opn
ircname Rob Levin
server irc.openprojects.net

Now what about that? Thank god for whowas.

Re:LILO YOU ARE ASTROTURFING /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793486)

Hahaha! That was pretty lame, troll.

Re:LILO YOU ARE ASTROTURFING /. (1)

ChipX86 (102440) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793526)

Wow, JSeymour is lilo? Very interesting, since I've known JSeymour through the Gaim project for awhile now, and I'm very sure he is not lilo. here's the proper whois:

--- [JSeymour] (934-ident-@jimsun.linxnet.com) : JSeymour
--- [JSeymour] #OpenProjects #gaim
--- [JSeymour] irc.openprojects.net :http://www.openprojects.net/
--- JSeymour :is an identified user
--- [JSeymour] idle 00:00:39, signon: Sat Jun 29 04:05:19
--- [JSeymour] End of WHOIS list.

If you want to prove some kind of point, do it logically, not with deceptive posts and misinformation.

Re:LILO YOU ARE ASTROTURFING /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793403)

Excellent, I thought so too looking at the few comments lilo's posted. He does do these kind of things even on OPN, he's just full of it.

I guess Lilo must be fumming and flaming now once he's read your comment. If you're on OPN now, be careful, he might k-line you any time. =)

Re:LILO YOU ARE ASTROTURFING /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793471)

How sad.. grown men trolling on irc channels and message boards... you think Bill Gates or Steve Jobs sit around trolling?

-Yes I am a Proud, Productive and Profitable Windows 2000 user and soon to be OS X user.

Re:LILO YOU ARE ASTROTURFING /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793485)

Um, according to the Jargon file : Microsoft invented Astroturfing :)

So, I guess I must be Bill Gates then, just putting a comment about my corpoartion here, seems like you guys have forgotten me on this one story. Shame on you, you should see my DOT ........ very cool.

Re:I'm disappointed with their choice of OPN (2, Interesting)

ChipX86 (102440) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793554)

JSeymour (the "Anonymous Coward" who posted the message I am replying to) is quite correct. As a person running one of the "for lilo" petitions, I have received some fake posts, which are rather degrading. Not towards lilo, as he didn't post it, but towards the people who posted. I then got e-mails from people who told me to take down the petition, because lilo should leave OPN.

This is a very immature attitude. If you do not like lilo or OPN, go use one of the many alternative IRC networks. Nobody is forcing anybody to be here, and nobody is forcing anybody to pay. Many of us do not mind helping out lilo, and I think it's a shame that a group of people, who disagree on IRC politics, must resort to such disgraceful tricks to try to make other people believe lilo is a bad person. Get to know him, read up on the philosophy, and understand what he's trying to do. If you still disagree, fine. He isn't going to k-line you, ban you, or quiet you for that. He will ban you or quiet you for trolling in #openprojects. And no, the people who have gone in there to express their opinions on lilo are not all trolls, but many are, and those are the ones that end up being silenced... Not k-lined.

As always, it is best to research what you're boycotting or complaining about before you start to cause a public scene. It is also important to do research before just believing the posts of a few people on a public forum.

Remember that these are people, like everybody else, and they have differing opinions. How they express them is what separates a troll from a person with an opinion. Many people left OPN peacefully, and on their own will, and have not caused any problems whatsoever. These are the people with opinions. The people who created IRC networks with the purpose of forcing a negative reputation upon lilo or the other people on the network are the trolls. These are also the people spreading such misinformation as "threatening to K-Line them from the network unless they conform with his views and contribute to his salary."

While I'm on that subject, I would also like to point out that lilo is not asking for a salary. He had asked for some donations so that he wouldn't have to live on the streets. People are telling him to shut up and get a job. Well, he has gotten a job. He is working at this, but because of past debts, contributions are helpful. Nobody has to contribute, but many people did, and it has helped him a lot. Remember that this is a community, and one is encouraged to help another, but not required. Please don't bash a person who, as even many of the trolls have admitted, has done a lot of good for open source projects.

That is all I have to say. Thank you.

Re:I'm disappointed with their choice of OPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793326)

It is official; netsplit.de [netsplit.de] confirms: OPN [openprojects.net] is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered OPN community when netsplit.de confirmed that OPN market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. This news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. OPN is collapsing in complete disarray.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict OPN's future. The hand writing is on the wall: OPN faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for OPN because OPN is dying. Things are looking very bad for OPN. As many of us are already aware, OPN continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

In the past month, OPN has lost 3 servers. With the current count of 29 servers, it will logically be 9 months until there are no servers remaining at all. Obviously, the network will probably survive slightly longer than this; it may even drag on for a whole extra year, crawling along like an undead corpse.

Network operator lilo also faces a bleak future. With his rapidly deteriorating financial situation and crucial position to the running and future of the network, it is only a matter of weeks before he is forced to leave and OPN descends into anarchy and chaos without a leader.

Fact: OPN is dying

Re:I'm disappointed with their choice of OPN (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793351)

This is the 2nd thread in which you've posted the identical comments. In other words: you're spamming. I noted elsewhere that the character of the anti-lilo faction can be known by its behaviour. Thanks for helping me prove my point :).

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793419)

Linux has no future, the GPL will be destroyed by Microsoft, the United States economy will crumble, and the moon is going to crash into the Earth, possibly somewhere in the middle east.

Slashdot Gripes 1.01 by pwpbot (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793186)

/ /posters / /that / /spell / /Microsoft / /with / /a / /or / /spell / /it / /MicroCrap / /or / /something / /posters / /that / /glorify / /a / /feature / /that / /Linux / /has / /that / /BSD / /or / /Solaris / /as / /had / /for / /years / /and / /list / /this / /reason / /as / /the / /most / /important / /reason / /to / /switch / /over / /posters / /that / /say / /Slackware / /is / /better / /because / /you / /have / /to / /compile / /all / /of / /the / /applications / /for / /yourself / /Rob / /Maldas / /arrogance / /frequent / /spelling / /and / /grammar / /mistakes / /Im / /not / /talking / /something / /really / /obscure / /or / /a / /minor / /technicallity / /in / /English / /either / /Im / /talking / /substituting / /loose / /for / /lose / /or / /theyretheirthere / /Really / /easily / /corrected / /mistakes / /Any / /halfway / /decent / /fifth / /grader / /could / /pick / /up / /on / /these / /errors / /people / /that / /post / /a / /mirror / /to / /a / /site / /that / /has / /been / /Slashdotted / /which / /normally / /would / /be / /nice / /but / /is / /hosted / /on / /a / /cable / /modem / /that / /is / /soon / /Slashdotted / /page / /widening / /random / /quashing / /of / /posts / /that / /dont / /agree / /with / /the / /Slashdot / /mindset / /really / /annoying / /sigs / /unhumorous / /jokes / /that / /have / /to / /be / /explained / /to / /the / /audience / /If / /your / /joke / /has / /to / /be / /explained / /its / /not / /funny / /BOYCOTT / /RIAA / /and / /I / /cant / /wait / /to / /see / /Episode / /II / /all / /in / /the / /same / /day / /Rob / /Maldas / /childish / /obsession / /with / /legos / /the / /Slashdot / /crew / /doesnt / /have / /any / /other / /jobs / /other / /than / /Slashdot / /yet / /it / /seems / /it / /was / /better / /run / /when / /Rob / /was / /running / /it / /on / /a / /Multia / /in / /college / /in / /his / /spare / /time / /the / /page / /limit / /with / /the / /subscription / /The / /expulsion / /of / /Signal / /11 / /ranting / /paranoid / /articles / /whenever / /there / /APPEARS / /to / /be / /a / /GPL / /violation / /with / /no / /verification / /whatsoever / /Just / /a / /bunch / /of / /ranting / /posts / /about / /freedom / /for / /that / /matter / /no / /verification / /of / /articles / /at / /all / /I / /wish / /I / /could / /count / /the / /number / /of / /times / /Slashdots / /been / /scammed / /on / /two / /hands / /but / /its / /been / /so / /many / /April / /Fools / /articles / /on / /Slashdot / /THESE / /ARENT / /FUNNY / /I / /wasnt / /going / /to / /explain / /but / /whatever / /Okay / /lets / /say / /you / /run / /a / /website / /On / /April / /Fools / /you / /post / /say / /ONE / /or / /TWO / /fake / /pieces / /of / /news / /along / /with / /the / /real / /news / /This / /way / /some / /people / /are / /fooled / /By / /posting / /ALL / /fake / /news / /and / /jokes / /no / /one / /falls / /for / /the / /prank / /no / /one / /buys / /Lokis / /games / /but / /there / /is / /a / /big / /mystery / /when / /they / /go / /out / /of / /business / /no / /NNTP / /frontend / /to / /Slashdot / /direct / /links / /to / /bugzilla / /continuing / /tightening / /of / /the / /troll / /filters / /to / /the / /point / /where / /even / /normal / /posts / /are / /rejected / /by / /some / /stupid / /criteria / /self / /righteous / /posters / /who / /want / /everything / /under / /the / /sun / /to / /be / /Open / /Source / /even / /though / /they / /have / /never / /written / /a / /line / /of / /code / /in / /their / /life / /whenever / /an / /article / /on / /a / /new / /scripting / /language / /is / /posted / /all / /of / /the / /C / /users / /chime / /in / /but / /its / /not / /as / /fast / /as / /C / /shortly / /after / /all / /the / /assembly / /users / /chime / /in / /assembly / /is / /the / /fastest / /predictably / /right / /after / /that / /someone / /says / /why / /dont / /we / /all / /just / /use / /machine / /code / /anecdotes / /on / /your / /grandmother / /using / /Linux / /to / /check / /her / /email / /and / /whatnot / /this / /ALONE / /proves / /that / /Linux / /is / /better / /than / /Windows / /for / /ALL / /uses / /cultlike / /devotion / /to / /Linux / /reserve / /your / /fanaticism / /for / /a / /church / /not / /a / /kernel / /someone / /is / /not / /less / /of / /a / /person / /if / /they / /dont / /use / /Unix / /posters / /who / /think / /that / /BeOS / /is / /having / /a / /bad / /moment / /and / /will / /surely / /rise / /to / /defeat / /all / /other / /operating / /systems / /posters / /who / /think / /Palm / /will / /open / /the / /source / /to / /BeOS / /for / /no / /reason / /at / /all / /people / /who / /think / /that / /Amiga / /isnt / /dead / /The / /new / /virtual / /Amiga / /doesnt / /count / /people / /who / /think / /that / /OS2 / /isnt / /dead / /Ecomstation / /doesnt / /count / /people / /who / /bemoan / /the / /loss / /of / /OS2 / /while / /thinking / /it / /was / /a / /big / /conspiracy / /completely / /IGNORING / /the / /fact / /that / /IBM / /did / /not / /advertise / /we / /all / /KNOW / /OS2 / /was / /technically / /superior / /to / /Windows / /at / /the / /time / /You / /dont / /have / /to / /bedazzle / /us / /with / /tales / /of / /running / /all / /the / /latest / /Windows / /and / /DOS / /applications / /aside / /native / /OS2 / /apps / /Weve / /heard / /it / /all / /before / /We / /know / /it / /WAS / /better / /people / /who / /think / /that / /this / /is / /the / /last / /year / /ever / /well / /ever / /have / /to / /hire / /C / /programmers / /because / /as / /we / /all / /know / /Java / /is / /going / /to / /kill / /it / /off / /this / /is / /a / /good / /one / /Completely / /expositionary / /articles / /such / /as / /Surprised / /by / /Weath / /in / /which / /ESR / /BRAGGED / /about / /how / /rich / /he / /was / /and / /how / /he / /wasnt / /going / /to / /give / /us / /any / /money / /NO / /SIR / /bitchslapping / /benchmarks / /that / /pit / /say / /Linux / /lastest / /revision / /against / /FreeBSD / /30 / /or / /something / /old / /and / /useless / /how / /banner / /ads / /for / /the / /site / /only / /link / /to / /other / /OSDN / /sites / /any / /links / /to / /nytimescom / /when / /someone / /writes / /a / /comment / /with / /H / /to / /signify / /deletions / /the / /moderation / /rtbl / /meta / /moderation / /people / /that / /spell / /Red / /Hat / /as / /RedCrap

-pwpbot

GNU is crap (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#3793214)

Linux is dead. Face it you Slashdot freaks :)

The problem with DotGNU. (2)

be-fan (61476) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793480)

Here's the dillema. I'm seeing this move from nice, open standards (C/C++) to languages that have strings attached, like Java and C$^H#. Even if C# is an ECMA standard, there is no getting around the fact that Microsoft is the one guiding its development and evolution. I don't know about the rest of you, but after what MS has done with Win32, I really don't trust them to come up with good API and language standards. And even if they do, I'd rather not have their hands on the riens. Why is there no truly open project (I'm talking ISO C/C++ open) trying to take on C# and Java instead of merely copying them?

Looks real important (1)

0ki (546472) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793518)

Is CIL a standard? has joined #dotgnu g \_ \ _.--------.______\| | g o \ \______// _ ___ _ (_(__> \ | o a \ . C ___) ______ (_(____> | / a t /\ | C ____)/ \ (_____> |_/ t s / /\| C_____) | (___> / \ s e | ( _C_____)\______/ // _/ / \ e x | \ |__ \\_________// (__/ | x ö SignOff Masochist: #dotgnu (Remote closed the connection) @_@ I think MS's biggest strength is their development toolset. If Linux had an equivelent for DotGNU/Mono then we would be in a much stronger position. This appears to be Miguel de Icaza's perspective Yeah let's moderate the "meet" so nobody can ask any real questions.

Re:Looks real important (1)

0ki (546472) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793530)

Is CIL a standard?
ö t3rmin4t0r [~gopal@61.1.229.139] has joined #dotgnu
g \_ \ _.--------.______\| | g
o \ \______// _ ___ _ (_(__> \ | o
a \ . C ___) ______ (_(____> | / a
t /\ | C ____)/ \ (_____> |_/ t
s / /\| C_____) | (___> / \ s
e | ( _C_____)\______/ // _/ / \ e
x | \ |__ \\_________// (__/ | x
ö SignOff Masochist: #dotgnu (Remote closed the connection)
@_@
I think MS's biggest strength is their development toolset. If Linux
had an equivelent for DotGNU/Mono then we would be in a much
stronger position. This appears to be Miguel de Icaza's perspective

grrr stupid html

This story should be brought back up...... (1)

3seas (184403) | more than 11 years ago | (#3793632)

This story should be brought back up like a day or two before it begins
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