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New Amiga Hardware Runs Mac OS

timothy posted about 12 years ago | from the the-few-the-insane-amiga-fanatics dept.

Amiga 343

Ethan writes: "A developer on the Yahoo Amiga One mailing list has successfully installed MacOS 9.2 using Mac On Linux. And it seems that adding OS X support is on the to-do horizon for the MOL developers. I think that it will be interesting to see the people at Apple lose some sleep now that a low cost, fast, off the shelf solution exists to run Mac OS, without any Apple hardware. If it doesn't do anything else, at least it will give the people buying the new Amiga One G3 PPC board an existing software base." Mind you, I've never even seen an Amiga One, but it would be a pretty silly thing to make up ;) Update: 07/05 07:03 GMT by T : Mike Bouma piped up with a link to a page featuring the same hardware, in this case running Debian, OpenOffice.org and Mozilla.

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it's early (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Cowrad (571322) | about 12 years ago | (#3825756)

but i still love you

Encore. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825758)

SEND IN THE TROLLS
sung to the tune of Send In The Clowns
Isn't it brown?
Gigantic and round?
You know it's distended when it
no longer makes a sound.
Where are the trolls?

They tick you off
(you stupid asshole.)
Tilting your monitor with PWP
is their goal.
Where are the trolls?
There ought to be trolls.

Just when I stopped
giving a shit
they send news of hot grits
and petrified chicks exquisite.
We all should remember
Junis the Afghan
or my favorite
OOG THE CAVEMAN.

Where'd the time go?
Troll Tuesday's near;
a guaranteed free-for-all.
I like cold beer.
And where are the trolls?
Quick, send in the trolls.
Don't bother, they're here.

? [goatse.cx]
! [trollaxor.com]
More laughs than you can possibly
fit in your palm.
And where are the trolls?
There ought to be trolls.
Just ask your mom.

Fuck me in the ass! (-1)

on by (572414) | about 12 years ago | (#3825760)

I want to be the next goatse guy!

Royal 4th July hangover (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825976)

In recent months, the American rogue state has torn up the Kyoto treaty, which would decrease global warming and the probability of environmental disaster. It has threatened to use nuclear weapons in "pre-emptive strikes" (a threat echoed by Hoon). It has tried to sabotage the setting up of an international criminal court, understandably, because its generals and leading politicians might be summoned as defendants.

It has further undermined the authority of the United Nations by allowing Israel to block a UN committee's investigation of the Israeli assault on the Palestinian refugee camp at Jenin; and it has ordered the Palestinians to get rid of their elected leader in favour of an American stooge.

It ignored the World Food Summit in Italy; and at summit conferences in Canada and Indonesia it has blocked genuine aid, such as clean water and electricity, to the most deprived people on earth. Proposals to increase American food subsidies by 80 per cent are designed to secure American domination of the world foodgrains market.

("When we get up from the breakfast table every morning," said the chief executive of the Cargill corporation, the world's biggest food company, "much of what we have eaten - cereals, bread, coffee, sugar and so on - has passed through the lands of my company." Cargill's goal is to double in size every five to seven years).

There is a desperate edge to most of America's rogue actions. The Christian "free market" fundamentalists running Washington are worried. The US current account deficit is running at a record $34billion. Foreign purchases of the huge US debt are falling rapidly. The US stockmarket is heavily over-valued, and the dollar is uncertain.

As one commentator has put it, the "Bush doctrine" looks like "one last attempt to order the world entirely around the requirements of US monopoly capital, before it can long hope to do so".

IN other words this may well be the last throw of the dice before the US economy goes into serious decline - as yesterday's dramatic fall in the stock markets indicated.

This means controlling the oil and fossil fuel riches in Central Asia. It means attacking Iraq, installing a replacement Saddam Hussein and taking over the world's second-largest source of oil. It means surrounding a new economic challenger, China, with bases, and intimidating the leaders of its principal economic rival, Europe, by undermining NATO, and setting off a trade war.

I have just visited the United States, and it is clear many people there are worried. And many dare not say so. Their views are seldom reported in the American mainstream media, which is self-censored and controlled, perhaps as never before.

Instead, the air is thick with the views of the likes of Charles Krauthammer, of the Washington Post. "Unilateralism is the key to our success," he wrote, in describing the world of the next fifty years: a world without protection from nuclear attack or environmental damage for the citizens of any country except the United States; a world where "democracy" means nothing if its benefits are at odds with American "interests"; a world in which to express dissent against these "interests" brands one a terrorist and justifies surveillance and repression.

There is only one way such rogue power can be resisted. It is by speaking out and urgently. If our government won't, we must.

no (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825763)

way

Executor (0, Offtopic)

dknj (441802) | about 12 years ago | (#3825764)

Speaking of MacOS.. why hasn't a decent MacOS emulator been made for the PC yet? Executor was neat, but it hasn't had any major advances in almost 5 years!

-dk

Re:Executor (3, Insightful)

bobtheprophet (587843) | about 12 years ago | (#3825782)

Making a mac emulator for PC also requires emulating the hardware, which isn't easy to do. There are a few out there, but they don't work terribly well. here [google.com] is the google directory.

Re:Executor (3, Informative)

zztzed (279) | about 12 years ago | (#3825811)

BasiliskII (Google for it, I'm too lazy to find a link) has worked fairly well for me. Note, however, that it only emulates 68k Macs and requires a valid Mac ROM image.

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825765)

Yeah.

woo hoo (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825766)

go amiga

Is this my FP? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825768)

Is It?

Hmm.. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825771)

Why are europeans such whining little faggots?

Re:Hmm.. (-1)

anonymous cowfart (576665) | about 12 years ago | (#3825846)

As a European, I know it's because we are all jealous of the Greatest Nation on Earth(TM), the USA.

USA - the real rogue state (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825987)

Jealous?! What the fuck?

In recent months, the American rogue state has torn up the Kyoto treaty, which would decrease global warming and the probability of environmental disaster. It has threatened to use nuclear weapons in "pre-emptive strikes" (a threat echoed by Hoon). It has tried to sabotage the setting up of an international criminal court, understandably, because its generals and leading politicians might be summoned as defendants.

It has further undermined the authority of the United Nations by allowing Israel to block a UN committee's investigation of the Israeli assault on the Palestinian refugee camp at Jenin; and it has ordered the Palestinians to get rid of their elected leader in favour of an American stooge.

It ignored the World Food Summit in Italy; and at summit conferences in Canada and Indonesia it has blocked genuine aid, such as clean water and electricity, to the most deprived people on earth. Proposals to increase American food subsidies by 80 per cent are designed to secure American domination of the world foodgrains market.

("When we get up from the breakfast table every morning," said the chief executive of the Cargill corporation, the world's biggest food company, "much of what we have eaten - cereals, bread, coffee, sugar and so on - has passed through the lands of my company." Cargill's goal is to double in size every five to seven years).

There is a desperate edge to most of America's rogue actions. The Christian "free market" fundamentalists running Washington are worried. The US current account deficit is running at a record $34billion. Foreign purchases of the huge US debt are falling rapidly. The US stockmarket is heavily over-valued, and the dollar is uncertain.

As one commentator has put it, the "Bush doctrine" looks like "one last attempt to order the world entirely around the requirements of US monopoly capital, before it can long hope to do so".

IN other words this may well be the last throw of the dice before the US economy goes into serious decline - as yesterday's dramatic fall in the stock markets indicated.

This means controlling the oil and fossil fuel riches in Central Asia. It means attacking Iraq, installing a replacement Saddam Hussein and taking over the world's second-largest source of oil. It means surrounding a new economic challenger, China, with bases, and intimidating the leaders of its principal economic rival, Europe, by undermining NATO, and setting off a trade war.

I have just visited the United States, and it is clear many people there are worried. And many dare not say so. Their views are seldom reported in the American mainstream media, which is self-censored and controlled, perhaps as never before.

Instead, the air is thick with the views of the likes of Charles Krauthammer, of the Washington Post. "Unilateralism is the key to our success," he wrote, in describing the world of the next fifty years: a world without protection from nuclear attack or environmental damage for the citizens of any country except the United States; a world where "democracy" means nothing if its benefits are at odds with American "interests"; a world in which to express dissent against these "interests" brands one a terrorist and justifies surveillance and repression.

There is only one way such rogue power can be resisted. It is by speaking out and urgently. If our government won't, we must.

Re:USA - the real rogue state (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825996)

The US current account deficit is running at a record $34billion. Foreign purchases of the huge US debt are falling rapidly.

So, is this like a "USA is dying!!" post?

Re:USA - the real rogue state (1)

Juln (41313) | about 12 years ago | (#3826013)

Yeah, haha, being troubled by abysmal sales, etc!!

Re:USA - the real rogue state (-1)

Big Dogs Cock (539391) | about 12 years ago | (#3826023)

Much as is pains me to agree with an AC, yes it does. Once it comes out that the top 500 US companies are worth a total of £4.50 (note £ = pound, # = hash), it will be dying.

Re:USA - the real rogue state (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3826037)

The Kyoto Protocol? (not `treaty'...) Wow, we can delay global warming by, what, six years or something? Woop de fucking doo.

And who gives a fuck what the palestinians want? The palestinian whining about being massacred is worse than listening to jews bitching about the holocaust. At least the jews didn't do anything that necessitated genocide, unlike muslims, who should all be shot. Preferably turned into fertilizer as well.

Re:Hmm.. (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3826026)

You mean you didn't notice until now? Good question. It probably has something to do with the fact that Europe is an overcrowded polluted shithole. OTOH it could have something to do with the antitrust authorities that beat their chests about cracking down on Microsoft and then wind up doing nothing; or it could be something else entirely.

Throw out the good, replace it with the bad (-1, Offtopic)

ObviousGuy (578567) | about 12 years ago | (#3825776)

Amigo OS blows away the MacOS in almost every field. Any Amigo zealot can tell you that.

It reminds me of a story.

As I walked down the sidewalk towards the cute girl dressed in blue and yellow handing out packets of tissue, I noticed that the billboard for Profecio had been taken down and three men hung suspended in front of the empty section of wall painting over any remaining remnants of the old advertisement. I walked past the girl and shook my head, no I didn't want any tissues today.

"They're making room for a new Aeon school sign there, just so you know," came a voice from behind me. Crystal clear without a hint of accent, it caught me quite off-guard. Since I arrived here three months ago I hadn't heard English spoken out in public, much less heard someone direct it at me.

I looked over my shoulder to find no one save the cute tissue girl and her tissue-grabbing clients who looked at no one, especially a foreigner like me. She was smiling at me, though, her eyes wide and neck craned over the balding man between us. "Was that me, you were talking to?" I asked.

"Sure," she said as she handed a tiny old lady begging for tissues a fourth packet, "you seemed to be contemplating the billboard quite hard. I figured I'd let you in on the big secret."

"The big secret?"

"Yeah, you know, I told you already. The Aeon Language School has bought out that billboard right out from under Profecio and is going to put their own."

"Secret huh?" I quipped. It wasn't like I didn't know what Aeon was, I've seen their posters all over the city. With their promise to teach English through immersion and a beaming Ewan McGregor effecting a professorial stance, they have been the fastest growing English school in the city for the past year.

"Well, there's more to it than that," she continued with her perfect English, "but I can't really talk about it now. I've got to finish with these tissues before I can leave this spot or do anything. My boss will kill me if I don't empty these boxes. Are you free this evening?"

"I should be," I answered, "I've got to get to work now. I'm quite late as it is. Can I meet you somewhere around 7:00?"

"I'll be waiting underneath the empty billboard. I can fill you in on the rest of the secret then."

I nodded and gave her a big smile and turned back towards my office building. A date. Tonight! Can things get any better on a Friday morning?

I looked at my watch and saw that it was a quarter past 11. The office had already started buzzing with calls and clients and things I really didn't have any desire to take part in, not today at least. I dialed my assistant and told her I was sick and not going to make it to the office. I gave her the day off too, if she wanted.

At the intersection I turned right instead of left, towards the train station instead of the office. Awash in my own thoughts of this evening's secrets, I boarded the train and headed off to Chinatown. I can always think more clearly in Chinatown.

Re:Throw out the good, replace it with the bad (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825859)

Are you going to finish that story, or leave us hanging?

Re:Throw out the good, replace it with the bad (0, Offtopic)

B3ryllium (571199) | about 12 years ago | (#3825913)

While he was in Chinatown, some bum rolled him and left him unconscious ... when he woke up, he was dazed and confused.

For six months, he thought he was CowboyNeal. Hasn't been laid since.

Yah come on (0, Offtopic)

red5 (51324) | about 12 years ago | (#3825932)

Seriously ObviousGuy, I'm intrigued what happens next.

side note: for those who aren't in "the know" OG lives in Japan.

So did you meat her? Was she cute? Aren't you married?

More to come (1)

ObviousGuy (578567) | about 12 years ago | (#3825945)

It's just a short story. :-)

But they did tear down the Profecio billboard on the corner of Nishi-shinjuku and Shibuya-ku. This story may not be finished yet.

I don't grab the tissues anymore because I've got about 50 packets sitting on my desk at work. I've just run out of places to put them.

Re:More to come (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3826003)

Could you also please explain why she was handing out tissues out on the street?

Is it like a subtle hint for:

a) Please stop dripping snot all over the place.
b) Please feel free to masturbate thinking of me and wipe your cum on this piece of tissue.
c) Please blow your nose on our corporate logo and check out our new products the next time you go shopping.

Re:More to come (1)

ObviousGuy (578567) | about 12 years ago | (#3826029)

It's all three. Really. [216.239.39.100]

get with the planet (-1, Troll)

Dreamacyde (590403) | about 12 years ago | (#3825781)

My sh*ts not that elite and neither are yours, get with the planet

I don't really think Apple will lose any sleep. (2, Insightful)

mattkinabrewmindspri (538862) | about 12 years ago | (#3825787)

Apple has basically abandoned everything pre-OS X, and Steve Jobs has already declared Classic(OSX) dead.

Re:I don't really think Apple will lose any sleep. (1)

mattkinabrewmindspri (538862) | about 12 years ago | (#3825796)

Damned html! I put the less than carrot in there. If you didn't already know, Classic is any Mac OS which is 9.2.2 or below.

Re:I don't really think Apple will lose any sleep. (-1)

Genghis Troll (158585) | about 12 years ago | (#3825929)

Mac lover that you are, that "carrot" probably ended up deep inside your ass. Give Steve Jobs or Lunix Torvalds a call; I'm sure either would be glad to help you find it.

sue happy (1)

blugecko (152079) | about 12 years ago | (#3825790)

i can't help but wonder how many nasty-grams apple is gonna send out over this one...

dragonbitches - the motherfuckin' saga continues! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825794)

Twenty elven bitches gettin' down
Suckin' on the dragon dick, fuckin' the whole town
Orcus and King Arthur bangin' the same ho
Evil and good don't matter when the dragoncum flow
.
Twenty elven bitches dancing 'round a circle
The sorceress gonna conjure up a sperm elemental
That dumbass bitch gates in old Saint Nick
He takes 'em all crusin' on Tenser's floating dick
.
Twenty elven bitches token' on a bong
Or maybe that's Elminster's big phat schlong
Whatever, nobody gives a fuck anyway
Only thing they care about is party all day
.
You know what I'm sayin'????

Not likely... (0, Insightful)

PRickard (16563) | about 12 years ago | (#3825798)

Mac OS simply will not run without the hardware ROMs. I don't see how the Amiga could run it, much less run it decently - and if it can, Apple will have their hair. This is a vaporware announcement.

Re:Not likely... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825830)

Actually the ROM requirement was only from older versions of the Mac OS. They are running one that doesnt reqire apple's ROM.

More likely than you'd think (2, Informative)

CmdrTaco (editor) (564483) | about 12 years ago | (#3825840)

You can download a ROM image [sourceforge.net] for the Power Macintosh 7200, 7500, 8200, 8500, and Starmax 4160 because apparently they don't have the correct hardware ROM. I don't see how that would be so different from doing the same thing with an Amiga system.

Re:Not likely... (2)

civilizedINTENSITY (45686) | about 12 years ago | (#3825842)

"Mac-on-Linux lets you run MacOS under Linux/ppc. MOL runs natively on the processor, i.e. it is very fast. Unlike most mac emulators, MOL can run MacOS 8.6 and later WITHOUT A ROM IMAGE."

mol-0.9.63.tgz doesn't look like its alpha, let alone vapor...Anybody running this?

That isn't true. (3, Interesting)

autopr0n (534291) | about 12 years ago | (#3825853)

Ever heard of a company called Compaq?

All you have to do is write a work-alike rom that does the same things as the apple one. And since this is mostly being done for the hell of it, and you arn't limited by hardware you can make it as big and slow as you'd like.

You can also patch diffrent versions of the OS to run without the ROM if you want to. Or you can use a combination of the two methods (for example, taking out any verification code in the OS to make sure it's running with a genuine apple ROM)

Did you even click the link? (2, Funny)

phriedom (561200) | about 12 years ago | (#3825856)

Oh you did? You looked at the Mac On Linux site and this:
"What Is Mac On Linux? Mac-on-Linux lets you run MacOS under Linux/ppc. MOL runs natively on the processor, i.e. it is very fast. Unlike most mac emulators, MOL can run MacOS 8.6 and later WITHOUT A ROM IMAGE

I didn't add the emphasis, by the way. So you read that and decided it is all a big fat lie. I wish I was smart like you and knew everything about everything.

Re:the ROM's aren't hardware anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825892)

IIRC Mac OS 8 was the first rev to not require hardware ROMS anymore. they do it in software instead. I just looked in my Classic system folder and see a 3MB file titled Mac OS ROM. So it is quite possible they have got OS 9 running on a non Apple rig. Another thing that sticks out in my memory is that someone had OS 8(because of the software ROMS) running on a CHRP compliant computer but since that endevour ate sh*te before it even got established. Apple never had to worry about that kind of competition.

Re:Not likely... (3, Insightful)

Matthias Wiesmann (221411) | about 12 years ago | (#3826007)

Mac OS simply will not run without the hardware ROMs.

This is getting less and less true, so called new world machines [apple.com] only rely on the ROM for booting (all machines since the iMac are new worlds machines). The ROM that contains the toolbox code is basically a memory mapped file (you can see this file in the system folder).

Darwin does not need any special ROMs (how would it run on x86 machines?). And Mac OS X basically runs on top of darwin (this is how unsupported machines [macsales.com] can run OS X). The only part of the Mac ROM that needs to be somehow emulated is the open firmware booting code that sets up the device tree and hands it to the kernel. Open firmware is IEEE standard [openfirmware.org] .

So roughtly to run OSX on a unsupported machine, you need to implement a booting system that can hand a device tree to the kernel and write darwin drivers for your hardware / emulation plateform. As far as I know, you can do both legally.

Of course there might be some hidden checks in OSX, but the open source nature of Darwin make this improbable. I don't think that Apple will care about this simply because it does not seem to be a serious threat to their marketshare...

Re:Not likely... (1)

Perdo (151843) | about 12 years ago | (#3826018)

It becomes a serious threat to their market share when a company decides to start producing clones... OS X on x86. Dream OS on faster cheaper hardware than Apple offers.

Re:Not likely... (2)

Patrik Nordebo (170) | about 12 years ago | (#3826084)

It's highly unlikely that an x86 is going to be running PowerPC code faster than a PowerPC, and since MacOS X is only available as PowerPC binaries, I doubt Apple has much to fear from someone selling x86 machines running MacOS X.

FIRST POLITE VOODOO CURSE POST (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825806)

Plz die. Thx.

You are not logged in (-1)

Big Dogs Cock (539391) | about 12 years ago | (#3826035)

u r gay plz fx. Thx.

The Amiga is coming back. (1, Troll)

cbr372 (193706) | about 12 years ago | (#3825807)

I've predicted this for a long time. The first generation of Amiga platforms were revolutionary, and blew away offerings from other personal computer manufacturers. In fact, it was only recently, with AGP systems, that modern PCs could even match the first Amiga (the A1000) in terms of graphics sync/performance.

The new generation of Amigas will be running on PPC-compatible hardware. (Even older Amgias can get extension boards with PPC chips on them, though), and will truly rock. It's been a while since we've seen a truly good mixture of hardware and software, working together well to build the ultimate platform. That was... hmm - the late 80s and early 90s. The Amiga. The x86 hardware has (and still does) prohibit the PC from reaching this level, and MacOS (up until MacOS X) has been a complete toy operating system.

Just when PCs and Macs are starting to catch up with the original Amiga, the new Amiga is getting ready to be unleashed.

Very timely, actually. Things could get interesting in the next few years.

Re:The Amiga is coming back. (2, Insightful)

josh crawley (537561) | about 12 years ago | (#3825849)


---"I've predicted this for a long time. The first generation of Amiga platforms were revolutionary, and blew away offerings from other personal computer manufacturers. In fact, it was only recently, with AGP systems, that modern PCs could even match the first Amiga (the A1000) in terms of graphics sync/performance."

Sounds like you're an Amiga fanboy. Care to back up your "Assertions" with real numbers?

---"The new generation of Amigas will be running on PPC-compatible hardware. (Even older Amgias can get extension boards with PPC chips on them, though), and will truly rock. It's been a while since we've seen a truly good mixture of hardware and software, working together well to build the ultimate platform. That was... hmm - the late 80s and early 90s. The Amiga. The x86 hardware has (and still does) prohibit the PC from reaching this level,"

Care to mention examples? Perfreablly comparing to the Amiga (the old ones)

"and MacOS (up until MacOS X) has been a complete toy operating system."

Agreed.

"Just when PCs and Macs are starting to catch up with the original Amiga, the new Amiga is getting ready to be unleashed."

I'll believe it when I can use it somewhere. I've heard about the "Amiga 1" ever since '98 from usenet. Unless you're talking to the developers, I see this as much fud as the Troll "BSD is dying".

Better design (1)

Sheetrock (152993) | about 12 years ago | (#3825890)

Sounds like you're an Amiga fanboy. Care to back up your "Assertions" with real numbers?

The Amiga motherboard circuitry was designed with a bit more logic (pun intended) than our PC motherboards. Until AGP, the PC graphics hardware had more layers of abstraction to pass through because of the distance from the bus. I don't have hard numbers, but I'll bet this is what he's referring to; they got rid of a lot of cruft when we went AGP.

As far as hardware goes, we're still maintaining backwards compatibility with the 16-bit days (80286). The Amiga is cut loose from that type of restriction because they can use emulation and still achieve a closer compatibility mesh than we can with flipping between our 16-bit and 32-bit registers.

Basically, we're cranking up raw speed in our components, but they're designing for efficiency, after which they can throw money into faster components and end up well ahead of the game. If you've followed the Amiga demoscene, I'm surprised you didn't pick up on this.

Re:Better design (5, Informative)

OneFix (18661) | about 12 years ago | (#3825994)

The great thing about the Amiga was that the performance of the system didn't rely solely on the CPU + MEM combo.

My 14MHz A-1200 still seems more responsive than even some high end wintel boxen. Now, I know the OS is partly to thank forthis, but the problem with modern wintel hardware is that everything is being designed to run off of the CPU...Softmodems, integrated video, sound, and even integrated IDE interfaces use the CPU and System Memory.

The Classic Amiga wasted as little CPU time on non-mathematical functions as possible. Which seems to be the exact opposite directon the wintel platform is going.

Re:Better design (2)

mgv (198488) | about 12 years ago | (#3826051)

My 14MHz A-1200 still seems more responsive than even some high end wintel boxen.

Yes, I have to agree. My amiga was as fast as any system made yet in terms of the windowing. It never slowed up, never ground down. Given that it did what it did as fast as it did it, I can't see how any OS can be faster in terms of user interaction than it was.

Of course, I don't think it would decompress MP3's on the fly.

Say what you like (I'd love to see them back, but if BeOS didn't fly, cant see how AmigaOS will) about it being a piece of history - it was a good piece of history.

but the problem with modern wintel hardware is that everything is being designed to run off of the CPU...Softmodems, integrated video, sound, and even integrated IDE interfaces use the CPU and System Memory

Yes, its a fault and a feature. A CPU is so flexible its cheaper to make one fast one and spread it around than 50+ hardware widgets. Having said that, more things should be on the motherboard these days - like soundcards, modems, and some general logic unit to decompress MP3's and DVD's.

Michael

Re:The Amiga is coming back. (2)

tunah (530328) | about 12 years ago | (#3825948)

"and MacOS (up until MacOS X) has been a complete toy operating system."
Agreed.

Uh... by that definition, ditto win9x.

Re:The Amiga is coming back. (2)

josh crawley (537561) | about 12 years ago | (#3825991)

--- Uh... by that definition, ditto win9x.

Correct also. What is the best OS for games? Windows. Games are just really interactive toys, nothing more.

Re:The Amiga is coming back. (1)

CountBrass (590228) | about 12 years ago | (#3825926)

I think you're living in a dream world. The best hardware and software, even when combined, don't always win, and even when they do they generally don't do so because they were the best. I would have thought betamax, os/2 and linux would have told you that. Personally I've always considered Apple to be a far worse company than Bill's - they're just nowhere near as competent from a business pov.

Re:The Amiga is coming back. (2)

OneFix (18661) | about 12 years ago | (#3825964)

I looked all through the origonal poster's comment, and couldn't find anywhere that he implied the Amiga would "win".

The Amiga community (as well as the Mac community) realized along time ago that the Wintel platform will be on the top of the heap for along time to come.

But, that's not to say those "enlightened few" can't use the better hardware.

You know there is still a place the Amiga has stayed on top...brodacast video...

Re:The Amiga is coming back. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825961)

Let's hope they finally fix that friggin "GURU MEDITATION ERROR" that corrupted countless disks

Re:The Amiga is coming back. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825962)

no it's not.

what you are observing are NOT signs of life from Amiga. Amiga is truly dead.

Probably just some intestinal bacteria or swelling.

http://www.so-to-speak-if-you-will.com/mariko/fi n. html

Urban Myth: VHS was inferior for consumers (1, Offtopic)

joneshenry (9497) | about 12 years ago | (#3826024)

That VHS was the technologically inferior choice that consumers were "tricked" into purchasing is simply an urban myth that has been exposed by those examining the role of pornography [indiana.edu] in encouraging growth and adoption of new media [guardian.co.uk] . VHS won because its length was more convenient for the renting of pornographic movies versus Betamax's initial targetting of time-shifting. VHS served a real need for people to be able to more conveniently view pornography in the privacy of their home.

Open your mind and you'll see that the triumph of VHS was the triumph of freedom versus the corporate vision of Betamax, a decision the consumers wisely made. The consumers made the right decision.

Re:The Amiga is coming back. (4, Insightful)

Mekanix (127309) | about 12 years ago | (#3826041)

Oh Pleeease. Wake up from your dreamworld.

In fact, it was only recently, with AGP systems, that modern PCs could even match the first Amiga (the A1000) in terms of graphics sync/performance.

Recently? Already at the time Commodore went belly up Amiga was starting to show its age. Doom was the game to show that Amigas "superior" chipsets wasn't so superior.

Just when PCs and Macs are starting to catch up with the original Amiga, the new Amiga is getting ready to be unleashed.

Christ, I dumped Amiga 4 years ago and since then I've been catching up to the rest of the world. The PC's and certainly Mac's surparsed Amiga years ago.

Very timely, actually. Things could get interesting in the next few years.

How so? There is absolutely nothing interesting about the new Amiga. The most advanced feature of the new OS is... *gasp* .... some sort of memory protection. How do you create a modern OS in less than a year? You don't, OS4 will mostly be a PPC-port of OS3.1 (H sits on 3.5/3.9).

And what about software? There have hardly been released anything for the Amiga the last 8-10 years. And even less for all those PPC-addons.

And then there is the HW... It'l be closed and crippled and "donglelised" as always (just as a Mac)... I'm sure the slashdot-crowd will be more interested in bplan's [bplan-gmbh.de] more open PPC-board.

No, there is absolutely nothing interesting about the new Amiga.

got Turner Diaries? I (-1)

xdfgf (460453) | about 12 years ago | (#3825816)

(For those who don't know The Turner Diaries is a pretty wild book. It was the main inspiration for Tim McVeigh in Oklahoma [besides the FBI murdering innocent people])

A.M.
New Baltimore
April 100

Chapter 1

September 16, 1991. Today it finally began! After all these years
of talking-and nothing but talking-we have finally taken our first
action. We are at war with the System, and it is no longer a war of
words.
I cannot sleep, so I will try writing down some of the thoughts
which are flying through my head.
It is not safe to talk here. The walls are quite thin, and the
neighbors might wonder at a late-night conference. Besides,
George and Katherine are already asleep. Only Henry and I are still
awake, and he's just staring at the ceiling.
I am really uptight. l am so jittery I can barely sit still. And I'm
exhausted. I've been up since 5:30 this morning, when George
phoned to warn that the arrests had begun, and it's after midnight
now. I've been keyed up and on the move all day.
But at the same time I'm exhilarated. We have finally acted! How
long we will be able to continue defying the System, no one
knows. Maybe it will all end tomorrow, but we must not think
about that. Now that we have begun, we must continue with the
plan we have been developing so carefully ever since the Gun
Raids two years ago.
What a blow that was to us! And how it shamed us! All that brave
talk by patriots, "The government will never take my guns away,"
and then nothing but meek submission when it happened.
On the other hand, maybe we should be heartened by the fact that
there were still so many of us who had guns then, nearly 18 months
after the Cohen Act had outlawed all private ownership of firearms
in the United States. It was only because so many of us defied the
law and hid our weapons instead of turning them in that the
government wasn't able to act more harshly against us after the
Gun Raids.
I'll never forget that terrible day: November 9, 1989. They
knocked on my door at five in the morning. I was completely

unsuspecting as I got up to see who it was.
I opened the door, and four Negroes came pushing into the
apartment before I could stop them. One was carrying a baseball
bat, and two had long kitchen knives thrust into their belts. The one
with the bat shoved me back into a corner and stood guard over me
with his bat raised in a threatening position while the other three
began ransacking my apartment.

My first thought was that they were robbers. Robberies of this
sort had become all too common since the Cohen Act, with groups
of Blacks forcing their way into White homes to rob and rape,
knowing that even if their victims had guns they probably would
not dare use them.
Then the one who was guarding me flashed some kind of card
and informed me that he and his accomplices were "special
deputies" for the Northern Virginia Human Relations Council.
They were searching for firearms, he said.
I couldn't believe it. It just couldn't be happening. Then I saw that
they were wearing strips of green cloth tied around their left arms.
As they dumped the contents of drawers on the floor and pulled
luggage from the closet, they were ignoring things that robbers
wouldn't have passed up: my brand-new electric razor, a valuable
gold pocket watch, a milk bottle full of dimes. They were looking
for firearms!
Right after the Cohen Act was passed, all of us in the
Organization had cached our guns and ammunition where they
weren't likely to be found. Those in my unit had carefully greased
our weapons, sealed them in an oil drum, and spent all of one
tedious weekend burying the drum in an eight-foot-deep pit 200
miles away in the woods of western Pennsylvania.
But I had kept one gun out of the cache. I had hidden my .357
magnum revolver and 50 rounds of ammunition inside the door
frame between the kitchen and the living room. By pulling out two
loosened nails and removing one board from the door frame I
could get to my revolver in about two minutes flat if I ever needed

it. I had timed myself.
But a police search would never uncover it. And these
inexperienced Blacks couldn't find it in a million years.
After the three who were conducting the search had looked in all
the obvious places, they began slitting open my mattress and the
sofa cushions. I protested vigorously at this and briefly considered
trying to put up a fight.
About that time there was a commotion out in the hallway.
Another group of searchers had found a rifle hidden under a bed in
the apartment of the young couple down the hall. They had both
been handcuffed and were being forcibly escorted toward the
stairs. Both were clad only in their underwear, and the young
woman was complaining loudly about the fact that her baby was
being left alone in the apartment.
Another man walked into my apartment. He was a Caucasian,
though with an unusually dark complexion. He also wore a green
armband, and he carried an attach_ case and a clipboard.

The Blacks greeted him deferentially and reported the negative
result of their search: "No guns here, Mr. Tepper."
Tepper ran his finger down the list of names and apartment
numbers on his clipboard until he came to mine. He frowned. "This
is a bad one," he said. "He has a racist record. Been cited by the
Council twice. And he owned eight firearms which were never
turned in."
Tepper opened his attach_ case and took out a small, black object
about the size of a pack of cigarettes which was attached by a long
cord to an electronic instrument in the case. He began moving the
black object in long sweeps back and forth over the walls, while
the attach_ case emitted a dull, rumbling noise. The rumble rose in
pitch as the gadget approached the light switch, but Tepper
convinced himself that the change was caused by the metal
junction box and conduit buried in the wall. He continued his
methodical sweep.
As he swept over the left side of the kitchen door frame the

rumble jumped to a piercing shriek. Tepper grunted excitedly, and
one of the Negroes went out and came back a few seconds later
with a sledge hammer and a pry bar. It took the Negro substantially
less than two minutes after that to find my gun.
I was handcuffed without further ado and led outside. Altogether,
four of us were arrested in my apartment building. In addition to
the couple down the hall, there was an elderly man from the fourth
floor. They hadn't found a firearm in his apartment, but they had
found four shotgun shells on his closet shelf. Ammunition was also
illegal.
Mr Tepper and some of his "deputies" had more searches to carry
out, but three large Blacks with baseball bats and knives were left
to guard us in front of the apartment building.
The four of us were forced to sit on the cold sidewalk, in various
states of undress, for more than an hour until a police van finally
came for us.
As other residents of the apartment building left for work, they
eyed us curiously. We were all shivering, and the young woman
from down the hall was weeping uncontrollably.
One man stopped to ask what it was all about. One of our guards
brusquely explained that we were all under arrest for possessing
illegal weapons. The man stared at us and shook his head
disapprovingly.
Then the Black pointed to me and said: "And that one's a racist."
Still shaking his head, the man moved on.
Herb Jones, who used to belong to the Organization and was one
of the most outspoken of the "they'll-never-get-my-gun" people
before the Cohen Act, walked by quickly with his eyes averted.
His apartment had been searched too, but Herb was clean. He had
been practically the first man in town to turn his guns over to the
police after the passage of the Cohen Act made him liable to ten
years imprisonment in a Federal penitentiary if he kept them.
That was the penalty the four of us on the sidewalk were facing. It
didn't work out that way, though. The reason it didn't is that the
raids which were carried out all over the country that day netted a

lot more fish than the System had counted on: more than 800,000
persons were arrested.
At first the news media tried hard to work up enough public
sentiment against us so that the arrests would stick. The fact that
there weren't enough jail cells in the country to hold us all could be
remedied by herding us into barbed-wire enclosures outdoors until
new prison facilities could be readied, the newspapers suggested.
In freezing weather!
I still remember the Washington Post headline the next day:
"Fascist-Racist Conspiracy Smashed, Illegal Weapons Seized." But
not even the brainwashed American public could fully accept the
idea that nearly a million of their fellow citizens had been engaged
in a secret, armed conspiracy.
As more and more details of the raids leaked out, public
restlessness grew. One of the details which bothered people was
that the raiders had, for the most part, exempted Black
neighborhoods from the searches. The explanation given at first for
this was that since "racists" were the ones primarily suspected of
harboring firearms, there was relatively little need to search Black
homes.
The peculiar logic of this explanation broke down when it turned
out that a number of persons who could hardly be considered either
"racists" or "fascists" had been caught up in the raids. Among them
were two prominent liberal newspaper columnists who had earlier
been in the forefront of the antigun crusade, four Negro
Congressmen (they lived in White neighborhoods), and an
embarrassingly large number of government officials.

The list of persons to be raided, it turned out, had been compiled
primarily from firearms sales records which all gun dealers had
been required to keep. If a person had turned a gun in to the police
after the Cohen Act was passed, his name was marked off the list.
If he hadn't it stayed on, and he was raided on November 9-unless
he lived in a Black neighborhood.
In addition, certain categories of people were raided whether they

had ever purchased a firearm from a dealer or not. All the members
of the Organization were raided.
The government's list of suspects was so large that a number of
"responsible" civilian groups were deputized to assist in the raids. l
guess the planners in the System thought that most of the people on
their list had either sold their guns privately before the Cohen Act,
or had disposed of them in some other way. Probably they were
expecting only about a quarter as many people to be arrested as
actually were.
Anyway, the whole thing soon became so embarrassing and so
unwieldy that most of the arrestees were turned loose again within
a week. The group I was with-some 600 of us-was held for three
days in a high school gymnasium in Alexandria before being
released. During those three days we were fed only four times, and
we got virtually no sleep.
But the police did get mug shots, fingerprints, and personal data
from everyone. When we were released we were told that we were
still technically under arrest and could expect to be picked up again
for prosecution at any time.
The media kept yelling for prosecutions for awhile, but the issue
was gradually allowed to die. Actually, the System had bungled the
affair rather badly.
For a few days we were all more frightened and glad to be free
than anything else. A lot of people in the Organization dropped out
right then and there. They didn't want to take any more chances.
Others stayed in but used the Gun Raids as an excuse for
inactivity. Now that the patriotic element in the population had
been disarmed, they argued, we were all at the mercy of the
System and had to be much more careful. They wanted us to cease
all public recruiting activities and "go underground."
As it turned out, what they really had in mind was for the
Organization to restrict itself henceforth to "safe" activities, such
activities to consist principally in complaining-better yet,
whispering-to one another about how bad things were.
The more militant members, on the other hand, were for digging

up our weapons caches and unleashing a program of terror against
the System immediately, carrying out executions of Federal judges,
newspaper editors, legislators, and other System figures. The time
was ripe for such action, they felt, because in the wake of the Gun
Raids we could win public sympathy for such a campaign against
tyranny.
It is hard to say now whether the militants were right. Personally,
I think they were wrong-although I counted myself as one of them
at the time. We could certainly have killed a number of the
creatures responsible for America's ills, but I believe we would
have lost in the long run.
For one thing, the Organization just wasn't well disciplined
enough for waging terror against the System. There were too many
cowards and blabbermouths among us. Informers, fools,
weaklings, and irresponsible jerks would have been our undoing.
For a second thing, I am sure now that we were overoptimistic in
our judgment of the mood of the public. What we mistook as
general resentment against the System's abrogation of civil rights
during the Gun Raids was more a passing wave of uneasiness
resulting from all the commotion involved in the mass arrests.
As soon as the public had been reassured by the media that they
were in no danger, that the government was cracking down only on
the "racists, fascists, and other anti-social elements" who had kept
illegal weapons, most relaxed again and went back to their TV and
funny papers.
As we began to realize this, we were more discouraged than ever.
We had based all our plans-in fact, the whole rationale of the
Organization-on the assumption that Americans were inherently
opposed to tyranny, and that when the System became oppressive
enough they could be led to overthrow it. We had badly
underestimated the degree to which materialism had corrupted our
fellow citizens, as well as the extent to which their feelings could
be manipulated by the mass media.
As long as the government is able to keep the economy somehow
gasping and wheezing along, the people can be conditioned to

accept any outrage. Despite the continuing inflation and the
gradually declining standard of living, most Americans are still
able to keep their bellies full today, and we must simply face the
fact that that's the only thing which counts with most of them.
Discouraged and uncertain as we were, though, we began laying
new plans for the future. First, we decided to maintain our program
of public recruiting. In fact, we intensified it and deliberately made
our propaganda as provocative as possible. The purpose was not
only to attract new members with a militant disposition, but at the
same time to purge the Organization of the fainthearts and
hobbyists-the "talkers."
We also tightened up on discipline. Anyone who missed a
scheduled meeting twice in a row was expelled. Anyone who
failed to carry out a work assignment was expelled. Anyone who
violated our rule against loose talk about Organizational matters
was expelled.
We had made up our minds to have an Organization that would
be ready the next time the System provided an opportunity to
strike. The shame of our failure to act, indeed, our inability to act,
in 1989 tormented us and drove us without mercy. It was probably
the single most important factor in steeling our wills to whip the
Organization into fighting trim, despite all obstacles.
Another thing that helped-at least, with me-was the constant
threat of rearrest and prosecution. Even if I had wanted to give it
all up and join the TV-and-funnies crowd, I couldn't. I could make
no plans for a "normal," civilian future, never knowing when I
might be prosecuted under the Cohen Act. (The Constitutional
guarantee of a speedy trial, of course, has been "reinterpreted" by
the courts until it means no more than our Constitutional guarantee
of the right to keep and bear arms.)
So I, and I know this also applies to George and Katherine and
Henry, threw myself without reservation into work for the
Organization and made only plans for the future of the
Organization. My private life had ceased to matter.
Whether the Organization actually is ready, I guess we'll find out

soon enough. So far, so good, though. Our plan for avoiding
another mass roundup, like 1989, seems to have worked.
Early last year we began putting a number of new members,
unknown to the political police, into police agencies and various
quasi-official organizations, such as the human relations councils.
They served as our early-warning network and otherwise kept us
generally informed of the System's plans against us.
We were surprised at the ease with which we were able to set up
and operate this network. We never would have gotten away with
it back in the days of J. Edgar Hoover.
It is ironic that while the Organization has always warned the
public against the dangers of racial integration of our police, this
has now turned out to be a blessing in disguise for us. The "equal
opportunity" boys have really done a wonderful wrecking job on
the FBI and other investigative agencies, and their efficiency is
way down as a result. Still, we'd better not get over-confident or
careless.
Omigod! It's 4:00 AM. Got to get some sleep!

Re:got Turner Diaries? I (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3826012)

besides the FBI murdering innocent people

Yeah, and I can hear those black, unmarked helicopters hovering over your place...

Fucking religious nuts and gun-peddling members of the lunatic right should be tracked down and disarmed by any means -- including lethal foce.

Re:got Turner Diaries? I (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3826061)

all socialists will die

I used to... (1)

m.batsis (529986) | about 12 years ago | (#3825818)

... love Amigas. I remember dreaming about 4000T and even a clone named draco (or something). Slick mean graphics machines with a great OS. I have no idea about the current status, is there any Amiga Os or something or some new *2n*x flavor?

Re:I used to... (1)

Brymouse (563050) | about 12 years ago | (#3825906)

The 4000T was the top of the line, that's for sure!

I had one that I had got out of the garbage. It had a PPC board, all scsi disks, a CD burner, 3 TBC IV, V-scope, a toaster 4000, and a flyer! You wont believe why it was thrown out.....

Seams they NEVER dusted it out, and inches of dust made the power supply go bad. I cleaned it out, put a new PS in, and it booted up.

All it needed was a mouse, and monitor. Mouse was easy, just a Bus Mouse (i.e. dumb mouse), the monitor was easy, the connector was not. Anyone ever seen a DB-23 connector, what kinda crack were the designers smoking when they decided to use this connector?

Works wonderful for video editing, and live shots as well. This machine was truly before it's time. Hell in 1993 people were using Win 3.11, and a P100 was the top of the line.

Pretty neat, but..... (2, Insightful)

G3ek (589803) | about 12 years ago | (#3825824)

OS X is the perfect marriage between a simple, intuitive, aesthetically marvelous end user interface and the power, stability, and hardcore good geekness of UNIX. Furthermore, the OS is designed to run almost absolutely flawlessly on Apple hardware. So what do you get? You get a Mac, the best computer on the planet, period. Someone figured out how to put Mac OS 9.2 on something else....I think that's really cool, and OS X would be cool too....This will let others get a taste of what an awesome OS it is and further propel them to want the real thing. HAHA, the Mac will eventually dominate the planet as planned! It's almost too easy..... ps. my first post!

Heh. (2)

autopr0n (534291) | about 12 years ago | (#3825861)

It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that there are really people like this out there.

Re:Heh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825878)

"out" there? i thought they were all incarcerated in those places... oh what are they called... mental institutions?

Re:Pretty neat, but..... (1)

CountBrass (590228) | about 12 years ago | (#3825941)

>>HAHA, the Mac will eventually dominate the planet as planned! I don't think so. Lets face it, Geeks prefer Linux, and end users prefer the os they use at work every day: Windows. Subjective "Cool" and "best" have no chance.

Re:Pretty neat, but..... (2)

foniksonik (573572) | about 12 years ago | (#3826005)

Actually a lot of the 'geeks' I know are 'switching' to Apple hardware, specifically because they can run YDL and OS X and Microsoft Office/Virtual PC.

If you can run your all important (no sarcasm intended) Linux distro on it then who needs Windows (gameplay) especially when more and more games are being ported to OS X within a month or two of Windows and at the same time as Linux (NWN), which is likely to shrink to a month or less over the next year.

The only thing missing is a more mainstream distro of Linux or the merging of say Redhat with YDL for big business.

Add to this economies of scale with more people buying Apple hardware == Apple hardware gets cheaper, and you have a winning combination (unless Apple gets too greedy).

Re:Pretty neat, but..... (2)

thales (32660) | about 12 years ago | (#3826054)

"the Mac will eventually dominate the planet as planned!"
So we switch from having Microsoft dominating the software to having Apple dominating the software AND the hardware? Sounds like a step backwards to me. Sorry I have no intrest in placing Steve Jobs in a stronger postion than Bill Gates is in today.

Who cares? (2, Interesting)

ducasi (106725) | about 12 years ago | (#3825836)

How much would one of these machines cost to put together and how does it compare to the current generation of Macs?

There's not many Macs still using the G3, but the G3 iMac is very cheap and doesn't require any hacks to get Mac OS and Mac OS X to run!

I think it's cool that this is happening - it's always been clear to me that with Darwin being open it will only be a matter of time before Mac OS X is running on non-Apple hardware - but I don't think Steve Jobs will be shaking in his boots just yet.

This isn't quite "running MacOS" (4, Informative)

NeoOokami (528323) | about 12 years ago | (#3825841)

MacOnLinux basically loads OS 9 in a simulator. And that's what he got working, not OS 9 itself. Yes he's able to use most (non hardware specific) MacOS apps, but he did NOT get MacOS to boot, and without cracking Apple's bios, that's not gonna happen. He provided proper hardware and then made a small emulation field, it doesn't look like he accomplished anything new there at all.

Re:This isn't quite "running MacOS" (1)

norwoodites (226775) | about 12 years ago | (#3825887)

Since NewWorld Mac's (iMac and newer), the Macs have actually been CHRP machines.

Re:This isn't quite "running MacOS" (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3826009)

>cracking Apple's bios

Oh for fuck's sake. the mac's firmware isn't fucking encrypted you retard. it's in software for all the newworld macs. or you could use romgrabber for older ones.

Guys (2, Insightful)

Sleeper (7713) | about 12 years ago | (#3825868)

I have huge respect for Amiga. But I have to tell that I've been hearing about Amiga comming back many times in the past five or so years (including here). And I have yet to see this actually happenning.

Re:Guys (3, Funny)

Kamel Jockey (409856) | about 12 years ago | (#3826063)

And I have yet to see this actually happenning.

It just needs to be predicted on The Simpsons! Remember the episode in which Bart sold his soul to Milhouse, who then sold it to Comic Book Guy in exchange for Alf pogs? That was a few years back, and of course Milhouse told Bart (about Alf) "He's coming back, you know!" And now he is back! So write to Fox, et al. and have them feature this, we'll have a tangible product in no time!

Who's paying for all this? (1, Troll)

autopr0n (534291) | about 12 years ago | (#3825869)

Seriously, who owns Amega now? I know Gateway owned them for a while, but do they still? Or is this being done by another company who owns the brand. I remember all the Amega hype a few years ago (was it that long?) but what happened in the interim?

Re:Who's paying for all this? (1)

Ziviyr (95582) | about 12 years ago | (#3825954)

I own an Amiga. Not a new system though. Constant freezing introduced with OS3.5 pissed me off to the degree that I'm more or less boycotting them now.

I think Gateway still has alot of the patents and they're licensed out to whoever is behind the Amiga.

Amiga (-1)

xdfgf (460453) | about 12 years ago | (#3825871)

Amigas are for people who think Apple is too popular.

Misleading Headline (2, Insightful)

Snoopy77 (229731) | about 12 years ago | (#3825880)

Talk about a sensational headline. Yes it is Amiga hardware, and yes an _old_ version of Mac OS runs on it but the major part is the fact that he is running Yellow Dog linux on his box and using MOL to create a sort of Mac OS virtual machine.

Yes it is a neat breakthrough but let's not act like he split the atom.

fast? (1)

jest3r (458429) | about 12 years ago | (#3825882)

my G3400MHZ runs OSX pretty slowly .. i wouldn't consider these mobos 'fast' anymore ..

Re:fast? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825930)

OS X is pretty resource intensive. And the Amiga OS seems to have a reputation for being very fast and responsive, considering the hardware it runs (or ran) on. While these mobos don't have the raw power of an Athlon or Sparc or whatever, they should work out very well for all three of the remaining Amiga users. ;)

Bad Yahoo. Bad! (1)

hazyshadeofwinter (529262) | about 12 years ago | (#3825902)

> Oops...
> Your browser is not accepting our cookies. To view this page,
> please set your browser preferences to accept cookies (code 0).
> Try Again

Surely in this day and age, that's unacceptable. I'll give ya cookies if and only if you give me a *good* reason to turn 'em on. Yeesh.

That aside, I'm glad to see the Amiga's still alive & kicking. Never had one (we went from c128 to PC clone) but I always wanted one...

Silly thing to make up ... (1)

B3ryllium (571199) | about 12 years ago | (#3825903)

Yeah, like the 25 hour day. What kind of crazy loon would make that up? ;-)

Screenshots of Debian running on AmigaOne (3, Informative)

Mike Bouma (85252) | about 12 years ago | (#3825912)

Here [samfundet.no] you can see some screenshots of Debian, Mozilla 1.0 and OpenOffice 1.0 running on the AmigaOne. If you would like to support the AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 then you should read Bill McEwen latest exec update [amiga.com] .

Re:Screenshots of Debian running on AmigaOne (2)

ObviousGuy (578567) | about 12 years ago | (#3825934)

That's great and all (notice that timothy posted your link in the story writeup), but what about pictures of the hardware? Or of an actual amiga OS running something that we'd not normally see in our "oh so lacking" mainstream OSes.

Sometimes I think that the Amigo is an absurd liberal myth.

Re:Screenshots of Debian running on AmigaOne (1)

Mike Bouma (85252) | about 12 years ago | (#3825984)

> but what about pictures of the hardware?

You can find some pictures of the actual AmigaOneG3-SE hardware here [eyetech.co.uk] . An upgrade option [eyetech.co.uk] to AmigaOne-XE board will be avaiable through AmigaOne dealers [eyetech.co.uk] .

The first boards come with modem, AC97 sound, modem (via an AMR riser card), 10/100 ethernet, soldered 600 Mhz G3 (XE version will have a socket) and AmigaOS4.

Some pictures of an earlier prototype running TurboLinux can be found here [hesbynett.no] .

Re:Screenshots of Debian running on AmigaOne (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3826042)

hardware pictures are avaiable here [lycos.fr]
(pictures of a Amiga One board in an expensive Naya atx case)

Some more hardware pics on a dutch page [amigascene.nl] and finally some screenshots of os4 [hyperion-software.com]
and Hd toolbox [amiga.com]

/Weasel

Re:Screenshots of Debian running on AmigaOne (3, Informative)

Mike Bouma (85252) | about 12 years ago | (#3826086)

A special note to the people viewing the screenshots. These early AmigaOS4 screenshots are only meant to demonstrate some features of the OS. These are not meant to demonstrate the final look of AmigaOS4. Things like the new fonts system, new GUI art by Matt Chaput and loads of other stuff aren't being shown in those screenshots yet.

The basic idea behind the GUI screenshots is to demonstrate that almost everything of the GUI can be modified according to the taste of the user. The HD Prep Util is mainly meant to show its new features.

BTW a PPC native version of the Amiga browser IBrowse should come with AmigaOS4. And a new PPC native version of MUI should become available as well.

Re:Screenshots of Debian running on AmigaOne (1)

ObviousGuy (578567) | about 12 years ago | (#3826092)

That Dutch case is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for [slashdot.org] in a case (though the plexiglass one isn't anything to shake a stick at). Where can I get it?

penis (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825924)

penis!

Not for long... (1, Redundant)

OneFix (18661) | about 12 years ago | (#3825940)

Don't get me wrong, this is kinda kewl and all, and assuming this isn't a fake (dunno why it would be) ... Why would anyone want to buy an AmigaOne just to run MacOS???

Now, I realize that it is just another OS that will run on the hardware, but Apple has a much larger selection of hardware and then again, there is obviously going to be no support from either Amiga, Inc. or Apple. Both are proprietary hardware (how ever similar they may be) and will require support for things like new firmware, hardware, etc.

I'm sure you can expect both companies to attempt to make this next to impossible (Amiga, Inc. wants to sell their OS as much as Apple wants to sell their hardware) ...

So, does it really matter that this works for now? This is likely to become something like the PS2 Linux Distro...nice, but not very widely used...

Re:Not for long... (2, Informative)

Mike Bouma (85252) | about 12 years ago | (#3826002)

Most AmigaOne costumers/developers are mainly interested in AmigaOS4, for which a large development group is working full-time to ensure everything is as polished as possible when upon general consumer release.

By having MacOS9 and several other OSes including Linux running on the AmigaOne now it offers people a much more wider choice of applications. It will take time to port applications like Mozilla or OpenOffice to AmigaOS4. By having Linux running on the AmigaOne now, makes the wait alot easier.

Adding some facts (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825944)

To begin with, the name Amiga was bought by Amino in the begining of year 2000, so no, Gateway don't own Amiga longer. I think Gateway owns the patents thought.

The new AmigaOS4 is a port of the old ones for PPC, and porting is if I have got everything right mostly made by Hyperion(http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/ [hyperion-e...inment.com] ).

The first AmigaOnes will have a G3@600MHz, but will probably ship with G4s later.

Bplan (http://www.b-plan.gmbh.de/ [b-plan.gmbh.de] ) makes their own Pegasos PPC motherboard which might at some stage run AmigaOS but to begin with with run Linux or MorphOS (http://www.morphos.de/ [morphos.de] ). The Pegasos is a dual PPC motherboard and can use both G3 and G4.

I always liked Amiga, I still do, and I will probably always do. But I really think it's to late and to slow progress, but who knows. One day...

// Hagge, IRCnet

Re:Adding some facts (1)

Mike Bouma (85252) | about 12 years ago | (#3826045)

Yes, but Amiga Inc does not only own the names but also AmigaOS and related Amiga products. The includes licenses for usage of all Amiga patents and costed them (Amiga Inc employees under Gateway) around 5 million USD.

Hyperion is leading the AmigaOS4 project and they have several coders working full-time on the project.

If you would like to see what the PEGASOS is like them here's an interesting demonstration movie [aminet.net] showing the hardware running AmigaOS3.x on top of MorphOS.

AmigaOne isn't a particular machine, it's a SPEC!! (3, Informative)

cgadd (65348) | about 12 years ago | (#3825959)

From the amiga website(www.amiga.com),

"We completed the AmigaOne specification three months ago, and dubbed it the "Zico". It is a specification and not a product because Amiga is a software company, not a hardware manufacturer. The ability of the Amiga DE to host itself on multiple hardware and operating system platforms frees us from hardware dependency and gives our partners and our customers the freedom to chose the hardware that best suits their needs and tastes."

Re:AmigaOne isn't a particular machine, it's a SPE (1, Funny)

ObviousGuy (578567) | about 12 years ago | (#3825980)

So Yellow Dog Linux running on an AmigoOne running an emulation of MacOS 9 is really an emulator running on an emulator running on an emulator?

The speed must be astounding.

Re:AmigaOne isn't a particular machine, it's a SPE (1)

cgadd (65348) | about 12 years ago | (#3825983)

errr, actually, the spec listed at Amiga.com isn't very up-to-date.

Here's a manufacturer that is actually shipping boxes that meet the AmigaOne spec:

http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/

A machine from Eyetech, specs from Amiga. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3825986)

From the begining that was true, but that text is really old.

Eyetech (http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/ [eyetech.co.uk] ) makes the AmigaONE motherboard, not Amiga Inc.

I don't think the AmigaONE from Eyetech actually follows those old specs longer.
// Hagge

Isn't the Amiga One more of a mac clone now? (4, Informative)

matthew.thompson (44814) | about 12 years ago | (#3825971)

I thought that the new Amiga hardware had been made CHRP compliant and that the development team had been looking to the Mac for inspiration.

If I'm right then this story is no more than "Man runs an application of Yellow Dog Linux" - it's really no more exciting than me getting YDL running on my iBook.

MOL developers themselves have been striving for Mac OS X support anyway - it's not as if they've started doing this just becausee the Amiga One hardware can run it.

Also the 600Mhz G3 Amiga One board from a European vendor is 600(euros) with processor, no case, memory, video, sound, monitor, mouse, keyboard.

A 600Mhz G3 iMac - the closest system - is around 1000. So Amiga One hardware is hardly cheap. I can pick a higher spec Intel/AMD motherboard and processor combo up for half thay price.

Ancient history (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 12 years ago | (#3826058)

Mike Bouma piped up with a link to a page featuring the same hardware, in this case running Debian, OpenOffice.org and Mozilla.

Hard to know what's more archaic...Amiga, or Debian.

Non-Apple "Macs" and other thoughts... (4, Informative)

i1984 (530580) | about 12 years ago | (#3826071)

I couldn't view the site since my browser rejects Yahoo's cookies.

So without having read the article, I'll comment as best I can...

The first thing that comes to mind is that this is not the first time an Apple unauthorized computer has natively run the Mac OS. I can think of a few other examples.

In the early days of the Macintosh there were machines with Apple boards repackaged in to different form factors, but this was still arguably Apple hardware.

Later, Outbound notebook computers came out that used their own board designs, but were based off scavenged Apple ROMs -- usually from compact Macs. They were nice machines in their day: they had trackbars (which are hard to explain unless you've actually seen one), fast processors, and good B/W screens. Of course, these were still sort of using Apple parts thanks to the ROMs.

Around the time of Outbound's demise (BTW, Outbound's death boiled down to being priced out of the market by Apple's PowerBook line), an impressive effort was completed to reverse engineer the Mac's ROM from published APIs. The machine this ROM landed in was a Mac/PC hybrid that was theoretically untouchable by Apple's legal department. I don't know what ever happened to this thing, but the fact that it wouldn't run Pagemaker could well have doomed it -- even without help from Apple's lawyers!

After that machine faded and vanished in to nothing, Apple licensed cloning. Around the same time we started seeing demos of the PReP and CHRP boards. These could have run the Mac OS, along with several other operating systems, but to my knowledge no Mac compatible boxes were ever released (If someone else knows of some, please post!).

Now Apple's machines use open firmware in place of big ROMs, so any attempt to get the Mac OS running on other hardware might be simpler, but the OF could still be a tricky river for an intrepid cloner to navigate. I don't know much about OF myself, nor Apple's implementation and use of it on their machines, but if you would like to speculate on this subject please do!

In regards to the motherboard in question, there are a few things to consider:

a) To the extent the cost of equipment is dependent upon volume, this may not be a high enough volume product to make it as a "mass market" board.

b) The advance here might be that you can run PowerPC Mac OS apps on non-Apple hardware, which (as Slashdot story pointed out) could be a convenient extra feature for a few users of this board. It is of course fairly common to emulate a 68K Mac. Aqua and the rest of OS X would be bigger advance, but that doesn't sound like an advance that has happened yet...

c) To get OS X running, you may still have a decidedly different task (remember I didn't read the article; see above).

d) Unless you use ROMs, etc., that were illegally copied, Apple Legal probably doesn't have much to say against this. They may be annoyed, but probably not scared...up until OS X and Aqua will run on it.

e) This isn't a mass market solution for running OS 9: You still need to get one of these machines, get Linux up and running, get a Mac ROM, install the compatibility environment, and only then do you get to use OS 9. That's a pretty geeky sequence, but the geeks don't seem to be the ones who want to run OS 9! Of course, once Aqua hits this hardware...

f) It sounds like this is a G3 board (note: I still haven't read the article). This will limit its appeal; a lot of folks might be looking for a G4 based machine so this might not be the ideal option for them. Of course, the G3 and G4 perform comparably per MHz in non-Altivec operations. OS X, however, on G3 machines seems rather pokey.

In short, this is pretty cool but the advance to date doesn't by itself threaten Apple; loss of control of hardware that could run OS X's UI would threaten Apple. Also don't forget that there are Mac emulators for PCs and Apple hasn't successfully come down on them. And yes, I know that's different, they're only 68K emulators, and they can be slow, etc., but I still think this doesn't yet threaten Apple. For the time being it's simply another neat thing you can do with a neat 3rd party niche board. I'll keep an eye on developments.

Finally, I would like to see commodity G4 based boards that could be coaxed to run OS X. That would be killer. Doubtless Apple would agree...

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