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Perl 6 Synopsis 5

timothy posted more than 12 years ago | from the making-the-impossible-accessable dept.

Perl 203

XaXXon writes: "perl.com has Synopsis 5 for Perl 6 up. It's a brief overview of all the changes made in Larry Wall's Apocalypse 5. Lots of stuff about the new regex syntax. I must admit, however, that I'm getting tired of reading about perl 6 -- I want to start using it." We posted Larry Wall's 5th Apocalypse in May.

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First Post for the AC's (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837114)

BTW PERL sucks

i COMMEND you! (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837127)

Keep those clit faggots at bay, brother!

you're HOMOSEKULLE (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837213)

As Hollywood prepares to release the new film, "Scooby Doo," we think it's important for Christians to understand some of the hidden messages in the cartoon series that Landover Baptist Creation Scientists and Youth Directors have spent the last 30 years of their lives uncovering. It goes without saying that most Christians already know that the term, "Scooby Doo," was adopted by the homosexual community in the late 1970's. "Scooby Doo" is Sodomite slang for "feces roll." There is no easy way of saying this, but a "feces roll" is when a group of naked homosexual "men" get together in a public park, lay out a large plastic mat, poop all over it, and roll around in it until they have orgasms or are busted by the police. Some homosexuals save their feces in plastic bags and keep them in the refrigerator for weeks to prepare for such an event.

One doesn't have to look too far to see why the homosexual community was so quick in adopting "Scooby Doo." The cartoon is chock full of decadence. It really doesn't take a theologian to see that each character in the cartoon series represents a perverse member of society. There is "Shaggy," a skinny junkie who is always sleepy, hungry, and paranoid. If you look closely enough, you can actually see the needle marks on his arms where he would inject a liquified form of "scooby snacks" which were really nothing more than a mixture of cocaine and heroin. Shaggy would even feed the dog (which is G-o-d spelled backwards and an occult way of referring to Satan) these cocktails as well. At times, Shaggy would be so high, he would even think the dog was talking to him.

Another character in the series, Thelma, the little bull-dyke, represents the feminist movement. Hollywood makes everyone's job easier here because they never try to hide the fact that feminists are nothing more than ugly-looking women with glasses who are always reading books and bossing people around. Our lone Christian mole in Hollywood tells us that executives were even considering talk show host and human hippo, Rosie O'Donnell, for the role of Thelma.

In the character of Fred, we are subjected to a cartoon depiction of the typical homosexual male. His choice in clothing alone is enough to raise the eyebrows of any concerned Christian parent. Further evidence exists in his lack of interest in the character of Daphney, a female prostitute along for the ride who never has anything signficant to offer the group other than a harlot's smile and, sadly, unclothed cartoon legs that Landover Baptist Youth Director, Richard N. Moff, reports, "cause arousal in young boys even before they reach puberty."

The characters of "Scooby Doo" travel in a van (an enclosed vehichle suggesting deviant activity occuring within) from town to town looking for ghosts and witches and consulting with people who are familair with spirits. It's always been a carefully packaged television program that introduces innocent young children to the occult. We could go on about countless Christian horror stories where grown adults fall prostate on the altar of Jesus and plead His precious blood over addictions to homosexuality, witchcraft, beastiality, drugs, prostitution, cartoon pornography, and liberalism that can all be traced back to being seduced by the Scooby Doo cartoon series as a child, but entire books could be written on the subject.

We place this message of Christian love and experience here only because we know that Hollywood is preparing to unleash this terror from Hell on an already suffering Christian Nation. We urge you to protest vocally, and protest in silence by putting the $7 you would have paid to see the film, "Scooby Doo," into the offering plate at your local Bible-believing Baptist Church on Sunday morning. Thank you.

Re:you're HOMOSEKULLE (0, Offtopic)

Mark Fenelli (590834) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837686)

LOL

FREE ISRAEL! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837193)

Fuck the Palestinian war criminals! Muslim assholes fuck off and die!

Spyware on Slashdot MUST BE STOPPED (-1, Troll)

JismTroll (588456) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837332)

I am a frequent visitor to slashdot and also an avid supporter of anonymous free speech online. However I noticed something VERY ODD regarding slashdot. I use ad-aware on my Windows XP system, and it found the double click cookie. Here is a summery of the doubleclick SPYWARE cookie from pest patrol:
===
A spyware cookie. Cookie is used to track unique visitors to many different sites, and their "preferences."
Online ad company DoubleClick used Web bugs that could communicate with cookies from its Web site. The cookies then revealed past online behavior, even home addresses, IP addresses, and phone numbers to the bugs, and the bugs sent that information straight back to DoubleClick.
A company can also use the bugs to tie cookie histories to personal identifying information, such as your phone number and address. In fact, a California woman sued DoubleClick for just that behavior. The company bought another firm, Abacus Direct, which holds detailed consumer profiles on more than 90 percent of U.S. households. DoubleClick cross-referenced its spyware results with that database to compile surprisingly personal profiles
===

As one can see double click is a DANGEROUS piece of spyware, which totally removes privacy and hijacks ones computer and all it's information. After I removed the doubleclick TROJAN from my otherwise secure and updated winXP pc I went to slashdot and noticed I WAS LOGGED OUT. Slashdot also uses SECRET 1 pixel gifs in it's advertising system.

The only answer is that slashdot is WORKING WITH DOUBLECLICK's spyware software and selling millions of personal profiles of its users to fund it's OTHERWISE UNPROFITABLE business. I find this to be detestable and immoral behavior especially for a site that claims it supports peoples RIGHTS TO PRIVACY. My only course of action is to use other linux resource sites and to make sure slashdot.org is BLACKLISTED as a spyware-installing site. It is a sad, sad day when you cannot visit a freedom-loving site without having your computer HIJACKED.

show your true colors and respond to this journal showing that you support the FIGHT to end slashdot spyware!

Migor is very upset (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837116)

Migor is VERY angry. Migor has identified a creature worse then the common household troll.

Migor calles them retarded mods because they are retarded in their very own brain. They are stupid and their brains should be harvested for suppliments to kitty litter. They mod down insightful and informitive comments because they don't understand them, or worse, are too stupid to reconize the humor.

Migor is here to help. Migor will keep posting to waste those mod's points so real mods can mod up the good comments.

Migor will eat your soul [slashdot.org]

Re:Migor is very upset (-1)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837174)

Any relation to Gene Ray?

Does this mean... (2, Funny)

geogeek6_7 (566395) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837120)

... I'll finally be able to make sense of my perl code after I write it?

~geogeek

Re:Does this mean... (5, Funny)

Fjord (99230) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837167)

No. Perl is a write-only language. You aren't supposed to be able to read it ;)

Re:Does this mean... (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837248)

You're sexual preference is man-only.

Re:Does this mean... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837313)

>> You're sexual preference is man-only.

And you, sir, have the grammatical sense of a toddler. As you may know, "You're" is a contraction for "You are". Therefore, you just said quite literally, "You are sexual preference is man-only". I can only suspect you are another disgrace to our troll community, an illiterate troll. How can we fight back against Slashdot's communist moderation when all you can do is embarass us with your horrible English?

Thanks for the attempted troll, but you are truly a disgrace to us.
~The English Troll

Re:Does this mean... (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837324)

LOL...um no shit...and my troll worked cuz it got you to reply. fool. understand what a troll is b4 you try and call me a moron

and another thing (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837338)

dont call yourself a troll and dont say "our troll community" because you AC's are disgrace enough. wont login cuz YOU'RE worried about karma. BAH! YHBT HAND kthx

YUO = GAY (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837358)

and another thing, STFU FAGG0AT!

Just a reminder... (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837408)

YOU ARE GAY!

Re:Just a reminder... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837424)

k0osh, You seem to not understand the binding force between all of the brethren of Slashdot trolling! It's not the karma, it's not the message; it's the obscure look at overcomes one, as they glance through serious posts and out of the blue, see an ASCII-art glorified pair of separated ass cheeks staring at them from the deep heart of the goatse man (among other deep things), or the look on anothers face as they click on a link in a supposed serious article to find the true image of goatse.

Have you, k0osh, forgotten what it means to troll? Have you stopped fighting for our troll liberty? Or were you always just a twirp who signed on to get his teenage rage out by saying "you are gay" in even a a sort of "friendly fire"?

Please, rejoin us and help us fight for troll liberty and rights!

Re:Just a reminder... (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837436)

y not just login and be someone...be known for your efforts...it doesnt carry the same message if you're an AC

Re:Just a reminder... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837439)

That is true; but tell me this, k0osh. Why should we as trolls give moderators the even slight pleasure of moderating us down and knowing they can silence us moreso?

Death to user moderation.

Re:Just a reminder... (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837454)

i proudly post at -1 so i know not of what you speak. sir.

Re:YUO = GAY (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837410)

Thanks for defending me, my fellow troll brother. Do you not agree that your parent poster is, indeed, a flaming homosexual?

Re:YUO = GAY (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837420)

JEFF K teched me hwotew be ah leet hax0r. sto stfu beefor eye haxckter yewer intarweb wiht lunix anad hax0r.exe !!!!!!!1111

Re:YUO = GAY (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837433)

Take your best shot. My IP address is 207.229.152.43. I challenge you to do your best.

~The English Troll.
You are a waste of flesh, "k0osh". Not even a true troll, just a new-age twirp who signed onto the troll draft to get his teenage rage out on even his own fellow trolls with such stupid messages as "you are gay". Please, quit with the friendly fire.

p.s: 207.229.152.43. I await you.

Re:Does this mean... (1)

Xoro (201854) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837465)

I may be misremembering this, but my favorite new tool for perl obfuscation has got to be user-defined operators...in Unicode!

"Well of course 'object1 [seated scribe] object2' means copy. It's a scribe..."

Re:Does this mean... (1)

jmb-d (322230) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837651)

Perl is a write-only language. You aren't supposed to be able to read it

Ever seen APL [umich.edu] ?

Perl Sucks (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837130)

php is better.

Re:Perl Sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837165)

you're on glue. php is useless as a general purpose language, even as a glue language.

or are you one of those wannabes who think web scripting is what coding is about?

Re:Perl Sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837233)

You're a moron. You couldn't "code" your way out of a paper bag.

Go upstairs. Your mom is calling you.

PHP better than Perl (3, Interesting)

totallygeek (263191) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837179)

php is better.

Perl is not just for web programming! I doubt that web programming is mostly what people use perl for. Even the name perl suggests its strength is a report-generator or text parser (practical extraction and reporting language).

I use perl for web and for just general-purpose Unix programming. I still use c for some larger coding projects, but am more and more finding myself coding with perl. And, I never use shell scripts anymore -- well, unless I am on an older Unix box.

Perl rocks. PHP rocks. C rocks. Pascal rocks. Bash rocks. One just isn't any better than any other, if the one you are using gets you the desired results (speed, speed of coding, ease of use, correct answers to problems, etc.).

Re:PHP better than Perl (2)

darkonc (47285) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837235)

Perl rocks. PHP rocks. C rocks. Pascal rocks. Bash rocks. One just isn't any better than any other.....

Until you got to the Pascal rocks part, I was right with you. Pascal was a teaching language with arbitrary restrictions that should have never made it out of the classroom. If you want a nice language along that line, try ALGOL/68.

Re:PHP better than Perl (1)

bad-badtz-maru (119524) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837257)


Pascal, as extended in Delphi and Kylix, rocks...

maru

Re:PHP better than Perl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837278)


Pascal does rock for what it was designed for -- teaching.

Having seen the results of teaching first year students Java as compared to when they were taught Pascal, I can say with certainty that pascal rocks.

Re:PHP better than Perl (2)

zmooc (33175) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837288)

Which restrictions do you mean?

Re:PHP better than Perl (2)

darkonc (47285) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837376)

It's been a very long time since I've used pascal (for obvious reasons, given my last post). The two obvious restrictions that come to mind are the inability to allocate variable sized arrays and an I/O system that's rather grotty.
being forced to use begin and end instead of brackets didn't help me much either.

You can use extensions, but then you lose the portability. At that point, what's the real purpose of using a high-level language? Pascal is fine for teaching, but it's not designed as a production language, and it shouldn't generally be used as one.

Re:PHP better than Perl (2)

totallygeek (263191) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837564)

Until you got to the Pascal rocks part, I was right with you.

At work, we still have to use RPG. So, RPG rocks for its purposes on that platform.

In some situations, I have many Pascal tools that I must use, so Pascal rocks. The equivalent c code is extremely hard to implement.

I still use Pick in some situations. I still use Assembly in others. To say one language is better than another in all instances cannot be justified. That is all I was saying.

All languages are NOT equally good (2)

Jay Carlson (28733) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837584)

Perl rocks. PHP rocks. C rocks. Pascal rocks. Bash rocks. One just isn't any better than any other, if the one you are using gets you the desired results (speed, speed of coding, ease of use, correct answers to problems, etc.).

What a wussy response. So what you're saying is that those languages are all good, except when they're not.

I love Intercal because it destroys all the "they're all very nice" language relativity arguments. Here's a language that's specifically designed to be as annoying as possible. I dare you to advocate Intercal in the same way you did above.

Both the PHP language and its implementation have significant problems. Regular users of PHP already have their own list of language design annoyances ("it has to be a global??") and you can see some of the implementation problems here [bagley.org] . You will note PHP's implementation getting beaten by Tcl, gawk, xemacs, and njs. :-(

PHP would have been better off if the implementors had used an existing language like Lua [lua.org] (80k of x86 code for standalone interpreter+core libraries!) and focused on the embedding features unique to the application area.

Re:Perl Sucks (0)

blinov2000 (590842) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837280)

yes, imho php is better but what can I do if my prorgammers (here [rockefeller.ru] ) used perl? if I want to use only php now must I rewrite perl modules or not?

Re:Perl Sucks (1)

sputti (545575) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837356)

php may be better for web based solutions, but perl can be used for everything you can think of, for example GUI apps. and as usual its a matter of taste. use what you like to use. perl rocks! :)

No, it is not a matter of taste what you use. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837404)

Only idiots believe that the design of programming languages and other tools, and the resulting choices among these tools, are matters of taste.
Taste is a deciding factor only when everything else is equal, which it almost never is. The intelligent look at the inherent technical merits of a tool, and of course other considerations, such as quality and availability of implementations targetting a given set of platforms.

Perl is, technically, a crap of a language, and everyone knows it. This is not a statement of taste, like someone ``dissing'' your favorite band.

Fight Slashdot Spyware (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837142)

I am a frequent visitor to slashdot and also an avid supporter of anonymous free speech online. However I noticed something VERY ODD regarding slashdot. I use ad-aware on my Windows XP system, and it found the double click cookie. Here is a summery of the doubleclick SPYWARE cookie from pest patrol:
===
A spyware cookie. Cookie is used to track unique visitors to many different sites, and their "preferences."
Online ad company DoubleClick used Web bugs that could communicate with cookies from its Web site. The cookies then revealed past online behavior, even home addresses, IP addresses, and phone numbers to the bugs, and the bugs sent that information straight back to DoubleClick.
A company can also use the bugs to tie cookie histories to personal identifying information, such as your phone number and address. In fact, a California woman sued DoubleClick for just that behavior. The company bought another firm, Abacus Direct, which holds detailed consumer profiles on more than 90 percent of U.S. households. DoubleClick cross-referenced its spyware results with that database to compile surprisingly personal profiles
===

As one can see double click is a DANGEROUS piece of spyware, which totally removes privacy and hijacks ones computer and all it's information. After I removed the doubleclick TROJAN from my otherwise secure and updated winXP pc I went to slashdot and noticed I WAS LOGGED OUT. Slashdot also uses SECRET 1 pixel gifs in it's advertising system.

The only answer is that slashdot is WORKING WITH DOUBLECLICK's spyware software and selling millions of personal profiles of its users to fund it's OTHERWISE UNPROFITABLE business. I find this to be detestable and immoral behavior especially for a site that claims it supports peoples RIGHTS TO PRIVACY. My only course of action is to use other linux resource sites and to make sure slashdot.org is BLACKLISTED as a spyware-installing site. It is a sad, sad day when you cannot visit a freedom-loving site without having your computer HIJACKED.

show your true colors and respond to this journal showing that you support the FIGHT to end slashdot spyware!

Perl 5 was nice (0, Flamebait)

ObviousGuy (578567) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837150)

Perl 6 seems to be a whole new camel. This one's definitely uglier and has two humps.

The Perl community seems to have become something of an inbred group where the only ideas come from people who have been using Perl exclusively for years. While this may be fine for a while, the end result is a jumble of personal preferences and half-baked ideas.

Re:Perl 5 was nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837161)

either that, or you are lacking a clue. Much of the perl6 discussion is about cleaning up the jumble.

hth. hand.

Re:Perl 5 was nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837163)

Three character operators? No, the jumble is being added to, not taken away.

Re:Perl 5 was nice (4, Insightful)

selectspec (74651) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837331)

I don't pretend to know anything about Perl 6, and hopefully they are cleaning up Perl. However, I agree with your assessment of Perl 5: a thousand ways to do the same thing each using their own exclusive exotic ascii character combinations.

One has to wonder about the relative success of Java, given its horrific performance and obscene installation complexity. However, ultimately Java's success comes down to the lack of choices in the language syntax and a strong networking library.

Of course Java syntax is a simplification of C++, while Perl's roots are in shell scripts.

I wish there was a shell with the simple grace of C, the libraries and idiot proof installing packages of Perl, and the portability of bash.

Re:Perl 5 was nice (1)

Second_Derivative (257815) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837475)

I wish there was a shell with the simple grace of C, the libraries and idiot proof installing packages of Perl, and the portability of bash.

Would you like fries with that?

Re:Perl 5 was nice (1)

Q Who (588741) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837614)

Damn, funny shit, I wish I had the mod points. :-))))

Re:Perl 5 was nice (2)

g4dget (579145) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837664)

One has to wonder about the relative success of Java, given its horrific performance and obscene installation complexity.

Java performance is excellent--very close to C and C++. What gives Java a reputation for being slow is that it takes a long time to start up.

Java is also one of the easiest systems to install: all you need to do is untar the archive somewhere, or run the installer (on Windows). Perhaps what you mean is that the Java runtime is big--but it isn't really if you compare it to other runtimes.

However, ultimately Java's success comes down to the lack of choices in the language syntax and a strong networking library

Initially, Java succeeded because it was simple and promised that people could deliver software as applets. Today, Java is widely used because it is well-supported, runs fast, has a huge library, and because it beats the alternatives for server applications.

I wish there was a shell with the simple grace of C, the libraries and idiot proof installing packages of Perl, and the portability of bash.

Seeing how given you are to snap judgements, I doubt you would recognize such a shell if it bit you in the behind.

Re:Perl 5 was nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837701)

Find me links for the following:

Benchmarks of a free VM where Java performs equally on memory and speed to a myriad of equal C and C++ programs. Fine-grained analysis of things like exception handling performance, class instantion overhead, message dispatch overhead, as well as implementations of algorithms that are functionallty equivalent given paradigm differences.

The only place where Java is popular is in the backend. Probably because a lot of these people were using Perl or unscalable C for software development, without utilizing any standard third-party libraries for simplifying development.Seeing as I've consulted for people that have moved to Java that had a policy not to use pointers in C (as they prefer arrays in a lot of industry that manages to make vast quantieis of money) and never used any third-party libraries for development. Some even would have several implementations of flat-file "databases" running over their colocated servers.

If this sort of retardation wants to adopt Java, all the power to them. Hell, I'd almost suggest they use Smalltalk or VisualBASIC or a hammer to cave in their hollow skulls.

Kill your Karma for Migor (-1, Offtopic)

interstellar_donkey (200782) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837162)

Migor is angry. Migor has identified a creature worse then the common household troll.

Migor calles them retarded mods. They are evil. They mod down insightful and informitive comments because they don't understand them, or worse, are too stupid to reconize the humor.

Migor is here to help. Migor will keep posting to waste those mod's points so real mods can mod up the good comments.

Re:Kill your Karma for Migor (-1)

jamiemccarthy on (561405) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837208)

I have unlimited mod points to mod you down with. In the end, you lose. Have fun being bitchslapped. You'll now post at -1.

Re:Kill your Karma for Migor (-1)

k0osh.CEOofCLIT (582286) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837237)

uh i dont think he is too worried. actually he did that so that he could laff at people like you that think they have some kinda authority. you're either 11 yrs old or a 35 yr old professional neverwinter nights player. either way you are the pinnacle of nerdum

Re:Kill your Karma for Migor (-1, Offtopic)

Migor (588180) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837250)

You have offended Migor. Migor is now very, very, very angry. Migor will find you. Migor will rip out your eyeballs and he then shall show them to you as you scream in pain with an invisible tounge which Migor will also remove.

Then Migor will remove your soul. He will put it into the frying pan which is heated by magical gas in the kitchen of Migor's mighty spaceship.

Migor shall dine on your soul and feed the fatty grease left in the pan to his favorate pet who is known as Reptar.

Then Migor will put Reptar out into the yard for the night, as fatty soul grease gives Reptar the trotts.

And then Migor shall sleep with the knowledge that he has taught you, who is wrong, a lesson.

Re:Kill your Karma for Migor (-1, Troll)

REPTAR!!! RARRR!!! (588232) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837276)

mmm...

Reptar LOVE soul grease.

CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP

Delicious!!!

Thankyou Migor

Are you on the dope, son? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837330)

If ya are I'd like some to try.

Re:Kill your Karma for Migor (-1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837346)

I hear that it doesn't take Kryptonite to get Migor on his knees in a men's bathroom!

So why don't you? (3, Informative)

JoshuaDFranklin (147726) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837171)

I must admit, however, that I'm getting tired of reading about perl 6 -- I want to start using it.

Well, go right ahead. From the Parrot VM, the Perl6 engine, page [parrotcode.org] :

Can I use Parrot today?

Well, almost. :^) Parrot is in the early phases of its implementation. The primary way to use Parrot is to write Parrot assembly code, described in PDD6.

Use Perl6--Write some Parrot assembly, and help out!

Re:So why don't you? (1)

freshmkr (132808) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837533)

But parrot isn't Perl 6. Don't believe me? Just scroll up [parrotcode.org] :
Is Parrot the same as Perl 6?

No. Parrot is an implementation that is expected to be used to execute Perl6 programs.

Parrot is likely to be the runtime for Perl 6, but it isn't the language. Conceivably many runtimes could be written for Perl 6, all different. Saying writing Parrot code is the same as writing Perl 6 code is like saying writing x86 assembly is the same as writing Visual Basic.

--Tom

Perl 6 Synopsis 5, 5th Apocalypse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837180)

Looks like a reference in some holy book.

Re:Perl 6 Synopsis 5, 5th Apocalypse (3, Funny)

flonker (526111) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837206)

"And they wandered the desert for forty years, until they found the llama, and the llama led them to the camel of Wall." Perl 6:Synopsis 5,5th Apolcalypse.

How is the revenue situation... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837210)

...for open source companies in general, still disaster?

Re:How is the revenue situation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837367)

Not at all! Thanks to the money my open source solutions provider is bringing in, I've almost got enough saved up for my very own can of gravy [campbellsoup.com] .

Where's your can of gravy, Bill [microsoft.com] ? LOL That's what I thought you Micro$oft loser! Open source rules, OK!

Re:How is the revenue situation... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837431)

Thats simply amazing, you own can of gravy! Open source sucess-story of the day!

Perl (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837224)

Perl is simply a fux0ring ugly so-called language.

Re:Perl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837234)

you are simply a fux0ring stupid so-called person.

Perl's had it's day - It's become like COBOL (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837270)

For instance there is now OO COBOL but the only people that use it are COBOL programmers who are stuck, perhaps because of their company's dictates, perhaps by choice, with COBOL. In the same way perl may be heading towards irrelevance wrt "mainstream" language. I've written commercial perl in the past, it was a pain then and it's still a pain now. The thing is that now there are alternative languages in the same space (python, ruby etc., php for web side) that do the "perl thing" better than perl.

Perl was great, it introduced many people to programming, just like COBOL did. But now it's time to move on. To move on to languages that learnt from perl, that improved on it, that don't have to drag around a syntax and culture that values neat tricks and trying to guess what the programmer really meant over providing the needed building blocks and letting you build code that does what you say, not what it thinks it heard you say. Or even, dare I say it, to move on to languages outside the perl family for some programming and choose the right tool for the job for a change.

I'd prefer to think of this as provocative rather than a flame, there is a difference you know.

Re:Perl's had it's day - It's become like COBOL (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837304)

I agree. Perl was a great learning experience, but other languages have taken it a step further, such as Ruby and Python, to name but a couple. Perl folks should step out and check out the current landscape. It is richer than they could imagine. It's there for the taking. Come on down!

Re:Perl's had it's day - It's become like COBOL (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837545)

I find it amazing how many clueless people like you pipe up with the demise or Perl, or its unsuitability for X task, or some other random demerit. Slashdot is useless for Perl news because 9/10ths of the posts are clueless idiots writing about how awful Perl is, whereas those of us who actually use perl (to whom the information is pertinent) have to wade through it.

Your article is nothing but vague hand-waving. I am a professional programmer, I want specifics if you want me to take you seriously.

Re:Perl's had it's day - It's become like COBOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837655)

Your article is nothing but vague hand-waving. I am a professional programmer, I want specifics if you want me to take you seriously.

There was: "I've written commercial perl in the past, it was a pain then and it's still a pain now. The thing is that now there are alternative languages in the same space (python, ruby etc., php for web side) that do the "perl thing" better than perl."

Good stuff (2, Interesting)

Starky (236203) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837290)

I've been reading the Apocalypses with interest as well as the comments from the peanut gallery.

For all of the hub bub and brouhahah, I think after it is released and people start to explore all the new (and old) features, folks are going to find Perl 6 an amazing tool that improves on an already amazing tool set.

With all of the flame wars regarding Perl/Python/Ruby (like triplets calling each other ugly), it's good to see Perl continuing to innovate, improve and set a brisk pace for others to follow.

C++ should be the only programming language (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837297)

Today's Software and IT industries are plagued by programming errors. While some of these errors are the result of illegal use of non-Microsoft software on rogue networks, the majority of problems stem from difficulties in mingling code of different programming languages.

Standarization on the best-of-breed programming language, C++, would undoubtedly reduce errors in software.

In this comment, I seek to dispel the myth that non-C++ languages are beneficial in proper Software Engineering. I outline how standardization on the C++ language can strengthen your corporation's bottom line. And I describe how to contact the men in Congress to have C++ use finally made legally mandatory.

C++, a programming language invented by Lucent's Bjarney Strupstrup in 1995, has been hailed as a God-send to Computer Science since its creation. Based on Richie Kerninghan's language "C+", C++ brought several previously-theoretical programming languages features to the mainstream:

Church-Rosser Compliance
Known as "multiple inheritance" in the programming world and as "being Church-Rosser" in academia, C++'s compliance to this IEEE standard immediately placed it head-and-shoulders above other languages. "Churrossity" allows programmers to use blocks of code, called "objects," in place of other blocks of code ("arrays".) The layman can think of this as "allowing 'new' code to 'run' old code." This advance has not been possible in previous logic-based languages such as Ada.

Multi-Byte Characters
C++ allowed use of "Beaster," a subset of Microsoft's COM ("Common Object Model") windowing layer. The Beaster system allows non-English-speakers such as the Welsh to use computing technology, as it could redirect the signals used to display non-English characters on a computer's monitor screen or laser printer. It is also useful in helping the blind, who speak a specialized subset of English called "ALS."

Pass-By-Text
A non-recursive pass-by-text mechanism existed in Kerninghan's C+, called "macro facility." But Strupstrup did Kerninghan one better with the "String Template Loader" variable passing mechanism, which allowed text to be passed to procedures at run-time. This sped up code execution times, as code could be compiled while the user was running the program. This eliminated speed loss caused by incompatibility from obselete computer chips (Motorola and ADM.)

The superiority of C++ over other languages should be obvious. But is switching to it from other languages possible in your corporation? Astute observers will note that the eco-terrorist group FSF produces a C++ compiler called "DJGPP." Under President Bush's War on Terror, any organization supporting a terrorist organization is recursively itself a terrorist organization.

Corporations needn't worry. Microsoft has its own C++ offering, "Visual Studio." As an added bonus, Microsoft Visual Studio is highly standards compliant. It features a visual programming interface, and several features not found elsewhere (such as a visual debugger and an AOL instant messanger client called "Windows Messaging".)

But these advantages can only be realized if code written in inferior languages can be kept from polluting the inter-web eco-space. When compilers for other languages are available, low-level managers are tempted to write code in them. Why? Often times, managers are brought up from the ranks of Software Engineers, and thus lack an Executive's sense for using the right tool for the job. When these managers write code in a jungled zoo of languages, code in one program is unable to interact with code from another program (churrossity.) Only by standardizing on C++ can all programs run together smoothly. Using C++ to eliminate software errors will jump-start the sagging technology industry. This will boost our economy as a whole, which in turn will help us to win the War on Terror.

The effort to legally mandate this has been going on for a while. But it needs your help. Even the smallest person, such as a reader of this site, can make a difference with his Congressman. Congressmen are kept highly versed in technical issues by lobbyists from Microsoft and Intel. But without strong grassroots input, the men of Congress and the Senate are powerless to heed the corporations' pleas.

Please, I urge you to visit the Congress [congress.com] and the White House [whitehouse.com] to help bring this important movement to its fruition.

Re:C++ should be the only programming language (0)

Ignorant Cocksucker (584160) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837326)

Stolen from adequacy.org [adequacy.org] . I have passed your details along to legal@adequacy.org.

Re:C++ should be the only programming language (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837386)

you passed his details? so is adequacy going to sue all ACs hoping they get the right one?

Re:C++ should be the only programming language (1)

Ignorant Cocksucker (584160) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837713)

No, most likely adequacy will sue slashdot, based on the 'follow the money' principle of legal action.

Rename it, it isn't Perl anymore (4, Insightful)

ToasterTester (95180) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837309)

Wall has changed the language too much and now more regex changes. Like Pascal when major updates became Modula or later Oberon. Original Pascal was left to evolve on it own. Same with Turbo Pascal when Borland heavily changed it they changed the name to Delphi. Call Perl 6 the new beast that it is.

Re:Rename it, it isn't Perl anymore (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837371)

It should be called Blah .. since that most explains what the code looks like.

Re:Rename it, it isn't Perl anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837442)

QA people have been trying for years to stop people from writing code like:
while (x = *(*jigs.foo->bar++? jogs.foo->bar*2 : jags.foo->bar)++[3])) ...
Nothing worked, until they invented Perl. Then all the guys who coded like the above
example switched from C to Perl.

Success!

Re:Rename it, it isn't Perl anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837478)

Nothing worked, until they invented Perl. Then all the guys who coded like the above
example switched from C to Perl.


Heh, nothing could be closer to the truth. I wrote horrible C code and I absolutely hated the strict syntax. I love Perl though since it's free flowing like my radical ideology. Hmph. :-)

Re:Rename it, it isn't Perl anymore (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837540)

Hey, whatever floats your boat! No problem.

Re:Rename it, it isn't Perl anymore (2, Informative)

m_ilya (311437) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837470)

It is still Perl. It is just better Perl :)

If in doubt go and read article ...And Now for Something Completely Similar [samag.com] by Damian Conway.

Re:Rename it, it isn't Perl anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837504)

Perl has broken backcompatibility with each new version number.

If we follow your advice, we will have to find a new name for Perl 5 as well; since, as it is not the same language as Perl 4 (references are a big difference, and there were some other non-back-compatible bits scattered here and there), it does not deserve to be called Perl?

Call me ignorant if you like... (0, Interesting)

Ignorant Cocksucker (584160) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837314)

But if Perl 6 is not backward compatible with perl 5, it should not really be called perl, should it ? And while we are on the subject, if Perl6 has all these features that python and tcl have had for years, why did Larry think it worth duplicating all that effort ? Why did he not simply e-mail Guido van Rossum and ask if he could contribute ?

It seems to me like egos are getting in the way of efficiency here. After all, why re-invent the wheel when we already have python ? Why break all those working perl scripts ?

Ego is the enemy of open source, and here we see why.

Re:Call me ignorant if you like... (2)

ZxCv (6138) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837656)

if Perl 6 is not backward compatible with perl 5

Uh, Perl 6 IS backwards-compatible with Perl 5--at least to the point that your Perl 5 scripts will compile under Perl 6.

I think its a ridiculous thing to say that Larry should have just contributed to Python or whatever instead of implementing the features in Perl itself. There are tons of things that can be done better, faster, or easier in Perl than in Python or Ruby, and ditching Perl just because someone else already came up with a particular feature is, IMHO, ludicrous.

propz to mjd (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837325)

long may you plover

Yeah..more RegEx fragmentation (5, Insightful)

Eol1 (208982) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837345)

#sarcasm# Yeah!!! Just what we need more RegEx fragmentation #/sarcasm#

Honestly, RegEx hasn't changed much since awk and when it did, Perl usually led the way. The changes though usually just added features or tweaks, my RegEx still basically looked the same though whether I used VIM, Python, ASP, C++, Perl, .

Shortly after reading the changes, I was aghast. Sure some of the changes make sense but some are going completely against RegEx as we know them now (getting rid of character classes for one []) . Sure you can use the p5 modifier or do the funky syntax to use [] but the issue is its a radical change.

This is a bad thing(tm). This is going to force all us RegEx people who currently using 4 or 5 different RegEx tools to not only learn minor differences based on each app, but we will be forcec to learn a COMPLETE DIFFERENT subset of RegEx syntax incompatible with anything else.

Now wait you say, Perl has always led the way and other tools seem to use perl compatable RegEx libraries. Not so with Perl6. Have floated this question out on a couple developer lists (PHP for one) and everybody is saying, Perl 6 RegEx support isn't going to happen. They are all happy with the current state of RegEx's. This is especially go to cause hell with PHP's perl_regex functions. PHP has stated they are not going to support Perl6 RegEx. Real perl_regex compatible then huh.

Some the Perl6 changes are pretty good for RegEx, but the complete drop of support for character clases just isn't a good thing (tm).

My 2cents (who is glad at least Larry added the P5 modifier)

Re:Yeah..more RegEx fragmentation (1)

Elian (10270) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837383)

Go reread the Apocalypse. Character classes aren't going away at all.

Re:Yeah..more RegEx fragmentation (1)

Eol1 (208982) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837448)

Clarification:

Never said they are going away. I said you now have to do some completely odd funky syntax to do character classes as we know them.

(well not really, because it soon starts looking completely unlike RegEx... [^a-b] compared to BUT character classes have alway as long as I have know been [] ... some syntax seems essential and such, should be unchanging .+*()[] and later {}? ... This modifiers seem to be the core basic syntax of all regex engines. What next, to much a single character we replace . with (not real code), or how about * with ... my point it [] is basic syntax, it doesnt' need changing.

Now here is my fun Perl6 question.

Before I could do [^[:alpha:][:num:].*] .... Perl 6 is what?

isn't correct since that is not ONE character class.

> maybe? (though it also doesnt' look right) ... this seems to me to look like [^[:alpha:]^[:num:]^.*] which is completely wrong (and doens't work)

more RegEx fragmentation (corrected with Extrans) (1)

Eol1 (208982) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837456)

Clarification:

Never said they are going away. I said you now have to do some completely odd funky syntax to do character classes as we know them.

<[a-z_]> <--sure its only the addition of <> (well not really, because it soon starts looking completely unlike RegEx... [^a-b] compared to <-[a-b]> BUT character classes have alway as long as I have know been [] ... some syntax seems essential and such, should be unchanging .+*()[] and later {}? ... This modifiers seem to be the core basic syntax of all regex engines. What next, to much a single character we replace . with <!.!> (not real code), or how about * with <%many_not_zero%> ... my point it [] is basic syntax, it doesnt' need changing.

Now here is my fun Perl6 question.

Before I could do [^[:alpha:][:num:].*] .... Perl 6 is what?

<-alpha><-num><-[.*]> isn't correct since that is not ONE character class.

<<-alpha><-num><-[.*]>> maybe? (though it also doesnt' look right) ... this seems to me to look like [^[:alpha:]^[:num:]^.*] which is completely wrong (and doens't work)

Re:Yeah..more RegEx fragmentation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837422)

last time i checked, perl 5.6 worked pretty well. no one is making you change.

Code-names (1, Funny)

Renraku (518261) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837355)

I guess the Christians are going to be waving banners over the naming of this one. Are they going to sue for false advertising when they realize this isn't the Apocalypse the Bible spoke of?

Re:Code-names (2)

kmellis (442405) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837385)

"I guess the Christians are going to be waving banners over the naming of this one. Are they going to sue for false advertising when they realize this isn't the Apocalypse the Bible spoke of?"
Wall is a very devout Christian. Visit his website.

Re:Code-names (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837493)

From [dictionary.com] :
apocalypse

n.
1.
a. Apocalypse Abbr. Apoc. Bible. The Book of Revelation. b. Any of a number of anonymous Jewish or Christian texts from around the second century B.C. to the second century A.D. containing prophetic or symbolic visions, especially of the imminent destruction of the world and the salvation of the righteous.

2. Great or total devastation; doom: the apocalypse of nuclear war.

3. A prophetic disclosure; a revelation.
This is not a code-name, it is a simple discription of what Wall's apocalypse documents are. See #3 above.

makes me glad I'm cutting back on Perl (5, Insightful)

g4dget (579145) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837364)

I used to write a lot of Perl scripts and libraries. But I've been cutting back and using other scripting languages instead. Perl6 looks like it would not be a pleasant transition from Perl5; I don't want to have to learn a new, idiosyncratic language every major release. If some of the features in Perl6 turn out to be useful (like the new regex syntax), they will make it as libraries into other languages.

I prefer command-line PHP to Perl these days (1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837395)

I used to be a big fan of Perl, but I've found that I can typically code any particular application much more quickly using PHP compiled for command-line operation.

Is it just me, or have other's found this? Also, the performance of command-line PHP is quite acceptable.

Damn (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837453)

I can't find the article about the terror CEO's of a DotCom; anyone got the link?

Perl Rocks (4, Interesting)

Tsugumi (553059) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837462)

There seem to be a lot of anti-perl flames, so until someone more intelligent, charismatic and pretty deigns to post, I may as well try to defend it...

First - the myths, untruths etc that have sprung up so far.

Perl6 is not backwards-compatible with Perl5 - uhm, yes it is. All your perl5 scripts will compile.

Why not contribute to phython or [insert other language here] well, python will compile through Parrot too, so who cares? If you like Python, write in Python. I prefer $%&? syntax to whitespace-as-syntax, but each to their own, but that is the joy of Parrot. Think .Net CLR without the so-far unfounded feeling that M$ are doing something underhand and nasty that you can't put your finger on. Before someone replies with "Why not just use the CLR instead of Parrot"? bear in mind this has been done to death already. It's in the FAQ, read first, flame later.

But why Perl? Okay, so it can be write-only. But this is only because of the flexibility, There Is More Than One Way To Do It. This includes obfuscated code, and plain unreadable alien transmissions. However - if you're writing code only you will ever see, then use the short-cuts. If you are writing code that needs to be maintained, then YOU the developer have the responsibility to ensure it is readable.

Heck, you could always use english; - but this is perl, you can also code in Latin, or, uhm, Klingon.

Perl is simply the most flexible language out there IMHO. If you're a sysadmin, you will have the Camel and the cookbook on your desk. Our entire environment is held together with Perl. Half the Internet is running on Perl. A dead language? Sheesh, Perl is dead, long live Perl.

If there is anything that does worry me about perl6, it is that it is becomiung too powerful, and too encompassing - it is important that the balance is maintained whereby it remains the Swiss Army Knife of languages, that it remains as easy for the casual Perl programmer to keep getting their job done with simple scripts as it is to create large projects.

Careful, Parrot != CLR (4, Interesting)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837516)

PArrot will juice performance boosts at the sacrifice of built-in safety. This is by design. Dan Sugalski claimed as much in a Perl Review article - to paraphrase - "Parrot will execute the bytes sent to it by the native language compiler. IF the compiler writes improper Parrot, your app will crash.".

He also goes on to note that the CLR could be a pluggable backend for Parrot to export to.

Comic book guy dislikes the new regex format... (1)

Cheetah86 (136854) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837463)

Worst...update...ever...

grammar/regex == class/method??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3837602)

Well, the grammar/regex isomorphic to class/method _is_ interesting - about the only other language where one could achieve that degree of cleverness and finish before the heat death of the universe is Common Lisp... At least in CL, it'd be readable. Lots of parentheses, but readable...

Pros and cons of the /x regex modifier (1)

amoe (550586) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837669)

I must admit to only just having gained a handle on some of the more esoteric features of Perl 5 regex. But I have a definite opinion on the use of the /x modifier on regex - contrary to (what seems like) popular belief, I find it makes regex harder to read, not easier.

Having to mentally scroll a line after each token impairs my parsing of the regex as a whole. It seems much easier to me to compare a sample of the input to the regex, and see how it looks. I realise it won't be mandatory to lay regexes out like this in Perl 6, but it worries me that this is seen as good programming practise. Don't even get me started on people who comment after every token...

Still, there's hope that the introduction of this modifer as the default will work against this mindset, rather than for it. Perhaps with its common usage will come enlightenment amongst the Perl posse. I also notice that Larry doesn't use the monstrously verbose regex form during his Apocalypse. So I'm not really sure whether this is a good or a bad thing - but I'm certain that people in the Perl community need to stop preaching that excessive commenting of regexes makes for maintainable code.

(This probably should have been posted in response to the original Apocalypse 5 thread. Tough titty. BTW, I thought Slashdot would wait for the Exegesis, and how come this is a few days late. Bah, humbug.)

Out of control (2)

Junks Jerzey (54586) | more than 12 years ago | (#3837695)

Perl has always had ugly points, but regular expressions were always concise and well-known. And now Wall's ramblings about how he wants to change regular expressions are longer than the entire section about them in the camel book. Doesn't this strike anyone else as ridiclous? Perhaps too many special cases and too many borrowed extensions are being thrown into the language. What an ugly mess it is becoming.

I'm not a big Python fan, but now I'm wondering why I shouldn't just switch to Python now and save myself the grief of having to switch to a completely new Perl-like language later.
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